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Preventing that midlife crisis, one conversation at a time.
Erin Wawok (00:00.846)
Hey friends, thanks for showing up today. We're so glad you're here. I'm Kelly. I'm Erin. And this is The Till. My friendship with Kelly reaches as far back as our earliest memories as toddlers. We both grew up in Mexico, our parents were missionaries, and we formed a deep friendship as roommates in boarding school. Our friendship was deep, but of course we followed different paths into adulthood. We moved to different states, we built our families, and...
Erin Wawok (00:29.806)
we eventually lost touch. Here we are 15 years later, reconnecting over the complexities of finding our way in a life that has no roadmap. And that has brought us to the till. We're convinced that the most beautiful life happens when we don't follow a script. We're thrilled to bring you into the conversations we're having on wholeness, intentionality, and presence. There's still so much life to be lived, so let's get to work.
Erin Wawok (01:00.142)
This week we have a new topic to cover. I think it might surprise a lot of people, but I also think that a lot of people are going to perhaps feel not so alone. What I'm curious about is to hear a little bit about what is fueling your life at this point. So I think specifically what I...
Erin Wawok (01:27.662)
I'm curious to know and understand is kind of like what's driving the direction that you're going in life and what is giving you the inspiration or the meaning, I guess, maybe to what you're doing as well. Yeah. I mean, great, deep question. I think this is a hard one to answer just because of where I feel like I find myself right now. And I only say that because I think,
Erin Wawok (01:57.998)
What I want my answer to be is not what my answer to be is. I think I've laid aside a lot of what I've been running after in life to heal a lot. Maybe what I'm running after right now is a little bit more of a sense of wholeness. I've been in therapy for two years. I've been in marriage counseling for almost two years.
Erin Wawok (02:27.342)
Erin Wawok (02:29.966)
And yeah, yeah. And to do that and live my normal life with three kids and my husband works and all of that, to balance all of that, that's about what my capacity has been. I'm curious, if you were to answer it the way that you want to answer, or maybe even the way that you think people would expect you to answer, what are the things that you would say instead of what you feel like reality is right now? Yeah.
Erin Wawok (02:59.79)
I mean, writing for sure. I've been writing for years. I have the poetry book I put out last year and then I have a manuscript I've been working on for years that I've wanted to pursue publishing with and I felt like I've been on the cusp of that and then just had to lay it aside. I have more writing projects. Creativity in general, I'm a pretty creative person.
Erin Wawok (03:29.678)
And then honestly, just being really sensitive and in tune to what God has me, which is usually people running after. My husband actually told me today, he just was like, you don't have a resume that anybody can see, but he's like, you run after people's hearts and just because people can't see that doesn't mean...
Erin Wawok (03:59.694)
it's not valuable and it's not a valuable thing to run after in life. my gosh, that's beautiful. So I would say, thanks. It was kind of him to put that in words and I felt really seen even though in this moment and for the last couple of years, I've felt like the person I'm running after is myself. I've felt like I'm trying to, gosh, even run after my own heart and find that again. So yeah.
Erin Wawok (04:28.782)
What do feel like were the things or maybe just thing that really pushed you into seeking wholeness or seeking healing instead of pursuing your creative passions? Yeah, good question. I think it was little things. I had never had the language for being triggered or trauma or
Erin Wawok (04:54.158)
being dysregulated and found myself at a creative retreat once where I was highly triggered to the point where I almost couldn't talk. And it just stopped me in my tracks and I was like, what is that? What is that that's coming into my life that is making me not function in a place I really want to function? And I didn't know, I didn't know. And then we...
Erin Wawok (05:22.606)
maybe two years later got foster children and through their care we had to take trauma training and it was I think it was 12 hours of intensive you know trauma training and I saw myself in it and I just was like my gosh that's me my gosh that's me and still didn't fully recognize it right like couldn't place where couldn't
Erin Wawok (05:47.95)
couldn't figure it out. But after they left, I just was like, okay, it's been a couple years, I'm getting these hints that I need to probably step into counseling. And so I did the following year, and then just I think realized the work of what that is and to step into that place of healing. It just takes so much of your capacity that things had to fall by the wayside.
