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HR entrepreneur Mike Coffey, SPHR, SHRM-SCP engages business thought leaders about the strategic, psychological, legal, and practical implications of bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. As an HR consultant, mentor to first-stage businesses through EO’s Accelerator program, and owner of Imperative—Bulletproof Background Screening, Mike is passionate about helping other professionals improve how they recruit, select, and manage their people. Most thirty-minute episodes of Good Morning, HR will be eligible for half a recertification credit for both HRCI and SHRM-certified professionals. Mike is a member of Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) Fort Worth and active with the Texas Association of Business, the Fort Worth Chamber, and Texas SHRM.
It's the same thing with our teams. We bring them on 1 year, 2, 3, 4, 5 years later. Processes have changed. People have changed. Leaders have changed.
Dee Maddox:Our competitors have changed. Even our customers have changed. So what our responsibility is as an organization is to keep them up to date by not just hoping that they find the new information, by not hoping we're all singing from the same songbook or this reading the same plays, by making sure and making a concentrated effort to reintroduce those new tools, those new processes in a cadence of regular frequent communication and education throughout the organization so that no 1 gets misaligned.
Mike Coffey:Good morning, HR. I'm Mike Coffey, president of Imperative. Bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. And this is the podcast where I talk to business leaders about bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. Please follow, rate, and review Good Morning HR wherever you get your podcast.
Mike Coffey:You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, or at goodmorninghr.com. At least in their rhetoric, many companies are shifting away from a shareholder first way of approaching their business to a people first approach. But what does that really mean in practice? Is it just recognition that the people in an organization are the biggest catalyst or obstacles to business success which means shareholders benefit when you have the best people on your team and they're all producing at a high level? Or is there something else to this people first trend?
Mike Coffey:Joining me today is De'Adrianne d Maddox. Dee is the CEO, chief excellence officer at DMX Consulting. Dee has over 20 years of experience assisting businesses in achieving their objectives by putting people first. Dee is a consultant, trainer, sought after public speaker, published author, and most importantly, my friend. Welcome to Good Morning HRD.
Dee Maddox:Good morning. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate that.
Mike Coffey:So you say people first, profits follow. What do you mean by that?
Dee Maddox:I mean that we need to remember just as humans that people are the most critical asset in every organization. It outweighs every other resource that you have. And as far as business goes, the people are the business. So if you're in business and the people are your most important asset, if you put them first, then the profits will definitely follow.
Mike Coffey:And you know and companies have said for decades, you know, our most important asset are our people.
Dee Maddox:Mhmm.
Mike Coffey:But often sometimes our our you know we see people practices that don't really reflect that and it seems like you know maybe rainbows less than you know how we're really gonna do business here. So what does it mean when you say put people put people first? What does that really look like inside the organization?
Dee Maddox:Well it's what you just said the practices don't align with putting the people first. So we always talk about planning and prioritization. So it's like when you're in a relationship, I know that you're married, I'm married. When you prioritize the thing that's most important with you, you spend more time and investment in making that grow. And it's the same thing with our human capital assets, the people.
Dee Maddox:We have to invest more into the people in order to make them more productive, which is going to make the organization more productive, which is going to create more profit. So, if we start by just putting the people first by doing what? Well, let's talk about relationships. It's the thing that plagues us all. We can't get along without them.
Dee Maddox:Why don't we listen? We need to listen to their concerns. They're the ones that's doing the work. And more often than not, they're the ones that's gonna be able to tell you how to improve the work. So the first factor in putting people first is active listening, hearing, hearing them, hearing their concerns, hearing their objections, because oftentimes we put processes and procedures into place that don't work for the business, and it doesn't work for the people.
Dee Maddox:And we go, no. That's the new rule. We're going it we're doing it anyway. Not okay.
Mike Coffey:Well and sometimes and you've been around as long you know, not almost as long as I have. And people you know, that's 1 of the big hits that HR gets very often. Right? HR is the police. We're gonna, you know, we're gonna tell people what they can and can't do all day, and, you know we're gonna make sure that we enforce this policy even where it doesn't often make sense.
Mike Coffey:And so definitely I think that's right. But let's talk about the bigger business case. So when we say people first, there's a risk. And I think sometimes when employees hear that or certainly, you know, some business consultant type pundits out there that write, They suggest that people first means that you're going to put taking care of people ahead of the business objectives. And I always argue that no just taking care of the people is necessary, or is sufficient well, it's necessary and a big part of being sufficient to get the business accomplished, objectives done.
