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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Shannon Scott (16:04)
Well, welcome back to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. I'm so glad that you are joining us today and I am pumped for this conversation. You've already heard me give you kind of the precursor that you need to know in order to have this conversation, but we are so grateful to be hearing from Dr. Lynn Cohick today. Dr. Lynn, thank you for being willing to be on this podcast.
Lynn (16:06)
Okay.
Well, thanks Shannon for the invitation and I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Shannon Scott (16:37)
Yes, me too. And I have already explained that this has been a long time coming. And I would imagine I speak for a lot of our listeners who find themselves not on one extreme, not on the other extreme, maybe in the confused, messy middle on this. And as I have prayed about this for several years, I have told you privately, but I will also tell everyone that
Lynn (16:57)
Yes, yes.
Shannon Scott (17:07)
hearing, getting to read your work but then hear from you live at Kerygma four years ago was a game changer for me. I sobbed talking about it to people, I sobbed on stage introducing you for your keynote and it just felt like a huge pond in an ongoing desert of several years of being
Lynn (17:33)
Hmm.
Shannon Scott (17:34)
unsure, confused, and afraid, if I'm honest, about what it looks like to step into any kind of gifting or calling as a woman that has had so much controversy surrounding it and still does. ⁓ So I would love for just our listeners to hear from you. You have spent decades studying women in the early church, from the New Testament through the fifth century even.
Lynn (17:36)
Yeah.
Hmm. Yeah.
⁓ Yes. ⁓
Yes.
Shannon Scott (18:04)
And you also, this was fun for me to read, grew up with parents who believed you could do whatever you wanted. So no lid, no limits, you've said, but not everyone has that experience. A lot of us grew up, I wouldn't even say from my parents, but just from my faith tradition, being told there were certain things we could not do because we were female.
Lynn (18:10)
Yeah. Yep.
Shannon Scott (18:26)
So how has your background, but also understanding what so many of the rest of us have experienced shaped the way that you not only approach scripture, but how you've decided to teach it?
Lynn (18:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, thank you. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, I was raised in a nominal Methodist home. So I think if you had asked my parents, you know, when I was in grade school, are you a Christian? They would have said, of course, yeah. But it didn't. We'd go to church, you know, once or twice a month. It didn't really factor ⁓ factor. And I knew there was a God I thought, you know, that he was loving. And, you know, that was that was about it.
⁓ and I think what that did was I, I didn't, when I finally came to faith in high school, I didn't have the baggage that, for example, my husband who was raised, ⁓ fundamentalist Baptist, ⁓ he had all kinds of like rules and regulations. You could do this, you couldn't do that. And I thought, wow, like I had no idea about any of that. So I think.
Shannon Scott (19:33)
Yeah, who knew?
Lynn (19:35)
Exactly. You know, like you can't watch football on Sunday. Are you kidding me? That was kind of my parents' religion. We are from Pittsburgh, although I didn't grow up in Pittsburgh, but ⁓ in Harrisburg, which is a couple hours east. But anyway, we're Pittsburgh Steelers fans. So if we had a religion or what we did on Sunday, it was watch the Pittsburgh Steelers. So to think, my word, there was a problem with watching football. I just couldn't wrap my mind around it. ⁓
But I think the, so not, didn't have baggage the way that my husband brought some baggage with him, you know, into his adult experience of being a Christian. But he also said, you know, I never knew a time. I don't have any memories of me not knowing Jesus, where I sure do, you know? So I think ⁓ there's positive in the way that he was raised. I think also I was raised in a family
Shannon Scott (20:26)
Yeah.
Lynn (20:29)
that really invited questions. so ⁓ that, I think that has helped me going forward that I just find it like, okay, to ask questions. It's not impertinent, you know? And I'd rather know than not or kind of be told, no. And I also like to kind of dig.
So hence being a professor. ⁓ But I would say that ⁓ not so, so I was raised where I could, you know, just the expectation women could do, you know, anything. I mean, I, I also know they hoped I would get married and they would have grand babies, you know, so, but, ⁓ but, know, the, overall there, there was an expectation I would have a job. would have a career. ⁓ When I came to faith,
Shannon Scott (20:59)
Yeah.
Yes
Lynn (21:26)
as in high school. Actually, I came to faith in a United Methodist Church, but that church ⁓ ended up ⁓ firing the pastor and the youth pastor because they were too ⁓ focused on evangelism. So we, my mom and I moved to, I know, I know. Yeah, yeah. Don't tell us any of this born again stuff. So my mom and I went to a
Shannon Scott (21:46)
gosh.
Lynn (21:54)
⁓ Church that had just started it was evangelical free and I you know We didn't know what that was but mom had just heard from a friend that this was a good Church to go to and that church said women can't be pastors. So I remember my dad who at this point was not ⁓ Going to go into church ⁓ He he said well, you know, you're at this new church you've you know have this new commitment of faith I guess you'll be a pastor and I'm like, no mom
Sorry, dad, no dad. ⁓ Women can't be pastors. So, you know, I entered into a space where there were restrictions, but that clothing never fit well on me. You know, I just kind of knew this wasn't right.
Shannon Scott (22:40)
Interesting.
And did that knowing that it wasn't right, that was just kind of a feeling that you had of like, this doesn't seem to jive or ⁓ like if it was that new, did you really have anything to base that on other than this just doesn't feel like it's the right thing.
Lynn (23:09)
You know, I think because although they said, you know, women can't be pastors, there really wasn't, wasn't an emphasis at all. And the youth group, which included high school and college was incredibly dynamic. We were doing all kinds of things and it was an amazing time of growth. So I didn't feel restricted in any way. And I've personally never felt called to be a pastor. So it's not like I felt restricted at that point where
where I began to feel restricted was in teaching. But when you're in high school and college, like you're not thinking you're gonna teach 30 year olds, you know, in their Sunday school class anyway. So I think I had a little bit of space to really grow and ⁓ in the word and in my relationship with God before things really got more dicey, I guess you would say once I was in graduate school.
Then I was thinking, actually have more knowledge than ⁓ what's being taught in some cases, and ⁓ my voice is not appreciated.
Shannon Scott (24:21)
Did you always like, you talked about graduate school. When was it that you realized, I think I'm supposed to be someone who puts a lot of language of understanding around this specific issue for people.
Lynn (24:40)
⁓ I would say that first I had ⁓ an emotional, sort of evangelistic realization. One of my classes in graduate school was a class on feminism and Christianity. That's what it was called. This was in the 1980s. So feminism at that point was equal pay for equal work, right? The Title IX, you know, all of that stuff.
