So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People

This episode, Megan and Jennifer share an honest look at what business development really means and why it should start with people, not pressure.

Together, they unpack the realities of growing a book of business, navigating networking as introverts and extroverts, and rethinking the idea that there’s only one way to build relationships that lead to work. From big-law lessons to independent coaching insights, they share the approaches that actually work, and why “business development” is really just relationship development.

In this conversation, they cover:
  • Why the most successful business development starts with relationships, not revenue
  • How to build a strategy that feels authentic to you
  • Why “small talk” might just be curiosity in disguise
  • How to find motivation, spot your strengths, and do BD your own way
Ready to go deeper? Curious about 1:1 coaching with Megan or Jen? Or want the inside scoop on stage? Hit us up below, we’d love to chat!
Love So Much To Say? Let us know! Drop a review, give us 5 stars in your favorite podcast app, and tell us what made you laugh, think, or just go “yep, that’s me.” Every review helps us reach more awesome humans who want to make legal…well, human. 

Creators and Guests

Host
Jennifer Ramsey
Host
Megan Senese

What is So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People?

Welcome to So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People. Where we explore behind-the-scenes of work, life, and everything in between. We're your hosts - Jennifer Ramsey and Megan Senese, and we're here to showcase the human side of the legal world, from marketing and consulting to the very real struggles of balancing work with being human. This isn’t your typical, dry legal show. We're bringing you real stories, candid conversations, and smart insights that remind you that outside of being a lawyer or legal marketer - what makes you human? So whether you’re navigating billable hours or breaking glass ceilings in a woman-owned practice, this podcast is for you. Stay human. Stay inspired. Namaste (or whatever keeps you human). 

Megan Senese: [00:00:00] There are definitely days where I'm like, I don't know. I'm just like, helping lawyers make more money. Is that really purposeful? And just even having him give me a little therapy session being like, no, no, you're not helping lawyers make more money. You're helping lawyers reframe and giving them permission to be themselves.
Jennifer Ramsey: I tell the people who I coach be the last person they remember. And how do you do that? It's an email, it's a text, and it's remembering the little things. What might. Seemingly be something small. And I think that's a differentiator.
Megan Senese: Welcome to So Much To Say: A Legal Podcast For People, where we dive into the beautiful chaos of work life and everything in between.
Outside of being a lawyer or a legal marketer, we wanna know what makes you human. And with that, let's get started. So I thought today without a guest could be a little bit just free flow in terms of. Our approach, our magic and how we like to work with our [00:01:00] lawyers. And also what's changed since we, and we recorded just the two of us in January, or actually December of 2024, and we haven't had our own little episodes since then.
So how we've, how we've approached business development probably has changed even since December of 2024. Maybe it was even November when we did it. So that's sort of what I was thinking for today. And talking through just super actionable ways that any professional service person, I mean mostly are, we're assuming people are lawyers who are listening can develop relationships and what, what our favorite ways to do that are.
Because I think one of the things that is super interesting about this new life that we've been leading now for two and a half years is that we were business developers for. For big firms, big law before telling the lawyers in theory, right, this is how you do it. And then we would receive feedback from the lawyers when we were in-house on [00:02:00] what worked and what didn't work.
It was all anecdotal, all secondhand. And now in the last two and a half plus years, we get to take that anecdote and then try it out for ourselves. So we have to do the same thing of service delivery plus getting our own clients in the fucking door, right? Like we totally understand that balance. More so now than I would've ever done had we still been in-house.
And also you and I approach business development differently even though our, our approaches are very simpatico, if you will. So I'd like to know, Jen, what's your favorite way? What do you like, what do you like to do the most? For you personally to get clients in? I
Jennifer Ramsey: like
Megan Senese: in real life networking. Yes. I shouldn't say that. Yeah, don't, don't shit. Don't, don't shoot down the others.