Erin Wawok (06:16.11)
And especially when it comes to creativity, just my capacity to pour out isn't there. Even if I wanted to write, I haven't been able to, hardly at all. So yeah, I don't know if that Where did your book writing fall? Yeah, no, it totally does. Where did your book writing fall in there? Had you mostly finished your book by that time when you were deciding to...
Erin Wawok (06:44.142)
I mean, it didn't sound like you really like had a necessarily a super conscious decision. It sounds like you decided to do counseling and to pursue healing. And then you just realized like, okay, then these things I'm going to have to put on a different shelf. Yeah, yeah, for real. I for a while, I always had hopes like, I can come back to it. I can, you know, when this when the summer's over, when fall gets settled. And then I just realized.
Erin Wawok (07:12.43)
I just need to not put that expectation on myself. My book, right before I started counseling, I had completely rewritten it. I think it was my fifth draft and it was a pretty fresh, completely rewritten version. And then I paid an editor to edit it for me. And then basically never, I think I've edited.
Erin Wawok (07:40.174)
maybe the first two chapters from her feedback and just never got back to it. So it's completed. It just hasn't been, I haven't worked through the edits on that yet. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be curious because I know in my own experience, I actually feel like as I've wanted to become more of a creative spirit,
Erin Wawok (08:07.79)
and a little bit more free in how I function. And even just in movement, just feeling the freedom to dance when other people are around or to, I don't know, just inhabit my body a little differently than I feel like I have been able to previously. In all of those things, feeling like, okay, I just wanna become,
Erin Wawok (08:35.693)
Like I want to become a little bit more in love with myself and free within myself for the sake of my kids, because I recognize that that's something that's really important. And every time I try to do that, I realize like, I'm hitting like these roadblocks or I can't go any further. And those I feel like are the things that are really pushing me to look a little bit deeper and to keep working on myself.
Erin Wawok (09:02.35)
And so I forget exactly where I was going with that. Maybe I'll go, maybe I'll like come back to that thought, but I think just the idea that healing isn't linear and it also isn't something that a lot of women probably don't think that they can prioritize the way that I have learned I need to. And yet it is a super valuable tool in
Erin Wawok (09:32.238)
becoming a better version of yourself, you know, for your family and for yourself, of course, too. But, you know, just in the pursuit of being a good mom, being a good spouse and having a fulfilling life, too, you know, sometimes healing needs to take a front seat for a while. And the reality is that when we're pursuing
Erin Wawok (10:00.59)
understanding ourselves more deeply and understanding our, the trauma that we've experienced and just like, you know, where we came from and what makes us who we are, that is extremely emotionally taxing. And I think that it's, it could be easy to think that it doesn't matter or not that it doesn't matter, but like, because the world cannot see those things.
Erin Wawok (10:29.134)
that we need to somehow keep up appearances by still showing up at all the things, by still keeping our kids involved in all the things that they were, by still, you know, whatever the thing is. And kind of, I think I'm realizing this, partially know it, but don't know how to verbalize it, and partially I'm still realizing it, that part of me stepping away from my full -time job,
Erin Wawok (10:56.206)
is literally because I couldn't sustain my life with trying to heal some of the things that I feel like I want to, and I feel like I deserve to heal from, and keep up with a full -time job. And like, you know, there's just, the energy just is not there. And then what ends up happening is, you know, my family gets the brunt of that, unfortunately. So obviously like,
Erin Wawok (11:23.214)
I'm in a very privileged position to be able to even consider that there are many women that cannot consider not having a job or something. But at the same time, I hope that what you're hearing out of all of this is that looking for or seeking that healing and prioritizing your inner healing above maybe some outward achievements for a while can be really good and is not.
Erin Wawok (11:51.79)
It's really not all that weird and it's okay if people don't understand it too. you know, for you to step back from other things sometimes feels a little bit strange, but that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I I appreciate, I appreciate you saying that because we, you're right. So many times we, we just don't give ourselves the permission to do that. or yeah, like you said, are, are afraid of what it will look like. And you know, I've learned to like, I don't owe people an explanation.
