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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016. Sonia is now the founder of EverBlume, a digital tool that offers a unique approach to alcohol recovery support.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Her online platform EverBlume launched in February 2023, and was featured in Recovery Today Magazine and deemed an ‘essential sobriety resource’ by the FemTech Insider.
The company champions self-improvement and mindful sobriety, with support groups designed by and for women struggling with alcohol.
So how can EverBlume help you meet your sober community? By offering deeply personalized support. Members get matched based on their profiles and life experiences, and take part in small group sessions (max. 16 people). In your support group, you will meet like-minded women, discuss your experiences, and gain confidence, knowing you can rely on your peers in times of need.
Whether you identify as a binge drinker, someone who developed a habit during the Covid-19 pandemic, a high-functioning alcoholic, or an anxious person using alcohol to self-soothe… There is a support group for you!
Current EverBlume members have praised the company’s unique approach to alcohol detox. “No one is judging me for not being sure I want to be sober for the rest of my life” ; “I felt so heard and understood and today I woke up feeling empowered to make the change in my life”.
Feeling inspired? Learn more about the EverBlume sobriety community at joineverblume.com, or simply listen to Sisters In Sobriety.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and you're listening to sisters in sobriety. [00:01:00] Thanks for being here. I'm Sonia and I'm with my sister in sobriety. Actually, my sister in law, Kathleen. Kathleen, how are you doing today?
[00:01:07] Kathleen: I am doing really, really well, actually. Yeah, I'm doing well. How are you?
[00:01:12] Sonia: I'm good. it was Memorial day yesterday, so I had a holiday and I'm really excited To talk today about something that we've talked about before, but I don't think people talk about a lot in recovery and that is the pink cloud and navigating what happens after which can sometimes be sobriety fatigue.
[00:01:37] Sonia: And so. For people who don't know the pink cloud is that initial euphoric phase of sobriety where everything feels exciting and new and it's a time when you're super hopeful and your new sober future seems bright and you're experiencing newfound clarity and joy and that can be really uplifting and for me [00:02:00] after drinking for decades it was It's a surreal feeling, but we want to talk about what happens when the clouds start to dissipate.
[00:02:08] Sonia: So when that initial excitement wears off and reality sets in, a lot of us face what's known as sobriety fatigue as we continue to navigate our recovery journey. So when the idea of never drinking again seems overwhelming and the idea of always having to find new coping mechanisms seems exhausting.
[00:02:29] Kathleen: In this episode, we'll be discussing what the pink cloud phase is, how to recognize it, and why it's important to understand its temporary nature. We're also going to delve into sobriety fatigue, exploring its causes, its signs and symptoms, and most importantly, strategies for coping and overcoming.
[00:02:48] Kathleen: Sobriety fatigue. Our goal is to provide you with insights, tools, and shared experiences to help you stay motivated and resilient, no matter where you are on your path to recovery.
[00:02:59] Sonia: [00:03:00] Whether you're currently riding that pink cloud or finding yourself in the midst of sobriety fatigue, this episode is for you. We'll be sharing personal stories and practical tips to help you navigate these highs and lows with grace and strength. So grab a cup of tea, get comfortable and join us as we embark on this honest and supportive conversation about the complexities of sober life.
[00:03:26] Kathleen: So Sonia, I actually didn't know what the pink cloud was when you first said it to me. Like I didn't know that term. can you tell our listeners? What exactly is the pink cloud?
[00:03:36] Sonia: Yeah, you mean you hadn't heard of it until I said it to you for this episode?
[00:03:40] Kathleen: so I knew. Cool. I knew what it was, but I didn't know the term for it. Yeah, sobriety fatigue, obviously, yes, but not the pink cloud.