Jennifer Ramsey: Uh, yeah. I, I, I prefer to go to events, whether large or small. It doesn't really phase [00:03:00] me. I like to connect with people in three dimensional form, so that's my preferred way. I also like to keep in touch with people that who maybe I haven't spoken with in a really long time, but they're part of my network and I like to touch base with them.
I like to send. We, we coach our, our own clients about this. I like to send them notes. I like to send them gifts. I like to send things to be top of mind. I hope that I'm the last person that they remember. Mm mm-hmm. In a business development context, right? Like I always tell my, I tell the people who I coach, be the last person they remember and how do you do that?
It's all these little things that add up. It's an email, it's a text, it's a. An invite. It's [00:04:00] whatever you popped into my head and I wanted to say hi. And it's remembering the little things. I like to remember the little things about people because I like to ask them about what might seemingly be something small, but I remember it and I think that's a differentiator.
Megan Senese: So when you're going, 'cause I don't really like the big networking and so we, we talk about this a lot. I'm really, I think I'm pretty outgoing, but I hate the big, like, networking things where, to me it feels fake. Right? Whereas I know online feels fake for you. And I, I, I think that's, I think that's accurate.
I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but talk to us about when you're getting ready for like a big networking thing. So you and I right now are in prep mode for, we're doing a net, we're gonna be doing a conference, we're gonna be doing facilitating. And I think a question that comes up. A lot in individual sessions with our lawyers is like, I'm going to present and I'm going to go there, and then I'm gonna run back to my room [00:05:00] and I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna talk to anybody.
I have work to do. So how do you prepare yourself when you're going to those like big networking things?
Jennifer Ramsey: Uh, there was a time in my life where I had a position, I was the executive director of a nonprofit organization, and it was a, it was a business. Networking organization here in San Diego, and by virtue of being the executive director, I had to go to business events around San Diego.
I had to be the face of my own organization. At the time it was San Diego MIT Enterprise Forum, and so I got really plugged in to the San Diego business community. Because I had to, and I just kept showing up. So while networking at events was not the very first time I went [00:06:00] to events, I was freaked out, mortified.
And I left after like 15 minutes. But I had to do it. It it really was part of my job. Um, and so it is a muscle that has to be flexed over and over again and. A lot of people don't have to network like I actually really did. It was part of my, it really was part of my roles and responsibilities. The board expected me, my board of directors expected me to be out there.
So I had to get comfortable with it. So now it's almost like second nature. I just don't even think about it. I just go and I walk straight up to someone. I'm like, hi, I'm Jennifer Ramey. Nice to meet you. I can small talk. A lot of people don't like small talking. Networking is not great for people who don't like small talk, so if you don't like small talk, probably there's something else out there for you.
Megan Senese: Then networking, I think it's reframing what networking is, right? Because you can network. [00:07:00] Anywhere. Right. It doesn't always have to just be at a big, at a big conference.
Jennifer Ramsey: Exactly. It could be at your kid's soccer game, could be at your kid's soccer game. Uh, have you ever networked at your kid's soccer games?
Megan Senese: Not yet, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I have a target in mind and
Jennifer Ramsey: Oh, interesting.
Megan Senese: You know, I think there's a time and place. Right. You're not going to. Yeah. And I think that's the part of where we come in as business developers, and that's where our clients and our lawyers, or anybody who's looking to expand their business, you have to, yeah.
Know the right time and place, right? If your kid is. On the soccer field, soccer, and you're cheering for them. You're not gonna turn to them and be like, excuse me, right? Do you, do you need help with growing your revenue? I mean, that's not really the best place for it unless you start talking about like, oh my gosh, this week was so crazy.
I was so busy. To me, then that's the opportunity to say like, oh, like busy with what? Doing what? And then you can start to talk about it. But I do think there has to be like the right opportunity to, to talk [00:08:00] about that. Right? There's a pla there's a time and place for that. I mean, I, to be honest, like I am thinking about, so we have our workshop coming up and I'm thinking about what are we gonna do after.
