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Real Conversations for Real New Mexicans.
The Chile Wire with A. Baldonado. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Chile Wire. This week, I'm excited.
Abe Baldonado:You may have seen her on social media and she's here with us on The Chile Wire today. Jennifer Musgrab Velarde, my fellow Nortena, is here with us in The Chile Wire studios. Jennifer, thank you for stopping by.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Danjos, Dave. Greetings. Am so excited to be here. Norteno, true New Mexico, true right here in the house.
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. You know, before we started recording, I had mentioned to you that my family is from Northern New Mexico, deep roots. We're mestizos, Yes. And my family's roots run very deep in Northern New Mexico. As I mentioned, I have family that lives in Chama and their ancestors are part of the Hikariya nation.
Abe Baldonado:And so thank you all. Thank you for being an advocate for Northern New Mexico and speaking truth, speaking facts about our shared heritage and our values. And I think it's been really refreshing to see another Northenia getting out and becoming an advocate and trying to get people to understand what's happening in our state because there are people, there are agendas outside of New Mexico that are stripping away our culture and our way of life here in New Mexico, and it doesn't reflect our values and the way that we were raised.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:That's true, Dave. That's absolutely true. And when I think of as nortenos, you know, our history goes long back generations upon generations upon generations.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Way before the Mayflower, way before the Pilgrims.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Well, honestly, even Hickory Apache Nation, we wouldn't have even been here had it not been for the long diplomacy and allyship. And many people don't realize, but New Mexico is not only holds the oldest capital, but the Hickory are also the last of Indian country to peacefully sign for those lands up north Wow. Long after... After Jeronimo. Wow.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:So that is something that we celebrate. So, you know, that history has continued. And I think it's important too that we even go back to our school days. You know, you and I, we we went to elementary school and middle school. And, you know, growing up in New Mexico, there's none of this racism in the sense of you're not looking at a person, you look at their character.
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know? But you're not... Even a lot of these terms that they're using now, like, oh, so and so is a colonizer, so and so is suddenly a settler. And a lot of this, I think, is coming from the outside. And we saw a lot of this increase, especially after 10/07/2023.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. No. There's definitely forces out there that want to drive division and they bring up, you know, again, as you said, the Spanish and the Native Americans made peace many years ago.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:But they're coming back with the rhetoric of you're on stolen land and it's not even coming from folks from the nations, from the pueblos. It's coming from folks that are not even Native American or Spanish that are trying to push this absurd absurd message that just tries to divide us once again. Right? We saw it in Santa Fe with the obelisk. You know?
Abe Baldonado:They tore it down. But that was a symbol of peace that the Spanish and the Native Americans came to peace and settled together. Yeah. You know? Yes.
Abe Baldonado:History was violent. Yes. There are some ugly truths to that, but we made it past it. We we healed. We we made peace.
Abe Baldonado:And now today, you know, we we share that heritage because now we are mestizos. Right? We're mixed blood. Like, you look at my family, it runs deep. Know, I have family on one side.
Abe Baldonado:You know, my my mother grew up in... Was just right outside of Espanola. My dad grew up in El Rito. And, again, my family runs all the way up to Chama in the Southern Colorado border. And I grew up in Las Vegas, New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:My dad was in the army, and so he got transferred over there. That's where I grew up. But I spent a lot of my childhood visiting my family in Northern New Mexico. And one thing I learned is that I've never looked at anyone as, oh, I'm Spanish, they're Native American. No.
Abe Baldonado:Because you look at our bloodlines, we're mestizos. We're mixed. Our blood has now been driven with Spanish and Native American blood. And that's what makes our culture so beautiful in New Mexico. And it frustrates me when you have outside interests trying to divide us and starting rhetoric that, hey, our ancestors made peace with this a long time ago.
Abe Baldonado:Can we move on now?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, in the Jicarilla, we call it through war, peace has been had Mhmm. And that's something that we understand, and there's blessings that have come. And, you know, you don't want to continue to be in war. You don't want to be... And I think people ideologize in the sense of, they look to the past with an ideal that it is better than it is today.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And in many ways, we need to look at history as nothing but the past. It's a factual repository of events that happened.
Abe Baldonado:And educational. We learn
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:They're from educational, but people need to learn to separate. That is the past. That is not the reality that we are living in today. You know, and I think that's an important message for all New Mexicans and for the world to understand. History is long gone.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Be in the present of who you are. And when you look at who your relations are, who your families are, who your people are, you look at who's next to you. You look at the people who you grew up with. You know, you look at the families that are regardless of their skin color or their gender or where their people even came from. In the present day, they are yours.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:They're your, you know, my my relations. And I think that's important as New Mexicans for us to get back to that. We're all relations. Absolutely. In some way, we're relatives or relations.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, we're familiar. You know, and I think as New Mexicans, it's also important for us to remember our history. We are... We're never Mexico. Well, in the sense of we're older than Mexico.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:We were under... Only under Mexico rule barely for twenty seven years. You know, the Noteno Revolt, we always talk about the Pueblo Revolt. Very people... Very few people talk about Jose Gonzales Mhmm.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Who was of... During the Noteno Revolt, that's actually how we gained into statehood. But he was from, Namba Pueblo and Taos Pueblo. And, what's so interesting about... And this was in the eighteen hundreds.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:This was during this time when... The twenty seven years when Mexico... Actually, Jose's influence, and he was the first governor, actually the first native American governor of these lands.
