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Psych Attack focuses on the diversity of the domain of psychology. Join us for a relaxed conversation with experts discussing the topics they are passionate about in psychological research and/or practice. The aim is to better understand the spectrum of human experience, the methods used in psychology, and the people attracted to working within it. The conversations will be of interest and accessible to novice and experienced psychology listeners alike.
Hosted by Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (jasminebmacdonald.com.au).
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (00:25):
Hey there, and welcome to this episode of Psych Attack. I'm Dr. Jasmine B. MacDonald. We are, uh, knocking on the door of 2025. I have been doing this podcast for four years now, and I thought maybe a nice way to round out the year could be to have a highlights episode of 2024. Over those four years of doing the show, the show has reached 84 different countries, which is insane considering that I really just do this to have an excuse to speak to interesting people and to learn stuff myself. So it's cool that, uh, other people are learning stuff along with me from the really, uh, impressive and passionate folks that I get to have a conversation with on psych attack. Of those 84 different countries, the majority of the audience comes from Australia, but close behind, uh, listeners from the US and in particular, shout out to folks based in Texas and California for consistently being a state that's represented in the downloads for each episode.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (01:31):
And after that, we have listeners who tune in regularly from the Philippines and from Singapore. That mix of audiences makes me, uh, really happy this year. I have spoken to, uh, four researchers, uh, slash practitioners from Australia. I also had the pleasure of catching up with a researcher from Finland and another who is originally Canadian, but is based in the us. We covered all kinds of stuff. We covered investigative interviewing for disclosures of maltreatment. We covered what sex therapy is, kink and paraphilias. We covered academic mental health. We covered adolescent mental health and the use of phenotypes. We covered human dog, uh, relationships, uh, and we also talked about self-advocacy and professional development and relationships. Big shout out to those of you who came on the show this year and shared your time and your expertise. It's highly appreciated. All right, the rest of the episode is going to be some of my favorite parts from each of these six episodes.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (02:43):
And if you hear something that you like the sound of and you haven't heard the whole episode, uh, you know where to find it. The first episode of the year was one with Associate Professor Lindsay Malloy. Lindsay does research in the area of developmental psychology and the law based out of Ontario Tech University. Lindsay shared ways to improve investigative interviewing with people who have experienced maltreatment. The cool thing about this conversation was it brought together a massive body of Lindsay's own research and other researchers in the field, which covered interviewing with children, adolescents, and older adults. So we were really able to discuss what was similar, what was different, some unique considerations when thinking about the context of the person you're speaking to and what stage of their life they're at. We spent a lot of time in this conversation talking about reasons why children might recant disclosures of maltreatment.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (03:41):
That's a really fascinating conversation, especially if you are a practitioner that works in an area adjacent to child protection. On the really nerdy research end, there was a study that Lindsay conducted that just had a really cool methodology to look at why children might disclose something and then later say that the thing they disclosed didn't happen. The design is really eloquent and interesting. The highlight from this episode that I wanna share and trust me across the episodes always hard to just choose one or two highlights. Um, but in this excerpt, Lindsay talks about challenges for young police officers who are trying to support older adults to disclose maltreatment and really highlights that need to think about what are the shared and different contexts and developmental experiences and expectations, uh, in the practice of supporting folks who have experienced maltreatment and building that alliance and trust. Here it is.
Associate Professor Lindsay Malloy (04:45):
One of the things I thought was really interesting was there's no such thing as like an older adult police officer, right? Right. Like they tend to retire pretty early, I think, you know, commonly retire, maybe some even in their forties, but in their fifties. So when you have an older adult who is trying to, or an officer who's trying to build rapport with let's say, you know, an 85-year-old, who is they suspect maybe being maltreated, the officers talked about that difficulty of trying to build rapport and trying to have like common ground and experiences mm-hmm . And they said they often would approach them like they might approach their parents or other older adults in their lives, but it might be really challenging and difficult for an older adult to disclose something that they feel ashamed or embarrassed about to like a 23-year-old , you know, who that is interviewing them. I mean, like, I'm not saying it has to be age matched or anything like that, but just...
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (05:45):
Episode 18 is called Sex Therapy Kink and Paraphilias. I caught up with Dr. Sarah Ashton to hear about her work in the area of sexual health and intimacy. We talked a lot about kink, we talked a lot about paraphilias, where these come from, as well as how to treat paraphilic disorder and to work with clients experiencing shame. That idea of shame and the difference between shame and guilt is really important across the board in psychology, not just when we're talking about in the context of sex therapy. Sarah is the director and founder of ships, which is Sexual Health and Intimacy Psychological Services, which is a progressive psychology organization in Melbourne, and they provide sex, intimacy and mental health treatment and training. The highlight of this episode for me that I wanna share today is Sarah talking about why it's important for psychologists and therapists in general to be able to talk about sex with clients.
