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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
Mike Parsons: Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It is a sensational. It is a super sporty
Mark Pearson-Freeland: episode, 78
Mike Parsons: on your cohost by Parsons. And as always I'm joined by the athlete himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Good morning. Co teammates, captain and a basketball Xtrordinair. Mike, how are you doing?
Mike Parsons: They call me Mike, you can just call me His Airness.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Oh, I love it.
Good word.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I'll be the defensive guy.
Mike Parsons: You could be Dennis Rodman. You could be maybe Scotty Pippin, but if we are. Leading the witness just a little bit. My get everybody out of their misery. What is the focus of this very new series? And one of the most exciting shows of the year.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: So we've had a great few sessions.
We've talked about the media innovators. We delved into Adam Grant and really focused on three of his key books and, and big ideas about resilience. We're now taking, like you say, Mike, a little bit of a step change on the court, and now we're focusing really exciting. On the sports innovator series. And today on episode 78, we're going to be focusing on the man, the myth, the legend that is Michael Jordan.
I mean, he's one of the basketball players of all time. Isn't a, you know, I couldn't even list all of his. Accolades Mike, I think he's got many, I'd probably run out of breath and we probably run out of time on the show, really celebrating all of his career as well as the influence that he's had on the game itself.
Um,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: what, what, what immediately comes to mind, Mike, when you were thinking about Michael Jordan and getting excited about covering him in one of our episodes will moonshots.
You know, um, for me, I grew up with, with Michael Jordan, so, Mmm. He was so much an inspiration. Um, and even growing up in, in Sydney, Australia, he, he affected us greatly.
We're all wearing Jordans. We're all shooting hoops. I mean, it was remarkable. And I think that the context of why he is so important is obviously we've had this huge Netflix documentary series, the last dance. And, uh, this has been perfect work from home quarantine fodder. If you thought tiger King was good.
I would say the last time it takes it another level, but for me, it was a reminder of Mike. For me, this series that you should all check out on, Netflix went so much further in showing us the backstory of the six world championship win that they had. And it was incredibly behind the scenes VIP access, and it showed us, uh, really what it takes and the effort.
And, uh, not only the adulation and the attention, but just the sheer hard work. I mean, it's a very special series. The last dance on a very special athlete. Michael Jordan, wouldn't you say Marcie Murph.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I mean, it's pretty amazing. I must admit I'm only about halfway through because,
uh,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, I had to, I had to get a piece of the action, um, for me, my.
I suppose first experience with, with Jordan was probably when the film space jam came out, uh, which was in 96. Uh, so I must've been about sprightly 10, I suppose, but even then I remember, you know, watching it and thinking, Oh, I've got to, I've got to get a basketball. I've got to get out there and start shooting some hoops.
And it was, it was an inspirational film, but. What's interesting. When, you know, we've been digging into the last dance and Dean to Michael Jordan and all of the fantastic clips and speeches and awards that he's received over over the years and the hall of fame, um, uh, speeches and talks that he's done is this idea of, of, of guidance that he can give us.
When you say mom, this direction that he can give us from being the greatest basketball player, maybe one of the greatest sportsmen of all time. And the lessons that we can learn from him with regards to activity mindset, you know, I'm not going to give away all the clips
right now. I've really
Mark Pearson-Freeland: enjoyed getting into Jordan because it's quite inspirational.
It's a great way to approach
your work. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely inspirational, but instructional as well. What's actually really good about, um, sports. Is that because of the clarity of, you know, Points when lost there's a field, you gotta stay inside the lines. Um, they tend to articulate the rules for success, even clearer than entrepreneurs, because success is slightly more a morphous or ambiguous with entrepreneurship.
What is really exciting is we have an action packed show ahead. We have asked slew of inspirational clips that will. If you're listening to this in bed, which is rather cozy thought, but this will certainly get you out of the bed. If you haven't had your espresso, this will do the job of an espresso. This show.
It's going to be amazing. And as you can tell, I'm just a little bit excited about this one, but I think that the important thing to call out is everything we're going to share decode and learn from Michael Jordan relates to you. If you're an athlete, Oh, not if you're a builder designer, creator entrepreneur, or you're just trying to be better in life.
We've got a ton of lessons about self-improvement hard work. Tackling a adversity and having a vision, having a will to succeed it's all in front of us. So I can't wait to get into the show, but before we do so we've got to give some shout outs. We've got to remind people. Where does the moonshots universe center around?
What is the destination Mark or
Mark Pearson-Freeland: the destination that the central court, the Madison Madison square garden online is moonshots.io. You can find all of our previous 77 shows the Adam Grant's series, the Simon Sinek series. Everything's online. Our show notes. Transcriptions are there too. If you really want to get into some of the finer things we talk about as well as a little bit of a sneak peek into some of our upcoming shows such as the remainder of our sports innovator series.
Absolutely. And, um, we smashed the a hundred reviews and ratings Mark. So we want to thank all of you. Uh, who've been so kind and generous with your time. And just a reminder, if you're listening to the show right now and you're able to get out your podcast app, grab it, whether it's . Whether it's the Apple iOS, whether it is Spotify, uh, give us a thumbs up, give us a rating.