Abe Baldonado:That's
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:amazing. Long ago. And, you know, these are histories that we need to remember and that are, again, taught to our children. Absolutely. And not so much of this racial division that in many ways are coming from outside.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. And, you know, I wanted to talk about, you know, the use of words really fast too.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm. Absolutely.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:When we were younger, it was perfectly socially acceptable to hear the word Hispanic. Yeah. I'm a Hispano or I'm, I you heard that all of the time, you know, and even the noteno, the the lengua that we speak is completely different than Mexico. You know, I've traveled down into parts of Mexico, even down into Central and into South America, And I tell you, not all Spanish speakers are speaking Mexican.
Abe Baldonado:My wife is Mexican American Yes. And her family. And we... She'll sometimes judge me. She'll say, what did you just say?
Abe Baldonado:What word? I'm like, hey. That that's a norteno term right there. You know? It's our slang.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. It's like that that does not make any sense. And, you know, we've even had like little mess ups because we've miscommunicate. You know, one time, you know, I said jamon and, you know, she's like, Ham? And I'm like, No.
Abe Baldonado:Bacon. Know? Bacon. And they're like, No. We don't call bacon jamon.
Abe Baldonado:You know, again, Northern New Mexico Spanish is one of a kind. Unfortunately, and Jennifer, I hate to admit, I'm guilty of this myself. I never learned... Can speak a little bit, you know, and I understand and thanks to my wife I've learned a lot more. You know, my parents, first generation Spanish speakers, my grandparents as well, you know?
Abe Baldonado:English was their second language. However, for me, English was my first language. I grew up in school... Like, we didn't speak Spanish, you know? And I heard my parents speaking Spanish at home and when they'd go to my grandparents, they'd speak Spanish only.
Abe Baldonado:My grandfather on one side of my family only spoke Spanish. He never spoke any English. And, you know, I grew up without learnings or being strong and fluent in Spanish. And I look back now and I regret that I didn't try harder because it is harder to learn Spanish at an older age than when I was younger. But I blame my parents.
Abe Baldonado:And if my mom's listening, mom, yes, I'm blaming you a little bit. But I remember I used to ask, what are you guys talking about when they'd be around the dinner table speaking Spanish? And they'd say, well, learn Spanish. So you know what we're saying? And I'm like, well, that's why I'm asking.
Abe Baldonado:What does this mean? You know? But again, you know, it is just such a unique identity in Northern New Mexico specifically because it runs very deep. It is, you know, we talk about early settlement. We talk about the Spanish influence that came initially.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:It is... It's very present even in today. You know...
Abe Baldonado:But it's a dying language and that's what scares me and I feel bad about it. And that's the point I wanted to make is that, you know, wish I would have taken more time to like truly it. And, you know, my grandparents passed away with me not knowing as much Spanish and giving me a hard time about it. And looking back, I think to myself, man, I wish I would have taken a little bit more time to learn it and be able to speak it fluently because it is such a unique language in Northern New Mexico. And funny story, you know, my dad was sharing a story with my wife one day and he's like, you know, when I was in the army, don't remember what state he was in, and he said something and someone said, are you from Northern New Mexico?
Abe Baldonado:And my dad's like, I am. He's like, that Spanish right there was very clear that that's a Northern New Mexican dialect. And my dad's like, No. Yep. I'm from Northern New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:That's where I was born and raised. And, you know, it's just such a beautiful culture. And it's not even just one culture. It's a mixture of cultures, melting pot of cultures that have made it what it is today. But I think about a lot of my friends and some of my family that we learn the language.
Abe Baldonado:We're not strong in it. Yes, we can communicate a little bit, but it's not something that we use every single day.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. Well, Abe, you know, it's never too late.
Abe Baldonado:That's true. I try. I'm practicing learning. I am.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:That's good. And even passing it to your children. You know, I'm a linguist and I'm also a historian, and I work a lot, too, with the revitalization of our Hickory Apache nation in language, Havache Misia. And one of the things that's really interesting when we talk about the influence of Spanish, the Castilian Spanish, we 100% see that. You know, even within language itself, there's a history, an epitomology to language.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:So, for instance, in in Hicorilla, we say, you know, in, Spanish, you say,.
Abe Baldonado:Right.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, the reason why is because the... That's what we call the. We call the Spanish that came, na meaning their feet, mini, and kay, is their feet, and is their moving, so they were the roamers. They they walked in, so to speak. And when you look at history, even as the Jicarias, we were one of the first that Oneonte's expedition even encountered.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And when Oneonte and they all came walking, we even understand the history of the development of the horse and how the horse came to be. So many people assume that the Spanish brought a a couple of mustangs, and all of these mustangs, suddenly resulted to the amount of horses that we have now, and that's absolutely not true. I'm gonna tell you why. Yeah. Because Hikkorea is very honest with our language, and it's a very, very old language that is still spoken here to this day.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:We're considered a socio anthropological enclave, so to speak, because our language continues. You know? In Hikariya, we say You put their tongue on the roof behind your teeth and you spit out on both sides, kinda like if you ever seen a horse go,. Yeah........... And, in Spanish, it's cabajo.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Oh. You know?
