The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

Travis chats with the host of The Hunting Dog Podcast, recurring guest on MeatEater, passionate upland game hunter, dog handler and all around cool guy, Ron Boehme.

If you are interested in hunting with dogs, this podcast is for you. If you want to learn to train your dog like a pro, Ron has collaborated with Justin McGrail to create a fantastic online course.

Make sure to check out Ron and his course at the links below or through any popular podcast provider.

https://thehuntingdogpodcast.com

https://www.uplandinstitute.com

Learn More about Silvercore

What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the

Silvercore podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

people in businesses that
comprise the community.

If you're a new to
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www.silvercore.caCA we

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properly covered during

your outdoor adventures.

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hunter, I would like

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Federation included in

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is the mandatory $30

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Check the link in
the description

for more details.

Today I'm joined by the
host of the hunting dog

podcast, recurring guest
on mediator, passionate

Upland game, hunter, dog
handler, and all around

cool guy, Ron Boehme
Ron I'm really excited

to be chatting with you
on this hunting dog.

Silvercore swap cast.

Cool, cool.

Yeah, you wrote, and uh,
you said one key word

to speak my interest.

You're thinking about
getting the bird dog.

I am thinking about
getting a bird dog.

Yes.

Why would you do
something so stupid?

Honestly.

So I've, I've had dogs
before previously.

I had a border Collie and
smart as a whip, easy to

train how to train, doing
everything I wanted.

But, uh, but not as
a hunting dog, right.

The kids had kids
come on the way.

And we realized we
weren't giving the

dog the attention
that it needed.

And we have two kids that
needed our attention.

And I didn't feel
that we're being

fair to the dog.

So, I mean, the kids
would say, or dogs

living on a farm now.

Well, it actually was,
we found that some

farmers who had some
property who could take

care of the dog and
give it the attention

I needed, and I was
always of the mindset.

I'm not going to get
myself another dog

until we got a large
property and I want to

get a couple because
they're pack animals.

They want the.

And recently out hunting.

I came to the very
sudden realization.

I am tired of retrieving
my own birds and I would

love to have a dog.

And this happened
after about, I don't

know, three hours of
trying to find a bird

that went down and
just couldn't find it.

And finally had some
other hunters come by and

they had dogs and they
were able to help out.

So I said, time to
get a dog texted the

wife, she's immediately
looking at all these

different breeds.

And that's, we're kind
of, we're kind of looking

at Munster Landers, but
you probably have some

ideas on those, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I, what I was going to
ask you, who was, you

would not be, you are so
not alone in this world

of how to pick a breed
because back in the day,

if it was kind of always,
the guy met the guy that

he was hunting with and
he got a dog from his

friend and now the wife
and the kids always

come into the court.

And online and they
start reading breed

descriptions, and
you could read, I got

several books, I got an
encyclopedia over there,

all the dog breeds.

I've got that great book
that, uh, Craig Kaushik,

a follow a fellow
Canadian friend of,

uh, or fellow Canadian
of yours wrote a book.

And it breaks down
every continental

breed that points in
this particular bank.

And it gives you kind
of an explanation and

he tells you the pros
and cons, but you'll

fall in love with every
dog you read on that,

like lower in there.

That's the thing.

Yeah.

So what I was getting
at is there's so many

families to get involved
with picking a dog.

And a minute you
said your wife on the

inside, I'm going,
you got, you know,

it's not just a dog.

It's going to be
another kid of

some, some fashion,
you know, agreed.

But the upside I
tell everybody and

I probably filter.

Three or four
calls a day.

And they ended up
getting to be long

calls with people,
looking for first dog.

And when I know someone's
got a that they haven't

done it before, I
literally asked them

two different questions.

One of them is always,
are you married?

And they're like, yes.

Okay.

Do you have kids?

And they said,
yeah, how old?

Uh, five and seven.

Okay.

You're not going to
have a problem if

you raise that dog.

And you've got kids that
you're, you know, 85%

happy with, you'll be
able to raise a dog, but

it's just like, you've
probably met somebody

with that first kid
and they, they think

they're, they don't
know what to do and

everything's an emergency
and everything's this

and everything's that,
um, the worry part

of being a parent,
if you're not a worry

ward, parent, you've
got a pretty good kid.

You're I don't care if
the kid's three or 13.

If you did a pretty good
job, you're going to do

a good job with your dog,
whatever breed you get.

So there's a, there's a
silver lining for still

silver lining
for silver Corp.

Yeah.

Well, our kids are what,
14 and 12 right now.

And, uh, I don't know.

I think we're doing
a good job with them.

I've got a good family
unit partying about

getting this dog though.

I said, look at,
everyone's gotta be

on the same page.

So we're buying
some books on

training the dog.

And what is one of them?

The gentleman's
hunting dog, I think

was a Mike Stewart.

And there's a, another
book, a smaller one,

a lot of really good
information that we're

going through right now.

But I said, I don't want
to train at one thing.

And have you guys do
something different?

We gotta be unified
in our approach.

Yeah, well, that's,
that's going to

be important.

Um, so what, what kind
of birds up in your neck

of the woods would you
be chasing forest grouse?

Mostly.

Are you in what part of.

So we're, I'm in the
lower mainland area

and I'm fortunate
enough where I live.

I mean, we've got
some great waterfowl

hunting, so we've got
great ducks and geese

I in the area where I'm
at actually, they've

got a club that'll
release pheasants, and

so we could do some
pheasant hunting, uh,

and then you don't
have to travel too far.

And we've got a lot of,
uh, gross hunting and

all my gross hunting in
the past has been okay.

Let's let's walk the
roads and look out

for the guard gross
and just try and keep,

keep my eyes open.

So having a dog
will be a completely

different dynamic.

It will be.

And, you know, especially
like the breed, you're

talking about the,
the monster Lander

I've judged a lot of
them over the years.

And one of the parts of
the versatile hunting

dog test is, uh, a puppy
needs to track a live.

So we disable this
pheasant from being

able to fly with both
wings and we released

it on the ground outside
of the dog and we

basically shoot it away.

Like, go, go, go.

Right.

And in an ideal
situation, you're in

maybe six inches of
cover, like a hayfield

or something like
that, or a Stubblefield

or something.

And ideally that
bird runs into some

other cover, like
a fence row or a

Woodlawn or something.

We set this up and I've
said this probably 50

times on my podcast,
but I haven't said it

to you or your listener.

Um, as judges, we, we,
we cringe some time

when we're like, oh,
is this a good spot?

Are we giving the dog the
best we could give it?

Like the covers kind
of sparse, it's kind

of just mostly mud or
the covers too tall,

or, you know, we all.

We could judge the
field search of a

dog because you're
watching a dog run.

No problem, no big deal.

Right.

But the track is really
important because

it's up to us to
set up a good track.

We can, and this has
happened dozens of times.

Let's say we get a
couple of other dogs that

aren't, I'm not going to
say what breed, they're

just not monster Landers.

Sure.

And the first couple,
just that dog just didn't

inherit a lot of tracking
or it use kind of a wild

search to track and the
dog can still get some

qualifying points, you
know, as long as he's

making forward progress.

But as judges were
always like, oh, I

knew we should've found
a different field.

And then third dog up is
a small monster Lander

and the person puts the
dog out on a track and it

looks like a bloodhound
chasing a prisoner

right through the swamp.

You know, it just really
just now there's the

exception to the rule,
but I mean, the exception

is rare in the rural.

Strong months.

These have a hell of a
tracking instinct, a hell

of a tracking instinct.

You know, that's good to

hear.

That's good to hear.

So that last bird you
looked for forever.

Never.

I don't think that's
going to happen.

Well, amen.

That's awesome.