Erin Wawok (12:20.366)
You know, like I don't have to defend myself in some instances. And then even going back to, you know, the conversation we had last week on relationships, I very recently have reached out to people who reached out to me, you know, and then I was the one not responding and not being reciprocal. And I just sent a text and just said, hey, I loved the last time we had dinner with your family. I'm sorry I didn't respond. You know, we've just...
Erin Wawok (12:47.95)
been really doing a lot of inner work and explained a little bit and just said, we'd love to reconnect with your family when we're in a place where we have more capacity. And I don't know, I think there's value in both. I think there's value in just being honest with some people about where you're at and why things aren't playing out in an obvious way or.
Erin Wawok (13:13.23)
Maybe just how people would expect them to or what society deems as acceptable somehow. Right. Why are you giving me the cold shoulder? Right. Right. Yeah. then there are times where I just am like, I don't own explanation. I am doing what I have capacity to do right now. Right. Right. Yeah. And it's never, I mean, you 100 % have the freedom to...
Erin Wawok (13:42.19)
not give people an explanation 100 % agree with that. But when you do feel like it's like you should say something, you know, like if it's a relationship you're trying to maintain or whatnot. Another thing that I always remember is I never wish someone hadn't told me that, you know, something more personal about what was going on with them for me to better understand where they were at, because that only makes me feel not so
Erin Wawok (14:12.238)
alone in whatever it is, even if my thing is different, you know, just to know that like, Hey, other people are going through hard stuff too. And, also just that there is like, an intimacy, I guess that, or maybe, maybe that's like too serious of a word, but there's something about like, you know, just like knitting relationships together. that happens when you share details like that, you know, and it doesn't have to be a lot, but it can feel like so much to the recipient.
Erin Wawok (14:41.39)
and also make them feel the freedom to share that with you in the future if they need to. For sure, for sure. It's just kind of laying down that layer we kind of sometimes hold up for each other and just being like, hey, I'm a human. This is my humanity that I'm showing you right now. How about for you? I think it's interesting that you and I are almost swapping our roles in life right now. I would like...
Erin Wawok (15:10.702)
Right now, my life is on hold, but I'm hoping to step into more of a career role for myself after being a stay -at -home mom. And you're in almost the opposite, you are in the opposite transition of transitioning from working to being home with your kids. So what's behind that and what is behind, yeah, like what's driving you to make the choices and the changes that you're making and...
Erin Wawok (15:40.11)
What are you hoping will be at the end of it, maybe? Even in the short term. I know there's not an ending, but yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So the short -term goal, I guess this feels like a very complicated thing to answer for me, partially because I want to be respectful of my spouse and just
Erin Wawok (16:09.422)
Running a business together is a lot of work and, you know, it was this decision for me to step away from, from daily things was years in the making, quite literally. I truly felt like I just kind of came to a breaking point where I just felt like I literally cannot do this one more day. So short -term goal was to get out of that cycle, really just feeling like I just.
Erin Wawok (16:38.574)
I really just needed something different. Long -term, I think the goal is maybe the vision is a little bit bigger than that. I kind of feel like part of my, I mean, we could get into all sorts of like weird, I don't know, like woo -woo energy stuff, but I do Let's just go there. Well, I guess I
Erin Wawok (17:05.069)
Mostly it feels a little bit hard to put into words and it, and some of it is just because like Mike, I don't have a lot of words for the context that I feel like I am in now because I grew up in a very, you know, like structured religious household. I don't feel like I have the words to explain how I'm feeling. but I'm pretty convinced that I'm right. And, and what I feel is that there is something about my.
Erin Wawok (17:34.062)
position in our family and the way that my wiring is kind of connected or interwoven with the wiring of my kids and also with my spouse and the relationships that we have that when I am as off as I am, that there is no way that our family can be functional. I believe that with like the deepest sincerity. And so I...
