Yet Another Feminist Episode!

In this episode, we discuss how the backlash against women of color being cast in “unexpected” roles is a direct result of the unchecked power that white men still have.

More Than You Think! is a podcast produced by WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2, student-run radio from NC State University. Like what you hear? Consider supporting it with a gift to the WKNC Enhancement Fund. Visit our podcast page to hear more and follow us on all social media platforms @WKNC881. Thanks for listening.

Creators and Guests

Host

Valerie Gorham

WKNC Podcast Content Creator

What is More Than You Think!?

“More Than You Think!" is a podcast that explores the deeper layers of pop culture, uncovering how today’s trends connect with the political, economic, and social climate shaping our world. Each episode dives into the ways music, media, and cultural moments reflect — and influence — the society we live in. "More Than You Think!" is a podcast produced by WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2 at NC State University.

00:00
Valerie
Foreign. And welcome to another episode of More than you think. This is a podcast where we talk about how
political, economic and social events are tied in with pop culture. And I am your host, Valerie. Yay. You're so
lucky. All right, anyways, that was a joke, by the way. Today we are going to be talking about Lupita Nyong'o.
O. I hope I said that correctly. I just watched a video of how to say her name that she said her own name in. So I
hope that was good enough for everyone. But we are going to be talking about not just her, of course, but a lot
of actresses, mostly actresses female, but sometimes also male actors who get cast in roles that for some reason,
people expected this character to be white.

00:57
Valerie
So most recent example, of course, is going to be with Lupita in the Odyssey as Helen of Troy, who is that
baddie that everyone went to war over, right? And so a bunch of little white boys on the Internet, old white guys
on the Internet, everyone's like, I don't think Helen of Troy was actually black. I don't think Helen of Troy was
actually black. Okay? Like, I don't care and I don't want to hear it. And this happens every so often when, you
know, Hollywood and they cast a black woman or a black actor in a role that people expect to be white. This
also happened when Zendaya was cast as MJ in Spider man or when Halle Bailey was cast as Ariel in the live
action remake of the Little Mermaid.

01:48
Valerie
It even happened to Rachel Zegler when she was cast as Snow White. Was it a terrible movie? Yes, but it wasn't
because she's not white. But this happens to mostly to women. Let's just say it out loud, okay? It happens mostly
to women of color. Of course it's not going to happen to white women. They're going to be like, why did you
cast the white lady? The only time I've seen real uproar about it, which was actually amazing, was when Jacob
Elordi was cast as Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. Luckily, we've accepted Zendaya as mj. I mean, I think for
the most part, nobody cares about that anymore because everyone loves Zendaya as they should. I mean, if you
don't love Zendaya, girl, just look up that clip of Zendaya doing too much. That is one of the greatest clips. Oh,
my gosh.

02:36
Valerie
She was doing way too much. Way too much. Way too much. To impress Tom Holland, shout out to them. The
newlyweds. Love them. Love that for you. Guys. And you know what? Maybe she wasn't doing too much,
because in the end, it all worked out. But anyways, let's talk about racism. Okay, Racism. At first of all, I know I
said it with a very happy tone, but racism. Knock it off. And I don't think that a lot of people really understand
how. How telling it is that there's this much conversation about Lupita playing Helen of Troy. Now, here's a
little background on what the Odyssey is, what it's about. A lot of people say, don't watch the new one. Watch
the spongebob movie where he goes to Shell City.

03:22
Valerie
That's the true Odyssey and the greatest adaptation of the Odyssey you might be able to find in your life ever.
But let me just break it down for you guys, all right? I think the most important piece of information is going to
be the fact that the Odyssey is fictional. Yay. So, yes, it was written by a Greek man named Homer. Not with a
Simpson, a different guy. He was an author and stuff. But I think the most important piece of information that
we need to know for this podcast is that Helen of Troy not only is, like, a character in this fictional story, but
she's actually not a Greek character in the story, even. And so people are like, oh, Lupita's black. She doesn't fit
in with this Greek story. Helen of Troy is, like a demigod in this story.

