Save What You Love with Mark Titus

Visual media of David's has appeared in numerous outlets including the New York Times, NBC, Sierra, The National Post, Outside Magazine, Science Magazine, Natural History Magazine, and High Country News. It has also been used for conservation campaigns by organizations including National Wildlife Foundation, the Endangered Species Coalition, Wildlands Network, Nature Conservancy of Canada, Yellowstone to Yukon Conservation Initiative, Conservation Northwest, Oregon Wild, Wildsight, Selkirks Conservation Alliance, and Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society.

David holds a bachelor’s degree in Environmental Studies and Outdoor Education from Prescott College. David is certified as a Track and Sign Specialist, Trailing Specialist, and Senior Tracker through Cybertracker Conservation and is an Evaluator for this rigorous international professional certification program.

Mark and David dig into wildlife photography, the use of field science and visual story telling together as a tool, trailing, tracking, building backcountry community science, the Columbia River and its relevance to salmon and all the people in the landscapes throughout and much more.

To see Davids work, you can find him at -
Website: https://davidmoskowitz.net

Instagram: moskowitz_david

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/davidmoskowitztrackingphotography
Publisher: https://www.mountaineers.org/books

Save What You Love with Mark Titus:⁣

Produced: Emilie Firn

Edited: Patrick Troll⁣

Music: Whiskey Class⁣

Instagram: @savewhatyoulovepodcast

Website: savewhatyoulove.evaswild.com

Support wild salmon at evaswild.com

Creators & Guests

Host

Mark Titus

Mark Titus is the creator of Eva’s Wild and director of the award winning films, The Breach and The Wild. He’s currently working on a third film in his salmon trilogy, The Turn. In early 2021, Mark launched his podcast, Save What You Love, interviewing exceptional people devoting their lives in ways big and small to the protection of things they love. Through his storytelling, Mark Titus carries the message that humanity has an inherent need for wilderness and to fulfill that need we have a calling to protect wild places and wild things.

Guest

David Moskowitz

David Moskowitz works in the fields of photography, wildlife biology and education. He is the photographer and author of three books: Caribou Rainforest, Wildlife of the Pacific Northwest and Wolves in the Land of Salmon, co-author and photographer of Peterson’s Field Guide to North American Bird Nests and photographer of Big River: Resilience and Renewal in the Columbia Basin. He has contributed his technical expertise to a wide variety of wildlife studies regionally and in the Canadian and U.S. Rocky mountains, focusing on using tracking and other non-invasive methods to study wildlife ecology and promote conservation. He helped establish the Cascades Wolverine Project, a grassroots effort to support wolverine recovery in the North Cascades using field science, visual storytelling, and building backcountry community science. Visual media of David's has appeared in numerous outlets including the New York Times, NBC, Sierra, The National Post, Outside Magazine, Science Magazine, Natural History Magazine, and High Country News. It has also been used for conservation campaigns by organizations including National Wildlife Foundation, the Endangered Species Coalition, Wildlands Network, Nature Conservancy of Canada, Yellowstone to Yukon Conservation Initiative, Conservation Northwest, Oregon Wild, Wildsight, Selkirks Conservation Alliance, and Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society.

What is Save What You Love with Mark Titus?

Wild salmon give their very lives so that life itself can continue. They are the inspiration for each episode asking change-makers in this world what they are doing to save the things they love most. Join filmmaker, Mark Titus as we connect with extraordinary humans saving what they love through radical compassion and meaningful action. Visit evaswild.com for more information.

00:00:00:08 - 00:00:31:19
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm Mark Titus, your host, and today I get to sit down with David Moskowitz. David is a photographer, wildlife biologist and educator here in the Pacific Northwest. He's the photographer and author of three books Caribou Rainforest, wildlife of the Pacific Northwest, and Wolves in the Land of Salmon. And he's a coauthor and photographer of Peterson's Field Guide to North American Bird Nests, and photographer of big River Resilience and renewal in the Columbia Basin, which is out now.

00:00:31:19 - 00:01:11:03
Mark Titus
And he's on tour with David, has contributed his technical experience in the Canadian and U.S. Rocky Mountains, focusing on using tracking to study wildlife ecology and promote conservation. He established the Cascades Wolverine Project, a grassroots effort to support wolverine recovery in the North Cascades here in Washington state, using field science, visual storytelling, and building backcountry community science. David's images have appeared in The New York Times, NBC, Sierra, the National Post, Outside Magazine, Science Magazine, Natural History Magazine, and High Country News.

00:01:11:05 - 00:01:40:15
Mark Titus
Also, they've appeared for conservation and in conservation campaigns for organizations including National Wildlife Foundation, the Endangered Species Coalition, Wildlands Network Conservation Northwest Oregon Wild Wild Site, and Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, to name a few. David holds a bachelor's degree in environmental studies and outdoor education from Prescott College. He is certified as a track and science specialist. We get into that in the show.

00:01:40:15 - 00:02:11:10
Mark Titus
If you're wondering what it is, it's cool. Trailing specialist and a senior tracker through Cyber Tracker Conservation, and he's an evaluator for Cyber Tracker for this rigorous international professional certification program. Learn to be a tracker out in the wild. Very cool. We talk about that and many more things in this episode. Really dig into the Columbia River and its relevance to salmon, and to all of the people and the landscapes throughout.

00:02:11:10 - 00:02:20:07
Mark Titus
It's huge, huge basin. I hope you enjoy this episode, David. It was wonderful to record it and we'll see you down the trail.

00:02:20:09 - 00:02:56:19
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:02:56:21 - 00:03:00:21
Mark Titus
David Moskowitz. Welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

00:03:00:23 - 00:03:05:23
David Moskowitz
I'm, visiting a friend down in Portland, Oregon. I live in north central Washington state.

00:03:06:01 - 00:03:26:00
Mark Titus
Cool. I, I'm going to ask you about that in a little bit. Because I've checked out your bio, and I know, I know, you're in a place it's very near and dear to a lot of us, but, first off, look, this is, this is long format stuff. I love it because we don't have to be really curtailed by the clock.

00:03:26:02 - 00:03:41:22
Mark Titus
Or little short sound bites and what I'd love to do is just open this up and tell us about your story. Where? Where'd you grow up? Who are your influences in your life? And how did you get into this work, this good work that you're doing to save the things you love?

00:03:42:00 - 00:04:18:00
David Moskowitz
Got it. Well, yeah. My road to, my work as a photographer focusing on conservation stories, and then wildlife conservation work. I moved out to California from the East Coast when I was a teenager, and just, the Bay area fell in love with the outdoors. And right alongside that, quickly realized, like, wow, all these beautiful places and all these amazing species of animals and plants I was learning about, like, all the threats that go along with it.

00:04:18:01 - 00:04:44:02
David Moskowitz
So this kind of love of the natural world was kind of born in me, right alongside a recognition that, that biodiversity is imperiled in our day and age and, by humans. And so I felt a calling to learn more about the natural world and do what I can to, leave the world a slightly, you know, better place or less bad place, as it were, for future generations.