Erin Wawok (18:02.222)
noticed definite shift. Even just a couple of weeks after quitting my job, where things just felt less frantic and it wasn't just my inner self feeling less frantic, I could also see that like, my kids were feeling a little bit more relaxed. There were like just a few things I'm trying to remember specifics like
Erin Wawok (18:24.878)
One of the kids wasn't sleeping super well for a long time, like six months. And then suddenly she started sleeping great and started going to bed very easily. you know, it doesn't mean like, it doesn't mean everything's perfect. This isn't like a miracle solution to everything for sure, but it definitely, I could definitely tell that it was a shift in the right direction, which felt very validating. and also, I,
Erin Wawok (18:53.902)
want, I want to get up in the morning. And I think that that's huge for my family, not feeling like I'm like avoiding getting the day started or I don't know, there's, there's just so much to that. you know, I think I, yeah. Anyway, so the long longer term goal is to just get our family, get our family in a more functional spot.
Erin Wawok (19:20.206)
to where we feel like we have a rhythm and a flow that I know is supposed to be there. I have experienced it previously and I know that we can get there, but I know that it's going to require my work. And it's not just my work in our family, it's like my inner work that needs to happen in order to put that into motion and to get us to a good spot as a family. I don't take that...
Erin Wawok (19:50.126)
responsibility as a burden. I am like very excited about it. I feel like that's a part of my purpose, which I also hate saying because like, I think that there's a lot more to me than being a wife and a mom, but I, but I think it probably just comes back to that whole like living in community. Like this is my closest community, you know, and, and also, you know, just like,
Erin Wawok (20:19.47)
providing a peaceful, stable home allows my kids to go out and flourish, allows my spouse to go out and flourish and myself too. So really, really just focusing on that stuff. And I love that. Thanks. It's interesting because it's something I think you're spot on.
Erin Wawok (20:47.758)
and what you're saying and something I have been meditating on, I guess, is that I really feel like women are atmosphere setters. We set the atmosphere, not only of our homes, but of so many places. I've been thinking about that a lot lately. My perspective is because I'm home, I am setting the atmosphere of my home.
Erin Wawok (21:17.55)
And I do agree with you. I think it's an energy thing. It's a literal feeling of what we're setting us for our families, but I think it plays out into the world in a deeper way. And I think I'm trying to dig deeper into that thought of what does that mean and how can we lean into that power? Anyways, I loved that you brought that up because I think you're spot on on that.
Erin Wawok (21:46.946)
So can I ask, you mentioned you're doing your own work so that you can set that tone for your family and create a place where they can all thrive. What does that work look like for you right now? Yeah. So I have done many different types of talk therapy. I've done...
Erin Wawok (22:15.15)
some EMDR, which is, I don't know, something to do with it's like a tapping thing. I forget exactly what it stands for. Look it up. EMDR. it's powerful. And yes. I have done, lots of reading on different topics and I have also done lots of yoga and lots of meditation and gone to like,
Erin Wawok (22:44.942)
different sorts of like energy work, workshops and stuff. I've done a lot of that kind of stuff since before my daughter was born. So that my first daughter, so that would have been like nine years ago. So that's kind of when I recognize that like, whoa, adulthood is not what I expected.
Erin Wawok (23:09.646)
Also, I think like the lights just came on for me all of a sudden. We've talked about that previously where it kind of seemed like in our teen years, you were a lot more aware of what was happening in life around you, where I was completely dissociated. Like I was not functioning at that level. I also had no idea that that's what was happening for me. But then...
Erin Wawok (23:36.526)
When things shifted so much in my life after I got married and finished college, that was kind when everything got very discombobulated. And then I was searching for purpose, searching for purpose. And I tried the church thing many different times and kept getting burned. And then we ended up moving. So we lived in the city, we lived in Chicago, and I wanted to live there forever. And...
