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USDN podcast is run by USDN_JeffyJeff and the Council of Nerds. We strive to bring you the all the latest news and rumors from the World of Nerds and consolidate it right here at USDN. USDN is for the people, by the people and of the people.
all right welcome everybody
to the usdn this is going
to be our echo route party
um so welcome everybody
this is the usdn where we
are for the people by the
people and of the people
here at usdn we strive to
bring you all the latest
news and rumors all right
here in one place and once
rumors are confirmed we
slap them with that seal of approval
So with that, let's get this started.
Thanks for watching!
All right, everybody, welcome back.
Let me introduce you to one
of tonight's special guests,
Bill of the Pop Break.
So let's welcome him, Bill.
Bill, welcome to USDN.
What's going on, man?
I am very flattered and honored to be here,
you know,
given granted clearance to the USDN.
Yes, my name is Bill Bodkin.
I'm the editor-in-chief of
thepopbreak.com.
You may have also seen me on
such things as the Bob Culture Podcast.
And I am, speaking of podcasts,
I'm the co-host of the
Socially Distanced Podcast,
which you can find every
Friday on all your favorite
streaming platforms.
I am the Bill in the Bill
vs. the MCU podcast,
which is my first watch
podcast for Marvel since I
was the original Marvel burnout.
And we are currently...
Our new season starts in February.
We're going to be doing all
the X-Men movies up until
Deadpool's release.
And then finally,
you can find that on Pop Break Today.
And then Pop Break TV,
where we do TV Break,
which is our insider look
at all things TV.
The Streaming Wars,
the brand new episodes that
have dropped for new series.
We're talking about
everything over there on Pop Break TV.
And of course,
thepopbreak.com doing this
for 15 years talking about
all things pop culture from
pro wrestling to marvel and
everything in between uh
joining us soon will be uh
my socially distanced
podcast co-host uh amanda
rivas who is also the
co-host of the anime pop
podcast over on pop break today
I have a lot of plugs and I
can keep going all day.
I am also simulcasting a W
dynamite while I do this.
And I could see it out of
the corner of my eye at my boy,
the big mustache, Hey man,
Adam page taking on Penta
El Zero Miero in all white and
So, you know,
that means hopefully somebody's bleeding.
I certainly hope so.
But, Jeff, again,
thank you so much for having me.
Thank you for always sharing
all the stuff on Pop Break.
I found out you've been a
Pop Break reader for way
longer than I've known.
So that's really cool.
I really have.
So for me,
it was one of those where I
tuned into the BCP the
first time and there's a
Bill Buck in there.
And I'm like, wait, is that the same one?
And then you mentioned it.
I was like, well, I'll be damned.
you're being modest right
now you forgot to mention a
key part of who you are and
that is I'm a dad uh which
is great I have a
nine-year-old daughter
she's awesome but I know
you're gonna mention uh
probably that I'm a bcp
hall of famer which is
that's a weird honor that
rob showed on me rob's a
good friend uh he's a good
brother we've been we've
been through the best of
times we've been through
the worst of times which
did lead back to the best of times
And I've been a proud,
I've been really proud to
watch the Bob Culture
Podcast go from a local
music podcast based out of
the Jersey Shore to what it is today,
a full-fledged digital pop
culture magazine.
Gee,
I wonder where you got that idea from.
But also one of the best
podcasts that celebrates
all things independent wrestling.
He is good,
and I wasn't going to let you
be in a Hall of Famer slide.
We were getting it out there.
Yeah, I mean, it's still weird.
I'm only 42.
Don't let the gray hair fool you guys.
I mean,
I was much younger when Pop Break
started and much less
married and much less busy in life.
Oh, right.
Ladies and gentlemen,
Amanda is in the house finally.
We had some technical difficulties.
We all did today getting in,
so let's bring in Amanda.
Hi, guys.
I am so sorry.
I haven't seen you in so long.
All of us tonight.
I know.
It seems like yesterday, I think.
Yeah, I was like, camera wouldn't turn on,
mic wouldn't turn on.
And I'm like, what is happening here?
And so I'm like,
I'm just going to reboot my
computer and hope for the best.
Well, you're here now.
We got you in.
Thank you.
A good introduction.
I mean,
I didn't give her the full introduction,
which goes places and
involves way too many
inside jokes for one podcast.
Let's save that intro for another show.
She is, you know, everyone's,
she's the pod mother.
She's the Padme Amidala of anime,
the human Star Wars encyclopedia,
the master of the Amanda on a pole match,
everyone's favorite emotional woodpecker,
you know,
which is dying back to our Echo episode.
Yeah, there you go.
I've done this a few times.
Amanda and I,
we're on a mini tour right now.
It's like our Oscar push.
I am happy to say I'm
y'all's last stop this week
before you go back out on
your own to do your own things.
We saved the best for last, man.
You're going to make me blush.
You're going to make me blush.
I don't know if we can see
your cheeks in order to blush,
but all right.
I'm still red right here and right here.
The rest of it's gray.
i just think that's the
alcohol talking so I don't
know I'm on water I'm a
water guy ah there we go or
coffee I drink a lot of
coffee same I love I love
my good cup of coffee
function on coffee and
nicotine there you go I'm
like don't talk to me
unless I've had coffee
right off the bat in the
morning not I'm not a morning person
i just rather most people
don't talk to me in the
morning I don't care if
I've had coffee or not I
mean I kind of have no
choice though people have
to talk to me in the
morning and I'm like yeah
so amanda does the anime
podcast over at the pop
break so we will be seeing
fingers crossed more of
both bill and amanda on
future shows here at usd
and yes bill is always a true inspiration
Thanks, man.
I appreciate it.
Keep that emotional woodpecker in check.
We're going to get to that woodpecker.
That's where we are.
That's something else.
But yeah,
that is something I accidentally
said on our Echo podcast
talking about this.
And when I said it, I'm like, well,
I can never live that down again.
No, but that happens a lot on our podcast.
So random stuff happens and
we're just like,
we're just rolling with it.
We really stack them up, Amanda.
We do.
Yeah, head over and subscribe.
We'll get all the plugs in
at the end of the podcast today.
But right now, let's roll into Echo.
I know y'all have already
covered Echo over at the Pop Break.
Yeah, man.
I usually like to let a show
marinate and then come on
and do a podcast.
So that's what I did.
I let Echo marinate,
gave it a couple of weeks
for people to watch, and then...
Now we're here.
Let's roll right into Echo.
So we will start off with her backstory.
We'll give you the backstory
that IMDB gives everybody.
So the backstory goes, Maya Lopez,
who's ruthless behavior in New York,
catches up with her in her
hometown where she must face her past,
reconnect with her Native American roots,
and embrace the meaning of
family and community if she
ever hopes to move forward.
So what y'all think about
the backstory that was
really given to to that
from Disney and I guess Marvel,
the Marvel Spotlight series
is who wrote that.
Okay.
Well, you know,
the backstory sounded intriguing to me.
You know, I had, you know,
already the trailer was outstanding.
I was like, okay, I'm hooked.
I like this ruthless kind of
just the attitude she brought in.
And I mean,
she was a cool character
already coming in from Hawkeye.
So
you know, it's like, you know, I, I,
I also really liked the,
the incorporation of, you know,
kind of her native American heritage.
I think it's,
it's always really neat when done well,
when, when a culture is incorporated and,
And I had just come up fresh
off of watching what if season two and,
you know, with Kalahari fresh in mind.
And so it's like, okay, you know, this is,
this is a, an additional way.
I was like,
I was even more excited if you will, to,
to go down and learn more
about Echo because of what
I had seen in what if season two.
And then for Hawkeye.
So it had a lot of the
elements I look for in shows.
Again, I'm here for the action.
I'm here for, you know, again, you know,
neat little kind of cultural Easter eggs.
And then, you know, again,
the family part of it.
That's, it's always important.
It's very well-rounded.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And Disney really did good
by this series by they went
out and they did the
research and did all those
things to really
incorporate the Native
American culture into the TV series.
So kudos to Disney and
Marvel for going out and doing that.
Yeah, for sure, man.
Like,
it really added to the depth and the
richness of the character and community.
Like, we've seen, like, there's a lot of,
which I'll be doing on TV break.
I've never watched Reservation Dogs,
but I mean,
there's so many people from
Reservation Dogs who are on the show.
But also just coming off of...
I think they were a little
worried here because you
had this character that was
not the most well-known
comic character coming off
of Hawkeye being maybe the
third or fourth most
important character on the show.
I mean,
a scene stealer when they were in it,
but what were people talking about?
They were talking about, okay,
Hawkeye's done.
When's the next Young Avengers thing?
Is Daredevil coming back?
And then we're getting to Echo.
Well, they did kind of spring Echo on us.
For sure.
They did.
They did.
And so I think that was
their worry a little bit.
Like, what are we going to get here?
And I think Marvel did the
right thing by making it a
spotlight and saying, okay,
we're going to steep this
in the daredevil, you know,
Netflix defender saga style.
And I think that worked
really well because I will
get to it later.
How the Marvel of it all was,
I think what Amanda and I were both like,
yeah,
I don't know if we really needed that,
but we'll get into that later.
No, no, absolutely.
I mean, we got a nice,
nice little show planned out here for us.
With that being said,
do y'all want to roll into
the comic book and how it
differed from the TV series?
Sure.
So she did make her first
appearance in comic books
in Daredevil number nine in 1999,
which in comic book years really wasn't.
that long ago,
and she went on to become a
crucial member of the
Avengers and New Avengers teams, which is,
she's never, from my knowledge,
ever gotten her own comic
book run until recently
when they announced the TV show.
I could be wrong on that
because I just got back
into comic books within the
last couple of years.
Same.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't touched the comic book,
at least for Echo.
I know a little bit about her,
but I have not read the comics.
So there's a question in the chat.
I don't know if I'm supposed
to read it or not, but I'll do it.
I'll read it.
Did either of you have an
expectation of Echo based
on Hawkeye and or what if?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Because, I mean,
she was ruthless in Hawkeye.
And that's really who she is.
Yeah, she stole the show in Hawkeye.
That was such a cool moment in the series.
Yeah, but again, I was worried.
My worry was just how much
were they going to get cold
feet halfway through it?
And I'm really glad they
didn't because they really
stuck to a family story for
the most part of the story,
like Amanda said.
And that turned out to be
some of the best stuff there.
So my expectation from What
If was I was wondering
since Debra Jacobs was the
voice of Kihori in What If Season 2,
we're like, well,
is this somehow going to tie into this?
Or will she, will Echo's powers or not,
which I know is coming up, Echo's powers,
maybe that's going to differ.
Maybe there's some sort of
link between those two.
And I can see them doing that.
I can see them eventually
bringing the two together.
But we'll see.
I'm pretty sure Marvel has a plan, I hope.
Yeah, well,
it'll be interesting to see
what they do with Kalahori
because she is a completely
original character.
