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The Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast brings together amazing leaders, entrepreneurs, and experts to share the successes, challenges, and secrets to living and leading as a VIBRANT Leader.
Tune-in each week as Nicole Greer interviews a new Vibrant Leader.
Email her at nicole@vibrantculture.com
Nicole Greer (00:00:00) - Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name [a]is Nicole Greer and they call me The Vibrant Coach. And we have another amazing, vibrant episode of the podcast. And today I have Robb Munger with me. He's the founder of Exodus Place, a champions transitional housing for homeless men with a background in finance where he established a leading financial company and manufactured housing. Munger's journey took a pivotal turn when he joined the board of Guiding Light Mission. There he propelled a struggling rescue mission into prominence and transformed a state corrections facility into Michigan's largest non-governmental transitional housing, offering new beginnings for those in need. A former Army officer, Munger’s commitment to service shines through his philanthropic work and innovative solutions in community development. His collaboration with the Salvation Army and Goodwill in a small town in an American City has showcased an innovative approach to addressing homelessness, demonstrating the impactful change that results from combining compassion with action. This initiative, with Munger at the helm, has become a testament to the power of collaborative community efforts in making a tangible difference in people's lives.
Nicole Greer (00:01:16) - Oh my goodness. We're so blessed to have you on the podcast. How are you, Robb?
Robb Munger (00:01:21) - Oh, fantastic. Good. Good morning, Nicole.
Nicole Greer (00:01:25) - Yeah, it's so great to have you here. So I just love the work that you're doing. I have been traveling a ton, and there isn't a single city that I have been to where I haven't noticed that there is a homelessness problem. So I'm so glad that you are on the job and on a mission. What drew you to this in the first place?
Robb Munger (00:01:47) - Well, it wasn't an original plan. Basically, I went from helping a homeless man he said would work for food. Got him a, you know, housing and put him to work in my company, my development company. And I thought I was doing the white knight. I was, you know, saving him and, and how things changed after I started talking to him and hearing his background and he created this huge fundamental change in me on how I looked at people.
Robb Munger (00:02:19) - And, and so Tim was actually put in my life to change me. And so that's what started it. I was never going to be involved with the kumbaya nonprofit world because I like finance and military.
Nicole Greer (00:02:35) - That’s great! Okay, well, you know, it takes an amazing leader to run a finance company, to run a construction situation, and then also to run a homeless shelter. So what's your definition of leadership?
Robb Munger (00:02:47) - Walk your walk, I see as a leader, I have to follow the plan to bring the corporate culture to life in the organization. It's nobody else's responsibility. The most responsibility as a leader is the leaders. That's my job. Now, I can enroll other people. That's what a good leader does. But I have to set that good corporate culture to achieve the goals that I want to, what I want to meet and where I can help people. Because it always comes down to helping people. Because if you don't have people, you're either not helping them, you're not selling to them, you're not servicing them.
Robb Munger (00:03:29) - So it's always the people. So that good leadership really just exudes the example of a good corporate culture and giving them the training that they need.
Nicole Greer (00:03:42) - Yeah. That's fantastic. I couldn't agree more. I think the leader has to set the tone. They have to decide what they want the culture to be like. And I'm kind of hearing you say it's all about people and getting them trained and helping them increase their own capacity to do good things in this world.
Robb Munger (00:03:58) - Right. I'm sorry. I'm very passionate. I spoke at a city council meeting last night. There was severe bullying by one of the councilmen in a previous meeting, and the councilman did not see how it was bullying and humiliation. And so I was piqued there. And it really puts a microscope on good corporate, you know, behavior and respect to, oh, this is a cancer. And it's not that the person's a bad person. They just need the training so that they can accomplish what that person really wants.
Robb Munger (00:04:43) - He just is going about the wrong way to get what he wants.
Nicole Greer (00:04:48) - Yeah. And I think a lot of times what I would call that is like a blind spot. Many times people don't, like you said, have never been trained. They don't know another strategy, another tactic. So they think that forcing bullying is going to get the job done. And it's like it takes another leader to say, hey, I've got a technique, a strategy, something that might work a little bit better for you. So I think that's important. You know, I think that leaders have to have intentionality around their skills and that's what you're talking about. What do you think are some of the most important skills of successful leaders?