Abe Baldonado:Cabajo. Yeah.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Not at all the same because we had the horse. You cannot hunt a buffalo. That's what our people were known for hunting. Have you ever seen a buffalo?
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. We got some beautiful buffalo up in our trauma land and cattle.
Abe Baldonado:I've actually ran into an albino buffalo. Oh. I've heard that's rare. I've heard it is very rare, but I've ran into an albino buffalo before and it caught me off guard. I'm like, wait a minute, is that a white buffalo?
Abe Baldonado:And sure enough. And then I learned later on, they're actually extremely rare.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. Well, I think when you see any albino animal, that's a sight and a precious thing to see. Many people have, you know, superstitions about albinos, but I just see it as God's creation and a blessing, if it came out a little different. But, you know, there's... I've even seen albino deer before, you know, and that's a sight to see.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Have not seen one
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:of those. Yeah. But, you know, when... Again, when we we go back to language and all of that, you know, here in New Mexico, Mexico, we we have have a diverse amount of languages. Mhmm.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:It's not only, like, our Spanish, but it's also our 23 tribes and Pueblos and the different languages And that they I think that's a misconception too that, you know, all the Apaches speak the same languages. Right. There's nine different bands of Apaches, and, you know, Muscalero Apache is not the same as Hickory Apache. You know, and people will often say, oh, well, you're part of the same language family. And, you know, romance languages like Spanish, French, Italian, you know, Portuguese, all
Abe Baldonado:of
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:those are distinct languages that all of them don't speak in the same... Even in the Germanic languages, like English. Our our family to English, the closest thing is German. It's part of the Germanic family. And, I've I've had some friends that are German, and you cannot understand a word if you're going, no.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You might... I mean... And people will be like, well, you'll understand, you know, but, if I'm like, you will understand innately. I'm pointing at water here, you
Abe Baldonado:know. But if you didn't have water...... Speak... Right.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You don't speak it at all, you know. And I think people misunderstand the power of the human mind too. Like, even if... Have you ever seen online where they have a... Where the first letter and the n letter of a word are the same, and then they'll mix up the letters in between and you're still able to read it.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. That's because the human mind is a lot more powerful than we realize. And even when it comes to language development or any skill that you're looking at, it's like a muscle in your body, you know? Yeah, train it. Train it, absolutely.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And it's never too old. You know, learning multiple languages, you know, I'm a polyglotto scholar. You know? Even the Spanish that, when you go back to some of those records dating back to the sixteen hundreds, a lot of them are actually in Latin, which I also read, Latin. I took that in high school as well.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:So it's, my point being is that even in the development of language itself, like even terms like, the resurgence that we've seen of the word mestizo, you know, or like how the use of the word Hispanic. You remember how prevalent it used to be for us growing up, and now it's like, oh my gosh, you can't you can't say
Abe Baldonado:that. Well, have to say Latino, and I'm like, I'm not Latino.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Not Latino is a term that was invented in the eighteen hundreds. You know, Hispanics, even older than the word Latino, you know, the word Chicano? That was something that was really developed during the nineteen seventies.
Abe Baldonado:The China movement.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Absolutely. And people don't understand. You know, just because a word has started to be used doesn't necessarily mean what it meant to be. Right. You know?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And I think it's important for us, even if you're a single language speaker, you know, to also understand that there's different ways of understanding and different ways of knowing. And even though you might not be able to speak a language, your brain is wanting to understand. And that's a good thing. And as long as you keep doing that, your brain's going to grow. It's a good thing.
Abe Baldonado:I always ask my wife, I'm like, how did I say this word in Spanish? Or what did you just say? What was Yeah. And want to I'm curious, right? So, Jennifer, I want to transition really quick because we talked a lot about our history, But I'd love to talk about our present and our future.
Abe Baldonado:And you've become very vocal online. You've started sharing your thoughts, your opinions on a number of issues facing our state and facing our people. But we have a big election coming up. And I really believe that it will determine New Mexico's future. Either we're going to double down on bad policy and further set our state back or are people are gonna say, you know what?
Abe Baldonado:We're tired. We're tired of being last in everything good and first in everything bad. We're just tired of it. We need a change. We need to elect new people.
Abe Baldonado:We need fresh blood. And you started getting involved. But I'm curious, what got you involved? You know, what what made you... You know, anytime I talk to someone who gets very involved in politics and policy, a line was crossed.
Abe Baldonado:And you're like, hey, you know what? No. I have to speak out because that doesn't reflect my values. That's not what I believe. That's not how I was raised.
Abe Baldonado:And, you know, now we see on the gubernatorial ticket, we see a big emphasis being played, and we talked a little bit about this earlier before we started the podcast. Identity politics, which is just racism covered up as identity politics, But we're seeing a big push for Deb Haaland. And I just find it frustrating that they're creating this idea that all Native Americans support Deb Haaland, which is not true because we saw in the primary and even now during the general, there are a number of nations and Pueblos that did not endorse her. They don't support her. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:And I feel like they're trying to put Native Americans into this box that, hey, you're all right here and you have to support Deb Haaland. And if you don't support Deb Haaland, well, you're terrible. How could you not? And it's like, well, does Deb Haaland represent my values? Does she represent what I believe is to be the best policies, the best direction for our state, for my community.
Abe Baldonado:And I think representation matters. It absolutely does. But with representation comes values, integrity, experience. And I think those sort of things should play a major role. Not just hey, this is your identity.
