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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:01.55)
Evoke's board has recommended that shareholders approve a takeover offer from Bally's Intralot after it secured a marginal improvement of two pence per share on Bally's original bid, taking the deal to a valuation of £243 million. A £900 million private credit facility will be used to help refinance the combine group's debt burden
of approximately 3.4 billion. Now comes the tricky part, as Balliz Intralot must revitalise and embattled evoke, particularly its flagship UK asset, William Hill, which faces significant regulatory and commercial headwinds from H2 onwards. On paper, the &A appears logical. But reality in the gambling sector always bites back. So welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of positionless marketing.
and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner and today I'm joined by our editor at large Ted Menmure to dissect all things evoke. Ted, it's a big news day, how's things?
Ted (01:45.01)
Very well, Charlie, glad to be part of the podcast of My Big Fat Anglo-Greek &A. I've been thinking about that one all morning. That's the best I can come up with,
Charlie Horner (01:51.566)
Brilliant. Well, we've... Yeah, yeah...
Charlie Horner (02:04.735)
Yeah, absolutely. That's been one in the works for a while, I think. We've spoken about this deal a couple of times on the podcast in the last couple of months, but it's official now. No more extensions. Evoke has decided to go ahead and accept the Ballets Intro Lot deal. First of all, just your initial reaction.
Ted (02:09.009)
Mm-hmm.
Ted (02:25.703)
Okay, so as he mentioned, we've been tracking this deal for a number of months and come this morning, Evoke gets its marginal upgrade on price to 240 million. But I think the definitive here is on the debt being rearranged via a 900 million pound credit line being granted by Oak Tree Capital. That will suit kind of initial concerns. But look, with that debt standing at plus three billion.
the anxieties will remain and they must be answered for a long time stability. Now I'm going to keep on thinking about the pitch and I think the pitch to market here is that these are two long established firms with histories and scars to bear. But I think what
the management, the governance of both PLCs is saying is that this is the start of a new enterprise and that this is a unique combination. Like, yes, these are legacy brands being joined up, but the structure is very different from what we're seeing from others.
Charlie Horner (03:33.878)
Yeah, I'm really intrigued by this pitch because on the surface of things you have two separate businesses, both of which have had their struggles. know about Evoke's struggles, we've documented them quite extensively on the podcast. And then Ballet's Intralot, a new entity sort of born out of two brands that have also had their struggles and scars over last few years.
Ted (03:42.492)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (04:02.585)
It's all well and good that Dealmakers pitched this as a new opportunity and I guess, a bit of a fresh surface, but where is the faith? Where's the actual concrete evidence for this pitch?
Ted (04:09.938)
Yeah.
Ted (04:18.824)
Well, I mean, first of all, I think one of the things that they're pitching here is that it is kind of this got a Greek Anglo combination and that alone is very unique. And the thing is that we're to get more onto that as which kind of Robinson Reeves explained in the second half in his call to media. Look, no one denies that this is a risky combination. And from the off...
I think we're gonna see analysts probe wherever they can, especially on how they revitalize brands and assets, and also how they will restructure this company, what assets can be sold down the line.
The other kind of major part here is the integration of tech and you know, we're talking about kind of long standing partnerships here with Canby, OpenBec, GameSys and Playtech. So what is the kind of like the principle technology architecture and mold of this group going forward? In terms of questions of the faith, yeah. And I think this really comes down to some extent in the UK and in particular,
that everyone's here in 2016 is on the same boat. And I think that if you're taking it from kind Bally's Interactive, it's just saying, look, we're making our bold play first, right? And we're going up against the headwinds and this is how we're gonna kind of navigate the market with a bigger kind of fleet.
And at the same time, I think that, you know, if you look at these headwinds, especially with remote gambling taxes, compliance, and just the competitive structure of the UK, these are questions that each PLC is starting to and will have to kind of answer in the coming years to return back to growth in 2028.
