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Welcome to Shoerack -- a podcast about walking in other people's shoes.
Each episode, I sit down with members and roles of a community to learn how they see the world, what unique things they bring, and the challenges they face. I want to highlight how love for a community manifests itself in all kinds of expression, and how we can learn to appreciate and celebrate that.
Season 1 dives into the Gaming and Anime communities.
Hey there, guys. This is John Lee. I am the host of a new podcast series called Shoe Rack, and this is my first ever episode. Before we begin the first episode, I kinda wanted to give you all a brief understanding of what Shoe Rack is about. Shoe Rack is a podcast where I want to understand what it's like to walk in other people's shoes.
John:Each person has a different pair of shoes. Each pair of shoes kind of serves a different purpose. So I wanted to gather stories from these people so I can understand their walks of life better and how that ultimately enriches the community that they're a part of. During my time knowing Dennis, our first guest, I got to see a lot of that firsthand where he provided a lot of richness in understanding anime community and the gaming community, not just as a fan, but also as someone that wants to create community, wants to start a business. And now with Gamers Heaven Bay Area, he succeeded.
John:This podcast episode is in conjunction with the launch of Gamers Heaven Bay Area. And I just wanted to say a huge congratulations to him and the team. What they've done is incredible, and I can't wait to see what they have in store for us. To celebrate this milestone, I wanted to provide him a platform for him to kind of speak his heart on why he wanted to create Gamera seven Bay Area and all the challenges that it took to get there, all the motivations it took to get there, and all the things that perhaps people like you and me might not quite see. So without further ado, why don't we tune in to today's episode?
John:Hey, y'all. Welcome to the first ever episode of this podcast. I'm your host, John Lee, and I'm joined today with a lovely guest from the anime community. It's my good friend and small business owner, Dennis Yu. Hey.
John:What's up, guys? How are you all doing? Sweet. The objective of the podcast today is we kinda wanna talk a little bit more about what he does as a small business owner, what he does as the franchise owner, the creator of a particular Bay Area branch of his company, and also the various different kind of challenges and tasks and things he has to worry about as a small business owner within this community. So first, Dennis, why don't you take it away a little bit more and tell us a little bit more about
Dennis:Yeah, man.
John:We do and all that stuff. Yeah.
Dennis:Oh, boy. Okay. So I grew up in Log no. Just kidding. First of all, thank you for having me on.
Dennis:I think this is a lot of fun as a project to think through how the various aspects of a community can come together. It's a great opportunity, I think, for us to kinda think through all of the different sides of the world. Think about all of, like, the many different paths that get people to this place. So kind of taking a page out of the out of, like, that notion of walking someone else's shoes. Like, we wanna be able to kinda think through, like, okay.
Dennis:Like, what does it take to be a cosplayer? What does it take to be an influencer in in this space? And, like, what does it take to be someone who is an artist?
John:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Because I think, like, for me, I actually am pretty new into the the anime scene. I only got into it because my wife was a cosplayer, and I think Mhmm.
John:It's only been, I think, three years since I've been kind of involved and actually met you, Dennis, like two years ago. You know, you were originally a photographer when I first met you during COVID, and now you kind of pivoted to something else. And during my initial time of anime, it was like I was mostly just a congoer. My wife, girlfriend at the time was a cosplayer. So kind of understanding what that entails.
John:And there's a lot for me to kind of just understand and learn about what kind of responsibilities and what grabs their time. And then they interact with photographers and like, where does that all go? Yeah. I think it's really interesting because what often when I hear some of her friends and my friends in the game to make me that built, you often hear just like conversations about like, you know, why did x or y do certain things, or why did a and b do something to c and d, either something with, like, shoots having problems or maybe, like, not quite understanding why a photographer did something this way versus another way, or maybe why Artist Alley doesn't take in certain people, or why Artist Alley sells certain things, or why small business owners sell certain things. So all these conversations, I just felt like it would be a good idea to have have me kind of listen and hear a little bit more from everyone else and like, oh, I am actually pretty new to this community.
John:Maybe anyone else is listening in that's not a part of this community or has been part of the community for a long time can get an understanding as well on on fields that they're not quite experts in.