Robb Munger (00:05:25) - Humility. How's that? You know, so I'm supposed to be at the top. I got all the accolades. And in reality, it's humility. Because with humility, I can have empathy to understand where that employee’s at or that customer’s at and then the wraparound skill is to create a strategy and a flowchart of how to give my customer or give my employee what they need to have the best tools possible.
Robb Munger (00:06:02) - That's what I lean into.
Nicole Greer (00:06:03) - Yeah, I think that that's absolutely correct. Yeah. So you've got to have your people equipped, right? And you've got to have them, you know, the ability to use the equipment or the tools, the strategies, that you give them. Yeah. And so I love your story about how you tried to be the white knight. And it turned out that it flipped the other way and that Tim became your leader. Tell us a little bit more about that story. How did the whole situation flip? What did Tim teach you and tell us about his leadership style?
Robb Munger (00:06:32) - I was prejudiced, I mean, let's just call it what it is. I see a homeless guy and he was basically drunk from the night before when I met him on that Saturday. And, and so I thought, okay, he's a drunk, he's an addict. He was a felon. So he has all these labels. So he's poor, he's stupid.
Robb Munger (00:06:57) - He can't communicate. He can't, you know, work with others. So all of a sudden, you know, I wasn't trying to be prejudiced, but we're always judging people, okay? Are they safe? Aren't they safe? Are they a good fit? Aren't they a good fit? So. So that part of that parameter came in? Well, he was with me for a couple of weeks and I needed some help around my house. We had horses and I had quite a bit of land and kids and stuff, but the kids were small, and I said, hey, could you come over and help me? And as he did, well, one, I watched how hard he was working and I was amazed at how hard he was working because I'm like, wait a second, he's a bum. He's an alcoholic. He's homeless. And I'm watching his skill level. His skill level was amazing. And I said, Tim, where'd you learn this? Well, you know, when I get out of prison, I'd get on a construction crew, and it really worked, he says.
Robb Munger (00:08:04) - But my problem is alcohol and drugs because that's been my coping skill. And back then I didn't know what coping skill meant. I mean, it's, you know, I was just oblivious. And I said, well, how'd you end up with the drinking alcohol problem? Because there's always an up river problem. He says, well, watch my father die in Vegas. He says he was a drug dealer. He got into the car and was killed, and then my mom moved me back to Grand Rapids. Got married. Stepfather didn't want me. And so, when somebody offered me, you know, weed I took it because I'd already started kind of smoking and so started that. Then I started drinking. And he says that all started when I was twelve and I thought, oh, so basically he started going down a path and he didn't have the parental supervision and guidance that he needed. And so that's where it opened up to me. And I'm sure a lot of listeners and, you know, like for me, oh, I’ve had it so bad.
Robb Munger (00:09:13) - You don't understand. My parents got divorced. I got poor grades in school. You know, I can explain away all of, you know, how bad it was for me in life. But the reality is, we all have tough challenges. But then I saw really what tough challenges looked like. I'm like, oh, wait a second. You know, my mom didn’t buy me a brand new car at sixteen. That's not a tough challenge. You know, and so, you know, as you get older, you start realizing, oh, geez, I had it really, really well. So, Tim, that's what Tim did to me, was it reframed my parameters of the way I saw myself. Even though I was successful, you kind of, successful people so many times don't see them as successful. They see them as that kid that didn't do well in school or sports, or was the nerd that nobody wanted to sit at the table with at lunch time.
Robb Munger (00:10:20) - But you grow up and you still have these emotional feelings, and so getting people in your life that will adjust that always helps.
Nicole Greer (00:10:29) - Yeah, yeah. Throw you out of your comfort zone. The old comfort zone, as they say. Yeah. So it sounds like Tim kind of held up a mirror for you to see what a great start you actually did have. And, you know, a lot of times, Robb, I do tons of leadership development. I'm in rooms with groups of leaders all the time. And, you know, they do have a complaint about people. They're like, you know, why does this person think this way? Why does this person behave this way? And I love what you just said. Everybody write this down. He said there's always an upriver problem. Did I get that right? Up river?
Robb Munger (00:11:03) - Amen.
Nicole Greer (00:11:05) - And that is absolutely the truth. And so, you know, when we get employees, when we get people on our teams, it's imperative that we have a helping attitude.