[00:03:51] Sonia: yeah. So the pink cloud is a term we use in recovery circles to describe that initial period of sobriety. And you usually [00:04:00] have feelings of euphoria, excitement, and optimism. And during this phase, those newly in recovery have, you have a really heightened sense of clarity and well being. And everything feels Um, you know, it feels fresh and hopeful, your future seems bright and full of possibilities, and the phase can be super motivating, right, and affirming, partly because just not being on substances brings about positive changes in your physical health, you're clearer mentally, you feel more stable emotionally,
[00:04:31] Kathleen: hmm. Yeah, I think it's important to recognize, though, that the pink cloud is Typically temporary as the novelty of sobriety fades and the challenges of everyday life resurface, the euphoric feelings of the pink cloud can diminish, and then it can lead to what we call sobriety fatigue. So understanding the pink cloud helps people prepare for the natural ebbs and flows of the recovery journey and ensures that they are equipped to maintain their sobriety, [00:05:00] even when the initial excitement wears off.
[00:05:03] Kathleen: What, what do you think this can mean for our listeners? Yeah,
[00:05:10] Sonia: the pink cloud and the potential pitfalls and rebound fatigue that can sometimes happen after. But I also think we should enjoy the pink cloud. I mean, how often in life do you get to have that experience of joy, and also you're proud and that feeling of like wellness in your life.
[00:05:30] Sonia: So I think it's okay to embrace it while still understanding that your feelings might change over time. So more accurately, that sort of ebb and flow, and I would call it like a honeymoon period. And there's nothing wrong with enjoying that. now that you know what it means?
[00:05:48] Sonia: What is it meant for you?
[00:05:52] Kathleen: I know the term now, but I think I've experienced a pink cloud on multiple occasion, not only when I stopped using drugs, but with like [00:06:00] sugar addiction, binge eating. And I think it has meant a couple of things for me. It really taught me that the experience of that. Being in the state of sobriety can feel amazing, but like everything in life, we are in constant, constant flux and change.
[00:06:18] Kathleen: That's not a good or bad thing, but everything does change in life, as does our sobriety journey. So we evolve and so does our sobriety. What about you? What, what does the pink cloud meant? How, what is it meant to for you?
[00:06:31] Sonia: I mean, I definitely had a pink cloud, when I initially got sober, I wasn't in a program or even part of any sort of support groups or wasn't even really talking about my sobriety that much with people that were close to me. So I think my pink cloud was sort of tempered to some extent, but, I definitely had, and I still have these, like.
[00:06:53] Sonia: Moments of like just total awe, um, and gratitude for my sobriety and how [00:07:00] lucky I am. And yeah, it still takes my breath away. And I, I think I had this a couple of days ago where I'm, I feel so lucky that I was able to get out of that unhealthy pattern of, Um, I'm a big fan of drinking relatively unscathed.
[00:07:15] Sonia: especially physically. I think about that so often now. I don't know if it's because, my nieces are older and kind of of drinking age. And I think of all the things that could go wrong, right? Of all the things that could have happened to me with the risks I took. So I feel really, really grateful.
[00:07:31] Sonia: So, one pink cloud that I was really aware of was my brother's. And I know, Kathleen, you might have seen my brother during his pink cloud. But did you have your own?
[00:07:41] Kathleen: So yeah, just to address your, your brother, I realized actually preparing for this podcast that yes, I did in fact meet your brother during his pink cloud phase. and I think there's a suggestion. I don't think it's a requirement, but I think it's a suggestion in AA that you don't date for the first year of your [00:08:00] sobriety.
[00:08:00] Kathleen: And your brother was about six years old. 16 months sober when I met him, but he was definitely still in his pink clouds. So, um, we call that, Sonia and I call that the AA version of your brother. And, yeah, it's interesting. Cause like, yeah, I can really reflect back and see how he was definitely in his pink cloud.
[00:08:18] Kathleen: And I definitely had my own. So when I got sober from drugs, I felt amazing. Like my mind was so clear and I was so convinced. That I knew this was the path that I wanted to live on. I just never wanted to go back. I imagine that rehab is sort of similar in a sense that once you get sober, maybe you're experiencing the pink cloud while you're in rehab, but then you come back to your everyday life.
[00:08:49] Kathleen: And that's what happened to me. So I went from this person that. I felt so amazing. I was singing songs. I was exercising my body. I [00:09:00] didn't have an ounce of anything that would have been bad for my body in it, like junk food, anything. I was totally loving life. And then I crash landed. I mean, I really crash landed and it was hard.