Dennis:Yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's funny.
Dennis:Right? Because, like, I think about how I fell into this community in the first place. Right? Which is like, I think back to when I first started watching anime, which was back in the days of, like, YouTube wasn't even purchased by Google at the time. You were searching for, like, Naruto season one episode three part 72.
Dennis:Yeah. Right. Because, like, because, like, YouTube was, like, only only doing, like, five, ten minutes at a time. So I I I grew up in that world. Right?
Dennis:Like, I grew up in the you wake up at 7AM to watch, like, the latest four kids edition of Pokemon. I only had a handful of friends that were into anime at the time. And so for all intents and purposes, it was, like, actually very much like a solo endeavor. But I distinctly remember watching Cartoon Network, watching Toonami, seeing, like it was, like, the essentially, like, the same three, four animes at the same time. It was like Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho.
Dennis:It's funny because, like, I used to go to Chinatown to, like, get, like, bootleg seat bootleg like
John:like Yeah.
Dennis:DVDs. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And and, like, that's how I got my anime content.
Dennis:And, like, I I knew nothing about, like, the the convention scenes. I knew very vaguely about the New York Comic Cons of the world, the San Diego Comic Cons. But what I didn't realize with their that there was, like, this, like, whole undercurrent of all of these, like, different gatherings and whatnot that you could actually attend and share with other people. So it's actually kinda interesting to me now that I'm older and looking back. I'm like, oh, that didn't actually have to be this, like, solo endeavor of, like, trying to find new animes to watch.
Dennis:And I could have actually, like, found more friends probably during that time. Mean, not not that not that I was, like, devoid of friends, but, like, I ended up going into other interests because I didn't find, like, the right critical mass of people to enjoy Yes. Anime with. So I ended up I ended up going off and, like, going watching other things. It wasn't until COVID that I was just like, alright.
Dennis:I guess I got I got a ton of time on my hands. I'm gonna go rewatch some stuff. And then so I started I started watching, and then at the same time, I had gotten into photography. And I did get into photography because of anime, but I got into photography around the same time. And then, like, I vaguely knew about cosplay because my my sister was a cosplayer.
Dennis:So I I understood the, like, the craftsmanship that went into it and the the effort, frankly, that would go into that sort of stuff, but I I didn't I I wasn't part of that world yet. Fast forward to 2021. It's a year after COVID. Everyone's starting to get their shots. Everyone's starting to come out of their metaphorical shell.
Dennis:And I remember hearing about fanime for the first time. And I'm like, it's kinda like New York Comic Con. I had been to New York Comic Con a few times. I I cosplayed myself. So I, like, I fell into this world almost accidentally because it was just like one thing led to another, and I just, like, kept shooting cosplays.
Dennis:And I kept really enjoying getting into like these these storylines in these Also the like the why behind people were like, oh, I was like, I love this particular series. I have cosplayed like I am going to be the best Sailor Venus that I can possibly be. I realized that there were that there were more people out there that had that level of, like, fandom. I think this is probably the best way to put it, like, that right level of fandom that I'm like, oh, this is kinda nice. Like, I actually like doing all this stuff with these people.
Dennis:And so that's kind of like how I kept going forward into it and realizing that now is the time that like all the things that I thought that were were like niche are now becoming like a little bit more accessible and a little bit more like regularly accepted. If I think about that like that pathway into back into anime, it was, like, it was something that was a very formative part of my childhood, went away for a while, and then came back with a vengeance. Because, like, now now I'm, like, fully invested in it. Right? Like, I I I ended up doing a lot in terms of, like, cosplay photography.
Dennis:Photography. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Really enjoyed it. And I think now come to enjoy shooting for myself.
Dennis:When I think about, like, the friends that I've met through this, like, anime community, it's it's truly from, like, all walks of life. That's more or less, like, that's kind of, like, where, like, I I've started to come come to, like, really appreciate the anime community. We can all come together Yeah. For an appreciation of, like, this is, like, this is what we're here for. For, like, this, like, seventy two hours of time, all we're talking about is, like, this, like, one shared interest.