Nicole Greer (00:11:17) - And I think I'm kind of hearing that in Robb Munger's leadership philosophy is like, help, help people, you know, because you keep saying, my customer or my employee. And so you probably think this way. I think a lot of times we don't think of our employees as customers, but we have to give them what I call internal customer service, which means, oh, I have a confused person in front of me or a person who has a blind spot. It's my role to slow down and help a guy out. And so it sounds like you guys helped each other out.
Robb Munger (00:11:46) - Oh, definitely. Definitely. Just a beautiful relationship.
Nicole Greer (00:11:50) - Yeah. So you had this one experience. How did you get all the way to taking a, old, you know, Michigan State Penitentiary and turning it into a facility for fellows to get the help they need? How did all that happen?
Robb Munger (00:12:05) - Well, the crazy ride was when Tim started drinking after about eight weeks of working with me, and a real estate development company is a relatively small organization.
Robb Munger (00:12:18) - You control a fair amount of assets with more of an executive team. And so I didn't have an HR department, and I said, hey, Tim, this doesn't work. So I connected him with the rescue mission which was Guiding Light Mission. He called me two days later, says, hey, they said I need a mentor. I said, hey, that's a great idea. Didn't realize he was asking me to be his mentor.
Nicole Greer (00:12:44) - Phase two. Phase two.
Robb Munger (00:12:46) - So not very intuitive on my part. You know, I tell people, I said, hey, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. Fortunately, I'm pretty good at finding really sharp people to be around me. And so I ended up mentoring him. The board of Guiding Light asked me to be on the board about five times, turned them down all five times until they invited me to a luncheon. There's a testimony of a young man that had come through their alcohol and drug rehab program.
Robb Munger (00:13:18) - His parents were school teachers. My mom was a school teacher. And because of Tim’s story, because of this guy's story, I became a board member. End up taking the lead for their long term strategic plan at the executive level. Never knew that they were in financial trouble until after about six months. It was disclosed they were in financial trouble. The mission has been around for quite some time and they said they didn't have a mortgage. Well, they did have a huge line of credit. So the executive director resigns. I figured, hey, I've done my two things. Took care of Tim. Tim's already on the street again. Drinking and drugging. The mission's going to end up probably having to get sold because I suggestted just selling it because there's another mission in town. I'm hopping in my truck to go out in the country and where I'm more comfortable, and three board members came up and said, hey, you know who should run this place? No idea. Well.
Nicole Greer (00:14:18) - You're truly number three.
Nicole Greer (00:14:20) - This is the third phase.
Robb Munger (00:14:22) - It's just, I was like, I didn't see it coming, so I ended up taking it on. Within three weeks, it was all set to close. We didn't have money for payroll, utilities, and then had my resignation letter all set. And as I'm getting ready to push send, the bookkeeper comes in and she goes, hey, I just went to the PO box. We got a certified letter or overnight letter and we got $38,000.
Nicole Greer (00:14:52) - Oh my goodness. Can you tell us who sent that or why? Or is it just a little God wink or a God nod or what is that?
Robb Munger (00:15:01) - That was back in 2008, so I don't have a memory good enough memory to say who did it. One was a foundation and one was just a big donor that heard we had a need.
Nicole Greer (00:15:14) - So it's fantastic. My mentor calls that mailbox money.
Robb Munger (00:15:19) - Oh, it's exactly.
Nicole Greer (00:15:21) - It's a thing, everybody. Mailbox money.
Robb Munger (00:15:24) - I love mailbox money. I'm going to my mailbox.
Robb Munger (00:15:26) - I still own a lot of real estate, so I'm going to my mailbox here a little bit. But yeah, it started out that way. And once that money came in I didn't send my resignation. I put my head down, prayed. I said, okay, Lord. And this is not a real Christian, so don't take this to church and share it with your pastor. But I said, okay, Lord, let's rock and roll. And I said, hey, and that was where my spirit was. I had already started working with the men and the homeless in the program because we fed about 150 men and women each day and we housed about twenty. And I said, hey, I need to turn this place around. So it goes back to leadership. I asked for help of homeless people, and people are like, you know, you talk about being you have to have a lot of humility to ask for help from homeless people. But that's where that spirit had been put on me from Tim is you can ask for help from anybody, even a person that doesn't have any money, that's addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Robb Munger (00:16:33) - And so with the staff, with the homeless, with our volunteers and donors, we were able to turn around the whole mission, pay down almost the whole $250,000 on the line of credit.
Nicole Greer (00:16:49) - Nice.