00:04:44:04 - 00:04:50:20
Mark Titus
Was there anything that sparked this in you on the East Coast, and anything you miss about the East Coast, or was it sort of a.

00:04:50:22 - 00:04:51:05
David Moskowitz
I mean.

00:04:51:10 - 00:04:51:17
Mark Titus
At first.

00:04:51:17 - 00:05:20:00
David Moskowitz
Sight? Yeah. I moved out to California as 13 or 14 years old, and before that, you know, natural spaces were a place to go get the baseball. And it rolled off the field and quickly go back to, you know, the ball field or whatever. So it's totally new world. Learning to backpack in the Sierras. And I lived under a, not Diablo in the East Bay in the Bay area, and I was kind of my first classroom as a naturalist and outdoor adventure.

00:05:20:01 - 00:05:38:18
Mark Titus
Beautiful. Well, let's jump right into it. You have a magnificent book out now. Big river resilience and renewal in the Columbia Basin. Why is this book so important right now? And why? Why were you drawn to working on it?

00:05:38:20 - 00:06:04:05
David Moskowitz
Okay, well, I live in the Columbia River watershed, and the book is all about. It's a contemporary. It's a documentary book about the contemporary Columbia River and, which many indigenous, languages refer to. The Columbia River as the big river is a, you know, rough translation of indigenous names. So, but, yeah. So this was a backyard project.

00:06:04:06 - 00:06:24:06
David Moskowitz
I was like, I want to know more about this amazing river whose watershed I live in. And I've done the majority of my work. And as an A, you know, from the age of, I've lived in the watershed for almost my entire adult life and have worked on projects as a biologist and a photographer and, journalist all over the watershed.

00:06:24:08 - 00:06:52:11
David Moskowitz
So I just was like, I want to know the whole story. And and it felt timely for a couple reasons. One is, so the Columbia River is one of the largest watersheds in North America. It's one of the most important. It is the most important watershed in the Pacific Northwest and and one of the most important watersheds in all of North America in terms of hydropower production, salmon, you know, agriculture.

00:06:52:13 - 00:07:20:04
David Moskowitz
And, but there's really no there's a lot of stuff published about what was destroyed in the Columbia River with the creation of all the dams. So everything that was lost, there's, stuff on the history, like what things were like before the industrialization of the main stem of the river. But there is nothing that really celebrated the diversity and, amazing place that the Columbia River watershed is today.

00:07:20:04 - 00:07:47:00
David Moskowitz
And not to take away from the challenges that we face in the watershed, which are huge, but this is still a place that has tremendous biodiversity, tremendous cultural diversity. It's a it's a watershed the size of France. But there's like dozens of indigenous languages spoken within it. There's, tons of salmon that still were returned to various parts of the watershed despite all of the challenges they face.

00:07:47:01 - 00:08:11:11
David Moskowitz
It's a breadbasket for, you know, the world. It's, produces a huge amount of hydropower. So there's like, all of these really important biological and cultural elements of the river today that I really wanted people to see. And I realized that folks outside of the watershed have no I it's this is not like the Colorado River, which is really famous in a sense, like the Grand Canyon and all that stuff.

00:08:11:12 - 00:08:38:04
David Moskowitz
I really wanted to, show people that really beautiful landscapes that are part of this watershed, and then also to paint an image that was a cohesive story that tied together landscapes as disparate as the Columbia Icefields and the Canadian Rockies, to the deserts in Nevada and Utah, to the Grand Tetons, in Wyoming, to Astoria, Washington, where it goes into the sea, is like all of these places are part of one watershed.

00:08:38:04 - 00:09:06:13
David Moskowitz
So I wanted to put that all together and show people what this place really is. And the final thing I'll say is that, now is a very important time for us to be thinking about that, because for, for one, our arena currently renegotiating an international treaty that, dictates management of the river and, the old treaty is pretty dated in terms of doesn't really take into account ecological function of the river at all.

00:09:06:15 - 00:09:43:18
David Moskowitz
So there's a chance to update that. And then we're at this turning point culturally where we're recognizing that, the ecological services that a healthy watershed provides are just as important and potentially far more valuable than things like agricultural water or hydropower or alone flood control management. And so now is a moment for us to recognize and celebrate the other services that this watershed provides us and advocate for management and care of the river in a way that reflects our better understanding of the 21st century.

00:09:43:20 - 00:09:52:02
David Moskowitz
As we look beyond and move away from structures that were created, you know, 100 years ago to manage this river.

00:09:52:04 - 00:10:17:15
Mark Titus
Well, all my lights are lit up here. So, but I'm going to try to stay focused. Let's hover on those ecological benefits. What what are you talking about? What are some of those things? What are some examples of those? And are there ways that those can be augmented to really lead us into the next phase of living in place within this watershed?

00:10:17:17 - 00:10:44:03
David Moskowitz
Sure. I mean, the the ecological services of the Columbia River presently and historically are massive, and they range from as widely as fish, which provides a critical protein for people literally all over the world and was the staple of indigenous peoples here. And, continues to be a very important part of their diet. So just providing food, like just without doing anything, you don't have to to plow the ground.

00:10:44:03 - 00:11:19:23
David Moskowitz
You don't have to you don't have to plant seeds. Fish just show up here and feed people. This is an amazing service with an economic value in the millions of dollars. So that's a service that is greatly diminished but still present and certainly could be more again in the future. Water storage. So the watershed with all of the intact forests, forested landscapes, our natural water storage systems and the snowpack in our mountains, which is a part of the watershed, is, you know, so much water is stored there, and we don't have to put a dam on the river to store it.

00:11:19:23 - 00:11:44:09
David Moskowitz
We don't have to, you know, do anything. It's just a service that these landscapes provide to us. Like all this snow falls in the winter and then it slowly melts and, feeds the lowlands and people. That's a tremendous ecological service provided by the by the river, natural flood control. So a a healthy watershed and floodplain will allow water to.

00:11:44:09 - 00:12:04:09
David Moskowitz
That's like when big flood events happen and it can spread out and soak into the ground and slow down flood events. And when we destroy floodplains, when we build it, when we make it hardened, then we have we lose that ecological service that's naturally provided by a healthy river. And then we need to replace that with very expensive flood control stock structures.

00:12:04:09 - 00:12:29:14
David Moskowitz
So that's an ecological service that's also provided by there. So that's just a a few examples. And you can see that there like the economic value to humans. Like the cost. It would be some of those things are just absolutely irreplaceable. Like you can't actually replace them and their economic value is in the billions of dollars when you when you add it all up.

00:12:29:16 - 00:12:59:01
Mark Titus
Subset of that, you know, keep seeing more and more of and I'm wondering if you've, concentrated on in your photography as, beavers in the West here, right there, like the ultimate flood control critters. And, we're, of course, just taken for, an economic boon to, you know, settlers coming out here and, and almost completely wiped off the face of the earth, but have you done any work with those guys?

