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The Wellness Creator Podcast is your go-to source for expert insights and actionable tips in the evolving world of health, wellness, and spiritual-based business. Join us as we explore proven online growth strategies, chat about current trends, and interview fellow wellness creators who’ve managed to turn passion into profit by helping people live better, healthier lives.
Welcome to the Wellness Creator Podcast, where we delve into the business side of online wellness, sharing stories, strategies, and inspiration from people like you who are building meaningful income streams on the Internet. If you're in the business of helping people to live healthier, happier lives, this podcast is for you. Be sure to subscribe to the show to get notified each time we release a new episode.
Sandy:Hey, everyone. It's Sandy popping in to set up the interview that you're about to listen to. Once again, we're sharing a conversation from another podcast, The Pilates Exchange. The host, Hannah Teutscher, who is a longtime marvelous user and one of our coaching clients for many years, she interviews Jenny Barcelos, our CEO about technology for her series on how technology and AI intersect with movement. We know that technology dominates our lives, and this episode will have you pausing and thinking about the tech that you use.
Sandy:So if you're hesitating to start your movement business online, if you're maybe frustrated with online, if you wish there was more artistry and beauty with technology, I think you'll find this episode helpful. It's really a rethink about technology, what technology is, and what it isn't. Alright. Enjoy the convo with Jenny and Hannah.
Hannah:Welcome. Stick around if you wanna learn about the art and philosophy of beautiful movement mixed with evidence based exercise science. We will be having tough and inspiring conversations with other coaches, experts, artists, and athletes. Our goal is to challenge myths, explore concepts, and engage in healthy debate as we dive deep with intrigue and curiosity. I'm your host, Hannah Deutscher.
Hannah:I've been teaching dance, Pilates, and yoga for over 2 decades, and what I've learned is that movement can be the joy that integrates us all together. When we can trust and express ourselves through our bodies, we are unlimited in our ability to change ourselves and our communities for the better. We, as movement teachers and coaches, have the power to help people experience this war themselves. Okay, everyone. Let's dive in.
Hannah:Exchanging ideas and changing people's lives one session at a time. This is the Pilates Exchange. I'm thrilled to introduce you to Jenny Barcelos. Jenny is an attorney, a parent, and an artist. She's the cofounder of the Marvelous Software Platform, the NSHE Coaching Company, and the Climate Justice Project 3 Degrees Warmer.
Hannah:Prior to her foray into entrepreneurship, Jennifer graduated pi beta kappa from UC Berkeley, worked on multiple presidential campaigns, served as a Gates Public Service Law Scholar, received a graduate degree in environmental science from Yale. Jenny spends her time over landing with her family throughout the American Southwest. I'm so lucky to get to introduce you to a role model of mine. I'm thrilled to be able to have this conversation with her. Alright, my Pilates people.
Hannah:I am thrilled to be able to introduce the Pilates exchange to one of my favorite people. I'm such a fangirl. Jenny Barcelos. I just told you a little bit about her bio, but I just I'm thrilled to be able to have this conversation with her because I think she's going to have a lot of valuable insights about, you know, rounding off this series that we've doing we've been doing about technology, AI, like, all the stuff, and does it belong in a space of movement, and what can we learn from that and all that. So can we start off, Jenny, like, just welcome.
Hannah:Thank you for your time.
Jeni:Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be on your show.
Hannah:I've read through your bio often. And it seems like there's a big leap to go from, like, all the environmental stuff that you've done into technology. Is that a leap? Or or how did you do that?
Jeni:Yeah. I think it definitely is a leap, but I'll kind of explain how that thinking came about. So, yeah, I'm a an environmental lawyer by trade. I was professor at a law school running a multidisciplinary clinical program before I did this work. And, really, my interest in technology came from the sheer fact that the people who were early employees and investors in a lot of the big tech companies in the US on the West Coast of Seattle and Silicon Valley were the same people that I was fundraising from for my work.
Jeni:And it dawned on me at some point that, like, there was power in technology. Like, that was enabling all of my life's work. And I was really around a lot of it because I went to law school and then I was teaching at the University of Washington. So I was around a lot of tech. So, like, early Amazon, early Microsoft people.