If you can leave a comment, because this is how folks find out about us. And we've been as a thanks to you and your contribution. We've been rocketing up all the podcast charts, um, and we've got some cool new countries that we've hit the top hundred in or in Poland for the first time. Indonesia. Check this one out Mark Bulgaria this week.
I mean, this is so exciting to see that people far and wide are listening to the show and it's. Really really important that if you do get the chance to give it a rating or to give us a review, it means that other folks that you know, or perhaps folks that you don't know can find out about the show and it really helps us get the word out.
Um, now Mark, we, we got a really interesting email, um, uh, one of these emails. So we love it. When folks, uh, listening to the show, send us an email. Quick stairway. Mark. What's the email address. If folks want to send us an email?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: hello@moonshots.io, please. As you say, Mike, read in touch. We'd love to hear from all of our listeners and we find a way we'll make sure to reply to absolutely everything that you send us.
Absolutely. And I'm the one I wanted to pick out, uh, this week hails from new Delhi, India from my Yankee cholera. And we wanted to say a big thank you to them for hitting us up. They'd actually been digging around and found, uh, my ANC had actually found one of our old Simon Sinek shows and, uh, it was so great to hear from you, so wonderful to hear how.
People really love us learning out loud and sharing thoughts, learning from innovators and just try to be just that little bit better. So thank you to all the listeners in new Delhi, India. We appreciate your feedback. But I think Mark has the time
come.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I think the time has come for us to begin our deep dive, our exploration into the game and the world.
Of Michael Jordan.
I feel like I'm the most fused competitive. There is. I don't think I'm ever going to find something to equal the game of basketball for me.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: They talk about guys being competitors. It was the fiercest
of all the competitors. I though Jesus worked seven days a week, six days. He risked on Sunday dinner.
Michael Jordan played on Sunday night
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and the SASA personify
that had that. Instinct.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I'm not sure if people really know
how good this guy is.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Michael Jordan is best. There's very few people on this planet that can do
this for me. Michael Jordan was, it was a killer. It didn't matter. He wanted to come in and kill you. What motivates me is the unknown and we know they can all speculate. No one really knows and myself, I didn't know, but that I didn't let that stop me.
You know, I would let them motivate me more so than anything. As long as it's unknown, that means I have a chance, you know, and that's the way I've been shooting my whole career. No matter what the game is, who you're playing against, you have to want the ball, the clock, the pressure block.
All you think about is what you have to do to win. That's why I love the end of the day. We got to come down to that one moment when it's all in my hand.
Good morning, ladies.
Don't always have to get the last shot, but I do have to walk away knowing I did everything I could to win the game. You step on the floor. It doesn't matter how many times you've done it before all the managers that you do it. Now, those are the moments you put in now as a practice for those other ones, you never forget
about last skill because I put in the work ethic eliminates here. So if you put forth the work and what are you thinking, you know what you're capable of doing what you're not, I've never been afraid of. Afraid means you are not confident in your skills. I have total confidence in my skills.
Be true to the game because the game would be true to you. If you try to shortcut the game, then the game is going to shortcut you. If you put forth effort, the thing to be bestowed upon you that's truly about the game. And in some ways that's about light too.
Whew. Now that is an ultimate competitive mind. And there was a lot in that some of those clips will be expanded upon throughout the show, but this sets the scene. This sets the kind of environment that sets the universe in which Michael Jordan inhabited. And you hear a lot. Inside of what he said in that clip around hard work, about possibilities, about him turning up every single day.
And I want to remind everyone that. This applies to every single one of us, no matter what we're doing, it is really a fundamental thing we're going to learn today that it is the choice you make about your mindset is the single most determinant factor in your success. And when you have this all lined up and ready to go, amazing things can happen.
So Mark is your appetite ready for a ton of lessons from none other than Michael Jordan?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It is just to build on what you're saying, that it's a great, um, you know, inspirational character study that very, very sneak peak. Like you say, it's teasing a little bit of the lessons that we're going to
talk about today.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: For me, I'm really excited to get into it because I do have moments where. I, I, you know, question my abilities and, you know, ultimately that comes down to confidence. But when you listen to Jordan talking then, and again, like we said, at the beginning of the show, it transcends sport and it trickles into business and our everyday lives, he did everything he could to win the game.
And that inspires me and pushes me to do everything that I can. There's no fear that, that I should have when I'm approaching my. Business or
work or
Mark Pearson-Freeland: to do list, you know? Well, I'm well, I'm, I'm really excited now to get into the next few clips, because then we can start learning about that. A little bit of learning and
resilience
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and Mike, in fact, why don't we just jump straight into the next clip?
You know, why don't we really get into Jordan talking about what it takes to put in and get out the best version of yourself. Hard work. And the first clip that we're going to delve into now is Jordan really talking about how important practice is
this, this whole thing about your practicing? I mean, if you talk to any of your teammates, they would say, even if they saw something in a game as like, shoot, you should have saw him Thursday
practice with you was like, like they had a game instead of a practice. And when I got to the pros with Kevin mockery, You know, when I was drafted, number three, Kevin Locke, he used to put me on the starting five. We used to be killing the second five, but he wanted to test me out so we can be with you.