Robb Munger (00:16:50) - And so within nine months. And then I set up the financial parameters on a dashboard so we understood what was incoming, what was outgoing? What was the items we need to measure, how many people were feeding each day. And then, you know, our pay, you know, our payables and our payroll and so that we can actually see the operations, the organization. So it's not just as a leader, it's not just, hey, rah rah rah, it's also equipping everybody with the ability to be able see what the organization is doing. And so that's what I led it into. And so Guiding Light is still around today. We increased the profit and loss by 6400%.
Nicole Greer (00:17:36) - Wow and congratulations.
Robb Munger (00:17:38) - So yeah but it took a team. And it took a lot of humility on my part to say, hey, I need help.
Robb Munger (00:17:46) - And that was the only way the place was going to survive.
Nicole Greer (00:17:49) - Yeah, and I just love that. So, asking the people that actually need the help to help, you know, and what that's kind of resonating in my mind is this idea that everybody needs purpose. You're right. You know, even if you're homeless, you need something to do. I mean, I think that's the biggest issue. When you were saying we judge and we do judge, we see a homeless person on the side of the road or up against a building or whatever. It's like, why don't they get up and do something? Well, they've got to have maybe the invitation to engage, you know, they've been turned away or, you know, because of the judgment there is like it's fruitless. So asking them to actually get up and, you know, there's this old thing in a big fat book, you know, get up, take your mat and walk. You know, you need that invitation, right? Yeah, that's good stuff.
Nicole Greer (00:18:36) - Yeah. We were just recently my whole family, we were down in Argentina and we were in Buenos Aires. Have you ever been there before?
Robb Munger - No.
Nicole Greer - Oh, my gosh, it's crazy. It's bigger than New York City. It's 15 million people. And so, you know, we saw like, little teeny tiny people on mattresses and stuff. And so, really, really heartbreaking stuff, you know, and you think, you know, why doesn't this daddy get up and work? Well, he's got to let somebody let him work. You know, and so I think purpose, mission, and, you know, I think work is really a gift having work to do.
Robb Munger (00:19:18) - It is. And just like as a leader, if you see the janitor cleaning it like a bathroom, a toilet, or a urinal to show that person respect and the humility and to acknowledge that they're doing it. I've watched leaders belittle people like that. In fact, in my staff I go, okay, well, if you're judging that person, tell you what, I'm going to fire them so you can do that job.
Nicole Greer (00:19:44) - Right? You don't want to do that.
Robb Munger (00:19:47) - Yeah. It's hilarious because when I say I'm going to fire them I pause and that manager will say, well, good, great, now that I know that you're going to be doing it, I'll know it's done right. And all of a sudden the humility of that person starts to change and the compassion towards the person. They're not an object cleaning the bathroom, they are a person. And like you said, seeing people on the streets and having that compassion and empathy for that person. and then you give them that purpose. And, I have people at Exodus. I mean, mentally and emotional IQ are very low. And so if I can give them a test that they can handle, we have Joel. And I love Joel. He came to us. He tried killing himself. He'd been, you know, in an apartment. Very capable. He has a low IQ and a low EQ, but he stuffs all of our envelopes.
Robb Munger (00:20:49) - He organizes a few guys to do it, too. And he does the best job ever. And he now really has a purpose in life. He hasn't been back to our mental health facility in over a year. He hasn't been in an ambulance in over a year because he has a purpose. Those are my really small things that I just love doing. I mean, the leadership thing. Spreadsheets, dashboards are all great. Speaking here is great, but when you can make a difference in somebody's life like that, that has been minimized. I'll tell you what. That's a cherished moment.
Nicole Greer (00:21:31) - Yeah, yeah. So, everybody, listen, I don't want you to miss two things. I want to go back to the thing where he said, you know, the organization was probably run with love and compassion, but not with any kind of business acumen it doesn’t sound like. So one thing. No matter what we're doing, we need to have business acumen and we have to face the facts about how things work.
Nicole Greer (00:21:51) - Like, you know, the income comes in and the expenses go out and then you've got some money left over, and then maybe you have a, like you said, a capital expenditure, a mortgage, a piece of equipment, whatever. And then you have this thing called, you know, cash flow. And so this is absolutely essential that we understand that. And I think a lot of times people get into leadership but they don't see the fact that I got to really figure out how stuff works, you know, like what levers to pull and you know, what KPIs to put on my dashboards. And I think that's essential. So, you've got to have business acumen to run any kind of organization. And I think what you were saying about everybody could see it. One of my favorite concepts in business acumen is open book management. So not only can people see where the money's going, but they can see, you know, how many, like you said, how many were feeding, you know what's going on with that? So, leaders, you've got to be doing the business acumen thing.