Mike Coffey:And so my my goal is still to do these things, whatever our mission is in as an organization. If we're a for profit business, it's to make a profit, return profit back to our shareholders and all that. If it's a not for profit, it's to serve our community or this specific, you know, population in a certain way. Those are objectives. That's still where we want to go, but it's gonna be a lot harder to get there if we're not treating our people with, you know, respect, if we're not investing in those those kind of things.
Mike Coffey:How do you balance those 2 things?
Dee Maddox:The balance begins with the alignment. Like, once you know that you have the right person, you know, for years' wait, our HR has so many sayings. The right person in the right seat at the right time. We spend an inordinate amount of time recruiting and attracting the talent. But what do you do once you get them?
Dee Maddox:It's like with anything else that you acquire, you have to take care of it. And part of that is making sure it aligns with what you actually intended for it to do. And that alignment begins with understanding. So in addition to hearing what their concerns are, understanding is the second factor. Understanding how the individual needs align with the organizational needs.
Dee Maddox:So I'm not suggesting that we throw it out of the window and say, oh, people people people and ignore the organization. And to your point, if it's community based nonprofit, if it's mission focused, there's still people involved. If it's for profit, then there's still objectives and goals that we need to accomplish. So understanding the needs and how they align and making sure that they do comes with the hearing and that little crazy word we'd love to talk about communication.
Mike Coffey:So where do you see companies really get this wrong? I mean, I can certainly see, you know, small organizations that don't have a lot of people practices and experience in that. You know, I I we work with a lot of entrepreneurial organizations. A lot of my friends are small business owners and entrepreneurs and sometimes because they they've grown those organizations, you know, out of their back pocket. Basically, they don't have the experience in leading and managing people, but larger organizations, medium size, and and larger businesses, where do you see them making mistakes and and how they're, like you say, balancing or, you know, let's say, leveraging their people to get the most out of their people and, so that they can move forward in the organization?
Dee Maddox:The more the organization grows is kinda like a baby gorilla. It's cute when you're spoon feeding it, and the bigger it gets, the hungrier it gets. Well, the same thing with organizations. You have more people to take care of. And so you start focusing on the processes to get that done in the most efficient way, but the more effective way would be to include them as you grow in those processes.
Dee Maddox:So the larger organizations go into investing software and systems and protocol and procedures, and every 1 of those p's, the people, are going further and further down. So the bigger the system gets, the less the focus goes on the people and that's when things start getting lost. I recently read an article on how Starbucks has gone wrong, you know, the little cute experience that they used to have, the smell of fresh roasted coffee has been replaced with processes that make the operations more efficient. Now they have prepackaged coffee. It has no scent, so you walk in, you're not smelling fresh coffee grounds.
Dee Maddox:But is it more effective in terms of delivery and logistics and operations and packaging? Yes. But is it the thing that originally drew people to that fresh smell like your kitchen coffee, that brew? You're getting away from the people the more you enlist and enhance the processes that are designed for efficiency for the operations, which may not align with what makes the people, I e the customers, happy.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. I think that Starbucks is a really good example. I just listened, to, I think, a 2:2 and a half hour interview with Howard Schultz who founded Starbucks. He exited the company, came back as their CEO, left again, and they brought it in. And every time another set of leadership came in, they tried to throw all these efficiencies in that killed a big part of the culture both from the employee side but also from the the customer side.
Mike Coffey:You know, that idea that you walk into a Starbucks and you've got a unique kind of experience and now you order on he really hates the app. You order on your app and you order your coffee and you walk in pick it up and never say hello to anybody and you don't have that sense of community that this is my local Starbucks, this is my local thing, this is just a place I'm going to get coffee. And you know he basically says we've kind of screwed ourselves because we've rolled this app out. We can't take it away from our customers now. But the way we've rolled it out and the way we've implemented it kills a lot of that that connection.
Mike Coffey:And and they're really, you know, they're struggling, even, you know, even out here, you know, post COVID because their leadership is focused a little bit differently, at least according to Schultz, on things that, you know, really didn't build that customer culture. And so and I know in organizations we get the same thing. You know, everybody's talking about AI. Right? It's you know, I'm changed to the day this will this episode drops July 11th.