Dennis:And then we all go back to our to our, like, different worlds, so to speak. Like, it's kinda like an isekai. That's really cool to me. There's multidimensionality to, like, the community that we have.
John:It's very rare, I think, to see people from all walks of life come to enjoy something together. I feel like a lot of maybe this is my experience. I think a lot of hobbies I see tend to grab a certain demographic. But like in the anime community, you've got people, you know, our teachers, the baristas, the real estate agents, all these kind of things. And then when we are able to talk about life and we're talking about like, you know, what are the things that we're going through when we get deeper into the the hobby and into, like, you know, the interpersonal connections and stuff.
John:It's super interesting to hear a lot of life that I haven't experienced yet and, like, kind of the wisdom that you get from various walks.
Dennis:When you think about, like, how friends are made, growing up, your friends in high school are by virtue of proximity. Sure. There there is a very good chance that some of them will serve were will stay with you for life. You hear that all the time. Like, oh, high school sweethearts, getting married, blah blah blah.
Dennis:Right? Like, you hear you hear about those things. For some of us, we go to college. For those of us who go to college, we have the structure of school, clubs, and classes. Or even if you don't go immediately to college, like, how do you how do you find friends?
Dennis:And you find friends through, like, shared hobbies, shared activity, or third spaces or the lack thereof. So you find you find those, like, those sorts of friendships just by virtue of, like, frequency of meeting these people and then, like, also just shared identity. The number of friends I've had I've met at, like, random anime conventions and then ended up, like, staying in touch with them afterwards is actually far higher than I ever expected. Like, I met I met you and your wife at a what was it, like a photo shoot? It's a random photo shoot.
John:Yeah. Random cosplay gathering. I remember, I think I was wearing like Okabe from like SteinsGate or something. Yeah. Yeah.
John:I'm not a really big cosplayer, but it's
Dennis:super easy. I just remember walking up to the two of you because, like, that's because I think you you guys look really calm. And I was just like yeah. I That's so funny. And and and to to anyone who has ever been to a like a cosplay photo meetup like knows what I'm talking about when everyone is running around doing everything And It's pretty hectic.
Dennis:You two were just chill. And so it's like it was really nice being able to walk up to you, have like a proper conversation, and then be like, hey, can I take your photo? Because I like your cosplays. Like, that was always that that was always that always struck me as, like, an interesting thing that, like, I look back on. I'm like, that's it's funny how how, like, these friendships form.
Dennis:Because, like, then afterwards, like, we end up finding more things that we had in common. We could talk about philosophy and be in a position of respect of, like, hey, like, there are there are things that we have, like, very differing views on. But, like, there there's a certain level of of respect that goes into it. Right?
John:Yeah. I will say I think I resonate a lot with the idea of seeing friends or just being surprised by having friendships that last for a long time, even if, like, cons are the only place you've seen them or and it may be in kinda like the central point of of interest. Right? Or a central common point. So I actually like, my wife and I joke about this a lot where I feel like I made my first, like, real, like, con con friends earlier this year.
John:And I think I've actually seen
Dennis:Oh, yeah.
John:Yes. Like, I I remember it was ALA of 2024. Wackiest year. It was so crazy. Usually, I go to these cons.
John:I'm, like, not I like it. It's, like, fun. Right? It's, like, a great shopping. I picked up some card games just so I can play around in them.
John:But, like, usually, like, after after a day or so, get kinda bored, and I'm like, okay. I don't really cosplay. I kind of exhausted all the artist alley in Exhibit Hall, so I'm not really sure what to do now. But I think this year, like, I remember encountering some cosplayers who had, like, the bravery to ask us for a picture. We were cosplaying from Attack on Titan.
John:And it turns out that brief little, like, connection turned out to be, like, a friendship where we would basically just stick with each other the entire con. And we were so connected that I think at the end of the con first, we got dinner together, like, twice. And then at the end of the con, we all went to karaoke together because it's like, oh, like, this is a magical weekend. Like, we all had a really good time. And I actually think during those conversations, like, we moved past the the the anime interest.
John:We moved into I learned that these people cared a lot about their friends, and they also had, like, a friend group that they manage. And it's like, oh, they care a lot about how do we make sure people in our friend group get along? How do we make sure people from various different friends groups all get along? And that that was, like, a really riveting conversation. We probably talked for, like, an hour and a half on this.
