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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I'd like to invite you to take a moment
in your day
witnessing everything expanding,
breathing in and breathing
out, feeling the expansion,
feeling the opportunity
within your fingertips,
and feeling what it means to you
to simply be in process.
Breathing in and breathing out, inviting
you now to bring awareness to active
Breathing in and breathing out,
feeling what your body does as you
recognize an active process Beginning.
Once again, finding body,
listening to heart, and allowing
your thoughts to examine what it
means to be an active process.
Exploring,
finding pathways,
and maybe even acknowledging
resistance or blocks.
Things that might need attention.
Breathing in and breathing out, you
take a moment to examine resistance
Possibly illuminating ideas
for this active process.
And now, letting your body settle.
Coming back to center.
Breathing in and breathing out.
Finding your grounding.
And opening your eyes
when you feel called.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics,
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression, To finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today.
I'm super grateful.
We're reconnecting with Travis
initially started about the intention
and now getting to meet you and talk
to you on the tail end of a experience
you've had less than a week ago.
Travis.
How are you coming in?
I'm doing good.
I'm doing good.
I'm very
The energy's very still.
Like, I'm very still in my head.
I'm not, like, bouncing
all over the place.
I'm just still.
I'm very content.
The journey was amazing.
It wasn't easy.
That's for sure.
It's eye opening.
And I, and I, and I'm not fixed
by no means, but I'm, I'm awake.
I'm aware.
I know that I'm, at least I know that,
hey, this is the journey I'm going on now.
And I'm, I'm in it.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm in it.
You're in it.
You're in it.
And just like the meditation is,
it's an active process right now.
And could you unpack a little bit of
that beauty that, could you unpack
that honesty that you just gave me,
which was the journey was amazing.
It wasn't easy, And yet it
unlocked a lot of potential that
is providing you this stillness.
Can you speak to that?
What that's like?
It's humbling.
You realize that,
well, it's sure not a
fucking magic bullet, is it?
No, but it's sure a start.
It's sure.
It's kind of, I guess the best way to
describe it is if you were, if someone
told you that you needed to wake up, but
you couldn't wake up, so you decided to
stick your finger in an electrical socket.
If you wake up, you jolt a little bit.
I guess this is that jolt.
You know, I said a lot of
stuff, my eyes are open.
I, you know, I don't have this big
ego around alcohol or it's like,
Oh, I still want to be a drinker.
Do I still want to have drinks
and have that option on the table?
Yeah, but I don't want that
part of my identity anymore.
Like that, that was like, my identity
was like, Hey, we're going to be around
Travis, we're going to have drinks.
I don't want that to be my identity.
I want it to be, if we're going
to be around Travis, we're
probably working out or something.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
And I never considered going to AA.
And And I still don't really
totally like AA, just, I'm not
really good about sitting around
wondering about my problems.
But there is a group I know of that I met
through a friend that's very positive,
and they go out and they do fun stuff,
they go to, like, games, and just stuff.
And they're not boring, and it's, it's,
I just never would have considered
that before, but like I said, you're,
you get humbled, and you realize
that you can't do this on your own.
And you do need a tribe, and you do need
a group of people, and you, and, You know,
this is a universal thing that, you know,
the medication teaches you, the medicine
teaches you that this is a universal
thing and that we're all connected.
And when you try to do it on your
own, you connect, you cut yourself
off from all the help out there, and
I think I've done that forever.
And now I'm actually willing to go
get help and listen to people and.
I sit in a group setting even though
I hate that because it really, I
mean, I think it comes down to maybe
it's not the fact that I don't like
AA, maybe the fact that it, the fact
that I, maybe it just bruises my ego.
Thank you.
And what's coming up for you right
now as you're acknowledging that?
I'm acknowledging that it'll be a
good thing for me to start going
to as I come out of this, you know?
Yeah.
I feel a little weird to be honest
because I'm not in this to quit drinking
for the rest of my life, so I feel like
going to AA is kind of like sacrilegious,
but if it's, if, if it's supporting me
in that moment, then I guess it's not.
Well, and can I ask a question about
when you go somewhere to travel, we
often think we're just going there to
travel, and then lo and behold, what
happens sometimes to people is they end
up finding a home and staying, right?
And so on this journey with the medicine
and the psilocybin mushrooms, what
are you acknowledging that you're
in the middle of at this moment?
Heading towards that.
I think, but heading towards wanting
to stay in the sober sober lane because
I'm going to like finally like who I am.
So while we like who you are,
you're not scared of life anymore.
And that's what these these.
Ceremonies do they open you up.
So if you start liking yourself
again, you're not scared again,
and you have a Desire for life
and you have understanding.
Why would you want to be screwed up?
You'd be you'd want to
not be in high, right?
And yet you're also learning within
these ceremonies from what I hear
is More understanding of who you
truly are as a human being correct.
Yeah, what just hit you?
No, I mean it's like
Yeah, well, I'm just thinking of
like, you know, waking up, running
to get a drink, and still thinking
about doing it, but not doing it.
It's just a weird, it's a weird
and scary place right where
I'm at right now, to be honest.