[00:09:13] Kathleen: I was weepy. I was depressed. It was actually one of the darkest times in my life that came after what now I know was the pink cloud. I didn't know it at the time, but it was it was really difficult to move through because I came to these realities that Oh, I was My friend group isn't going to be the same friend group because they're drug users and everything social is around drugs and alcohol.
[00:09:36] Kathleen: I realized I wasn't happy in my job. I realized I wasn't living, in a place that was good for my mental health and I had all of these realizations and then it came to the fact like, oh, wow, I actually have to change more in my life than just, stopping using drugs. So when the pink cloud ended, it was a bit more of a crash landing for me.
[00:09:59] Kathleen: But, [00:10:00] um, but you know, I overcame, I overcame.
[00:10:03] Sonia: Wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know you had a crash, um, to your pink cloud. But yeah, I think for people who don't totally understand, I think that you and my brother were in a, he was in this pink cloud of sobriety. And then you guys were in your own like pink cloud of that beginning of the relationship feelings.
[00:10:24] Sonia: So I think you guys were like on a cloud on top of a cloud. To some
[00:10:30] Kathleen: I think so. And I mean, I think about, you know, most relationships go through a honeymoon phase, right? And it's important. recognize that that's not meant to last forever. Um, it doesn't mean that the rest of the relationship can't be good, but it's, it doesn't, it's not meant to be that way forever.
[00:10:50] Kathleen: That's a lot of like hormones and serotonin and dopamine going on in your brain, and that's, [00:11:00] it's not meant to last forever, and that's totally okay. Mm
[00:11:04] Sonia: to like initial stages of sobriety are about like your dopamine regulating right and getting back to a baseline. So what are some of the feelings associated with the pink cloud and why does it happen.
[00:11:18] Kathleen: So the pink cloud, is often marked by feelings of euphoria and optimism and heightened energy. And so you, you might feel in the early stages of recovery, like, Oh, my gosh, I have so much energy. There's so much more I can do. So this can vary, though, in length of time. So we're going to talk about that a little bit later and how long the pink cloud can last.
[00:11:41] Kathleen: but someone might say, oh, they're feeling really happy or they have new found hope and, they just have mental clarity and it, it happens for a few reasons, but one of the reasons that happens is because the body is actually detoxifying from substances and it's leading you to have better physical health and mental clarity, but there's also psychological [00:12:00] relief.
[00:12:00] Kathleen: from addiction. and so, so people can feel just relief in their mind, relief in their emotions. And people can feel also a renewed sense of purpose that contributes to their, their positive outlook. And that all of those things encompass the pink cloud.
[00:12:18] Kathleen: How long does the pink cloud typically last?
[00:12:21] Sonia: Yeah, so like you said with my brother, it did last longer than a year. And I've worked with people and I've known people where it's anywhere between a few weeks to usually around a year. And so the short term pink cloud, I would say, is a few weeks to a few months. In that sort of stage, I think you feel a huge sense of relief and happiness about your alcohol free life.
[00:12:46] Sonia: And, you automatically experience improved physical health energy, and these can really lead to a great like sense of hope. I think longer term is a few months to a year. And [00:13:00] that longer period is really good because it can help you sustain that motivation and commitment. to sobriety, which is, so important at the beginning.
[00:13:08] Sonia: And I also think it's really crucial to remain grounded, though, during this period and prepare for those inevitable challenges that are ahead once those feelings start to wane can the pink cloud be misleading for someone who's new to sobriety?
[00:13:25] Kathleen: Yes, usually the pink cloud can be definitely misleading because, it can lead to a false sense of security. It can lead to overconfidence and then neglect of recovery activities. So, Someone in the pink cloud may be like, I feel so amazing. I'm never going back to drinking. I got this. I don't need to pay attention to the recovery process.
[00:13:49] Kathleen: I don't need to do the things. I'm good. And then when the initial high fades. People may feel pretty disillusioned, disappointed, [00:14:00] and there's a really an increased risk of having a slip at that point in their sobriety. So it is really important to understand that the phase is temporary and that it is still important to maintain recovery practices and have support for long term sobriety.
