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What are executive functions, and how can teachers support them without adding another program to the school day? Mitch Weathers returns to Better Teaching to discuss the cognitive skills behind organization, task initiation, self-regulation, planning, and follow-through.
Mitch explains why clarity, modeling, predictable routines, and a well-designed classroom environment protect students' cognitive capacity. He also makes the case for analog tools in a digital world and shares how the Organized Binder approach helps students—and teachers—build practical organizational habits.
Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works is hosted by Gene Tavernetti. Find more about Gene's work at tesscg.com.
Descriptions of effective teaching often depict an idealized form of "perfect" instruction. Yet, pursuing perfection in teaching, which depends on children's behavior, is ultimately futile. To be effective, lessons and educators need to operate with about 75% efficiency. The remaining 25% can be impactful, but expecting it in every lesson, every day, is unrealistic. Perfection in teaching may be unattainable, but progress is not. Whether you are aiming for the 75% effectiveness mark or striving for continuous improvement, this podcast will guide you in that endeavor.
Speaker: Welcome to Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom. This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network, shows that help you go beyond education. Find all our shows at bepodcastnetwork.com.
I am Gene Tavernetti, the host for this podcast, and my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once, and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching. A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords, only stuff that works. Hello, everyone. It's just me again today, and-
Speaker 2: My guest today is Mitch Weathers. Mitch is the author of Executive Functions for Every Classroom: Creating Safe and Predictable Learning Environments for Grades 3 through 12, and he is also the co-author of Executive Functions for Every K-3 Classroom: Promoting Self-Regulation for a Strong Start. And guess what we're talking about today?
We are talking about executive functions. Mitch is an educator, author, nationally and internationally recognized voice on executive functions in the classroom. Mitch is best known for translating brain science into practical strategies that hold up in real classrooms. His work focuses on helping students strengthen skills as organization, task initiation, self-regulation, and follow through without adding to teachers' plates.
Through his writing, speaking, and consulting, Mitch challenges us to rethink why students struggle and how intentional systems and structures can unlock their potential. Mitch's ideas give educators with a shared language concrete tools and a renewed lens for supporting our students. Again, this is the second visit for Mitch.
His first time was with his co-author, Dr. Sarah Oberle, but it's all Mitch and me today. I think you're gonna like this one
Speaker 3: Mitch, good to see you again. Thanks for being on Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works. Thanks, Gene. Glad to be here. Good to see you as g- as well again.
Yeah. So it
Speaker 4: was just a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 3: It was just a couple weeks ago, and you, you're a returning champion. You've been on before with, Yeah ... when you were talking about with your co-author, Sarah Oberly, and, and now it's just you.
And so I'm excited to have a chance to talk to you about, a little bit about the, the two books you have written, about executive functions, but also more focusing on the, the grades 3 through 12 issue.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: But, but before we get into that, just, just as a reminder for, for our listeners that, that you've written two books on executive functions, and one covers K-3, and then your first book, covered grades 3 through 12.
Mm-hmm. And so two, two questions for you. So basically, first let's start, what are executive functions, and then what did you find in the research the difference between the K-3 and the, the 3-12?
Speaker 4: Yeah. Good questions. Good starting place too. kind of basic definition, executive functions are cognitive processes that are happening in the prefrontal cortex for the most part of our, our, our frontal lobe, which is the part of your brain that's right behind your forehead.
It's also the part of the brain that you've heard say this, our brains aren't fully developed until our mid to late 20s or even later. that's that region of the brain. what I've always been interested in is a, is a kind of historic-- Historically, I've spent most of my career as a classroom teacher, ninth grade science teacher, and I was always interested in the research and in cognitive science and neuroscience, but I was always, like, really interested in what's it mean in the classroom tomorrow for me or for anybody.
And so when you kind of expand the definition of these cognitive processes that control goal-oriented behaviors, and you could put that in, in, in a variety of contexts, but in a, teaching learning, it doesn't have to be a traditional classroom. So when I say that, just keep that in mind. But in a classroom, it's the, the stuff of doing school.
Like, do I-- can I, stay on task? Can I stay focused? Can I inhibit? Can I learn to get and stay organized? Can I eventually learn to manage my time and help me better accomplish goals I've set? So all of the things that we hope students will be able to do that kinda historically, if you look at the, the documentation or even just personal experience, we've really kinda just left them up to chance.
They're, they're rarely, like, explicitly taught or modeled. so the basic definition and w- and diving into the books was interesting. So my first book you had mentioned, and, and this is a US context in terms of grade levels, but grade level three through 12, that was my best effort to translate the research and the strategies embedded in a program that I designed in my classroom that had no intention of sharing and now is being used all around the country and internationally, and we can talk a little bit about that if you want.
but because it's a program, and what I mean by that is there's student materials and there's training and there's support and this, you know, this whole contractual thing with schools and districts and counties. I've always, kind of been morally opposed to, quote unquote, "selling" that to an individual teacher or an individual parent.
but I, as you can imagine, get contacted with some frequency from individual teachers saying, "Oh my gosh- Executive dysfunction is everywhere in my classroom and, and I struggle with it, and help. I wanna bring this to my classroom. And, and I say, "No, we're not gonna sell you this." But I really wanted to, to do my best to distill that down into a book that anybody could pick up for 30 bucks or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: and, and that, you asked, like, what I learned in the, the process of writing the two books. It was pretty deliberate. The research is, is very clear in how executive functions are defined, and there's two categories or domains, Gene. There's what's referred to as the core executive functions, which are kinda the first to come on board in our brains, and this is just biology.