Erin Wawok (24:03.982)
just kind of stop making sense for some reason. And I'm all about, I don't mind change. I feel like change is something I kind of thrive in. I'm always looking for change, like almost to an unhealthy level. Anyway, so was like, sure, let's move states. So we moved to Indiana, to where we are now. And shortly after is when I got pregnant with our first daughter. And that was really when I kind of was like, okay, I better figure myself out because if I'm going to be a mom,
Erin Wawok (24:32.878)
then I want to be able to offer my best self to her. And I know that there's no, I am so messed up. Like I'm so all over the place. I do not understand myself. I don't know what's going on. And so, anyway, so that's like a little bit of background as far as like when I kind of started pursuing healing. but that, you know, it's kind of like layers and you know, things go in phases. So I did that for a while.
Erin Wawok (25:01.422)
Then of course, like motherhood just kind of took over. we started our business then I would, once things kind of got back into flow, then I would go back to therapy. So I've like done different types of things over time as different things have surfaced, you know, as life has gone on and different things have come up. And then probably like last fall, I think I really kind of felt like, actually I remember what it was. I had done an EMDR session at the end of the session.
Erin Wawok (25:31.438)
My therapist says, she told me afterwards that she didn't mean for it to come across this way, but she said to me almost verbatim, there's nothing else I can do for you. You need to, you need to just like go get to know that little girl inside of yourself. You need to go and figure out who you are, figure out, you know, like get, get to know that person and fall in love with her. And.
Erin Wawok (26:01.07)
then I think you can kind of start to uncover some deeper stuff, but you're stuck, you know? And so, it was, did feel like a gift or did it feel like harsh? It felt like a gift. Yeah, it really did because I was kind of floundering. I was like, I don't feel healed. I don't feel like I understand much better where I,
Erin Wawok (26:31.15)
like how I should be feeling or like what, what should be happening for me. I just felt like something is still not right. but I really appreciated that she was just kind of like, you just gotta like, just dig in and just like figure out how to love yourself, which is so odd to me because I would consider myself like a fairly confident.
Erin Wawok (27:01.102)
I don't like it's not like I don't have insecurities, but I don't have the deep insecurities that I found a lot of my peers do. yeah. And so, you know, I carry myself with the confidence that I don't see a lot of other people carrying themselves, but it doesn't mean that I don't. A lot of that is like, it's a protector, you know? Anyway, so when she told me that, yeah, go ahead.
Erin Wawok (27:28.846)
Can I tell you what it reminds me of? Yes. Our first year that we lived in boarding school together when we were roommates, I was in middle school. I think maybe you were a freshman. You came in with magnets and wall hangings and a t -shirt that all said, I love me. And you wore it all the time. It was your proud display. And I think...
Erin Wawok (27:58.19)
there were people in authority who strongly tried to figure out how to take that away from you, which is sad. But it always made an impression because I loved your boldness to just declare it. It sticks in my mind if that's who you are. I love me and you're like, well, it's true. So why am I hiding it? Anyways, that's a core memory for me.
Erin Wawok (28:25.486)
I, and the truth is like, I'm not even, I'm not even embarrassed about that. I, I'm like really thankful that I have that in me. And, I feel absolutely like, don't be embarrassed spoiled that, you know, that I, that I can, that I have been able to like, I don't know, preserve that sort of that part of myself, you know? yeah.
Erin Wawok (28:53.678)
That is not to say I don't have insecurities. I absolutely do. Especially as I came into motherhood, it was like, my God, I don't know like what I'm doing, you know, and then your body changes and then like getting older and you know, it's not like I don't have insecurities, but it's different when they're a little bit more surface, you know, as opposed to feeling like fundamentally, I don't know. It's, it's, it's strange because I also,
Erin Wawok (29:22.83)
I also had that sense that like I am also like will never be good enough. So who knows? Anyway, somehow at all. That's the thing is like that. So.
Erin Wawok (29:34.318)
I feel like, so when I, when I, that was last fall that I did that session and she told me like, I can't help you anymore. And from that moment on, I literally have just been working on talking to myself and on being more truthful and honest with myself. So that means that when I sit down to write about something, I no longer wax poetic about what I'm feeling.