Mike Coffey:I'm doing a podcast or a webinar in the afternoon about AI and HR and everybody and I talked to a lot of HR folks who say, hey. My VP just told me we have to implement AI someplace. They wanna see AI, you know, just for the sake of it. And my answer is always, well, let's go look at what the problem we what problems do we need to solve? And maybe there's an AI solution for that.
Mike Coffey:Maybe it's a people solution. Maybe it's something else. But I think we have this tendency to think, okay, we can just throw processes. We can put through a technology at a problem. And especially, I think in HR, there's you don't get the connection.
Mike Coffey:You don't get the empathy. You don't get the you don't build that culture around people.
Dee Maddox:Right. I agree. And when you talk about putting AI in place and incorporating technology within the face of people, it's not something we haven't done before. We have. So, I'm a lady of a certain age.
Dee Maddox:My career goes back to the nineties. I was on AY2K HRIS implementation team, and we start incorporating all new technology innovation as a tool. So AI is not gonna be any different. So we don't need to run screaming. The sky is falling.
Dee Maddox:What's gonna happen to the humans? We are the humans, and we're going to be here. And AI is going to simply become another tool that we use prayerfully, wisely, and responsibly to improve the organization. It's not going to be some scary monster that we're going to have to manage or control or hide from. We should do what we do, educate ourselves, and then learn how to execute it, and then document how that impacts our business.
Dee Maddox:And that's going to be how we're going to incorporate the people with the technology and keep organizations rolling along. We don't have to be afraid of AI.
Mike Coffey:So if we get this wrong, if we whether it's, you know, technology or just process, and you know striving to have you know the you know what we think is the most efficient process. If we get that wrong and we push that people, you know, that p of people down below too far down that list, what's the consequence?
Dee Maddox:The consequence is we're gonna be fighting an ongoing talent management battle. When you don't take care of the people, it's a relationship. And what do people do when they're in an unhappy relationship? They leave or worse, they stay. And then what they do is they make all of the new people that you're able to attract miserable because of the experience that they've had.
Dee Maddox:They're more than too happy to share that. So you're going to damage your talent management situation. You're not going to be able to attract the talent you need to stay competitive, and you're going to impact the culture by keeping those unhappy folks around who wanna tell everyone what was done to them.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. And and and they they always find a way to do that. It's, you know, it's, I I call them vampires. They're office vampires. They're sucking the light out of your organization, all day long just a little drip at a time and they may be even able to do the job well.
Mike Coffey:Uh-huh. That's the thing is sometimes they're maybe the best person at doing that job in that work group but they're killing everybody else's ability to you know to do it or their motivation to do it. So if we get that wrong then you've got the wrong people in there. They're, they're helping disincentivize other employees making the organization less efficient. Or if people don't you know, on a flip side even if they if they do leave, you're losing really good performers who you know eagles don't fly with turkeys right and so if somebody doesn't feel like they're being respected or you know being heard or you know we've all heard it from our friends who work in corporate America about just the dumb things that they're doing for whatever reasons, as far as processes go that that you know are negative for the customers or whatever People don't want to be they don't want to be part of that.
Mike Coffey:Right? And and so they leave and you lose that skill set, you lose that investment in those employees. And then in what's still a pretty tight labor market, you're trying to replace them, find somebody with commensurate skills so you can get up to speed at a pretty quick pace, and that's expensive.
Dee Maddox:It is. And 1 of the things that I think, I don't know how familiar people are with the new term that we're saying, we're retooling or rebooting. So you bring these hypos, they're there, and they have you have that little I love the term you used office vampire. I'm so stealing that. So you have the office vampire, but, you know, they're the smart ones who can fortify themselves.
Dee Maddox:They took the job because they really do wanna be there. They really are good at what they do. You can help them ward off that by constantly pouring into them and rebooting and retooling and giving them an opportunity and a chance to create their own experience. Because if you don't create the culture, people will bring it with them, and you don't want all these different cultures, the office vampire and the newbie. You want to consistently feed into your high performing individuals, and hopefully, you wanna do some sort of secession or you don't wanna just have, like, 1 VIP.