John:Mhmm. But, yeah, it's a shame because I think I wish they live far away. Right? That that's the thing with cons. Like, you got people from all over, even the nation sometimes coming in.
John:So you might meet someone that's, like, super dank, super cool. But, you know, I've seen them a grand total of, like, three or four times. I still think they're, like, one of my greatest friends, and I I treasure them immensely. And every time I have the opportunity to visit them, I will. But I wish we had the ability to just kinda, like, connect more on a more frequent basis to kind of keep that keep that fire going.
Dennis:Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, I I I would feel the same way. Actually, watch watching you with those friends, it like, you can you can tell. Right?
Dennis:Like, there there are some people where, when you meet them, it just clicks. I I think that and I think that's that's part of the reason why I started moving like, trying to find, like, new ways to kinda, like, group people together. And I as in some ways, through photography, it was actually really nice to be able to kinda, like, work with people and, like, meet people in in of of actually a very personal way. Because, like, there there's a there's this thing in, like, photography where, like, you try to actually, like, get to know them as you're taking their photo. There's taking a photo, and then there's, like, there's, like, fully laying out the scene.
Dennis:And part of this is, yeah, like, they're they're playing a character and, like, you you wanna bring that character to life, but then there's also a person behind that too. And you you wanna be able to make sure that, like, you understand, like, why they are trying to portray that character as well. Sometimes it's truly just like, I just like the character. And like that, that's perfectly fine. But then there are some people that, like, the character actually, like, truly does mean something to them.
Dennis:And you wanna make sure that, like, that is properly represented composition. Right? And so being able to have, like, those, like, deeper conversations, it's hard to do that in, like, a seventy two hour time span of of a convention. Right? Yeah.
Dennis:Like, there are only so many hours. The like, there's only so much that you can do within that time frame. And so what I started realizing is that I was like, okay, like, if the thing that I want is for is to have these sorts of connections with people Mhmm. Then photography is great for that. It's very one to one.
Dennis:It's very deep. Right. But then I I I won't necessarily, one, be able to have the same level of, like, oh, I wanna meet people. But then also on the on the flip side, it's like, within that compressed time frame, I can't also help other people meet people that might be interesting. Right?
Dennis:Like, by sheer happenstance, you happen to find a group of people that you genuinely enjoy. Mhmm. And, like, that's, like, that's just, like, the randomness of life.
John:Fate fate just happened.
Dennis:Yeah. Fate just happened and boom, like Right. Boom. You you you just made, like, some, like, really great friends.
John:Yeah.
Dennis:But, like, if we were able to figure that out in something that was not just, like, compressed seventy two two hour span, that's magical. Like, that's what that's when when we start thinking about, like, how do we think how do we make a better society? That's that's how we're going to do it. Mhmm. Now there was this concept of the third space by a by a gentleman called Ray Oldenburg.
Dennis:And the third space, which is for those of you who aren't familiar, so your first space is your home. Your second space is your work. Your third space is supposed to be a, like, a social gathering space where you can interact with people and just be a greater part of, like, the the broader social fabric of your society. Uh-huh. And so, like, you can think of it as the the old Main Street.
Dennis:Everybody would be like, oh, hey, Joe. You're here you're back here for your bottle of soda or something like that. Right? Like, your daily bottle of soda. Right?
Dennis:It's like Cheers, where everyone knows your name. Right? That neighborhood bar, that neighborhood barber shop, that neighborhood butcher, that neighborhood plant lady. Right? Like, that sort of stuff.
Dennis:But we have largely erased that in favor of the the Targets, the Costcos, the Walmarts of the world. Right?
John:I think a lot of it is efficiency now too. Right?
Dennis:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And, like, and, like, ecommerce had like, I mean, co COVID definitely did not help. But, like, ecommerce, the rise of ecommerce has has has changed what Main Street USA is supposed
John:to So
Dennis:when I think when I was, like, thinking through that of, okay. Like, how do I how do I actually, like, get people to kinda come back together and and and interact? That's kind of where, like, this idea of, like, oh, okay. Like, I can we can build that. Like, if if it was if it existed before, it can exist again.