You're probably gonna wanna network and I'm not gonna wanna network and
Jennifer Ramsey: so I'm gonna drag you along with me. Right?
Megan Senese: And so I'm thinking about that, right? And so how I would, how I'm thinking about preparing is the same things that I need to tell that I tell our lawyers, right? Which is I'm going to post about it on LinkedIn and then maybe we can pre connect with people so that you kind of have that like anchor or that safety person too.
To come back to. I mean, the other thing is, what I'm hopeful is that, uh, maybe I'll think of what I write on LinkedIn is like, if you don't like networking and you're going at this event, then you can come and find me, right. As a, like, as a safe place. And that has wor wing woman as a wing woman. Yes. I know you love that.
And look, you've got me as yours. Totally. Totally. But I also don't wanna be like overly reliant. Right. And I hate, I think that's the thing. No, I hate the small talk because it [00:09:00] doesn't feel. Genuine to me. Yeah. I wanna get right into your trauma. Right? Like let's, and that's like a conversation for a different day, right? No, I mean, I want it to be deep and meaningful.
Jennifer Ramsey: And that doesn't mean small talk can't be Yeah. That's, that is how, what, how else are you supposed, okay. This talk about relationship development, right? Right. How else are you supposed to get to know people and develop a relationship if there aren't those easy questions at the beginning where you're just starting to get to know them?
Where do you work? Or you know, oh, do you live around here? I'm trying to think of some of the questions that I ask. Just off the cuff. A lot of times it's not really like, where do you work? It's like, tell me about what your company does. And then the conversation, it's just a little bit of an opener from which to open, wedge the conversation a little bit more, and then good stuff can start to flow.
[00:10:00] So it is a good skill, I think that. Lawyers and professional service people should, again, try to flex the muscle of being able to ask people questions and if maybe, uh, maybe we are mislabeling that and calling it small talk when it's actually being curious. Yes,
Megan Senese: you're right. We, we do have a document that's called.
The Curious Lawyer, and it's a whole list of questions essentially to, to get you started. And I think once you look at it, you're like, oh yeah, like obviously like I do this and sometimes I think just reframing that. And so we're happy to send that along to people who, who might want it to just reach out to us.
Jennifer Ramsey: Yeah, it's not small talk. I like, I'm, I think that this is an, an aha epiphany moment. Let's not call it that because I think it, I think small talk, just like the word sales, makes people uncomfortable.
Megan Senese: I like that a lot because for me I'm always like, well, I don't want small talk. Like I want real, I wanna connect, I want, I wanna really get to [00:11:00] know people and I want them to get to know me too, right?
Like it definitely needs to be about them in this sales instance. But I also think, I think that's what's off-putting, sometimes you walk, I mean, I, you know, I have said this nightmare where you walk into a room and everyone's in their like tight little circles and that's off-putting for people who are nervous to network in the first place.
There is a phrase or a sentence or a question rather, that I have picked up from this other expert communicator, basically is go up to these people who are in circles and say, hi, I am Megan Sice. I'm by myself. May I join your group? Yes. And the chances of people saying no are pretty slim. And if they are, I'm like, fuck those people.
Then go to the next group. Right?
Jennifer Ramsey: Like, yeah. On the flip side of that, I know we're talking about in-person networking a lot. But I, um, at one of our workshops in the past, we, I did a, a networking session and on the flip side of that, people [00:12:00] who, okay, listen, people who love to go to networking, if you are in a circle, make an opening for someone.
Look around, be observant. And if you see someone who is by themselves, say, I do this a lot, because I do like to network. And so I notice when someone looks. Awkward or mortified or it's like, Hey, with, hey, come join us. My name is Jen. What's your name? Right. I bring 'em into the fold so people who are good networkers think about doing that because it just helps people.
It, it really does
Megan Senese: well, and there also is so much like we're talking now. We're also getting into like, how are you physically standing? Which right though there is, um, Vanessa Van Edwards is a body language communication QS expert Q-C-U-E-S QS expert, and talked a lot about like those tight circles or people's nightmares because there's literally like, you have to be very aggressive and push your white in.