And there were about 20 women in the class and the myself and one other woman who was an Episcopal. Everyone else was post-Christian. That's how they identified themselves. And they had legitimate complaints, I think, against the church. But what broke my heart and it really and truly did was I thought they because of
they're looking at this, that they're not going to get a chance to know Jesus. And what I really want is for them to know Jesus. So I would say that probably at that point, you know, so mid 1980s, I had a burden, but I wouldn't have articulated it that way. And I had lot, I had a lot to do in terms of just establishing myself as a scholar and understanding the New Testament broadly.
Shannon Scott (25:51)
Yeah.
Lynn (26:09)
teaching that for years and years, then you have a breadth of everything that's going on so that you can kind of dive into a specialty. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (26:20)
Yeah,
well, we are the richer for it, for sure. ⁓ So as you have looked at how specifically Jesus interacted with women across the gospels, Mary and Martha, which we've heard this story told, you know, six ways to Sunday in a way that casts one in a great light and the other not so much most of the time. ⁓
The Samaritan woman, Mary Magdalene, we know there were women who financially supported the ministry of Jesus. So what stands out to you about how women interacted with Jesus and how he interacted with them specifically? And what would that have been like in that culture? How were women being treated in that culture?
Lynn (26:49)
Thanks.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes. So the first century Jewish world, Judea and Galilee, with Samaria sandwiched in between, were part of the wider Greco-Roman empire. And so everyone, the major language would have been Greek, although the Romans spoke Latin, but everybody, sort of the trade language would be Greek. The Greek customs would have been there. They...
They would have known they were part of the empire, but then they also had their own ethnic ⁓ traditions. Obviously, they're speaking Aramaic. They have their Bible. They have their temple in Jerusalem. And they have these practices that are distinctive, such as resting on Sabbath. No pagans do that. This is unique to Judaism. ⁓ They have particular food laws, and especially for the Romans who love pork.
it, the, the, ⁓ abstaining from pork just was so hard for a Roman to wrap their mind around. And some Romans admired the law that the Jews, ⁓ followed, but a lot of times they were mocked or ridiculed. They were seen, in, a more negative light, broadly speaking. But if you're in Galilee,
then you're mainly interacting with Jews. And so Jesus's ministry in Galilee, you'd walk days journey or so from one little town to the next, maybe we'd even call them villages. you would, somebody would always know somebody, you know, and there'd be like a, you know, a second cousin once removed kind of stuff, you know, it was, it would have a small town feel in that way as you would go.
Shannon Scott (28:45)
Yeah.
Lynn (28:56)
around. So there was a just a general understanding and common culture. With all that said, women in the Greco-Roman world had opportunities
that we sometimes think they didn't have. So they could run shops. They could own property. ⁓ They inherited. The Roman women could inherit. With the Jews, they did something called a deed of gift. a parent could, they couldn't give an inheritance in a technical sense, but they just called it something different and gave an inheritance to their daughters. ⁓
there was, in other words, there was a lot of freedom. There was a freedom of movement, especially in Galilee and Judea when the, except for a sprinkling of Gentiles, it's mainly Jews everywhere. it's a, you're in like your own space and homogenous culture in a lot of ways. I say all that because we want to picture Jesus and the followers that he had to include women like,
women walked along them. didn't just write a check and put it in the mail. They were there day in and day out. And especially because there'd be hospitality offered, ⁓ that it was never seen as a problem. There's no hint in the gospels that ⁓ Jesus's group was ever ⁓ charged with being immoral as a group. I mean, it said that Jesus eats with tax collectors and sinners, but
Shannon Scott (30:31)
Right?
Lynn (30:49)
⁓ The eating the meal isn't a problem. It's who's invited to it, you know that he would so I want to paint this picture that ⁓ Women did a lot more than we tend to give them credit for that said There was a ceiling right? So there was and this is goes back to Aristotle And it's it was just part of the air they breathed. There was a sense in which the male was superior
Shannon Scott (31:07)
Yeah.
Lynn (31:19)
It was, if we're going to talk about like thinking, the man would be the rational one and the woman would be the irrational one, right? Or if you're going to talk about decision-making, the man showed his courage and strength by making decisions and the woman showed her good character by obeying those. So that's how Aristotle would kind of talk about things. And that was ⁓ the assumption.
whether you were Jew or Gentile at this time, except with Jesus. So that is where I would say ⁓ we see Jesus stepping out of the broad patriarchy of his day. It's not just patriarchy among Jews. ⁓ It's not like Jewish men were especially ⁓ hard on Jewish women or something like that. That's not the case.
Shannon Scott (31:54)
Wow.
Lynn (32:18)
But Jesus saw in women the Imago Dei, I mean, why wouldn't he? Second person of the Trinity, part of the creation, it was his idea. And so that then I think leads to, Jesus will have long conversations with women because he sees them as human. And he'll... ⁓
Shannon Scott (32:28)
Yes?
huh.
Lynn (32:46)
He'll engage with them. He'll invite them into the conversation, give them a seat at the table, whatever metaphor you want to use. So that is what I would say would be distinctive of Jesus. And then secondly, and related, Jesus ⁓ sees the lowly, right? He seeks out those that society has cast aside. And it's especially difficult
Shannon Scott (33:07)
Yeah.
Lynn (33:14)
⁓ as women, if you're both a woman and poor, a woman ⁓ with an abnormality like the ⁓ woman who was bent over, you know, that Jesus healed, or the woman with the flow of blood, the hemorrhaging woman, mean, ⁓ they can be doubly invisible, and Jesus sees them. So that's how I would say Jesus' treatment of women stood out in his culture.
Shannon Scott (33:39)
Wow.
think about, you know, a lot of times what we're told about someone in scripture is so important. When know, when Sarah is described as barren, it's because we need to know that that barrenness is going to be a huge part of her story. But that that is an example of kind of the doubly invisible. ⁓ And you're right, it's those people that are especially it seems seen by God and by Jesus in the New Testament. ⁓
You know, most of the time in the conversation about can women or can't they, get all the Paul verses and what Paul said and Paul said, or Paul was clear or scripture is clear. ⁓ And before we get to the specific passages, you have made a compelling argument that Paul must have been consistent. Like our only options are Paul was completely inconsistent.
or he was consistent, meaning he wouldn't praise women specifically as his coworkers or call Junia an apostle or commend Phoebe as a deacon or minister, but then turn around and with equal gumption say, they can't speak, they can't teach, they can't lead. So how do we holistically understand the apostle Paul since he's the one that so often gets trotted out to
make our points? How do we not cherry pick our favorites or our least favorites of what he has said or written?