So I guess the next
question would be, so

you get, you get this
as a pop and I think

we're, where is it?

We're looking at
somewhere in the states.

There's a breeder out
there, so we'll have

to fly in, grab it.

And when it's a, uh,
a few months old, like

what age do you do?

You start their
training at

well, trading kind
of starts the day.

You get it home.

You'll hear people say
that it really does

because dogs learn
that they only can

learn by association.

So it's either they're G
they got seven inherited

appointing dog has
seven inherited traits.

Okay.

Obedience and
understanding, and

this language is
not one of them.

There's desire.

There's search there's
nos, there's tracking

there's water,
cooperation, those things

come in the package, but
the training starts just

like with crate training.

Um, you know, I don't
know with your border

Collie, if you create
trained it for travel

and for the ho home, or
did you let it become a

bed puppy and deal with
a couple accidents in the

house back in the day?

No, no bed pups.

I've.

I was raised with having
dogs as an outside only

dog, uh, our new dog
that we'll be bringing

in, we'll have a crate
inside the house.

And, um, yeah, I'm, I'm
sort of torn between the

utility of a dog, as well
as the fact that you're

saying, you know, the
kids and the wife and

every, and it's becomes
part of your family.

Right, right.

So that crate is
like your, your pups.

Hmm.

So like when we have
kids, they sleep in

the bassinet nearby,
so mom can feed them.

And everyone's worried
about the new kid.

I tell you, when you
bring home a new puppy,

let's say let's hope it's
not before eight weeks of

age, it should be okay.

I think 10 or 12
is well-proven to

be a better age
to pick them up.

If it's a good
kennel, that's really

developing their pups.

And honestly that
keeps you from

having less house
accidents at 12 weeks.

And it doesn't, they just
have a more developed

bladder and food system.

But so when you bring
that dog home, you

set that CR I tell
people, set that crate

up by a door, closest
door to your yard.

And when you put that
puppy in, when you don't

have time to play with
the puppy, which would

be outside, taking walks
a little bit of house

with the kids, of course,
they're going to hold

them and watch TV with
them and all that stuff.

Sure.

But when you don't
have time with

the, for the pop.

Put them in a crate
and he's going to haul

a little bit and he's
probably going to haul

all the first time you
shut the door and you

go to bed, but what kid
didn't cry the first time

you put them in his own
crib, in his own room.

Right.

And what mother didn't
tell their daughter,

don't you go in there?

Cause if you go in there

once

baby, that baby can only
learn by association.

So you can't tell
the baby it's okay.

I'll be back
in the morning.

And when you wake up
at three, I'm going

to nurse you, you
can't resort baby.

You can't reason
with a puppy.

So you put them in that
crate and you never

let them out when he's
barking or crying.

I mean, there's
exceptions.

Like we've got to make
sure that he's already

emptied his bladder, you
know, and maybe maybe

made to the poop in the
backyard or whatever,

or maybe he already
pooped on your carpet.

Who knows?

You don't want to
put them in there.

Yeah.

There's a chance
that he really has to

go to the bathroom.

Other than that, even
adult dogs can sleep

20 some hours a day
when you're not doing

nothing, you know
how regular house.

And, uh, so you get
him used to that crate.

And that just starts
that, that crate

training, like, no, it's
not about me right now.

It's about,
it's about now.

It's quiet time.

Now.

My mom used to, she'd
been gone for a long

time, but she gets,
she can it around now.

My mom was, you know,
I was born in the

fifties, so my mom would
go next door and have

cigarettes and coffee
with the neighbor and

plop me in a, in a plate.

You know, back in the day
I had four foot square

wooden playpens, right.

She says you were
raised in a playpen

for like two years.

She goes, I didn't
do anything with you.

Kids are easy.

Kids are easy, you
know, give me a toy.

And I was fighting
like a dog with a chew

toy, but I, I keep
that with the dogs.

Like when you don't
have the time, put it in

the kennel is not going
to resent that once he

gets used to the kennel.

That's good to know.

So, so when you ask, when
does this training start?

That's part of it.

The next training on
that is in the beginning,

you, your kids, your
wife are going to open

that crate door and he's
going to come running

out like, ah, I'm here,
you know, and of course

you've got to let
them out to the door.

You always they'll
always relieve themselves

after a nap, pretty
much most of the time.

And, but after that's
developed a little

bit, you take that door
and you kind of, when

they come charge, not
you snap it in their

face a little bit.

And he's going
to keep banging.

This is a dog.

It's not a kid, so you're
not going to get child

services after you.

Right.

And I always say, picture
yourself, trying to get

out of, uh, uh let's.

Have you ever used a
portajohn on a job site?

Okay.

Yeah.

Those doors unimportant.

Johns can be
weird, right?

They can swing back
and like you get your

hand caught in a once.

You're like, ah, no,
I know part of John

Doerr needs to go all
the way out because

it's spring loaded.

And if I'm not all
the way out the door,

it's going to come
back and hit me.

And for some reason,
the porta John door's

grocer, then, you know,
so the dog's gonna

think the same thing.

You, you, you, you
give him a note.

Nope.

You close that door.

And then the minute
he kind of is like,

should I come out or
should I not come out?

You open that door a
little bit and you get

a couple inches out
and then you say, okay,

now he starts learning.

Okay.

Means.

Right.

Developed that over a
few, a few weeks, right?

To the point where
when you go to let

them out of that door,
you're going to go.

Aye.

And then you're going
to open that door.

That door is going to
be open 180 degrees,

and he's going to
be sitting in there.

She, and he's going
to be like, say the

word, say the word.

Okay.

You know, you're going
to go, okay, he's

going to come up.

Just like he did.

When you first got
home, he let him

out happy puppy.

But he already learned
that he's got to

wait a little bit.

Right?

So what that does is
it establishes you as

making the rules for the
dog and that's where so

many people go wrong.

Just those little
things like that.

When you go to the door,
once he's learned the

kennel door, you do the
same thing at the house

store you, as you go out
the door, you never let

the dog take the lead.

You say.

You know, don't
worry about teaching

the dog to sit.

Uh, I, I won't ever go
into that pointing dog.

Some people would never
train them to sit, sits,

sits a default for a dog.

If they don't know
what to do, they're

going to sit.

If you want to give it
a name, give it a name.

But if you don't, I
guarantee if you keep

opening a door and
your dog is trying to

get out at some point,
it's going to go like

this, I'll just set it.

So they're going
to sit, right?

So then you start
doing the house door

and he sees that
house door goes open.

You get one step out
under the threshold

and then say, okay.

And then he comes
out with you, but

you take the lead.

So, so that training
starts early on it.

That's just associate
of training.

How to be a good puppy
at home, you know?

Yeah.

That's it sit,
stay thing.

I had a, with my
last dog, I was,

I told them shit.

And then I said,
stay in someone's.

Why are you telling them
to say, like, if you

told them to sit doesn't
that just mean sit.

If he gets up two
seconds later, it's

not sitting anymore.

So do you teach state?

Yeah, I will.

I will enforce
the duration of

the sit later on.

Okay.

Yeah.

But all I'm looking
for early on is just

some compliance, just
that he understands,

like I, and it gets it.

We, it would take forever
to go through the whole

process, but that early
teaching him to stop is

going to help you later
because there's going to

be times when you need
to make your teenage dog

six months, 10 months,
year old, whatever you

want to call a teenager
as a dog, you're going

to, you're going to
be asking him to stop.

Whether it's walking on
a leash and you got to

stop at a sidewalk or
you're out in the field.

If you end up getting
into some real bird,

dog training down the
road later on, you're

going to want to steady
this dog up to at least.