[00:14:17] Kathleen: Sonia, how, how can the pink cloud affect someone's motivation and their outlook on recovery?
[00:14:24] Sonia: Yeah, I think it's, it's what you said. I think that in some situations, the pink cloud can give the impression that sobriety, isn't that hard. And for some people, yeah, it's not that hard. But I think that, The benefits will always continually outweigh the negatives, right? And objectively waking up sober on New Year's Day is always going to be preferable to waking up, with a hangover.
[00:14:51] Sonia: But there are moments in time where you're. to feel like othered, and you're the only one who doesn't drink [00:15:00] and, where you question like, why can't I be a normal drinker? And to someone who hasn't had a problem, it's hard for them to imagine that sort of push and pull of emotions. And so I think, yeah, when we're talking about the pink cloud, we just want to make sure we stay grounded and understand that.
[00:15:18] Sonia: Sorority is one day at a time, and it's a commitment, it's a lifelong commitment, and there are still going to be hard days.
[00:15:26] Kathleen: How, how do you think the pink cloud can impact relationships with other people?
[00:15:33] Sonia: Yeah, so I have some experience with this and you feel really positive and excited about your sobriety and your future. And so you may want to engage more with friends and be more social and share this like newfound optimism and energy and sort of new version of yourself. Um, and it might help you be more communicative, and it may strengthen your relationships.
[00:15:58] Sonia: I think also you can tend [00:16:00] towards over optimism, or I've heard you say like toxic positivity before, where you just kind of expect immediate significant changes in your relationships. And I think that can lead to some disappointment if they don't happen as quickly as you hoped. I think it's especially true if you Or your loved one were convinced that your drinking was the cause of all the problems in the relationship.
[00:16:27] Sonia: And The other thing I think, and this is more to deal with, I mean, this could be with, intimate relationships or just friendships, but your expectations, I think, can also put pressure on family and friends to match your level of enthusiasm about sobriety. And so, I think you have to be careful not to judge people about their drinking.
[00:16:49] Sonia: which in some cases we are judging, but in others, that's not really our intent. And so I remember that phase pretty clearly where it was so easy to be like, that person has a drinking [00:17:00] problem. And That's not fair either. Right? And so I think that's something we should be careful of. in the pink cloud where you're just like, sobriety is amazing.
[00:17:08] Sonia: Everyone should be sober. And I think that it's not necessarily fair to the people around you. and I think also, and you touched on this, I think that it can lead to neglecting sort of the deeper, Long term work and feeling too good kind of causes you to underestimate that effort needed to maintain healthy relationships.
[00:17:30] Sonia: And I know we love talking about my divorce, but I think this happened to some extent in my marriage. I think it was like, I'm sober now. What problems could we possibly have? But our communication hadn't necessarily improved just because I remembered the conversations better. But I would say that we struggled.
[00:17:51] Sonia: With that feeling of my drinking was probably the only problem in our life, right? And so once that was [00:18:00] solved, there were no other issues. And so we did neglect any other work that had to be done.
[00:18:08] Kathleen: hmm.
[00:18:09] Sonia: can you experience any setbacks after the pink cloud phase ends?
[00:18:13] Kathleen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Setbacks, are really, really common after the pink cloud phase ends, when that euphoria fades. So the reality of long term sobriety is people like myself like I illustrated is, you know, they can face really emotional lows. They can have disappointment, sadness, anxiety, depression.
[00:18:32] Kathleen: They may have cravings for substances that will all of a sudden increase when the reality of long term sobriety sets in and. You know, the risk of having a slip can be. Higher, uh, at that point. So the realization of that hard work that we talked about for ongoing recovery can also be really daunting.
[00:18:52] Kathleen: it's not just, you know, let's just do some meditations and then we're done. it is an ongoing, [00:19:00] ongoing process to engage in recovery activities and support, in order to stay sober. How do you think knowing all this, like knowing the pink cloud phase and also the, the setbacks, how do you think you can manage your expectations during the pink cloud phase?