Dee Maddox:You don't wanna have 1 most valuable player. You wanna allow those most valuable players to get into the game and to develop others as a form of not putting it all on the leaders or the managers, but allowing the peers? Because we're communal people? And other than the vampires, how do you get to ward off that group of people who rally together and say, you know what? We're not gonna be we're not gonna fall prey to that.
Dee Maddox:We're gonna stay positive. We're gonna keep communication open. We're gonna have 1 on ones. We're gonna have team meetings. We're gonna talk about all things good and bad, and we're gonna celebrate things large and small.
Dee Maddox:You're just doing all of these things that really feed the people. And that's the nurturing growth part. So it's another factor and keeping the humans first nurturing that growth and that development within those people, which help ward off the vampires, which helps keep the high performing high potential, most valuable players, and then you're starting to groom other valuable players. So you don't just have a bench strength of 1, these organizations are then to allow the good things to multiply and spread like wildfire and ward off those office vampires.
Mike Coffey:And let's take a quick break. Good morning HR is brought to you by Imperative. Bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. If you're an HRCI or SHRM certified professional, this episode of Good Morning HR has been preapproved for 1 half hour of recertification credit. To obtain the recertification information visit goodmorninghr.com and click on research credits, then select episode 156 and enter the keyword Maddox.
Mike Coffey:That's MADD0X. This episode will drop early on Thursday morning, July 11th. So if you're listening to this on your drive to work, there's still time to register for this afternoon's webinar, the ethical and practical considerations on the use of AI in human resources. We'll talk about the history of artificial intelligence, the ways we use it every day without realizing it, and how generative AI can bring value and risk to the organization. I'll even introduce you to the deep fake Mike Coffey.
Mike Coffey:We'll also consider ethical issues employers face as they implement AI. This free webinar is preapproved for an hour of recertification credit from both HRCI and SHRM, and you can register for the live webinar or starting tomorrow, July 12th, watch the recording also for credit at imperativeinfo.com/webinars. And now back to my conversation with Dee Maddox. So you used 2 terms there, reboarding and retooling. Let's tackle reboarding.
Mike Coffey:What do you mean by that?
Dee Maddox:So onboarding is what we talk about. What do you do when you get them? Everything else that we have, there's some type of maintenance or upgrade or addition or amendment or add on that you do to keep it functioning properly. It's the same thing with our teams. We bring them on 1 year, 2, 3, 4, 5 years later, processes have changed, people have changed, leaders have changed, our competitors have changed, even our customers have changed.
Dee Maddox:So what our responsibility is as an organization is to keep them up to date by not just hoping that they find the new information by not hoping we're all singing from the same songbook or this reading the same plays by making sure and making a concentrated effort to reintroduce those new tools, those new processes in a cadence of regular frequent communication and education throughout the organization so that no 1 gets misaligned with, oh, well, you know what? We used to. Oh, yeah. We stopped doing that years ago. Well, how did you know?
Dee Maddox:Oh, my manager told me, you don't leave it to chance. You take a concentrated approach to making sure that everyone gets updated just like Apple. When they find out there's a bug, what do you get? You get a notification. Hey.
Dee Maddox:We discovered there's a problem. And what we'd like to do is give you this in order to fix it. We should do the same thing in the organizations with our people. We have to manage and nurture their growth, educate them as the organization changes, as our competition changes, as the customer changes, make sure and not in a happenstance way, very intentional, scheduled, required training and retooling to make sure that they stay abreast of how the organization is changing. And
Mike Coffey:I think a lot of that I think frontline managers are get so busy because often they've got operational responsibilities. They've got to do some work too. They're not you know, it would be amazing if we could have managers who really spent 60% of their time really managing people, but in many organizations that's just not the case. And so they kind of assume because I know it my my team is gonna know this through osmosis or something you know they're just going to pick it up because it's in the air. I've got a friend who owns a pretty large firm and he talks often he gets real frustrated.
Mike Coffey:Why how can they work here and not know this? And I'm like well, what did you ever do to train them or tell them that this is the way? Well we've done it this way for years. Well that person if they're not physically doing that job every day they may not know that and you assume that you know I think the broader your scope is as a leader in the organization, the more you assume if you're not paying attention that the people below you pick that up. And I think that's a that's a real you know I think it's a structural issue in the organization because you've got to make sure that all your frontline managers have the right information.