This isn't a school thing or a student thing. So you have your core executive functions which, you know, birth and, and on up into early elementary, those are, are what, are emerging in the brain. And then somewhere around that middle elementary, which is why you'll notice that grade three is in both titles of the books, and it's not a...
You can't, like, put a pin in it and be like, "This is exactly when the higher orders come on board. It's grade three." There's tons of variability. But generally speaking, that middle elementary, time, the higher order executive functions start to come on board, and then those are emerging or developing into our, our 20s or even later.
So teasing those two out was really important because the, the, it is the biology of it, right? This emerging of these executive functions, but it's really about the environments and the contexts are so different. So what's happening in grades 3 through 12, they're just a different space than what's happening in the primary.
and oftentimes we lump K12 or even pre-K12 together, and depending on the topic or what we're talking about, much of it may not be relevant, you know, across that many grade bands. And so when we look at executive functions, it's really important to have grade level and age-appropriate expectation and understanding around them.
Because if I'm working with five or six-year-olds and I'm trying to do something that's more of a higher order executive functioning- Mm ... support, it may not be a, an appropriate fit.
Speaker 3: So what would, what would be those core executive functions that, that, the younger kids would be-
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the- ... they would be looking at?
I, I refer to it, yeah, the blue book and the white book. Yeah. So the blue book is K through three. And I wrote that with our mutual and brilliant friend, Dr. Sarah Oberly, who spent her career as a first grade teacher. Yeah. And, and like you, I've- we go way back. And so when I- embarked on book two, I was, I knew, I'm like, "I knew who, who I need to write this with."
So there's three. There's, working memory, inhibition, and cognitive flexibility, sometimes referred to as shifting. And then when you shift up to the higher order executive functions, we're talking about planning, reasoning, problem-solving, that kind of genre of executive functions. But I, I mentioned both of those, and I'm glad you asked about the core because you know as well as I do, I mean, every session at the re- ResearchEd event we were just lucky enough to both present at a couple weeks ago in St.
Louis, everybody's talking about working memory. So although it is a core executive function, it's, because it's such an engine for, for learning, it's, it's relevant to both. And so what Sarah and I have found with the, the blue book, the, the K through 3, and, and I'm not, I wouldn't say surprisingly so, but the amount of feedback from secondary, from parents and even higher ed college professors who picked it up and read it, they're like, "Oh, this is entirely relevant to my practice as well."
So there's- Mm-hmm ... there's interplay between both, so. Right.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it, what, what's interesting, again, and, and in talking to our mutual friend Sarah, it took me forever, and I'm still not clear. Every time I talk to you or Sarah about executive functions, I think I become less clear in the beginning of the conversation.
Because we talk about that there, it's a biological progression, and we talk about, you know, part of the brain that is developing. and so does it, is it something that would develop- If we were talking outside of the realm of school, is it something that becomes important because we're trying to teach the kids?
What did you- I think a term, what you called student-ness? Yeah. We're trying to teach student-ness, how to, how to behave. Mm-hmm. So, so I don't even know if, if, I know I have a question in there somewhere for you. Is it- ... is it just the student-ness? and so I, I, I know we're trying to, create an environment that is, amenable to this development of the executive functions.
I think- Mm-hmm ... Je- tell me if I'm, if I'm right that, that we don't teach executive functions. It is something that those core functions, that we create an environment,
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ...
Speaker 3: for them. Am I saying that, am I saying that right?
Speaker 4: You are. It's one way to, to think about it. certainly with the core executive functions in those younger years, we're trying to create conditions that support their natural development.
In the same way that, you know, as a parent you're c- you're creating condition, c- conditions for the natural development of your child. you can't, there's nothing you can do to make your child grow faster, right? That- Right ... but I could create conditions like, "Hey, I wanna make sure you have a healthy diet, and enough sleep and exercise," and all the things that are, are good for, supporting the development of, you know, just our, our, physical development.
But when we look at in the, in the classroom context in that teaching and learning, it's the same approach. Where I kinda see it is, protecting the space. So if we look at working memory, which, you know, is some refer to as our, our mental spotlight. It's the thing we're, we're focused on, our mental sketch pad.
It's this active part in our brain that, is really important if we're going to eventually retain something, move it to our long-term memory. And we don't need to necessarily go into all of that right now. But the important thing about working memory is it has a capacity, it's finite. So when we talk about, when I say like protecting that space, if I'm having to use my mental flashlight or spotlight for anything other than focusing on the things I'm trying to learn or accomplish, there's just less available, right?
So when you look at the two other core executive functions, inhibition and cognitive flexibility. Well, inhibition is my ability to inhibit whatever might be going on with me and stay focused on the task at hand, but also filter out things from my external environment. Let's say the, the visual environment, the acoustic environment, the physical space to stay focused on.
So inhibition, if I'm having to spend a lot of my like mental bandwidth, AKA working memory, just trying to filter out all of this because I'm in a really noisy classroom, let's say I just have less available to focus on what I'm doing. So creating those conditions to protect that bandwidth is really the, the point with those core executive functions, where I'm not necessarily gonna sit down and give you a lesson on
I mean, I could introduce you to what inhibition is-
Speaker 3: Yeah ...