00:12:59:03 - 00:13:20:09
David Moskowitz
Yeah, absolutely. And beavers are a great example of how the story of the Columbia River is really a complex one. And following a pretty similar narrative to other species, the beavers were annihilate or nearly annihilated from much of the Columbia River watershed. And and now they're in a state of resurgence, both naturally and because of human help doing that with translocations.

00:13:20:09 - 00:13:44:09
David Moskowitz
And and we're recognizing the tremendous ecological value of beavers, which is really another function of a watershed in that they do all that water storage as well for us. You know, beavers raise the water table, they slow down, they slow down and can cool water and, recharge watersheds and aquifers. So, they're awesome species. Plus they're really amazing to watch.

00:13:44:11 - 00:14:05:06
David Moskowitz
Really, the work they do is tremendous, very engaging for people. So I definitely spent a lot of time watching Beavers and the work of beavers. There's some a couple of beaver images in the book, which is fun to pick through. What would end up there? But, yeah, really cool critter. And, really happy to include them in the project I did.

00:14:05:08 - 00:14:30:13
Mark Titus
Nice. Yeah, I love watching those guys, and I'm constantly amazed what they'll take on, you know, seeing trees this or bigger that are whittled down into the middle. And those guys are industrious, to say the least. Speaking of creating a big work of art, like a book. And, you know, on my case, making films, it's it's, it's a collaboration.

00:14:30:15 - 00:14:37:18
Mark Titus
And this was no different. Right? This was a collaboration. Who did you work with on this? And how was that experience?

00:14:37:20 - 00:15:06:00
David Moskowitz
Yeah, absolutely. Well, the, first person I have to mention is Eileen Delahunty parks, who, wrote the essay, the primary essay that goes with the, the photos of mine, which is, you know, you could describe as like a biography of the river. And, Eileen also, she and I, along with the publisher of braided River, really hashed out what was the structure of the book going to be and what were the themes we were going to focus on?

00:15:06:00 - 00:15:30:11
David Moskowitz
So beyond just writing a really beautiful narrative that, accompanies the photos in the book also helped shape my understanding of the river and the themes and how I covered things visually. So she was a and her wealth of knowledge on the river is just tremendous. She's published many other books on the Columbia River, so it's just a joy to get to work with her and learn from her.

00:15:30:12 - 00:15:53:15
David Moskowitz
And then, dozens and dozens of other collaborators, you know, large and small, a number of, like, biologists and fisheries folks. It's a number of the photos in the book. It took a lot of back end research to just find, like, who's the person I need to talk to to understand this subject, to figure out where to go and when to go.

00:15:53:16 - 00:16:26:20
David Moskowitz
And, just to get one image. I did numerous trips that were months in the arranging to go make 2 or 3 photos for the book and, to the, the, acknowledgments in the book kind of tries to lay out all the folks that helped me, behind the scenes. And then also in the field, I had a lot of folks helped me carrying equipment to crazy places like the top of the Columbia Icefield or, wading through rivers to get photos of fish and, huge project, really, really fun.

00:16:26:22 - 00:17:06:04
David Moskowitz
And grateful for all those folks. And, and a lot of the people that I photographed, you know, I have the whole series of portraits in the book of what I like to think of as river people. And these are people just with unique relationships with the river, whether it's like a rancher out in the desert, in the snake River watershed that depends on, water from the watershed to, raise cattle or, indigenous fishermen on the lower river that lives right by the river and, and, and makes their living, fishing, people with all these different relationships, with the river and getting the chance to go out and see them

00:17:06:04 - 00:17:37:09
David Moskowitz
and photograph them and hear their stories in the places that were important to them, so that, the fishing scaffolds of, Lou George or, going out and seeing the, walk operator on one of the snake River dams, managing the locks that lets barge guy barge traffic pass through, and getting to photograph them there and seeing their relationship with the river was, just felt really blessed and lucky that people just opened up their, their, their vision of the river with me.

00:17:37:09 - 00:18:03:03
David Moskowitz
And then I could in turn pass that on to, readers. And similarly, I'd say with wildlife. You know, one of the things that I really believe humans are just another species on this planet. Humans are just another animal in the watershed. And in the same way that I tried to build relationships and and take pictures of people that reflected their experience, their values of the river.

00:18:03:05 - 00:18:13:22
David Moskowitz
I was trying to do that as well with the wildlife and, place them in a context that told their story and, how they're related to this watershed.

00:18:14:00 - 00:18:47:00
Mark Titus
Beautiful. I know, I'm going to just ask for me because I'm curious. I know that a lot of our listeners will will be curious as well. But as a fellow storyteller, it it's so hard to get your head around the world in how you're telling a story. You mentioned it earlier. How did you go about organizing your thoughts and, and breaking this up into, you know, a cohesive and, understandable, story?

00:18:47:01 - 00:18:49:03
Mark Titus
How what's your process like?

00:18:49:07 - 00:19:07:23
David Moskowitz
Yeah, complicated. And it worked out at a few different directions. So some of it was a bit intuitive, like, what are the things that feel important? You know, like, you know, we knew we were going to do a story about the Columbia River or there's going to be salmon involved. We don't know how that's going to fit in or all the different places will fit in.

00:19:07:23 - 00:19:26:08
David Moskowitz
But that's a knowing. Right. And then there's some things it's like, well, there's there's so many millions of different stories to tell, which are the ones that we're going to tell that are big examples, like, we can't cover every tributary to the Columbia River, but let's make sure we cover the Hawaii River, which is a great example of a desert watershed.

00:19:26:08 - 00:19:54:06
David Moskowitz
And let's make sure to cover, you know, a coastal rainforest river and let's, you know, so we looked at it from a lot of different lenses geographically, was one to make sure we had geographic representation. We looked at it through a cultural lens. So, we wanted to make sure that, we included examples of, as many different cultural perspectives and different cultures that live within the watershed.

00:19:54:06 - 00:20:33:06
David Moskowitz
So there's an indigenous colonial dichotomy. And, but then even within an indigenous perspective, you know, there's five major language groups within the watershed, and then dozens of of, sovereign and, you know, nations within that. So we can't include every one of them. But we wanted to make sure that in representing indigenous perspectives and voices that, we tried to represent, to demonstrate not every voice or perspective out there, but the to really highlight the diversity of ways that indigenous people relate to this watershed.

00:20:33:08 - 00:21:05:02
David Moskowitz
And then within the settler colonial culture, the same thing, we wanted to show all of the different cultural ways that people are relating to the river. So we have folks that are, you know, environmental activists and folks that are commercial fishermen and folks that are, growing apples or picking apples, you know, so it's just we wanted as many different perspectives, recreational fishermen, as many different, ways that we could look at people's relationship with the river.

00:21:05:04 - 00:21:27:14
David Moskowitz
And then we looked at, the important kind of conservation themes of the day. So water management for irrigation and, and flood control and hydropower, and the biodiversity crisis and climate change, and so it's like, how do we weave all of those threads into the story as well?