So they really can
incorporate her wherever
they see fit is the way I
look at it because there's
no precedent for her.
Link's late.
No comic books,
no nothing as of right now.
I did see,
I read an article that they were
planning on comic books later.
I'll probably say later this summer,
we'll see her first comic
book hit the shelf.
We did.
I mean,
we're already seeing a new
Thunderbolt series, which I'm,
which I'm reading through,
but it is different from the films,
but so yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.
I mean,
Kevin Feige is in charge of Marvel
entertainment now.
So like everything is kind of running.
Everything's got to run through him.
So I'm not shocked that
we're going to see some of
these MC originals like
getting or MCU updates,
getting new titles coming up.
Oh yeah.
So with that, the, um, well,
When it comes to her Native
American heritage in the TV show,
she is being reflected as
being a member of the Choctaw Nation.
But in the comic book,
she was a Blackfeet Nation from Montana.
So that was one of the what
I felt was like a major
change to actually who she was,
because it is really two
different things there.
So.
I'm curious, I wonder why they did that.
I'm not sure if it was just like.
The one group was like, no,
we don't really want this.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
They contacted them and they were like,
we don't want to really be
out in the media that way.
Yeah.
I wonder about that too, because it, it is,
I mean, they're two completely different,
you know, tribes and nations.
And so it's, it's,
it's a delicate line to walk,
but that's what I wonder too, if they got,
if,
if they didn't get permission or the
other thing that crossed my mind was,
I wonder if this was just
Disney's attempt.
This is a Disney kind of
more so to be different from Marvel,
or at least to kind of get
away from the comic book a little bit.
Yeah.
I'm not sure but yeah it's
one of those it kind of
made me scratch my head and
go but why I mean it's been
established I mean yes in
1999 wasn't that long ago
in comic book years but in
reality it's quite a while so yeah
I thought it was maybe
because it was a Laqua Cox
and that's her background
that it was sort of like, okay,
we're going to go with her.
I was like, all right.
That would make sense too.
It's just one of those where
I scratch my head on that one and go,
okay, cool.
But why?
I'm always a why guy when it
comes to that kind of stuff.
When it comes to the comic
book characters being
portrayed into movies and it's like, well,
I've read that comic book.
Why did they do it that way?
That's not the story.
Or why are they combining
these three stories into one story?
And that's always been my
argument with DC movies, Marvel movies,
what have you.
But that's a whole other
show for a whole other time.
Also,
one of the big differences is when
Maya shoots Kingpin into Marvel Comets,
she returns home to explore
her roots in the TV series.
However...
In the comic book, she travels.
She just goes about.
She meets Wolverine, befriends him.
He helps her recover and
teaches her Japanese culture, customs,
about organized crime.
What a teacher.
Let me teach you about Japan.
Here's the mob.
Let's go.
Where was that class at Rutgers University,
guys?
Come on.
I would have taken that.
That's a good question.
It's one of those where they were like, oh,
she just goes straight home.
No,
she actually kind of made her rounds
through the towns there.
She ran into Wolverine.
She made the towns.
She worked the territories.
Exactly.
She was a good brother and
we didn't even know.
I was going to reference it
back to the territories.
Well,
I can definitely see why Marvel would
pull any mention of Wolverine out.
Cause they're really,
I think just trying to hold,
I feel like they're just
trying to hold him for the
big reveal when we get to
the X-Men in this.
Yeah.
He's a huge part of,
he's a huge part of Ms.
Marvel too.
There's a great comic series
and they actually call back
to it in the new Aman
Valani run where she meets
him in a sewer and they
fight a huge alligator.
Like,
It's great.
Give me Hugh Jackman and
Iman Valani fighting a CGI alligator.
Shit, I'll put me in an alligator suit.
I've done it before in high school.
Long story of my history
playing animals in musical
theater in high school.
So you're telling us you're Wolverine.
No,
he's telling us he's got a secret
history of being a furry.
No, I'm telling you, listen,
if you need someone to
pretend to be an alligator, I can do it.
Also, I used to have longer hair,
so I definitely looked like
Wolverine at one point.
But no, I've never been a furry.
And that's one thing I'm
definitely going to put out
there to the world so they know that.
And I'm very proud to say I
have never been.
No judgment, but for you guys.
But you didn't say that.
You said you've had
experience playing animals.
in musical theater in high
school at an all-boys
catholic high school
there's more jokes you can
write in there I was like
you're not helping yourself
out no no no trust me the
catholicism of it all which
we'll get into daredevil
soon enough that alone
that'll hold up that whole
little deeper down for you
so this is gonna come elvin
actually said that so
that's something they're
holding up wondering why
they're holding on to that and
Well,
Wolverine's not actually out in the
MCU yet.
Wow.
July 26th.
Wow.
Yeah.
That mustard yellow suit, I should say,
is coming out real soon.
July 26th.
And we are going to see our
first trailer for it, Super Bowl Sunday.
Yep.
It finished wrapping today.
There was something else
that finished wrapping today, too.
I can't remember what it was
off the top of my head.
Daredevil started Monday.
Yeah.
Daredevil did start on Monday, yeah.
You're right.
listen you could judge me
for being catholic it's
fine black man hey a man's
faith is a man's faith I
know trust me I make fun of
it all the time so you can
do that because you're of
that faith I'm not I don't
know what man I mean we
don't care we don't care
we're catholics ourselves it's okay
Yeah, I mean, we could.
I mean, listen, I played a goat in one.
I played a horse.
So you really can't say you were the goat?
I can't say that.
I cannot let that pass.
I was the goat, man.
He is a goat.
He is literally and figuratively a goat.
Hey, Tom Brady, kiss my ass.
As a New York Giants fan, I could do that.
You beat him to the Hall of Fame.
I did.
I did.
True story.
True story.
One of the biggest I felt differences in,
well,
even with Hawkeye is that the
original Ronan was actually Echo.
And then it was later on
taken up by Clint when he
went on his killing spree.
So that was another big one
that I felt was like, okay,
we got Hawkeye in the Ronan.
We got Maya
slash Echo and Hawkeye fighting the Ronin,
which kind of
discombobulates the timeline
of those things,
considering she was the
first one to bear the
mantle of the Ronin.
Yeah, but now that you say it,
wouldn't that be pretty cool
if she returned and she
picked up the Ronin costume
or modified or took it?
I know Clint burned it in
his lovely barbecue, but I mean, listen,
guys, costume designers exist.
So I could see her being
incorporated into that.
I was, yeah, I was about to say, she's got,
she's got the newer gear.
She could probably make her
own Ronin outfit or, you know,
with the new one she's got.
Listen,
we don't know how good of a costume
designer Biscuits is.
This is true.
You live out boy Biscuits alone.
Listen,
I'm saying what if Biscuits is like
the dude from Daredevil who
made the Daredevil costume?
I'm just trying to give
Biscuits another payday, brother.
That's what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to get him an envelope.
We just need more Biscuits.
We need more Biscuits in our lives.
But yeah, I just wonder.
I figured they were going to
take Echo out of... I mean,
we see this happen a lot
with adaptations where
they're going to mess with
the timeline to kind of
just to make everything fit
the current narrative and
the different phases that
are being built each time.
So I...
in this even though it was a
big deviation from the
comic it still works at
least in the way and the
frame that that marvel has
kind of built everything so
far and I mean at least
they still you know she
still encounters hawkeye
and clint but but it you
know again it's just it's
the the change of the
narrative still works in a
strange way and this is one
of those instances where it does work
Because he had already been
established in the timeline as Hawkeye.
We do see him in Hawkeye as the Ronin.
So it makes sense.
And then seeing her show up
when he is the Ronin.
So they can always be like, oh, well,
he found the suit and picked it up.
Yeah.
So, I mean...
they can go back and play with that.
Or,
or they kind of revisit that in another
multiverse that we're
getting maybe like another,
another what if, or, you know,
they kind of, again, you know,
we may see another in
another phase where we go
and we do see the,
the echo that everyone is
familiar with in the Ronin outfit.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be mad.
No,
I feel like maybe they're saving it for
that.
Or maybe we didn't get like a,
a what if where she does meet Wolverine.
Apparently we're getting a
Gundam wing in What If Season 3.
Yes, and I was excited.
Let's do it.
The Season 3 trailer,
it's like Season 2 ended,
let's drop fire on them
right now while the fire is hot.
It's like they just threw
gasoline on the YTF fire and was like,
boom, here you go.
They're walking through a
pit of danger right now, so let's do it.
Hey, roll the dice.
So another one of the
differences from the comic
book to Marvel was her
mother died in a car
accident when she was a child.
However, in the comic book,
it was her father who died
by the Ronin when she was
an adult in the TV show.
But in the comic, she was a child still.
But however,
it didn't matter how it played out,
whether you do it that way or that way,
Kingpin still adopts her
and brings her in and
basically raises her.
So, I mean, at least they got that.
Yeah,
I was about to say that's probably
the most key aspect is, you know,
as long as she was raised
by Kingpin and you have
that relationship there,
that I feel like is the
most important thing.
If they had deviated from that completely,
people would have been upset.
Yep.
I mean, they still did it.
It's just how they did it.
They kind of just, like, reversed it.
Well, and they still gave a very intense,
you know, death scene, too, where,
you know, I mean, again,
with what happened in
Hawkeye with her and her dad,
and even just revisiting that,
that even though, yes, he was obviously,
you know, enrolled in a life of crime,
you still, your heart still went out.
That scene still...
It's hard to watch.
And I think with that execution of it,
you still get the intent across.
She's lost her dad.
And then, of course,
she lost her mom when she was young.
And just even to go from
that perspective as a child
to see and to hear the heartbeat.
uh or like you know sense
feel that or since that was
just that was uh that was a
lot emotionally so I think
as long as that comes
across and you get that
feeling that she's been
lost she's lost and then
kingpin fills that void in
his own twisted way as we
come to find out but she
refers to him as uncle
throughout the entire tv
series she looked at him as
that father figure
That was actually really good.
It sounds like a volcano.
Diet Coke you were just
drinking is kind of like right there.
That's your Irish whiskey
discourse and no vocal cords.
Yeah.
It's going to haunt me later.
But I think one thing about
comic book adaptations is
unless you have a very famous,
very specific origin story,
it's okay to tweak it a little bit.
We don't know Echo so well.
So if you're a hardcore Echo fan,
you're going to take on Prince with this.
How many of those are there?
know what it honestly to me
it doesn't matter like I
feel like even if there's
one it someone's out there
who's gonna be like ah you
changed this but you know
so many book adaptations
like how much stuff has
been changed from book to
from page to screen I mean
look at the shining like
the kubrick film versus uh
what stephen king wrote and
then when stephen king's
stuff went to abc
whereas like you have my
wife always talks about
it's like topiary is like
moving it's like that's a
little silly you know what
I mean on the page it's
frightening in this it's
just like oh there's a
there's a cgi tree moving
okay this is really bad um
where's jack nicholson
please uh but with this I
think you could switch it
but like you couldn't switch like
They did it with Spider-Man a bit,
which was fine,
but they also... You can't
get rid of Steve Rogers
being frozen in ice.