Let's say I'm going to eight and it can be five to one or five to two against the second team. If you lose, you got it. Right. He was switch me in the middle of the game to the second. And I'm saying, well, okay, you try to pool point, boom. We have bounced back and win the game. Those are all training tools every day in practice.
Was like that, to me, it was a competition. So when the game comes, this nothing that I haven't already practiced, it's a routine, you know, whatever happens in the game now. Okay. I've done this before.
was fear of failure. A motivator and that if I never feared about my skills, you know, because I put in the work
work ethic, eliminates fear, you know? So if you put forth the work, then what are you fearing? You know, you, what you capable of doing what you're not. I practices if I'm playing in the game, So when the moment comes in the game, it's not new to me. That's the beauty of the game of basketball. That's the reason why you practice that's the effort.
So when you get to that moment, you don't have to think instinctively thing, work eliminates fear, Mark. This is such a huge thought because when we are scared, And I talk about public speaking a lot when I'm too nervous, when I'm scared to talk. What that is telling me is I haven't done the work. I haven't done the preparation beforehand.
And what we hear here, Mark is he puts all the work in at training so he can be great in the game. I think this is a very, very powerful lesson. I mean,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: for me, I think it actually might be one of the most. Powerful lessons in recent memory and not to pick it up too much, but this I think is so, so true across every industry, sector and mindset, once you've cracked that work ethic.
And once you work as hard as you possibly can you have that confidence? So that lack of confidence that I was just. Referencing in myself. You know, if I, if I turn the mirror around for a second, it's probably because I haven't done. The hard work. And it's probably because I don't know the subject well enough.
And when you're preparing for a keynote speech mic, I would love to hear your sort of techniques as to how you do prepare and give yourself that confidence, you know, do you,
um,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: record it in advance? Do you, uh, do a practice walk through? What are you, what are your techniques when you're, when you're prep?
What is, what is your practice?
Yeah, so for me, so to answer your question around, um, you know, doing a big presentation, um, with, with a group of people like with a client or alternatively, uh, in a public forum, it is all about preparation. I've talked about the seven day rule before, but I'll, I'll get into a little bit of, uh, the practices that I use to try and be better.
Number one. I'll write the outline a week out. Number two, I will rehearse this speech no less than five times before I give it. I will record the speech with the voice memo app on my phone and listen to it. As I walk to work and make little notes to myself about, Oh, that didn't sound quite right. I try to get myself to the point.
Either when talking with clients, giving public speeches, or just talking about my practice that I know it's so deeply. And so intuitively that it just comes out like I'm, you know, when you're, when you're giving a talk, you're like, you're trying to think of what comes next. That means you've not prepared enough when you just tell the story and it just flows outside of you.
That's where you want to get to. So a great way to know. Let's say, uh, you or any of the listeners are giving a big presentation tomorrow? I would be looking to do a full run through before, uh, at the end of the day. And I might listen back to it. And then in the morning, I need to be able to write out like a half page of bullet points about the key topics I'm going to cover in the talk.
If I can do that unaided as, uh, recalling that actively, right. Um, Go have a listen to our County Newport shows. If you want to learn more about how to do that, if you can just sit there in the morning and just write out your talk intuitively with flow, without looking at your notes, then that's a very good sign that.
You know your stuff for me, that's the practice, but more wider yet. Mark, for me, writing every day, writing a journal, writing articles, making masterclasses. This is my practice. Um, and doing this show with you, funnily enough, just to make this a little meta, this is my practice. What's yours.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I mean, first of all, what a number of terrific.
Um, you know, Tibbs, you've just, you've just highlighted, like you say to our listeners do go and check out Cal and the series on,
on
Mark Pearson-Freeland: his amazing work, because there's a lot of great tips on how to become
a straight a student. So for me,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I totally agree. With the recording aspect. And I've done that before.
If I'm due to, I haven't necessarily got to the keynote stage, but if I'm briefing a huge amount of people before, or during a project for me, I will record myself giving that.
Uh, talk or
Mark Pearson-Freeland: at least pitch. And then I will, like, you listened to it on the morning of the session to, you know, stimulate my brain into that.
I'm also a firm believer in talking somebody through things without having. Notes or a prompt. So I love taking notes. I'm taking notes as you and I are recording this episode. For example, I take notes all the time on a number of
different mediums,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: but what I like is when I can put that down and explain the idea to somebody without my notes, because then like MJ is talking to us about, you know, What's that worth ethic eliminates the fear.
And when you're in that grape flow, when you know the subject, so well, it is such a confidence
boost that you
Mark Pearson-Freeland: can just sit back. You've already practiced. There's no like, like Jordan saying to us, he's not out on the court and he's experiencing something he's never seen before, because he's already experienced everything in the practice run.
And that's such an easy way. Yeah, he's worked. He's worked so hard in practice that working hard in the game is he's just used to it. It doesn't feel like Aw, some big moment. No, it's just how he does it. Totally.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And so, you know, for me, if anything, it's, it's a little bit inspiring to hear from Jordan as well as yourself.
Which is right. If I've got a spare moment, if I've got a time in my day or weekend or whatever it might be when I think, Oh, you know what. I could do a little bit of X, you know, obviously it's really important to give you a break.