Jeni:That's just sort of, like, osmosis, I guess, sort of be be around all of that. And I was really interested in kind of a lot of some of the groundbreaking work both around kind of environmental things and non environmental things that were happening. So that piqued my interest in tech and in the power of tech. And then when I had my daughter who is now 12, and I was kind of on maternity leave, like an extended break and then maybe potentially a career shift, I decided kind of in that space to start a tech company because that had to be easier than dealing with climate change and the law. In my mind, that would be much easier to solve.
Jeni:I was around all these people who'd done things like invented hybrid engines and built Amazon. And I was like, oh, how hard can this be? Was it harder than you expected? Harder in different ways. Like, easier in some ways and harder in some ways.
Jeni:And so maybe for your audience too, I'll just share, like, the wellness side of this too for me, which I think is really important. I didn't just wanna build something in tech. I really wanted to build something in the wellness industry. I had gone through yoga teacher training at the tail end of law school sort of like right after I graduated. And my mom, my final year of school, had died of cancer.
Jeni:And I had been invited to all these kind of, like, free yoga spaces when she was sick, which were really meaningful to me. And my job and my legal life was hard. And the wellness work I was doing was kind of like my saving grace. I feel like it saved my sanity, and I loved being around the people that were doing that work. So I knew that if I ever transitioned or took on any kind of other career, I really wanted it to be in the wellness space because I just found it delightful compared to the other work that I was doing in the world.
Hannah:Well, that's a really, really inspiring story to to take all of what you've been through and then because I know I know this side of the technology, your technology that you created from an entirely different standpoint because I've been living within this space that you've created for a little over 4 years now, that you have taken a what I would say is a very scary place of technology wise and made it so accessible and empowering as a woman to be on this side, especially for, you know, for movement for us wellness creators and stuff. So I just wanna say, like, Chapo, like, that you took that seed of an idea and really created that for us to be in there.
Jeni:Thank thank you, Hannah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like when I started our platform, which used to be called Namasteam and now is called Marvelous, there was nothing really in the space. There were a few studios around the world that had kind of felt their own streaming mechanisms for really streaming recorded classes, and it was really interesting to see how those businesses came about and evolved. I had started to pick up on the inkling that this was a direction a lot of other at least at that point, brick and mortar operations wanted to go in, and it was people felt very disempowered because they did not they were not married to major technologists.
Jeni:They didn't have access to venture capital to, like, build out these systems on their own. And so I saw, like, an opportunity there to really level the playing field and bring technology potentially into spaces where it wasn't accessible at the time. That was, like, really meaningful and fun for me to kind of build this entire new kind of business model or to bring technology into kind of the wellness studio space. Now it's really common, obviously, and there are lots of other companies and brands that do this. But to me, the joy was playing that small role at least in kind of getting it going in the industry and making it accessible.
Jeni:Over the last
Hannah:few episodes, I've been talking a lot about we have to stay curious and be part of the conversation. And although, like, at this point, like, technology is rapidly advancing, and there's, like, so many things to Yeah. To stay on top of it. But if we go at it with this mind of, like, okay, let's just see what's out there. And you know, like, on from your platform, you know, you're leveling that playing field for so many of us that it was just too big and scary.
Hannah:Like, how are you going to piece all these things together and make something out of it that would be meaningful for us as the wellness creator, as the teacher, as the Pilates teacher, that we can help our students in the way that we want to. Been really interesting.
Jeni:You know, I think for me, one of the best frames to have around this is, like, technology is just one tool in your toolbox. So, obviously, all your trainings and all of, like, the philosophical work that you bring to your movement based work, all of that matters too. Like, technology is just a series of other tools. And I like to say use what works for you and, you know, just set aside what isn't working and maybe at some point it works for you, maybe at some point it never does. Like, the point of all of this is to make it more accessible for your students, to make it easier for them, to make them practice more than they otherwise would be able to practice and then to make your work obviously available to people who don't live in close proximity to you geographically, whether they're people that you met on a retreat or at a conference or a former student or client who's moved away.
Jeni:I think that that's like look for the magic, like, the opportunities to bring that magic because it really is magic that you can broadcast your class 15,000 miles away, and it's only, like, parts of a second of a delay. I mean, these are things that did not exist 10 years ago. Right? So, like, I would think that we also need to acknowledge the amazing magical properties of all of this.