Lynn (35:22)
Yeah, no, that's really good. That's really good. And I also want to underline what you said about people saying, well, scripture is clear. It's self-evident. ⁓ I get really worried when people say something like that because I've yet to hear that said where they aren't conflating their opinion or interpretation of the Bible with that quote unquote clear meaning. ⁓
Shannon Scott (35:32)
Right?
Whew, that's so important.
That's so important. Scriptures clear is usually about the thing I feel really passionate about.
Lynn (35:53)
Yes.
Exactly.
Yeah. Now, can we say that the gospel message is clear? Absolutely. And so many different ways the Bible tells us that Jesus is Lord and Savior, that his death and resurrection have saved us, that sin is defeated. But that's not because I look at one particular verse and draw everything from that. It's the whole storyline that is consistent and
reinforces that.
The, I think the other thing to keep in mind is that when we look at Paul's letters then, I mean, so yeah, let me just, scripture is very clear about who Jesus is, who God is, the metas narrative ⁓ of the story of salvation as God writes it in his word. ⁓ But it is also the case.
or and it is also the case that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and some Aramaic and the New Testament is in Greek and for the New Testament was 2000 years ago and you know they didn't have trains, planes and automobiles and representative democracy and not to say nothing of iPhones that's right or education K through 12 ⁓ or I mean just all the kinds of things that
Shannon Scott (37:18)
Yes, cell phones and...
Lynn (37:30)
we assume as a culture and thus, and I mean, we have the scientific method, which was not a part of their, how they saw the world. And one is not right and the other wrong. It's just our reality. And God in His infinite wisdom and mercy can speak to each and every culture right where they're at. And so that's kind of a long winded intro to say that when we look then at Paul's letters,
We have to remember that they're letters. They're what we can call occasional documents. They are generated by an occasion, a specific situation that Paul addresses. And the people that receive his letter, they know most of that context, but you and I, we have to recreate it. And you know, it's not easy to put yourself back 2000 years in time and
Shannon Scott (38:19)
Right.
Lynn (38:26)
there you are in Corinth or there you are in Ephesus or Philippi or one of those cities. So there really needs to be some humility in interpreting what Paul does. And then I would say, we also want to think of these letters as part of Paul's story and not some like propositional truth, because that's another thing when people say it's clear.
They often mean it's clear like a stop sign means stop. ⁓ But rarely is human communication done at that level. We're always making references. are understanding tacit dimensions of our communication. ⁓ don't, you know, you've been married for a while. I've been married for a while. Sometimes I don't need to finish my sentence and I've communicated clearly because
Shannon Scott (38:59)
Yeah.
Right?
Yes.
Lynn (39:23)
We're all on
the same page here. And that's just how humans function. there's not really, language is not like a stop sign. You know, it's, it's complex and thus we have to understand the context and we have to recognize that Paul, when he writes a letter, he's describing his story at that point and entering into his congregations story.
And so seeing these letters from the standpoint of narrative rather than propositional truth, I think really helps. And along those same lines, reading the book of Acts. So when I read first and second Corinthians, I'm also going to read Acts 18. And I'm going to discover that Priscilla and Aquila meet Paul. The three of them ⁓ do the same job as tent makers or leather workers.
Um, and they, um, they're, they're a ministry team. And we know from the last couple of verses of chapter 18, that in Acts, that Priscilla and Aquila go to Ephesus. Paul doesn't stay in Ephesus, but they do. And they form a house church there. And they meet another one of Paul's coworkers, Apollos, who
needs a little bit of polishing up his theology. And so rather than do some kind of public ⁓ teaching that could seem heavy-handed, they talk with him in a more private space. mean, ⁓
The church is in their house anyway. So we want to understand that, you know, it's not like they're going to a church building and then doing something else in their home. Everything is happening in their home, but they're going to talk with Apollos, ⁓ Priscilla and Aquila are teaching Apollos. So when I think of this couple who Paul praises then ⁓ in Romans 16,
as a couple who has made such an impact in the church in Corinth, in Ephesus, in one of Paul's named coworkers, Apollo's life. I think, okay, that's my starting point, right? That's, or these coworkers, Yodia and Syntyche in Philippians. think, okay, that's my starting point. These women's names are written in the book of life.
their impact is so important in the Philippian church that Paul is encouraging them to work out whatever their difference is. And when you start adding up, and you mentioned some of the other names, right? When you start adding all those up, I think Paul has a team of men and women who women are doing theology, they're doing church work, organizational work, maybe
⁓ financial work. don't know if Yodhi and Sintiqi, for example, were part of the gift that Epaphroditus took to Paul when Paul was in prison. I mean, there, there's so much going on and the women are just doing it. There's no, there's no segregation, if you will, Priscilla doing, ⁓ the ladies Bible study and Aquila doing the men's Bible study. ⁓
Shannon Scott (42:47)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn (43:09)
So, you I think that I start with that and then I will go to some of the passages that seem ⁓ harder to understand, but I always have in mind like in first Timothy two.
Timothy is an Ephesus. He might have actually known Priscilla and Aquila. It may be that he went out with Priscilla for coffee to, like Apollos, glean her ⁓ theology and become even ⁓ stronger in his theological understanding. Like, I keep that in mind.
as I think about how he would have received Paul's letter, including one Tim too, because they have to match. They have to be consistent. Paul isn't going to say one thing to Timothy having presented another thing to Yodie and Syntyche.
Shannon Scott (44:15)
Well, and it's fascinating to think about in the same way that we reading this in, let's call it 2026, have to put ourselves back there to start understanding it. Paul could not have conceived of a world like we are currently living in. And I would imagine Holy Spirit inspired words or not. He's not thinking.
People are going to be quoting this and using it thousands of years from now to make their points. ⁓ I just, it's fascinating to get granular with it and kind of take it out of the thing we've always heard or the sound bites we've always heard and think, yes, him writing a prescription forever, he would not have been thinking this letter is even going that far.
Lynn (44:43)
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I would say that ⁓ it, yeah, it's so tricky, isn't it? Because it is the eternal word of God, right? So it always speaks each generation. But the, ⁓ but it is also particular to Ephesus in the first century, or Corinth in the first century, whichever one we're looking at. And so you're absolutely right. Paul would never have imagined that we'd be talking about him.