The word woe means stop
when you're moving, but

if he understands stop
and it comes from you

or the word wall, so
most people use wall

in the Burt and the
pointing dog world.

Right.

If you use the word
wall early, when you

start training him
later, let's say with

a little check court on
or a leash and you say,

whoa, his brain goes
right back to the kennel

in the house stories.

Like, I think that
means I should stop.

Right.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's not
hard to do.

It's just consistent.

Yup.

So I brought my border
Collie many years ago,

brought them out to the
local shotgun range and

we just kind of stayed in
the parking lot, who far

away from the gunshots.

And I figured I'd try
and slowly try and

introduce my dog to
the sound of gunfire

right now, a border.

You're prime hunting
dog at all, but I found

that every single time
I put a long gun up

to my shoulder, my dog
would come right beside

me, lean hard into
me and start shaking.

So I probably did
something wrong in

the introduction to
firearms with this

dog at some point.

And I definitely don't
want to repeat that with

a dedicated hunting dog.

How would you
introduce them?

Well, there's, there's
several ways to do it.

Um, probably the most one
you're going to hear the

most you'll see on the
internet and on YouTube

would be, um, get this
dog to chase like a

pigeon or a, a pen raised
bird that you can kind

of control the flight.

Pigeons, you don't
control the flight of,

but pigeons never land
back on the ground.

So you take a, you get
a pigeon, you let it

fly the dogs and mid
pursued he's he's.

He thinks he's
going to catch it.

He can't, but the
dog's running.

And then in the
background back here,

you do some light,
maybe blank gun, or if

you don't have a blank
and you got to have

a friend, another 50
yards behind with, let's

say a four, 10 shotgun
or a 22 rifle, and he

still keeps the barrel
pointed the opposite

direction of the dog.

But now this dog
is seeing a bird

as it's running.

And he's hearing a little
something in his head,

but just in his eyes
because of his instincts

where the border Collie
doesn't have that chase.

The, I bet you, if
you'd have had a sh.

And he was hurting
and you were shooting

when he was young.

He probably be
like, man, that's

the sound of sheep.

Yeah, you're
probably right.

Right.

Um, the, the thing
about gun clubs, I'm

telling you, a lot of
people have done it.

And I cannot tell those
people that didn't work

because they did it.

Right.

But what they also have
is probably what I refer

to as a Bulletproof dog.

There's some dogs out
that are just so not

going to be bothered
by noise, that it

would be literally
you'd have to work at

making them gun shy.

Right.

You almost have to
take a, take a starting

pistol and wake them
up for breakfast

with it in his ear.

Like, Hey, boom,
Hey, wake up and eat.

So there's some dogs.

My first short
hair, I didn't do

any gun training.

I took her hunting, but
she was chasing a bird.

I shot the bird.

She associated the
noise with the bird.

The noise was
always good for.

Uh, when did you get
your, for short hair?

Huh?

How old were you
when he first got

your, your first?

Oh, I was thinking I
was, well, I was in

my twenties when I got
one, but when I actually

bought one, like with
the purpose that I

was 30, 30, 2, 64.

So it might, my first
purchase is what I

call a bred dog was
probably 32 years ago.

Something like that now.

Okay.

Have you noticed a change
in sort of training

tactics over the years?

Yeah, mostly because
in the beginning

I didn't train it.

You know, I literally
had one of the things

I mentioned to you
about dogs are the

natural cooperation.

What that is
like, I'm guessing

that your border.

Was pretty good running
around all the time.

Right?

Didn't didn't run off and
leave you for 300 yards.

He right.

That's bred into
the border Collie.

And that's one of the
reasons they're very

intelligent is they're
very cooperative.

So cooperation
is the teamwork.

The you don't,
it's not trained.

It's the teamwork that
the dog gives you.

So that border Collie
probably had a good

amount of cooperation.

So my first dog had a
lot of cooperation and

she literally, in her
genetics, her searched

genetics were inherited
from generations of

good hunting dogs.

So she searched at a
pattern that something

in her brain said,
that's about right.

I'll turn,
I'll come back.

Well, that's about,
you know, so I got

very lucky and then I
bought a next dog which

had zero cooperation.

So, so somewhere in
my mid thirties, I

said, I'm gonna have to
learn how to train the

dog because this dog.

I don't.

I think I took a
trip to Canada.

One time to go a sharp
tail hunting, and I never

shot a dog bird over
the other people did,

but I never shot a dog,
a bird over my own dog.

He just doing his
thing all day long.

Some somebody would
see him on point.

He goes, Hey, Ron,
Hasko's over here.

I'm pointing.

I'm like, God,
shoot the bird farm.

I don't care.

Oh yeah.

Well what about the
whole male female thing?

Is there any, is an
old wives tale people

saying you got to get a
female hunting dog or is

there any truth to that?

I don't think so.

I think one of the
reasons if people are

pro male, it's probably
because a lot of the

champions out there back
in the day were male.

And the reason that
is is because they

never go into a heat.

Right.

So you've got that when
it comes to competition,

you've got that when
it comes to everyday

hunting, you could
get a heat cycle.

I just had one come up in
North Dakota with a dog.

So I couldn't get
her out with my mail.

And if another dog
would have, you know,

it would have been a
real, real catastrophe.

So, um, so some people
will say one Hunt's

better than the other.

And some dogs I've been
told this, some females

like guys better, some
females like the mom

better, but that could
also be some early

imprinting of this stuff.

We talk about, you know,
they just they're like,

oh, there's my boss.

And they know
the difference.

So there's, I bet you
there's just so many

great stories about
female hunting dogs as

there is male hunting
dogs and you could

find it would be, uh,
it would be as divided

as the United States
is politically, right?

Yeah.

I hear ya.

Well, you just came back
from a hunting trip.

While we're chatting
last year driving.

Yeah.

Um, I went to
Northwest North Dakota.

In fact, we went up
so far Northwest that

one of my friend's
phones, the text said

welcome to Canada.

I never, it didn't come
up on my phone, but he

said, yeah, I'm getting
some texts alert.

Like, you know, something
probably from the

border, like some like
welcome to Canada,

make sure you stay.

He's like, we're getting
texts from Canada here.

So I didn't get
that on my phone.

But, um, so we were
up there, we did

some pheasant hunting
fire up there.

We were chasing
sharp tail grouse.

Uh, looking
for Hungarian.

Partridges only
found one Covey.

And we did a fair amount
of duck hunting, which

is probably our bigger
success in, but this trip

was all just a trip with
my best friend since we

were in diapers and my
neighbor and his boy.

And it was like
no pressure.

There was no expectations
on this trip and it

went down in history
of my trips as well.

Yeah, top five trips
I've ever taken.

So yeah.

Yeah.

You know, once you
leave those expectations

behind, if the
expectation I find

for me personally, if
the expectation is the

outcome, like what,
how many animals are

we going to harvest
or are we going to

be successful or not?

None of those trips
ever rank high with me,

if the expectation is,
man, we're just going

to have a good time.

Inevitably we do.

And if we end up
harvesting something,

that's just icing on
the cake and yeah.

And, and that's, I don't
know, that's one of

the things like in the
silver Corp podcast,

I try and speak with,
uh, find the people who

are inspirational and
sort of groundbreaking

in their territory,
who are passionate

about what they do.

And I try my best, a
learn from them and B

share that passion with
others and more and more

I'm finding that the most
passionate and the people

who are having the most
fun are the ones who.

Just truly enjoying
the process.

And like, when I look
at you, I watch you.

So you've been on a few
episodes of mediator

there and you're showing
Steve how you're making

your own lead shot.

And you got some
nice shot guns

that you're using.

They're not always the
latest greenest fanciest

thing, but they got
some character to them.