Speaker 4: but I'm not gonna teach you necessarily- Okay ... how to do it. But I can create conditions to make it more likely for you to be able to stay focused on the task at hand. and, and that's intentionally thinking about, for example, my environment, my instruction, my routines.
So it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's not explicitly ... What I like to say in the white paper is that executive functions are taught, they're best learned, in kind of parentheses, when students clearly see the model and they get practice with them over time. So,
Speaker 3: So a couple questions- Yeah ... a couple, couple questions for you based on that.
the first has to do with, That you have these, you know, core executive functions that are earlier in age.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: but those are continue to be important throughout, throughout school. And so having, having said that, as you described it, creating these conditions, cr- critical to support the executive functions, developing executive functions, is that what, many teachers just call classroom management?
Mm. Or is there something, is there something different?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I would love it if, if all of us approached the idea of classroom management through an executive functioning lens. And I think if you were to, you know, visit a, you know, another planet and you're-- you have no idea what's going on and you're looking at it and you're like, "Oh, this is classroom management."
In, in a classroom that is designed and curated with executive functioning in mind is inherently going to have less classlum- classroom management issues. So it might present as, quote unquote, "classroom management" when it's actually the conditions that are, that are... J- just-- Well, let me just put it this way.
If, if the cognitive load, which refers to something that's taxing working memory, which it's not all a bad thing. There's something referred to as the intrinsic load, which is the stuff of learning something new and connecting of what we already know. But if the extraneous cognitive load, which is when I'm using way too much of my working memory capacity to just try to stay focused, stay on topic, stay on task, as I mentioned before, there's less available.
And if that just-- if that cognitive load keeps growing, you're more likely to see dysregulated behaviors, off-task behaviors, inattentive behaviors, 'cause I'm just kind of like maxed out. and one, one way to think about that is if even if it's low levels of cortisol, but if cortisol the kind of stress hormone is rising in our bodies, our executive functioning tends to be going down, and that's true at any age.
So when we think of basic classroom management, yeah, classroom management through the lens of executive function is about intentionally shaping learning environments to reduce cognitive load, which is gonna lend itself to more on-taskness. And we know from the research that attention is social, so the more attentive...
I don't know if you've read this research on what's referred to as an attention contagion.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But it's well documented, right? Yeah, yeah. Like attentive behavior spread, and so do inattentive. And, and if I can create conditions, not in some authoritarian- Way, but in a way there's just more on-taskness, that, that tends to spread and, and therefore it's kind of the nexus of executive functioning and classroom management.
Speaker 3: So, so in thinking of classroom management, you know, everybody talks ab- everybody. A lot of people talk about the fact that it needs to be taught, it needs to be taught, it needs to be practiced, it needs to be rehearsed. And you talk about th- the executive functions in the, in the same way, where you talk about there needs to be clarity, modeling, and routine.
Mm-hmm. Could you talk about that a, a little bit?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. So if we're gonna think of it through a classroom management lens, it, it, it absolutely have to, it has to be practiced, like how we do school in this particular environment, this classroom. We could also get into, after we talk about this, this what that means when we get collective about it.
But yeah, I, I try to make the distinction that I mentioned already, and you did too just now, that this idea of clarity, modeling, and routine. What I want to be very clear is there's, there's apps that there that are, that are saying they're gonna, they're gonna grow your working memory capacity or we're gonna improve this or that.
There's curriculums on the same thing, but what I've always wanted educators to understand is that even though it might be interesting to learn about goal setting and, and why it's important and how you set goals and how it can change your life and help you be successful in school and all that, it's far less engaging than saying, "How about I set goals in this fifth grade math class, and what that means for me, and create an actionable daily task and, and do the work?"
And so when we look at clarity, clarity is about reducing ambiguity in learning environments. So if, if students are swimming in the seas of ambiguity, they're gobbling up some working memory just trying to navigate the class period or the school day. So clarity modeling, a big part of clarity is modeling.
Like can I see it? And when we think about executive function, and you'd asked me to define them, and I'll go back to that, that they're these cognitive processes that control the goal-oriented behaviors. I always circle the word behavior and say, "That's, that's something I can look at." A behavior could be learning to get and stay organized, manage my time, set goals, stay on task, and so those are the, quote-unquote, skills that actually can be improved.
So when I think of clarity modeling and routine, if I can establish a predictable routine, and that's what you're saying, does this have to be practiced? Absolutely. A consistent, predictable routine, both daily and periodic, and never, ever stray from it. Doug Lemov says it best that consider one unmistakable driver of students' achievement carefully built and practiced routines, and as a byproduct of engaging in a, a routine.
And all I mean by that is how we begin, how we transition, how we conclude, where we put our stuff. Doesn't interfere with academic freedom, nor does it interfere with the time you have allocated to, for teaching and learning. But as a byproduct of that routine, students get practice doing these executive functioning skills.
Like the third step of this routine that I'm talking about, we look at our table of contents, and I update mine while I clearly see it modeled from the front of the classroom and every other student in the space because we all have the same portfolio. So it all of a sudden I've-- there is no ambiguity. I like to say we've painted the gray areas black and white, and as a byproduct of a routine- Which if you have a routine and you stick to it, and if students are lucky enough to get practice with these executive functions as a byproduct of participating in that routine, what it does is it makes for repetition.