Shannon Scott (45:23)
Right, right.
Right.
Lynn (45:41)
on a podcast. So that part is absolutely true. You know, and I think that's why, yeah, and I think that's why so often Paul speaks in what can sometimes be for me like frustrating generalities, you know, ⁓ walk in the spirit, be filled with the spirit, bear the fruit of the spirit. ⁓ Don't be angry. You know, like these ⁓
Shannon Scott (45:44)
He wouldn't have known what a podcast was. Well. ⁓
Lynn (46:10)
clothe yourself with Christ, these beautiful metaphors that sometimes it's hard to get traction. Whereas if he says, drink a little wine for your stomach, Timothy, it's like, ⁓ okay, like that, that I can run with. I can ask the question, is that two ounces or four ounces? Is it grape juice or fermented? Is it, you know, and we start ⁓ in a way because we want to be faithful, but we also want to know if we get it right.
Shannon Scott (46:29)
Right?
Yeah.
Lynn (46:41)
And
I think Paul resists that temptation to figure it out for ourselves, figure it out for us and let us walk that walk of discipleship because he knows that we are also equipped to do so. Yet because he's writing letters and there are questions that come up or they're like real people that are in these congregations that, you know, have questions for Paul. We know that, for example, in first Corinthians,
chapter seven, now to matters about which you wrote. Paul received questions from them, so he's responding. ⁓ it's like you have to keep in tension the fact that he's going to talk about, meet sacrifice to idols, something that you and I absolutely don't worry about. On our list of worries, you don't find it. But it was on the top of the list of worries. I mean, we find the same thing mentioned in
Shannon Scott (47:30)
Right.
Yes.
Lynn (47:40)
book of Revelation. The idea of meat sacrifice to idols and the ⁓ pervasiveness of idolatry in the earliest generations of the church as these Gentiles come in and they have to leave their ⁓ idol worship behind and embrace the one true God. And that's not a simple process at one level because
Pagan practices were so deeply embedded in just how they did their lives. So I think, you know what, but Paul has to answer that question because he's a pastor, you know? ⁓ so just like my husband's church had to answer, you watch football or not on Sunday? You know, not Paul's question, but you know, their question. So I feel like we try and hold those intention and that's why we...
Shannon Scott (48:29)
Yes.
Yes.
Lynn (48:36)
have to keep going back to this meta-narrative of God's salvation plan. And in the case of women, we have to continually remind ourselves that men and women both equally are made in the image and likeness of God. And when we see how the church then lived that out in these narratives like I've sketched or like Nimphah and the church that meets in her house, I mean, when we just see that women are doing all these things,
They can't be exceptions to the rule. You know, there's too many of them. They are what's going on. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (49:10)
Hmm.
I told this story in the intro, but just for the purposes of this conversation, the first time that I spoke at our church that wasn't a Mother's Day ⁓ at the church I was just on staff at where we've done kerygma. ⁓ The first time that it wasn't a Mother's Day, for some reason Mother's Day gets a pass, at least I find.
But on the first Sunday that it wasn't, I finished, I walked off the platform and the first person that came up to me was a gentleman. And he was very agitated. And I said, hey, what can I help you with? What's going on? And he just said, I don't understand what you just did. Why did you think you could do that?
You're not supposed to do that. I don't know how to explain this to my parents They're visiting today and then he said and I really don't know how to explain that I was convicted by it and it was a real he was just having like a ⁓ fracture in real time of You're in sin to even be teaching
Lynn (50:15)
Wow. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
Shannon Scott (50:24)
So how is it possible that I felt conviction from it and why, how am I going to explain this to my parents? And that really, that was probably five years ago now. And that has just kind of sat with me as I've just dug deeper and deeper and deeper into this. So Let's talk specifically about the passages. ⁓ You talked about first Timothy two women should learn in silence and not teach or have authority over men. So where do we start?
Lynn (50:37)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Scott (50:54)
Because for many, many women, this is the scripture that gets, I would even say, weaponized against calling. So as people who I've said, I don't ever want to be an I am woman, hear me roar person. This is not about give me my place and my rights and my whatever, but it's how do we understand? What is the temperate approach to understanding things like 1 Timothy 2?
Lynn (50:56)
you
Yeah, yeah. Well, it helps if you know Greek, ⁓ which ⁓ often people on either side of the conversation don't know. But This is one of places where ⁓ understanding that there's some strange words in here, I think at the very least should ⁓ make us a bit more modest.
in what we're claiming. And then the second thing, and this is a bit ⁓ cheeky to answer, but to talk about 1 Tim 2, you have to start at the beginning, which is 1 Tim 1 and verse 3. After Paul is ⁓ finished greeting Timothy, he then jumps right into ⁓ talking about these false teachers. And throughout 1 Timothy, it's all about false teachers and the dangers
Shannon Scott (52:02)
Yes
Lynn (52:19)
of that. And these false teachers have certain characteristics that are listed in chapter one that are important to understand as we then build a picture of what are the fallacies that the church is falling into, what do they need to be reminded of to keep them on the
you know, the godly pathway. So it really is very important to read the whole letter and especially start at the beginning and don't start at ⁓ one Tim to 11. That's where people usually start is they feel like, well, this is just, you know, a separate topic. But Paul has just even in verse eight above that has talked about the things that men are not doing well. In fact, up through to eight, ⁓
Shannon Scott (53:04)
Let's go.
Lynn (53:16)
It's mainly the men that he's really frustrated with. I'm sure there are women that are doing some things here too, but he's really focused, even names a couple of men. And so this is a, feel bad for Timothy as a pastor. He's got a lot on his plate right here. Maybe some big egos. This is a really tough spot. And so Paul is saying, you know, make sure these men, they lift holy hands in prayer, you know, and not,
Shannon Scott (53:33)
Mm.
Lynn (53:46)
not in anger. Yeah, so there's a lot of friction. I think that's really important to know. In other words, this is dysfunctional. And in the midst of this, how do we fix it? How do we fix this dysfunction? And so Paul is laying out things like live a quiet life, ⁓ pursue godliness. That's the beginning of chapter two. And women should also practice godliness and don't
Shannon Scott (53:56)
Hahaha.