I mean, that's one thing
that I've really taken

away from your podcast
from watching you is

that you are the type of
person that truly knows

how to enjoy the process.

know I'm just about to
open a beer right now.

Good

for you.

Good for you.

And that was this.

Yeah.

When, uh, when
you said meet her.

Yeah, I was fortunate
enough to be, uh, Steve

was one of my Stephen,
his brothers, but Steve

specifically, and his
brother, Danny, where

some of my earliest
employees, he just

got out of high school
here where he lived

and I ran into his mom
and she said, my sons

are looking for work.

I'm like, I'm
looking for.

So that's how we met.

And so I was fortunate
enough to get asked when

his production budget
was much smaller way back

in the day, he'd say,
Hey, can you come out

to, you know, here and
here and do an episode.

So, you know, he pay
for my gas or whatever,

you know, but, so yeah,
I was lucky enough

to do that with him.

And, and that, that
was, uh, that's actually

the start of my podcast
because Joe Rogan talked

him into doing one in
our, one of our hunting

trips in Texas, that
we filmed, he brought

out podcast equipment
and I thought you

needed a studio, right.

I've listened to
podcasts for about four

years at this point.

And I thought, I'm not
going to find a studio.

And you know, I'm not
good morning, five

minutes after 7, 7
0 5 work, you know?

And then when I saw
we could sit down at

the kitchen table and
drink beer, Mike, I'm

doing a podcast as soon
as I get home sold.

So what was your podcast
background, Travis?

I mean, because it's,
it's a lot similar,

but, but like what
made you start it?

What made you say?

So I've I started, I've
got a training company,

silver core training,
and we do among other

things, firearms training
and hunter education and

outdoor safety printing
and Canadian based.

And it's something that
I love, but I've also

got a desire to always
create and build things.

And I don't know
if it's the ADHD in

me or what it is.

But I'm always looking at
other things that I can

do to kind of occupy my
mind and occupy my time.

And there was a
growing trend that I

found myself sort of,
uh, being surrounded

by in my industry.

And I don't know if
it's the same in the

states, but in Canada.

I mean, like there,
there is a social stigma

surrounding firearms.

There's a social stigma
that surrounds hunting

and there's a lot of
negativity as well.

And if, and I, and I
found that I was seeing

a lot of that negativity,
but in the same breath,

there's a lot of
positivity and there's

a lot of great stories
and it's, I dunno if it's

equal on both sides, but
I thought, well, I want

to be able to change my
vantage point to be able

to see the positivity,
really that positivity.

And so I started the
silver Corp podcast and

we're like, we're in
the hunting or I don't

think they have a hunting
category we're in the

wilderness section.

What's that.

Yeah.

So we're in that outdoor
section on the, um,

on the, uh, the iTunes
chart, but we talk about

everything under the sun.

Usually it starts with
hunting or firearms, but

like we've had, uh, uh,
last one, we just let

it was with a British
special forces commando.

And he's talking about
a selection process and,

and the rest I had the
inventor of the invisible

cloak on the podcast.

I don't know if you've
heard of this guy.

He is so smart.

And I thought, well, this
is kind of camouflage

related, right?

This has got something to
do with, uh, are you talk

about the Harry Potter?

Kind of like that,
what this guy did.

Okay.

It's going to
sound really fancy.

He took a, an array of
lenticular lenses with

a, uh, special viscous
compound in between them

to refract light in such
a way that the person

behind it is not seen,
but what's in behind

that person is seen.

And I wouldn't believe
it if I didn't see it.

So he brings us in,
he brings it into the,

uh, into the studio
that we have here.

His name is guy Kramer.

His grandfather invented
the walkie talkie during,

uh, during the war.

And so lineage of
really smart dudes.

And it's funny because
we're having this podcast

and he keeps looking
at his watch, right.

And this is one of
my earlier podcasts.

I'm like, oh man, I
must be boring him.

Right.

And he keeps looking
at his watch and I'm

like, finally I said,
look it, if he gotta

be somewhere I'm don't
don't let me hold you up.

He's like, no, no,
I'm really sorry.

This is, um, uh,
I'm getting my

email notifications
come through.

Uh, that was Fox news.

The other one was,
I don't know, CNN

or something else.

Cause he just, uh,
release the trademark

and patent on is this
invisible cloak thing.

And you know what it is.

Have you ever taken
a, uh, you know, the

stickers that you can
look at, but you can

tilt it and it changes
the, uh, whatever you

see on the sticker.

And it's like, as
kids would play

with them, those are
lenticular lenses.

And he basically took a
couple of those things

and he put an oil between
it and you can go online

and you can see all the,
um, the videos of people.

Who've tried to
copy it anyways.

Positive fellow.

Is that related to
hunting and firearms?

No, but he's a pretty
cool story or, I mean

like Colin Deller, he
was attacked by a grizzly

bear and fought it off
of this pocket knife.

I mean, that's not
really, that's not

really hunting, but
Hey, but it's a story.

Yeah.

That's how I started.

I just was in
North Dakota.

We didn't really bring
layout blinds or anything

for duck hunting.

We just thought we'd
hide in cattails.

And some of the ponds
did not have cat tails

and we would just kind
of sit, it doesn't work

real good for a duck,
you know, an invisible

cloak that you could just
reflect, whatever else

is around you on that.

I bet you, we're going to
see that at Sportsman's

warehouse someday.

think you will.

I think you will.

He tried to sell it
to the military and he

says, this shouldn't
be in civilian hands.

And he went around and,
uh, he did the circuit,

but nobody really
picked them up on it.

And if you look at
the videos that he has

online, I mean, it's
amazing what it does,

but it's also got a
different application.

You can put it over top
of solar panels and it,

I don't know, I don't
know the exact number,

but like 10 times or
20 times the amount of

light will come through
onto your solar panels.

So anyways,

I got to ask,
what was it like?

So if he was in your
studio and he pulled

this over him, would
you just be kind of

seeing a broke up
version of your studio?

kind kind of, I actually,
I took a picture and it

wasn't the best picture
of him and I, and we're

holding this thing in
front of us and you

can see the, sort of
the, the frame of the

picture and behind us.

And, but we kind
of disappear.

I mean, if you go on
his website, you can see

all the videos in there.

They're optimal.

I mean, the things just
disappear behind it,

but I guess that's a
bit of a tangent, but

yeah, essentially the
silver Corp podcast,

I don't monetize it.

I mean, I'm sure
there's, there's

ancillary benefits
to having the silver

coordinator out there,
but I do it because

I love talking with
people like yourself.

I love learning things
and I want to surround

myself and others with
the positive things

that are in both of our

realms.

Yeah.

I'm sure you get those
emails that like, yep.

That's why I'm
doing the podcast.

Right.

Somebody will write
you from a guest and

you really feel like.

You know, philanthropic
to one word that's

like for money, you
really feel like, wow,

this guy would not
have wrote me an email

if he didn't mean it.

And it's almost sometimes
a little gushy, you know,

you're like, wow, I can't
believe I got you to get

back into the hunting
world and got you to buy

a dog or got you to like,
in your case, like yeah.

You know, I used to
shoot and I'm going to

shoot again or so yeah.

Sometimes that's
all you need for

payment, you know?

And, uh, that's,
it's fun.

is.

Yeah.

It is fun.

And, and really, I
don't know, at the end

of the day, everyone's
got to make a living.

Everyone's got to do
something to retire and

have the nice things that
you want to have, but

the real positive change
that you can affect in

the community typically,
isn't, it, it, isn't

something that comes
from directly from your

job and it's something.

As a by-product of your
passion, your endeavor

will probably end up
generating revenue.

But if you, if you look
at it from a revenue

standpoint, I think
that's, it's a dead end.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, you
you've what, 2012, I

think it was when you
started your podcast.