Dennis:That rabbit hole eventually led me to Gamers Heaven, which had been in business on the East Coast in in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania for Uh-huh. I guess now going into our tenth year. And so thinking about, like, the the environment that they had created and, like, the the Gen Z term of, like, the, like, the vibes that they're creating. Right? Like, that's the sort of thing that that I wanted to bring to the Bay Area.
Dennis:And so that's kind of why we're building that in Santa Clara. So this way we can actually think through, okay, like, how do how do we start to get people to interact on a regular basis? It should be okay that you come in and you can express your interest in a safe environment. There are so many different places that you can express your interest and it's not safe, so we might as well create one that is. We should create a world where, like, you can find those, like, lifelong friends without having to wait once a year to be able to interact with these people.
Dennis:Right? Even in the Bay, there are some people who I will only see them at the convention that is also in the Bay. And it's like, no. Like, I wanna be able to have that experience whenever whenever it happens. So And
John:even more than that too, can imagine how a gamer's heaven is a place where right now, cons are very, like, almost like one off events. Like, are schedules, but it's like for a particular spot in California or anywhere in the world. Right. There's like one ax that happens every year. It's a very like scheduled thing.
John:Right. And there's not it's not a recurring theme and kind of like how you're mentioning in your like when you were younger. Right. Like you wanted an avenue to be able to have, like, the ability to enjoy anime that the way you did. Because you said you like, when you were younger, you really liked watching that stuff, but you just didn't have friends to kind of hang out with you on Yeah.
John:On for taking into that hobby. And if you only have like a con a year that you're able to go to, like, doesn't really last. So I can see how, like, it's it's a combination of both getting more and more instances of, like, these magical friendships happening, but also a safe space for those people that are interested in anime to actually have a space to be able to go and find friends in that realm Mhmm. Without having to wait for, like, a con that takes place outside of the city, out of state. You have to spend a lot of money to go to.
John:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's
Dennis:super cool. And it's it's interesting, actually. And and through, like, the almost two years that we've been kinda doing this thing, because as part of our as part of our activation, right, like, we went to these shows and made a presence for ourselves and interacted with members of our community. Right? Because, again, like, this is more or less one of the few ways that we have the ability to reach people en masse.
Dennis:And so it's interesting to see all the different people that have, like, come up to us being, we want the ability to be able to kinda, like, come in, hang out, enjoy people's company. And it's interesting to to see the different types of people. Right? Like, some of it is, like, young 20 who are in college and they just wanna have a place to come and hang out. Some of them are some of them are, like like me, like old, like, o g, like, anime.
Dennis:Like yeah. I'm not even I'm not even, like, o g anime. Like, there there are definitely anime that's, like, way earlier than me. But, like, thinking through, like, oh, like, there's some people who, like, look back and they'd be, like, man, like, I I wish I had this growing up. Yeah.
Dennis:But now that it's here, I wanna be able to partake. And then you also have, like, some some of the people who are I I had a gentleman come up to me at one of our events and was just like, I don't understand this anime thing, but I know that my daughter loves it. And so I wanna support my daughter. I don't know how. Tell me how to Right.
Dennis:Those it's like those moments. That's what we're working for. That's the stuff where it's like, no. Like, I I wanna be able to help this this parent support their child. Because the parent has no idea what they're like, what's going on.
Dennis:But, like, they were humble enough to come up and say, hey, I have no idea what's going on. Like, can you just let me know, like, which one I I should get for my kid? They just wanted they just wanna be there support. And, like, I love seeing that. The number of the number of families that have come out, like, it's just become because it's becoming more of a a mainstream thing, it's great to be able to, like, see these people kind of, like, interact with each other.
Dennis:Yeah. One thing that was actually interesting. Right? Because, again, Gamers Heaven as a brand is is or actually, the the Pennsylvania store has been, like, open for, like, nine some odd years. There was actually a show that I came out that that was on the on the West Coast that one of their customers happened to be in the Bay Area for that show, and they came up to me and they're like, hey, you don't know us, but we've been following you the entire time.