Lynn (54:15)
flaunt wealth and men don't assert your social rights or, you know, be angry with others and all that. So when we get to ⁓ verse 11 of chapter two, in the English translation, it often reads, let a woman learn in quietness. And we assume that women are already learning and it's just that they're doing it in a...
in a more loud way and they need to do it in a more quiet way. But the verb here is actually in a command form. It's in an imperative. I insist that women learn.
Well, right away then it's like, ⁓ so they're not learning in K through 12? They're not learning in their private Christian school? ⁓ No, in fact, they're not. The only place that these Gentiles who would have come to Christ would ⁓ hear ⁓ the gospel message would be at church. ⁓ But there's not, like the synagogue had regular, they have the,
Shannon Scott (55:03)
Right, right.
Lynn (55:25)
Sabbath so regularly the ⁓ law of Moses is read every Shabbat, but they're also going to get together for the festivals and for celebrations and you know, the Jewish culture is just going to be saturated with the word and then you have these Gentiles come in and they don't know and there's no ⁓ Analog to the kind of Jewish education For Gentiles moreover women
this is kind of the patriarchy coming out, broadly speaking, in the culture. Women generally don't have the educational opportunities that men do. And so it's not going to be as easy. Timothy could gather a bunch of guys, go to Starbucks, and they just kind of open the last chapters of Deuteronomy. I don't know. That's anachronistic. ⁓ But there's an easier way for him
Shannon Scott (56:19)
Yeah.
Lynn (56:25)
to teach the ⁓ men. And frankly, a lot of the men are at this point unteachable. They think they are teachers. And Paul's saying they're not, they're not teachers. They pretend to be, they wanna be, but they're not. Whereas the women, Timothy has to figure out a way to teach them. And that's why it's a command. ⁓ I command that ⁓ women learn. Women need to learn.
Now they learn in silence, but that language is used earlier in chapter two about like just how you do your life. And it's a way, ⁓ you could almost say I want them ⁓ to learn in an environment where they can learn. ⁓ You know, when we send our kids to school, we want to make sure they have sharpened pencils and paper and textbooks. We want them equipped. Well, in the ancient world, one of the ways you equip a classroom is that everyone is quiet.
Shannon Scott (57:01)
Right.
Lynn (57:23)
and they're listening to the teacher. So right out of the gate in verse 11, ⁓ we can get sidetracked if we think that the point is that women are to be silent. That's not the point. The point is that they need to be trained. Then Paul gets into, I'm not ⁓ permitting, and that's
technically how the verb should be translated because it's not an imperative. It's just your regular indicative. I am not permitting a woman. The, ⁓ The translations in English often have, I do not permit as though it's like this 11th commandment, but that's not the, it's not, ⁓ that's not the verb tense. So you would have to argue that the verb itself within its meaning,
functioned like a command, like the verb ought. Later, well, in another letter in Ephesians chapter five, three times Paul commands husbands to love their wives. Twice with the verb to love in command form and once with the verb ought and then to love, the infinitive of love. So the verb ought, I mean, we know that, like it just, meaning is command.
But I am permitting or I am not permitting that's it is when you look at it occurs maybe 15, 17 times elsewhere in the New Testament. ⁓ it tends to be used in the context where someone has asked a question and you are responding to it. Okay, given these parameters, here's what I'd suggest. I permit it or I don't permit it.
So there's a contingency and we begin to see, okay, The point that Paul's making is that women need to learn, they need to be educated. But until they're educated, I don't think they should be teaching. Fair enough. then we get, you know, I mean, that's, And it bothers me when uh some people say, well, ⁓
Shannon Scott (59:32)
Fair enough.
Lynn (59:42)
they're just not allowed to teach men, but they can teach women and children. And I think, So it's okay for one woman who doesn't know the gospel well to teach incorrectly to another woman, just so long as she doesn't teach it to a man? I There's just no way that Paul would put up with that. He would never want that. ⁓ He is so concerned that the gospel, the true gospel is spoken accurately.
Shannon Scott (1:00:02)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lynn (1:00:12)
There's no way he'd say, it doesn't matter if women learn it, you know, only partially or sort of half right. or kids for heaven's sakes. No, of course we want to raise the children up properly from the very beginning. ⁓ so anyway, the, the teach part is I think related to the learn. They need to learn first, then they can teach. And then there's this word have authority over or dominate or whatever. And it's a word. ⁓
It's in the it's a verb often to That we don't find Anywhere else in the new testament and we don't find used but a handful of times in the wider culture of paul's day later centuries second third century, it's used more we have more evidence of it use but
I mean, we have a lot of material, written material from the time, first century, first century BC, inscriptions, documents, all kinds of stuff. And we truly just have a handful of times. So it's a strange verb. And I don't know, this is a question I'm gonna have to ask Paul. Why did you pick this verb? If it's so strange to us and we know, I mean, you didn't use it any other time.
Is this something related to what's going on specifically in Ephesus? I think it must be, right? Something's going on in Ephesus. ⁓ Maybe we'll find the verb used in like an inscription at some point ⁓ as archaeology continues. I don't know. But that's the question we should ask is why is he using this verb that he never uses elsewhere?
Shannon Scott (1:01:35)
Right.
Yeah.
Lynn (1:02:00)
And
especially, why would he use a verb like this if he is wanting to give a for all time command about all women doing no teaching of men forever and ever? Like it's not the clear meaning of the text. Let me just put it that way. is honestly, and any scholar, any New Testament scholar is going to admit,
Shannon Scott (1:02:18)
Right.
Yeah.
Lynn (1:02:30)
that this is a hard verb to understand. And so to hang so much, so much on this verb is, frankly, it's not good exegesis. So anyway, that...
Shannon Scott (1:02:47)
Well, and
it's, it's, you know, I've heard Christie McClellan say before, I think it was her. want to attribute it correctly, but if your theological position hinges on a different class or gender being lower than you, it's already a problem from a from, from the Imago day standpoint. ⁓ and
Lynn (1:03:09)
It really is.
Shannon Scott (1:03:15)
And I'm with you, it's the...
It's the thing we don't do with the rest of scripture that for some reason we do with this particular. There are a few other pet things that cause this, but there's not many other topics that so that provide such a wide chasm between camps of, I would say evangelicals. And I'd love if you would just speak to a little bit.
This is actually a secondary doctrinal issue, meaning we're going to be in eternity standing in the new heaven and new earth with shoulder to shoulder with people who held the literal opposite understanding doctrinally of this point, because it's not a salvific issue. This is not as Jesus Christ, the son of God and the only way. So how do we...
how do we appropriately and ⁓ in a way that adorns the gospel navigate such tricky waters when we can so vehemently disagree on something? mean, entire churches split over this issue, entire Christian arms of publishing houses split over this issue, certainly denominations split over this. How do we...
tackle this particular secondary doctrinal issue well.