No,

no, it was 2015.

I'm going to be in
my, uh, I I've, I've

done it for almost
seven years now.

So next year will
be my eighth year

starting my eighth

year.

Did you find it hard
to start or will

you just imagine,
like you are now?

Well, I found it like,
I want to do it and

like, who's going to
be my first guest.

Right.

Got my oldest hunting
buddy to come over here

and drink beer with me.

And we just started
rehashing a trip

to South Dakota.

I'm like, I guess
that's what it is.

But you mentioned
something about

me and like making
my own shells and.

I don't want to
say I'm not calling

myself genuine,
but I never change.

You can ask my wife.

I never changed.

I'm sure.

She'll agree.

Just like drinking a
beer or smoking a cigar.

I'm like, no, I'm not
going to not do that

because that's what I do.

And that just
resonates with people.

Like, I mean, I say
sarcastically, I'm trying

to bring smoking back.

I think he had a better,
but that's because

when everybody smoked,
it was just a better

country back then.

So maybe it was
the country.

Cigars did not have
anything to do with it,

but maybe we've banned
this so bad that some

people that might be cool
or like, God, if I could

just have a cigarette,
that'd be great.

You know, I
hate censorship.

You know, I agree again.

I know if you're
sitting in a restaurant,

nobody wants to smell
a cigarette coming

off the Ash tray.

But when I grew up, you
S you smoked on planes.

Yeah.

Smoked in the
last five rows.

Now at that age, I don't
think I was smoking.

It didn't seem to bother
me, but that's cause my

mom blew cigarette smoke
into my baby blanket.

So I mean, it obviously
didn't bother me.

Remind your

mom might as a new
mom, but so yeah.

Be it and being real,
like, like you said,

you're, you're just so
passionate about what

you do that you want.

You're not trying
to convert people.

You're just trying
to celebrate the

passion kinda right.

Yeah.

By default you end up
surrounding yourself

with more like-minded
people who have that same

passion and same drive.

Yeah.

Like I think most
podcasters, if they, I

don't know if they did a
murder mystery or what.

It's kind of like, we
all served a little

term together, figuring
out how to do it.

You know, that
first, that first

episode, when are we
going to next week?

How did you pick a first
guest for, for, uh, for

yours, for silver Corp?

Just like you.

I had a couple of
friends and so when both

of them are retired,
Vancouver city police,

and, and from the
training background, I

look at it and I said,
well, I figure every

single episode I put
out should have some

educational components.

Like if I'm asking for
somebody's time to listen

to me for X amount of
time, what value am

I imparting to them?

And so I figured, well,
it's got to have some

training components.

And so I'd kind of draft
out all the different

things that we'd try
and have, uh, covered,

or it's got to have
some entertainment

value and it wasn't
until, uh, sitting down

with, well, there's
a couple, but, uh, I

don't know, uh, Brad
Brooks from our galley.

I remember before
doing the podcast with

them, just like with
you, we have a little

bit of preamble, we
talked back and forth.

He was like, you know,
if you want to talk about

whatever technical things
that I do with hunting.

Sure.

Yeah.

We can do it.

I mean, like they make
the game bags and yeah,

we could talk about
that, but honestly,

I'm more interested
just to tell stories.

I want to see what
you're about and I'd

love to be able to share
some of my stories.

And I'm like, it's just
like you're saying this,

this whole world of
social media, that's been

so polished and everybody
knows it's fake.

Right?

For the most part,
you look at all this

policy, they want to
see something real

and they want to be
able to connect with,

with the people that
they're listening to,

where they're watching.

And if they happen
to be entertained

and educated in the
process, even better,

it's a bonus.

It's a bonus, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I'll bring
guests on that are not

usually entertaining,
but very informal.

Um, and that's a
podcast where I want

them to do a lot of
the talking, right.

A habitat biologist,
um, right.

We've had several of
those on, and I'm kind

of like when I got them
on and they're on a

roll about habitat and
biology and pollinators,

I'm like, oh, right.

So then I feel like one
of my own listeners.

Yeah.

Like that's why they
liked this because I

just learned something.

They gotta like
it, you know?

And then with, in my
particular case, cause

I'm known for being
such a, a drinker.

Well, I am, I mean, my
dad said I drove a beer

truck in Chicago for
two years when I was

20 and 21 years old.

I drove a paps blue
ribbon, a tractor

trailer and delivered
beer to stores.

Awesome.

You, you cannot
imagine how much beer,

I think the other
day, a buddy of mine.

Uh, best friends since
I was, you know, like

I said, right around
diapers, we don't

remember ourselves,
but we were next

door neighbors and he
goes, how much beer do

you think you drank?

And I'm like,
I don't know.

So I got my
calculator out and I

didn't drink early.

I wasn't like a 13 year
old delinquent, you know,

like I didn't cigarette
until I was old enough

to buy cigarettes.

Yeah.

But my mom smoked and she
said, oh, you're smoking.

I'm like, well, yeah.

She goes, well, I
certainly can't tell

you not to, you know, it
came to beer drinking.

I was, I was probably,
I was not like the

high school party kid.

You know, we were
out trying to chase

bugs and flies and
try to hunt and trap.

And even though we're
in the city of Chicago,

but when it came to
like drinking, when I

was able to say, get
into someplace or go

to Wisconsin, where it
was only 18, I took to

that, like a, like a, you
know, a flight of shit.

And then I drove
this beer truck.

And the sales, the job is
called driver salesman.

It was a union.

It's a union.

I think it was, I
think it was local

7 43 in Chicago.

I think it was.

And so my first day,
I'm with this other

driver and I'm his
helper, which means I

got to do all the work.

Of course, 12 packs on
the Dolly, bring them

down the stairs, stock
the sh you know, you

don't stock the shelves,
but you, you make sure

the beers in the shelf
where people can see it.

An old bill was over
at the bar having a

short glass of beer.

And that's right after
breakfast, because our

tender would pour him
a, a shorty glass and

that he'd get, he'd
get the bill made out.

And he'd say,
you want a glass?

I'm like, I'm
dying from work.

I mean, yeah, let
me have a Bible.

Okay.

That would go on all
day long, all day

long, five days a week.

And I'm not saying I have
good friends of mine have

literally told me, Ryan.

I don't think I've
ever seen you out of

control in your life.

I've seen you on stage.

Might've seen the
lampshade once, you

know, but I have some
and I drink very light.

I drink light beer,
you know, I don't

drink content.

I don't drink alcohol.

Like what I call alcohol?

I don't drink wine.

I don't drink bourbon.

I'll sip on something
once in a blue moon,

but I have some innate,
maybe it's just because

of conditioning.

I've been pulled
over three times for

suspicion of DUI.

It never, it never
blew illegal.

Now.

I don't know how
to explain that.

Some horse shoes, maybe.

I don't know, once you up

my ass, the one I got
under the seat, I,

again, I was, I know that
those times that I had

alcohol on my breath.

Yeah.

But I wasn't in a bar,
you know, drinking,

but I've been on, I
was on a hunting trip

once and I got pulled.

And of course you could
smell it on my breath.

Right.

This cop made me do
three times into this

straw and he's like, he's
like, he was literally

like, I don't understand
this thing and go like

this thing's broken

good genetics.

That goes, just goes
back to, I, I always

am who I am, you know?

And I, I mean, I could
tell from talking

to you the other day
and you're like, kind

of guy we'd bump in.

If we sat down on a
plane together, it's

not the guy you're
not going to talk to.

It's the guy that's
going to make the

whole flight go by and
totally blink of an eye.

Yeah,

totally.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Sounds like a dream job.

I don't know why
you left that one.

Yeah,

it was a good job.