[00:19:18] Sonia: I think it's important to realize that the pink cloud is transient and it can help you appreciate those positive feelings, but I wouldn't expect them to last indefinitely. And I think one really important thing I know for me is like to regularly communicate with your support network. So if it's a sponsor or recovery coach or support group, they really can give you some perspective and remind you of that long term.
[00:19:48] Sonia: Nature of recovery and help you sort of navigate the highs and lows, like of the pink cloud, like the ebb and flow. But I think, you know, like we talked about in the last two episodes, I think that. Engaging [00:20:00] in mindfulness practices like meditation and journaling. These can really help you stay present and reflect on your emotions and recognize if you're having any, any unrealistic expectations.
[00:20:11] Sonia: So again, let's enjoy these feelings of the positive, the positive feelings of the pink cloud without becoming. I'm not overly focused on how things should be in the long term. I also, you know, I love a plan. I really do think it helps to establish a routine that includes activities that are, beneficial for your physical, mental, emotional health.
[00:20:34] Sonia: And I think that having That routine when the pink cloud maybe starts to fade will keep you grounded and keep you a little bit more neutral and balanced. How can someone prepare for the end of the cloud.
[00:20:51] Kathleen: Well, I think first things first is knowing that there is that pink cloud phase. I think that's important. Um, and then maintaining [00:21:00] realistic expectations about it, knowing that this phase is temporary and and basically doing all the things that you just outlined. So staying engaged in recovery activities, like it could be therapy.
[00:21:11] Kathleen: It could be. Coping skills like mindfulness, journaling for stress and cravings, building that strong network of, of, friends or fellow, fellow recovering people like you have at ever bloom, like having those groups really important and setting long term sobriety goals to keep your motivation high.
[00:21:31] Kathleen: Of course practice self-care, like exercise, nutrition, all of those things. It's basically do the things, know that the pink cloud phase is going to end and then do all the things. you also wanna really monitor your emotions and just notice them, you know, I'm really, really big into noticing our emotions and noticing them without judgment.
[00:21:51] Kathleen: So seeing, okay. Oh, okay. I'm not feeling like that euphoria anymore. I'm feeling a little bit. anxious today. I'm feeling a little [00:22:00] bit overwhelmed by the feeling of staying sober forever and like noticing, okay, I'm just, I'm not going to judge that thought. It just is what it is. Those emotions are there. I think those can really help with the transition.
[00:22:13] Sonia: So after the pink cloud, we can move into the phase of recovery that can involve sobriety fatigue. Sonia, what has your experience with sobriety fatigue been?
[00:22:26] Sonia: I'm someone who struggles with sobriety fatigue. I love being sober, but I also wonder if I'm missing out on parts of life. And last week we did an episode on fun, and a lot of my sobriety fatigue I've noticed has to do with Um, and my latest sobriety fatigue episode was probably a few weeks ago when the weather started to get nicer out and I saw people sitting on patios and the air was warm and there was a breeze and I was [00:23:00] having just random kind of anxiety about my own stuff and just the thought I remember I was like walking my dog and and it was like warm and it was beautiful and I was looking at these people like enjoying a drink and I thought, yeah, So I gotta go now and figure out what's bothering me.
[00:23:16] Sonia: I probably have to journal. I probably have to call you and talk about it instead of just going and having a drink. And so there is this feeling of why is my way so much harder some days. Um, and the best way for me to get out of that is I play the team forward, which is I track what would happen after my first drink.
[00:23:37] Sonia: So I'm like, So let's say I do go out and decide to not journal and figure it out and just say, you know, I have anxiety. I'm going to go have a drink. I'll have the first drink and I'll feel a bit of relief from the anxiety. That's normal. But I will never stop at one drink. And so 12 hours later, if we play that tape forward, I will be waking up with a hangover, worried [00:24:00] about something I said.
[00:24:01] Sonia: Not able to do any of my self care, like journal, workout, eat properly, and then still have, if not worse, but at least the same level of anxiety. And so, now the way I think of it, someone, um, someone gave me a great new term, which is JOMO, the Joy of Missing Out. Yeah, we, you did?