00:21:27:16 - 00:21:28:08
Mark Titus

00:21:28:10 - 00:21:51:10
David Moskowitz
And, it was definitely the most complicated story to weave into a single narrative that I've ever worked on. And we actually came up with one structure for the book and laid out the entire book. And Helen Cerullo, who's the publisher at great River and an amazing, conservationist and visionary for making books, looked at it, we were like 90% of the way there.

00:21:51:10 - 00:21:52:19
David Moskowitz
She was like, nope, doesn't work.

00:21:52:23 - 00:21:53:12
Mark Titus
Wow.

00:21:53:12 - 00:22:09:20
David Moskowitz
And she tore the whole book apart and recreated it in a totally different structure, which I helped with and totally thought was great. So yeah, it was it was epic. Yeah. The little bit of magic sprinkled in with a lot of kind of systematic work.

00:22:09:22 - 00:22:13:01
Mark Titus
Wow. And then you went and had a good cry, and I'm sure.

00:22:13:03 - 00:22:34:16
David Moskowitz
I got, I've got this master spreadsheet that I created of all of the different images that I thought I wanted that would track where I'd have to go to get it, and what time of year I would get it, and the people I'd need to talk to about it. And, and you could sort it and filter it. And that was like my Bible for three years while I was trying to trying to get everything nailed down.

00:22:34:18 - 00:23:01:09
Mark Titus
Well, well, I feel you, keenly. I'm at I'm smack in the face of, trying to wrap up storyline on my film. The Turn, which has a large snake River portion in it. And, I'm I'm locking myself in a room for a week next week in a writer's cabin to get all the threads lined out. And I've been work at same thing I've been working on since 21.

00:23:01:11 - 00:23:28:00
Mark Titus
So I love hearing processed stuff. Sorry folks, if this is boring to you out there, don't care. Love it. It makes me very happy to hear other people's process. And Helen is amazing. She's a great friend, great great visionary, great great visionary leader as well. You're right. You know, I'm sure you've had a good understanding of things going into this or a relative understanding of things compared to your experience.

00:23:28:01 - 00:23:37:03
Mark Titus
But what are maybe 2 or 3 of the most surprising things you learned during the course of creating this piece of art?

00:23:37:05 - 00:23:58:12
David Moskowitz
Yeah. I mean, I felt like I had enough knowledge to understand the broad brush strokes of this story, but I definitely learned a ton in the process. The first thing that came to my mind was, I'd seen, subsistence fishing up in Alaskan rivers with deep nets and had heard that that was going on in the Fraser River, but Fraser River.

00:23:58:14 - 00:24:24:13
David Moskowitz
But I didn't realize that there's still some indigenous subsistence fishing now with traditional methods here on the Columbia River. And that was really eye opening to me. And getting to go out and like, observe and interact with and, you know, learn from and about the folks that are still fishing in the same way, in the same places that their ancestors have been fishing for thousands of years.

00:24:24:15 - 00:24:52:09
David Moskowitz
And like amidst the chaos of the 21st century, right dams, bridges, super highways, all this stuff going on all around them, and there they are, carrying on this tradition of fishing and tending to the river. You know, you know that in a way that's been unbroken for millennia. That was really eye opening. Like, I could see that in, you know, more pristine watersheds in Alaska.

00:24:52:09 - 00:25:15:11
David Moskowitz
I was like, yeah, that's no problem to imagine, but to realize, like, these folks have managed to maintain that tradition, like In the Belly of the beast and, you know, highly industrialized river system, along the main stem of the river and in tributaries and more wild tributaries was really eye opening and very impressive and very, inspiring, honestly.

00:25:15:13 - 00:25:35:18
David Moskowitz
So that was one thing. I learned a ton about water management and dam management and like, why there's water and one that, you know, sometimes you'll go along the Columbia River, which is much of it is now flat water from dams that are backed up one against the other. And it's like, why does this one have low water and the next one have high water?

00:25:35:18 - 00:25:49:20
David Moskowitz
And like, how does that all work? And so I learned a lot about water management and how, that, that happens. Is another thing. Those are two things that stand out, you know, off the cuff.

00:25:49:22 - 00:25:55:13
Mark Titus
Great. Great answers. And do you go into that in the book, especially on the water management side of things, you know?

00:25:55:13 - 00:26:20:21
David Moskowitz
Yeah. Excuse me, Eileen definitely touches on the complexities of managing the river and the different, values, and that drive that. And, so, yeah, we do touch on that. I mean, not in the amount of detail I got fascinated about. Right? Because it's like, it's it's not the layperson needs to know the broad brush strokes. Sure, sure.

00:26:20:23 - 00:26:25:12
David Moskowitz
I did a bit more of a deep dive into into that for sure.

00:26:25:14 - 00:26:48:03
Mark Titus
Did you? I know I do this. Did you? I'm sure there was moments where you would look out over the landscape and maybe kind of do a mental overlay of what you thought it might be like. Pre-European contact did, did that hit you at various times? And what was that feeling like if you did? If it did.

00:26:48:05 - 00:27:21:06
David Moskowitz
Yeah. You know, it's that's a it's an interesting question. One of the formative books in, in my, coming of age as a conservationist was Aldo Leopold Sand County Almanac. And, believe it's in there that he said becoming an ecology literate is to wake up in a world full of wounds. And, That's beautiful. A theme of my understanding of the world is realizing like, wow, this even landscapes we think of as quote unquote wild and pristine are deeply impacted by settler colonialism on many levels.

00:27:21:08 - 00:27:49:07
David Moskowitz
And actually, the Columbia River watershed is kind of an interesting mix where we do have landscapes that still reflect what they look like pre European settlement. So grasslands where there's no invasive species and, you know, primeval forests that have been growing since the end of the ice age. And mountaintops that, you know, still look like the ice age is going on.

00:27:49:09 - 00:28:12:01
David Moskowitz
So you can blend that with driving along the main stand of the Columbia in Oregon and Washington and realizing like, it's not even a river. It's a series of flat water reservoirs. And like, what did it look like underneath? It's like, I can't even imagine. And what did that floodplain look like when the river could rise and drop it of its own accord and break the channels and, and and all of that.

00:28:12:01 - 00:28:36:00
David Moskowitz
So it was definitely a, there's some places where I could see it, you know, you could go drive through a potato field. And I've seen what those grasslands look like because there are patches of it. And I could you know, overlay that. And then there's other places where it's like, what was once, is just lost to me in terms of my imagination.

00:28:36:02 - 00:29:15:22
David Moskowitz
And I'd also say I was curious about that and wanted to make sure to, to show, to visualize in the book some of those pristine landscapes. But I was less interested in cataloging things that were lost, or artifacts of the past, and more interested in showing people what is today. And so I was really working on landscapes that integrated geography and wildlands with humans, structures, you know, bridges and dams all set in a kind of big context that shows the river as it currently exists today.