It was a good job.

I, unfortunately,
I don't know.

I don't know.

I forget what I think
it was a Monday morning.

I took what was
called a barrel.

I had to do a barrel
run, so it's a

different truck.

It's a straight
bed truck.

And I was starving.

I was probably
out all day at a

barbecue or whatever.

Got up, more
starving, hungry.

And I, I pulled into a
McDonald's through and

thank God, there was a
car under the canopy at

the drive-through window.

But so I stopped with
my, the front end of this

old international PO you
know, ma literally manual

steering box truck.

And I'm bright
behind this car.

But what I didn't
realize was that the sign

that said clearance up
clear it's nine, six.

Yeah.

I was just thinking
McDonald's.

So when I pulled up
and stopped the box and

my truck was literally
up against that sign,

I didn't know it.

And when that car pulled
up, I let off the clutch.

And all the glass started
breaking and coming

down under the hood.

No, I didn't take the
canopy down or anything.

Yeah.

But, uh, it gave my
boss some pause for

keeping me going.

I went back into
construction,

but yeah.

So that must have been
what you hired, uh,

Steve and his bros for
was being construction.

Was

it?

Yeah.

Yes.

Even Danny and Matt.

Um, so yeah, I, I
just jumped back into

construction and started
my own crew, but I

mean, what is your
background, military

or law enforcement
or what's yours?

Cause I couldn't, I
know on that podcast

you did with April
Vokey and I'm a huge

fan of April Vokey.

You said she asked
you a question.

It was like, well,
you're kind of known as

the gun guy and you're
like, no, I don't want

to be known as the gun.

What's your back.

So, yeah, my background
aside from being in the

army cadet program as
a, uh, as a teenager

and going through that,
that's the closest to

military I've ever been.

Um, I've got family
background in

law enforcement.

My father and grandfather
were law enforcement.

I just was, uh, a bit
of a delinquent in

school, in elementary
school and high school.

And wasn't really
fitting in and I did

like to blow things up.

And nowadays after nine
11, that's not something

that would wear well,
but back in the day, it

was just, Hey, this is
chemistry, or this is

engineering, or this is.

Actually one of the
fellows, he was the

head of the police
academy here at the

justice Institute
in British Columbia.

And he says, travel,
you know, why don't

you come on and
take a few courses.

It might be right up
your alley and, uh, their

firearms related courses.

So at 18 years old, I
started packing a gun on

my hip and was working
as an armor car guard.

And I thought, Hey,
this'll, this'll

be a good step in
the right direction

for, uh, for law
enforcement or military.

I flew over actually
to the UK because

I was going to join
the British military.

Um, but I went through
the process with

our local police
department, Vancouver

police scored top of my
intake on the written.

I came third on the
physical because you

can actually see, uh,
based on where you

place on everybody else.

And they said,
well, Travis,

you're kinda young.

Come on back when he got
a bit more experience and

I've always kind of been
entrepreneurial minded.

I mean, I might.

Job.

I had, I was performing
magic at kids' birthday

parties when I was in
grade four grade five.

Right.

I mean like what,
what can I do?

I can make some money.

And, and even before
that, when I was

working for the armored
car company, I was

welding up all their
hand trucks for them

because I thought, well,
geez, how can I make

a couple extra bucks?

And then I started
doing their gun

smithing for them, went
down to Springfield,

Massachusetts to the
Smith and Western

factory and got myself
trained up on their,

their wheel guns.

And of course, I
guess Springfield's

move in now.

I think they're going to
Tennessee or something.

So always had that
sort of background,

that knowledge base.

And I decided, well,
geez, maybe my life

experience will be,
I'll start a business

and you know, most
businesses fail.

And so if I go through
that and I suck at it,

then I can show that life
experience and go back

and try the policing.

I didn't suck.

It took off and I've,
I've never looked back.

And then we do work
with law enforcement,

for firearms, repair
and maintenance.

Uh, we do work with
like the armored car

industry do and use
of force training.

And I do, I'm a subject
matter expert with

the courts for both
defense and crown

counsel for firearms
and use of force and

weapons related things.

But that's not,
I don't know.

That's just one aspect
of, of what I do.

I wouldn't call you the,
the construction guy.

I know that
you can do it.

That is what I'm probably
the best at you're.

Right,

right.

Yeah.

Well now you're.

Yeah.

Cause I assumed when I,
when I talked to you and

I was watching you in
April on your podcast,

I'm like, oh, he's a Navy
seal or something, you

know, or, uh, or, uh, uh,
uh, Royal Marines or so

I, I just assumed, right.

And I'm like, nah, he
looks like he's about six

foot three and ripped,
you know, my eyes, this

guy's going to tear,
tear, someone's head off.

You know, you
have a fight.

You're the fighting
background.

Yeah.

I, so both
non-professionally

and when I say
non-professionally, I

got into a lot of fights
when I was younger.

And then in a more
organized perspective,

I got into.

Muy Thai kickboxing and
jujitsu and Akido you.

Yeah.

And then our niece or
niece was a kind of

a neat one, but you
do jujitsu don't you?

Yeah.

There you go.

I, uh, see, I, I
did not hear it.

I did not do any
research on that, but

you know, like you
said, when you meet

somebody, like there's
something about him.

It's, if it's
not military it's

martial arts.

And so I, uh, I got
into, I took, uh, some

show to con class in
high school at somebody

other school, but when I
there's a little rabbit

hole, but when I got
divorced, I was married

for a very short time to
the very wrong person,

no kids, no fault.

But when I got
divorced, I wanted

to go kick this other
guy's ass, you know?

And then I was told that,
well, he's a state police

officer and he protects
the governor of Illinois.

Well, that's not
going to be a good

guy to go against.

So now I got, I said, I'm
going to get into March.

So I took Ken Paul
and I was in that

for a long time.

I have a, you
mentioned add and ADHD.

I've got some
version of that.

Cause I can't, I
got to reread and

reread, reread.

So learning all the
cottages and techniques

took me a long time.

I earned a brown belt
in that, um, fought

competitively, but not
for money in amateur, you

know, like tournaments.

Right.

And I would do the forms.

I would do the weapons.

So when you said
our niece, you know,

um, I would do, and
then I would also

do the sparring or

Yeah.

So I did that and did
that in Chicago for

a long time when I
was still in Chicago.

Found schools up in
Michigan and then with

having three daughters,
it was always, there

was always a heavy
bag in my life.

There was always
a heavy bag.

Yes.

There was always a on
the road go to, uh, I'd

go to a dojo and say,
what's your, what's

your walking policy?

Can I walk in for a week?

And I would go
take TaeKwonDo.

It was never a big
fan of the, I wasn't

built for TaeKwonDo.

It's just, I'm not a
Lakey, well stretched

guy, but I mean,
and I would even

enter tournaments
in other cities.

So like, I it's like
so weird then when you

said jujitsu, listen
to the damn Joe Rogan.

I started jujitsu
at age 58.

Holy Crow.

Yeah, because of
Joe Rogan because

of Joe Rogan.

Yup.

That's the power of
the podcast, right?

Yep.

And that's why I
started my podcast.

Cause he got Steve
to start a podcast.

So that man has no
idea how influential

he's been on me.

That's an.

Uh, jujitsu is by far
it's the most, I've never

enjoyed a martial art as
much as jujitsu because

it's so you can put a
hundred percent into it.

And if you're careful
not get hurt, you

know, like Muay Thai,
that's some deadly

shit there poets a task
for your conditioning.

Oh yeah.

But you can't show
a guy a technique at

full strength just to
show him the technique

involves breaking his
face on your knee.

Yes.

You can get yourself,
locked up, tied up,

choked out arm barred.