04:20
Valerie
So it doesn't actually matter that she's not the same skin color as the. The rest of the mortal people in the story.
She just has to be a baddie. And, well, let's just say Lupita is quite the baddie, and people are on about some
historical accuracy. Honey. Okay, it didn't actually happen. It's not a historical. I. I wonder if people think that
it's like. Like a historical myth or something, that this, like, was believed to have actually happened. No, this is a
fictional freaking story. It's. It's. It's an epic. That's the genre. You know, it's about a guy, Matt Damon, and then

he goes and he does some stuff, and his wife is, like, left there for a long time, and everyone's trying to get with
her because she's gorgeous Anne Hathaway. And then he comes back and he wins.

05:13
Valerie
He wins her hand in marriage. Again, it's okay anyways. But along the way, you know, stuff happens, stuff
transpires, and Helen of Troy is there, and then she's like this, like, angelic figure. And the fact that people say
that Like a black woman. A black woman who not only is a very talented actress, but also, like, really pretty.
Like, yeah, she's actually really pretty. Like, I don't know why people don't think that actually, as I do. I'm
gonna get into it in a second. This beautiful woman, people say that she isn't pretty enough or historically
accurate enough to play Helen of Troy. So I think I've already said this. It's racism, right? Yeah. So it's. It's.
People are racist. People are still racist. Yeah. I have to whisper, scream, because it's like, night time.

06:15
Valerie
The other people that I live with are asleep, so I can't, like, actually scream. But yeah, it's racism. And racism is
quite bad. Yeah. I feel like Bobby Newport from Parks and Rec when I say that. When he was like, I'm. I'm. I'm
against crime. I'm against crime, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Like, we all know racism is bad. Some people
don't think that. And then they go online behind the screen of their computer where they feel most comfortable,
because that's where they can be fat, ugly, sweaty, and eat all their chips and like, suck on their fingers after they
eat their Cheetos. And they type a bunch of stuff about this successful, young, beautiful, gorgeous woman,
Lupita Nyong'o. O.

07:03
Valerie
And sure, maybe Lupita is too successful and too dripped out and too busy making money to see these
comments online about how she isn't pretty, about how these racist people don't think that she's up to their
standard because she isn't as white as them, which is just insane. Sure, she might not be seeing it. She might not
care. Whatever. Other young black women, other young women of color. And it's something that I see on
TikTok all the time, that they will start to believe that because of the color of their skin and a little extra
melanin, they aren't considered as beautiful, they aren't considered to be as pretty as, like, the average white girl.
It's something that I have seen so many TikToks on, especially in the last 3ish months. Every now and then I get
a TikTok.

07:59
Valerie
It's like at least once a day of a girl who is a woman of color, a young woman of color, and she makes a TikTok
just with the camera just pointing towards herself. And then the text says something along the lines of it's
unfortunate or it's so sad or whatever, how, you know, if you're not a white Girl, you know, you have to be twice
as pretty or you have to be trying twice as hard to look pretty just to be considered, you know, as attractive or
whatever as the average white girl, as the most mid white girl. And the thing is, like, sure, I don't like to
compare beauty with anyone. Like, I don't like to call any woman mid.

08:44
Valerie
I think that everyone's extremely beautiful in their own special, amazing way and that just because you don't fit
a certain standard doesn't mean you're less beautiful. Obviously, that's, you know, that's just how I feel because
I, I try to be a good person. Aww. But the reality is that out there, and we've talked about this on this podcast
before, but there are beauty standards for women that are completely unrealistic. And the weirdest part that I'm
going to mention, but we're not going to go into depth about it today, is that a lot of beauty standards that are
currently being pushed onto everyone, including white women, are kind of. They resemble the natural features
of other ethnicities. For example, plump lips or like bbl body. Like, those are features that are very common in
African or like indigenous genetics.

09:40
Valerie
So the beauty standards for white women are also coming from other races. It's weird. But the point is that this
narrative has to really, it really has to stop because it's something that affects, it affects people of color that you
can't be as beautiful as a white woman just because you aren't white, just because you're darker. And even no
matter if you're the most beautiful dark skinned woman in the world, this idea that you still don't compare to a

white woman, that has to stop. Because the problem with that is not only that it hurts women of color, but it also
kind of allows white men to have all the say in what women should look like. There is no real one way that
women should look like. And it certainly should not be defined by men and especially not just women.