Dr Sarah Ashton (06:45):
On the whole, what I've discovered when I've been training and working with practitioners is that a lot of the time, the reason why practitioners don't talk about sex or they don't, um, broach these topics is because they live in as part of the broader social system that, you know, we all live, um, within, which is one that shames and stigmatizes sex and sexuality for a lot of people, you know, they might not have grown up talking about sex. And so, um, not only do they not raise this within their, all the relationships in their life, maybe not even their intimate relationships, they then don't feel like they can raise it within their, the therapeutic context either. Then it becomes more about perpetuation of that, that shame and stigma, rather than perhaps acting in alignment with your, you know, skills and expertise. So I, I suppose that's why I'm passionate about all practitioners learning how to have these discussions because even if you don't con continue treating someone for a particular sexual issue, people are a system.
Dr Sarah Ashton (07:46):
You know, everything is interconnected and all of the sexual issues relate to people's psychology and they relate to and are influenced by mental health, um, and mental health issues. So no, we need to understand that as, as practitioners so we can, um, adequately formulate the the presenting issue we're working with, but also . We need to make sure that we are not further perpetuating, uh, shame and stigma around sexual issues. Um, and that we create the space where people can disclose that so that they're not, yeah, they're not suffering with something unnecessarily for years of, of, of their life, um, and they're not having, um, their internalized shame reinforced.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (08:29):
Episode 19 was all about academic mental health. I spoke with Dr. Marissa Edwards from the school of Business at the University of Queensland. We discussed her journey advocating for better mental health and lessons that she's learned along the way. We talked about what academic mental health advocacy is and why it's important, and we shared our own personal challenges working in academia. This is a topic that I think is really important and that I relate to personally. I did my PhD thinking that I would stay in academia and after years of teaching and research in a couple of different universities, really found that the fit wasn't right for me and that personnel within the university system tend not to be valued the way that they should be. So I have since moved on and found myself a full-time research job outside of the university system. Marissa has stayed within the system and progressed throughout her career and is doing important work to continue this conversation for the benefit of her academic colleagues.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (09:33):
In this episode, we also talk about the importance of sharing success as well as failures, and we finish up with ways to safeguard your time and wellbeing as an academic. The excerpt I've decided to share with you comes out of a discussion we were having relating to the difference between the individual characteristics of an academic that might make the work challenging for them and the broader systemic issues when it comes to academic mental health. And striking a balance between that and the need for, uh, managers to be able to be honest and supportive with the systemic issues, um, that might be impacting their staff.
Dr Marissa Edwards (10:10):
When people's concerns are dismissed, turnover happens. Quitting people decide that they're gonna leave. And managers need, I guess, to, to recognize that, that they're gonna be losing, you know, people who are highly dedicated, really committed high performers. Because if managers are not gonna acknowledge at least your emotional experience and acknowledge your distress and recognize that it's not you, it's the system. But what can I do to support you? Is it any wonder why people do leave academia?
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (10:42):
In episode 20, I had the pleasure of catching up with Dr. Jade McEwen and the topic was self-advocacy and professional relationships. Jade shared about her professional and personal experiences of self-care, the benefits of being unapologetically self-promoting and working out how to be heard in order to get the support that you need. Jade is the assistant director of research at the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission for folks outside of Australia. The NDIS is the National Disability Insurance Scheme, an Australian government scheme that funds reasonable and necessary supports associated with significant and permanent disability for people under 65 years old. Throughout the episode, we spoke about the importance of not letting a lack of confidence get in your way of asking for the things that you want or that you need. We spoke about the importance of relationships in research and in practice emphasizing that cool stuff is created by people together. And the excerpt that I wanna share with you is Jade talking about being on the other end of that continuum now of having been brave in the past to ask for what she needs to now being in a position where she can lift up other people.
Dr Jade McEwen (11:58):
I guess one of the things that helps me is not only the fact that people have believed in me and lifted me up and given me opportunity and the wonderful life that I've now been afforded, which I'll continue to work hard to keep. 'cause that's gratitude is lifting other people up. And I think it becomes a bit of an addiction because when you have achieved whatever it is that you desire, and for me just being paid to think and talk to wonderful people and contribute to great projects, I'm so blessed. You know what I do now and the roles I've performed make my heart sing could not be happier, but you know, we're obligated to help others then. And you feel a different kind of confidence in a happiness when you are able to do that for somebody else. And then you sort of see yourself through their eyes, you know, the kind of like I would've been with everybody who's hyped me, you know, wide-eyed and oh wow, thank you. And you know, they tell you how they see you and then all of a sudden you think, oh wow, , that's amazing. Could I be that person? Okay, I'll take it. So I think it's those two things. You know, you kind of, with every, yes, you grow a bit, but then with every hand that you hold out and help lift others up with in any capacity afforded to you, no matter how small you become more confident in your abilities and perceptions of you.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (13:22):
If you know anything about me, you know I love animals and in particular dogs. This year I was fortunate to speak to Dr Miiamaaria Kujala. Miiamaaria is based in Finland, but does research comparing cultural differences in dog ownership between countries like Finland and Australia. And so episode 21 was called Factors that affect human dog relationships. I spoke to Miiamaaria about dog communication, how dogs understand humans and the factors that affect the interaction between the two species, uh, such as culture, human personality, and dog behavior. We covered Miiamaaria's journey from philosophy to neuroscience and eventually to studying both ends of the leash from a research methods perspective. We talked about how we can measure dog cognition and behavior, including things like the impossible task experiment as a psychology researcher and a proud fur parent. I really love that experiment. The excerpt that I wanna share with you is from a part of the conversation where we were talking about the emotional closeness between the human and doggo and the perceived costs of dog ownership and how those vary amongst different personality types.