[00:24:26] Kathleen: It was me! It was on our last episode. You were like, what? I've never heard of that. Someone gave you the term. It was me! It was me! Chummo!
[00:24:41] Sonia: a little Jomo. And so Jomo for me is this like happiness and contentment in disengaging from. Some activities and other distractions, and instead of feeling anxious or worried about missing out on something.
[00:24:57] Sonia: And so I think there's really positive aspects [00:25:00] to solitude and rest and personal wellbeing. And I think it's really about appreciating the present moment and prioritizing what matters to you. And I think JOMO can be really beneficial, especially in recovery and mental health, because it really promotes.
[00:25:15] Sonia: Mindfulness, self care, and helping you avoid the stress and pressure of constantly comparing yourself to others.So what is sobriety fatigue and what causes it?
[00:25:29] Kathleen: Sobriety fatigue is basically the tiredness people feel when they're in long term recovery from addiction. So it happens because staying sober does take a lot of effort and it can be stressful. So managing cravings, dealing with life without substances, and constantly working on personal issues be exhausting.
[00:25:50] Kathleen: And without substances, also some underlying mental health issues may also become more noticeable, like anxiety, for example, or [00:26:00] depression. Um, so this can just add to the fatigue. So it's important to recognize and address this tiredness to be able to maintain your long term sobriety.
[00:26:09] Sonia: How can someone recognize those symptoms of sobriety fatigue are they the same as depression, are they the same as anxiety?
[00:26:17] Kathleen: Yeah, they can be difficult to recognize for sure, because some of them will have the same symptoms as anxiety and depression, but they can be constant physical exhaustion. Even after a full night's sleep, it can be feel like emotional burnout. You can be irritable, anxious, depressed, like all those things. People can also experience a loss of motivation, finding it hard to stay interested in activities, and, they can have difficulty concentrating. Mental fog is also really common. So, it's interesting you say, like, how do you distinguish that from other things? Well, those symptoms are also symptoms of many other things.
[00:26:54] Kathleen: Like, I, I've just, Describe some symptoms of burnout in general, those [00:27:00] can be sometimes the symptoms of ADHD, of depression, sometimes anxiety, but looking at the timing of it. So have you just gone from the pink cloud to this? Or have you been sober for quite some time and you're feeling this? so definitely if those symptoms are present, being aware of them and then addressing them through rest, self care, and then seeking additional support.
[00:27:24] Kathleen: Okay. Um, is really important. What do you think some common triggers are for sobriety fatigue?
[00:27:31] Sonia: Yeah, so because I kind of cycle between sobriety, fatigue and the pink clouds still a little bit, I've had some time to look at my triggers and I, I really think the majority of my triggers are around social situations. So, if I'm out and I see a couple having a bottle of wine, I think. This is it for me.
[00:27:52] Sonia: That's never gonna be me. I don't get to do this. And there is this sort of, for me, this like poor me aspect, to sobriety [00:28:00] fatigue. And so, um, I think a great strategy for that is gratitude.
[00:28:06] Kathleen: Mm hmm. Yeah, what do you think some other effective strategies are for dealing with sobriety fatigue?
[00:28:13] Sonia: Yeah, we talked about playing the tape forward and gratitude and then, you know, some self care practices, physical exercise, good nutrition, having a support network, journaling. And then the one I want to add is what you talk about a lot, which is mindfulness practices.
[00:28:31] Kathleen: Yay! Yay!
[00:28:32] Sonia: Yeah, and you can check out our two episodes on mindfulness where Kathleen leads us through some mindfulness exercises.
[00:28:40] Sonia: But I think overall it's important to just be flexible and willing to adjust your expectations as you progress in recovery. So what works for you at the beginning may need to change now as you are encountering new experiences. And how does sobriety fatigue impact mental health?
[00:28:58] Kathleen: Well, it can really [00:29:00] impact mental health. it can increase feelings of anxiety and depression. And if you have those conditions, like, in a pre existing way before you got sober, it can make those conditions harder to manage. The constant effort to maintain sobriety can lower resilience and and it can reduce your ability to cope with stress and setback.