Mike Coffey:But then you need processes where they can share that information down to their team. And like you say, that may be, you know, regular training, I think 1 to ones. You know exactly there's a there's kind of a push especially in tech companies lately. I've been reading articles against you know leaders having 1 to ones with team team members because it's not efficient they need to be working and blah blah blah and I think you know we can waste a lot of time and bad 1 to ones you know that aren't well scared you know well planned and are just you know we're just sitting through 30 minutes of of BS conversation when they could be listening to my podcast but or it could be you know but I think if you have a plan and these are the things we're going to accomplish in every 1 to 1 that becomes a lot more valuable time and people feel caught up with what's going on in the organization. Exactly.
Mike Coffey:So that's re boarding, and I think that's really that's really an interesting way to put it. Now what about retooling?
Dee Maddox:Retooling is, a spin off of the rebooting because once you recognize the processes and the procedures have changed, that our competitors have changed, and that our customers' needs, like, to your point about taking away the app, the convenience of being able to preorder and save those minutes, that's important to the customer who's in in a hurry who's not interested in the experience. But the retooling means that we're giving them the equipment that they need to be successful. So if we didn't have a particular item in stock for everyone to use, there may have been 1 or 2, and now we realize that everyone needs 1. You remember before PCs were everywhere, desktop, you know, they you may have had 1 computer where people take turns. Well, now we know that that's the equipment that everyone needs.
Dee Maddox:And the same thing, once you have the new processes and procedures, whether it's a new manual, whether it's a new, license, whether it's a new training, whatever they need to be successful that's going to keep them with the changes in the operations, you have to make sure they've had it. I've done some manufacturing work, whether it's a belt to protect their back, whether it's a special type of shoe, whether it's a backpack versus a tote, if you're carrying supplies and materials. Whatever the new process is, making sure that everyone has access to the tools and the equipment in order to do the job. Oh, well, no. I brought my own.
Dee Maddox:No. That's not okay. Even headphones. I was in an environment where noise and people were like, well, oh, I'm getting distracted by the noise. It became commonplace to distribute the headphones to drown out the noise versus people bringing in their own of different types and different strengths and different sizes, safety wise, but just providing them what they needed to do that.
Dee Maddox:So the retooling is in keeping with the reboarding. Once you realize something else is required, then you make sure that everyone has access or can approach or be issued the necessary equipment for success, whatever that looks like.
Mike Coffey:So let's back up. Before we create these new processes or we're implementing this new technology, if we're putting people first, what does that look at like as we evaluate the changes we wanna make?
Dee Maddox:The people are going to be your test case. So if you're putting new processes into place to replace the old ones and they're the ones responsible for execution, they're gonna be your most reliable detailed data on how it's performing. So if you've added this process, this step, this tactic, and they say, oh, you know what? We're making more errors because of that. We're getting things wrong, or we're having customers leave because they don't like it, or we're having 1 time business instead of repeat business.
Dee Maddox:The front line is going to be the ones that are going to be able to tell you what that looks like in execution so that they're the ones responsible for it that's going to allow you to document that performance so that you can make the necessary adjust adjustments. So adapting to the change, you're gonna need the people to tell you how that plays. So that's where putting them first. And because they're on the front line, because they're the ones interacting with each other as an internal team. And oftentimes, and outwardly facing, they're the ones that have the immediate access to your external customers.
Mike Coffey:And you know, I think that works if you've got an organization with a high level of trust, a high level accountability downward so that management is willing to be held accountable by employees and so employees trust that They can speak their mind. They can say I've got a concern about this or this is negatively impacting our outputs this way or whatever and knowing that management will actually hear them not just listen but actually hear what they're saying and and take it into account as they evaluate or even better yet before they implement something new and before they run out and buy. I was once part of a in an organization that bought a new HRS system, spent you know several $1, 000, 000 on this new HRS system and then with very little input from HR and once they implemented it they realized oh this is a 7 day a week 24 hour a day environment and this technology doesn't really support that. And you know almost anybody in frontline HR could have told you just by going through the software pretty quickly that this isn't really designed for us. This isn't gonna work.
Mike Coffey:And so I think you've got to have that really high level of trust because we've seen plenty of organizations, right, where everybody knows what the problem is, but but nobody's willing to speak up and and and say it because they don't wanna put their head on the chopping block?