You can't not have Matt Murdock
be blinded you can't have
the hulk not go through
what the hulk went through
if thor not have loki and
odin you know what I mean
with echo you can play with
it a little bit you have a
little bit of leeway
because you do have like
that is not as well known
even the guardian stuff I
think they changed
guardians like those aren't
the original guardians like
but they changed them up
they changed some origin
stories they did a little
tweak in here and there and
but I think we're all the
better for it and that's
what's great and what I've
always loved about
Yeah, I'm not a fan of when they do it,
but that's what's great
about the comics is that you can do it.
And within comics, there's so many.
I just got back into it.
How many number ones there
are right now and how many
new visions of this character?
There's a Daredevil comic
that was not long ago that
was out where he was a priest.
And now there's one where
he's in black armor.
So, I mean, it's, like,
literally... Think about
Spider-Man right now, too.
Yeah.
I was about to say Spider-Boy.
Spider-Boy just dropped, like,
last week or the week before, like,
two weeks ago.
Yeah, I have the second book.
Yeah, it's... Like, it's all different,
man.
It's, like,
everyone's meeting in different
places and sometimes even
within their own issue.
Like, Spider-Boy is, like,
doing this one thing where
he's trying to hide and
then in the second part of the issue,
he's at the Thanksgiving
Day Parade with Squirrel Girl.
And you're just, like,
two different artistic
styles and you're like, okay,
so it's all...
it's all gravy, man.
I know, but I mean, but I think like,
if you're like a hardcore
fan of something, you're,
you could take a little umbrage with it,
but I also think you need
to realize like not
everything is apples to
apples when it comes to adaptations.
And also I think too, that it would,
it's a really cool thing when, you know,
you see people who maybe
have never seen echo before
and never heard about echo.
They watch the show and they're like, Oh,
she's a comic character.
Okay.
Let me go check out the comic.
And so it would be,
so I think that there's a,
even though yes, it's an adaptation,
at least if it can, it can,
encourage people to go check
out the comics.
you know, and just, and just, and,
and dive into,
and if they want to read more about her,
they can.
And I think that's a really
cool thing when, when, when, you know,
there's a lot more people now that again,
who I, I, you know,
had never heard about Echo
before and now they're
exposed because of the show.
So I think it's, it's a,
it's a great way to get someone exposure,
you know, as well,
a character that's lesser known exposure.
So people are like, this is really cool.
So I think that's a,
that's a cool thing about some,
like a show like this is
that it put a new hero in
other people into the
forefront instead of
everybody that we know and love, you know,
Thor, Thor Stan over here.
Well, Chris Hemsworth Stan really,
you know,
I really like is that people
will see the character that
drives them to their local
mom and pop comic shop.
Yes.
And then they get exposed to
more and now they're hooked to,
and now your local mom and
pop places get to keep the
doors open longer they get
to be is they don't have to
worry about their electric
bills I mean the comic book
industry was almost dead
pre-covered and then covet
happened and between the
tabletop gaming and comic
books if this all of a
sudden comic book stores
are thriving once again and
it's kind of been I think
it's finally like leveled
out now and there's they're
still like riding good highs
And people are going back in and like,
it's terrific to see.
Yeah.
I mean,
I do it once a month with my daughter.
I used to do that.
They like at the same exact
age as her with my dad.
going to a local comic shop,
looking at cards, looking at figures,
looking at comic books.
And she picks up a couple.
I pick up a couple.
And it's a lot of fun.
And I subscribe to Marvel Unlimited now,
so I can go back and read a
lot of the old stuff.
And I read it on my iPad.
But I still pick up a couple
physical copies of new stuff,
like Thunderbolts,
which I'm reviewing on Pop Break.
I'm going to do it.
And that's the first run of
a book I've done since I was 10.
It's actually quite good, Bill.
Yeah, that's very good.
Thanks.
Oh, no, I meant the comic book.
I'm going to review.
I'm saying the comic book is
really awesome.
I've read the comic book, too.
It's a lot of fun.
So I think there's a lot of
us who are getting back into it,
and then we're passing it
down as Amanda and I do.
I don't know if you're a dad or not, Jeff.
So as Amanda and I do to our children.
I got a senior in high school.
Most of my bots at my local
comic shop is my daughter's stuff.
Yeah.
I was going to say, I'm just,
when I went like this, I'm like,
I can't imagine my child as
a senior in high school.
Yeah.
I'm mentally blocking that
out with my child growing up.
No, not ready for all the conversations,
all those things.
We're getting college visits.
We're getting acceptance letters.
Best of luck to you and your daughter.
I'm telling you, it's like,
I wasn't stressed enough as
it was because she just started driving,
but now we're doing college
on top of like back to back.
And I'm just like,
Yeah, mentally blocking that out,
not ready.
So comic books are awesome.
Yes.
Comic books, absolutely.
But that's the thing.
What you're seeing with comic books, too,
is we just watched Hawkeye 4,
000 times over Christmas.
My daughter is obsessed with Kate Bishop.
And so she wanted Kate
Bishop comics and I went
out and I got him for a couple.
And then it's like, you know,
I download some stuff off
the Marvel app for her.
And that's where it is right now.
It's really translating.
I mean, I wasn't married.
I love those kids, man.
I love being an uncle to his kids.
It's great.
I get to watch them grow up
and not have to worry about
any other thing else.
There you go.
Yeah.
I'm that way too.
It was,
My daughter,
she's into the Gengors right
now from Marvel.
I don't know what that is.
I know Gengar the Pokemon.
Well, she loves him too.
But that's another show for another time.
But yeah,
Street Wars is like the street level.
Oh, Street Wars.
I thought you said Gengars.
I'm like, wait a second.
Is there a whole bunch of
super powered Pokemon?
My bad.
Let me put my Alabama away.
No, Gengors.
Yeah, that's what I'm going to get.
once it's like into the the
app and I'm gonna like read
that or they put it into a
collection I think I'm
waiting for that for a
collection she she is not
she she she read the first
one online and she was like
dad go talk to scott down
anatomic and make this
happen for me I just said
okay she's reading and
that's what you don't
realize is like your kids
ask for comic books and they ask for
manga they're reading aren't
you going to get your kid
reading that's my son's
preference actually he
doesn't care for regular
book like traditional books
he's like I want to read
like a manga or I want to
read now he reads comics
like I'll let him pick his
own comics and he's reading
it's great and then I make
I make him read subtitles
so we watch our animes and
sub so he has to practice
reading the subtitles so he
knows what's going on we're
reading comprehension thoughts and I'm
the same age as bill.
And it's a thing.
It sucks being from Alabama.
So my education ain't that
great to begin with.
But yeah, I,
I used to work at a bookstore
and like when I was a kid and they, no,
no kids didn't really
outside of Harry Potter.
No one bought books.
Now I see more and more.
You're seeing, sorry,
they just announced Brian
Danielson and Eugene Nakata
for collision.
I just,
I all thoughts went out of my head.
I'm sorry.
Um, DVR.
Uh, so I, uh,
I think that, you know,
you see kids reading so much more.
Like, Percy Jackson's huge.
So many kids are reading Percy Jackson.
Yes.
And by the way, the show is great.
It's a good show.
Amanda, you will love it.
Well, Adam Copeland's in it.
Yeah.
I started watching the first episode.
I will get back to it.
The darkest one possible.
It can't be as dark as True Detective,
though.
There's a distinct lack of
frozen male genitalia in Percy Jackson.
Yes, Kimberly, you may want to see it.
Maybe just, you know,
sometimes it's just a preference.
It was easier for my son and
he was more engaged.
My son does have ADD.
So that also, I think, you know,
it held his attention span
longer to read comics.
And,
and even now he's starting to with manga,
like he's not super great at manga,
but he is enjoying it because it's,
it's like, he's reading the one,
some of the one piece ones.
Although I do, I do watch where he's,
he's going with it.
Cause I know it will get a little intense,
but at least if he can,
you can read a volume or two
he's as long as he's not
trying to throw punches
from way over here you know
yes well yeah I mean he is
he is he is well he's also
uh he's also casting you
know he's also doing
casting air right now he's
an airbender at the moment
with ang so that's where
he's it's almost time for
that too I know I'm here for it I'm ready
Hey,
I love it when I hear kids reading the
comics, man.
Exactly.
And then Black just became a Potterhead,
by the way.
He was a little late to the
party on becoming a Potterhead.
I'm waiting for that in my house.
Yeah, so Kimberly, you know,
the comic books are trying,
the manga are trying.
And they do have more child appropriate,
like easier reading level
comics that you can find.
There is a whole section at
most comic stores.
They have a whole section
dedicated to kids from
Ninja Turtles to Batman and Scooby-Doo.
It's great because I get
Batman and Scooby-Doo too
because I watched that as a kid.
So whenever I see Batman and
Scooby-Doo come to a comic book,
I was like, oh, childhood.
In a lot of bookstores like
a Barnes & Noble,
they have more graphic
novels and stuff like that.
There's a great one, Marvel 1,
where it's about Peter
Parker has to babysit all
the pets of all the superheroes.
It's a very visual read with
not a ton of words,
but it's so engaging visually.
I read it in like
20 minutes.
And I think, I think kids will,
I think it's, it's a really good seller.
So yeah, it's, it's pretty awesome.
So that might be a good one
for your son to check out too.
There's a lot of bookstores
that are really specializing this stuff.
I think you'll,
I think you'll definitely
find something cool.
Most comic bookstores have a
whole kids section.
Yes.
Some of them do.
And that's really cool.
I'm excited for that.
Cause it's passing down to
the next generation.
Oh, same.
I was an Archie.
I'm an Archie fan.
Yeah.
Like Archie horror stuff is
like top shelf stuff for me.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My mom,
my mom still has a lot of her old
Archie comic books.
She probably can sell that
for like a minute, dude.
She didn't always take good care of them,
but yes,
she probably still could make a
good amount of money from them.
I've seen stuff sell for
ridiculously prices and it's like, how,
but let's get back into echo guys.
Yeah.
So in,
The MCU,
it was the Ronin who killed Maya's
father.
However, in the comic book,
Kingpin killed him.
And then he told her that it
was the Daredevil that did it.
Yes.
It was a big deviation there,
but it doesn't affect the
story that we're getting
currently playing out with
Echo and what I think we're
going to get again with the
new Kingpin story coming
out in the new Daredevil.