Dr Miiamaaria Kujala (14:37):
So in Finland, maybe the shared activities you do with your dog are not necessarily taking the dog for car rides or buying them treats or presents, but more like going for a walk at the woods, sort of things. Mm-hmm. And we have a lot of dog related hobbies, like for example, agility or OB training dog clubs. They are very popular. So the ways are just different. Mm-hmm. But for these factors that did fit into the human dog owner population, the emotional closeness and the perceived costs of the ownership for those, we could find some like predictive personality factors or temperament factors from the owners. So for example, the dog owners who are very neurotic, they have very high like negative effectivity, meaning that they're easily frightened. They tend to worry about things, what might go wrong, they might easily feel things threatening. Mm-hmm . This type of reaction. So often they had the higher perceived costs of the dog ownership. So they felt like the dog is restricting my life. But they also had very high emotional closeness with the dog. So this has been also studied in some other studies, they formed strong bones, so tend to form strong bones with the dog, like strong emotional attachment to the dog. Mm. And that is perhaps because the dog can give like, um, this sort of safety and this sort of emotional support that you need
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (16:18):
Tap into those kind of attachment systems for soothing and stuff. Yeah,
Dr Miiamaaria Kujala (16:22):
Exactly. Yeah.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (16:24):
If you are also an animal, a dog lover, you might wanna go back to episode 13, which is all about the role of animals in mental health practice. The last episode of the year was episode 22. In this episode I caught out with Dr. Taylor A. Braund From the Black Dog Institute. Taylor does research into digital phenotyping in particular, we discussed the link between mental health symptoms and things like keystroke metadata from smartphones. We covered a lot of ground in this episode for me, in terms of research methodology. It was really fascinating to think about such massive sets of data and being able to see those patterns within the metadata from smartphones for adolescents and think about how could this be used to predict mental health disorders and potentially in the future to provide just in time support for young people. Taylor hung in there with me while I asked a whole range of really basic questions and trying to understand phenotyping and uh, the technology and analysis aspects behind this work. But the work is also really, uh, underpinned by important foundational, practical issues. This final excerpt that I wanna share with you is Taylor talking about the key takeaway finding from a recent phenotyping study.
Dr Taylor A. Braund (17:44):
Basically what we found is that overall higher mental health symptoms were very weakly associated with faster typing speed. So more depressed, faster typing speed, but less typing frequency so they're typing less. This is kind of counter intuitive to what you would expect considering most people have found previously and would expect that more depression or higher levels of depression would lead to psychomotor impairment, which would lead to slower typing speed. Mm. So I think to a really interesting finding in terms of what is it that's unique about the data collected that we have and how that differs from other studies that are out there.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (18:35):
That is a little taster plate of the conversations I got to have on psych attack in 2024. It was an absolute delight and privilege. Thank you again to all of those guests. These excerpts actually don't do justice to the full conversations. Psych attack is a long format interview podcast. The guests and myself take time away from the other work that we are doing to have really meaningful, thoughtful conversations. That means that being a frequent listener is a time commitment on your behalf. I wanna really thank everybody who has tuned in in 2024. I wanna thank folks who have reached out to let me know, uh, that they enjoy the show and what it is that you enjoy about it. That makes me very happy. I would like to also do a shout out to Morgan McRae. Morgan came on board as the audio editor in the last 12 to probably 18 months.
Dr Jasmine B. MacDonald (19:36):
I've had a lot of backlog recordings that with the various other things that I do and, you know, full-time research job and other side research and writing projects that I don't have the time to do as much editing as I would like to. So thank you Morgan for making most of the episodes in 2024 A reality. That's all that I have for you today. Sending you all the very best. I hope you have a good holiday season. I'm really looking forward to seeing you again in 2025. And I'm a planner, so trust that I already have, uh, lots of ideas and early conversations underway with people about awesome episodes for 2025. Thanks.