Dee Maddox:Yeah. We have. And it's crazy that you would mention that. So, 1 of my claims to fame, I was the human capital team lead for Space Shuttle retirement. And before the 2 loss of life accidents in Challenger in Columbia, those engineering teams were not in a psychological safe space where they could communicate to the project managers, we see a problem.
Dee Maddox:And so now, of course, across all environments where there's safety involved, you hear people saying see something, say something. Everyone who's a part of the process is being equipped and empowered to use their voice to ring the bell when there's a problem, to sound the alarm. But that's not always the case. That's because we know the number 1 dysfunction of all high performing teams is the absence of trust. I don't trust you.
Dee Maddox:If I tell you that you're wrong, the people versus the organization, then it might impact my bonus. It might impact my assignment. It might impact, my schedule. Whatever the fear is in that organization can prevent the productivity. And again, that goes to the people.
Dee Maddox:So when you're adapting to the change, and you're nurturing the growth of the people, and you're building that trust, that trust in that environment can become a motivating factor to be a part of something where you know that your opinion is valued, and you're motivated to make sure that the product or the process or the group that you're part of is going to be, performing at its highest level because you understand your contribution and you recognize that it's valued by the higher ups.
Mike Coffey:Well, you mentioned, you know the NASA stuff, but, if you look at like what Boeing's gone through, the stuff I've read about Boeing and some of their their changes in focus over the last several years and how, you know, engineers were scared to speak up and say things when, you know, when they saw obvious problems with the technology. And so that's, you know, that's people's lives. It's just like the the shuttle. Right? Those are the same things and it's less maybe impactful and you know a small manufacturing facility or an accounting firm or whatever but it's it could be, you know, on scale just as impactful to the organization if if employees see something that's not right, but they're not willing to say something.
Dee Maddox:Yeah. It's the same thing with, like, data breaches or
Mike Coffey:Oh, sure.
Dee Maddox:Or Madison or any of the things that involve a person on the front end. If you will oh, you know what we're going to do? We're gonna take copies of, this personally identifiable information, mister background check. Mhmm. We're gonna take copies of these, but how are we destroying them?
Dee Maddox:How are we protecting our customers who trust us with this information? So it doesn't have to be, to your point, space transportation or or airplanes, any environment where you have a process in place where your frontline individuals are responsible for executing it. You want to make sure that if there's an opportunity to improve that process, if there's an opportunity to discontinue. So we talk about start, stop, and continue. Maybe we shouldn't do this anymore.
Dee Maddox:A lot of new processes and procedures came out of the global pandemic. Many operations are struggling now with which ones they should keep because they worked so successfully for the 2 year span. Right? But who knows that the best? So things that we had to do face to face, we started doing them virtually.
Dee Maddox:We started doing them over the phone, but you were losing that personal contact, that relationship because of an a different method of delivery. So in that case, whether it's small manufacturing like with Boeing, the focus on processes efficiency, and, you know, in project management, of course, there had to be some critical timeline or we often Freakonomics incentivize the wrong thing. Mhmm. Maybe there was a reward for finishing early. And if you're doing widgets in production, which I've been a part of in mail processing, how fast can you get it out?
Dee Maddox:And the faster you get it out or the faster you complete, then that's going to be the reward versus quality versus making sure the efficiencies are there that are going to provide the safety and the outcomes. Because when you focus on the wrong thing, you get the wrong outcome, and you reward the wrong thing, you get the wrong result. So
Mike Coffey:Yeah. It's economics 101, incentives matter. Right?
Dee Maddox:Yes. Very much.
Mike Coffey:Well, thank you for joining me. That's all the time we have, but I really appreciate you joining me, Dee.
Dee Maddox:So so soon is Yeah.
Mike Coffey:So quick. We'll have to do another 1.
Dee Maddox:We were just getting good.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. Well, I promise we'll get you back. And in the meantime, hopefully, you and I get together for, coffee or an adult beverage soon.
Dee Maddox:Yes.
Mike Coffey:And thank you all for listening. You can comment on this episode or search our previous episodes at goodmorninghr.com or on Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube. And don't forget to follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Rob Upchurch is our technical producer, and you can reach him at robmakespods.com. And thank you to Imperative's marketing coordinator, Mary Anne Hernandez, who keeps the trains running on time.
Mike Coffey:And I'm Mike Coffey. As always, don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of service to you personally or professionally. I'll see you next week. And until then, be well, do good, and keep your chin up.