So I think it's going to be a nice...
mesh when daredevil hits the
streets so I'm excited I'm
excited yeah uh I i really
am looking for I still
haven't seen season three
of daredevil I'm gonna
after I get through my
homework assignments for
socially distance and all
the other podcasts so in
like uh next year I'll I'll
I'll get through daredevil
season three I'm really I
love the first two seasons
and uh I'm very excited for
the arc they're going to
take with kingpin here
Oh, yeah.
I know we're going to get to it.
I think we're going to be
talking about Echo and Daredevil,
and I'm curious to see how
that goes further.
We got their initial
interaction in the show
with that pretty cool fight scene.
It's funny that they're fighting now.
They became lovers later on.
I don't know if that's going to happen.
I guess it's because of a timeline issue.
I don't blame her if she
goes after Charlie Cox.
Stick with Cole.
He's not bright when it
comes to the ladies.
He's charming though.
I know,
but he always goes for the wrong one.
She-Hulk was bad for him?
No, no, no.
I liked them together.
As someone who married an attorney,
I can tell you
He made the right choice.
But normally you're just like, Matt, God,
dude, like, let's get it together.
Keep your head in the game.
But then again, Maya, I don't know.
She suffers no fools.
So I could see like a little
like he tries something and
she's just like, no, no,
we ain't doing that.
Yeah,
I don't think in this timeline I
could see them.
I'm curious to see if Disney tries,
like Disney Marvel slash Marvel tries.
But I think the way that
they've built up both characters,
I don't know necessarily if
they would actually hook up or not.
Again, you know,
would I turn down Charlie Cox?
I mean, I like my short kings.
We know this.
You do stay in a short king.
I love my short king.
I have my short king at home.
Nobody's judging.
He's a nice guy.
I like him.
Oh, thank you.
To you guys, he's nice.
He was great on Loki Season 2.
I loved him.
That's an inside joke
because I'm staring at you like,
what are you even talking about?
Just go back to Loki Season 2.
Just watch for a certain
character and you'll be like, oh,
I get it.
Alright, I gotta do that now.
But yeah, she should be in Daredevil.
I think she has to,
but there was also a
question if White Tiger, like,
I heard rumors that White
Tiger is Jennifer Jacobs.
White Tiger's showing up.
I know they confirmed it today from CBR,
got the article that
Bullseye is showing up.
everyone reported that one
like like every major
outlet which is cool yeah
well and even the crime
guild in the from what I
read in the the show I mean
there's it's tied to to
bullseye yeah and and we're
um damn it bill
But yeah,
there is a couple other ones that
were tied back to this.
There was the rumors that
Foggy and Karen are coming back as well,
which, listen,
there's all sorts of rumor
and innuendo with that.
Karen Page, listen, she is a hot mess.
I'm here for it.
But you got to bring Foggy back.
I think there's a lot of rumors.
Yeah, well, it's not 100% confirmed.
It's not 100%,
but the source is pretty damn reliable.
The big thing is it's just like,
what are we getting?
Because this show was
supposed to be like a
procedural with like White
Tiger's dad on trial and
Karen and Foggy maybe were
getting killed in the beginning.
And the interesting thing
here is when Echo takes place,
Echo and Daredevil's fight
takes place during the snap.
Like they are fighting and
half the world is gone,
which is like crazy.
And I wonder,
someone said this on Twitter
and I really wonder,
because obviously Matt can hear heartbeats,
he can hear all this stuff.
Are you going to open the
show with him hearing half
the world's heartbeats stop?
Yeah.
Because if that's what you open it with,
buckle up, kids.
Can I swear on this podcast?
Fuck yeah.
This show's going to be
massively fucked up.
Everyone's dead.
Everyone's dead, Matt.
And he's just like, fuck.
Kimberly,
I'm not sure what you mean by the
foul four.
Are you thinking fantastic four?
Cause that is defenders or
maybe the defenders.
Yeah.
I do know we're getting
supposedly all the street level guys are,
Well, we don't know about Iron Fist, man.
I don't know.
We're not getting him back.
We're not getting him back as Iron Fist.
We don't know about Iron Fist, Luke Cage.
Jessica Jones, they said,
was going to come back.
Punisher is coming back.
All they got to do is call her.
So we'll see.
I mean, I'm all for it.
Bring it back.
Bring them all.
One big showdown after the snap.
Daughters of the Dragon.
Bring them in.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
I went from not knowing shit
about Marvel to knowing a couple things.
There you go.
The biggest,
most obvious thing that they
left off of Maya for the TV
show was the handprint that
she wears in honor of her father.
That was the biggest thing that I was like,
where's the handprint?
I feel like they might be saving that.
And I think like in a very, it's,
I feel like it's still going to happen,
but I feel like it's going
to be in a much more
dramatized type of way.
Very Marvel, probably some kind of epic,
you know,
kind of an epic moment happening.
Maybe it's like a flashback.
Maybe it's one of her ancestors that,
you know, I feel like there's something,
or maybe it might even be
something that maybe her
grandmother gives her.
or another member of her family.
But I feel like, you know,
that's being held for a dramatic,
maybe like a, you know,
she ascends to like the
next step of superhero, you know,
kind of the next evolution of her,
of her superhero persona.
So I feel like that's just,
that's intentionally being
held for a dramatic moment.
Yeah, I could see that.
like the final showdown with
kingpin yeah battle world
something like that and
just like let's just go
sometimes you gotta throw
that war paint on man yeah
I mean and she wore that
from the the day her father
died in the day he put his
hand on her she always had
that so that was like the
most glaring thing to me
that was why did they leave
that out but now amanda's
got me thinking like
they're going to do
something cool with it they
got to and we'll see it in daredevil
Because I feel like it's
such a dramatic build with
other members of her family.
I feel like it's going to be
the grandmother because
she's the one that has... Oh man,
that'd be cool.
I'd pop if it was biscuits.
But I feel like it's either
going to be her grandmother or Bonnie.
Bonnie.
Yeah,
I can see it being Bonnie or her
grandmother.
Because they have that
spiritual connection.
So we already mentioned Matt Burdock.
So we're skipping that part.
Can we give you our hot take
about Matt Murdock and his show?
Hell yeah.
Absolutely.
He didn't need to be in it?
No, he didn't.
But that fight scene was worth it.
It was cool.
I don't know if it was necessary, though.
It was totally unnecessary,
but totally worth it.
They shoehorned that in politely,
even though it was a fun scene.
Politely, they shoehorned it in.
I'm writing that down.
That's one of those things.
It's going to get set again on here.
It's like, excuse me, guys.
I'd just like to shoehorn
this fight scene.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
I mean,
they could have made it a lot more.
They could have really gone
over the top with it.
Well, the original fight scene,
I think it was like a
seven-minute nonstop fight scene.
But I think they cut it down
because there's no way that
was a full seven-minute
fight that they showed.
No.
not at all there's no way so
I i feel like they could
they could have done they
could have been more
grandiose about it I guess
so I'm like I love a good
hot take that's why I say
politely shoehorned as a
whole we love our hot dates
yeah we're gonna pull the
politely shoehorning is now
at the new emotional
woodpecker of our podcast
so uh you're welcome everyone
You could also use the phrase, well, no,
I can't give that one away.
It's Alice.
I can't give it away.
Yeah, I know where you're going with it.
That might happen later.
Yeah, I know.
It's too good not to say.
Would she have really loved him?
He was killing everyone.
No, because she's... I understand that.
Would she have loved him?
Um, that was, uh, that was, that was,
I lost everything in my ear
and I was trying to figure
out what was happening.
That is my bad, y'all.
Um, no, that's all good.
Um, yeah,
I think that's why it proved that
to Daredevil, to Daredevil,
to Kingpin that she, um,
she could hold her own and
he could promote her, uh, for father,
you know, after he killed her dad.
He's like, oh, okay,
I can just put you in.
You're the cheaper replacement.
But I also think that's
going to play into Daredevil Born Again,
where somehow he remembers
her and there's some sort
of connection there and stuff like that.
Maybe that's where we get
the seven-minute fight scene.
It's got to be 94 episodes.
Yeah,
all of a sudden everything in my ear
just stopped.
I couldn't hear nothing.
I think something happened
with my headphone,
so I went to pull and I
didn't expect it to
Completely sound like a
banshee screaming at y'all.
That's my bad.
Oh, it's okay.
This would be our final difference here is,
what did y'all think about
them changing her power set in Echo?
From her having just the ability to...
basically premonition and to echo what,
and to expect what's coming
next and be ahead of it to
her actually having like a supernatural,
like superpower, I guess you could say.
I didn't object to it very
much because it is the hard part about,
you know, translating from comic to,
you know, to a live action is, you know,
there's some concepts that are, you know,
that are easier to visualize.
And sometimes you have to visualize,
whereas in the comic,
it works like her original,
her original concept.
skill set worked in the comics,
but if you want to
translate that across pretty much, Trevor,
I agree with that.
She's like a mutant.
And I feel like there's a
purpose behind this with
the change in her powers.
I feel like she's somehow
going inside of the X-Men
and we're going to see her
as a mutant,
if you are being considered in
that regard.
But I also think that, you know,
it's Marvel, it's Feige.
They're going to do
something to differentiate
her from being another,
while a great martial artist,
another martial artist.
And so I feel like they
handled her abilities in a
very tasteful way.
you know,
that I think was respectful of
her culture.
I liked that they tied it to, you know,
to the first Choctaw that
you got that lore.
So they made it a very intriguing,
you know, kind of an intriguing, Oh,
that's a good one.
Kimberly with the title
Wolverine and strikers program.
That's a good one.
A solid.
Yeah.
I was going to say that Trevor.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I've watched Black Widow about four
times in the last three days.
So, yeah, it's Taskmaster's thing.
Life with the Daughter, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I mean, hopefully it's one of the,
these situations where her
abilities will grow and maybe be,
become more individualized,
more unique to her as,
as we move on with whether she's,
you know,
obviously I think she's going to
be in daredevil,
but if we get a season two of echo or not,
you know, or she,
we get to a point where she shows up,
you know,
maybe like in secret wars or something,
and she's got more evolved powers.
Cause that would be cool to
see her and Kalahari together.
Yeah.
On the screen at the same time.
Although we've talked about
whether we want Kalahari to
move from animation to live action.
We've heard different takes on that.
Why should I stay?
Give us the hot take now.
I'm all about it.
You want to go first, Bill?
Oh man,
I have to remember a hot take from
three weeks ago.
I don't remember a hot take from Meow.
From Meow is basically I...
I'm cool with them giving
her her own thing.
I think the,
but I think the execution of
it wasn't the best in the
end because they did this
thing where they're like,
she can pass it along to
her grandma and Bonnie.
And we had no establishment of,
we had no rules based on her power.
So it was like, okay, she can, she can,
you know,
they are tied to the women of
the Choctaw nation, but like,
we don't know what her power is.
It was like, part of it's like,
she's a great, um,
So it's like, she's a great strategist.
She has this power.
She does this, she does that.
That's cool.
But you gotta,
you gotta work it in a little bit more.