00:29:16:00 - 00:29:51:06
David Moskowitz
And like you know, landscape, irrigated landscapes with mountains beyond them. And like, just that helps people appreciate what is today, which is a place of, you know, really intense wounds, but also magnificent beauty and, like, very important cultural value, to the people who live here. So it's I really try to take a sober, clear eyed, but, like, you know, appreciative view of, of the beauty, including the scars, of this landscape as we experience it today.

00:29:51:08 - 00:30:10:01
Mark Titus
Well said. Big river resilience and renewal in the Columbia Basin. David, I don't have the book. I'm getting it. And I cannot wait to dig into this. This is just a luminous feat that you have put together. Where can folks get it if they want to purchase the book.

00:30:10:03 - 00:30:24:14
David Moskowitz
Anywhere books are sold? We do have a website that, you can get a sneak peek at some of the photos and get a sense of the book and see our collaborators, and then find out about events and then also buy it. And that's big River columbia.org.

00:30:24:16 - 00:30:42:04
Mark Titus
Perfect. Yeah. We're going to link all that stuff up in the show notes. But we also have more to dig into.

00:30:42:06 - 00:31:10:22
Mark Titus
Half time, did you know you could have the world's finest wild salmon shipped directly to your door? It's true. Our Eva's Wild Bristol Bay sockeye salmon is the lowest carbon footprint center plate protein on the planet, and it's packed with heart healthy omega three fatty acids. Don't take our word for it. Ask chefs like Seattle's Tom Douglas and Taichi Kitamura, who are serving our sashimi grade wild salmon in their award winning restaurants.

00:31:11:00 - 00:31:36:09
Mark Titus
You can have the exact same filets we deliver to them, shipped flash frozen to your door. What's more, Eva's Wild donates 10% of our profits to indigenous led efforts to protect Bristol Bay in perpetuity. That's the place we sourced the salmon from right now. That looks like supporting the Bristol Bay Foundation, granting Bristol Bay's indigenous young people scholarships to four year colleges, universities and trade schools.

00:31:36:11 - 00:32:08:04
Mark Titus
VVisit Evaswild.com to join our growing community doing good by eating right. That's "save" spelled backwards. wild.com and eat wild to save wild. Now back to the show. I'm curious. I know you're working in Portland today, but, I understand that you live in the traditional homelands of the meadow people. Where would you say you're the root of your heart is geographically.

00:32:08:04 - 00:32:14:14
Mark Titus
Is it there? Or I should say maybe even geologically? Is it there or is there another place that calls to you even deeper?

00:32:14:16 - 00:32:31:22
David Moskowitz
Yeah, I think the North Cascades are the place I call home, you know, and I often ask folks I'm working with. Yeah. What do you think of is home? However you define it, you know, it could be where you lay your head or where your soul will go and your body stops working on this planet. But yeah, I think the North Cascades.

00:32:32:00 - 00:32:44:18
David Moskowitz
And so living on the east slope of the North Cascades feels, I feel really lucky to get to live in such a beautiful part of the world. And wherever I travel for work, which is far and wide, I'm always happy to come home nice.

00:32:44:20 - 00:32:59:20
Mark Titus
Do you do things I would imagine living there function of that is getting out and being in the system itself. In the the relationship with the land. What are some of the things that draw you to that part of the world?

00:32:59:22 - 00:33:12:14
David Moskowitz
Yeah, well, on a personal level, I'm a trail runner and a mountain climber and a rock climber and a skier and a hiker and backpacker and naturalist. So, yeah, all, all mountain biker. All of the above.

00:33:12:16 - 00:33:13:02
Mark Titus
Heaven.

00:33:13:03 - 00:33:31:10
David Moskowitz
I'll do it. And then, but I have work both far from home. But then also I have a number of projects that are close to home as well, which is great. I've been working on a, combination research and photography conservation project on Wolverines.

00:33:31:12 - 00:33:32:10
Mark Titus
Oh, yes.

00:33:32:12 - 00:33:49:07
David Moskowitz
In the Cascades. And so that's a backyard project for me, which I'm really, grateful for. I've been working on that with, Steph Williams as my primary collaborator for 6 or 7 years now. You know, a few other smaller things as well. Close to home.

00:33:49:09 - 00:34:18:01
Mark Titus
Cool. Well, to, quote Rumi. What what, great big foolish project do you have in your future? Is there something that your heart is drawn to right now that is, you're working on, or is there something maybe a little bit further off in the horizon? Is there something that's really calling to you to, to tackle as a subject or as a means of artistic expression?

00:34:18:03 - 00:34:38:09
David Moskowitz
That's your question. I mean, right now I'm in the midst of like, we did all this work on the big River project. So I'm doing the less exciting part of actually doing, you know, talks like this and, you know, speaking events and making sure that we put all those photos to work. So that's an important part of my work, not just taking the photos, but making sure they're helping with conservation.

00:34:38:12 - 00:34:39:07
Mark Titus
That's right.

00:34:39:09 - 00:35:01:09
David Moskowitz
So I'm doing that, and I'm on a little bit of a hiatus between big projects, which I'm excited about. So I'll be doing a little fishing for what's next. But in the interim, the one thing that I have picked up again is, I'm working on my own personal project on a, series of images of the proprietors of taco trucks.

00:35:01:11 - 00:35:02:10
Mark Titus
Sick dude.

00:35:02:16 - 00:35:08:23
David Moskowitz
Yeah, beautiful fine taco trucks all over the place. And, I love eating tacos and street food.

00:35:08:23 - 00:35:10:08
Mark Titus
Mexican man.

00:35:10:10 - 00:35:24:13
David Moskowitz
And so I'm, hoping to put together a portfolio of images of the different people that, make tacos and taco trucks and, share a little bit of why they have a taco truck and why it is.

00:35:24:15 - 00:35:33:11
Mark Titus
Signed me up. I'm getting that immediately. I am a taco truck sucker for sure. Yeah, well.

00:35:33:13 - 00:35:36:09
David Moskowitz
I tell people that they're like, what? That's not I.

00:35:36:09 - 00:35:52:16
Mark Titus
Think it's rad. Like, good, good work. That's beautiful. Nothing better, man. Nothing better than a real salty soccer taco truck. My friend Amy Gillick would slap me if she heard me asking you what's next? She's like, we're right here. We're in the middle of this. We're doing a book.

00:35:52:18 - 00:35:54:03
David Moskowitz
I should see Amy saying that.

00:35:54:05 - 00:36:18:22
Mark Titus
Yes, but but, I always wonder, you know, I've got things that I think about, like, you know, you got to concentrate what's in front of you. I'm going to go with the taco trucks. I think that's wonderful. So tell me, and I think specifically here for our listeners, what is a track and sign specialist? Is it hard to become one?