Dennis:And lo and behold, the kid that was there actually, wasn't even a kid. He was 18. He was there at the Gamers Heaven on day one, and, like, Andrew, the CEO, literally watched him grow up. It's wild because it's like when I, like, when I talk to like, I I send I send a picture of of them. Like, I took a selfie with them and sends it back to, like, the the Phoenixville team.
Dennis:And they're like, wait. Is he going to college now? And like, it's wild. Right? Because like when you think about that, like, the the longevity of being able to see someone literally go from like like elementary school
John:Mhmm.
Dennis:All the way up to college and then and and beyond. Like, that's wild. There's this one gentleman in the Phoenixville store. Every time I go actually, it's it's funny. I I love this guy.
Dennis:I I unfortunately, his name escapes me at the moment, but every time I go, he will he will tell me two things. One, that they never have Diet Mountain Dew. Oh, no. And and two and, like, and that I should order Diet Mountain Dew. And two, that the that he was the first person that held Andrew's child that, like, wasn't part of his family.
Dennis:That's what we're working for. Right? Like, that that sense of, like, that, like, that sense of family and that sense of community. Like, that's the sort of stuff that, like, I I love seeing.
John:Do you feel like during your time, like, either at Phoenixville with Andrew or what during your time booting, how often do you feel like these people are yearning for some sort of connection? Right? Like, how often do you feel like these people are are looking for someone to kinda, like, hear them or, like you know? You know what I mean?
Dennis:Yeah. I think it's I think it's like an unspoken thing. You want to be surrounded. Like, the p the people that come in and come back are the people that want that sort of connection. And, like, you can see it that, like, sure, they may not necessarily be in every day.
Dennis:Right. But, like, when they're there, they're there. Mhmm. And I think it's like, those are, like, the sorts of things that when we think about, like, the the overall impact of of gamers having, I mean, like, the overall impact of, like, just the work that we do, those are the things that keep us from saying, like, yeah, like yeah. Maybe maybe, like, on a maybe on, like, a random off day.
Dennis:Right? Like, we might just be like, oh, man. Like, that was a rough day, and, like, we're like, the this was this was just, a a rough project. But you'll have, like, those moments where you're just like, no. Actually, like, yeah.
Dennis:Sure. It was a rough day. But, like, someone was, like like, we were able to help somebody.
John:We transformed to life, potentially. We transformed to life.
Dennis:We we, like, we we connected with somebody. Sure. Like, obviously, like, still bills to pay, but there is, like, almost, like, a second bottom line that we have to consider, and it's, like, the the impact of, like, this sort of work on people's lives.
John:Have there been things that make it hard to kind of to build this thing or to kinda realize this vision?
Dennis:Yeah. Absolutely. So I think Yeah. When we think about the word struggle, I think it might be a little too intense. I think the the every everybody goes through challenges that they need to kinda work through.
Dennis:When I think about the thing that that impacts me the most is that everyone's very excited. And you have to assume good intent when when people come up and, like, ask about, like, hey. Like, when's this gonna happen? When's this gonna happen? Because it's like as much as I would love to have it have it happen right now, there's a lot of things that have to go into it to make sure that this is like a sustainable enterprise.
Dennis:Right?
John:Like Yeah.
Dennis:People will only get snippets of the of, like, the progress. All of a sudden, they're just be like, okay. So, like, why isn't it open tomorrow? And it's like, well, like, I have to get permits from the city. I have to, like, I have to do x y z.
Dennis:Like, we have to find a place that's not going to completely destroy us on rent. There are so many different things that have to happen before we are ready to even have the conversation of, like, is there a space that's ready? I appreciate, like, when people have that level of enthusiasm. And it's interesting to see the reactions when when, like, we start explaining some of, like, the hey. Like, there actually is some stuff that, like, prevents us from doing x y z.
Dennis:And, like, when you think about, like, the the straw like, the the stuff that we have to go through, a lot of it is planning. Right? A lot of it is finding the, like, the right opportunity to do stuff. Because as much as I would love to just drop it down and just go, we don't want to be in a position where we we, like, we operate for a year and then we fizzle out. Right?
Dennis:Yeah. 90% of businesses of of, like, food services businesses fail within two years.