10:43
Valerie
One type of man, you know, just. It shouldn't just be white men and it shouldn't be anyone. Have you guys seen
Charles Hue on Tik Tok when he says, like, he's like talking to the chef at like a fake restaurant and he like pulls
like an apple out of his purse and he's like, my challenge for you is to incorporate this apple into our meal. I
have this green apple. Okay, My challenge for you guys back there. What? Today Valerie has a challenge for
you. My challenge for you is to go up to a group of girls Regardless of the race, age, or whatever background, if
they're all the same, if they're all different, you're probably going to get the same result. Okay, go up to a group
of women or girls and ask, what is your type in men?

11:35
Valerie
And you're not going to get the same answer. Probably from any two of the girls in that group. You might. One
of them's gonna say hot rodent man. Challengers. The other one's gonna say ugly. The other one's gonna say tall,
dark and handsome. The other one's gonna say gay. And if anyone doesn't believe me, yes, it's true. Okay, that
friend is me. I had a crush on the guy from Teen beach movie, Tanner. When I was little, I thought that he was
really cool and masculine and handsome. And I was 10. And I just thought, oh, he's so cool and he has a cool
hairdo and he sings. And when I tell people that, they're like, valerie, how could you not tell? And I was like, I
don't. I didn't really know I was 10. Dang.

12:33
Valerie
You'll have another friend who specifically likes short guys. For some reason, I love a short king. Like, we all
have that friend. Oh, my gosh. It's so silly because we girls, we had, like, a little variety. And if you take a look
at media and advertising and television, you'll notice that. That men don't feel the same way. Because, you
know, as I said, white men dictate the beauty standard. And you'll notice that there's emphasis in our culture on
white women being the most beautiful. And that's. That's messed up. So what are we going to do about it?
Here's what we're going to do about it, because we have to do something about it. First of all, I just need to put
this out there because it's something that I know a lot of people don't do.

13:30
Valerie
If you do see something on social media that is like, racist or discriminatory against women of color or anyone
of color, do not interact with the post. A lot of people are like, okay, I'm just gonna write this hate comment
under that other hate comment. It's like, yeah, you can write a hate comment against a racist person, and then
that actually boosts the engagement for the post. And then more people will probably see it because then the
app, the algorithm of the app is like, oh, yeah, people are commenting, people are interacting. You know, so
when you see something that you don't like on your phone, you can press the not Interested button. Wow. Most
apps do have the not interested button.

14:21
Valerie
The second very simple thing you can do, of course, is just to support any sort of companies, brands that have
good ethics, that like use diverse models, any sort of beauty brands or any company at all that emphasizes
diversity and the beauty of like everyone, not just white people, not just white girls, not just what white guys
want to see. That's very easy to do. You know, you just have to look at their advertisements. Do they have
diversity? Are they showing that anyone can beautiful no matter what their ethnicity or skin color is? All right,
and then the third thing that you can do a, if you're someone who works in media, bring this idea up to your
bosses, your creative team, that diversity is important. And it's especially important to younger people. Okay?

15:18
Valerie
It feels important to younger generations that we are marketed with diversity because why? Because we're more
woke. Because we're badder. Because we're more T. Our bodies are more tea. Our faces are T. Our hair is T.
We're T. And we're woke and we're thick and we're bad to the bone. Okay? I feel like my freaking whatever
type of accent this is, this freaking weird American freaking accent that I have. Every time I try to use like

modern day lingo, I just sound goofy as frick. Anyways, if you b, don't work in media, this kind of goes with
what I said before.

15:59
Valerie
But when you do see a marketing campaign that is diverse, you know, give it a, like, give it a, like, give it a little
interaction on your phone because companies check on which of their posts get the most interaction and which
of them get the most attention. And if the ones with the diversity get the most attention, then they're going to
keep doing that. And if they keep doing that, well, we might just change the beauty standards. You might see
more diverse models or people faces on your screens and in your media. And then of course, as I said before,
this is something that has a huge impact on the psychology and the self confidence of young women, especially
young women of color who rarely see themselves represented in media. So hopefully you're a little woker by
now. Hopefully you've become the woker himself.

17:02
Valerie
But that is my spiel for today and I just hope that you take a little something with you from that. All right
everyone, have a great day. I will be back in another two weeks with another episode, so stay tuned. I'm no
longer in the US Actually, I'm in the US but anyway, stay tuned. Stay tuned. All right. Thank you for listening.
Love you. Bye.

Transcribed by https://fireflies.ai/