Nicole Greer (00:22:45) - Absolutely.
Robb Munger (00:22:48) - I love it. You're, you're, you're preaching to the choir on that one.
Nicole Greer (00:22:53) - Yeah. And then the second thing I think, too, is, you know, is having respect for each other. And so I think sometimes, too, based on how we were raised, like how Tim was raised, and how some probably some of the other gentlemen inside of your organization that are staying with you at the facility, you know, we're all raised differently. And we got told things and we think they're true. And so we have to absolutely undo people's thinking and help them and help them move ahead. But I love that. Now moving ahead. Speaking of moving ahead, Robb, you wrote a book and I have it right here in my hot little hands. Everybody, do you see this is called “Momentum: Getting One's Momentum Back.” So many of you that listen to the show are leadership junkies. And you've probably read John Maxwell's stuff. And so one of his favorite concepts is momentum as well.
Nicole Greer (00:23:43) - Will you talk a little bit about your book, “Momentum?”
Robb Munger (00:23:47) - Yeah. The funny thing is that I wrote that a couple of years, probably a year before I even got involved with Tim. And what was happening was, my real estate development company was doing, I would say, very well. I developed a couple thousand residential lots and then had commercial office buildings and stuff, and it was, oh, early 40s at that age. My finance company, we finance mobile home dealers, and they had gone pretty much nationally. You know, we weren't in all fifty states, but, and it was a fluke thing. And I watched the momentum carry all of my companies and my investments. And then I kept getting requests to meet with people and eventually it was like, what was I charging per hour was too high for a lot of people. And, so I was doing things for free because I felt sorry for them, because here I'm making money and that's, you know, I'm not all business.
Robb Munger (00:24:57) - And so I eventually said, you know what? I'm going to write a book because whether it's business or like the homeless, what I've watched is people get off track. And so if your communication gets off track or your use of alcohol or drugs or let's say you're not physically fit, and you go, well, just one more day of eating at a fast food place and tomorrow I'm going to work out. Well, that one little slip. Like I've had a professional football player at Exodus. I've had an attorney from a prestigious law school at Exodus. I've had an engineer, an airline pilot. I've had numerous business leaders at Exodus. And it was that one little slip and they got off. And then it's hard to get back on. And that's why I like your podcast and everything. It helps keep people centered and learning how to make those course corrections so you don't get off track.
Nicole Greer (00:26:06) - Right? Right. Yeah. I think when people fall off the tracks, they experience a lot of, you know, emotional turmoil, spiritual turmoil.
Nicole Greer (00:26:18) - And then to your point, you know, that they're going to medicate or, use, use the alcohol or whatever it is. It's the coping skill. So, you can get down to a dark hole very, very fast and, and don't miss what he's saying. You know, people with high educations, high IQs, perhaps even high emotional intelligence at some level, they do one little mess up and they're and they're off the tracks. So when you talk to the fellows that stay in your facility and you are working with them and your teams are working with them, how do you help them get their momentum going again? How do they get rolling again?
Robb Munger (00:26:56) - The number one thing is treat them as a person, as a human. And, my method of keeping my momentum going is different than theirs. Okay. So it goes back to going upstream. So I have to find out their story in life and what's happening with them. I can't use my techniques to help them get their momentum back.
Robb Munger (00:27:24) - That's like this. My book, it's, somebody says, well, it's all a bunch of little short stories. And the whole purpose of it is, is because we're all different. There's going to be something in the book, just one item, one nugget. I mean, it's like, what, ten bucks or something on Amazon? It's cheap. I'm like, all you need is one nugget and it takes maybe an hour and a half, two hours to read. I'm always looking to find out where the guy’s at and not trying to put my behaviors and principles on that person, because that's judging. And I didn't realize that until, you know, I've taken this walk by putting my ideals, my principles, my techniques for success on another person. It's not helping them. And so many people don't understand that. It's not helping them. It helps them to walk with them and say, hey, you know what's going on? And they go, I'm having problems, you know, with my eating.