And so if you are someone who [00:13:00] likes to network, then in that instance, you would like your body to be open to the room, right? And so have your feet not be pointing. Into this tiny circle, have them pointed out into the room. Right, right, right, right. And that's more welcoming to people and people will gravitate towards you.
I do have to say, you know, as much as I like to shit on like big conferences and how much I hated it, the last time I went to a marketing association conference, which was now almost a year ago, I had a speaking role. So I felt very like, okay, I have a, a task. I know exactly why I am here. I'm going to do this panel, and if everything else goes to shit, at least I know that I did my speaking.
And this time, because I had been posting consistently on LinkedIn, which I know we talk a lot about, it's gonna sound like a cocky brag. People were stopping me to say Megan, Megan Sinese from LinkedIn. And that became a piece where people were able to, if they were by themselves, we were able to connect.
They knew more about me. [00:14:00] So in that instance, they had a couple of questions to ask me, which also felt amazing, but also allowed me to ask them a lot more questions because they already kind of knew stuff about me. So it was a lot more comfortable for me to be like, well, you know where I work and you know what I'm about, so like, let me ask you questions.
And they were like, okay. Right. And so it was a lot easier. In that context to walk into something because people had recognized me. Now that's a subset. This is not gonna happen when we go to Boston. Right? And just putting, putting the content out is another way that I love to network because I meet so many people
Jennifer Ramsey: and well, this goes to what we've been talking about lately.
Reframing business development to be relationship development and not one size does not fit all. And it's think our. Yours and my approach or thinking, whatever the word is to coaching lawyers, is [00:15:00] not to put a label on them as to what they, what they are, who they are. It is more what you, what do you like to do, what do you feel comfortable doing?
And then let's pull on that thread and that theme and identify what activities, don't feel like activities to you. Like do they actually just feel normal extension of how you show up in the world? And it could look so different for so many different people. And just to pick up on your LinkedIn point, so I am not, I'm not the biggest user.
Of LinkedIn and I really don't love it, but I have found that I like to comment.
Megan Senese: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Ramsey: That's what I really like to do on LinkedIn, so that's what I do. Right. And that like, it took me a while. It took me until, like, just recently to figure that out. And that's an, uh, it's [00:16:00] a way for me to connect, to build a relationship with someone.
And I'm comfortable with it. And I'm also comfortable going to a networking event where there's a thousand people, right? Like, so that's me, right? So I have to figure that out. And then I, once I figure that out, the path becomes so much clearer on what do I need to do to do my own relationship building and relationship development.
Megan Senese: Right? Because you and I both, we the umbrella. How we approach business development is exactly the same. It's, we both are deeply, deeply belief that it should be relationships first, human first. It's the how, how do you do that? And I think one of the areas, and I mean a lot of business development consultants and coaches perhaps say the same thing and that's fine.
But I think the thing that makes us different is that we're are giving you permission to do whatever. See, this is where all, but do whatever the fuck you wanna do. Right. Do it however. Yeah. You're actually going to, I think you said this earlier, do it [00:17:00] because you, if you are billing in six minute intervals and now you have to stop and go do something that you hate, no one, it's not very enjoyable.
And like what kind of vibes are you putting out if you hate being wherever you are?
Jennifer Ramsey: Yeah.
Megan Senese: I think that's something that we have kind of lost sight of like, oh. My dumb marketing team is like making me write and I hate writing, and now they're making me do a podcast and I hate speaking to people or get up on stage, and I hate doing that.
Right? And
Jennifer Ramsey: yeah,
Megan Senese: I think it's so much more enjoyable if you can find a way that works for you. And it doesn't have to be all encompassing. It can be these tiny, little, tiny, little increments. One tiny business development move every single day that turns into the magic,
Jennifer Ramsey: magic. Relationship development magic.