Of course,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: that's where,
you know, step one, I suppose,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: but the idea of, okay, well, let me just go over it one more time.
If I'm feeling a little bit anxious about something. Let me reread it. Let me research it. I'll go on YouTube. Maybe I'll listen to one of the other 77 shows on the moonshots podcast.
Oh, that's a great idea. I love that idea. Great preparation, which,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: which would just get me thinking in that way. And yeah, I don't know.
There's something there that is almost a reminder to me that that more can be done. And I think that's what you're telling us.
Yeah. So I think the big takeout here for all of us is what is your training room? What's your gym, what's your practice for the big game? Um, and you know, the funny thing is Mike, I see a lot of people in work, just don't put in the practice that I'm putting the work people just don't.
No, their staff well enough. So if you make this decision to know your stuff, I believe that you already are ascending because. If you've decided to put in the hard work, it really opens you up to this next idea from Michael, which is, and this is where we're going to get really mad at. And it's so powerful is he doesn't stop the hard work.
In fact, hard work is a continuum for him because he believes to always be improving. It's almost like potential has no limit, which is just insane. So let's have a listen. To the man himself, Michael Jordan talking about always improving. Never I'm at my best. I feel I still have room to improve. I still set goals for myself to strive for.
Uh, I'm never complacent with whatever cheat. Uh, even though it's been very successful for me, I still feel I have a lot to prove, not just as a player, but as a person, as a father, to some extent as a role model, uh, in all aspects, um, Never really too complacent with myself or with what I've achieved. When I get to a point where I feel I can improve as a player, I walk away from the game.
I'm still feel that I have a Pat told that, you know, I hadn't reached yet in terms of my skills on my, my ex lactations on myself. You know, I'm always going to expect myself to do certain things or surpass certain things. As long as I believe that then, you know, Success is can continue to expand.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You know, even though, you know, he's the greatest basketball player of all time, what he's saying to us here is even he has room
to improve,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, once he notices it and, uh, you know, he adopts this never be complacent attitude.
Empowers him to, you know, go and explore ways to continue improving. You know, if you are always expecting something more of yourself and you're reflecting on how you're performing and you're considering your reaction to things or, you know, your performance on the court or in the office, in the, in the boardroom.
So to speak
that work hard
Mark Pearson-Freeland: attitude and that never fair attitude that we, you know, we heard in the previous clip. Just keeps on going, you know, you can always be that best version of yourself, I think is what Jordan is saying. And again, that's, that's a challenge, right? When you say it's a challenge to always be working your hardest and never being complacent,
it is, it is.
And, um, I think, I think what I try to do is find the right level between. Um, being in the moment and saying, well done. And whilst on the other hand, always saying, okay, there's more right. I think I was very guilty in the early part of my career of being so relentless that. I probably failed to be in the moment a bit and I exhausted myself as well.
Um, so you have to be a little careful here, but what I love is again, we're taught it's mindset. Um, basically Jordan's saying, um, yeah, there's always room to improve. The possibilities are endless. Um, you know, um, And I think that isn't that just exciting that clearly the best ever basketball player in history is like, Nope, has room to improve.
Carrie
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you're right. There is that the other side of this coin is we all should take a moment to say, well done either to ourselves or to colleagues when something great is achieved. And I don't think that clip is Jordan saying, Hey, Look when I got the championship, I wasn't complacent, you know, I'm sure he did celebrate.
I mean, even, um,
Yeah. One of
Mark Pearson-Freeland: my favorite sportsmen of all time, Johnny Wilkinson, you know, he, uh, found it a challenge sometimes to be complacent. You know, he, even when he won the world cup, let's not dwell on that too much. Uh,
you know, don't want to make anything better,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: but he said, you know, as soon as, as they were done, he went straight back into practice.
And I think actually upon reflection, you know, I did some work with him. Back in my time in the UK, he actually said he was too hard on himself and he should have taken a moment to breathe and, and look on the positive and say, well done. But at the same time again, on the other side of that coin, is this drive that both Jordan, as well as Johnny Wilkinson are saying, which is keep on working hard, don't be complacent.
If you can go that little bit extra, go that extra mile or that extra inch as opportunity once told us, um, you know, that's great. And then we can eventually go back and say, we did everything we could. We worked hard.
And
Mark Pearson-Freeland: that's where I would be.
I totally agree. I think we've established such a good baseline, which is hard work and always improving as just two of the many, many, many lessons we can take from Michael Jordan who was really in the end, the ultimate.
Competitor. And just to give you a sense of things, if you are one of our younger listeners and you're thinking, yeah, but you know, LeBron's pretty great. Well, let me help you here. Um,
Michael Jordan has won six championships. LeBron three, Michael Jordan has been the MVP. In every single world champ finals for the NBA that he played in. Wow. I mean, and the guy goes away in the middle of his career to play baseball for two years and. Many criticize his baseball career. But do you realize that he's batting average was only two Oh two, but to give you an idea, there were first round draft rookies in the Chicago side that didn't bat as well as Jordan.