John:So, like, what kind of support do you usually have? Like, when when kind of building this this company, right, or when when establishing kinda, like, the foundation for this, like, did you have good support from other folks that, like, did understand, or did you have people that try to try to understand you a little bit?
Dennis:Yeah. No.
John:What was that? It's funny when you it's funny when
Dennis:you mentioned that. Right? Like, there are some challenges that are solely mine. There there are some situations that are, like, very California specific. Like, California is great at just creating rules that no other state has.
Dennis:Right? Like so there's, like, there's some things that I'll bring up to, like, the broader Gamers Heaven team, and they'll be like, oh, we've never faced that before. Like, I just gotta figure it out. Right? But I think that through the process of doing all these shows, right, like, they're actually, taking a backtrack for a second.
Dennis:Right? When you go to a convention, there are there are different types of attendees. There's the typical con goer. Right? Like, the like, they're there to be entertained.
Dennis:Mhmm. Then there are those people who are going there to work. And, like, it's a very different convention experience for those who are going to work. And, like, there is a very different experience that for those people that that come in. Right?
Dennis:Like, there's a certain level of camaraderie that happens. Right? Like, if you see someone that's, like, hungover, you give them a bottle of water. Right? Like, it was like, oh, shoot.
Dennis:Like, can you break a 10? Because I need I need some, like, pocket changes. Like, yeah, sure. Immediately. But done.
Dennis:And I met some great people along the way that have that have been, like, great support in in terms of, like, some of the support that I need. Honestly, some sometimes it just comes down to commiseration. It's like the the Reddit, like, am I the a hole? Right? Like, am I, like, hey, like, this situation came up.
Dennis:Am I am I the jerk? Yeah. Like and so it's it's been nice to be able to talk to people, like, across the industry. Right? Like, whether it's the anime stuff, whether it's, oh, hey, like, this person has gone through lease negotiations before.
Dennis:Like, what it like, what are some of the things that they learned. Right? Or, like, hey, like, what are some of the things that, like, like, what insurance company do you use? Who's your tax accountant? Right?
Dennis:Like like, those sorts of questions. It's like, you can't just ask like an average person. Like, the like, the average person doesn't have the answer to that. So it's nice to be able to, like, talk to people and have that sort of, like, you have that group of people that, like, have that shared business experience that you can draw from. And one of my friends actually it's it's funny actually.
Dennis:He's he he runs a boba shop up in Connecticut. This buddy of mine, we went to college together. And so, like, we're we're starting our businesses, like, actually in two different, like, two different coasts. And we took, like, different approaches to essentially like, more or less, like, the same concept. But it's been nice to be able to talk to him about, like, oh, hey.
Dennis:Like, when you were planning for this equipment, which ones were you considering? Right? And then on the flip side, when he talks to me, it's like, hey. When you're when you're doing your pop up events, how did you handle this, this, and that? It's actually been really nice to be able to talk to someone from, like, a completely different area of my life Mhmm.
Dennis:To be able to talk through those sorts of things.
John:Dang. That's actually pretty sick. Okay. Cool. So I can see how these anime cons are amazing in the sense that it brings people from all walks of life.
John:You can have people that are in that kind of similar walk with you to be able to kind of walk alongside you in a way well, not necessarily walking alongside you in your actual, like, business being created. They've walked that path before. They tread those they've tread that trail. They've, like, kind of trailblazed already, and they're able to kinda, like, give you the wisdom that is needed. And I imagine are you do you end up kind of forming connections, partnerships with these people?
Dennis:Yeah. Mean, like does that yeah. Some of them been great. I think when I think about like, there's there's one guy that I go to whenever I have a question about ecommerce. He's just he has it on lock, and he's he's really good at it.
Dennis:And, like, his products are also products that we would sell. And so, like, though like, that sort of, like, symbiotic relationship. Like, when I think about some of the close relationships that Gamers Heaven overall has made, right, like, our our relationship with Schwa, there's a lot of note sharing about, like, how we can how we can, like, make ourselves better. Like, we come from, like, a place of, like, pretty strong content creation. Not myself, but mostly Andrew.