[00:29:19] Kathleen: So that's why it is really, really important to have those strategies in place when there's sobriety fatigue, mental fog, difficulty, concentrating, So all of these things, all of these factors can really increase the risk of a slip, um, that people may want to seek relief through substance use.
[00:29:38] Kathleen: I mean, there's a lot going on with sobriety fatigue and, you have to address that sobriety fatigue and in order to have longterm sobriety, you have to address it. It's not something to sweep under the rug and just be like, Oh, it's okay. It's just a phase. Like, sure. It can be just a phase, but you have to do something about it.
[00:29:58] Sonia: Yeah. So what are some [00:30:00] ways to maintain a positive mindset during sobriety fatigue? And I specifically want to know that you said,
[00:30:06] Kathleen: Well, I mean, you're doing a lot of them already, Sonia. It's like prioritizing self care with exercise, healthy eating, adequate sleep. Sleep is so, so, so important. engaging in mindfulness practices like meditation or just those daily mindfulness practices that we spoke of in our previous episodes. Yoga is actually great because it is like moving meditation.
[00:30:28] Kathleen: So your body is moving, but you're also being really in the present moment. I think setting realistic goals also by breaking down larger tasks into manageable steps like that is also really important. Staying connected, friends, family. Support groups like Everbloom, that is huge in order to maintain a positive mindset during sobriety fatigue.
[00:30:53] Kathleen: And then you can also seek the support of a therapist to address some of those other mental health issues that you might be [00:31:00] facing or just sobriety fatigue in general. Just having that outlet to express what you're feeling, can be really important. I also think there's a lot of value in making the time and space to have.
[00:31:12] Kathleen: Enjoyable activities and to practice gratitude. As we mentioned, we live in such busy lives these days, and it can be so easy to just be like, Oh, I'll get over it. Or again, sweep it under the rug, but making time for those to be able to have enjoyable experiences and to do all that self care is so, so important.
[00:31:33] Sonia: so you did touch on it briefly, but how can therapy or counseling assist in navigating sobriety fatigue?
[00:31:42] Kathleen: Well, therapists can help understand and help address any underlying psychological challenges that are taking place. They can offer structure and accountability and then they can help, um, with skills for emotional regulation as well and, and [00:32:00] skills to manage cravings.and the strategies that.
[00:32:03] Kathleen: Therapists would provide, depending on the therapist is, is really can help with, prevention of slips, right? And they can really tailor their approach to each individual. So I think therapy is a really amazing compliment, but at the end of the day, person who is sober and trying to maintain their sobriety.
[00:32:27] Kathleen: It is up to them to do the things, right? Like the therapist can only be the guide on the journey, you can't force someone to do the things.So we've talked about self compassion before, and I think it has a huge role to play in sobriety fatigue and the sobriety journey.
[00:32:45] Kathleen: What role do you think self compassion plays in overcoming sobriety fatigue?
[00:32:51] Sonia: I think it's huge. I think, and it took me a really long time, and I'm still trying to figure out self compassion, but. sometimes I'll just say to myself, like, [00:33:00] Yeah, it sucks. It does. Sometimes it sucks to be sober. It feels like that, right? And just admit it, like, yeah, it would be nice to have a mimosa at brunch.
[00:33:10] Sonia: And I think, for me, that's like the greatest act of self compassion is saying to myself, Yeah, it sucks. Instead of, always trying to convince myself, that it's, it's like constantly, it's like exhausting, right? Just saying to myself, not drinking is amazing. Not drinking is amazing. And, and it is, there's just some days that letting it go, is, is the kindest option for myself.
[00:33:38] Kathleen: And how can support groups like Everbloom help individuals experiencing sobriety fatigue?
[00:33:44] Sonia: Oh, my God. So, so much. I think it's one of those places where a support group can be so helpful. And so my own group reminds me how amazing and fun life still is. And they understand that. I want to have. I'm a glass of champagne on [00:34:00] New Year's Eve. But then it mocktails are. And so having that shared experience is so helpful and inspiring.