In the research, it's very clear, Adele Diamond published a, a kind of a seminal study in 2013 called Executive Functions and, and she makes it very clear that repeated practice is key. But if I'm back to that fifth grade math teacher, for me, ninth grade science, or for Sarah, first grade, I got a job to do, and I usually don't have enough time to get through it in the first place.
So even, even if I wanted to teach these, realistically where am I gonna fit it in? Yeah. So that's the good news here is they can... You, you can incorporate it in a way that doesn't interfere with what you need to do, and that's that clarity, modeling and routine, which is grade level and subject area agnost- agnostic.
We can all do that at any time, so.
Speaker 3: So thinking, so thinking about these cognitive processes and how behaviors manifest and, and, Mitch and Sarah have some ideas to help, to help folks. Mm-hmm. so what behaviors might a teacher observe in a classroom? What, what sort of things manifest that they would say, "Oh, executive functions," versus, "Oh, kids screwing around"?
Speaker 4: What behaviors? Meaning spotting signs of executive dysfunction or-
Speaker 3: There you go. That's it there. Yes, yes
Speaker 4: Got it. Yeah, and I think it's, it's worth noting, or mentioning MTSS in tier one, tier two, and tier three. Ideally, this work is embedded in the tier one, general ed core classroom, all kids.
Because there may be, you know, and I've v- trust me, I've visited classrooms where the interference is so much, it's so high that y- you're seeing kinda like short-circuiting happening. So trying to tease out the difference between is that executive dysfunction or is that cognitive overload and you're literally starting to break down, you know, you're just like-
Speaker 3: Right.
Yeah ...
Speaker 4: maxed out. And I, you know, the, the idea, I'm gonna go kind of back to what we already talked about. To answer that question, it's about intentionally shaping, and ongoing, this is an ongoing iterative process, shaping the environment in ways that leads to better executive function, which is reducing cognitive load, freeing up working memory.
And if you do that, and there is something that's persistent over time, that's actually a good sign, actually. I, I would tell students in my class and kind of when I was introducing this, this routine that we're talking about, this thing called organized binder, and I would, and I would just tell them, "Hey, after like two weeks, if you can't get and stay organized, that's not, you're not in trouble.
that's actually a sign that I need to, we need to just have a conversation. What adjustments might I need to make for you as an individual? What, what's going on there?" Because for whatever reason, this, issue or concern is persistent, and it's in an environment that I've curated to, to help address that.
And so if students are in an, a learning environment, consistently in a learning environment that truly has a universal MTSS tier one Program intervention, whatever you wanna call it, it should do a bunch of things, but one of the most important things a Tier 1 should do is help identify areas of concern with learners and address or mitigate it in the Tier 1.
That to me is an authentic universal Tier 1 so that if it's persistent, something doesn't get mitigated or addressed or helped, now I have a more authentic Tier 2, and you've heard the, the age-old saying by now, you can't Tier 2 yourself out of a Tier 1 problem, right? That's not happening in the Tier 1.
So when I look at a classroom and I stand in the back and I'm trying to figure out, is that executive dysfunction in, in an area that might require a Tier 2 or a Tier 3 or maybe even a, a more intensive, intervention, special ed, or is there ways I can start to shape the environment that reduces some of those behaviors I'm seeing?
And the great thing about this work, Gene, is I'm not sure. It's a conversation we need to have. It's about equipping educators with this, the knowledge of our cognitive architecture and how we shape learning environments, and then having them go back to their spaces and, and think through it.
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting how, everybody looks at a classroom through their lens, you know?
Yeah. And I, and I could see us back in the back of a classroom wa- watching this, and you'd, you'd have your lens the way you just described it. Mm-hmm. And I would describe it, yeah, you know, when we look at this Tier 1 and cognitive load, I'm looking at instructional design, you know? Yeah. And, and, and- I guarantee you
Speaker 4: are.
Speaker 3: And so, and so is that part of the issue? I mean, because you can't... When you're talking about cognitive load, what do we talk about instructional design? First thing, cognitive load, so there's so much- Absolutely ... overlap and, and, and I've heard Sarah talk and, and I'd like to hear, you know, what you have to say about it as well.
So, you know, can we, because then we get special ed involved as well when we talk about all the tiers of intervention. Mm-hmm. And so we talk about is it, is it, executive dysfunction? Is it instruction? Is it, you know, lack of, of... Then how do we keep it all separate, or do we even want to keep it all separate when we're talking about what we're gonna do to help teachers be better with the kids?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's worth- I think it's worth separating out, like your work on instruction design, instruction, like lesson delivery. That's really worth saying, okay, just because you know everything about the topic that you're teaching does not make you a great teacher. We need to structure this in a way, with our cognitive architecture in mind, how we learn.
Why are we coming back to this main point? Why are we getting really clear about here? Like pulling that out, and then I appreciate that in saying, but there's also this whole other thing going on in this learning environment, in this class period or school day, that is often overlooked. Like what's our, what's our more, you know, I'll call it global routine.