Yeah, the Tibetans call it the Bardo,
the in between, the interminute before
life and death, and death then into life.
And what, I'm in real awe
of you right now, Travis.
Is holding both.
So for you to articulate saying there's
a longing for drinking and yet, I don't
need to do it, is a new middle for you.
Yes.
What's coming up in your
body in this moment?
I'm just really fucking lazy right now.
I'm just like I, and like, I, you
know, I feel bad cause I haven't
like wanted to just jump back into
work and, you know, yesterday I was
kind of going to go to the gym, but
then I decided to shovel the snow.
You know, he said, get outside and
get in the, just get in the sun.
Cause that helps.
And so, my mom was just really wanted the
driveway shoveled, the driveway shoveled,
and it had to be at a certain time, and
like, I wanted to go to the gym first,
but then I could just tell him, look
in her face, that I was like, So I just
was like, okay, I'll, so anyway, so I
shoveled the driveway for an hour, and
then I just, instead of going to the gym,
I, I felt good, and I just kind of went
inside and made phone calls, and, Yeah.
I got it.
Tomorrow is.
You know, get up at a certain time, go
to maybe go to a meeting, work out, go
to my office where there's people where I
have to behave, like just get back into.
Cause I haven't felt like it.
I've just been totally chilled out.
I mean, I have my moments of
panic, but I've, I've, you know, when
I was went into this thing, I was on
like 250 milligrams of, gummies and
now I'm, I'm weaning myself off that.
I didn't think I was going to be able
to and that's now a thing in my head.
I'm like, okay, this is definitely
something I don't need in my life anymore.
Like, what do you make
of that with psilocybin?
That there's such a radical,
almost undescribable.
I don't want this in my life anymore.
How do you make sense of that?
Like with the drinking and having
met you three weeks ago, you talking
about suicidal ideation here today.
You're like, I just don't want
to hold these things anymore.
What do you make of that?
Because you're not making me do this
in one, you're not just, you're not
just pulling the rug off of my feet.
You're letting me, you're letting me
come to these conclusions on my own.
It's like, if all of a sudden you told me
right now I couldn't smoke any more weed
and I couldn't have another drink right
now, right now, I'd freak the fuck out.
But you're not doing that.
And so it's like, first
it's becoming aware.
That's the first step.
Once you're aware, then you could start
to make, at least take one foot, one
step, Towards the direction, but you don't
got to do it all at once and that's the
that's what I think people get People
screw up in addiction you overwhelm the
person like this is a serious Overwhelm
of their nervous system and all of a
sudden you're just jerking them, but this
is own awareness, and it's an awareness
It's like a, it's an awareness
that's coming from above me.
Like it's coming from, it's knowledge
coming into my head and if it's not come,
it's not overwhelmed, I would suggest
anyone that's doing this, like you said,
you got to love yourself during this, like
the week that you do the actual journey
on the medicine and you can't, you gotta,
you can't, you can't rush the process.
And I think I even rushed the
process a little bit when I was in
my session, cause it was so intense.
Tell me more about the rush.
What do you recognize and what are you
learning about for the next session
that you're taking your own advice?
I think I started smoking into
the session too soon, even
though it kind of got me back.
But I feel like.
I was in the session and I
was using that as a crutch.
And so I was kind of using, that was kind
of firing the neural neurotransmitters
to use to, Oh, this is a crutch, you
know, you're, you're vaping as a crutch.
And I think I, that, I think I did.
I think if I would have listened to the
guide, he kind of said, you know, I would
maybe wait another hours to tell you
a little bit more to it, but I didn't
listen, but it's okay, because I learned
that you should probably start listening.
Thank you.
So that's the only thing I was really
mad at myself about, to be honest.
No worries.
What are you doing to prepare
for your next ceremony?
There sounds like you're going to
do another ceremony in two weeks.
What, what are you acknowledging that
you need to do within the next two weeks?
What are the invitations?
So I'm going to really be
working on my drinking.
I had a couple last night,
but didn't overdo it.
Very, you know, controlled up
working up to that ceremony.
Like I want to definitely have a good
weeks under my belt with nothing.
So I'm working towards that.
I'm going to really get in the.
shift my, shift my physiology.
And just the frame of mind
I am from out of flight into
fight, which is the gym for me.
I mean, it's just a switch.
It's just a second.
Once I'm at it, once I know it's
the right time to get back in there,
which will be today at some point.
Then there's, then I'm, then I
become, that becomes my new addiction.
I become addicted with, like,
that'll be the thing I think about
all the time is, is working out.
Like, that'll be my thing.
Like, what time am I getting up?
I got to get up to work
out to do, you know?
Yes.
Can I go ahead?
I think the biggest thing is I'm
realizing that I'm accepting help and
I'm accepting that I probably do need
to be in a group scenario for a while.
And which is, Like the AA
scenario and, and it, but it
all starts with, you know, Dr.
Ryan, when you were kind of prepping
me to meet the guide, you kind of
were explaining to me that all this,
I was telling you I was scared,
and you were kind of explaining to
me that all this starts with love.