And he'd been an NBA player all his life. So. It is amazing because he then came back to basketball. And if you have watched the last dance, you will know that he came back hungrier, tougher and more mentally strong than you could ever have imagined. Uh, so he won three in a row. Spent some time out, came back and his first full season back, he won it again.
And the next two consecutive ones. Before we go into the next bevy of clips where it's all about mental models. Which have got lessons brimming for all of us. If someone wants to check in on some of the past shows too, where do they journey in this wonderful constellation of websites,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: please direct yourselves to moonshots.io.
All of our show notes are archived shows and episodes. I'm a sneak peek of some of the future coverage that we'll be doing,
uh, transcripts,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: everything, a plethora of stuff. It's all online@moonshots.io, including our recent Adam Grant's series, who also delves into this idea of resilience, of hard work. You know, he referenced a few classical painters and composers
who are a lot like Jordan,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: weren't always stuck into one thing.
They managed to pick up hobbies, try different things. And the only reason why they're successful arguably is because of that ability to. Move around a little bit, try something new, be creative. And I think that's what we found out in the grand series was this idea of innovation can be anywhere, no matter what your, your sector is.
So even with Jordan becoming a baseball plant, that's an innovation. That's him going to try something new.
And absolutely fearless, absolutely fearless. And that really goes to the heart of how he sees the world when you might even say, uh, he's mental models. And now what we're going to do is to throw ourselves deep into some of the thinking that led to him being not only the greatest basketball or a full time, but the highest paid athlete.
Of all time, uh, the air Jordan brand is so massive. Um, so I mean, if you just, you know, being the best basketball player wasn't enough, he just happens to created one of the biggest brands in together with Nike, but let's now let's like root ourselves in, in how he thinks cognitively what's going on up there.
And what happens when he's practicing hard and he's always trying to improve. But he fails. Let's let's listen to Michael Jordan talking about how we can fail your way. To success.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It's one in
9,000 shots in my career,
I've lost almost 300 games, 26 times. I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Oh, I mean talk about inspiration. You know, this is, this is a great little mental model coming through in a, a pretty well famous Nike ad. This is Jordan saying it's okay to fail.
I mean, imagine being the greatest basketball of all time, a basketball player of all time being in 26 game winning moments that he could go and win the game, but he's missed it. A buddy still comes back the next day. He still turns up. He has that resilience
and that ethic
Mark Pearson-Freeland: that powers him through. He's not, you know, lounging around feeling sorry for himself.
He's getting up dusting himself off and trying again. And that trying again, just keeps on getting him better for me. Uh, you know, if I turn the mic around for a second, I think there have been moments when I've. Felt like I've lost the game winning shot. And you know, you do want to take a moment to question everything around you.
What led to it? Am I doing the right thing? Is this my passion, but that's okay. Because like Jordan is saying to us, just take that moment to turn it into a bit of an opportunity to learn. And the reason why I could be successful is because of those experiences that I've. And I've gone and done. What, what do you, what do you get from that, Mike?
So here's the interesting thing. If you look at failure as the opportunity to learn, and it brings you closer to success, well then number one, the failure doesn't feel quite as bad. If you know that failure is a legitimate step on the way to success. And you're like, okay, that sucked didn't feel great.
But I know that's part of me getting closer to being successful. I think that's really important to know because, and here's the big one when faced with failure. Most of us give up when faced with it. Didn't work out. We reject it. You know, the classic thing I've been guilty of is if I fail in a game, well, that game doesn't matter.
That doesn't mean I don't like it anyway. I don't want to play that game again, socks, but let's be true. That's just me. Being hurt. Right. So what's really interesting. I think if you just go, it sucks, but I know it's part of the journey. The beauty is that whatever you're trying to do, you will know that most of the other people trying to do the same thing as you will give up.
Yeah, because that's human nature. So these, yeah, this is great investor, Paul Graham, and we've done a show with him. Check it out on the archive. moonshots.io. He talks about survival is success because most companies fail and in all of this. What we are seeing is this dedication to hard work is a huge theme across the 78 shows, hard work and persistence, but then where we go next level, Michael Jordan Zahara, who did, uh, the architect, both of them were able to see.
Adversity and failure as actually fueling their success. It made them stronger. And I think if we look at things in our lives, personal professional or anything in between, and just say, okay, that sucks, but I know that's part of the journey. I know I'm going to found my way to success. I think this reframes everything, and then we don't give up.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And what's fantastic about that. Like you say, we've seen Zahara. We've seen the lessons, Adam Grant episode 76, when we covered originals, Beethoven, Mozart, they, their hit rate of composed tracks versus all of the work that they did in the past. Not everything's succeeded. You don't come out with your game, winning shot every single time.
But like you say, Mike, and just to, just to add to it
that.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You know, going through the experience and turning it into an opportunity is what we're going to see in the next clip. Because every moment, whether it's negative or positive positives, a little bit easier, but when it's negative and you just want to look at that adversity and think, nah, Forget about it, I'm out.
And you want to quit. What Jordan's saying in this next clip is that that adversity is an opportunity for growth.
Sports is a, is, is, is a tool that teaches, you know, and it teaches you bad things. It can also teach good things. It's how you proceed those things. I've looked at every experience that I've had negative and positive and taking that as a positive, you know, if I wouldn't change anything, because I think it would all, some of the other things that happen, you know, so.