So not, not so much the nitty-gritty of this lesson or this activity, which is just as important, but, how about the spaces for when you walk into the classroom and, and how is the classroom set up in a way that's reinforcing those routines, and how are those, embedded in a way that we, again, have our learners' cognitive architecture in mind.
We're not just doing it for the sake of doing it. So- If we can, make clear I think those distinctions, then the conversations and, and, and getting better as educators in our learning spaces are, are more likely as opposed to thinking of it all as one. Which we also do. They have to see how they're all integrated- Yeah, yeah
which, you know, your work on lesson design and activity design embedded into a larger, this, like, global routine I'm talking about that gives practice with executive functions is putting that all together is critical. But teasing them out to figure out what's going on, right? When I'm having signs of executive dysfunction, AKA classroom management issues, figuring that out means, I think, getting really clear with the parts, but thinking about them as a whole.
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about the-- that's a nice segue, Mitch, into what you do with the organized binder. Mm-hmm. And, can you talk about-- 'cause I th- that's what you're talking about with regards to global routines. is that right? Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. So can, can you talk about the organized binder and, and I think just the term organized binder, needs some,
Speaker 4: Yeah
Speaker 3: need, needs some distinctions between what so many schools I go into, they have an agenda. So- Oh, the planner. Yeah So, so the, the planner. So, so talk a little bit about the organized binder and how it specifically, works y- you know, with the, to help with executive functions.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, organized binder is the tool to participate in the routine that we mentioned when I- we, we said clarity, modeling and routine.
So, it-- the funny thing is it's, it's not about the binder, although, research has actually shown that a binder compared to other portfolio systems is superior. Having a binder for every subject or every class is, is really important. but when we look at clarity, modeling and routine, I'll go backwards with it.
When we look at the routine- The routine is how we begin, how we transition, like I said, where we put our stuff, how we conclude, and the tool to participate in that routine is this organized binder. We call it the student bundle. And because we all have the same binder, we have the same student bundle, modeling becomes amplified because it's not just the class sample binder, which there's one of those, too.
I have the same s- setup you have as my students. But if I have 20, or let's say I have 30 students in a class or 40 students in a class, if I have 30 students, I could have as many as 29 other visual reminders, and if you were to look at an organized binder student bundle, you would see different tabs, A through H.
There's no section for notes or homework or classwork or assessments, none of that. That's-- We don't need to talk about that right now. You just see it's A through H. They're all different colors, and at each step of the routine, we're in a different place in the binder. So as we start, we're on this B. It's called the weekly lifeline, and it's white.
The next step, it's green, and then that's our calendar that we use. And then we go to our table of contents. So the routine's established. We never stray from it. It's the same every day. We all have the same portfolio. And because there's so much modeling, and we mentioned it already that, that, that attention is social, so I'm seeing it, so I'm spreading attentive behaviors, which reduces management issues, and that's all for the sake of clarity.
So clarity, modeling, and routine. And as a byproduct, so the thesis of the work is executive functions aren't taught As a byproduct of participating in this routine, I get practice doing these executive functions within the context of the grade level or subject I'm in. That's the stuff we're learning, right?
as a byproduct, I get practice doing these executive functions while I clearly see the model for me. And there's a great-- So I get to do quite a bit of work in the state of Hawaii, and there's a great, native Hawaiian expression, called maka- the way you say it is ma ka hana ka 'ike. And I had a number of educators approach me after an organized binder training or a s- talk on executive functions at a conference or something, and tell me about this and be like, "This sums up this approach to executive functioning."
And the way it can be translated is that the knowing is in the doing, what researchers might refer to as the action-- a knowledge-action association. And that when you look at executive functions, the knowing is in the doing. Like, how am I gonna learn to get and stay organized? I gotta practice it over and over and over and over, ideally daily.
That's the routine, while I'm clearly seeing it modeled. How do I set goals? How do I manage my time? All of that stuff is the knowing is in the doing, which is we gotta make the distinction. There's plenty of things we learn in life because there's someone directly explains it to me, direct instruction.
But these, sure, I can explain it, sure, I can teach you about it, sure, I can say, "Here's the importance of it," but until you get to get messy with it and do it day after day after day, that's the thesis of the organized binder approach.
Speaker 3: Okay. So I'm a, I'm a teacher in your, in one of your sessions. You know, school has hired me 'cause they can't do it individually.
And, and I haven't been doing this, but I come and, and I hear you talk about this, and I get a, a, a, a real problem in the pit of my stomach saying, "Wait a second. I don't do this as an individual. I'm an adult- ... and I, and I don't do this." Do you run into that with, with teachers? And, and, and, h-how, how does that- I do
how does that work? Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. No, oddly, you know, Gene, teachers don't struggle with executive dysfunction. I'm not sure why, but, No, I'm kidding. absolutely. And the, the, the, the, the truth of it, kind of the dirty secret to this approach to supporting executive functions is that it's actually for the teacher, too.
So there's a class sample model. You're, you're, you're thinking about, yeah, you're curating the space. But in an org- if we're talking organized binder specifically The, the same thing that the students are experiencing, the teacher's experiencing. And one of the byproducts of this program is at the end of the school year, you have a curated portfolio and evidence or a data binder, as they, they call them in Arizona, that captures a student's learning and their effort from the first week of school to the very last day of school.