Hannah:Abs absolutely. Like, I I it is such a great thing to be able to do. It's it's really incredible to be able to connect with people all over the world. And then also, you know, it's part of the sadness. Sometimes as a teacher is always, like, you have these these great connections to students and then they move away.
Hannah:And then, you know, you lose these people, but not anymore. Like, I've kept in touch with so many more people. They know that they can, I don't know, watch an on demand workout or they can, you know, livestream a class from us at any point? That's just it is such a great way to continue that learning environment, more the connection. It's more than that.
Hannah:It's a connection.
Jeni:Yeah. I think it's worth really honing in on that too because I think about it in the early days of building my company. Because of my husband's job, I relocated across the United States for a period of time for, like, two and a half years. And I was very much distraught by having to leave a couple of my teachers. And like I said, I had gone through yoga teacher training.
Jeni:I never really intended to be a professional teacher, but I just cared so much about the practice. It was such a huge part of my life. It was devastating actually to that was one of the hardest parts about moving. It was easier to talk to friends and interact with other people. But my teacher, I basically lost the connection to my practice with her, my main teacher.
Jeni:And I tried, like, every studio in the Winston Salem, North Carolina area. Like, I tried, like, every class, and some were fine and great. But nothing for me in that moment of time in my life made up for the difference of, like, losing my ability to practice with my teacher. And so that was also kind of lighting a fire under me while I was doing this. I knew that there's something magical that happens between teacher and student that, you know, is hard to recreate or or maybe even impossible.
Jeni:And so how can we kindle those kinds of relationships? And just even I don't back then, people weren't even really making videos on Instagram. Instagram was still pretty much a static photo platform. Like, it's not like having a YouTube channel was popular or common. So I really had no way of connecting with the teachers around the world who I wanted to work with.
Jeni:So this is also selfishly kind of for me. I was like, I'm gonna to benefit from having access to what I want access to. And if I want it, certainly other people want this same ability as well.
Hannah:I totally relate to that. When I left Montreal, because of dancing, and I left my teacher Darby, like it was such a hole in my heart. If I just Yeah. Like it was my I've, you know, traveled all over the world with dancing, but there was nothing that came close to that relationship that I had with him. Then years later, then he started to do, you know, pop up on more places and have a couple podcasts and, you know, as a guest and then different social media, begrudgingly on his end, but still, it was just like, Oh, God, you know, that connection then was back again.
Hannah:Yeah. So there's something irreplaceable. And once you find your teacher, it's really quite good.
Jeni:Yeah.
Hannah:Jenny, what do you think about sort of I hear some chatter within the teachers that I mentor about the online space being so saturated. That's a word that I hear all the time. What do you think about that bird's eye view?
Jeni:Yeah. So, I mean, I think that there is a nugget of truth to that, and then there's also a lot of mis misplaced anxiety with that kind of line of thinking. People have been saying that in my presence for 12 years now. Like, when I first built our platform, there were 2 really big streaming platforms that were owned by either a single studio or in in another case, like a very large business. We probably all know which one that is.
Jeni:And they're like, oh, well, you know, anyone can take a class with x y z famous instructor on x platform. Why would anyone take my classes? So I've just been hearing this for a long time, and it's I know it not to be true because I have the data and the analytics and the platform to show that it's not true. I think it's just a mindset issue, to be honest. I do think that early on, it was much easier to sort of be more demure, like, kind of hold back and just be one of the only instructors of a certain discipline and get students because it was not as common to find, say, a Pilates teacher online.
Jeni:So you if you were a Pilates teacher, you're probably doing okay 10 years ago or 9 years ago, even without having a strong personal brand like Google would show you to people searching for online Pilates classes. But now that's not the case. Like, now your personal brand and identity matters. Your marketing matters. But as long as that's something you're willing to take seriously and invest in, I think you're fine.
Jeni:And I think that that's con going to continue to be the case forever. I mean, the the interesting thing and I don't know what your AI conversations have been like, but the interesting thing that's happening on the Internet is that it's getting a lot harder to kind of put out common, kind of mediocre content and get attention because the robots will always win in those situations because they can just produce endless content and you, as a human, can't. But they also can't recreate the kind of magic personalized brand based content that you can. So, like, I think it's just changing a little bit. Like, you have to be maybe a little louder and a little more specific in how you show up on the Internet in order to help students find you, like, make sure you're the right fit for them.