It was like,
there is a truncated part of
that finale that if you
would let it breathe a
little bit more and
establish what her powers are,
then you're like, ah, cool, cool, cool.
And now I know what's going
on here instead of what it was.
Like, I love the healing part.
And I know Amanda and I were both like,
that was cool.
Like when she does that with
Kingpin and now it's not
really going to heal Kingpin.
It's just like,
closing one door and he's
going to open another of
evil and disgust.
But I thought that the
powers were a little...
That's the Marvel of it.
They were going to have to
Marvelize her and make her
fit into the Marvel
narrative at this point that we have.
Kalahari,
do I want to see her go from
animated to live action?
I think if it's done well,
I would be maybe okay with it.
But I also do like the fact
that we have this character
that's animated as well.
And there's a lot more
freedom sometimes when you
go in animation.
I feel like just like, you know,
I think it's kind of the same idea.
Like if you go from, you know,
like One Piece, right?
You went from animated
series or anime series to live action.
And in this case, it worked.
Although I feel like
It's going to be a challenge
in later seasons because of
everyone's abilities.
You have to translate those
from anime to live action.
They're going to leave
characters out because
they're not going to have
the ability to really...
Yeah, and I feel like with Kalahari,
though,
you have to be careful if you
translate her to live action,
where she has more freedom
to have some pretty cool
ways to manifest to show her abilities.
She also has some abilities
that are a little similar
to... They remind me of
very Scarlet Witch type of powers,
and I don't know
necessarily that we need
another live action...
Here's the thing about that, though.
She's going to be a big, bad...
she is zombie wanda yes why
not bring her in into that
because wanda has to heal
the universe when she comes
from underneath the rubble
of mount wendigo man she's
not done she's she's she's
got wanda's coming back I
think if you see corey it's
going to be as as echo sees
it as a vision
And it's going to be whether
it's in daredevil, whether it's in,
you know, whether it comes to her,
you know,
speaks to her in the multiverse
or something like, like,
cause we are in a multiversal saga.
She's in a different time.
So maybe there's some sort
of interaction there or
Marvel just might leave her in.
What if like,
I don't know if we're going
to see captain Carter in live action.
We, I mean, we did, we did, but I mean,
Nothing as a headliner or anything.
Are we going to see certain versions?
Are we going to see the Happy Hogan,
the freak?
Are we going to see that come out?
No.
That one can stay animated.
I think there's some that
are going to stay animated.
I think Echo has to stand on
her own because the show
did get really good
critical reviews and it has
gotten audience.
I think Echo is where the money is.
and you can't keep how uh on
bill versus the mcu we did
a thing where we tallied
like how many like
heroes there are.
There's like 75 different characters,
and there's so many of them
over the past two years
that are just hanging threads.
Hercules, Clea, Scar, like so many.
And now you're thinking of
adding White Tiger,
and now you're going to put
a whole new Fantastic Four.
It's almost like you could
leave Gohori as a small
Easter egg for fans of What If,
and then just leave that character there.
I'm kind of liking the idea
that she is a vision.
that that to me is like I'm
like oh bill I'm like damn
like that's that's a good
one yeah I got it blind
squirrel finds not broken
clock is right twice a day
that's that's a good one
though so I i interpreted
her powers as kind of like
her ancestors can go to any
of them because I mean
Grandma was whooping some ass, all right?
She was.
She was.
And it's kind of like,
it wasn't necessarily Maya's power.
She didn't have that power at the time.
It only goes to when it's
the person that needs it.
Her grandma needed some super strength,
so grandma got some super strength.
Bonnie, you know, she got the same.
So that's the way I interpreted her power,
is to give her what she
needs when she needs it.
So.
It just makes me wonder if
it's tied just to the bloodline, though.
That's the way I interpret it.
That was yesterday's podcast, Amanda.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's true.
This is true.
Acknowledge him.
I see what you did there.
I won't.
I do.
Acknowledge your tribal chief.
Although I'm tired of the fucking story,
but that's neither here nor there.
If you're tired of that story,
you should hear Amanda's
thoughts on the Bob Culture
podcast where she gives you
a hot take about that.
I'll have to go back and
listen to that one.
That's exactly why I said it that way.
So with that,
let's roll right into the episodes.
All these episodes,
all five episodes are named
after one of Maya's
ancestors that she draws her powers from.
And I would like to note
that the woodpecker that we
discussed earlier is called a Biskinik.
And it symbolized the sacred
bread of the Choctaw.
And it only showed up when
it needed to warn Maya that
danger was coming.
That was kind of cool.
Emotional woodpecker.
There it is.
Woodpecker's been a woodpecker.
Yeah, that is very cool.
That is very cool.
So episode one was called Chaffa,
which the ability that
Chaffa bestowed upon Echo was ferocity.
And she's the original
That rescued her people from
the fallen cave in the very
first flashback episode
that we get in episode one,
which flashbacks played an
integral part in all five episodes.
All five episodes had its
own little flashback
sequence that gave us something.
So.
That was played by Julia Jones.
Not sure if she's Native American or not,
but.
It was a very cool scene.
I actually thought this was
going to be Kohori.
At first, I'm like, wow,
they really prepped us with what if,
and then not so much.
No,
I was in the same boat as you in that
first episode.
I really thought, I'm like, wait,
didn't I just see this?
I'm like, damn,
they're just really going
to just drop her in what if,
and then like, bam, echoes.
Here we go.
I also like the fact that it
wasn't too long of a flashback either.
I think it was enough to
make you intrigued, but it didn't drag
on like sometimes with
flashbacks there they take
up like half the episode
you mean like in episode
you know well you know that
was important though that
that flashback was
important though that 100
was it hasn't 100 important
if I mean it makes sense if
you're gonna take half the
episode at least be
important it's not like
boba fett it still stings hot take
I'm glad you finally, like,
there's only one person we
know that likes that show.
And it's neither of us.
Yeah.
But I love Star Wars, though, obviously.
My bread and butter.
Oh, yeah.
Star Wars, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
But Book of Boba Fett, though.
Coming down the road from Star Wars,
for sure.
You know,
I'm thankful that Echo went the
route they did with the
flashbacks and not the Boba Fett route.
That's my take on that.
We don't say Boba Fett on this show.
i didn't so let's let's I
know we're going to be
cutting it close on time so
let's let's roll this
through the episodes real
quick uh what was y'all's
favorite thing from episode
one outside of that really
cool opening flashback sequence oh man
I'm asking the hard questions.
You are.
I actually, you know, I liked seeing,
you know,
kind of the experiencing like
young Maya's, you know,
the challenges she had growing up,
you know, as being alone as a deaf child.
Like, I think you really...
opened, you know,
it really opened the door
in terms of understanding
why she connected with
Kingpin the way that she did.
And the fact that Kingpin
could come across as being very paternal,
you know, it was a very,
I liked the insight into
the relationship dynamic
between the two of them to where
you know, it,
it was so much more impactful
when she shot him at that point,
because you had that backstory.
And I thought that was really,
and of course,
both actors were tremendous in these,
you know, the roles, child Maya,
all three, I should say child Maya and,
you know, of course, you know, you know,
Vincent Donfro is Kingpin, you know,
Lockwood Cox, they were,
they were fantastic.
And I think that that,
that was something that it
could have just been, Oh, look, you know,
she shot Kingpin.
Cool.
It really delivered an emotional punch,
getting that,
getting that backstory and
being in her shoes.
Imagine like how much more
it took for her to pull
that trigger though.
Cause that is essentially
the guy that raised her.
So.
Yeah, I agree.
Because, I mean, like I said,
I've watched Hawkeye a lot recently.
And if you just watch it based off that,
it's a cool, shocking moment.
But it means more now that
you've seen it in Echo.
Absolutely.
What do you think, Jeff?
For me, the fight scene with Daredevil,
for me,
is what really... The opening scene,
and then the fight with Daredevil,
and then ultimately seeing
her squeeze that trigger.
You could tell she was
pained pulling the trigger
when she did it.
But also, it was kind of like... Yeah.
That's what sits this whole
thing in motion.
And it also sits in motion
what's going to happen in... You know,
when Daredevil opens up as well.
So, I mean... So, I mean... Yeah,
that was...
not my favorite fight scene
in the show though I'll
tell you no it's really not
but it was getting to see
daredevil again after a
while off screen outside of
she-hulk I was like yeah
he's back he's back I don't
know he was back when he
did the walk of shame I'll
be honest with you I felt
very that's very matt that
is very matt murdoch so episode two
I was also waiting for Amanda.
I was like, just like,
I'm waiting for an Amanda
thirst trap joke in there.
You know, I, I was already, you know,
miles away.
Well, I mean,
I was thinking about that moment.
I was like, he was right across from me.
Hot little short King.
He was in real life right across from me.
I was in line to get my
picture in full cosplay,
my Ahsoka cosplay with
Rosario Dawson and Ashley
Eckstein with my son.
And all of a sudden,
just a curtain pops open
and I just hear Charlie Cox
a few feet in front of me just going, oh,
this is really what's
everybody in line here for?
And people were telling him and he's like,
oh, you look great in cosplay.
Of course, here I come with my phone.
I'm just like,
Thank you.
Full Irish accent, I'm sure, too.
Oh, yeah.
That only adds like three points, right?
Exactly.
It was just only three.
Only three.
His height alone was enough for me.
So I was like, I'm pretty sure.
I was like,
I'm pretty sure he's about the
same height as my little
short king at home.
I now have a basis for
everything I need to know.
So I'm just killing Bill over there.
And this is what I,
this is why I'm the co-host
of the socially distance
because I entertain Bill so much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm dead.
I'm deceased.
I've seen it and it was
running pretty fast.
strategy to Maya.
He's terrible too, so it's not just me.
It's not just me.
In this one,
we get the flashback where
they're in the Choctaw
settlement in Alabama,
which is if you ever drove
through Alabama,
you can actually see Indian
mounds all over the state.
So it was really cool to see that.
And they're playing
stickball instead of going
to war with each other and
whoever loses leaves town.
So
what did y'all think of
episode two like what
though like what was the
one scene in episode two
that was like that's that's
the scene right there oh
man um I just love this we
get biscuits and I'm happy
with that I love biscuits
can't forget billy jack
Exactly, exactly.
The train scene was really neat,
because you really feel
like she was in danger,
which her leg gets crushed.
I did not, I was like,
I wasn't expecting it to
get damaged the way that it was.
And I was like, oh, like, I'm like, okay,
she's legit, like...
in in trouble here and I was
actually really anxious for
a minute there but I
thought that was you know I
was like way to go good
cousin good cousin for
helping her out you know
yeah I was like oh he is
not oh I was like oh no
poor biscuits don't go home man you know
Do what you need to do with that truck.
Don't go home.
Don't let Chula see it.
But, you know,
I thought the train scene
was really neat.