[00:34:09] Sonia: And I think groups also get you to see different perspectives of the same experiences. And some people will be playing the tape forward. Some people will double down on self care. Some will just say, you know what, I'm going to do a Netflix and a mocktail. So having a group and seeing how other people approach a similar problem is so helpful for me.
[00:34:29] Kathleen: How do you think, so support, so we talked about support groups. how can family and friends best support someone going through sobriety fatigue?
[00:34:39] Sonia: I think, and I think this is true for a lot of things, which is, I think that you need to listen and not always be trying to jump in there and fix it. So yeah, maybe even
[00:34:49] Kathleen: and gentlemen, and others, this is very important for all aspects of life. Okay, continue.
[00:34:56] Sonia: Yes, no, we both have struggled with people who are [00:35:00] like, I'm going to come in and fix this. We've both probably been that person where we want to come in and fix it. And so, yeah, I think sometimes you just need someone to agree with you that. It sucks. I get it. You must sometimes feel like the odd one out when you're not drinking.
[00:35:15] Sonia: And I think giving someone that compassion and empathy is such a gift. And I don't always need a pep talk when I'm complaining about, not being able to drink. And I know I'm not going to get the same perspective from some of my friends or family as I would in a sobriety group. So it's just really helpful to say, yeah, I get it.
[00:35:37] Sonia: That might be tough. So how can someone turn the challenges of sobriety fatigue into opportunities for growth?
[00:35:43] Kathleen: Oh, opportunities for growth. There are so many opportunities for growth in anything that is challenging. So when we look for an opportunity for growth, it really involves self reflection and how to understand to make yourself better or, or just even identify [00:36:00] areas for improvement. I think that, Working with the challenges of sobriety, fatigue will help build resilience.
[00:36:07] Kathleen: Like when you're coping with stress and fatigue that can make you stronger. if you're improving your self care habits, like implementing exercise, healthy eating and mindfulness that will, that will improve your overall wellbeing, that is growth right there. strengthening your support networks that can provide encouragement, You got growth right there too.
[00:36:30] Kathleen: So I think that, with all things in life actually, and sobriety fatigue included, when there is a challenge, there's also an opportunity for growth.
[00:36:42] Sonia: And so how can someone maintain that balanced perspective on sobriety, kind of considering both the highs and the lows? Oh
[00:36:51] Kathleen: to tell myself when I was going through my divorce, this too shall pass. I would say it over and over and over again. And I came to [00:37:00] understand you know, this too shall pass means the good times will pass and the hard times will pass too. it is, practicing mindfulness to manage those emotional fluctuations and understanding that setbacks are normal.
[00:37:15] Kathleen: So I think that having self compassion is part of that reflecting on your progress and challenges and saying, okay, how do I need to adjust my approach? And I, Knowing that there are gonna be highs and lows, right? Like it's not just sobriety, it's life like there, there are gonna be good things, there are gonna be hard things, and this too shall pass.
[00:37:39] Kathleen: Andthat mindset actually can really help appreciate the positives, while also managing the lows, and that can really help someone foster a balanced and sustain sustainable journey in sobriety. Sonya, what resonated with you the most today? Um,
[00:37:57] Sonia: that when you were talking about [00:38:00] the symptoms of sobriety fatigue, that resonated with me that sometimes I have those, but I don't recognize them as that. Like I can be tired. It doesn't mean it's sobriety fatigue, but that there can be like a physical component to it was really interesting to me.
[00:38:15] Sonia: And then of course, I just, I love talking about self compassion because it's my, I work on. Every day. So, that resonated with me. What resonated with you?
[00:38:26] Kathleen: I didn't even know I was had a pink cloud until this episode because, you know, I did when I first stopped using drugs. I had a pink cloud and I was in the pink cloud. And What resonated with me is it's really important to know that there are these phases because then you can be like, Oh, okay, this is what this is.
[00:38:44] Kathleen: And you can be more realistic about it. And I think awareness is everything, right? Like when you have awareness, then you can do something to help yourself. You can change and evolve when you have awareness. So I think that's what resonated with me the [00:39:00] most. Thank you for listening to sisters in sobriety, and we will see you next week. Alright. If you have any questions, leave them in the chat.