Jeni:But beyond that, I don't think that saturation is really the valid concern. I think it's the question that these t that these instructors should ask themselves is, like, how can I stand out and be unique, and how can I serve a particular group of people better than anyone else can?
Hannah:I a 100 100% agree with you because I, you know, part of what my work, all of these things that Christian and I create together with Train the Trainers and all their teaching programs and stuff is really about finding helping hone in on a teacher's authentic way of teaching because I think that's that's the magic of it. If someone's out there just creating, let's say, mimicking the things that they think are going to go viral, then we've missed the point of it. There's no Yeah. There's no real connection there. And if we're talking about the essence of what makes this space amazing is that connection.
Hannah:And so how do we get our most authentic selves out there in whatever the advertising, you know, our personal brands or whatever so that we call in those students that want our teachings, not the, mediocre Yeah. AI version of us.
Jeni:Yeah. If you think about it, there's people that are just going to go on YouTube and take they're gonna search Pilates for lower back or whatever search terms, and they're gonna take whatever shows up. And those are not obviously gonna be your people. Right? So you're looking for people that are looking for you.
Jeni:And I don't know. I mean, maybe I just say this because I feel this way too, and I need to comfort myself. But I do think that this kind of forces us to be creative. And if you are, you know, a teacher in a movement based practice or you're a business owner or a shop owner or something like that, like, you're a creative person. There's, like, a massive amount of creativity and individualism within you, and it kind of forces you to dig into that a little bit.
Jeni:Like, you cannot be a copycat of something else, like you're saying, that's trending. I kinda think that that's its own gift because, like, you're tapping into this essential part of you that's that's also very rewarding for you as the professional to do that. Right? Like, you want to show up that way. So if you can kinda get away without doing it, like, you're you're maybe losing something in that process.
Hannah:That's a really interesting view on that. That makes sense. It really makes sense. When I started teaching, I felt underprepared and overwhelmed. I needed to learn how to plan my training so that it made sense, but I wasn't sure what was working and what wasn't.
Hannah:So many teacher training programs leave out the actual art and business of teaching. This is why we created Train the Trainers. Train the Trainers is designed to give you the tools you need to create a powerful learning environment for your students. Gain access to the vault of our collected knowledge where you can learn everything we have to teach you, whether you are a freelance teacher or a studio owner. Get constructive feedback on your teaching with actionable tools you can apply immediately.
Hannah:We can't wait to be part of your teaching journey and to help you grow in your business. Welcome to train the trainers. What do you think about I mean, obviously, COVID happened. Like, that you were in the space before and then COVID and then now. And now we've had a few years to go past it.
Hannah:Do you feel this space is still worth being?
Jeni:Oh, yeah. I mean, I think it's maybe not realistic to expect things to go as quickly as they did in 2020 or 2021 because there was just, like, a massive social push towards everyone doing everything on the Internet all of a sudden. And the way that I like to talk about what COVID did to our industry is that it just kind of sped things up by a decade. So we were headed this way anyway. I started this work in December of 2013, and so I've seen the trajectory of it.
Jeni:I mean, we knew this was coming a long time ago. And so I don't think that that like, there's no going back. There's maybe, like, we sped up, and so now things are not moving as quickly as they were, like I said, right at the beginning of the pandemic, but they're still headed in that direction. The economy will never go back to what it was before. It was always headed this way.
Jeni:So, yeah, absolutely. Like, if you wanna do this as your career, if you wanna have a business as a teacher or as an instructor, this is pretty important to figure out how to do this well and to be comfortable. To me, I think that identity of of having an online business because you are an entrepreneur. If you're teaching Pilates classes online, like, you have to start to think about yourself as being a business owner in addition to being a teacher or an instructor. Like, that's another part of your career identity.
Jeni:And then, like, just starting to get comfortable with learning how the Internet works and changes and being good with adapting to those changes, which will always be happening. Right. Right.