Abe Baldonado:Identity is just one piece of who we are. What speaks to who we are is our character and how we speak with people, how we relate to people, how we understand, and how we have a moral compass between right and wrong, and also some common sense. Like, hey, this just doesn't make sense. But I'd love to get your thoughts because you've become very vocal, and I can tell something frustrated you and you said, you know what? I've had it.
Abe Baldonado:I'm going to start speaking my mind and I'm going to tell people how it is. Yeah. Well, Abe,
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I sure appreciate you inviting me. And, you know, I can tell you the day I went viral in the sense of where a lot of it, went big, and that was 10/07/2023. And though I... Honestly, the story begins before that. If I were to go back, it began in...
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:During 2016 in Standing Rock, in which time I actually went up there. And, I was born into Indian country and into Indian politics. I carry the muskrat and the Velardi last name, muskrat through my Cherokee side and my father, and Velardi through my mother on my jicarilla side. And, I went to went to school with many of these that are even prominent in the far left nowadays that you'll see in many of my videos that I'm actually making good fun of.
Abe Baldonado:And Yeah. To those guys, you know, it's
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:in good fun just like when we were at boarding school, you know, when it's in a good debate and everything like that. But when I started to see where, you know, people out in Standing Rock and having to tell some of those people that were so disillusioned with the past, thinking that the actions of their ancestors, they somehow needed to martyr themselves. And, you know, this is, again, an important message to all. The history is in the past. You know?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I am not my ancestors, and you're not your ancestors either. And carrying around all of this guilt isn't good or healthy. And when I went out to Standing Rock, I saw a lot of people that were just lost, completely lost, and I thought of all of your family and your relatives that were wondering where you were. And I saw that time where actors and so much big money was getting thrown in, and they wanted us to go live. And believe it or not, that's actually where my...
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:That's my personal following. I went up to 4,000 just live streaming from over there in addition to my own people. You know, my own people are only 4,000, but not everyone has social media. Social media. Know?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:But I went out there and I helped too, you know, with the mapping. And the tribe actually wanted it. Ogallala Sioux wanted that. It was some social media influencers and environmental NGOs that pushed so much money in. And they were literally paying and having schools to teach some of these young people.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And I say young people as even in their twenties and in their thirties, you know, to grab smoke grenades, to throw it back, and that somehow you were going to win a war against a tank. You know? And even the tribal sovereignty of Oglala Sioux, because the tribe would have benefited too from that area it went through. And Oglala Sioux was upset, you know, and they left it trashed. And my turning point was telling a father out in California that his daughter, you know, his hand was nearly blown off, You know?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And she was just so delusioned, and it was a breaking point for me. And I left. I said, I can't... This isn't right. This isn't right, and I don't care how much money...
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, at the end of the day, you got to sleep. You got to sleep with yourself. You got to sleep with God. And you can't cause that much amount of pain. And that's where I term that profiting off of the marketing of misery because that's all that is.
Abe Baldonado:And we see
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:they're the love cosplaying it. Like, they're playing Avatar in the present day and that's just not right. And then, you know, I...
Abe Baldonado:Shame shame on the people who are funding these paid protests and endangering people and
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:And and manipulating them. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I'm not either.
Abe Baldonado:It is proven now protesters and Yeah. There is a larger agenda out there that is funneling money to put people in very dangerous situations and preying upon people who maybe don't know better or maybe may not be educated in a particular issue.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:And they're essentially using them as collateral damage and it's unfortunate just to build this narrative. And, you know, I saw it plenty when I worked for the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association, a lot of these paid protesters. And I'm like, y'all are putting yourselves in so much danger over what? Yeah. Over prosperity?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:No. And It's a false prosperity at that. And what bothers me is it's a form of virtue signaling and it's a savior mentality where they think that throwing cans or, you know, putting themselves on the line is somehow going to change, and it's not at all. Yeah. You know?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And they're even using the same resources to get themselves there. Oil and gas accounts for 96% of our modern world. Right. It isn't literally everything. And you want to talk about prosperity?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You talk about doing it responsibly. Mhmm. And what bothered me about that? And it carried on. Standing Rock was what led to Chaco Canyon and all of that, and I've been a strong advocate against that because Hickory Apache Nation, we actually benefit from our oil and gas.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:It's on our seal. Absolutely. You know, tribes do so well for themselves that a lot of tribes give their tribal members dividends like a corporate shareholder would, you know, just if you were to buy stock in any major corporation. And if they perform well, you get money back from it.
Abe Baldonado:You Ronald Reagan pitched that in the eighties and never went through, but Ronald Reagan had pitched a potential energy dividend or I think it was called carbon dividend. Yeah. That, you know, whatever profits were made from oil and gas, if it was in an oil and gas developing state, like say the Permian or the San Juan, individuals in those counties or in those cities or municipalities would be given a credit. They would be given a dividend. And so each year they would make money off of it.
Abe Baldonado:And which, you know, his idea was, hey, let's lift people up, you know, because there are opportunities. And what frustrates me is I learned a lot about Chaco when I worked for Namoga and I got to engage with many from the Dinah Nation, specifically the Nagizi chapter and some wonder... And I'm sure you've probably met Delora Jesus. Delora is a dear friend of mine, but hearing her story and her Tia, Alice, story and no one talks about how much that energy development matters to those families because it is their way of life. It's their income.