I also really liked getting
a sense of her family dynamics.
You know,
I thought the storytelling was really,
again,
continued to be really well done here.
And it just, you know, again...
I'm like, Biscuits was so great.
I love Biscuits.
He's great, man.
He's so great.
Everybody should have a
cousin like Biscuits in their family.
Everybody does have a cousin
like Biscuits in their family.
If you don't know who that is,
it could be you.
This is, yeah.
I can see that Bill being
definitely the Biscuits.
That's me.
For me, the best part was the... Oh,
that's cool.
I didn't know that.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I...
I remember that my favorite
part is the fact we get the
reveal of it just like when they're like,
oh, what did you steal?
And she's like, I didn't steal anything.
They're like, what?
And it's just like,
let's blow up Kingpin's armory.
And that's really cool.
It's it shows you the strategy.
It's already there.
And so we're already who's biscuits.
He's he's the cousin.
He's a cousin.
And he's he's one of the
great Marvel characters of all time.
he's like on par with Lucky
the Pizza Dog but not quite
there in my opinion but
it's it just shows like we
were talking about strategy
and this is the whole thing
with the scene in the
beginning it really ties
well at the end and it
shows you that Maya is
she's not just a weapon as
Hawkeye was saying we're
both being used as weapons
she's super super smart so
I really love that part of it
I thought it was just fun watching her.
I mean, she's just so sharp.
She's just like,
here's at the general store,
here's what you need to put
together this bomb.
You know, and it's just like,
it's kind of crazy.
But he didn't know you were
buying stuff to make a bomb.
No, he had no clue.
I think if any of us had gone,
I would have been like,
That's a lot of random stuff.
And I don't think I would
have put it together.
Clearly I'm the biscuits here.
So it's just like,
I wouldn't have put it together.
And... Guys, clearly I'm the biscuits.
Clearly I'm the biscuits here.
I would have had no clue
either that I was buying
stuff to build a bomb.
But just the fact that she
just has that kind of
uncanny knowledge and just
that survival mechanism
that comes from that
training that she's had and everything.
It's just that...
you know,
just that kind of crazy knowledge
off the top of your head.
Like I can, but I have the survival just,
I think it's just a really
another neat way to show her home,
her ability to survive
using whatever's around in
her environment,
just even like with the
skating rink kind of thing.
And in the next, you know, she was able to,
to use the pieces from the skates and,
To make a gun?
To make a gun.
But those little nuances are
so cool to see.
And I think they're very
underrated because it's
like not everybody can do that.
Not everybody has that
survival instinct to look
at literally something like, oh, hey,
there's a lamp.
Can I make a weapon out of a lamp?
What kind of resource can I
make out of it or something?
Or like,
I've got a lamp and like this or
this or around me.
And she manages to pull it off.
And I think this was a cool little...
here's what's at the random
general store or at the you
know the thrift shop here's a bomb
Or grandpa's thrift store.
Grandpa's pawn shop.
It's not saying to go do
that for everybody out there,
but it's just the ability
of like... I know,
but just the innate ability
to adapt and clearly think
through and come up with a
plan on the fly.
It's cool to see somebody's
mind work in that way.
I agree.
My biggest ones was Roger Poore.
was mentioned,
which is an island off of
Singapore that Wolverine visits.
They're known for bootleg
stuff and other nefarious deeds.
Falcon and the Winter
Soldier had an episode there.
They actually went there.
They actually show the
island and everything.
The scene where she gets her
leg stuck is the first time
that she uses her powers.
She couldn't figure out what
had just happened.
How did I get my leg out?
And the other one that I
want to point out was the
crate that she put the bomb in.
D9X was Daredevil issue 9, 1999.
Her first appearance in Daredevil.
Ha!
Look at that.
Very cool.
so episode three I know
we're going fast and I
promised us we would be out
of here at an appropriate
time and so far we're doing
okay we're a little behind
but we're not doing too bad
tonight when we talk oh
yeah and we go off on we we
go on tangents a lot they
just come up they just come
up it's fun it does and it
but it works it works so
episode three was I'm
probably gonna was too
close or tuck low who
offers her cunning abilities
And the flashback scene we
get in here is the silent film, which was,
you know,
they introduced a group of
Native police called the Light Horsemen,
which I thought was one of
the coolest flashbacks we got.
Yeah.
I thought that was,
and I love those old silent films.
So, like, that was, like,
my favorite episode.
Like, that was the flashback,
the name of the episode, and then.
so and then we get the
roller rink scene in this
episode what y'all think
this is the this is a
definitive scene this is
the hallway fight scene in
daredevil this is like that
moment you're gonna go back to first off
You want to warm my heart,
you're going to play some Rob Zombie.
Yes.
Yeah.
And they picked Dragula.
I was like, oh, some shit is going down.
Yeah.
And they just play it like
it's coming through,
bleeding through the walls,
which is really cool.
Playing with sound,
which they did beautifully
throughout the series.
And that fight scene is the
reason you get a TVMA, dude,
because like.
she fucked some dudes up in
the worst possible way.
And I was here for that.
And I think that's,
you needed that to ground
this series in that
spotlight mantra into that
daredevil street levels thing.
So, and I think you needed that.
And,
but I also don't think it was a
daredevil ripoff.
It was, this is echo.
This is her show.
And this is what she does.
And we're all like, fuck.
Yes.
This is why,
this is why I paid a ticket to see this.
And in a hell of an interview,
I'll tell you that.
I was once warned when I interviewed him.
They're like, do not talk about movies.
You should only talk about music.
I was like, why is that?
And they're like,
because he will only talk about movies.
So I'm like, all right.
Great concert, by the way.
Yeah, one of the few I've ever shot.
And I accidentally got a few
good pictures.
Hey, there you go.
But yeah, that scene was just so iconic.
I really feel like it really
established her as a badass
in her own right.
Just straight up, just the brutality,
the ruthlessness.
It was like, hell yeah.
It's not something that...
you see so much like,
I feel like Marvel
sometimes pulls back at
least Marvel Disney,
I should say pulls back.
No,
but I feel like for some of the female
characters and heroes,
they do pull back even though yes,
they like, you know, they kick ass.
It's just,
you don't see the level of just
gritty violence that you do here.
And it was so cool to just let the,
just see that they just let
her just go at it.
And again, I,
The cool part was watching
that whole weapon from the skate.
That was cool.
Made with ball bearings and
a truck off the bottom of the skate.
I was like, that is legit.
But it's like, you don't mess with Echo,
man.
I was like, well,
if I ever get into a fight,
I'm calling her.
It was so well done.
And really, I think,
just kicked into gear who
she is and the fact that
she's holding back.
She could be capable of so
much more destruction.
And her power is insane.
And so you have that raw
ability on top of now you
add superhero powers to it.
It's pretty terrifying.
and cool and that just that
internal rage that she's
been holding and all of a
sudden it's like you know
click and it's on and
everybody's done and this
is what really confused her
is when the phone call came
and they were going to get
to live so then that's when
she's like wait how in the
hell did that just happen
And of course, her uncle's like,
there's only one person
that makes that phone call
for us not to be dead right now.
And that's when I think it
really dawned on her that
she didn't kill Kingpin in that episode.
So that to me was like my
one moment in that episode
where I was like, oh, damn.
kingpin still kicking they
should never have showed
him earlier though they
should have left it yeah
because they show him a few
times they show him once
too often and I think it
deadened it a little bit
for me but it's such a
kingpin mood to be like no
I'll do it and you're like
okay we get it here you're
gonna take care of this
game because that's what he
does man that he always
does this weird shit really
like just let him do it like
He had the whole scene with Punisher.
He's just like, hey, you survived.
I guess I can work with you.
And it's kind of the thing.
He's like, all right, you survived this.
You can be part of my team now.
Which is so on brand for Kingpin.
This is true.
If you have the opportunity to kill him,
you're just like, you know what?
If you can survive that,
I got a spot for you right here.
The lesson here, always double tap.
Finish your job.
Make sure you've finished your job.
So many ways that can go.
Politely.
Politely.
Respectfully.
Yes.
In a gentlemanly manner.
So with that, let's keep it rolling.
We're on a roll.
Episode four, Taloa,
which I really like this name.
Until it gives her the gift of love.
And in this flashback.
It takes place in 2008.
When Kingpin.
Beats the ice cream vendor.
To death.
And then.
So this shows.
Like that one scene alone.
Shows that he was in power.
And doing his thing.
Long before there was ever an Iron Man.
And long before.
The Avengers ever assembled.
The Kingpin was doing his thing.
and really running the show
even though he's not seen
as a threat which he should
have been yeah it's funny
how that all comes together
where it's just like
kingpin's was just running
this running the city and
no one really did anything
but it's just like exactly
I i agree with this hot take I don't
ish ish like I i I i um I
want I want yeah I i think
kingpin showing up making
the call and then him
having the the the scene
where they cut where they
pan over and it's dead
silent and there is this
hulking mass of a human
being just standing there
like he is a monster
and I thought that was
perfect that's why they
gave too much away of him
for him if you just had the
phone call and you get and
then it just like you you
cut back a little bit on
him and flashback
And then it's just like, Hey man,
I'm here now.
I'm Frankenstein's monster
because I'm back.
And then there you go.
I think that works a lot better.
And I think you needed him
there to be pissed off.
I think you needed him there
to get healed.
And I think you needed him
to be like New York, you know,
just like that's what I
became at this point.
It's just like, he,
he's going to run for mayor of New York.
So, I mean, I think you needed,
I think you needed him there.
Yeah.
I think you did, but like you said, Bill,
less is more.
I think that scene could
have been trimmed.
I agree with you.
That scene could have been
trimmed with him being kind
of just showing up out of nowhere,
kind of big and hulking.
I think, yes,
you did need the emotional
moment that we're talking
about with the hammer,
the story of the hammer.
You did need that.
My takeaway from this is the
story with the hammer and
him showing it to her.
and then promise her her own
empire if she comes home.
It's also a different Hammer.
A lot of people got mad about that,
and I was like, Hammer.
Listen, Marvel,
you want to make it up to me,
bring Justin Hammer back in live action.
Yes, there you go.
Live action.
I need Sam Rockwell.
That is definitely a difference,
but still.
My favorite scene here in
this whole episode is the
kitchen confrontation.
Marvel sometimes knows how
to hit you right in the heart.
And that's one of them.
And like, it is,
you're seeing Maya and the
beautiful thing about the
American sign language of
it all is you're getting
like almost a triple
performance because Maya is
saying the words, which is also signing.
And there's also a
physicality to the whole thing.
So it's like so much more impactful to me,
someone who does not see
American sign language in
his life as that often, they just,
they just,
really grabbed me and it
made it more of an
emotional um an emotional
journey and I'm I'm here
for that because it's it
was just such a beautiful
scene like it's tragic and
it's sad but it's beautiful
that these two women are
really finally talking and
getting everything out and
eventually it does resolve
stuff but that felt like a
real family drama a real
human moment it's not just like
A Norse god talking about
losing his parents, which is sad.