Hannah:And I think there's a lot of creativity in this online space that I I think that it's not so dry as I think some people are saying is, like, okay, well, you could stream classes or there's your on demand version. There's a whole heck of a lot more that goes into it, like different ways of connecting with your students online from, you know, private, like in your in the case of Hey, Marvelous with private messaging that's built into the platform? Or how are we using audio files and PDF files? Like, how are we helping our students progress? Whether you have just an online business or in our case, we have a a hybrid business where we have our in studio here in Nuremberg, Germany, and then this big online base as well.
Hannah:And how do we intertwine the both of those so that everyone is getting the best out of us? You know, and I think so, like, there for us, we only see like, okay, like, it's so exciting. Like, how how can we make this connection to our students even more vivid using the online space accessible? Yeah.
Jeni:Yeah. And I think that another really important thing to to think about and point out is there's also generationally like, you're going to start serving Gen z and Gen a, you know, if you haven't already as a teacher and as a business owner. And, like, this is their home turf. Like, this is their primary way of operating in the world. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, we don't have to judge that right now.
Jeni:This is how they interact with the world. And so I think that you have this great opportunity to reach kind of the younger generations of people out in the world and to start to see how they're interacting in order to serve them. Like, that's so inspiring and creative. Like, the way young people use the Internet is very different than the way an elder millennial or, you know, gen x would use it. Like, so I mean, you just sort of I think just be open to, like, watching our culture shift and playing, you know, the role in it that you're comfortable with within your career.
Hannah:Absolutely. I think that's empowering, especially in, like, in our I could say in the Pilates space, and I would say probably true for the yoga space as well, it's a women dominated field. And let's say, I don't know if it's historical or but just like this this stereotype of women not being very good in the tech side of things. And so I think when we start showing up to the conversation and just being curious about, like, well, how could I make this work for my business? How can, you know, I serve my my younger clients better?
Hannah:I think that's where the empowerment comes, and I think that's where we as women start to level this field as well. Because in the online space, we have, you know, depending on how we how we do it, but we have then no cap in the amount of money that we could earn in an idealistic way. You know? Whereas in our small little studio space in, say, Nuremberg, Germany, there's a there's an amount that I can earn, and then that's it. Yeah.
Hannah:But it's unlimited the other way. So I think that's really powerful place to be in when you look at it like that as well.
Jeni:Yeah. Yeah. I love that, Hannah. And, I mean, that's been a primary motivating force for me since the very beginning as well. I remember one of my first clients on the platform ran a small studio in the Upper West Side in New York City and, like, literally couldn't fit 10 people in the building.
Jeni:Like and that's it. Like and you've got that rent, and you've got like, you can only teach so many classes a day, and then that's it. And the only way to expand is to start in a second studio and a 3rd and a 4th. And I've talked to so many I mean, I've talked to all the sizes of wellness businesses and gyms kind of that exist in the world. And, like, there's something that happens when you have 7 locations.
Jeni:Like, you have a very different business. Like and if you are, say, a woman, like and you have other interests or maybe you have children, like, you have a family you're responsible for, like, things start, you know, getting complicated fast and you're that's a different operation. You stop being able to teach very much yourself. You have incredible management responsibilities with 100 of of staff members. And, like, I I think that the beauty of this kind of online Internet based wellness business is that you can scale without the additional most of the additional costs and certainly without the kinds of responsibilities that come with scaling these businesses, you know, in the brick and mortar world.
Jeni:And I I know personally the both of those things are very motivating for me. Like, I don't want 200 employees ever for any reason in my life, and I think most of us don't. Like, that's a that's a an incredibly heavy thing to carry. And and I'm so glad some people want that. I've never wanted that in my life, and that's why I gravitate towards this online stuff.
Jeni:And then the idea of being able to earn without having to assume additional risk of leaseholds and small business association loans and and, like, putting personal lines of credit, you know, out there. Like, I just think it's kind of like we're born in this moment where we've all won the lottery. Like, we all kind of have these opportunities that never existed for anyone before. And maybe something will change and and regulations are already starting to shift. And I don't think it's gonna be this kind of golden forever.
Jeni:So I think it's important to note that like this is kind of a once in a generation opportunity to take advantage of these particular circumstances.