Robb Munger (00:28:25) - Okay, well, you want to go out to lunch? Sure. Well, I'll take them to, we have a Cora Life around here and it's good healthy food. I said let's go to Cora Life. And they're like, I've never had a salad. Well, let's do it for today. I ask them, I don't tell them. I ask them questions. So this versus a, you know, a hamburger from a fast food place, you know, how are you feeling about this? Well, this is actually good. So I didn't have to put the principals on them. They get to discover it for themselves, and they get to judge if it's good. And then the next day I'll say, how did you feel after, you know, going out to lunch? Robb I didn't have that stomach bloat. I felt better. I said, how do you sleep? Well, I slept better. I go, okay. And so walking along somebody's in it takes, you know, I'd love to just knock out a list of to do's to that person and then I can treat them like an object because then I can manage my day.
Robb Munger (00:29:31) - I got my set time and I can move on. That's not how people are set up. They're not objects. So that's why walking along with them and then doing things in a way that we're not judging them, which, you know, it's been a struggle for me because I'm like, you know, you know.
Nicole Greer (00:29:48) - Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Let's go, people. Work hard.
Robb Munger (00:29:51) - It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, fast food is bad for you, you know?
Nicole Greer (00:29:56) - Yeah. What are you, stupid?
Robb Munger (00:29:59) - Yeah and that's the internal, you know, you go back to being a kid and you, that's the internal stupid judging that I have. And I go, okay, but that's not who I want to be as a human, to treat people that way. So then I doggone, I gotta think. And I don't know about you, but a lot of times I like to, you know, fall back on lazy, simple, easy, and so as a leader, I have to go, oh, wait a second.
Robb Munger (00:30:26) - I have to think. And I have to see what's best for that person, best for the organization. And so I can't fall back to easy, simple, and quick. I actually have to. I actually have to have a relationship with people and see what I can help them with.
Nicole Greer (00:30:47) - Yeah, yeah. And I love what you're saying. You say you're saying we have to stop and think. And I think the thing we need to think about is what would be, everybody who's listening to the podcast knows I'm a big fan of coaching. And what we learn in coaching is to ask a really good question that gets the other person thinking, you know, it's like you have to think very, very hard about how to get the other person thinking and, so that they discover it for themselves. Robb Munger says, I love that.
Robb Munger (00:31:18) - You're going to have me clapping here. Fantastic. Well, I mentor some younger people and I'll say that's a stupid question.
Robb Munger (00:31:30) - And, they go, well, my teacher, my parents said there's never a stupid question. I said, asking me permission to go to the bathroom as a grown adult is a stupid question. I go what I make, you know, per hour on a revenue basis. To ask a question of somebody like me if you can go to the bathroom is an absolutely stupid question. Or can I get a bottle of water and, you know, the refrigerator is in our conference room and you've kind of before that's a stupid question. Ask really, really hard strategic or tactical questions and then you can get the nuggets. But if you're going to not ask really good questions, you're limiting your potential and your learning potential. And so there are dumb questions and, you know, maybe the teachers don't want to let you know that because of your self-esteem. But that's, you know, I'm not trying to hurt people's self-esteem. I'm saying we need to raise up those good questions. Good questions will change people's lives in our organization.
Nicole Greer (00:32:44) - Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think maybe the kids that are asking that or the young people that are asking that, like, I'm 58, I call everybody a kid, I gotta stop it. So I'll ask all these young people, you know, what's, you know, may I go to the bathroom or whatever. I mean, I just maybe they just had really good parents that taught them manners. I don't know, but, you know, you're an adult now, so take care of yourself. All right. So you have one chapter in the book, it’s chapter three. So I just want to do one of these little things in here. So it says the gazelle theory. So many times we act like animals. It says gazelles feel a threat as a lion sneaks into their territory. This disturbance initiates the herd to move in a new direction, which sometimes causes a stampede. In most cases, the threat is very real, but not for the entire herd. As the lion assesses the herd, he ultimately focuses only on one gazelle.
Nicole Greer (00:33:36) - Still, as one of the lookout gazelles issues a warning to the entire herd, they move with anticipation and velocity. This example is similar to what's going on in our world. The movement is called the herd theory. All right. So, talk a little bit about the gazelle theory. I'd like for you to kind of bloom that out a little bit for us.