Abe Baldonado:It's their way to stay out of poverty and to make ends meet. And what bothers me is no one talks about that. They just talk about Chaco and I'm saying, look, there's a 10 mile buffer zone right now. There's not even oil and gas development in Chaco right now. It is far away.
Abe Baldonado:And, you know, I I heard your radio interview with Elias, and I and I heard that, you know, there was rhetoric out there that there was like 4,000 active oil rigs around Chaco, which is not true. Baker Hughes shows the daily rig count for New Mexico. We only have 98 active wells right now across the entire state of New Mexico. So to create this illusion that there's this problem... And look, the native people are some of the greatest stewards I know because they appreciate the land.
Abe Baldonado:They wanna take care of the land. And same with the Dine Nation and the Nagizi chapter. Right? They protect their lands, but they also live off their lands. And so they understand, hey, oil and gas plays a big role in my life, my family's life.
Abe Baldonado:It's our way of survival. It's our way of providing. And I just get so frustrated because not many people understand that. They hear the outcry of, oh, our public land of Chaco, we have to protect it, and we have these protesters out here. I'm like, why aren't you talking about the Nagizi folks that rely a lot on these royalties as a means to survive.
Abe Baldonado:And there's just a lot of hypocrisy there. Just sometimes I feel like they leave that part out on purpose because it doesn't serve the narrative that they're trying to create.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Mhmm. Absolutely, Eiben. When you look at Nagizi, Nagizi is not too far from where I live, from the southern end of the Hickory Apache Nation Reservation. We call that area Apache Corners.
Abe Baldonado:Apache Corners? I like that. But I'm going to think about that now when I drive to Farmington, I'm be like, I think I'm passing Apache Corners now.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yes. Yes. But, you know, we've been doing oil and gas safely since 1954 on the Hickory Apache Nation reservation, you know, and it's been even before I was born. I grew up next to oil and natural gas fields, even the home I grew up. We we have some of the purest energy, natural gas.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:It burns pure blue, So there's even a spectrum on that of how clean and how Mhmm. How good that fuel is. You know, even growing up, that was what fueled our homes and our our oven stoves. Yeah. You know, right there from the land and it's pure.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And where there's oil and gas, there's also water. And I tell you, we have some of the sweetest, cleanest water. And when I see a lot of these paid funded activists, and I do know these people individually, I know these people on a personal basis. I went to school with some of these people that are crying, oh my god. The oil spills.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And legacy media will 100% pull up these narratives that are just completely full of it. You know, I... I'm 40 years old. I grew up next to oil and gas, and it's a strong part not only of Hickory and Navajo Nation, but it's also for those rural communities that date back all the way back to those homestead era, you know, all the way back. And it's it's a vital lifeline to all New Mexicans because it's that oil and gas that also pump these social programs in the state.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:So your education, hospitals, the roads, all of these social networks that we have are funded by our oil and gas primarily. And this move to greenwash the area are also having a negative socioeconomic impact. There is no remediation efforts for those solar panels that, guess what, are made out of oil and gas or any of those batteries. It's going to be left there, and these carbon credits is another waste of money. And this aspect of let's not cut down any of the timber or the dead trees, where do you think our forest fires are coming from?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Because it's no longer responsible management, and even those timber sales benefit the state of New Mexico, even on the state public lands. And people need to understand that it's not just the oil and gas, but it's these Navajo Nation people and their ability to even get out on their road to school. They are going to be enclosed in a nature park that has already been expanded. Chaco Canyon has continued to be expanded. And you're right.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Right now, we're sitting at 42,000 protected acres. They're wanting to expand that to 336,000 acres.
Abe Baldonado:Wow.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:That is astronomical. And you're having families in that county.
Abe Baldonado:What frustrates me, Jennifer, is those protesters, those NGOs, the environmentalists, the advocates for public lands as they like to call themselves, you're empowering government. The US government to encroach on... On Indian land?... Nations. Indian land, right?
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. You're really stripping away self determination. And what matters most to many Native Americans, especially that some of the... A lot of the nations in Pueblos is that we want our self determination. Don't encroach on that.
Abe Baldonado:And so when we start spreading out that acreage around Chaco, we're saying, guess what, Navajo Nation? You don't get to have self determination. You don't get to benefit from your natural resources that exist on the land that was given to you. And we're gonna start taking that away. And that is counterintuitive to the message that these protesters are preaching.
Abe Baldonado:Right? They're like, we're actually looking out. No. You're actually damaging everything that Native Americans have advocated for in protecting their lands and being able to live off their land. And now you're saying, hey, we want all your acreage owned by the US government, which in fact actually belongs to Navajo Nation.
Abe Baldonado:But we're gonna strip away your opportunity to live off of the natural resources that exist on your land. We're gonna, you know, eminent domain this piece of public land and expand it even further. You know, it frustrates me because I have deep ties to this in my family. My uncle was with Reyes Tejerina during the Tierra Maria Yeah. Courthouse raid because government was encroaching on our private lands.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. And the grazing.
Abe Baldonado:Yep. And the grazing. And it was something that my uncle advocated for. And I'm proud to know that that's in my heritage, that my uncle fought that. And he was right there with Reyes Tejadina, you know, and same with my grandfather.