Lynn (1:04:47)
Well, I think not everyone sees it secondary. So I think that's the first thing to note. ⁓ There are some who.
Shannon Scott (1:04:53)
Meaning
there are people who would say, you're not actually going to be in heaven if you think women can teach.
Lynn (1:05:04)
⁓ I've never heard it stated specifically like that. How they argue it, as I understand it, is they have the doctrine of inerrancy. And you do need to believe that the Bible is the true word of God. Well, I hold that. But some people would say, yeah, but Lynn, you think it's okay for women to teach men. Therefore, you cannot.
Shannon Scott (1:05:25)
Sure.
Lynn (1:05:33)
hold to the inerrancy of Scripture because Scripture clearly says, and then, you know, we're on this doom loop, you know. ⁓ But the, so I think there are some, if you connect your interpretation of one, Tim two with the doctrine of inerrancy, then it's very difficult to move the conversation forward because now you're actually tying your interpretation to what the word of God is.
Shannon Scott (1:05:38)
Right, right. It's a circle. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
Lynn (1:06:02)
⁓ So
I would say that that's one ⁓ issue. Then I would say also, again, I'm not disagreeing with you in what you're saying at all, but as you were talking, it occurred to me in the gospel, in the gospel of Matthew, Jesus will welcome his followers and he will say, when I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. And when I was hungry, you gave me some food.
Shannon Scott (1:06:29)
Yeah.
Lynn (1:06:32)
in other words, and they would say, well, when did we see you in prison and go visit you? Like, they're surprised. But what Jesus is showing us here is that their life was the life of the gospel. They saw the vulnerable and the downtrodden, and they cared about the dignity of each person, just as Jesus did. So while I...
Shannon Scott (1:06:36)
Right, right.
Yeah.
Lynn (1:07:01)
I do believe that ⁓ we will have doctrinal differences like we do with baptism, sprinkle or dunk, adult or baby. We have those. ⁓ It's so important that as we differ in those things, we never ⁓ denigrate
Shannon Scott (1:07:10)
Yeah. And communion. Yeah, yeah.
Lynn (1:07:26)
the individual who disagrees with us. And this is where I would say a lot of women, including your pain, my pain, we come into this and we realize actually we've been, we've been told we're bad, that it's shameful to want to teach, that it's sinful, like the example you just used to, ⁓ to do that, which is different than saying, I have a difference of opinion. I feel strongly that you shouldn't do it, but
Shannon Scott (1:07:26)
Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
That's true.
Lynn (1:07:55)
that to take the next step and say that you're sinning in that, I think is where the conversations then just become so hard because now it's really personal. But it is also really personal for men. I think men have way more to lose than women. This is not a women's issue. This is a man's issue. If men have understood being a man, being male, being masculine,
Shannon Scott (1:08:08)
Yeah.
Lynn (1:08:25)
as being something other than a woman and then defining what that other is, then you're already at opposites rather than complementary and working together. ⁓ I men and women are not the same. Male and female are not the same. I wouldn't want to argue that at all, but they're not opposite. Aristotle thought they were opposite and the woman is the privation
Shannon Scott (1:08:45)
Right.
Lynn (1:08:54)
of man, right? So it's not just opposite, like on the color wheel, you have colors that are opposite each other, but there's a value laid in there. And that I think is what makes this conversation really hard. I think as you talk with, let's say a ⁓ man, a pastor who wants to honor scripture and sees, is more convinced with the complementarian,
position, ⁓ I think I would just enjoy talking with him about how he understands his own sense as a man and what that might mean. does his definition of being a man impact how I want to define myself as a woman? And I think that might be then a helpful way to kind of move forward. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (1:09:44)
Hmm.
Wow.
Yeah, to be and to be able, as I said, to be measured and to you're right. You're right, though. It's a point well made that if if your premise if your starting point is you're in sin or you're bad or you should be ashamed for teaching versus
I believe there's room for us to think the Bible is saying two different things without me coming against the image of God in you. That's a really good distinction that I'm glad that you made. And I don't want to skate past that there is no way this hasn't cost you something to do this work. I mean, you were to, I remember you have said that you were told you should not write about
Lynn (1:10:31)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (1:10:38)
women in the church until after you had tenure just because it was too niche of a topic which I thought was very interesting versus half of humanity. ⁓ So what has the cost been because you've gone before so many of us and made a way for us to be able to even think and wrestle in a safe space with this. What has the cost been for you as you've done this work?
Lynn (1:10:49)
Mm-hmm.
you
I think the, ⁓
Well, it's hard to know because I ⁓ didn't have a parallel life where I didn't have the cost. I don't know. ⁓ I would say there is a lot of ⁓ insecurity, ⁓ a lot of hurt. But the thing is, I never doubted that I couldn't be, as we would say now, on the platform or on the stage. ⁓
I never thought of myself as inferior to my male colleagues. mean, a lot of them knew more because I would say starting out in my career, but ⁓ I think so. So I didn't question, should I really be doing this? Because I'm a woman. I shouldn't. Should I really be doing this? It was more just a frustration of being insulted or ⁓
Shannon Scott (1:11:52)
Yeah, yeah.
Lynn (1:12:13)
passed over or being made a token. And especially when you're a token, you realize, wow, I have to hit it out of the park because if I don't, I'm representing all women. So now there's a lot more women that are evangelical women that are doing lots of leadership and speaking and we're getting,
Shannon Scott (1:12:22)
Yeah.
Lynn (1:12:43)
I shouldn't say lots more, ⁓ depends on where you are. But I have more women ⁓ doing things with me than I did starting out. what's, ⁓ but I think the thing that just kept me going is I love doing it. I love studying the word. I love to teach. I love to be in a learning community. and you know, I, and if
the learning community happens to be mostly men. Okay, we're all just talking about the Bible. So I think it's because I love it so much that I would get back on the horse. ⁓ But I won't lie that there were times, like ⁓ one time was when I first started speaking and they invited me, somebody invited me to this group and there were a couple of real heavy hitters in this ⁓ pastors conference that they were doing or some kind of conference.