Robb Munger (00:34:02) - Give you an example. Had a gentleman at Exodus Place. And this isn't in the business realm, and I've used, was meaning it in the business realm when I wrote it, but had a gentleman, and this guy's 320 pounds and just a beast of a man. Nicer than nice. Okay, but he was a gang banger at Exodus Place. Guy comes up to him, and because he was used to being in a gang. Okay, so he had a gang mentality, which is like a herd. And the mentality is, you know, we beat up, hurt ,and, you know, you can't be disrespected or anything.
Robb Munger (00:34:46) - And so this, this little guy, mouths off to him. He's probably 155 pounds. And Anthony goes berserk. He's going to just beat him and I go, no, you can't beat him. You just got out of prison. Okay, I'm here to keep you out of prison. And he goes, no, my brothers and everything, we have to do this. And mentally he was in this herd, okay. And so, the herd mentality was controlling his behavior still. And I said, Anthony, you can't do it. You will go back to jail. Then they're going to take you to prison. And eventually I was finally able to calm down. And this guy could have broke me like a twig, you know? I mean, I think he was 500 pounds for, I mean, he was just a massive fella. And, but I saw the good in him. So I brought them back to their classroom. I said, hey, you know what's going on? And we went upstream and started talking about it, and, he goes, well, I want to hurt people before they hurt me.
Robb Munger (00:36:06) - And I said, Anthony, the guy is 155 pounds. I said, you know, I lift, I'm physical, you're going to beat me up. I mean, are you really that scared? Let's put it right together. And so that herd theory because that gang theory was getting him into such a mental hostage position, he was staying with the herd. And so I said, you know, where were you at? He goes, Robb, I got picked on as a kid. And the gang, my brothers, you know, they protected me. And so he was still a little child.
Nicole Greer (00:36:47) - Yeah. In this big, giant body.
Robb Munger (00:36:49) - Yeah, but, and that's where that herd, you know, and like, let's just say, when I wrote the book, it was in reference to having a lot of money. And then also all of a sudden there's scarcity in the business economy. And, and then, you know, I met with some wealthy people and they started having that scarcity.
Robb Munger (00:37:14) - And I go, wait a second, how's your businesses doing? How's your real estate doing? How's your personal net worth doing? Well, great, great, great. But you gotta understand!
Nicole Greer (00:37:27) - There's a housing problem, right? The finance thing, it's all upside down.
Robb Munger (00:37:31) - Yeah. And I predominantly work with just men who I'm consulting, but, and they're like, but this is where it's going. And I said, but look at your dashboard. Where is it going? And that's like, if you're in that herd and you, you think you're going to go there, well, that herd can take you over the cliff, because all of a sudden you start freezing up and making stupid choices. Then all of a sudden you become one of the weakest gazelles and you get picked off. And so the objective is to be able to step outside the herd, think for yourself, whether it's financial like I said last night, bullying is to step out, you know? Hey, this is not a healthy, business or government climate just because this is the direction people want to go.
Robb Munger (00:38:26) - That doesn't make it right. And so we always have to be looking at, okay, where are we at really in the situation. And we don't have to follow the herd.
Nicole Greer (00:38:38) - Yeah I love that. And at the end of the chapter you said, when evaluating your own circumstances, slow down, discover your passion, focus on it, get intentional, and then add some velocity or momentum toward achieving it. And then with the steps of intentional velocity, you can respond quicker to the ever changing situation, economy, gang situation, whatever soup you're in. Right. Okay, everybody, this is Robb Munger's book, “Momentum,” full of little stories and concepts like the herd mentality. What did you want to say?
Robb Munger (00:39:13) - Well, one of my big things. I work with people. They'll get pretty cranked up. Or with children, I'll say, slow down and relax, because, you know, we all get in those. I don't know about you. Maybe I'm the only one, but I get those days where I have one too many things on my agenda.
Robb Munger (00:39:32) - Let's say my schedule is laid out, and then all of a sudden there's a couple extras and the anxiety gets going. And I have to say, nope, I gotta slow down, relax, and not get sucked in because I need to have that good, clear vision of what's actually going on, not what I'm perceiving to go on.
Nicole Greer (00:39:53) - Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But you know, and what I'm also hearing you say is this whole thing about the herd mentality is there's this is a very old fashion. It's sometimes considered like a religious word, but like, we need to just we need some time for discernment. So it's not like, you know, we need to problem solve, be a critical thinker right now. It's not this, you know.
Nicole Greer (00:40:13) - Oh, energy.