Erin Wawok (30:04.43)
or a scenario like I used to. I used to almost like put myself in a character when I would journal, which I didn't even know I was doing. I did it because that's the only way I knew how to function. And, you know, when I wrote as a younger person that I was writing through with a protector on, you know? So now it's just like, she basically said to me, like, you need to talk to,
Erin Wawok (30:33.582)
your inner child the way that you talk to people around you, which is like, hell yeah, girl, get it. That's how I talk to other people. It's very easy for me to get on board with other people's ideas and to be so excited for what other people are doing and cheer them on and also be kind of a little bit more, I guess just more like crass and informal and, you know,
Erin Wawok (31:03.47)
all the stuff that absolutely makes me me. But then when I would go inside or I would tell a story that was more difficult, I would turn on this who knows face, like just very formal, very protective language, very careful with how he was saying things. And it was like this persona that I put on. So I'm basically right now I'm just feeling how to like, feeling through.
Erin Wawok (31:32.43)
how to throw that away completely, to not tell stories that way, to be more transparent with what happened to me. I was groomed by a teacher in high school, and that's not okay at a missionary kids' school. It's not okay, and yes, it happened. And I have never...
Erin Wawok (32:00.142)
previously been able to tell the story that way. It was always, I had this weird interaction with a teacher and you know, it was really strange because you know, just very kind of distant language and very careful language, I would say very Christian language. So, yeah, just kind of learning how to get rid of that and allow myself to love myself.
Erin Wawok (32:28.334)
and not listen to the inner critic that is very loud. Sometimes that tells me that I'm not okay to say things the way that I am or to feel the way that I do. So that was a very long way of answering your question. I love it. Like you're getting your voice back, you know? And I love that. I think that's so important and it's something I've recognized for myself too, that editing.
Erin Wawok (32:56.846)
Even like, I I love writing. I've loved writing my whole life. And so my therapist thought, like, why don't we use exercises that have writing in them? And I couldn't do it. I couldn't write about myself. And that was eye opening. And I almost, I had to do the same thing of like, finding how to write about myself in an honest way. Have you figured it out?
Erin Wawok (33:24.27)
I think so. I had to get over this weird fear of someone reading it. That's what it kept coming back to, like, who's going to read this? And I think sometimes I'm scared for myself to read it later. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't want to not like myself. I don't want to not like the younger version of myself if I were to come back to that. But I think something that was...
Erin Wawok (33:51.982)
really helpful for me is I thought I edited more in when I was in high school and middle school. I assumed that I did because I always journaled. When I went back and read those journals, I was like, I was more aware than I thought I was. I was saying a lot more than I thought I was. That somehow gave me
Erin Wawok (34:19.022)
permission, like I can do that again. And I also think it's been a gift for me. Like I even said one time, you know, in a session, I just said, it's like my 16 year old self knew I would need to read this one day. Like she was documenting evidence of what she knew I would need one day. And it honestly blew my mind because I didn't know it was even there. I didn't know that that much. Yep.
Erin Wawok (34:48.078)
evidence and thought was there. I think that's given me a permission just because it's been a gift to me now. I'm like, okay, then maybe what I'm writing now will be a gift later on or I'm finding it to be a gift even now to write my way into healing sometimes. Yeah. That's really cool.
Erin Wawok (35:14.382)
You mentioned to me previously in another conversation that you've been editing things out and slowly taking things away. Can you tell me the why behind that and just what that looks like and maybe what you're hoping to find or gain from that? Yeah. So some of that does come back to maybe a little bit of it is mental editing.
Erin Wawok (35:39.918)
where I'm just saying we are not going to get involved in five different sports for my kids. And we're not going to involve ourselves in music lessons and tap dancing and all the different things that you can get involved in. And not only that, but there is kind of like a Keeping Up With The Joneses kind of expectation of like, if you are...
Erin Wawok (36:07.95)
a family that cares about your kids, then you have them involved in like literally every single thing that you can. And so some of it is not so much that I had my kids involved in so much and I'm paring that down. It's more just a conscious mental editing of, hey, Erin, we don't need to go looking for more things for the kids to do. In fact, like we're going to unfollow some of that stuff on social media so that we're not even seeing it.