But he's also Thor.
This is an everyday human
being who lost her mom.
But I'm saying her mom died
in a car accident.
And that's something that
happens every day in the world.
Obviously,
we then found out the brakes
were cut by Kingpin, blah, blah, blah.
But at that moment, it's just like,
and then the resentment from the grandma,
that's all real.
That's not comic book.
That's real life.
And that's what made this series so great.
And that was my one scene,
was that scene in the
kitchen between Maya and
her grandma that really was like,
we needed that scene.
We did.
We did.
I felt like it was a good
counterbalance to the Maya
that we saw in the last episode,
the angry, you know, killer instinct,
ruthless Maya.
This was a vulnerable Maya.
This really,
I feel like kind of brought
her character full circle in that,
you know,
she's not just someone who's
full of rage.
There's a reason.
And there's,
there's a lot of hurt and a lot of,
you know,
there's a lot of pain in her and,
And even hearing from Chula about,
you know, the birth of her daughter,
that was, you know, it was an interesting,
it was a different perspective.
And it really put into play just, you know,
it's not only just Maya who's lost family,
but it is her family also
that is suffering.
Like her grandmother lost her daughter.
And I think to be able to
have that explanation about
how hard Chula worked to bring her
um taloa into the world you
know they they were able to
bond over that you know
it's it's you know both of
them had a different
relationship with taloa
And both of them were able
to unite and heal, you know,
and they share the same loss.
And so, you know, Bill, like to your point,
you know,
the sign language and the
intensity of the body
movements and the language and just,
you know, even like watching,
just watching them, like I cried.
I cried because you just were, you know,
it really double-layered.
Yeah, it double-layered the impact,
like you said.
Copy and paste it.
Yeah, that was one of those moments.
It's not the saddest moment, though,
for me.
No,
but it was one of those where you're like,
you find yourself.
I'm good.
I don't know what y'all talking about.
Somebody's cutting onions in the kitchen.
Let's not talk about the End of Guardians.
How I embarrassed myself was
laughing in the movie theaters.
But yeah, that happened.
Because the scene in the
finale with the mom in the workshop
That's the one.
Oh, that one must be.
Let's do that.
Let's hit episode five.
So episode five is actually
named after Maya.
And we get the flashback to
when she's a kid and she
kills the woodpecker.
And then her mom teaches her like, hey,
we don't do that.
We don't hurt living things,
which is a sole contrast to
what she grew up to become.
But then she uses her
healing powers to bring the bird back.
Which...
that was another one of
those like emotional scenes
you see between her and her
mom and her going through
her growth and really healing herself,
whether she's realizing it or not.
So what'd y'all think?
Let's get, let's hear it.
Let's roll episode five.
Oh man.
I'm with Bill.
The mom,
the scene with her mom just messed me up.
Yeah.
Oh, it was so good.
Episodes where you get a
tear jerking scene and you're like, damn,
why they got to do me like that?
But it was so necessary.
It needed for Maya to get
that final bit of closure,
to get that catharsis,
to actually leave the
streets behind and embrace
who she is and then truly
accept the gift from her ancestry.
And I think that's what you
see every woman in those
things and those flashbacks were.
It was their time to accept their power.
And I think it's pretty rad.
And sometimes you got to go
through that passing of the torch,
especially since all the
power ran through the women
of the family.
We did not see her dad in a
flashback anyway.
Right.
We saw her mom,
and so she had to pass it down to her.
So it was like that passing
of the torch moment that
needed to happen.
And you often don't see that
in superhero or comic book-based things.
It's always the dad,
whether he's handing it
down to the daughter or the son.
But the mom, that's really important.
It's one of those tropes that they flipped,
and it worked perfectly.
Well, I mean,
except for Superman and Batman.
But I mean, and also...
Their name is Martha too.
Our Batman by the numbers
podcast was almost called
Martha of the podcast.
That would have worked so well though.
Yeah.
So, yeah, but it meant, I tell you,
it's like you needed to go
through it and we all
needed to go through it.
But again, like I said,
Amanda and I said earlier, it was,
you know,
the marble of it in the end kind
of hurt a little bit, but man,
suspense built up through
the powwow scene through
the drums was pretty...
When she comes in with the dancers,
I was like, oh, damn.
She's coming in right in
front of their faces,
and they don't even see her.
This is going to be good.
Well,
and for her to keep... What I've
loved throughout the series
are these... the nuances,
the attention to detail,
and the fact... And again, very subtle...
in a way but she's keeping
up with all of the the
powwow dancers and she
can't hear that's that like
to keep in step and to rely
on other senses to to keep
with the movement I grew up
with uncle and he was one
of the best dancers I ever
met in my life but it was
the vibrations and in the
music that allowed him to
be able to do that and I'll
always like I remember
As I got older,
I would go to the club and
pick him up because he
couldn't drive or anything.
So I'd literally drop him off, go to work,
pick him up when I would get off work.
And I would walk in and be like,
where the hell's my uncle?
And he'd be on the dance floor.
And I'm like, okay, I see your uncle.
Like, we got to go though.
I'm tired.
It's really cool because he
can actually sense everything.
the beats and the vibrations
and they know like what
stuff they need to be on.
And so, yeah.
I think I thought that was a beautiful,
it was a really neat
perspective because it, it is, you know,
you go from being able to hear to what,
to her point of view and
you really kind of get, I,
I feel like having those
moments helped you connect
with Maya more because you
got a taste of her world and,
And even just, you know,
kind of the other smaller things, such as,
you know,
like the scene with Chula and Scully,
where they kind of
reconcile a little bit.
That was a really sweet moment.
Oh, man.
The sexual tension between those two.
I was like, ooh.
Every meeting they had, it was there.
But in that last episode, it was like,
Jesus Christ, y'all get a room.
I know.
I was like, whoa.
I don't think he needed a room.
No.
He's got his own ball shop, man.
He's got a back room back there, I'm sure.
Graham Greene could do no wrong.
He is amazing.
He's so charming.
He's so charming.
I bet you he would love to hear that.
Hey, if he ever hears this,
he's one of those guys,
when he shows up in a movie,
he's going to be spot on.
Oh, I loved it.
I loved it.
That scene was,
and it was a nice way to
jump into the episode and
continue moving into it
because you know it's going
to get intense at the end.
So I think just having a
little bit of a moment
where there's a little bit
more of a positive energy coming,
because again,
you know there's quite a bit going on.
It's nice to see that nice
touch of healing continue.
But also didn't...
The only dude who gets
involved in anything is the uncle,
the one uncle, who owns a roller rink.
And he, like,
kills the guy in the most
comic way possible.
So, I'm like, I'm all right with that.
Oh, and Biscuits.
Biscuits murders everyone.
I was here for Biscuits all
the way through.
I'm there for Biscuits any day of the week,
especially if it's Thanksgiving.
But I was happy that character did it, so.
I know, that was so great.
Biscuits had his own moment
where it's just, that was awesome.
Biscuits doing Biscuits, man.
I loved it.
Like again,
I just treasure the Biscuits in
your lives, people.
That's all I have to say.
If you don't know who Biscuits is,
you're the Biscuits.
So this series,
like every other series before it though,
the character didn't get
her suit until the final episode.
So, I mean, Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
It was the last episode when he got it.
So, I mean,
this one followed that same trope that,
well,
we're not seeing her in her full
get-up until, like, episode five.
And we got that here, and we got it in,
like,
the most beautiful way possible with
her mom giving it to her.
Yeah.
So...
I feel like it was
appropriate because you've
been building the, the, the,
with the flashbacks, the narrative that,
you know, that this,
the telling the culture story and telling,
you know, how echo was passed to each.
It's just, it,
this was very appropriate in
that the story,
the flashback story and
narrative culminated in
such a beautiful way.
It did.
It really did.
So some of the, I've seen some after the,
The final battle scene takes place.
It was like Maya and her stunt double.
And they had actual face tattoos.
So all the face tattoos that
they were given,
I don't know if it was just
for the final battle or if
she was supposed to have them throughout.
Which is something that she
didn't have in the comic book anyway.
But there was pictures from
the final battle where they
had these face tattoos.
And they were edited out later.
So I thought that was
something really cool that they, I'm like,
that would have been kind of cool to see,
though, in that final battle with, like,
the traditional, like, you know,
face paint and that kind of stuff.
I'm like, yeah,
I think they missed a good moment there,
that they could have had
something really unique.
They could have, but then again, you know,
her most iconic is the handprint,
and so...
you know,
would you want to take away from that?
No.
And that's why I'm kind of glad they did.
Even though I was like,
I seen the pictures.
I was like, Oh damn, that's so bad.
It's a little bit of a hat on a hat.
You know, she's got the, she's got the,
the, the, the important thing was the,
the, the outfit.
It wasn't the other things.
And it was the outfit.
It was the powers.
Then you're going to add a
face paint tattoo.
It like, I think it's still just too much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
So one final note on this one.
When Maya uses the healing
powers on Kingpin, it echoes his past.
And it brings him to the craft wall,
to the painting that looked
like Vanessa's painting.
And that callback between
those two things that tied
really like the Daredevil
season and Echo season to
kind of together in that one little
brief moment with that
painting and the cracked wall.
So I thought that was a really cool little,
let's throw this nickel in
there and see how many
people pick up on this one.
So I thought that was a
really cool one to put in there.
Yeah, it was a great moment for sure.
I really think that it's
something that if you hadn't seen it,
it's so shocking to you.
And you're like, oh my God, what is this?
And you get it through the
noises and through the wall,
the hammer and all that stuff.
this dude googling I was
like that looks familiar
and then I just watched it
a year ago so I knew but
for those if you know it's
like if you know you know
and it wasn't a fan
servicey thing it was a
coldly earned moment
because that is his mind
palace it's not an empty
claire's it is actually his
childhood home uh where he
heard his parent his father
abusing his mother you know
and that's really hard
abuse his father that's for damn sure
He took a hammer to him.
Well, I mean, the guy was a dick.
So, I mean, I didn't feel too bad.
But a little patricide here and there.
Not advocating.
Only in comic books.
But yeah, I think it was perfect.
And then when we ended,
you can't ask for a better ending.
Oh, I know.
The ending was... So did you
recognize the reporter?
yeah no I didn't recognize
the reporter at all until I
read it somewhere I'm like
oh okay yeah that was my
thought I'm like the
reporter's familiar and
then I was like when I was
writing this I was like oh
damn that's why they're so
familiar so I thought that
was kind of one of those
another one of those
nickels like they went for
you're like oh yeah I like
when they do that stuff oh yeah for sure
But I mean, I love him running for mayor.
It's one of his big storylines.
I don't think Matt's going
to be the lieutenant mayor.
I don't think they're going
to go that route.