But so does the teacher because it's all being modeled. So that means every lesson has an objective aligned to hopefully if it's a standard or something else. Every, there's a- that agenda, and we didn't even talk about the difference between the planner. We can do that. any- they have this entire year-long curation of their curriculum in a very implementable daily way that's making them more organized.
It's breaking-- It's, it's time management. It's like c- you know how that goes, like- Yeah ... unit planning and timing the whole year, all of it's there for them. So the next year they're start- that's a starting place. I have this portfolio and, and if they're, they're, they're getting, they're developing their executive functioning.
and, and it's worth noting that for educators, and this isn't a blame game, we all struggle with executive dysfunction to some degree. But in learning environments where that's kind of left unchecked by the teacher, it can amplify the issue for students for sure. So coming to organized binder in a professional learning experience, and then getting practical and tangible takeaways that you can bring back to your classroom and do, like do this routine.
In, in that way, it's kind of prescriptive. Like I'm saying, and if you read the white book, which I hope people do- I'm, I, I, I am-- I don't mince words by saying, "Here's the old way of doing it, and here's exactly why it doesn't work, and I want you to go try this." Does that mean you can't adjust it and make it your own in your own environment?
Of course not. But for the s- for the teacher that's like, "I'm completely overwhelmed because I know my subject area somewhat, but w- what do I, how do I do this?" Having some practical evidence-based You know, research-backed strategies that as a byproduct promote executive function can, can be a real godsend for the teacher who's drowning.
Speaker 3: So if you talk about, earlier you talked about the collective, and we didn't talk about that at all. Is this, is this... I'm going to infer that you're talking about you have a group of teachers in a school or every teacher in a school doing this so that the kids- Yeah ... move from year to year, class to class with a, with similar, with similar expectations.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so when we look at the research, what consistently has the, the highest effect size is something called collective teacher efficacy, and that's the belief that we can help students be more successful if we work together as a team. And I've always, when I was reading that research and, you know, diving into effect size and visible learning, that really intrigued me because- If that's what the research says, and it's true, how do we get collective if we're siloed by definition?
You know, at a, in an elementary school, I'm teaching first grade. Maybe there's a couple other teachers teaching the same grade level, maybe not. then there's second, then there's third. If you've ever sat down with a primary team, even K-1-2, the, the quantum leap both developmentally, behaviorally, socially from kinder to second, I mean, they're just entirely different spaces in a way that, like, ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th is not so radically different.
But in-- at that high school or at a middle school in a secondary space, we're siloed by subject, right? I teach sixth grade ELA. You're seventh grade history. I'm teaching PE. You're specials or electives. We're in different places on campus. I mean, we're, we're siloed. And so I've always scratched my head, and again, my passion has always been, okay, what's that mean tomorrow, though?
If that's what's really gonna set my students up for success, and that's what we're all trying to do here is help kids be successful, how can that be possible? Well, it has to be. I'm absolutely convinced that collective initiatives, they have to be realistically implemented. So there's this great line that says, "School from research," and I can't cite the, the report, the, the paper, but I can cite the quote that, "Schools can't expect change in outcomes until initiatives are implemented by the majority of teachers."
And I always like to say that the next-- I wish I wrote the paper 'cause the next sentence would've said, "And therefore, initiatives have to be implementable by the majority of teachers." 'Cause if you've been in this game long enough, you've had a professional learning experience that just was not relevant or realistic to what you do.
If that's the case, you can't get collective about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But if we're gonna get collective, it has to be grade level and subject area agnostic, and that's the clarity, modeling, and routine for the sake of executive function development.
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about one more-- I don't wanna call it a silo. I'm gonna call it, just a different philosophy, I guess, you know, in, in schools, and that has to do with regards to use of technology.
I mean, I, I know that I had, You know, for years I was struggling. I guess I was struggling with executive functions. I had a, I had a great organized binder. It wasn't your organized binder, but I had a binder. It had a, you know, it had a by month, then it had every day, and then it had goals, and then it had projects, and then it had all these things.
And then, ... Well, wait a second, you don't have a digital calendar? No. Mm-hmm. I could never figure out how to make that transfer. Mm-hmm. Okay? And now there are people who don't even know what Franklin Planners are, and they don't know what, what things are, and it's all digital. Mm-hmm. And do you ever have that sort of conversation?
Does that come up with teachers about, "Well, wait a second. You know, we're gonna have this physical binder, and we're gonna punch holes, and we're gonna put it in the binder"? Mm-hmm. Versus, versus, "Well, wait a second. We're in, we're in the digital world now." Do you have that conversation with teachers?
Speaker 4: That might be the conversation I have more than any other conversation.
You know? and, and in, and I'm not anti-technology, but I am pro analog, in particular with executive functions. It's probably less a part of the conversation in the cor- in the, the, with the blue book, the, the primary years, as it starts to be in upper elementary, middle, and high school. And, and I have for many years been a proponent of analog.
And, you know, it, it's funny. You know, you know that saying, if I had a nickel for every time somebody asked me if Organized Binder was gonna be an app, and I said no. And they said, "Why?" And I said, "Because apps do things for us, and that's wonderful." Right? I mean, think of GPS, for example. What a fantastic app.
I mean, you remember the Thompson Guide. Yeah. You'd kill yourself trying to navigate, right? Wonderful technology, but when we think of the, the agency in both school and life, when you look at the research of the impact of developing executive functions, it's not just school readiness and school success, it's, it's, I mean, marital harmony.