Erin Wawok (36:37.326)
or if someone asks what you're doing, like what your family is doing for the summer, that your answer doesn't have to like sound really cool and your answer doesn't have to involve something that, you know, means that you spent a ton of money, which like, again, I understand that those things are important, but somehow they become the narrative if you're not careful.
Erin Wawok (37:04.078)
And so a lot of it is just being really cautious about like not downplaying the fact that we're keeping our life small and we really are enjoying it. Like it's really enjoyable. And also, so I would say like that, that's one, probably the biggest editing is actually just going on in my head, which is like, we don't need to do more things. We don't need to be more visible in our community. We don't need to,
Erin Wawok (37:34.51)
I don't know, like sign up for the next big thing. I don't have to have a gym membership where I'm attending a bunch of classes. I have all that stuff available to me at home. I want to be doing more. That's the other thing is I am very social, very outgoing. I want to do all of those things. And it is really, really difficult for me to make that effort to live slowly.
Erin Wawok (38:01.102)
And I was going to ask what you're finding, you're protecting your kids from in that, like you're protecting something for your kids. And so, yeah, what does that look like or what are you finding? Yeah, yeah. So actually a lot of it is because I didn't have access to a bunch of stuff when I was a kid. And I think that was a large part of why I...
Erin Wawok (38:30.254)
I know there's like a part of me that thrived because I didn't have all of my time spent with after school activities or you know, whatever. So I think some of it is just protecting my kids from thinking that that's how life is supposed to be. Some of it is that and the other part, it really is just mental health. Like it just, it really just comes down to,
Erin Wawok (38:58.446)
reading and research and things like podcasts I've listened to and stuff that are just talking about the frantic pace at which we live our life and knowing that that starts in childhood. And if I put my kids in the position of thinking that being busy is what makes life life, that they will, it will be much more difficult for them when they become adults.
Erin Wawok (39:27.726)
to find themselves because they will first have to unpack. They're gonna have to unpack a lot of shit anyway, to be honest, but they're gonna first have to unpack how to not believe that the things that they're doing is what life is, you know? Those are just things. Those are things that you're filling your time with, but those don't, those are a part of your life. Those are not life. They're not the crux of life.
Erin Wawok (39:54.798)
I think some of it is that. Also, I think life is complex and such, but even though there was a lot of hardship in my childhood, one thing I remember is that I often was told no. I wanted to be involved in everything, but I also needed them to tell me no. There was a part of me that felt protected when I was told no.
Erin Wawok (40:24.654)
And I very strongly believe that that is a part of telling my own kids no, that gives them a sense of security, which is like sounds kind of backwards. But I know that it's true. Science says it's true. I know it's true. Absolutely. No, I need to hear that because I have a daughter who is you.
Erin Wawok (40:49.934)
Who wants to be involved in all the things wants to do all the things? And I so yeah, that's a great reminder like no like like I am protecting something in the know Even if it's a hard a hard thing up front. I appreciate that perspective, right? What what do you feel like is a good takeaway from from our conversation today? Well,
Erin Wawok (41:18.574)
the things that you're pursuing or the things that you feel like most of your time is going into right now does not have to be glitzy, glamorous, well articulated to other people in order for it to be good for you, in order for it to be a really healthy thing for your family. And I think living in an age where...
Erin Wawok (41:46.35)
talking about things and I say this, like I guess I'm even being critical of podcasts as well, but social media too, like living in an age where talking about yourself is so easy to do. It is easy to think that you, unless you can define something in words, it isn't happening or it's like not meaningful somehow. And I just,
Erin Wawok (42:15.054)
want to say loud and clear that that is not true and that wherever you are at, you are certainly not alone. If all you're doing right now is just like, I don't know, making dinner and holding your kids on the couch, like that's okay. And you know, there's seasons for everything too. So take it all in stride, mama. I love it.
Erin Wawok (42:44.494)
I love it. Thank you. Thank you for just sharing what's behind your heart for your family and for yourself. It's a beautiful thing to be in a place where you can examine that and that it's a beautiful gift that you're giving to your family.