Hannah:Wise words. Wise wise. What do you think from your point? I have my feelings of, like, what are the advantages of of online space, you know, like connecting there. What do you think are your biggest advantages or what your platform offers?
Jeni:Well, I think because we were the first in the industry, like, we've built it. We've kind of cocreated it with the professionals in the industry who are at the forefront of of what it means to teach online. I mean, just, like, no modesty here at all. Everything else is pretty much some kind of it's either a copycat of us or a copycat of a copycat of us. So, I mean, there's advantages, I'm sure, to every kind of platform, but ours is, like, we're always in constant conversation with our customer base and our student base.
Jeni:Like, we are building the thing that is needed in the world. And so that's, I think, the biggest difference. And, you know, we're not run by, like, a team that's been brought in by a private equity group, which is what a lot of our competitors are run by now. So they're really focused on kind of minimizing costs and, obviously, maximizing growth, and that's not always to the benefit of the instructors on the platform or and certainly not always to the students. And so, you know, there's just things that people don't think about, like data, privacy, security that we're just hyper aware of because we're kind of in it for the long game, and we carry that responsibility and take it seriously.
Jeni:So we you're building something that matters to you. It's different than doing it in a transactional way where it's just, like, meant to, like, I'm gonna get this one thing out of it, and then I'm tossing it aside. And because we were built and developed for this industry in particular, we obviously have features that other kind of just like online teaching platforms don't have, like contracts and waivers and, you know, just the way that we've structured the way products work and bundles work and class cards. Like, we're mimicking to the best of our ability, the way the offline wellness world works, but in an online context. I also think that the other big thing is that Sandy and I so my cofounder Sandy and I are not computer programmers.
Jeni:We're not software engineers by trade. And so we are adamant that everything is designed in a way that it's, like, straightforward and simple for people who don't come at it from the back end of the code. So if something is confusing, to me, it doesn't get released. So but I think that's actually kind of a big deal.
Hannah:That that is something that I'm, like, I'm in love with the platform anyways. But something that I so appreciate is that, you know, I've been through a lot of platforms, been through a lot of platforms. There's an ease, a simplicity, and a beauty in the way that the platform works. That with other platforms, I spend many, way too many tears trying to figure out how the logic is between, you know, behind the scenes to get the thing to work. It just that doesn't make sense, and there's never been a time where it hasn't been like, okay, just go over here, press this button, and do that, You know?
Hannah:And even if there was, there's always a human on the other side that responds and says, okay. Oh, I see that. Okay. Let's make that better. Or here's this thing that actually, you know, like, there's a way there's a person that's going to help, not an automated bot that's behind there.
Hannah:Yeah. Which is
Jeni:Yeah. Is huge.
Hannah:And I think that, you know, from us, you know, so from the the user point of view, is that when I'm able to go in there and have Hannah, the non stressed out version of me creating my best stuff on a platform, then it automatically that ease goes out towards my clients as well because I get to put my best face forward because there's a lot of, you know, for for anyone that's on there that hasn't checked out the platform yet, you are going to do that right after this, you listen to this podcast. But there's also this beautiful way that the creator, the studio owner can brand it to make it it feels like me. It feels like Chris and I when you interact with that platform. So I love love love love all of that. And I think that's the connection also that is unlike any other platform.
Jeni:Yeah. Thank you. That means the world to me that you feel that way, Hannah. And I would just say, like, the other the reason that it's like that too is because Sandy and I teach on the platform and have, you know, sin not since the very beginning because what we did wasn't relevant to what the platform did early on. We've also, like it's called in the text based dogfooding, the product.
Jeni:Like, we use it. I use it as much as anyone else uses it. Like, I'm in there using it with our customers too. Right? So I think that there's this sense of, like, I wanna feel proud of that, and I wanna love it, and I wanna love my own site and make it look like me and my personal brand as as much as you do.
Jeni:And so I think that that's, again, kind of like that's how everything should be though. Like, I think that's how things should be made. I think that just because something's written with code doesn't mean that artistry can't be involved. I mean, my favorite I have, like, a small collection of favorite tools that I use, you know, outside of the scope of wellness for my of favorite tools that I use, you know, outside of the scope of wellness for my
Hannah:like, just different software
Jeni:tools I use.