And so, love and trust.
What's the opposite of fear?
Trust.
What's the opposite of love?
Hate.
Well, see if you, you know what I mean?
Like, so if you hate something,
well, you can love it and
then you can get out of it.
If you fear something, then you can
anyways, you can trust that you can
trust that you'll get out of it.
So the biggest thing was.
You know, the guide, when you were going,
when I was going through my journey,
the guide would, the guide was, would
talk to you, but very directly, not,
not in a suggestive manner, but only
following, only following what I was
saying, and, and I would be screaming
that, you know, an hour into the, the
ceremony, the only thing I could think
of was I just wanted to be done with it.
I just wanted to be sober.
Like, please get me through this.
Did you hear what she said?
I wanted to get done with it
and I just wanted to be sober.
What was the medicine telling you
and what was the guide suggesting
and supporting you around?
The journey to that, to sober.
The journey to it, through it.
It's the journey, it's not, it's not,
it's, The journey is, is, The results are
in the journey because if all of a sudden
I did that's that beat to the be honest
is my honest If all sudden I did that
experience and I just came out of it and
I was like, I'm never drinking again I
think that's a recipe for total disaster
because you didn't have the journey.
I didn't have this two weeks of Like,
you know, I had my drink yesterday
and when I had it I didn't like it It
was, I needed it because it was, it
just needed to get out of my system.
And you know, when, you know,
cause I could have that obsession
where I can't think about shit.
I could take the Neltrex on at least,
and I'm honoring that it's not the end
all, but it is doing his job in the
little micro macro of this whole thing.
But I take that, I have my
two or I have what I have.
And then my brain kind
of just shuts it off.
And then that obsession goes away.
I just don't have to worry about it till
tomorrow, and then I can make a decision
if I'm gonna have it tomorrow, but.
And you also are saying something
super important, Travis, is you
get consent in this experience.
So what you're doing is you're
witnessing also, which I admire,
is the nuances of the drinking.
You said, oh, I don't like the taste
of it now, or I'm not No, I don't.
And I know I'm poisoning myself when I'm
doing it, I know this is that, I know
that this is not helping the journey and
it's a temporary fix, and that I'm on,
and I am honoring it, that it's, it's a
temporary fix, but I'm also honoring that
I don't want it really around me anymore.
Well, and you said something to
me that you were integrating is
you know that there's health.
So if you continue down this path,
it sounded like in your journey, that
the medicine was saying some really
bad things could happen to your body.
What was that about?
I mean, I think I'm, I think I'm
at the point where I've, I beat
the hell out of my body enough.
Like, I mean, I've overdosed
14 times in the hospital.
You know, ambulance rides, you know,
so like, you know, I could put back
10 shots, 12 shots and be totally
you wouldn't even know I'm drinking.
And so you can't do that at my size and
not and not think that you're shaving time
off the end of your life I don't know.
I, I, I admire you, man.
You, you, but do you hear the resiliency
of where you're standing right
now coming from 14 overdoses, sir?
What's that is resiliency.
And I see strength and power right
now and fortitude in the hurricane.
And I just, I bow to you.
I know it's not easy.
I know it's not easy.
What's the emotion?
I should be alive.
So, I mean, that's why
I'm talk to you, Dr.
Ryan, because it's, I believe this is.
the medicine of the future.
I mean, if they could, if they
could integrate these, if they could
integrate these ceremonies and then
have someone have the ability to
immediately have a workout plan.
And, someone like you who
can help them afterwards.
And because if I, if I wasn't able
to have these sessions with you
afterwards to help me understand,
because you understand this stuff, I
would, I would be pretty disappointed.
Still, I would be
screwed up, to be honest.
So, the fa so, getting the word out
there, so this could be something that's
mainstream, the reason I, I feel it's
so important it's mainstream, because,
the God, the actual person doing the,
The, the ceremony is, is, is almost
more important than the medicine because
without the, without the right guide,
you're really just taking a substance.
But when the guide comes in, the substance
turns into medicine and it gets connected
up to all these, these warriors and
people that have gone on this journey.
And like, now you have this.
But without that guide and without
that guide already being connected
prior to starting, I don't see that
connecting and then I see that person
just getting thrown off a damn cliff.
Much love to you.
Much love to you.
for that.
That's a remark.
It's a very, I just want to say
it's a very special and it should
be something treated very serious.
It shouldn't be anything done half assed.
Deep respect for that, and thank
you for that, just, articulation,
it was a beautiful articulation.
What are you doing to be gentle
with yourself today in this moment?
I'm gonna go talk to my mom for
a little bit, and then I'm gonna
chill, and then I'm going to
micro, and then I'm going to gym.
And then I'm going to Work.
Much love to you.
Blessings, Travis.
Thank you.
Tomorrow's a transition day to where I'm
going to not drink any alcohol and I'm
going to go be around a bunch of people
and I'll probably do some AA meetings.
Wow.
I love that you put that out there.
Manifestation is beautiful.
Until next time.
Thank you, Dr.
Ryan.
I appreciate it.