I wish we could cue, um, Bruno Mars 24 Carrot Magics in the, I don't know if we have the, like, license for that [00:18:00] shoot. Okay. You know, another, uh, thing that I have recently discovered Yes. About not, so I have to find my own motivations for relationship development. I, I, you know, what, what motivates me? What lights me up?
What's inspires me? And like I said, I kind of like commenting on LinkedIn. I, I found out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, which by
Megan Senese: the way, I will say from. Whatever the LinkedIn algorithm is doing right now, and, and who knows, this is, this probably won't come out until November, but whatever LinkedIn algorithm is doing, comments are being rewarded.
So some people are getting huge impressions on comments. One of the things that LinkedIn has done most recently is give you. On your comment.
Jennifer Ramsey: I, yes, I did notice that. 'cause they want
Megan Senese: you to comment more, right? Again, like LinkedIn is a social media platform. They want you to stay on, they want you to be engaged.
They never want you to go, they want you to be addicted. [00:19:00] I definitely have a form of LinkedIn addiction for sure, which we can talk about at a completely different conversation. But that is a strategy. Commenting and following people, following people who are your target audience, who you want to stay top of mind, who you want to see what they're doing.
That is part of a networking and business development strategy that you can do with like kind of little, if you will, effort. Also, sending people one-to-one notes on LinkedIn is amazing, right? Because you don't have to know their email, right? You can see everything that they're doing. They're sharing it with you.
So there's so many, there's so many different ways. I just wanted to jump in and, and just like comment on that. That your commenting strategy is an actual strategy. Right? It's not like a throwaway, it's not a less than like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm not really engaging on LinkedIn 'cause I'm not posting. That's not true.
The comments are, are very valuable as well. You're getting visibility that way also. Oh, well. Yay.
Jennifer Ramsey: And, and so that's, that's [00:20:00] something that is good for me to know about my own relationship development. And I found that recently. This is why I keep saying one size doesn't fit all. When I'm working one-on-one with lawyers, I'm starting to pick up what motivates them.
And I'm some, I sometimes am not sure they even realize it. It's just, it's the conversation. We have a conversation and their, their eyes will light up over something or they'll get excited about something and then I'm like, oh, this is it. This is the business development. Tactic or strategy or whatever that they are gravitating towards.
So let's continue to, again, pull on that thread. And so that's been fun for me to figure out, like, I pay, I'm paying a little bit more attention when, when I speak with my, with the people who I work with, the coachee, the lawyers is what, where does their [00:21:00] energy level seem to rise? A little bit. Mm-hmm.
Megan Senese: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Ramsey: And, and that, that tells a lot. That says a lot. And then we can really dive in, focus on, well, that's what we're gonna do for a little bit of time. So anyway, it's just, it's understanding motivation and what makes people tick.
Megan Senese: I love that. And I still think that one of the things that we, the benefit of not being in-house is also to say this, this is.
Probably the antithesis of everything that a law firm would say, but sometimes I have, depending on where they are, the lawyers are in their journey. If you are a brand new partner that has to get in business, sometimes you're paid more for bringing in brand new work. Other times is incentive very little to collaborate on existing work.
And so the reason that I ask. That question is like, well, where are you incentivized? And sometimes my lawyers will say, I just need to bring in revenue. Like right now, I just need to bring in money like right now. And so if that's the case, then we start having a conversation. [00:22:00] We were talking about motivation, like, well, what does money look like to you?
Right? Is it revenue from existing clients or is it brand new? And if they're telling me, well, I'm really only getting measured on brand new, then I'm like, I'm sorry, firm. We're not gonna do any internal networking. We're only gonna do external stuff. And our entire focus for the rest of our sessions together are building their visibility and then thinking about ways to have them connect big and small.
With people who are new because that their motivation is I need to bring in money. And so then, you know, if I was in-house where our entire focus for my entire career had been cross-selling, I would've never said Don't try to grow the firm's existing client base. Right. And there's, there's a time and place for that.