Hannah:And I just take such care
Jeni:and attention in picking things that make me feel delighted when I'm using them or have little Easter eggs and surprises for me and are easy and make my life better. Just like I take care and attention when I pick out a journal or planner to use in my life or pick out the mugs that I wanna drink my coffee and my tea out of, Like, the software that I use, I have the same relationship to technology that I do to anything else that I use in my life. So I'm sure that is I hope that's reflected in our product, but I just I think that's something that we can all do, like, having that kind of digital hygiene or that care and attention that you would, you know, for anything else, like your living space or your I don't know. Just the lamp that you turn on. I like I love things to be beautiful and easy and to feel like they belong.
Jeni:And so that's also how I want my technology to be.
Hannah:It absolutely comes across. And then another another thing, well, that I think is is different. My feeling is different when I'm interacting with the technology that you've created than as opposed to different platforms is, I say this word empowering quite a lot on this episode, but there's an empowering part of it because it's not competition based. Mhmm. There's a lot of platforms out there that sort of other studio owners against each other by there's all sorts of practices out there.
Hannah:We don't need to name them or anything like that, but there's such a sacred way that we're able to create a place for ourselves, our work, our passions that stands on its own. It doesn't need to compete with someone else's to get more students. And I think that is you choose the mug because it makes you happy. You create the environment that you want to be in. And I think that's what I'm sort of saying is that you've allowed every creator that's on this platform to create their own space and let them inhabit that without without crowding it.
Jeni:Yeah. I hope so. I mean, that that's a big part of the goal for sure. I mean, selfishly, I and and the team get the benefit of seeing kind of the bird's eye view into what happens on the platform. And so there's just a lot of really important work taking place every day.
Jeni:You know? And I think I think that that's sacred. I mean, I think that that's incredibly valuable work in the world. Not everything there's people do other things that I don't think not within my value system or, like, don't align with me perfectly. But there's just, I would say, the lion's share of what goes on in that digital world every day is, like, what I wanna see more of in from humanity.
Jeni:And so, yeah, I mean, we do everything we can to, like, just kind of create the canvas so that the people doing this work in the world, like yourself, Hannah, can have just have the tools that you need to be able to go out and do it. Because, like, that's what is really getting multiplied every day. Like, I just see the sheer volume of, like, community posts and events happening every day. And, like, just like I see the content getting uploaded, like, every couple minutes. Like, there's a refresh, and I just see and it's like just like a glance.
Jeni:It's just it's important that this exists in the world. I think, like, I just wanna, like, kind of create the little container and then let you all run with it because, like, you're doing it. Like, you're make you're making that a reality.
Hannah:That is yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful for people like you that have the foresight to create, you know, to lean into a a place that I would find scary at the beginning and say, okay. Well, how are we gonna make this work?
Hannah:And look at all the possibilities, you know, that can come out of this. I'm sure it's bigger than you probably ever imagined at the beginning. Yeah.
Jeni:Yeah. Yeah. I would have been really happy with, like, 100 customers. And, you know, like, I just never planned. I mean, I certainly didn't plan on the pandemic happening.
Jeni:But even before that, like, I thought it would take a while. Like, I thought it would take, like, 20 years for the industry to get comfortable with because I with with being online. Because when I started very early on, it was only, like, a tiny percentage of folks in wellness that, like, did not think it was a terrible thing to be on the Internet. And so I was it was like, this is gonna be some work, you know, and not everyone's gonna get there. But then, obviously, the pandemic happened and everyone did get here.
Jeni:Yeah. I mean, I think just kind of how I mean, we can just talk about the evils of social media and, like, the problems with it. But also, like, what a freaking powerful way for people to find each other and to find ideas and to connect and to make friends. Like, all the things that are also good about it. And it's, like, that's why I don't see technology through the lens of, like, good or bad.
Jeni:It's just, like, again, a tool. Just like the law is a tool for me. Like, the law there's some pretty terrible things that happen in courtrooms and pretty big decisions that I don't agree with, But that does not mean that it's not a tool. So I'm just gonna, like, keep using it as a tool the best that I can, and I think that's kind of what we should do as humans at this point.