Nicole Greer (00:40:14) - You know, it's more like, let's just sit here a minute and just. And like you said, a little while back in our conversation, let's think about things. Hold on. So I think that's really important. That's a huge leadership skill is just to stop and think.
Robb Munger (00:40:28) - Exactly. We all like to go to react and task because those are the two lowest denominators on a scale where you got investor, strategic, tactical, task, and react. And so when you're busy, you want to do a task or react to avoid the tactical thing or the strategic item. And so, as humans, we do that because it's an easy button, but it doesn't really get us to where we want to be.
Nicole Greer (00:41:05) - Yeah. Yeah. And I think oftentimes that react and that task is something that we shouldn't be doing. Well it's a distraction. It's a time waster. It's some ego trip we’re on, I don't know.
Robb Munger (00:41:21) - Oh well, I explained to my guys at Exodus because Exodus was created after I left Guiding Light because Guiding Light didn't want to take on this project, and I took it on myself with four homeless guys. And, so I'm always teaching my managers and stuff, and I explain reacting to my managers because we got a lot of guys with PTSD, ADHD, and everything else.
Robb Munger (00:41:48) - There's a lot of reacting at our facility. And so I'm always having to teach the managers. Managers are in the tactical task. I said the reacting is the guy when we're driving our truck up to pick up a donation, the reactor is the one in the passenger seat that when we stop, we say, hey, it's time to get out. Okay, they aren't planning anything. They're being completely directed in a reactive manner. So if you're going to drive your organization or you're going to be a leader and you're going to be sitting in the passenger seat not getting chauffeured around, but you're the one that's going to be going out to hold the other end of the bed frame that you're lifting into the truck. They are reactor you. You will not be wealthy. I guarantee you. You will never be wealthy as a reactor. I mean, only if somebody dies, gives you money, you hit the lottery. But even with that, you'll end up losing all of your money. So you have to be careful not to get into that reactive mode and justifying.
Robb Munger (00:42:55) - The other thing is my new managers will justify and I go, you can keep justifying just it's not going to change it. It's reacting. It's a horrible thing. You do have to react to avoid an accident. But if you drive your car like you're going to avoid an accident all the time, you'll probably be in an accident. So you need to to think through to a task or tactile level at least.
Nicole Greer (00:43:27) - Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. So, Robb, if people want to support the work that you're doing, what would they do?
Robb Munger (00:43:36) - Go to www.exodusplace.org. Our contact page, our donation page is right there. I'm just starting to put together some speaking engagements and opening up for that and some high level coaching now. And that site is www.robbmunger.com. That's very limited because I do have a considerable amount of time I'm at Exodus and then also my real estate development company keeps expanding so that takes up some time too.
Nicole Greer (00:44:12) - Okay. All right. Well get your name in the hat to get a chance to sit down with Robb Munger and sit at his feet. Learn all about how to gain momentum and how he has, you know, taken his life and he's following a passion. I think that's for real estate and developing that, you know, that just that stuff just gets in your blood. And then, of course, he's got a heart for other men so that they can live a more, what I like to call, vibrant life. All right. And if you want to live a more vibrant life, pick up the phone and call Robb. Go to his website. www.robbmunger.com or pick up the phone and call me. Or get on my website at www.vibrantculture.com. We'd both love to help you. Robb, it's been a delight. I know everybody's like, wait, does Robb have one more nugget for me? Do you have one final word or a little something you'd leave us with so that they get, you know, like one more bite of dessert here.
Robb Munger (00:45:02) - Oh, boy, right now, I'm just feeling thankful for meeting you. I mean, that's the nugget.
Nicole Greer (00:45:09) - Thank you.
Robb Munger (00:45:11) - What you're doing and what you're leading and sharing this with people is, just. It changes lives. So, thank you.
Nicole Greer (00:45:20) - Yeah. You're welcome. All right, everybody, this has been another episode of Build a Vibrant Culture. Get a copy of “Momentum" by Robb Munger, and we will see you back here. Same bat channel. See you later, everybody. Thanks, Robb.
[a]@nicole@vibrantcoaching.com @teri@vibrantculture.com
Please note that this transcript will not match up with the Zoom meeting video. I edited that video.
This is the video file the transcript is based off of:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZRF99ZIMk7qiFTCJ4dmh4GjxO6QjVlwA/view?usp=drive_link
Let me know if edits were made based on watching the Zoom video rather than the edited version, if so the transcript changes that were made will be off.
Thanks so much!