When I look back, I can't say that I've had any bad things happen. Sure. I mean, you don't want bad things to happen, but you deal with bad things. You can't have good or without bad, um, toughness through adversity. Um, He's just refusing to accept things as a negative. Did you hear that at the beginning, Mark is just like, Nope.
Negative negative situation doesn't exist. Everything's positive. I'm telling everything. Isn't that amazing,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know? You don't want to go back in time and change anything in the past, whether it's
Kenya. So why, if you can't go back and do it a different way than why be so beat up about the past and full of regret and disappointment.
Just be, again, the mindset here is just everything's the positive use everything. And he was phenomenal at taking the, um, the. Why other play players would talk to him at him, they would criticize him. He didn't take it to heart. And you know, in the last answers is so amazing. There's like three or four occasions where an opposing player, either on the court or in a press conference, say stuff to Mike and Jordan just goes next level in the game.
Like by the end of the show, when, when in, in the Utah series in the sixth world championship, this guy's been talking smack to Michael Jordan, and you're literally watching the show shouting at your television saying, dude, don't talk to MJ like that. You get a regret. And Michael Jordan. Wow. He won the, he won the series for them.
He went in with this shot, um, and he destroyed this opposition player, uh, from, from Utah jazz. And he made him an embarrassment of him because he used that guy's criticism as a. Motivator for himself. Um, and so everything he's like, you got something bad to say about me. Good. Cause I need to, I need to be the energy for this guy
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and the energy for fuel.
Isn't it? You know, he's, he's a sportsman, he'll be thinking about, uh, you know, every single play and attitude and so on. And what I'm hearing from you, Mike is, you know, he's taking these moments of being pulled out or somebody, you know, Disrespect him, whatever. And he's using it as that fire within him to go next level, which, you know, from a business perspective, in a, in a leadership perspective, it's equally true.
You know, if there are moments when you're getting, um, You know, perhaps feedback from a colleague or a, or a leader or a manager or whatever, or maybe even from a client or external partner, if you're getting that little bit of feedback, think of it as not a personal attack against you, but think about it as a constructive opportunity to better yourself to improve, to use it as a, a little bit of a.
Energy beneath you that then can drive you forward. And I, I, I think what Jordan is saying here is something that we can all try to replicate. Wouldn't you say?
Yeah. I re I really do. I think, um, it's not easy. And I think, um, I think the earlier thought from Jordan about failing your way to success, knowing that it's just a legitimate part of the process.
Um, I think that's really helpful when you can. Can see these things come in. You're like, okay, that sucked. We'll see, we'll fix it. We'll sort it. I know. That's just part of it. And, um, you know, I, I have all these little things where I, where I kind of, when I'm in a really challenging moment or time I might okay.
This isn't that bad, like number one, I'm alive. And number two, I have family and friends and great colleagues. Okay. Take a breath, actually. Yeah. You know what things are catty. And, um, another thing that I do is when bad news comes, when something doesn't go right, is don't avoid it. I mean, what I try to do is I try to go into the pain.
I try to go into the problem as quick as possible to break it down, start coming to terms with it and to start solving and getting over the hump. So I'm interested when, when you're trying to get through some adversity, you have some practices Mark, that you try to kind of. Get your arena, Michael Jordan going,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I try to ignore it for as long as possible.
You know, I think the natural human response is to, you know, stay away from averse to where possible, you know, it's that, it's the thrive perspective.
What I've tried
Mark Pearson-Freeland: to, uh,
you know,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: notice in myself as I, as I get older and so on
is.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I can read my, my body pretty well. If it's feeling that little bit of anxiety, it's possible that I don't have, like we were talking about earlier, the complete confidence in what I'm doing.
And the only way as Jordan's telling us to do is to be resilient. Don't be complacent. If you want to get rid of that anxiety of lack of confidence, go and work hard at going. Practice me with, with this particular. You know, idea, which is what you're saying, Mike, around going towards the pain. I think that's, I think that's a strong approach because much like ripping off a bandaid, it gets it out the way.
And it does turn that negative moment into that opportunity a lot quicker. I think it's very, very easy to see a, a bit of bad news as a, um, A speed bump and inevitably, you're going to have to go over it. You know, you can't go back in time. You can't change the journey necessarily in this case, you're going to go over it at one point or another.
You might as well just keep on going on the same route and address it quicker because then you do get that moment
of learning.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And you do get that moment of changing the perspective into one of a positive thing,
you
Mark Pearson-Freeland: know, for me, I think
from a
Mark Pearson-Freeland: practice perspective, yeah. I'm going to, I'm definitely going to start doing that.
What I do right now is like I say, I recognize my, my body, my, my behavior, maybe my mindset. Um, and I will, I'll try to actively. You know, pick up the phone
or
Mark Pearson-Freeland: call out whatever that issue might be in order to try and to try and get into improve.
Yeah. Yeah. So we're learning that there's a whole universe of different mental models, whether it's thriving through competition, hard work, hard practice, always seeing room for improvement, and then really starting to see that you will get some bumps along the way.