And you can tap that
you had, that is close

to feeling is so I at
age 60, no, 58, 9 68

61 took me a long time.

I only went a couple
of days a week.

I earned my blue belt,
which was like, yeah.

Good for you.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

I don't even remember.

Are you still training

when COVID hit the
school closed and

the school near me?

I did find a
school last summer.

That's near me.

I walked into a
couple of classes.

I liked the class and
it's probably as soon as

hunting, season's over,
I'm going to, I talked

to the professor there
and I'm going to join

up and get back there a
couple of days a week.

Cause it doesn't get
your legs in shape for

hunting, but boy gets
your, get your heart

going.

It's your heart going?

Like crazy.

Yeah.

Crazy.

Well, you know, I
little bit of a segue

here, but a training.

So I've got the
training background

training company.

That's what I do.

And I've always had a
keen interest in online

training and I happened
to know that, uh, you've

got some background in
online training as well.

Don't you?

Well, now I do, uh, two
years ago, I didn't.

Um, yeah, a friend
of mine, who's a dog

trainer in this area
in west Michigan.

He would come on
my podcast and we

would do question and
answer, uh, segments.

And they were always
well received.

I'm sure.

You know, you get certain
guests on and in the

beginning you always look
at your download numbers.

Like, oh, people
are listening.

I don't look
at it anymore.

And, uh, I got to
turn that ringer off.

I don't look at downloads
anymore until I load up

an episode and it pops up
there on my feed and it's

always pretty consistent.

Um, hang on, I
gotta get that off.

And so, um, the guy
that I used to bring on

Justin McGrail, he was a
really good dog trainer.

And I tried to talk
him into doing like

some YouTube clips
and stuff like that.

Just let's show
some people, some

of the stuff you do.

He's like he, and he
is not a computer guy.

He's not a phone guys,
much younger than

me, but you'd swear.

He was born in
the 18 hundreds.

Yeah.

I think, yeah, they, the
phone to him is just,

someone's got to call
me, so I have to have

a phone, but that's
all he wants it for.

Right.

If a tin can and a
string of work, he'd

be happy with it.

So he looked at
some YouTube videos.

He's like, no, no.

He said, I'm not, I am
not putting myself out on

YouTube and sorry, Ron.

I enjoy doing the
podcast with, you

know, I I've got a
little rhythm going.

I, I enjoyed the
questions he said,

and then one day were
kicking something around

and it just turned into
like, well, what if

we filmed what you do?

So it's not like the
only way to train a dog.

It's just the
way he trains his

dogs in the past.

He guides for like six
weeks in Montana, six

weeks in, uh, Arizona.

Now on those trips,
there's some non

hunting season time.

But anyway, Scott
used to be on the

road 12 weeks a year.

Guiding wild bird hunts
and Arizona and Montana.

So, I mean, he is as real
as you can get when it

comes to wild bird, dog,
and, and the training it

takes to make that dog.

So we started coming
up with this, you know,

cockamamie idea that
we're going to have an

online training school.

We didn't know what
that meant, you know,

but in now a year and a
half of filming and, uh,

eight months of editing,
it's, it's out there.

It's called the
Upland Institute.

It's based on all
the dogs we use

are pointing dogs.

So, I mean, for the few
listeners that you or

I would have that be
like, okay, I know what

a German Shorthaired
pointer and a Labrador

is a flushing dog, but
there's a lot of same

stuff in those dogs.

Just one happens
to flush a bird.

One happens to point.

So this course is tailor
made for appointing.

But it also tailor made
for, if you got a new

dog it's tailor made for
like, what do I do with

this dog when it's young,
when you asked early on,

how do I, you know, when
does training start?

Well, it starts early
and there's a lot of

little things that, you
know, I've known this

guy for a long time.

I'm like, I didn't
know you did that

with your puppy when
he was that age.

Like just these
little things.

And so we filmed it
and then we filmed

it when they got
older and we filmed.

And then we just went
into, we went into

the weeds with it and
we felt that we had

enough content to,
you know, create, you

know, we had somebody
create a website.

And so I had no
background in online

training, but, you know,
I kind of do now, but

like how, how did, how
did you, I mean, did you

go at it like with your
eyes closed, like we do

with podcasts or were
you doing live training

and then turned it to.

So, yes and no.

So when we talk with
the whole ADHD thing

and I've joked in other
podcasts about it, so

I was diagnosed with
ADHD at a young age.

I don't even know if I
have ADHD, but it was

just seems like to be the
common thing that people

would diagnosed with.

But I do know that
I'm always looking

at new things and
I'm always trying

to invent or create.

And, and on the training
side, I did not do

well in school, which
is really funny for

a guy who now owns
a training company.

But I was able to take
like from the cadet

side, the man management
method of instruction and

all the, the military,
uh, techniques for

providing training,
whether it be theoretical

or practical training.

And I thought, man, they
kind of got it dialed in.

They can take people
from the all different

spectrums, from the
lowest common denominator

to bright people, get
them all on the same

page, get them trained
up, get them proficient

and get them going.

So.

I looked at that.

And by around 2004, 2005,
I was already certified

as a, uh, a master
instructor within the

firearms training here.

That's a designation from
our RCMP for, um, just

some really basic sort
of safety training that

we do, but I'm able to
train other trainers.

And I started having
talks with the

different government
officials about saying,

you guys got to put
your stuff online.

You have to have some
sort of consistency in

the, in the delivery and
the approach and looking

at these benefits.

And, you know, it
kind of fell on deaf

ears, despite all the
different, uh, people

I was talking with
and they're flying

people, uh, from
back east over here.

And I thought, man,
they're just pumping

me for information
and they're gonna

go do it themselves.

So I started delving
deeper and deeper into

the, into sort of the
online training world and

there's pros and cons.

I mean, you can learn
a lot in an in-person

course that you
wouldn't get online

and vice versa.

Totally.

So how do we, how
do we speak to those

pros in the online?

Because being a, uh, a
small business owner,

uh, and having employees,
w w our reach is only

so far, we've got the
lower mainland, we've

got our locations.

You can only get so many
people in a classroom,

and you can only have so
many instructors, right.

And instructors will have
a, um, a turnover rate.

How can we sort
of systemize that?

So people can get the
quality of information

and sort of without
the downside of that

administrative side.

And that's where that's
sort of where the online

training kind of came in.

And I actually, I took
it from an approach.

I wanted to build
a SAS or a software

as a service.

And I had, uh, at,
at the end, I think

it was five different
programmers, building

something for me.

And I had zero business
building a SAS, and I

sunk a lot of money and
time and energy into this

only to realize there's
other ways we can.

We can skin this cat.

And so the online
training has

been a passion.

And right now we hold the
contract for provincial

hunter education training
in British Columbia.

And every dollar that
I have coming back in

from that goes back into
new hunter recruitment,

hunter retention, getting
people into the activity

that I, that I enjoy
and hopefully try and

introduce them to some
of the reasons for that

enjoyment we've tripled.

We've tripled our
provinces, uh, take on,

uh, what they've been
bringing in, which is

fantastic and massive
new hunter retention

or recruitment and
hunter retention.

So that's sort of a
passion project and I'm

sure if I keep following
that passion, at some

point, there will be
a monetary reward at

the end, but that's
not why I do it sort of

long-winded but I think
that kind of touches

on why I got into it.

Did you, did you
run into the.

The like, oh my God,
we have to film this

in on-camera and is it
like, oh, shit moment.

Like, you know, no
wonder why I can

watch television.

There's a lot of stuff
that goes on to make

that television show.

Right.

And a lot of footage
just never get

seen by anybody.

You know,

our very first course
that we put together

and put online and I
put a press release

out on Newswire for it.