Charlie Horner (06:09.655)
Yeah, it's certainly a ball play considering those headwinds and it seemed like Ballad Intralight just running straight into those headwinds. And it could be the first major dominator fall of many in terms of a complete reshaping of the UK. Maybe we'll dive into that a little bit more later. But I think one of the big news lines of this whole story...
Ted (06:26.224)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (06:34.055)
It's just that sheer amount of debt that's gonna be loaded onto this entity once it's combined. You know, we know Evoke has been debt laden for a while, Bally's Intralot also, you know, think upwards of a billion pounds worth of debt itself. So what's the plan to tackle that? You mentioned a credit facility with Oak Tree Capital. Maybe you could give us a bit more detail on that and...
Ted (06:41.383)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (07:01.325)
How do you answer some of the skeptics from a depth perspective?
Ted (07:06.247)
Well, again, I mean, I don't think that was kind of answered by by the PR, right? We know that that debt is going to be stretched from 3.6 billion. It is sued by a 900 million pound private credit line that will be used for the company in the initial kind of years. Look, if you're an analyst here, you go down and you look at kind of
Exactly, you're gonna zone in and come back debt it beats the ratio and how that will be factored in In the long term running of a business, you know, what rate are they gonna be using that's that right and that's coming up against the upcoming headwind of RGD Taking in kind of increasing to 40 % So even in the mass that they still presents you've got to kind of take that in with a bit of skepticism However, this is returning back to everyone or every PLC is on the same platform in the UK now I think
that what the management is looking at is kind of a long-term play on debt as in if they beat earnings expectations and perform better especially kind of on profit and cost controls right I think that that gives them a better platform to renegotiate their debt long term.
And again, I think that even, you know, the backing of Oak Tree at 900 million with this credit line is kind of witnessed, seen as kind of a huge, huge positive as they look, they can get trust from capital markets, right? That's the first step. Come back to us in 2027 when if we go, if we harness these initial kind of cuts very well, we could have the best platform for growth come in 2028. Again, and I've got to kind of say to the audience,
they're not the only company in debt in the UK right. We've seen this with Flutter, we've seen this with Entain, everyone is answering these questions they're just at kind of different levels or different anxieties.
Charlie Horner (08:45.313)
Mm.
Charlie Horner (08:56.084)
Yeah, sure. mean, 3.6 billion of debt is significant, but yeah, we should say that actually, debt in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just how you can manage to pay that back and convince people that you can. And I guess with that 900 million credit facility, that's one of those questions answered. Looking at the deal...
you know, put the deal to one side, Ted. Do we have a clearer picture about what the balees evoke structure will look like both in the UK and further afield abroad?
Ted (09:39.528)
Yes, mean one of the things that's clear is that leadership is trying to pitch this as a global enterprise. Not just this fixation with how they're going to revitalise William Hill. And I think one of the things that Robson Reeves said on the media call was that, look, he has a very, very positive view on Spain and Italy.
and it's, you know, it's credentials for growth and to add to the bottom line. Also that in William Hill, he understands that, yes, this is a project that has kind of, you know, that did not integrate well with the triple eight. However, they're going to kind of reapply kind of fresh thinking of how do you kind of revitalize its platforms? What does it need? And that he also views that William Hill has just been trapped in this
kind of profile where it's just viewed as an online sports betting brand. It hasn't been able to develop its online casino to the best of its abilities. And also one that's competitive, not just against the PLC ranks, but kind of the mid-tier ranks that are, you know, that have taken kind of market share. It needs, I mean, one of the things here is that it's clear, that it needs to stop William Hills bleeding to competitors.
Charlie Horner (10:57.964)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you could say that William Hill's been somewhat of a problem child over the last few years, know, with the amount of owners that it's had over the years, you know. So let's see, how long do you think this is gonna play out for, this sort of honeymoon, if you like? Because it has been a bit of a challenge over the years. What do you make of this as a long-term play?