Including Craig Evans a real hero of mine historical Jesus guy genius ⁓ anyway, ⁓ I I was Coming into the conference late and then I was able to change my ticket so that I got there when everybody else did and we had dinner ⁓ and then we were gonna do a Talk on the stage like a panel discussion. Great. So we're
All the speakers are in this circular table and ⁓ the person running the conferences talking about what we're gonna do. And I'm not mentioned at all as being on the stage at all.
So I can start to see even some of my colleagues are like, ⁓ yeah, like, is Lynn not gonna be part of this? So there's a bit of awkwardness, right? So the meeting's done and I talk with the person out in the hall privately, like Priscilla did, ⁓ and said, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna make a big fuss or anything like that, but I just want you to know that this is really awkward.
All my male peers are going to be up there and I'm not up there. ⁓ really sorry. You know, that was the old schedule. Now that you're here, we'll do that. Okay, great. So then they start wiring us up. do it individually. I'm on the stage and I get fitted for the wire. And of course, you know, lapel mics only, you know, even our microphones are designed for men's clothing. So anyway, we're starting to get that done. And the fellow who's miking me up, there's nobody else in the
Shannon Scott (1:15:15)
Uh-huh.
Right.
Lynn (1:15:25)
the auditorium and he kind of laughs because we had to adjust some things and then he says, yeah, you know, it's just kind of like Sesame Street, you know, how like that song, one of these things is not like the other.
And don't know if you know the next line, I do. One of these things just doesn't belong. Yeah, so it was very hard to go on stage after that. And I confess that I spent some time in the ladies room. Of course, I was the only one there trying to sort of cry and not cry and get myself settled again. ⁓ But I love being part of the conversation. I like to ⁓ sort of...
Shannon Scott (1:15:59)
Yes.
Lynn (1:16:05)
riff off one of the Roosevelts be the man in the arena. I'd like to be a person in the arena. I like that. ⁓ But yeah, that ⁓ hasn't always been great.
Shannon Scott (1:16:10)
Yes.
No, and there's just a, there's a real factor that you have handled with such grace, which is you're taken more seriously, the more degrees and study and tenure and legacy you can show. And so I'd love for you to speak to that. So for the woman who's listening, who maybe is starting to see like a crack open up in this window that's always been shut.
who feels called to teach or to lead, but she's been told her entire life she can't. What would you say to her about maybe her just next right step toward pursuing what God's put in her? And I love that you leadership without apology is one of your things. How would you counsel her to take the next step without apology?
Lynn (1:17:15)
Yeah. Well, I think you're going to have to have tenacity. So pick, pick your, I hate to say battle because I don't want it to be that strong, but you have to pick what you want and then be tenacious in pursuing it. And if it's, you know, check your church bylaws. So for example, I, one point I wanted to be on the teaching team for the adult Sunday school class, mixed class.
And initially the church said yes. And then somebody on the teaching team said, no, you know, we don't want a woman on. And so the pastor came back to me and said, sorry, you can't be on it. And I said, well, that's just, it's not acceptable. It's not in our bylaws. You said I could. So then they started throwing up some, you know, well, you didn't come every Sunday and summer. I was in the, I was doing the kindergarten Sunday school class. I was here. I just wasn't in your class because I was taking care of your kids.
Shannon Scott (1:18:15)
As is my role, apparently.
Lynn (1:18:15)
Anyway, ⁓ you know, but I thought I'm fighting this,
you know, I'm fighting this. It's wrong. I'm qualified and, ⁓ you know, they don't have a leg to stand on. I think, ⁓ they didn't know it at the time, but I also knew we were moving out of the area. So I thought, yeah, I can't actually die on this Hill because I'm leaving for a totally different reason. ⁓ but anyway, but I, but you have to be tenacious and, ⁓ I would say.
Shannon Scott (1:18:36)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lynn (1:18:45)
⁓ Get a group of supporters around you, two or three. You need people to cheer you on because there's gonna be a fight. As Paul says to the Ephesians, our battle is not against flesh and blood. It's against powers and principalities. And Satan loves it that half the population continue to be told you don't have the right to preach the gospel.
That really suits him. He doesn't want ⁓ women to use their ⁓ full range of gifts. So expect battle and pushback. Yeah. So I would say, yeah, be tenacious. I think it might help. I can sometimes be maybe a little ornery.
I don't know, but you know what I mean? Like you kind of got to be like, I'm just not taking this anymore. The Rosa park, I'm not getting up. I'm not, you know, I'm not standing up. I'm going to sit. So I think you need to do that. And obviously you can do that respectfully, but you can hold your ground. so that's, that, and, and I would say be open to where God wants you to serve.
Shannon Scott (1:19:47)
Yeah, thick skin. Yeah.
Lynn (1:20:13)
You may be kind of like, I don't know, I kind of, think I have this trait as a first born, I want to fix everything, but it may not be your calling to fix the place that you're in right now. ⁓ And so just give yourself freedom to think outside of your current box, whatever that ⁓ or ⁓ space is. I don't necessarily want to say box, but just what your space is now. ⁓ There may be different opportunities if you
Shannon Scott (1:20:24)
Yeah, that's good.
Lynn (1:20:44)
widen the lens a little bit.
Shannon Scott (1:20:48)
That's so encouraging. For the women who are listening, maybe they've just kind of wondered. They don't actually ever have a scenario where they feel called to teach or speak, but have just wondered what scripture says and how to think of themselves. When we see this conflict play out in public, especially on social media, it can be unsettling. I remember a very, very well-known
reformed theologian who was really disparaging about another female Bible teacher from a platform at a conference. it just, think all females everywhere just kind of felt like, what are we doing within the body of believers? We seem to be shooting our own. ⁓ So if you could leave our listeners with one thing.
One truth, one thing you would want them to walk away with about how God sees women, how he's created them, what he's called them to in the earth, what would it be just by way of encouragement?
Lynn (1:21:58)
I would encourage them to own, to let it sink deep in their bones.
the truth of the Imago Dei. ⁓ When you look at Genesis 1, God said, let us make humanity in our image. And in the image and likeness, he created male and female. And so that, there is no hierarchy in the creation of Adam and Eve, nor does 1 Timothy 2.
13 and 14 promote a hierarchy. Those sections that talk about Adam was formed first and then Eve are not, well, of course, I mean, you can see that in Genesis two, but not because Adam is better or that ⁓ Eve is an afterthought. In fact, probably the people in Ephesus, one of their false teachings is that they argue Eve
Shannon Scott (1:22:53)
Yeah.