Hannah:That's also the conclusion that I've been coming to after, you know, the the deep thinking and the conversations that I've been having is it's a tool, and we have to stay curious, keep learning with it, and guess with being curious is it has to be a little bit nonjudgmental. I need to assume the best out of it. And then when I do that, then I can dream bigger and create more things, you know. And that's where the good stuff is.
Jeni:Yeah. And be willing I think too, like, when something isn't working right for you or something is questionable, like, to call it out too, you know, to talk to whoever made it or to post wherever you can give feedback. Because the truth is is for the first few decades of the Internet, most people like us didn't participate in any kind of decision making at all. And so, like, a lot has shifted and opened up. And so I think a lot about this, and I would rather be in a world where I have a say in what gets what happens with technology.
Jeni:Like, like, if someone like me is just ducking out and, you know, going to the woods, which also sounds really good a lot of the time, like, then what happens? Like, what world is left? Like, who's choosing to stay in the game? So I think that's, like, kind of that constant, I don't know, philosophical thing to wrestle with. But, yeah, like, having an open mind and then being willing to give feedback, I would say, are the are the 2 most important things that I would advocate for with respect to newer tech.
Hannah:I love that. Jenny, do you have any last bits of advice that you can give teachers out there that haven't haven't quite made the jump or into this? I think that the biggest piece of advice is just to start
Jeni:because I think the anxiety or the hesitation isn't serving. If you have any kind of inkling that this is something you wanna do, then just jump in because the only way you're gonna get comfortable and figure out where you belong on the Internet and how you belong on the Internet is by doing the Internet. It's like the only way out is through. And so if you know that this is kind of where things are headed for you or you suspect it, I would just jump in and start doing it messy. You know?
Jeni:And then, like, it'll become clear. You'll get more, you know, more and more insight into how you need to show up and what you need to teach and who you need to serve by doing. And there's not, like, 47 podcast episodes and YouTube videos to watch first, and then you'll have clarity. Like, that's not how this whole entrepreneurship thing works.
Hannah:In that vein of thinking, on our site, we left all almost all of our early, early videos up there. We left it on because I think it was so important to see, you know, for future teachers that ever stumble upon our platform to see the growth that has to happen and not to be afraid of that. Oh, there's microphone issues. There was all Yeah. All sorts of things.
Hannah:Yeah. And just that that messy start is better than, you know, never starting.
Jeni:I think that's right. Like, I follow a couple of YouTube teach like, people who teach YouTube, like, I anyway, obsessed with YouTube. And I feel like there's the general consensus that, like, your first 50 videos, first 30 videos are just gonna be terrible. Like, they just are going to be bad. And I would say the same it's maybe not as many podcasts because we all are used to talking.
Jeni:Yeah. It's gonna be kinda messy, and that's the only way you get to video 100 where you don't feel like it's terrible is by doing the first 99 where you kinda felt like they were terrible. And so, yeah, I would just jump in and go because the longer you wait, I think, like, we work ourselves up about things. And so and I just had a lot of, you know, folks in our business coaching program. Like, there's the people who jump in and sort of, like, do the work, and there's the people that, like, sit around for 1, 2, 3 years before they really start taking action.
Jeni:And I just see the tortured the tortured experience of that, you know, and I think there's some perfectionism that goes on and, you know, people have busy lives and all that. But, like, I see the difference between, like, the people who jump in and it's like a hot mess for a little while, but then, you know, a few months in, like, they've got something going, they're making sales, they're, like, they're on to the next thing. So just do it. I mean, like, just really just start making the stuff and putting it out there. Just ship it as Seth Godin would say.
Hannah:Yes. Words words of wisdom. I mean, it's the the same mentality of teaching your 1st yoga class, teaching your 1st Pilates class in front of a real person. You know, like, it gets a little messy, and that's okay in the beginning. You know, you just keep on keep on doing it, keep on practicing it.
Hannah:And thank you so much for your time and your expertise and creating these wonderful coaching programs and platforms. And me and Christian are just so glad to know you guys and to be able to take part in it all the time.
Jeni:The feeling is mutual, Hannah. Thank you so much for this conversation and for all of the work that you're doing in the world. And I love following it and bragging about your amazing accomplishments to anyone that I can. So keep on trucking.
Hannah:Thank you.
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