Abe Baldonado:And you talk about protecting our public lands. My parents were impacted by the Hermits Peak Calf Canyon Fire, which we start seeing that these environmentalists start saying climate change. No. It was the United States government under President Joe Biden that authorized a prescribed burn at the worst On a time windy day? On a windy day with plans that were five years old.
Abe Baldonado:No response. About no response, negligence. But my grandfather was a logger. That's how he made his his living and they put loggers out of business in our state. Mhmm.
Abe Baldonado:And now we start dealing with forest fires. It's like, well, we ended logging. We said it was bad. Yeah. Logging is terrible, you know?
Abe Baldonado:And the folks that want to end oil and gas now, it's like, okay. Well, we're gonna go back to burning wood then because you all didn't like burning wood. You didn't like logging. Don't even want you to burn the wood.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. You know? And they want to cut off the... Even the access roads Mhmm. With this, we're gonna go back to this pristine no roads at all.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, they don't want your pickup truck, and a lot of people don't understand You ain't taking
Abe Baldonado:my pickup truck. You're not
Abe Baldonado:taking my pickup truck, and you're not telling me where
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I could go get my load of wood. Cause, you know, even when you're from the country and you're collecting wood, sometimes you do have to go off road.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. You do.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And it's ridiculous. And a lot of this dead wood, it needs to be gone. Yeah. You know? And even a lot of the dead wood, they'll they'll be like, oh, well, it just naturally needs to disintegrate.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And it's like a thousand years later, so these people do not understand. And honestly, I have to tell you, Abe, I wonder what do they eat? I really wonder because they're anti grazing, they're anti farming, they're anti meat, they're anti hunting and fishing, you know, they're anti even staying warm with the fire. Yeah. And I have no idea.
Abe Baldonado:Well, and I wonder how they expect to get good health care. Our hospitals run off of natural gas and many of the advances in technology that are lifesaving to us now are all derived petroleum.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And the modern world? And the modern world.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. I mean, you know... They're talking about the sixteen hundreds.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. And you see Europe right now that, you know, they went through their heat... Their little heat streak this summer and there's no central air. There's no such thing as like central air conditioning in your hotel, you know. And these people just...
Abe Baldonado:I'm like, we are very privileged in America. Absolutely. And God forbid we ever have to go back to providing for ourselves because we've taught many generations now not the skills of hunting and fishing and providing for yourself and being able to even garden, plant something, you know, to provide your crops, you know. And there's this disillusion now that where folks don't even know where their groceries come from. They think that like they get their produce from Walmart or Smith's or Albertsons.
Abe Baldonado:Like, no. A farmer or a rancher planted that somewhere. They they work their butt off Yeah. To to to get this to you. And what happens when that supply chain doesn't exist?
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. What are you gonna do? Do you have the means to provide for yourself? Can you go out and hunt an elk or a deer or even just fish? Right?
Abe Baldonado:Because it is a skill. Mhmm. You know, it's not like you just go out in the mountains and you find elk and deer. You have to be strategic. You have to know and and I get an idea.
Abe Baldonado:Where do they where do they roam? Where do they go drink water?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:What's the water source that they go to when they're thirsty? Where's where's the food source for them? And those are all the little fine details that make hunting fun, but also very difficult. It's not easy. Right?
Abe Baldonado:It's not that you just show up and like, Oh, there's a deer. Let me take it. No. Fishing. Fishing teaches you patience because it's not that easy.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. That's absolutely true. And I think people have an imagination and they're always the hero in their own story. And I think, too, with... Especially people, people tell a story in how they look and in how they dress and how they see themselves and how they want the world to see themselves.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And a lot of people imagine, Hey, you know, I'm going to be like my ancestors and just go out and it just comes naturally. And we don't respect the knowledge and the wisdom that our ancestors had in even being there today. And one of the things that really bothers me in the present day is that we have a lot of hardworking New Mexicans, especially ranchers and farmers. I'm a fourth generation rancher and farmer. And I say I'm a fourth generation because when my great great grandfather, chief Garfield Vallarty, was signed for peace, that was four generations back.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And some of these people, I I see some of these politicians like wannabe Sanchez running for New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:I guess her friend Michael Perry.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Oh, I
Abe Baldonado:love Michael
Abe Baldonado:He's playing cosplay over Yeah.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:He's cosplaying. You know? Even characters like Ben Ray Lujan. You know, I see Ben Ray
Abe Baldonado:jumping I into an actually know some folks that know the Lujan family. Personally, I went to school with Ben Lujan and they've they've told me he's never been in a ditch his whole life growing up. Was never out there with the and He doesn't even have. The asekias every year. No.
Abe Baldonado:No. But he hops in there and does a commercial and his clothes are completely clean. I'm like, hey, man. I've cleaned The
Abe Baldonado:white gloves.