Lynn (1:23:05)
was like Artemis and was born first and then ⁓ her brother Apollo was born second. In fact, so we could have an example here of like that ⁓ synchronous, syncretistic beliefs. And ⁓ the truth of the Imago Dei is not damaged by sin.
Shannon Scott (1:23:21)
Mm-hmm.
Lynn (1:23:32)
Women are not inherently more gullible, even though up through the 1980s, commentators would specifically write that the woman was deceived. That's why she doesn't teach because she is inherently more gullible. I mean, that's horrible, but that's Aristotle. That's not Genesis. That's Aristotle. If the women ever hear a disparagement,
in their intellect or any of their capabilities, their discernment, their wisdom, ⁓ as though somehow that comes from Genesis one and two. It's just wrong. comes from Aristotle. And Aristotle is not a prophet or the son of a prophet. So I think that's what I would say. Just live into that. There's so many examples.
Shannon Scott (1:24:19)
Right, right.
Lynn (1:24:28)
of wise women, prophetic women, strong women, decisive women, all through the Old and New Testament. So you are, you have a great cloud of witnesses that will be cheering you on. ⁓ But reckon who you are in God. ⁓
Shannon Scott (1:24:51)
So good. I'm actually going to ask you to send us a list of, cause I know some women will want to say, where do I start reading? How do I start learning? So I will get a list from Dr. Lin and I'll put it in the show notes so that you can go and read. That is what I have done for five years is voracious reading because number one, I love it. I love reading. love study, but number two,
Lynn (1:25:13)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (1:25:18)
We live in such a clickbait culture and in such a bite-sized culture. We
Lynn (1:25:21)
Yes. Yes.
Shannon Scott (1:25:23)
have such shortened attention spans We need our ears tickled ⁓ because they itch and scriptures clear about that but reading and understanding I've actually I've read both sides and everywhere in between of this particular issue Because I I want to be somebody who understands ⁓
Lynn (1:25:26)
you
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Shannon Scott (1:25:48)
to the best of my ability enabled by the Spirit of God, what His Word is trying to say, because as Dr. Lin said, it's still for us. It's still here, and that is in God's sovereignty and in His plan. Whether Paul knew we'd still be talking about it this much later, God did. And so there is a way that we can understand.
what God has
for us. So I'll put that link in the show notes and Dr. Lynn, just want to say on behalf of me, but also everyone listening, you have come along for such a time as this to help what remains a very, very contentious and divisive issue among the family ⁓ not be quite so scary and not feel
Lynn (1:26:15)
Thank you.
Okay.
Shannon Scott (1:26:40)
quite so unattainable in terms of understanding. So I really just want to thank you as a very grateful recipient of your hard work. ⁓ But I do have to ask you the question that I ask all my guests, because this
is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast, and we do believe what the Bible says, that God is in the process of making everything beautiful in its time.
My caveat to that is that doesn't necessarily mean we will think it's beautiful because he gets to decide what is and isn't beautiful in his estimation, but he's about redemption. He's about restoration and beauty is his idea. So with that in mind, if you could design, if Lynn Kohick's perfect, beautiful day played out from start to finish, what would that look like? And there's no
Lynn (1:27:11)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (1:27:33)
restrictions. So if you're gluten intolerant right now you don't have to be in your perfect beautiful day. If you want to time travel or hop around quickly and be there in a split second like a superhero that is possible in the perfect beautiful day. So what would it look like?
Lynn (1:27:50)
Okay. At first, when you said, is your perfect day? All I could think of was that scene in Miss Congeniality where the woman is asked, what is your perfect date? Meaning romantic date and she picks April something. don't know. Anyway. Okay. That's not where we're going with this. Okay. All right. I'll recalibrate. ⁓ yes, I think, ⁓
Shannon Scott (1:27:58)
Uh-huh.
Yes.
Yeah, 19, whatever.
Lynn (1:28:17)
Well, my perfect day would take place outside and there would be animals. I love riding horses. So part of the day I'd be riding a horse, but I'd have kitty cats around and dogs. ⁓ the, ⁓ so I'd love that it would be warm as I do not like the cold. So it would be warm outside with animals and I like being active. So ride the horse hike, maybe do some canoeing.
⁓ I'd be up early the day would start early like before the Sun came up so I could see the sunrise And the stars go out that that I would I would love and somewhere in there would need to be books So, I don't know probably an afternoon Relaxing after all that activity relaxing with books but not only books because I would have
Shannon Scott (1:28:55)
Yes.
Lynn (1:29:17)
my special, my family and friends there. Since we're outside, I wouldn't have to squeeze into a room. And in my perfect day, there would be present those who have gone before me and are with the Lord now, I'd get a chance to see them again. So that would be, yeah, I think that would be my...
Shannon Scott (1:29:26)
Yeah.
And.
Yes.
Lynn (1:29:45)
that would feel pretty wonderful.
Shannon Scott (1:29:49)
I love that. That sounds good to me too. I definitely would want the people who have gone before me. That's a great one. Nobody's ever said that yet. But yeah, I would want my dad back who's with Jesus and I would want my mom as well who's struggling with dementia. So I would want her back in her right mind for sure in the perfect, beautiful day. That's a good word. Well, Dr. Lynn, thank you. ⁓ I know you probably talk about this all the time and
Lynn (1:29:58)
Huh.
Yes.
Shannon Scott (1:30:18)
I just want you to know it continues to amaze those of us who are in the beginning of our learning journey. So thank you for the ways that you illuminate scripture for us.
Lynn (1:30:26)
⁓
well, it's it's my joy. I mean, it I love talking about it each time I do. I think new things, your questions bring new ideas to mind, your ⁓ thoughts continue the learning. mean, it's we're all in this together and growing hopefully into the an ever increasing glory ⁓ towards ⁓
Shannon Scott (1:30:53)
Yes.
Lynn (1:30:57)
Lord Jesus. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Shannon Scott (1:30:59)
Well, thank
you, Dr. Lynn. Thank you, listeners and viewers. If you're not watching this on YouTube, go to YouTube and watch it so you can see facial expressions, which are so helpful. I will put all of the information about where you can be finding and following Dr. Lynn, as well as all of the wonderful things she's part of, her podcast, the Center for Women in Leadership, all of the
The visual museum, you do not want to miss the visual museum. So I'll put all those links in the show notes along with Dr. Lynn's suggested next steps for a reading list for you if you want to go deeper in this topic. And do not forget that everywhere you look, God is making everything beautiful and that includes you. And we will see you next time.
Lynn (1:31:46)
Yeah.