Ted (11:04.487)
I think that's being nice.
Ted (11:23.643)
Honeymoon, Charlie, you are very romantic. Look, it's such a nice way to kind of pitch it, yes, but I think you've got to look at the reality and I think that there is no honeymoon period for any UK leadership team at a PLC level, not in this environment and not just alone in the UK, I think in Europe and other markets. And I think that management knows this very well. They've got to get the gears running from the start.
Charlie Horner (11:26.7)
Heh.
Charlie Horner (11:52.109)
Okay, well Ted, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll talk about Rob's and Reeves media call.
Welcome back to iGaming Daily, we're putting the Evoke and Ballizintralot transaction under the spotlight today. Now, Ted, you were present for Robeson Reeves' earlier today. He addressed the media and investors on this deal. What was his pitch?
Ted (12:22.95)
First of all, was one that struck confidence, and confidence about the skepticism that's been building against this deal, you know, going to markets. yes, but he also kind of presented the uniqueness and the distinction of Ballet's interlock merging with the vogue.
and how that is a fresh start for kind of not just William Hill again, but all the brands involved, that there'll be kind of new technology dynamics and that it can deliver these synergies, synergies of 180 million from the off. I was actually impressed by Robson. think he's one of the younger CEOs.
But I think that he also kind of talks about, you he talked about kind of addressing kind of this new kind of consumerism in gambling and how he wants to kind of reposition these heritage brands to take on kind of new consumers and not just look to kind of like standard norms of trading.
Charlie Horner (13:25.676)
Let's look at the synergies, because this is a word that we've heard a lot in regards to this deal since day one. Ballies have said it sees so many synergies. think 180 million pounds you just said there in synergies. That seems like a lot. Where did Roberts and Reeves say that those synergies lie and how will that actually come to fruition?
Ted (13:29.882)
Mm-hmm.
Ted (13:50.235)
I mean, he's questioned heavily on this and I think first the application here was that they're going to have a much bigger profile and they will be able to kind of use that to the advantage, especially kind of scale and commercial leverage on the marketing front.
So one of the things is that the marketing budget will be amplified, but he believes that he can get kind of better margins across the value chain, be it from campaigns and be it from affiliate marketing. The important one here comes back to the technology integration. Now, as...
Robinson stated it's that, you know, they are really amplifying the business and it's now going to be a PLC that generates, you know, 3.5 billion a year on income. And he thinks that kind of platforms have to be kind of responsive to that. So that revision is going to come in. The 180, it's actually quite concerned. They've pitched that as being quite conservative where the business is at its initial point, right? And it might be one that actually is amplified down the line. Again, I think the focus comes back
from leadership to earnings, earnings, earnings, what's the bottom line and how can that, those, you know, better earnings capacity help improve kind of our debts, a debt realignment.
Charlie Horner (15:08.403)
Yeah, I think a lot of this is going to come down to the bottom line and whenever you banded around the term cost controls, it does make you fear for the employment market in terms of, you know, that's just some of the jobs across the board evoke. Is that something that was mentioned in the call as well or do we not know about that yet?
Ted (15:20.517)
Mm-hmm.
Ted (15:29.4)
No, sorry, we didn't get a picture of a bug's transition. I can't answer to you that.
Charlie Horner (15:33.576)
Sure. Sure. Okay, let's move it on then, because it's kind of an end of an era, if you like, Evolk, presumably, as part of this deal, will delist from the LSE, and those assets will be moved over to Athens. You said that this was a my big fat Greek Anglo transaction combination. Why do you think that leadership sees that
You know, Athens is the place to be for this entity rather than the LSE.