Abe Baldonado:Cleaned my grandpa's a Secchia before. Remember doing this every spring. I remember we'd get in there and that was the way they taught us hard labor. You're not that clean. You're not that clean when you're doing that.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, but people like Ben Ray are making decisions. He recently implemented, I think the acronym is like the fence, where it's supposed to be, New Mexico is turning fenceless, you know, to preserve our natural landscape. You know? And his idea, because he's a rancher, is that he's gonna put collars, digital collars, on all of the cows, and you're gonna make a little map on... And draw a little line.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And when your cow go across that, it's gonna give a little little shock, little kiss to it. And the the cow is gonna be trained to come around, you know, and turn around. And these things are solar powered, and it's the most ridiculous thing because if you're a
Abe Baldonado:rancher and farmer,
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I've seen... We got even wild cows that will attack a truck that will destroy those things that are mean. Even keeping a collar on a a cow is very hard. Even keeping those tags on a cow is hard, let alone a digital collar with GPS. And in addition to that, solar power is almost useless when you're talking about these mountain areas because the cows during the day, they're in shade.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:They're in the shade when the sun's shining. They're not out there. And he doesn't understand that. But now we're supposed to be as ranchers and farmers transitioning to that.
Abe Baldonado:And who's going to pay for it?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Oh, apparently the federal government, when all we're asking for is proper fencing. You know, all we're asking for is for the side of the road, for the fencing to be maintained, and for the vegetation to be cleared. That's part of the NMDOT's job. There is money for it. You know, pay our NMDOT.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:We got guys on the crew. You know, start funding NMDOT. Instead of a lot of these up in Cuba, right in the most ridiculous place, we have our new... New Mexico's new version of the Butterfly Bridge. California's Butterfly Bridge is coming to near outside of Cuba, New Mexico.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And now they're gonna suddenly change a whole migration of elk and deer, you know, by putting that under an overpass, and it's ridiculous. Hundreds of millions of
Abe Baldonado:deer are gonna... And the elk are gonna know to use this overpass and
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Why why don't you try putting up some fences, clearing the vegetation, and slowing down? Having some law enforcement there because I tell you, people aren't dying from hitting an elk or deer in that area. I used to serve that area as a volunteer sand... With Sandoval County as well as Hickory Apache Nation EMS, and they're not dying from that. They're dying from people.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:People speed far too often on US 550. You are... Many of those people in that area, And if you will not hit an elk or in a deer, if you are going the speed limit and you're watching what is happening in front of you, and believe it or not, if you're driving on the right side of the road, a lot of you are driving on the left in that center lane, and you need to stop it because you're gonna hit one more likely in the middle of that road than you are on either side.
Abe Baldonado:Very dangerous road, no doubt. I've spent a lot of time traveling up to to Farmington and sorry, Jennifer, I may be one of the ones that's speeding a little bit every now and then. Not near Cuba though because I know I know the state of Cuba. They're always out there. Know that's like a no no.
Abe Baldonado:You gotta be careful because Hickory up he's out
Abe Baldonado:there too. I've seen them.
Abe Baldonado:My husband might give you
Abe Baldonado:it again. I've seen them. I know better. And, you know, and again, I jokingly, you know, yes, I speed a little bit. But I know exactly what you're talking about.
Abe Baldonado:There's some people that just go way, way, way, way too fast. And I've seen it even when I've been on that road where, you know, it's 70, I'm going 75, but someone passes me going like 100, and I'm like,
Abe Baldonado:woah. Or just driving down that middle lane without even switching.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:People will, you know, and that does drive me crazy when people will even just drive in that middle lane. Mhmm. You know, I'm sorry, but here we drive on the right.
Abe Baldonado:Even with the passing lane there.
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. Well, Jennifer, to be mindful of your time, just wanna chat with you. Big election coming up. You've started voicing your thoughts on who we need to elect for office. Are there any key races that you're looking at?
Abe Baldonado:Any folks, you know, I know you love representative Martin Zamora. Wishing him the best of luck in Congressional District 3. We're hoping to have him here on the Chile Wire very soon as well. Absolutely. He has done a fantastic job in fundraising.
Abe Baldonado:I know he has made a big impression on folks in Northern New Mexico because as you mentioned, you know, he's just very relatable. He's humble. He is one of those ranchers and farmers who just loves our lands, loves New Mexico, has worked them, and he relates to that. He relates to a lot of the folks in Northern New Mexico who have lived or even had family live the same way and it's just part of our heritage. And so I know he's made great inroads and I know you're a big fan of him, but are there any others?
Abe Baldonado:I know Michael Perry as well, good friend. Yes. We're rooting for you.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I'll just go ahead. I'm a big supporter of Michael Perry. That's really important, especially with his mission to increase our amount of New Mexico public lands. Think that's probably one
Abe Baldonado:of them, you know, not to downplay the gubernatorial whatsoever, that is a very important race for
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:something That's like very a important and that's also a very exciting race. Now, one of the things about the Michael Perry is that Juan Sanchez wasn't even the most qualified of the DNC to be in there. Right. And New Mexicans really need to look at Yeah, even Jonas Maya
Abe Baldonado:had far more experience than
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah, he absolutely. And, you know, one of the things that New Mexicans really need to look at is the funding that is being pushed behind Juan Sanchez and even from his own party with Stephanie Garcia Richards, who's running for Lieutenant governor. That is another anointed position. You know, when we look at other important races, we also have Larry Marker for US Senate running against Ben Ray Lujan. And that...
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Ben Ray is another anointment. And people need to start really seeing that we need to stop anointing people. Let's actually have no kings and vote for the most qualified candidate, and let's practice our democracy. I'm also a big supporter of Zamora because of his time on the Indian Affairs Committee, which had a direct impact on our Indian education. He was also key in getting help with our law enforcement.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:This is an important message for all New Mexicans. Supporting our federal law enforcement is key for Native Americans. It is key to support federal law enforcement that, yes, includes ICE as... Because that is a direct link to to many of our missing murdered indigenous pandemic that we're seeing. You know, support safer communities.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Support a healthier, better economy. And with our Republican ticket, that's what we offer. I'm glad you guys had Ramona Goldsby on as well and, you know, Joshua Ellison and and Didi. And Didi
Abe Baldonado:Go Didi.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yes. Didi is so important for us to get in, especially if health care and your prescription costs are bothering you. And it's important for us to take advantage of this. And I know that my man, Greg Cunningham, has been getting a lot of slack. Hey, Greg, I appreciate you for standing strong.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:You know, I support Greg Cunningham because he stands firm on his beliefs. And even if you might not agree with his beliefs, he's a man that's willing to talk to you and tell you why he stands. And that's all of our red wave. And I'd also like to mention that a lot of my following and what we've been even seeing with, like, The Chile Wire and Elias Cisneros and Corrine Rios and Audrey Trujillo, is the red wave. You know?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Now we're sitting at, on my personal Facebook, over a 100,000 followers. Yeah. And, you know, you... And we're just going to continue to grow
Abe Baldonado:We have voices now talking that are, you know, we're frustrated, Jennifer. You know what? We're not going to stay silent anymore. We're going to call out the BS. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:You know, we're going
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:to call it
Abe Baldonado:out now. Hey, you know what? I... For a long time, I think conservatives just took the punches because we felt like, hey, I don't have a voice or maybe I don't have a village behind me. Right?
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. You know, we're like, hey, you know, yeah, you know what, I'm not going to get into this argument. Yeah. I think we've looked around now over the last couple of years and we're like, this state's not looking like what I remember it to be when I was It's growing not. It's changing for the worst.
Abe Baldonado:We need a shakeup. Honestly, leadership has been ran by Democrats for far too long. We haven't had that balance. And I think if we can restore balance, we could have better policies. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:But right now we have this Democrat socialist movement that is slowly moving into New Mexico that will only hurt our people, that will only further put our people into deeper poverty and push away opportunities from our state and we're gonna push our best and brightest out in our future, they're gonna leave New Mexico. And, you know, one day I looked at, I don't want my future children to leave the state that I love. I stayed here because I love my state and I started the Chile Wire because I love my state. And I realized I'm not the only one. There's Jennifer, there's Elias, there's Hugo, there's Greg Cunningham.
Abe Baldonado:I mean, we have a wonderful group of individuals that are just New Mexican at heart. They just want to fight for our state. And I'm like... Yeah. I'm ready to stand alongside each and every single one of you and start educating our people to wake up.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Yeah. And, you know, this is an important message to all New Mexicans and to all the five zero five. You know, we were reminded during our legislative council inauguration where we had Governor Greg Hall attend for our Hickory Apache nation. And our leadership reminded us, people before party.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And we, as New Mexicans, need to remember, we need to put ourselves before party. We need to put ourselves and our families before all of these things that are happening over in Washington. This election season, you are not voting on who is the president of The United States. That has already been decided. What you are voting for is the best team to lead all New Mexicans, to make us great as you and I, Abe, remember.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And this aspect of socialism, I just really want to hammer down. That is the most anti American thing and the most anti native thing. You cannot say that native Americans are socialists because the Self determination. Well, self determination, but the founding of democracy comes from the Iroquois Confederacy, and I tell you, democracy is as Indian as it gets. And now this is my call to all of Indian country, which, yes, includes not only all 575 tribes, but also all proud American citizens.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:We do not care where you come from, the color of your skin, or what's between your legs. We need to start remembering what's in here and the person and what they have between here. So all New Mexico, it's time to get up, and it's time to stand together, and let's vote to make New Mexico the great land that we remember.
Abe Baldonado:Amen to that. I don't think we could finish off on a better note. Yeah. Other than Jennifer, I forgot to ask you when we first started this thing. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:Red or green?
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Oh, that's as true as a New Mexican question. You know, as a New Mexican born and bred, I was raised with you eat what was on the table. Was it red, the jemez chili or the hatch green chili? And the special days were when it was mixed for meat feast and holidays. And when we went up to the Cuban cafe or El Prados or El Presilianos or the Guinness World Book holding El Brunos in Cuba, where you had the option of two.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:And I I gotta say Christmas because those... Alright. That was special. It's it's a special treat to be able to have two on your table.
Abe Baldonado:I agree. Jennifer, thank you so much. Thank you. God bless you. God bless your And and and God bless you as you continue on this journey to reach out to folks, to advocate, to have conversation.
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. It is refreshing to see a fella Nortena just get out and speak her mind. And so big Well, thank you to
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:I appreciate that. And I'm not sure if others will know by then, but we're actually headed south to Roswell, New Mexico for their state fair. So Oh, wonderful. Headed south, and, I think it's important for us to remember our southern, counties and southern voters. So Roswell, we're coming to you.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. And Jennifer's gonna be ready to go live and chat with every single one of you and share her experience down there. So, we'll be keeping an eye on that as well.
Jennifer Muskrat-Velarde:Thank you.
Abe Baldonado:Well, y'all, that's it. Jennifer, thank you so much for stopping by the Chile Wire. We're gonna wrap up y'all. We'll see you next time. And as Jennifer said, get out and vote.