I mean, living a productive life. I mean, it's incredible when you dive into the research. And so I don't want that done for students. I want them to learn it, and there's something about the analog. There's, we know the, the, the, like, hand-brain connection and, and our friend Jared, who wrote The Digital Delusion, has outlined plenty of research that's pretty clear that technology, is just one tool in our toolkit.
It's not the end all be all. And if we, if we yield, wield it in the, in the classroom in a way that's like it's just gonna, we're gonna be almost like distance learning in the classroom, you know, technology all the time, I think we're, we're missing something. And I was- Do I get asked by, I was just on a, a podcast last week with, at a college, and so it was all for higher ed.
And there it was about the, you know, what's going on in higher ed, AI, asynchronous classes, moving online, and then signs of executive dysfunction. And the, the question that was asked I thought was a really good one, that students at the higher ed level, and I'd say any level, but let's just keep it there, who are, who are exhibiting signs of executive dysfunction, or could most likely benefit from AI offloading those executive dysfunction concerns, like have it, you know, just do it for you.
They could y- And I, and, and w- we, we bypass a step there, The, the, the idea of productive struggle, like the intentionality of figuring this out, like learning to get and stay organized and making those, those become transferable competencies. I take them with them, and I could translate that into a digital environment.
But, offloading it in some ways, and when we think of AI doing it for us, there's a great, expression that's, it's kind of, it's cognitive surrender. It's gonna do that for us. Now-
Speaker 3: Mm ...
Speaker 4: in certain areas, is that a... Again, that's what apps do for us, right? That doesn't have to just be AI. But I, I do think in the digital world we have to be careful not to have it done for students, because then we never give them the chance to learn and hone these executive functions that they can then take with them into other environments.
So I'm, I'm definitely, pro analog, and there is a growing body of research that supports that. And I wanna be clear, that's not anti-tech. That doesn't mean we don't have technology in our learning spaces. but is definitely pro analog for the, for the sake of how our brains work, and not, bypassing an opportunity for students to develop these very critical skills and habits that set them up for success.
Speaker 3: And I w- I'd like to reinforce something you said earlier, that it also assists teachers in developing these skills and- Absolutely ... and, and, and teaching them. Mitch, I tell you, I could talk to you forever. I got lots of questions- Mm-hmm ... that I didn't get to. Do you have any questions for me before we go?
Speaker 4: I do. because I got to sit in on your session in St. Louis, and first of all, I'll just tell you again, great job considering, speaking of technology- ... the technological breakdown and how you still, your, your, your- explanation and the work you've done to, what I, on, on lesson planning. I'm, I, I might be summarizing it in the wrong way, but it was v- it resonated with me because instead of it being here's why it's important to have a clear lesson plan, and here's some idea...
You were like, "Here's exactly a, a, a structure you can use, and here's why." This is, it's all tied to research and how our brains work. and so my curiosity is, well, first, I can't wait to mash up the organized binder routine with your lesson planning, what I think of as a routine more than anything- Yes, yes, yeah
but the structure you provided. that's like the holy grail in my mind. And again, that's, that's content and grade level agnostic, right? Correct, yeah. We're not talking about the stuff- Right ... you're teaching.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm so curious where, your journey, and maybe this is a whole other... Maybe I can be on your podcast and interview you, but-
where did that come from? How did it come out of your work? How does it- how are you supporting teachers now? All of that, what do you-
Speaker 3: Well, well, it, it, it's interesting, the genesis,
Speaker 4: I have a- And does
Speaker 3: it have a
Speaker 4: name?
Speaker 3: you know what? I have to ask Zach Rochelle. Zach, every time, you know, Zach will ask me a question- You stole it from him.
No, no, no. Don't... Oh, you're asking me about the name itself, the FAST Framework?
Speaker 4: This is
Speaker 3: your
Speaker 4: structure.
Speaker 3: Okay. Well, let me, let me tell you about the name, first of all. like, when I went in and started our consulting group, I, I started to work with a fellow named, Frank Rodriguez. And we were doing this at a time where, Common Core was coming in-
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm
Speaker 3: and we were doing explicit instruction, and some people were calling it direct instruction, some people were calling it explicit- Yeah ... direct instruction. So we wanted to come up with something so we could fool them, I mean, in, in, in a way- ... so that, so that when they came in, they didn't initially have a block against it.
Yeah, you didn't throw out the- Oh, I'm, I'm against it. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Because, well, you've been, you know, you saw, you know, ended up being a 30-minute presentation. It's pretty hard to argue with some of the things that just make sense. So once you get to see it, you say, "Well, of course. Of course." But if you put a name up, then you get your, these silos again.
So that's... So we came up with FAST, Focused Adaptable Structure Teaching. So, so that was the, the genesis of the name. But, but, personally, I never really wanted to be a teacher, I wanted to be a coach.
Speaker 4: Mm.
Speaker 3: And so, when I was on the field... Well, unfortunately, they make you do both, right? So when I was on the field, I, man, I could break things down.
I could teach anybody anything, you know? If a kid listened to me, you were average, you average talent, you listen to me, you're gonna be above average on the field, you know? Mm-hmm. Because we'd figure that out. But I never figured out how to do that in the classroom.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
Speaker 3: And so then, I went to work for a, for a company, and, they did this.