00:36:19:00 - 00:36:47:15
David Moskowitz
Great. That's a great question. So, so track and sign specialist is a certification, that's awarded to somebody through Cyber tracker Conservation International, which, as far as I know, is the only international body that sort of provides professional certification and wildlife tracking. And, and specialist is the highest level of certification you can be awarded.

00:36:47:20 - 00:37:13:06
David Moskowitz
Now, the certification process actually has two parts tracking sign and trailing and tracking sign interpretation. You to get certified in that you go through a rigorous field examination where you're provided a series of tracks and signs to interpret. And then trailing the other half of that, you actually have to, pick a trail of an animal and follow it until you find the animal and try not to just disturb it in the process.

00:37:13:06 - 00:37:49:07
David Moskowitz
And that's the test for that. So it is very rigorous. Wildlife tracking isn't a skill that anybody is born with, but we all are born with the capacity to learn it. It's a it's a cross cultural, traditional ecological knowledge that people have developed independently all over the planet, wherever they interacted with wildlife. And it has many different contemporary applications in the modern world, such as, hunting, wildlife research, wildlife conservation, education.

00:37:49:07 - 00:38:36:00
David Moskowitz
So, you know, nature education and. Right, personal enrichment, search and rescue. I mean, dozens of different, you know, it's like people use it in all sorts of large and small ways. And then I think you're referring to. So another hat I wear when I'm not working as a photographer is I am a evaluator for cyber track for conservation and, provide training and, assessment and then certificate certificates to folks who qualify in wildlife tracking with the vision for that project to create a standard and an appreciation for that skill set and encourage its use, in conservation and education, and research in the modern world.

00:38:36:02 - 00:39:03:14
Mark Titus
Well, when, when I, pull the throttle back a little bit here and finish this film, I'm going to be calling you, say, oh, yeah, fascinating. I've always wanted to learn that. And it's not something that, for me, as a person who struggles with just book learning, alone, I need to get with somebody who is out in the field, understand it in that way.

00:39:03:14 - 00:39:04:15
Mark Titus
That's a very.

00:39:04:16 - 00:39:31:06
David Moskowitz
You know, wildlife tracking is, one of my original mentors in wildlife tracking was, man named Charles Worsham, and he was, in our history professor and amazing, artist, visual artist. And he really described wildlife tracking as a visual language and interpreting tracks and understanding tracks was a process of reading the landscape and reading signs and disturbances, in the same way, read a book.

00:39:31:06 - 00:39:53:15
David Moskowitz
But rather than letters and numbers and all that stuff, it's like the the tracks and the signs are the story are telling the story. And as a photographer, and as a photographer that's often looking at landscapes and trying to figure out what are the elements that will visually tell the story that I'm trying to get across. It's a natural overlay to wildlife.

00:39:53:15 - 00:40:18:23
David Moskowitz
Tracks and signs were in some ways the animals have done the same thing right where they have left messages on the landscape that if you look at it and think about what communicate a story to you. And, so my work as a photographer and as a wildlife tracker go hand in hand, not just because I use tracks to find wildlife, but also because it's drawing on a similar way of seeing and interacting with the world.

00:40:19:01 - 00:40:55:05
Mark Titus
Beautiful to look at that. And I think, the visual aspect is the large part of it for me as well. And, and I think to feel that kinship to, to have an understand and not not just a cursory glance, but a, hey, that that's a deer, that's a porcupine, that's a fox feels like you're not alone. It feels like you are connected in a way that is real and, and, less about guessing and more about an invitation to be a part of that.

00:40:55:05 - 00:41:13:21
Mark Titus
That bigger natural world. That's great. So I know another aspect of work that you do is around citizen science and monitoring and, what is that and why is it so important and how does it work?

00:41:13:23 - 00:41:49:15
David Moskowitz
Right. Yeah. Well, community science is a form of research, and monitoring that involves employing members of the community in which you're doing research. So, in my case, it's often folks that recreate in natural spaces helping collect data on usually wildlife that also uses the same natural spaces where they recreate. And, that ties in really well to wildlife tracking, too, because it's a simple way to collect data that everybody can do, and you don't need expensive equipment to do it.

00:41:49:15 - 00:42:21:06
David Moskowitz
And so forth. I really appreciate community science as a method for monitoring and collecting information. Because it's very engaging, has like it has not just the conservation benefit of learning about the species you're studying, but also engaging the community of people, that, that will become stewards are part of the stewardship of that landscape or could become advocates for the species that you're studying.

00:42:21:08 - 00:42:55:14
David Moskowitz
Or, might be negatively affected by conservation measures that would be taken. And I want, you know, those folks to understand, what's at stake for the wildlife and, for themselves. And so there's a level of engagement there that I think is important. You probably haven't heard. It's not lost on you and most of our, you know, listeners that, our society also has an increasing, skepticism for experts, which is a is a challenge.

00:42:55:14 - 00:43:32:06
David Moskowitz
And in the complicated world that we live in now, where we do need special. Excuse me, specialized expertise to understand things, but at the same time, I, I believe there is a, you know, natural skepticism of things we don't understand, which is healthy and valuable and has benefited us as a species. And so one of the things I love about community science is that it puts the power of data collection and sometimes the power of interpreting that data in the people, rather than in experts that are separated from that.

00:43:32:08 - 00:43:55:09
David Moskowitz
And, and so there's a democratization of research and science that goes along with that, where a community can be like, we collected this data, so therefore we understand how it's collected and what it means. And then these interpretations of that actually align with what I saw in collecting this data, or it doesn't align with that. And I need to ask more questions.

00:43:55:09 - 00:44:17:05
David Moskowitz
But there's a engagement and in the research that is different when you've got skin in the game of actually collecting as opposed to being like, oh, I don't understand what that means or I don't, I bet they made that up. Or, you know, there's like this othering of, you know, experts in science that, you know, you can't do when you're like, well, who collected this information?

00:44:17:05 - 00:44:21:18
David Moskowitz
It's like, well, you did or your neighbor did, you know.

00:44:21:20 - 00:44:40:11
Mark Titus
Do you have a sense? It feels great. I love it. And do you have a real sense of community around that? I mean, are there are there actual physical gatherings where people share data, or is it more of a sort of an online community where there's a, a data set that's available?

00:44:40:13 - 00:45:07:00
David Moskowitz
Yeah. I mean, really depends on the project. And so I do some work as a basically as a consultant to help manage or set up, you know, different projects, and really will tailor it to the needs, the, the goals of whatever that project is. So I've been working with Conservation Northwest for, gosh, a decade and a half on a community science project, in the Cascades and along Snoqualmie Pass.

00:45:07:00 - 00:45:37:05
David Moskowitz
And that often involves small groups of people getting together, going out, collecting the data, and then it gets uploaded to a shared database. So there is a like literal physical community aspect of that. But then, with the Wolverine project, for instance, we just have an online portal, and if you are recreating or doing whatever you're doing in the Pacific Northwest and you encounter what you believe to be Wolverine tracks or an actual Wolverine, you can make that report through online portal.