Dennis:And they have, like, they have product production down to a science. Like, they make everything. And so, like, when we think about, like, our our growth together, right, like, those are, like, the sorts of things where it's, okay, like, we're we're kind of tying the boats together. So this way, we can we can kinda, like, survive these ups and downs of business. There's, like, the overall macro ups and downs, and then there's, like, the micro stuff that, like, is usually just, like, very individual to the business.
Dennis:Right? But the macro ups and downs, like, there are some there are some businesses that will get swept away. But if you can survive the macro stuff and keep your micro stuff to a minimum, then you should be good.
John:So it's kinda like the rising tide lifts all all ships kinda
Dennis:thing. Yeah. So it's like like you saw you saw that post COVID when, like, everyone had their stimulus checks. There were, like, there were riches to be made. And this year, we're we're in a we're in a situation where, like, the there's, like, fair economic uncertainty.
Dennis:Right? Like, there's there's fair amount of, like, political uncertainty as well. And so with that comes, like, a lot of angst that manifest in, like, the way people spend. The ability for businesses to survive these sorts of, like, ups and downs in the macroeconomic environment is really important to get right. And the way you do that is through either partnerships or securing your own boat.
Dennis:The partnerships that we make are the things that help us survive.
John:I see. Yeah. Okay. It's also a nice way just for everyone to we're all in this together. Yeah.
John:No one's really out for bad blood. No one's really competing with each other. It's a lot more of your success is my success, which I think is a really nice shared
Dennis:Yeah.
John:Like, a shared a shared goal to bring bring to the the anime community something that
Dennis:Yeah.
John:You feel like is worth the like, or valuable for the community.
Dennis:Yeah.
John:Yeah. I think that's really cool. I think it's awesome that it's not just it's not just that the the attendees or it's not just that Gamers Heaven is trying to help the attendees feel like they have a place to belong, but you're also working with other small business owners to try to help them, in a sense, feel cohesive and feel seen, you know? Yeah. So I think that's really cool.
John:I really I really admire that vision, man.
Dennis:Yeah. Yeah. Time.
John:Yeah. Yeah. Before we end, I just wanted to see if you had any other any other thoughts, any other final final things that you wanted to share to the audience or to me?
Dennis:No. I think, honestly, this was a ton of fun. I I really appreciate being able to think critically about, like, the the world that we're in. Frankly, we don't take enough time to kinda think through the why of, like, what happens around us. So I I actually do appreciate the the fact that we're able to kinda sit down and think through, like, how we get to certain places, why we do certain things.
Dennis:And I'm excited to see, like, the next episodes.
John:Yeah. Like, what's the drive behind what we do? Right? Yeah. And a lot of it kinda like you're mentioning is it all goes back down to, like, how you feel that the people matter.
John:These people that love anime, you want to be able to change their lives because you feel like they they matter a lot. So and it sounds like that was kind of, like, the thing that kept you going amidst all our hardships of finding a place, amidst like the COVID downturn and all that stuff. So more props to you, man. I am super excited for the Santa Clara Bay Area Gamers Heaven charter, and I'll be first in line whenever that thing opens up.
Dennis:Yeah. Let's do it.
John:Cool. Awesome. Appreciate you, Dennis. Thanks for coming on to the podcast. This was a very fun experience for me to kinda like learn a little bit more about what goes on behind the scenes of small business ownership, of the creation of it, of the maintenance of it, and all the things kind of tied to that.
John:And, yeah, looking forward to seeing seeing more from you. And with that, that's the end the episode, guys. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that. If you like what you're hearing and if you wanna see me improve my craft because this is my first ever episode, would love if you want to subscribe or just wait to hear a little bit more. The idea is that the future episodes will will tackle other various members of the community.
John:So maybe the photographer, like we mentioned before, we had a little bit of that. Maybe just the regular congoer, someone like me that came in that doesn't really know what this whole anime thing's about, but can go from their experience on why they wanted to, you know, take take a step out of their comfort zone and attend these cons. So if you want if you like the content that you hear, if you wanna learn a little bit more about people in anime, people in the online community, feel free to stay tuned and more will come to you shortly. Awesome. Well, again, thank you.
John:Cool.