I have other, other clients who are much more established, more, uh, senior partners and they're like, I really need to make sure that I'm feeding people appropriately and I really wanna expand our institutional clients. Yeah, and that mix is completely different. Like we need to make sure you're networking [00:23:00] internally inside the firm.
How are you developing your relationships? Do people know your specialty? And then of course there's the external piece, but the motivation, right? What do you need right now? I'm a brand new equity partner. I need to bring in freaking money.
Jennifer Ramsey: Right, right, right. And everyone is. Each of our people, each of our lawyers are unique special unicorns.
Yes, they are. They, they are all so different. Yeah. And, and that is why it is really hard to put people in a box. And I think that's what has been the most interesting and exciting part of the one-on-one work because really get to understand and get to know someone and what makes them tick. And it's interesting.
I'm sure you could say the same like sometimes. The business development, relationship development morphs into more like life coaching and therapy, cheerleading. Yeah. All of that stuff. And it's feels good to make people feel good.
Megan Senese: There's a mindset reshift, and so I was having a conversation with [00:24:00] Jar Green and we had been LinkedIn friends for a long time.
He is a, he has a, like a wellness company that he goes in and talks about wellbeing and wellness and you would really like him and yes, I'm gonna shout him out and we'll tag him in all the things when we started talking about. What stage does and how we coach our, our lawyers and like we do fractional services as well, but the, how we do, how we coach our lawyers.
He was like, you're, you are basically giving people permission to rethink and reframe how they're thinking about business development, how they're thinking about money, how they're thinking about themselves. And I was, it was so, like he said it much more, you know, beautiful than, than that. But I thought it was really helpful.
Because a lot of what, there are definitely days where I'm like, I don't know. I'm just like having, helping lawyers make more money. Is that really like, is that really purposeful? And then when I was explaining everything that we do and we talk to them about its [00:25:00] relationships and you can get out of your own way and you can do it your way and you don't like to golf, that's fine.
Right? You don't like to go on LinkedIn, that's fine. Like let's talk about ways that. Light you up, up and give you purpose and go after the clients you like. So you're not living this like miserable life that you worked so hard to get to and now you're here and it sucks, right? And just even having him give me a little therapy session being like, no, no, you're not helping lawyers make more money.
You're helping lawyers reframe how they think about money, reframe how they think about business development and giving them permission to be themselves.
Jennifer Ramsey: Oh, I love that.
Megan Senese: And I think that's really, that's so
Jennifer Ramsey: good.
Megan Senese: That's really what we're trying to,
Jennifer Ramsey: and that's really fulfill and that's
Megan Senese: purposeful and that's, that's purposeful and that's why it feels so much different than, you know, can you do this RFP in a subject line?
Which, you know, is my, the bane of my
Jennifer Ramsey: Yeah. Existence. I love RFPs. I do. Melanie, strike them. Just kidding. This,
Megan Senese: this is where I'm like, you're [00:26:00] so weird. Um, and then, so, okay. One of the things that I have loved, one of the things that I love to do where, particularly for our women lawyers, I've gotten people together virtually.
And this is, again, I love this virtually because I can get people from, from, from somewhere in California and east coast, right? Everybody gets together and, and everywhere in between and in the Midwest, whatever that in the middle states. I don't know what those are and talk about what they want with specificity.
And one of the things that I love to do, particularly with our women lawyers, is to be really specific with their ask. And some of our women lawyers are badass and they don't need help. That's fine. The majority of people who wind up finding their way to, to us maybe need a little more help. And so when you finally get that opportunity to say like, I'd love to help you, I'd love to support you, sometimes our lawyers will be like, oh, well I just [00:27:00] want more work.
Or I just am looking for. Support or Right. And so one of the things that we've done in some of our networking sessions and that we're also going to be wa walking through people with our workshop is to be super specific. Right? And so if you get that opportunity, take it. But also when we've been doing our virtual networking sessions, I have been straight up saying, I don't want you to say like, oh, I just is like really nice meeting you.