00:45:37:05 - 00:45:59:13
David Moskowitz
And then that all gets collected and, you know, summarized and and shared. So nobody, you know, it's like we sometimes I know the people that are sending data and we do have repeat offenders that will send us, you know, that are really into it, which is awesome. And sometimes it's just somebody who thinks they saw. Wolverine finds our website because we advertise that you want to we're looking for Wolverine information.

00:45:59:13 - 00:46:04:16
David Moskowitz
And this is what a Wolverine looks like. And this is what their tracks look like. So and they'll submit their observation to us.

00:46:04:16 - 00:46:18:01
Mark Titus
And yeah that's great. That's great. I just yesterday saw I think it was the Park Service posted photographs of wolverines on the sides of Mount Rainier. Yeah. From. Yeah. Wow. That was stunning.

00:46:18:03 - 00:46:19:00
David Moskowitz
Yeah. Totally.

00:46:19:02 - 00:46:36:05
Mark Titus
Yeah. Is there are there folks, then, who collate and adjudicate the information? You know, obviously there's a it's a democratized way of gathering the information. But then are there, you know, qualified biologists or others who are sort of curating, curating.

00:46:36:07 - 00:46:58:07
David Moskowitz
It's a great question. And so that is one of the critiques of community science often is like, well, you know, garbage data and garbage, you know, and so we will both train our volunteers to, you know, do a good job in data collection. And the argument that professional scientists are better data collectors than members of the public.

00:46:58:09 - 00:47:35:05
David Moskowitz
Sometimes is true and sometimes is objectively false. There's some amazing naturalists there, and especially when you get to specialized knowledge, like, I've met a lot of amateur birders that, you know, I cower in their presence as far as like identifying birds and so forth. So it's like, I think that's a spurious assumption just to make in general. But that being said, with projects where we're just asking people, it's like, if you think this could be a Wolverine, send us the information, then obviously we need folks that can be like, yes, this is a Wolverine or no, it's not a wolverine, or there's not enough information to say one way or the other.

00:47:35:05 - 00:47:59:16
David Moskowitz
So we we do use expert reviewers. And we'll do I'm often one of those expert reviewers. And then, we've got, a couple different members of the public that are experts at that expertise that share that. And then we're just now, well, depending on the project, there's different ways that we'll share that data back out and make it available for peer review in one way or the other.

00:47:59:18 - 00:48:03:20
David Moskowitz
So there's transparency in our methods there.

00:48:03:22 - 00:48:30:05
Mark Titus
Beautiful. And, this is all you have a great website. It's linked up here. And we're going to put that in our show notes as well. But if folks, if you want to get involved in some of this, citizen science and public science, by all means, it is a worthy endeavor. I know you bring a lot of human element to the work as well.

00:48:30:05 - 00:48:57:06
Mark Titus
And, and the talks that you give. And what are some of your funniest encounters in the wild with landscapes, animals, people and anything that comes to mind that might, might have been unexpected? Sometimes it comes through misery. Sometimes it comes through happenstance. But are there any things that that, stick out to you, either through the creation of the current book or the work that you've done in the past?

00:48:57:08 - 00:48:59:12
Mark Titus

00:48:59:13 - 00:49:29:04
David Moskowitz
Well, it's an interesting question. I mean, the first thing that came to my mind was my so my previous one of my previous book projects, which was also with braided river called Caribou Rainforest, which is all about a very unique ecosystem in the inland Pacific Northwest, the only intact interior temperate rainforest on the planet, and mountain caribou, which are an endemic species of, or subspecies of caribou that rely on that habitat.

00:49:29:06 - 00:49:48:17
David Moskowitz
For that project, I got really good at figuring out how to track down these elusive mountain caribou. And about two years into the project, I had an epiphany that I could look at a map and pick the spot where I thought mosquitoes would be the worst, and that is where I would probably need to go to find non caribou.

00:49:48:19 - 00:50:14:10
David Moskowitz
And, there's this total like as a recreational list. I'd actually gotten pretty good at being like, oh yeah, I don't think I want to go do this climbing trip in July because the mosquitoes are going to be horrible. So I'll put that off till August, you know. So it's like it's like this reversal where all of a sudden it was like I'm like literally seeking out places where I'm going to be miserable in the mosquitoes because I want to find mountain caribou.

00:50:14:12 - 00:50:23:14
David Moskowitz
And I promised myself that my next project would be looking at some sort of species on a beach in the tropics. But, that hadn't happened.

00:50:23:14 - 00:50:25:20
Mark Titus
So that hasn't happened to me.

00:50:25:21 - 00:50:27:10
David Moskowitz
And kind of. Let's see.

00:50:27:12 - 00:50:49:06
Mark Titus
Yeah, I was going to say, let's see, this is my misery map here. Where can I oh, man. Yeah, I've experienced that up in, Bristol Bay and the it's sometimes it's, it's you can't even explain it. It's just like a dull whine across the entire tundra, and it's just like smoke. It's unreal.

00:50:49:07 - 00:51:11:14
David Moskowitz
Yeah, yeah. And I think it also it's kind of as a storyteller, photographer. The moment you feel like you want to put your camera away because conditions are so miserable, that's probably the most important time to have it out. Like I'm photographing an expedition and it's getting dark and it started to snow and it's freezing cold. Those are the images that are going to tell the story the best.

00:51:11:14 - 00:51:40:02
David Moskowitz
And so I do feel like as a photographer, it is like this, like, you know, race towards the most kind of miserable conditions to get the most compelling photographs. And, you have to really appreciate type two. Fine. You know, it's not like it's art, but it is fun to think about afterwards to to lean into a career during the types of photography that, I think it's true with research as well.

00:51:40:02 - 00:51:49:01
David Moskowitz
You know, a lot of times you end up doing things to collect data that just no sane human would do for recreation alone.

00:51:49:03 - 00:52:12:04
Mark Titus
I've had that feeling so many times. I guess when, when that comes to mind. Most recently was on the up the Selway River and it was getting dark and, started putting things away. And, you know, I was by myself and starting to head back down the road and was like, wait a minute. And stopped just kind of not didn't see anything.

00:52:12:04 - 00:52:43:09
Mark Titus
We just had a feeling and then just had this absolutely beautiful shaft of light come straight up the canyon and shot at, you know, on the drone. And it was like, okay, that was good. Listen, listen, listen. Yeah. Listen to your gut. And yet there is a misery factor there for sure. You know, we're I think you you in earlier about sort of the skepticism around experts using air quotes.

00:52:43:10 - 00:53:23:13
Mark Titus
And and there's no doubt like we are in a time, at least in my life of half a century, that there's never been a greater divide around our, you know, our citizens in, in America. And, do you feel like nature and truly immersing ourselves in nature through the experiences you've done and, and, and as a naturalist and as a hobbyist, is there a common language there that can help heal all these wounds and bridge these divides that are, inherent among.

00:53:23:15 - 00:53:25:13
Mark Titus
Everyday citizens in this country?