And, my job was to recruit and train new people. And so I met fellow Frank Rodriguez. And, we were part of the crew that had to go out to rescue accounts because the people liked- Yeah ... the people liked kind of the program, but they didn't like the people. And so we'd go out, and so after a while we started thinking, "You know what?
We can do this better." And, and one of the things we wanted to do better was to simplify it. Because it was so much, I mean, they'd have a seven-page lesson plan, and they'd like, "Holy cow, teachers are not gonna do this." So that was the first, that was the first thing we did. And it was easy to do this step-by-step stuff.
But when we got into the, arena of like, you were a biology teacher, correct? Okay. So when we got into biology, where it was more conceptual or some of the social studies, is how does, what does this look like with that? And it took us several years to work it out, you know? I believe you. Yeah. And, and, and, and how we worked it out was just by watching teachers and studying teachers, 'cause we were in classrooms all the time.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
Speaker 3: And so, and so when we finally figured that out, we said, "We've really got, you know, we've really got something here," because now that flexible, that focused, adaptable lesson structure could be used for all content areas.
Speaker 4: That's it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, so that, when we got that, we go, "Okay, we've got this." And then I had a chance, again, to observe great teachers, and, and I almost felt like Rosenshine.
You know, I'm watching teachers- Yeah ... and okay, I've, I've figured out what they do. I'm doing this. Here's the, here's the explanation for it. And, and so, watching teachers, and then I had some real smart people working for me. And it was that type of thing, you know, you, they'd be out every day. We'd all be watching classrooms, and then we'd all, the end of the day, debrief and collaborate and talk about what we learned.
Mm-hmm. And, and so it's, it's, it, it's really, you know, we have that research that everybody talks about that, you know, the retrieval and cognitive load and all of that. But we also had a chance to just to see this in the field- Right ... and say, "This is why this is working." And we had the research to explain this is why it's working, but we also got to see it work and then share this good stuff with other teachers, and just, it just, it just evolved.
Yeah. So, so now, now we- Very
Speaker 4: cool ...
Speaker 3: now we've got something, you know? And, and like, like you said, the, you know, like how do we mash this with the executive functions? And, and, and I really think, and I've mentioned this to you before, I really think that there's a universal you know- There is ... a u- a, a unified, it's, you know, it's structural thing that everything can fit.
Mm-hmm. You know, that everything will fit with this base, this research that has been developed behind it. Yeah. So, so I think that's, that's what I would like to see because, you know, you talk about, tier one, you talk about, executive functions, you talk about universal lessons. I mean, all of these things, man, we, we, if we could do one thing so teachers aren't thinking, "Oh, it's another thing, it's another thing," the more we can do that, I think the more we can help teachers, so.
Speaker 4: Right. Very cool. I can see why it resonate. I mean, it's, you- you've kept it, well, it, it came from- practical, regular old classrooms- Yes ... and spending a lot of time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right? And that was- Yeah ... my experience like, why aren't you being successful? Like, I'm getting to know you, we're having fun. I taught science, right?
We could- I- kids were engaged, I could blow things up and drop watermelons off- ... the gym and cut things open, and all this stuff. But you do- Yeah, yeah ... all the science and they weren't progressing. It was like, "What's missing here?" And, and nobody, nobody talked about it. But ke- the fact that it's grounded in that practical reality.
That was just my takeaway in your session, I was like, "Oh, every teacher could benefit from this." And it's not... So I think some people hear that and they think, "Oh, it's con- it's constricting, it's, it's confi- I have to just do it." It's like, no, this is just giving you a structure with which to be creative in, right?
Speaker 3: Ex- ex- ex- exactly. And I think it's, it's the limitations. When we have limitations, that's when the creativity comes out. You know, Mm-hmm ... we don't, you know, this cognitive load, okay, how am I gonna do this? Yeah. I only, I only got attention for a few minutes, how am I gonna exclude? Yeah. So, so it's all of those things and, and that's what's so, so awesome in my work, is to be able to see within the structure the creativity of the teachers.
We tell them, we never wanna... I mean, you, especially those middle school teachers. I mean, you were hired because of your personality. We do not want to take your personality away.
Speaker 4: Absolutely not. I say that all the time. I was just talking to some middle schoolers, last week, teachers, and I, it was that whole notion, kind of towards the end of a, organized binder training, and I just said, "Look, the, the structure, the routine is, this is gonna allow for you to make collective efficacy a reality."
Yes. So if we're following the research, but at the same time, it leaves plenty of space for you to be you, to bring your person, your- Yeah ... your energy, your... The, the, the, the culture of every learning environment's gonna be different because of the people in the room. Learning's embodied, it's about all of us.
And, and, so that doesn't mean it's infringing on your academic freedom, so that's good stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Mitch, it has been a joy talking to you- Absolutely ... seeing you again. You too, Gene. And we'll, we'll have to do it again.
Speaker 4: I would love that. Thanks, Gene. All
Speaker 3: right. Thank you, Mitch.
Speaker 5: If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend. Also, please leave a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. You can follow me on Bluesky at gtavernetti, on Twitter/X at gtavernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, tesscg.com. That's T-E-S-S-C-G.com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast: Focused, Adaptable, Structured Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles