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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
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Today on the iGaming Daily podcast, we'll be looking back on the first half of a panel session from last week's Affiliate Leaders Digital Day and exploring the world of influencer marketing. Joining Casino Beats' editor Joe Streeter are experts from firms such as Clever Advertising, Affiliados and Smart Socials to discuss influencers and the value of social media marketing, a topic that has definitely hit the headlines following Brazil's ban on X throughout the country.
For listeners who are interested in hearing the full episode, make sure you click the link in the description to register where you'll gain access to not only this panel session, but an additional five panel sessions looking into various topics such as SEO, generative AI, and social responsibility. So with that, here's the first half of the panel session titled, Influencers and the Value of Social Media Marketing. Take it away, Joe.
Thank you for joining us on the Affiliate Digital Day and our conversations continue now. We're going to take a look at the role of influencers and the role of social media, a really important subject. we have really seen the evolution of influencer marketing. We've seen various social media platforms accelerate in recent years as something we're going to explore how operators can best tap into these ecosystems and maximize engagement from new and existing audiences.
And we have a fantastic panel to do that. They come from all different corners of the industry and they really bring a lot of influence themselves. So I will hand over to them to introduce themselves. Marina, yeah, if you could tell us a little bit about what company you're from yourself and how your company uses influencers as well. hi, all.
So basically I'm here representing Clever Advertising. So we are an affiliate, one of the biggest affiliates in the world. Traditionally, Clever Advertising was focused on media buying within the gaming industry. So four years ago, recognizing the evolving market dynamics and the opportunities for innovation, we expanded into new verticals and
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That's when we created the bold department. So basically the bold department works with influencers. We hire and engage with influencers to promote the operators that we collaborate with, maintaining always a focus on performance and acquisition while building also when the webmasters for them. So the model we use with influencers is raising or to the media by one. So we basically select influencers with a line with the brand values.
and the audience demographics to promote our partners offerings. So this approach was created because we, observed a market app four years ago. And basically our mission here working with the influencers is to create value for everyone involved. So the operators, the audiences and the influencers as well. Brilliant. And I'm sure this, this panel discussion will bring a lot of value to all involved too. And Louise.
If you could just introduce yourself too. Of course. Hello everyone. Good morning. So we're at Smart Social. We are a one -stop shop in terms of media investments. So you don't need to hire a lot of media companies to do your media investments. So in terms of branding, in terms of traffic, nowadays we focus on gathering new media kind of investments in our ecosystem to nurture it. We, of course, we always listen to brands and
to new different media investments all across the board. We work with influencers on the traffic side and of course in the branding side as well. for short partnerships and for long time partnerships as well. And in Latam, we do also offline media and brand ambassadors. So now one thing that we are adding like quite strong on our media board is sports. So we are dealing with a lot of
football players all around. are assigning new players this week on Mexico and Spain. So yeah, I mean, we've been strengthening our side of media assets to present new kind of ways to the brands. Nice. The transfer window is over, but you're still busy making a lot of signings, Luis. Exciting times ahead for sure. And yeah, Carlos, if you can introduce yourselves. Sure. Hello everyone. And thanks for joining.
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So I'm CEO of Tipster Chat. So Tipster Chat is an app that connects professional tipsters and sports bettors. So for sports bettors, is a place where they can find and follow tipsters and get access to their content, follow their tips. And ultimately, basically the goal is for them to win more bets thanks to these professional tipsters. And for tipsters, it is a tool that they use to
publish and sell tips and content and engage better engage with their audiences and monetize them. So basically, it's a sort of an only funds to, you know, for for tips that makes their lives easier and they can they can, you know, make a lot more money, you know, monetizing their audiences. So we are quite strong in Mexico and in Spain and Brazil. So Spain, would say Spain and Latam is, you know, our main focus geographically.
And influencers, well, of course, they are at the core of our business. So it's all about, you know, for us, influencers, because tipsters, they are the, you know, in our opinion, the influencers of the sports betting, you know, world. the way they, you know, create their communities, the way they engage with them, the way they, you know, acquire, you know, new, new followers, all the strategies they follow, they're mostly based on social media, especially on, you know, things, you know, places like Instagram.
So, you know, for us, you know, working with influencers and social media is, know, what we do on a daily basis. So pretty important. Nice. Certainly really important. And Alessandro, but certainly not least. Hello everyone. So I'm Alessandro Mavente, one of the co -founders of Super Afiliados, which is one of the oldest affiliate companies in Brazil and actually in Latin America as well.
And I co -founded other businesses such as a bet 7k and, and I have been focusing on defense as well. Then we have been exploring the segment for at least 10 years now in different aspects or different approaches. Now more and more going to the new verticals of a tick tock and Instagram and
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So, but always having this network of affiliates based pretty much on influencers or people that influence the experts, cetera, tipsters. And so, yeah, it is very important to have such a conversation in this moment, especially in Brazil, where we see things going in the wrong direction sometimes. And, you know, perhaps we could shed some light here to the audience.
Yeah, most certainly. And, you know, as you can tell, we've got a really decorated, panel cast of, cast of, yeah, figures from the industry. But Alessandro, I'm going to keep you in the hot seat with a little bit of a wild card question to kick us off. a few social medias were mentioned. A few regions were also mentioned as you guys went round in digit intros, Latin, Brazil, tick tock, Instagram. One thing that wasn't mentioned and maybe
by a conscious decision was Twitter or X in Brazil. We've obviously seen quite a big decision this week or last week recently to ban X in, in Brazil. Yeah. How is, what's your reaction to that, Alessandro? Like, how is that going to impact the way these new operators reach audiences? It is the worst kind of a decision that.
a very stupid judge decided to do something that's unbelievable. I was in America, just arrived from America, the land of free speech. And we come to see such a stupid situation and acts or the treat as I call it, because I'm old enough to say that it is very, it is very strong in Brazil and lots of influencers to
to a high level, they use that. And it's a shame to see, you know, the scenario that we are to face now. And banning websites, it was one of the least things that I was expecting. But, you know, let's see how he ends up because it's a lot of like diplomatic problem now generating between the countries, not only the company.
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And the so -called Alshund, what is a judge. have a meeting next week with one of the ministers of Brazil. This is top of my agenda because we are also facing blocks on operators and certain states requested just moving to blocking things. I know it's not the main subject here, but.
since you touched the topic, so a few weeks or a month ago or something like that, the state of Rio de Janeiro ordered that some websites, like 100 plus websites, should be blocked in their state, but the operators, couldn't, or the telecom companies, couldn't actually block just really blocking the whole country. So was a mess. So blocking things
In my view, it's completely outrageous. We shouldn't be seeing that kind of thing happening in Brazil. If it is a democracy, if it is. I'm not saying it is. But yes, then influencers are also affected and companies that are also spending a fortune on ads, et cetera. now it's also stopping everything, really.
I think Joe, I think we're going to see this happening more and more. so governments being more restrictive with these platforms, platforms being more restrictive with industries such as betting and gambling. Like, it's happening with Meta and how that impacts on WhatsApp, for example, or Instagram. Let's take Telegram. The founder was just arrested a few days ago. In many geographies, it happened in Spain a few months ago.
from time to time, some judges are blocking Telegram as well for different reasons. And I think what we're seeing a list from our end is that it makes more and more relevant platforms and apps like ours where we provide the influencers like a safe place to engage with their communities, everything sports betting related. So for example, in our case, tips is many tips that use Telegram.
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as the tool to communicate and share tips and engage overall with their audiences. And Telegram is always on the hotspot as well. and every time that someone blocks somewhere, Telegram, they all come to us and say, hey, can I now just start using tips to chat? So I think that's important that we can, as an industry, we can provide influencers also with other options and alternatives.
Because I don't see how this is going to change. In my opinion, this is going to happen more and more. And so we just need to create something that can be an alternative, I think. Yeah, it's not just a problem. Since you touched the bases on something extremely relevant, how do you plan to have an entity in Brazil, a representative office or something like that?
because that's how Twitter now is being blocked. And the influencers are going to be somehow regulated in Brazil as well. So if they spot that an influencer is saying something that shouldn't be said on like offering free bonuses, because the free bonus is going to be also not allowed, then they will have the authority to block whatever app or website you have.
unless you have someone here to represent your company and then pay whatever fines. And so it's, it's the ideal solution is not to block anyone. But how do you think you can tackle that in Brazil, at least? Yeah. mean, so for example, we started in Spain. In Spain is one of the more restrictive jurisdictions when it comes to, you know, betting. And so bonuses, you know, were banned for some time on now. And so
you know, pretty much there was nothing you can do on the marketing side with with sportsbooks. So no promotions. So not not at all. So basically, you know, they came to us, I mean, the sportsbooks, because we have different ways of, you know, engaged. So at the end of the day, so for example, one of the things we have is that, you know, we have tips us that, you know, they are publishing, you know, their their beds, they are sharing their beds, and they are saying, this, I'm placing this bet on this, you know, certain bookie. that's
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you know, from our view, that's the best way of promoting, you know, a bookie because basically you see someone who is very, you know, successful on, you know, making money with bets, saying, hey, this is the place where I, you know, place most of my bets. So it's like, you know, different angles that you can, you can follow when, you know, know, markets become more more restrictive. But I totally agree that, you know, it's also, it also makes it, you know, more complicated to, to operate in different markets. There's a thing about, you know,
when it comes also with sports books, there is this, you know, you know, sometimes, you know, situation where, you know, some of them are based on, you know, some jurisdictions which are more restrictive, they are not competitive with some of us which are on this, you know, overseas, like, so they don't have like, you know, many of the restrictions and many of the burdens that, you know, the other half of this creates this unfair,
you know, you know, competitive market that that we're going to see in other in other in other sectors as well. So do you think education the influencers to such an extent or meaning like, I don't know, trying to give them some sort of tutorial how to do in that some, you know, geolocations would be something that could be productive? I think so. And I think Brazil is a very good example of a market where
there is of education or training materials. I know that many tips is they have a lot of courses, like webinars. And so basically they create a lot of materials to better educate and better as well. So I think they are very open to trying to adjust how they behave to the new legal environment.
The problem I think is that as long as they have options that doesn't need to comply with legal requirements in a given market, things will be easier for them. So most of them, will choose it. It's what happens, for example, with Telegram compared to us. mean, we need to be compliant with in every market we operate. as I mentioned in Spain, we cannot mention or promote any sort of bonuses, et cetera.
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On Telegram, it's just a jungle, right? So they can do whatever they want. so that's, you know, that's, think that's that's the challenge that, know, that they can understand that, you know, making things a little bit, a little bit more complicated in the long run, it will be better for them. thing I would like to highlight here is that, I mean, we, know what market we are in. So,
those things are going to be more and more in the news and all around the board across time. I think influencers and not only influencers, but also brands, they need to be aware that people are aware of our world now in a mass basis. So you need to invest some of your time and efforts to dilute the risk.
of investing on only one channel. So for example, there are influencers that came to me this week and said, please help me. My source of income is out. Twitter is blocked here in Brazil. is blocked. We don't call it X here in Brazil. We still call it Twitter.
each blog, mean, people are coming to us and saying, help us, need to do other things to live because now our main source of income is out. have people who used to focus on Twitter, right? And now we have to focus on somewhere else. And this is a lesson that not only influences Neetulamber, also brands. So I see a lot of brands here in Brazil as well.
investing only one channel. like, for example, only organic on Instagram and so on. But you need to dilute the risk, of course. And you need to, of course, build your own structure as well. Sometimes that's hard, of course. But you need to be aware that every social that you're in, you're just renting a space. It's not yours. So you're just using that on that short period of time, or maybe could be a long period of time, but you're renting. So
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need to dilute the risk and invest across other channels as well. And Luis, if I can follow up there as well, you mentioned that you're new players in this week, new people in this week, when you're bringing them in, do you have some type of education for them? Do you let them know about the ecosystem they're entering? Is there some kind of onboarding process that, you know? Yeah. When I mentioned new players, would be
players and so for other brands in Latam for example. And one thing that I would like to mention since we are dealing with blocking and restrictions and everything, some things that we are putting on our contracts, so we have a lot of teams inside our team and something that we are putting on the contracts is if the player signs on a league for example that has restrictions and bans him to post,
or the contract can be terminated. So that's something that brands are also asking for us, of course, because of how things are going in the market. So for example, in Argentina, you can't hire soccer players in Argentina who currently are playing in Argentina league. So that's something that's important to be our contract. And we make that safe for our clients. But you need to be aware of regulations and bans and different kind of
dealing with things on different geos, right? Yeah, that's really important. It's interesting to hear the type of process that you have and it is definitely very important. Marina, I'll bring you in there. There's quite a lot to reflect on that we've already spoken about. Yeah, just your reflections on Brazil and also the process and ensuring that kind of new people coming in, new influencers coming in.
aware of the ecosystem they're entering and are educated about the kind of risks involved. Yeah. So when it comes to Brazil, I think we are entering a little bit on a gray area. So Brazil is right now a little bit confusing when it comes to promote different operators. So we have influencers that are not currently promoting gambling in a very responsible way, which
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it's kind of bad for all of us. So for the affiliates that are really careful with this and also to operators that are doing this job right. So this causes a little bit of confusion when it comes to to hire influencers. And right now we are really careful when it comes to hire influencers because we have to look at the content that was made before because we know all of them, mostly all of them
were promoted, they currently promoted some illegal casinos or shady ones. So basically right now we are really looking forward to show the influencers that those values aligned with the operators that we work with. We are really careful with training and briefing. So we provide training sessions and really detailed briefings to influencers to ensure they fully understand the brand.
the messaging, what is expected from them and what they can or cannot say. And we really try to maintain regular communication with them and try to make them feel like a true extension of our team to make sure that everything is running smoothly. When it comes to Twitter or X, it actually didn't affect us much.
I think it really affects the operators that are promoting on X and Twitter. But as an affiliate, we weren't promoting on X a lot in Brazil. So in Brazil, we use mostly Twitch, Instagram, and YouTube. Those are our main performance channels. We actually use more Twitch and Telegram in Nigeria, for example, in which we have many, many tipsters. And I kind of agree with what Carlos said before. So actually, we didn't.
In Nigeria, for example, it is our top market and they do not mention any bonus on their communication. So they only share their bed slips and then their beds on the website. And the people really engage and go to the website and sign up the Influencers promo code. Yeah. wow. that because, you know, when you're dealing with influencers, they can reach an audience in a kind of sincere way and the message really seems
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Like it comes from or not seems like, but does come from a genuine place and audiences can recognize that and it kind of resonates with them a little bit more. Yeah. think influencers, when it comes to advertising, they are more relatable to these new audiences than the traditional advertising. And when it comes to tipsters, mostly it's really organic advertising. So that's why we love tipsters so much because it doesn't seem forced. They are just showing their tips on their favorite websites.
And it really attracts a lot of these new audiences. I want to make a comment, Jo, because sometimes brands get a bit confused about a concept that that influencers and that are content creators. And there's a difference, a big difference in that. there are a lot of, for example, let's imagine ourselves, right? So we follow a lot of people in Instagram or
or Twitter or whatever social is for their content, not for, I mean, their opinions and how they think and, well, I mean, different aspects in terms of that. So there are some people that are being followed only by their content. So they make something cool or maybe some cool additions and some of that, but they don't really influence their audience. I mean, if they tell them to do something or if they recommend something, they don't,
It's not really relatable, you know? Brands need to keep aware of that because I'm seeing more and more brands looking only at numbers. mean, numbers are awesome, of course. They need to be part of the analysis, but you also need to work with people who are able to differentiate who are content creators and who are true influencers for their audience. Of course, that's not like science, you know? It's part art, part science.
You need to work and to understand this along the way, I mean, that's something that you need to do, this kind of analysis. And as an affiliate, we are really pressured by results because we are not the operator itself. We are an affiliate. So our main goal and our team's main goal is FTDs, first time depositors. So that's when it gets tricky because FTDs should be our number one priority, but I agree with Luis that
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Initially, on the first stage of the partnership, the most important KPI for us is really the high quality content that the influencer is delivering in not only the results, because I think that when it comes to results, signups and FTDS, we can collaborate to improve these results even if the initial ones are below expectations. So yeah, high quality content is really, really important, even for affiliates.
Totally agree. think that one of the great things about working with influencers, it could be also like a threat at some point, but that they generate content and good quality content, is more effective, at least is what we see, it is more effective as a tool to generate FTDs, for example, than all the advertising that we can do on the app. So we have, in our case, we have like banners and we have
We do the CRN campaigns and messages like promoting our partners, the operators, promoting their in the markets where it is allowed like bonuses and all of that. And it doesn't work as well as one tips just publishing as I said at beginning on that sports book or just saying, hey, you know what, I'm going to create this special group for the US Open. I'm going to publish all my premium tips there.
and I'm going to place all the bets on this operator. just make sure that you have your account. And by the way, if you are in Mexico, there is this bonus that you can use. And this is working a lot better. So I think that's the good opportunity about working with influencers. Of course, you need to make sure that these influencers are the right ones.
you know, creating good content. And, I think there's one, one question. don't know. Maybe we'll take questions later, but you know, like, you know, be careful that of course there might be some, you know, damage that they can cause, as well. Yeah. Before we come onto that, Alessandro, I'll give you a chance to kind of chime in there and, yeah, I used to defend that cause for many, years. And, on super affiliates, I still actually, do that. I try to,
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have a quality more than quantity, cetera, et cetera. But that for some reason, my business partner showed me that it could be a little bit different in a market, very immature, such as Brazil. And I take as an example, he used to be an affiliate. So this business partner used to be an affiliate and no one liked his traffic.
because his traffic was kind of like junk traffic. people, operators used to put caps and limits to his accounts. And overall he was paying off, but like he used to take so much time and he was not an expert or no traffic coming from expert quality, blah, blah, all this, excuse my French, but all this bullshit. then he decided to become an operator.
And now it's the number two website in Brazil. Wow. And, you know, he produces 500, 600 ,000 FTGs. And so I don't know. tend to see my point is I used to call, you know, even on the conference that we organize here, we always try to influence the references to, try to, you know, work.
this way don't do like junk traffic, et cetera, et cetera. But he's actually proving not only me, but industry and somehow wrong. And I don't know if that is because the market is such as very new and immature and, but that's my reality in Brazil.
And so the quality, yeah, it is nice, but a hundred FTGs over 650 or thousands, 650 ,000 FTGs make me a little bit skeptical about when I, you know, force this subject to my affiliates at superaffiliados or during the conferences, et cetera, because I don't know. It's, I doubt it's,
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the only way, you know, maybe, maybe we should just try to make these guys work in a better way. But right now it's working pretty well in Brazil. Thank you for listening to today's episode of iGaming Daily, supported by OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. A reminder, if you'd like to listen to the full episode of Influencers and the value of media marketing.
along with access to five additional panel sessions, make sure to register via the link below in the description and make sure to tune into tomorrow for more iGaming Daily.