And failure is a legitimate part of the journey and that you can actually take all of those negatives and turn them into positives. And we've talked. A lot of these ideas, we've talked through the lens of Michael Jordan himself. But what's really interesting is to hear the reflections of some of his teammates about the good and the bad of being a teammate for Michael Jordan.
And this is actually a little bit that's taken from the documentary that our stance, and let's have a listen now to, um, guys talking about Jordan, his tenacity, his intensity, and his will to be the best.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: People were
afraid of him.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: We were as teammates and we were afraid of him
and there was just fear going into it. I didn't do it to you go to this guy over play fear, factor and love of MTA was so, so
Mark Pearson-Freeland: thick.
Yeah. Let's not get it wrong. He was,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: he was a jerk. He crossed the line
numerous times, but as time goes on and.
Back about what he was actually trying to accomplish. You're like, yeah, he was a hell of a teammate. He was pushing us all to be better because he wanted to win. And guess what? It worked, we kind of needed that. You know what I'm saying? I needed him to be the bag. Uh, the tough guy.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah, what's different about this clip, like you say, Mike is until now we've really listened to Michael's intentional, um, approaches to resilience, to hard work, and what's different and interesting about this clip, you know, Scotty Pippin.
So on is you're hearing from the team. Receiving or noticing the benefit that Jordan was bringing to that game and to that team through his, again, resilience hard work, discipline, practicing on a Sunday, you know, this as well as maybe, you know, the, uh, the sharpness of his insults, whatever it might be.
There's a, there's a leadership quality. Within Jordan, that's coming through here that is positively benefiting the team. You know, his, uh,
commitment,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: focus, this mindset of constantly striving to be the best version of himself actually brings the team around him up. He was, you know, even in the episodes that I've seen, he was so committed to making the team the best version of the team.
You know, he wanted the bows to go as far as they could. He wanted the franchise to be, you know, Incredibly popular and wants three when we listened to the team and that clip is this, you know, awareness of those around him and appreciation that he was the one driving them. I think that's, I think that's a fantastic metaphor for the office.
You know, it's great to be surrounded by people we get on with, you can go to the pub with whatever it might be, but actually the best way to. Um, you know, see positive change in, in a business scenario is probably when you're surrounded by those who are challenging you as well as the business itself to go that step further and be that version of the business.
And it can be,
yes. Well, you know, the funny thing is that they didn't win in his first two seasons if the bulls, uh, and many, uh, experts, um, Comment that the change, the winning change was that Jordan learned to pass. And, uh, it's absolutely fascinating, uh, how important it was, uh, that he. Learn to play as a team and not as an individual and that he learns to help those around him, improve with him that he didn't always try and take the last shot.
The, uh, Steve Kurt, the famous. Uh, coach of the, um, the warriors in San Francisco, um, Steph, Carrie, and team, he was on Jordan's team and, um, they didn't get on so well at the beginning, but then towards the end, Michael actually gives Kerr a couple of times the chance to make the winning shots or in particular in the sixth championship, uh, in the final series, Kurt.
Changes the momentum of the series with one shot. And it was a pass from Michael to Kerr to make that shot. And you see that Kerr credits, Michael trusting him was the hugest endorsement, the confidence at all the confidence he needed. And then after that he was on fire. So it is so amazing that the leadership starts with.
W being the one that gets to training first leaves last, uh, works harder than anybody else that sets the standard that sets the, the body language, if you will, but then helping the others rise to the occasion. I mean, It's it's, it's amazing to hear the effect that he has had. And I would say that when you compare MJ to a number of the other players, it's perhaps that he truly worked out that setting a standard and keeping the team accountable to that standard and helping those rise around him.
Was perhaps in fact the thing that really differentiated him, that's why, you know, he won three in a row, twice in a row. So he won three when played baseball for a couple of years, came back and won another three. I mean, is what a Testament to a person who can. Be a pro in both sports to be the best and one of them to created the biggest personalized sports brand in the planet.
Um, I think it's like now, so it's like about a quarter of Nike's business is the. The air Jordan brand.
Um, so what's so beautiful is that all the different things we've talked about on this show, Mark, all of the energy that competitiveness, the hard work, all of this, this finding, uh, opportunity and hardship, all of this comes down to Michael's mental strength. And so I want to unleash upon us and our audience in all four corners of the globe.
I want to unleash out. Last, our final thought that is a sign off to the very essence of what makes Michael Jordan great. What makes him a role model and how we can all learn from him? And it starts, it gets good in the middle and ends with one thing. And that Michael Jordan is the penultimate. He is the master of the will to succeed and said differently.
It's all about mental strength. So let's for the final time. Hear from the man himself, you know, we all old and sure we tired the off season, but mentally we, we have, we have a vision, we have a finish that we have to attain, you know, and sometimes you have to do it when you're old and you're tired, you know, and I think it is the test of your will to succeed when you have to deal with some of these negatives.
And I'm pretty sure. Know, by the end of this playoff, you will see the old and the tide people were very, very young and strong mentally.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Well, what a, what? A nice way to round out the show on Jordan this year, again, like say this continue. Focus on mindset. Once again comes through in that funnel, you are what you think.