But man,
that leaves a lot of fertile
ground for them to work with.
So I think it's a great
place and it allows,
it gives leeway for Maya to come back.
Obviously, Matt's going to be involved.
And then you still have,
it's New York City.
you have all the defenders
and the punisher that's not
all you got up there I mean
that's that's a political
thing that's like sony and
contracts and uh but
there's plenty of
characters that live in new
york city that can easily
show up and do some damage
and I'm curious to see how
it all ties together I
don't know how this all
ties into a multiverse saga
do I know think they know
what's going to happen
There's some alterations.
Well,
does it need to tie into the
multiverse saga at this point?
I mean... No, it doesn't.
But it'd be kind of fucking
cool if it did.
I think that's how the answer is.
Who's going to be the next big bad?
Are they going to flush King
down the toilet and go
ahead and bring in Doctor Doom?
I mean,
we got a big bad right here with Kingpin.
which is so it's like the
whole battle world of it
all I think is the the
question is like this is
where everyone kind of like
all the multiverses collide
and here's where things
happen and man you know
daredevil is he was a huge
part of secret wars he's a
huge part of all the big
events and he hasn't been
so for him not to be
involved it could happen
kind of cool if he did like
imagine like just you know
matt murdoch and deadpool
just like fall through a
like a like a warp you know
a black hole and it's just
like all right we're here
let's let's do some things
you know and I kind of
think that's how battle you
know the secret wars is going to be
And so, yeah, let's throw them in.
I mean, not everyone has to go.
I guess I have my
reservations because of the way that that,
and I feel like this phase
has not been well executed.
I think if you had asked me
maybe earlier on with a
little bit more well-structured phases,
I would have been a little
bit better about like, okay, yeah,
like that'd be cool to incorporate,
you know,
Kingpin in this and this kind of
this more street level, you know,
kind of style of show we're
getting here and kind of series.
I think I'm like, I just,
I just worry that unless
the next phase is stronger
in terms of cohesiveness
and how it's all coming
together and that it moves
the story that the,
that the daredevil franchise, if you will,
would become just as disjointed.
So that's kind of my only like, you know,
cause the way it is right now, it's,
it's amazing.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
It's a great setup so far.
Again, they've dropped in.
Here are some of the shows
that are the Netflix shows
that are part of the canon now.
I think you've got this cool
little world building
happening and it's just I
hope that it continues to
be a strong build versus
again kind of where we've
been with this phase where
you have all these
different running pieces
but they have not fully
come together like you would hope.
Like what we've been used to
in other Marvel phases.
yeah but the way they're
piecing it together though
is starting to make sense
and it's you're starting to
see those pieces go
together the way that at
the end of the phase though
nearly that's the hard part
to wait for it but it's at
least hopefully they know
what the hell they're doing
and it's going to fall into
place unlike some of the
other stuff we've seen bill's favorite
Which one?
Secret Invasion.
Oh, man.
I don't hate it as much as Alex.
Secret Wars took place
behind Secret Invasion in the comic book.
It happened concurrently.
That's why you were always
seeing people disappearing
and coming back and disappearing again.
It was a whole thing.
It was a mess.
Even for the comic books to keep up with.
With that, guys,
final shots and thoughts
before we close it down.
uh echo's great uh go back
and watch it tell you and
tell your friends I mean
like this was the one like
everyone's down on marvel
everyone's like it's over
brother uh it's not uh this
one got their act together
and and I think this is I
believe this is the
beginning of uh a new era
and uh some really cool
stuff so go check it out I
gave it a high rating but
amanda you are much higher than
Yeah,
I really... This is how you tell a
story in five episodes.
The pacing of the episodes was great.
Although, yes,
we had the marvel of it all initially.
But once the story went, it went.
And we saw this issue with a
lot of other Marvel shows.
You know,
with the exception of Wanda and Loki...
you know I i feel like the
storytelling was either too
long or just you know the
the episodes the the
episodes were too short you
know just that the pacing
of stories was not very
consistent and here
beautifully done um you
have a great narrative with
the you know great build
for a character you know oh
thank you black mac thank
you for for for your
comments and everything
it's been it's been an
awesome experience so
better thank you it does
and um you appreciate your support and
Yeah.
Just, you know, the,
the cinematography was beautiful.
The music was on point.
You know, I, I, you know,
you had so many different moving pieces,
but they all came together.
You had the family story,
you had her backstory,
you had her kick-ass moments and,
You know, I thought for five episodes,
this was a very, very strong series.
And this is the series that
people were waiting for.
If you loved Wanda, if you loved Loki,
you were like,
I needed something very intense.
This was great.
I very much enjoyed it.
And it made me excited about
Daredevil because I was
nervous with everything
you're hearing coming out about it.
This made me feel better.
If...
This is even a fraction of
how great Daredevil is going to be.
I'm here for it.
I'm with you.
For me,
it was one of those to sum this
whole thing up.
It got flack that it didn't deserve.
I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed it.
I know people were complaining, well,
it's a spotlight series.
Other people only got an hour.
They're giving her five episodes.
But it's five episodes that worked.
And if each episode played
off the next one and into the next one.
So for me, I was like, this is it for me.
I'm like, this is how it should be done.
It's short.
It's sweet.
You can watch it in a day,
but it all flows beautifully together.
And it's got me excited again for Marvel.
That was my biggest thing.
It has me excited again for Marvel,
which lucky season two did as well.
Yeah.
Oh,
But this is the one where it
didn't have the established
character in the lead, like Loki.
So this is why they needed it to work.
It was an original property.
Yeah, you had Kingpin, you had Daredevil.
But we were going to see if
this character can do it, and it did.
So with that, Bill and Amanda, both of you,
tell us where we can find
y'all and what days we can find y'all.
Amanda, why don't you start us out?
All right.
Well, of course,
I know Bill has got quite a
bit to close this out on.
So I like to leave him.
He just has half the
openings and half the endings.
I just do the business end, man.
I just do the business end.
You do really good openings and closings.
So I'm like,
I can't even match half the
Bill energy here.
So it's like,
you have to settle for me first,
and then you get the good part, right?
That's the secret.
Not anymore,
but it's mostly just like half
a Coke Zero and just a
whole lot of prayers.
It's like caffeine and prayers that, yeah,
that's there it is.
There it is.
But, um, for me,
you can find me at a Mandalorian on, uh,
Instagram and threads and
at Reznor's chick on X. Yes.
I am a huge Nine Inch Nails fan.
So that's where my handle comes from.
Nine Inch Nails stand forever.
Um, and of course,
I'm one of the co-hosts of
the Socially Distanced
podcast along with Bill.
You can check us out every
Friday on all streaming platforms.
So we talk about everything,
probably everything on
Disney Plus for sure.
We're definitely going to diversify too.
We're diving into the Netflix realm,
which we did recently with Rebel Moon,
and that was an experience.
That was an experience.
That's a healthy heaping of
butt soup right there, man.
There it is.
That was a good episode, though.
Yeah, we definitely enjoyed it.
But we talk about, you know,
different Marvel shows, Star Wars,
different movies that are out.
You know,
we dive into revisiting a lot of
different content.
You know,
we're looking at revisiting The
Matrix this year because
it's 25 years old.
I can't.
I'm not ready for that.
To acknowledge that that.
is even that old but anyway
remind me of my mortality
right um but yeah we we
have just a cavalcade of
fun guests and it's just is
a lot of fun there's always
something random that
happens that happens
starting in 2020 you have to cover raw
no thanks maybe maybe the
premiere I don't know bill
might uh bill's got quite a
bit to say about wwe so go
go watch us on the bob
culture podcast I was
fairly positive about it I
surprisingly surprisingly
surprisingly normally you
have at least a connection
but we got original singing
So, you know,
you got the conniption on the match.
This is true.
This is true.
So go back and check that out.
We were both on that here yesterday.
And yeah, it was a lot of fun.
And the other podcast that
I'm a co-host for is Anime
Pop with my co-host Josh Czarnecki.
And that is available on the
PopRank TV feed.
And we cover every month the
most popular anime that's happening.
What's happening in the
world of the news in terms of anime.
And then also
recommendations from our
different guests.
So, yeah, Black Mac.
You definitely should check
out our Matrix episode.
We're going to make our other host, Al,
who's had to step back a little bit.
He's never watched it.
He owns it on DVD.
He's never watched it,
so we're going to make him watch it.
So, yeah.
That is our job, too.
It is.
Must watch.
So, Bill.
Oh, as for me, I am Bill Bodkin,
editor-in-chief of ThePopBreak.com.
We've been doing this 15
years this September.
Check us out every single day.
Film, music, television, pro wrestling,
anime, comic books, digital trends.
We're doing it all.
We've got articles.
We've got podcasts.
We're covering concerts.
I think we're at a concert right now.
We're covering that.
If I'm not there, maybe, no,
it's Dinosaur Jr.
I'm definitely not there.
So we have a whole bunch of great stuff.
Check out Socially Distanced
every single Friday.
Amanda's podcast, Anime Pop,
is on the Pop Break TV feed, like I said,
at the top of the show.
I'm also one of the
panelists on tv break which
is our our monthly look
into the world of
television I am the bill
and the bill versus the mcu
podcast which is our marvel
first watch for me and
rewatch my co-host alex
that's over on pop break
today but most importantly
follow us on all forms of
social media at the pop
break except for youtube
we're at pop break.com all
spelt out you're a big wrestling fan
You could check out Timeless
Tony Storm calling out Wendy Richter,
which is still one of my favorite things.
Thousands of people have found it.
So be one of the many who have.
And if you must follow me on Twitter,
I am at Bodkin Rights.
So thank you for having us, Jeff.
Thank you for giving us
clearance to be on the USDN.
And we look forward to
returning both as a dynamic tag team.
We might not be the flocking brawlers,
but God damn it,
we'll put up a good fight.
Go follow Brandon Weiss and
Casey Blackrose somewhere
on the World Wide Web.
Casey, follow Amanda.
She posts plenty of his content there.
They don't have a shared
Instagram account.
I'm telling you,
don't have a shared Instagram account.
It feels that way.
It feels that way.
Well, actually, we do.
We actually have a shared couples cosplay,
but we cosplay together,
so that's part of it.
A couple that cosplay
together stays together.
yeah well I told my wife
that she'd be like get the
out of here so for bill
except for bill except for
bill everybody I want to
thank everybody for tuning
in to our episode on marvel
echo watch the usdn page
for more updates I'm going
to be taking next week off
because I got a lot of
stuff to put together I got
an episode edit from last
week I got this episode so
I'm going to take some time
put together some reels
drop some episodes on the spotify
and do all that
behind-the-scenes work that
make podcasting so much fun.
Once again,
a big thank you to Bill and
Amanda and the crew from
Socially Distanced and the Pop Break.
As always, I want feedback,
y'all guys out there.
Leave us some feedback in
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