Ted (16:09.03)
Well, know, going in this media call and, you know, I was kind of the last person to ask the question. And I think I know Robson has gone through it with like debt and, you know, platform integrations and cost controls and synergies. And I think it's the deal. If we step back, the deal.
changes all components of the business and one of the things is the listing and again to the detriment of UK PLCs another another footsy firm leaves leaves the LSE in evoke right and it's now going to Athens but I asked Robson do you think that the Athens listing is a better home for you know William Hill and the evoke brands that have been through much through so much in the last couple of years and he said yes he actually agrees with
that observation because he thinks that it's gonna be kind of away from that kind of PLC pack and that kind of PLC scrutiny. But what's gonna happen is that once enlarged, new Bally's interlaw will rank amongst the top 10 of Greece PLCs. It will have open facilities to
index funds increase in Europe via the Euronex exchange. So it actually has a brighter position for corporate or for capital management that's beyond kind of UK shores. And he said that, you know, that is another kind of long-term benefit kind of moving away from the UK listing.
Charlie Horner (17:52.608)
Yes, perhaps an isolated incident, but probably another...
another struggle for the UK as a place to attract big listed companies as we've seen with Flutter as well and other industries we should say as well, it's not just iGaming. Okay, last couple of questions Ted and last couple of points to dissect. think the first one is, how do you see this playing out for Evolk and William Hill really? Do you think that this is the start of a bright new era in terms of...
Ted (18:07.675)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (18:28.523)
capturing some of that UK market. this new entity be, you know, maybe a podium player in the UK?
Ted (18:37.048)
I think I'm going to go back to your intro and say that, as you mentioned, the tricky part starts now. In terms of the deal itself, I'll just say that, again, Bally's interlude is making its bold play. And I think it's one... Okay, I'd say...
against this kind of environment and kind of conditions in UK gambling. I think it's much more kind of a survival driven MNA, right? But there's nothing wrong in that. I think you're just kind of reacting to the actual elements and the cards that you've been given by UK gambling in 2026 and beyond. However,
I keep on going back to, and I think I've said this in the past three podcasts, that it's not about the now, it's about taking your bruises, taking your kickings now, and seeing how you come out in 2028. And I think that maybe if they can get these integrations right, they could have actually the best, very, very clear kind of platform for growth come 2028.
Charlie Horner (19:49.483)
Yeah, I think that's the big one for me here is, is this the first sort of big domino to fall in the UK market? know, I think we anticipate that there would be consolidation in post the transformative 2025 tax judgments and some of the regulatory concerns that we've seen. I just wonder whether this is the first...
Ted (19:57.008)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (20:12.543)
the first big domino to fall and maybe others will follow suit and maybe that does put Ballets, Intralot and Evoke in a strong position coming on the other side of this. Do you think along similar lines and what do think this tells us about, I guess, the &A markets for the few years to come?
Ted (20:37.713)
My belief is that this is the first transformative deal of a new era for gambling, not just the UK alone. And it's reflective of what leadership views in the market and how the markets are going to play out. Again, Rob, Robson Reeves said that he didn't think that this was like UK centric because he knows he believes that every market is going towards that 40 to 50 % tax era.
and you're better off acting now and acting as soon as possible against that element and against that reality.
Charlie Horner (21:15.125)
And so is that from a tech point of view or is that just from a financial point of view having... Sure.
Ted (21:21.486)
I think that's from his own personal feelings and I don't think he's the only executive that sees that. I'm just going end it and say I find this one of the most intriguing deals that we've covered because...
It's one that kind of shows the scars of the industry and the fault lines too and what must be kind of answered by leadership. And I think that if we revert back to start of the year, I think one of the conversations we're having is about how leadership is going to change from in the remaining years of the decade. And we're seeing kind of that early, early fracture come into play now.
Charlie Horner (22:10.059)
Yeah, it's a big play, it's a bold play. It's a really intriguing move, one that we'll continue to monitor. And yeah, I'm fascinated to see how this one will play out. But Ted, thanks for coming on and dissecting this one with me and, you know, we'll see how this one plays out, shall we? Thanks to OptiMove for supporting the show as always, and to our listeners. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily, and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.