There's a time for that. In this instance, when you're with Megan and Jen, we want you to say, I. Want to be introduced to companies that are looking to acquire whatever. Like I want to be able to bring in a million dollars next year for litigation fees, like really specific, be straight up and ask for it.
And it's been really fun to be able to broker those connections. 'cause people one half the group will be like, this is what I want. Yeah, everyone goes around and says that and then, then, then we've been able to connect people together. So I, I was [00:28:00] just thinking about like, how do you work with your lawyers also, to be more specific with what they're asking for, like what are some of the guidance that you're giving to them?
Jennifer Ramsey: I really like using the ideal client profile framework to get. Lawyers thinking about exactly what it says, what exactly what it, like their ideal client and getting specific about it. So, you know, I am looking to work with. Lower to middle market companies in the technology sector based in Texas, whatever.
I really identify like thinking of clients they already have who are amazing clients. And so then let's talk about those parameters because that is an ideal client profile and that's really specific. You can get really specific if you already know who it is, and then applying that to bringing in new clients and.
Where do you want? Like what types of new clients do you want? So building out those ideal client [00:29:00] profiles is something that I think sets lawyers up for success when it comes to relationship and business development.
Megan Senese: Well, and then you can group them together too, right? You can start to see similarities, right?
If you're saying, okay, here I've got a bunch of general councils who are all in banking,
Jennifer Ramsey: right?
Megan Senese: You might be able to then start to see trends across. All of those. And then this is where we get, so that's the big piece, right? That's the big,
Jennifer Ramsey: yeah,
Megan Senese: the big view. Who's your ideal client base? Right. Or your ideal client profile.
Sometimes that's hard to wrap your hands around or your head around it's,
Jennifer Ramsey: but we like to use Mad Libs, right? Like Mad Libs can really help with that. And, um. It is a drill down. It is a drill, drill, drill, drill down because it is, people wanna start really broad. It's like, no, let's just keep peeling the onion and getting a little bit more granular about what, what does this client really look like?
Like what, what, what are their revenues? What revenue do they bring in for you? What industry are they in? What sub industry? In [00:30:00] what sub sub industry are they in? All those types of questions. In a fun little mad libs exercise. Can help lawyers identify who to go after if they're looking to go after brand new prospects?
Right. I mean, if they have existing client. Yeah.
Megan Senese: So yeah, on the new side, I mean they, I think then once you have that list, that's when you get to do all those like smaller baby things that we keep talking about, those little micro things of keeping them top of mind, inviting them to things. That's when you get to do the execution side.
I also think there's something to be said about being yourself, right? I love the story of, I had this. Lawyer who said, I hired you 'cause you were funny. Which I love and like to tell liked, right? Like to tell my husband that he, because he's like, you're not that funny. You know that, right? Um, I'm like, I'm hilarious.
As we're wrapping up business development magic, if you had a magic wand and you were going to tell people that, like, okay, you can do what? Like. [00:31:00] Magic wand to finish out their year, and you were going to wave it around on them, like what would be the one thing that they should do to close out their year?
Jennifer Ramsey: Thank people.
Megan Senese: Ooh,
Jennifer Ramsey: I like that. It's a good time, right? It's gratitude season. So just thank people for the year and for being in their lives and in their orbits and for the support and, and since this podcast is coming out in mid-November, whenever we thank all of you for listening to us all year long.
Like just thank you.
Megan Senese: Yeah. I love that. It also makes us, me think of Stephanie Harrison's just help people. Yep. Business development is also just about helping. How can you be helpful? So. I like that help and thank Namaste.
Jennifer Ramsey: Namaste, y'all.
Megan Senese: This episode was brought to you by stage. That's us, a woman-owned business development and marketing boutique [00:32:00] focused on relationships, revenue, and growth for individual lawyers, legal marketers, and law firms.
In addition to wanting to know what makes you human, we also wanna know. What podcast guests do you want us to have on? What topics are top of mind for you? Let us know. Email us at info@stage.guide.