If, if you go out with this inner mental strength, no matter where you are in your game, no matter what your age is, if you've got that agility of your mind, and more importantly, that strength of will. You can succeed. You can deal with any negatives and it doesn't matter what life or the game or business, or, you know, the culture throws at you.
If you are ready for it
with practice,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: if you're resilient with all of your team, and if you've got a mental strength in yourself to deal with it, it's, it's a perfect option opportunity to continue learning and growing.
Yeah. I mean, that's a perfect summation of Jordan himself. Um, he put in the work and he thought he had total control of his thoughts.
He was absolutely convicted to be the best. He wanted to be the best. He was willing to put the work in to be the best. And he undoubtedly. Was the best. I mean, what a fantastic example for all of us, no matter what we want to do, want to be, whether it is art, craft music, film, theater, music, entrepreneurship, technology, engineering, math, whatever.
If you wanted and you remind yourself every single day and work hard for it every single day, it can happen. He was absolutely tenacious. And what you see is that when you have the right mental model, You can fulfill the greatest of destinies. And I think this is the gift of Michael Jordan who? Hi Mark.
This is some good stuff. Oh, really is Jordan.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And he's just full of so many. He's so unique in his scale and global. Um, uh, notoriety, I suppose, is the word, but this a deliberate choice, you know, I think that's really what we've been circling around. He was so laser focused and so deliberate in everything that he, that he did and everything that he set his mind to that for me is the, is what I'm taking away.
I personally, for me, the lesson I've learned with Jordan is not only to, uh, turn. Every negative or every experience into an opportunity to continue learning and growing, but also to take ownership, you know, take ownership over my choices and everything that's around me. So that much like Jordan, as he sat in one of our first clips, he did everything he could to win the game.
So I'm going to do everything I can to win my game.
Yeah. Getting the game starts with the mind what a great summary Mark, but that might be the end of the Michael Jordan show, but it's not the end of our sports innovative series. What's next.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I'm very excited for the next one too. This is we're going to be going and delving into one of my favorite tennis players of all time, Serena Williams and her amazing not only career, but all of her mindset, mental models and her
approach
Mark Pearson-Freeland: to being.
The best version of herself is what we'll be covering in shows 79.
And she's only one, just a poultry, 23 grand slam titles. Oh, 23 is
Mark Pearson-Freeland: the number of Jordan's Jersey. So that's a nice coincidence.
There you go. There you go. So, you know, she's won all the majors, U S open friendship and women then of course, the Australian open, um, What a, what an amazing athlete?
Uh, definitely, uh, one of the greatest tennis players of modern times, um, and. Just what an exciting change up from Jordan to go over into the world of Serina Williams, um, and obviously, you know, hailing from a family full of talent. Um, and, um, it's just going to be so, uh, interesting to see what are some of her mental models.
Techniques habits and tips that we can learn from becoming a tennis. Great Mark. It's going to be an action packed series in who's going to be our third athlete. Who's somewhat of an outlier to both Serena and Michael, but nonetheless fascinating
Mark Pearson-Freeland: where we're actually going to be delving into Joe Rogan, who is fascinating and prolific.
Chap, um, who I'm, I'm excited to delve into. I think there's going to be a lot of interesting stuff to, uh, to cover with Joe. You know, he's, he's, he's been very, very,
uh,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: prominent, especially in UFC and, and
more recently the podcast
Mark Pearson-Freeland: space. So I'm. I'm excited. That's going to be fun.
Yeah. So he was obviously a UFC fighter.
Uh, so really interesting. He was a very famous comedian. And then just because the guy doesn't have enough achievements, um, he's created the most viewed most watched podcasts in the universe. The Joe Rogan experience to sign the biggest podcast deal in history, a hundred million to go to Spotify. We Mark are going to be able to learn a lot from this guy.
I can't wait to do both Serina and Joe. I mean, it just keeps on giving. It's pretty fun during this learning out loud, isn't it?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah, it really is. And you know, I like the, the honesty that you share, Mike, and I hope that, uh, that I'm doing the same. I think there's a lot of lessons that we can learn by talking about things out loud.
Yes. And we like, we like chatting to each other, but we like even more hearing from you, our listeners. So don't forget to shoot us an email@helloatmoonshots.io or head to the side itself, moonshots study and tell us everything that's on your. Mind. So we've got to the end of the ultimate mindset example, the man himself, his airness Michael Jordan.
We've learned that it's hard work overcoming adversity that helps you fail your way to success. And if you have this vision, if you have this mental model, if you have the will to succeed, whatever you dream will become your destiny. So Mark, I think it's our destiny to head into the office and do some work, but I hope you've enjoyed MJ.
Are you going to be dropping a few, three pointers in the wastepaper basket later today?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: If I can, if I can chat if I can manage it. Yes. But what I would do, even if I can't manage it, I'll make sure to not give up and I'll have another go.
There you go well done. Well, thank you to you, Mark. Thank you to all of our listeners, um, as they grow throughout all four corners of the world.
We're so, so excited to hear from all of you. So whether it's new Delhi, Sydney on New York, tell us what you're thinking. It's great that you're part of this movement, where we learn from innovators and we can become the best versions of ourselves. Thanks again, Mark. Thank you to our listeners. This is the end of the moonshots.
Podcast veteran.