00:53:25:15 - 00:53:50:13
David Moskowitz
I mean, certainly shared collective experience helps create a sense of camaraderie and understanding. So, and I think that's something that's been helpful for me, is engaging in activities with people with wildly different, you know, cultural backgrounds and perspectives on the world might not lead me to, like, agree with them, but it leads me to understand them and why they advocate for the things that they they do.

00:53:50:13 - 00:54:23:15
David Moskowitz
And I think that is a critical function of shared collective experience and is that we, especially in such a diverse society, have the capacity to both appreciate our perspective and the reason we think access right and why is wrong. But at the same time, to not just be like, well, anybody that thinks different is bad or incorrect, but to be like, wow, a different cultural lens will yield a different idea about what's right and what's wrong.

00:54:23:17 - 00:54:54:16
David Moskowitz
And I think that humility is a critical part of creating solutions that works for all or as many people as possible. When we have such a diversity of experiences, isn't it that also, I think, rolls over into, care for other species on this planet, which is we might need to stretch a river to make hydropower because we need hydropower to, you know, run the industries that provide sustenance for our people.

00:54:54:18 - 00:55:16:20
David Moskowitz
Which is reasonable, like every species needs to make a living. But that same stretch of river is also an important, piece of real estate for salmon or for beavers or for other species. And they use it in a different way. And it's it's not less valuable for fish than it is for us. Right? It's it's like an appreciation that like, oh, this is how fish see this resource.

00:55:16:20 - 00:55:40:20
David Moskowitz
And this is why they need it to look a certain way. And from that we can start figuring out, like, is there a way for humans to make a living on this stretch of river and for salmon to make a living on this stretch of river in the same way that it'd be like, wow, you know, portraitists have a tradition of agriculture and they produce food for themselves and others, and that's valuable.

00:55:40:22 - 00:56:07:12
David Moskowitz
And we, as you know, somebody that's a conservationist from another place, sees the value in that water being used in a different way. And that is also important. And like, how do we find ways to bridge gaps that are based on different perspectives and different value systems? That can accommodate a wide variety of perspectives and needs, whether it's across species or within, you know, different culture groups within humans.

00:56:07:13 - 00:56:46:20
Mark Titus
I sense the humility in you and in your work and just glancing through your, for instance, clearcutting the Caribou Rainforest. My guess is that's not a prescription you would offer, for interaction and relationship with the land. But when you look at these photographs of yours, there is a very real humanity and a humility. I think by gaining the trust in these folks, these, loggers, you know, and photographing them in a very human and dignified way and, I, I, for one, believe that's a way forward.

00:56:46:22 - 00:56:50:01
Mark Titus
So I thank you. Thank you for that work.

00:56:50:03 - 00:56:51:15
David Moskowitz
Yeah, absolutely.

00:56:51:17 - 00:57:11:20
Mark Titus
Well, we've come toward the end of our show here for today, and, Thank you. It's been just wonderful getting to know you a little bit. Your work is astonishing. And we're going to again link up all of the links to find David's work here in our, show notes. But we have a bonus round here. Nobody escapes it.

00:57:11:20 - 00:57:29:17
Mark Titus
And, it's just a fun little thought exercise. Being in the world of climate change that we are, I just want you to imagine for a moment that it's not going to happen, knock on wood, but say there was a fire coming toward your house, which, you know, is not impossible these days.

00:57:29:18 - 00:57:31:09
David Moskowitz
Right? Yeah, it's certainly possible.

00:57:31:11 - 00:57:43:19
Mark Titus
Exactly. And you get clearly you get out your loved ones and your critters, they're they're safe. But if there's only one physical thing you could take, what would that be?

00:57:43:21 - 00:57:49:04
David Moskowitz

00:57:49:06 - 00:57:54:08
David Moskowitz
I mean, we've got a list of things in our house that are supposed to go like the one backpack of stuff. So this is.

00:57:54:08 - 00:57:55:02
Mark Titus
What you do.

00:57:55:04 - 00:58:21:09
David Moskowitz
This is not a critical subject. I've watched wildfires in the battle. But if I, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's like we've got a lock box. It's a, it's a very it's a very like, not very exciting answer, but we've got a fire safe that includes, you know, documents and hard drives of some photos and a few critical things.

00:58:21:09 - 00:58:45:09
David Moskowitz
And I think I would just take that and walk away. And as I, I it's an exercise thinking about that as an exercise and, and non-attachment. Exactly. Recognizing that, you build a lot of things in your life and collect a lot of things, but at the end you can't take it with you. So how do you live with that in mind?

00:58:45:11 - 00:59:04:22
Mark Titus
That's that's kind of the point. You know, for sure. Well, one last one if you if it's not a physical thing, if it's if you could only take one, one trait about you that makes you most you and most alive and most luminous in your life, what would be that trait that you would take?

00:59:05:00 - 00:59:06:02
David Moskowitz
Persistence.

00:59:06:04 - 00:59:07:07
Mark Titus

00:59:07:09 - 00:59:14:17
David Moskowitz
There is a I would say that I don't have a whole lot of skill in things, but I'm willing to do it for long enough to get the results that I want.

00:59:14:19 - 00:59:27:16
Mark Titus
I very much identify with that exact sentiment. So thank you for sharing that. All right. Well, David, how can folks find and support you in this beautiful work that you're doing?

00:59:27:18 - 00:59:50:15
David Moskowitz
Yeah, I mean, through my website, David Moskowitz, Dot net is, great way or on Instagram. Moskowitz underscore David and I do have a Patreon site, where if you want to back my work, all of that money goes to helping me donate work to conservation organizations that can't afford to pay for it. And, yeah, we'd be grateful for support through that for sure.

00:59:50:17 - 00:59:58:04
Mark Titus
Beautiful. And again, linked up in the show notes. David Moskowitz, thank you for joining us here on See What You Love and we'll see you down the trail.

00:59:58:06 - 01:00:00:00
David Moskowitz
Sounds great. Good to chat.

01:00:00:02 - 01:00:03:07
Mark Titus
See you soon. Bye bye.

01:00:03:09 - 01:00:34:15
Music
How do you say what you love?
How do you say what you love?
How do you say what you love?
How do you say what you love?

01:00:34:17 - 01:00:58:17
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to Save What You Love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on whatever platform you're listening from and leaving a comment on Apple Podcasts. It really helps get the word out. Check out photos on our Instagram feed. We're at Save What You Love podcast, and you can get links from today's featured guest in the show notes of this episode.

01:00:58:19 - 01:01:27:15
Mark Titus
Join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter at evaswild.com, and then clicking on connect in the upper corner. You'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door, and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way. That said, Evaswild.com the word save spelled backwards, wild.com. This episode was produced by Emilie Firn and edited by Patrick Troll.

01:01:27:17 - 01:01:33:14
Mark Titus
Original music was created by Whiskey Class. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you all down the trail.

More episodes

Chapters

Creators & Guests

What is Save What You Love with Mark Titus?