And we hired a fellow to
do sort of the filming

and production of it.

And so I learned a
lot about the process

of like scripting a
storyboarding and kind

of what's involved.

I also learned holy Crow,
some of these people

that get into this, I
don't know, I'm using

air brackets for people
that are listening, but

this Hollywood mentality
or this Hollywood.

I am.

I never had somebody be
able to push my buttons.

So either this guy
could and holy Crow,

it was like, we would
get somebody trained

up and I would find a
appropriate male model

and female model or
actor or actress for,

for different things.

And, and on the night
before he would fire

them and he says, oh,
I met somebody out

at the Siri sky train
station and we're going

to give them the job.

And I mean, it was, it
was all over the board.

And I, I was so
frustrated by the end,

we have a final product.

It costs a lot more
than I wanted that.

I went out and I
purchased my own

audio equipment, my
own video equipment.

And I figured if
one man can do it,

another can do it.

I'm going to
figure this out.

And we started
proceeding with our,

our future courses
from that perspective,

you know, and that's.

I'm sure that this
was not a COVID thing.

It could be a COVID
thing, you know, because

of everybody being able
to go out and certainly

it's way more popular.

I mean, kids are going to
school online, which that

was unheard of, you know?

I mean, I'm sure there
was some college courses

that you could take
online back in the day.

I always heard
the commercials.

Yeah.

Um, but, but getting
into that is it's,

it's almost like
sometimes you're like,

you're so proud of it.

And the other part is
like, well, why wouldn't

people just come to me
and learn this well, but

then you could reach,
like you said, you can

reach so many more people
what you've done with

the numbers for, you
know, the hunter state.

Like I know there's an
online hunter safety

now I'm old enough that
most places I don't

go, I go, I don't need
a hunter safety card.

Right.

In fact, in fact, I
remember I took my twin

daughters and my youngest
daughter to Kansas.

So that would have
been a long time ago.

They were just getting
their driver's permit.

There were 15 and they're
in their mid thirties.

So 15 plus years ago,
and I had not hunted

Kansas previously went
to South Dakota, North

Dakota, Texas, Oklahoma
mountain, all over,

never hunted Kansas.

So I go and you
know, there was,

there was computers.

Then you could look
in that long ago, but

I went on there and
it said, enter your

hunter safety number.

And it said, or check
here if you're old

enough, like, well, of
course I'm old enough.

Well, I already
put my information

down up in the top.

I hit.

The button didn't
say, of course I'm old

enough, but it was,
and then it said little

red line come up.

You are not old enough.

I'm like, what

really?

I'm not

old enough.

You know, they
didn't even have good

automatic shotguns.

When I started hunting.

Anyway, turns out I
was like eight months

too young to just
go to the state of

Kansas and then trust
me to have firearms.

So I had to take a
hunter safety course.

So, yeah.

And so my kids did it
in high school, which

was great, you know,
at Boulder state,

you know, we're in a
rural area of Michigan

had boater safety
was a hunter safety,

all kinds of things,
you know, they talk.

And so I had to, I
had to do a hunter

safety class when I
was like in my forties.

Like I'm, I know
more about guns than

you do, but, but it
would have been not

really, not really.

It was pretty
rudimentary.

Yeah.

Um, and the instructor
that actually that I

know he's like probably
shouldn't say it, but

I think statute of
limitations ran out and

he goes, we're not need,
we don't need to go in

the field for the field.

Right.

You've answered all
the questions on the,

you know yeah, I did.

But I think that a hunter
safety, I think that

that is so cool that
that's out there for

the kids, because it's
not going to teach you

how to shoot a bird, but
it's going to drill that

one or two things into
your head, you know?

And I drilled
it into my kids.

It's that?

Where's that
barrel point.

Where is that
barrel pool?

And if.

That's it.

Yeah.

We told people, I said,
you know, if you violate

all of the other safety
principles, if your

fingers on the trigger,
you didn't check to

see if it was loaded.

You trip, you fall
equals bang, but at the

very least you control
that muscle direction.

You've got no
loss of life.

You have minimal
property damage.

Your ears are ringing.

People are screaming
at you, but that's the

fundamental of all of,
all of that safety.

But I think for my, my
personal standpoint, and

I'm, you know, I'm still
learning, but for sort

of, let's say, talk about
online hunter education.

I think I could do so
much more than what

it currently does.

I mean, we live in such
a litigious society that

everybody's now says,
well, geez, like you

look at the ERT members.

Well, are you door
kicker certified.

If you're not door
kicker certified, you

can't get a good door.

And right.

Everyone figures, if
you have a certificate

or some sort of.

Piece of paper over
your head, then, then

you're going to be
competent, proficient

in what you do.

Or maybe it's from
the other side.

Now in an organization
can say, Hey, we've

done our part, right?

We've done our
due diligence.

Don't can come after us.

But what if they use
hunter education in

a way to, um, to vote
and inspire people

to get outside?

And what if it was put
out in such a way that

maybe wasn't necessarily
strictly hunter

education, but that could
be a component of it.

Cause any course that you
do about hunting hunter

education, it's not going
to teach you how to hunt.

It'll teach you
how to be safe.

I'll teach you
how to be legal.

But what about the vast
majority of people that

go to school that maybe
just want to learn how to

hike could be, have some
knowledge of the flora

and fauna around them or
be safe in bear country.

And I think if it was
maybe modularized and

put out in, in such
a way that, uh, could

attract a much wider
audience than the whole

conversation around
hunting could be talking.

Maybe maybe talked about
it in a different light.

I don't know.

Well, yeah, I, I, I,
uh, I kinda, I envy the

kids that can do it and
not envy them, but I'm

glad they do it, but it
would be cool if that

class was just more than
just what it was just

a little bit more like
almost like a teaser

commercial for a movie.

Right.

So you're showing
the passion.

Right, right.

You're you're cause you
could, you know, you

remember going to school
and the guy would put a

movie on it was health
education, like totally.

You know, but, and I'm
being obviously way

off the rails here.

If health education had
two or three minutes of.

All right.

Let's say soft porn.

Not, not for two or
three minutes of like,

oh, the kids would
be paying attention.

Those students would
be like, Ooh, I'm

going to be here.

And I'm going to
be careful too.

You know?

So, you know, you're
a hunter safety course

has to expand into like
some hunting segments,

you know, some raid
ducks dropping out of

the sky, the tailgate.

Yeah.

So everyone says, oh
man, why can't you

teach whatever, right.

Oh, I wish we went
to the range on this.

Like in the, in Canada,
in order to get a

firearms license, you
have to have some basic

safety training, you
know, but the laws

and history and, and
actions and safety

and, and all the rest.

And they say, oh man,
we should have a, a

live fire portion.

And some
countries do that.

Like Germany
will have that.

And I say, well,
you know, each one

of those would be
a barrier to lawful

firearms ownership.

Um, there are important
points that people

can know about.

But what if you instill
a passion, some just

rudimentary fundamentals
and instilled sort

of the drive to
want to learn more.

And that's what
we try and do with

our, our courses.

Cause I mean,
we've got YouTube.

You can learn anything
you want on YouTube

or through Google.

The issue is, is you've
got to sort through

a lot of garbage to
get there, right?

Where your course
is really good.

This is a particularly
curated course for

someone like it's curates
all of this information.

It's not the only way
to train your hunting

dog, but it's a proven
method that works for

you and your friends and
the people that, and I

think there's, that's
where the value is in.

In online training,
condensed, curated,

uh, content.

That'll get somebody
where they need to

go in a quick way.

When you look at it
from a certification

standpoint and checking
boxes, or I got to sit

in front of my computer
for X amount of time.

I mean, you're
probably like me.

If I have to do an
online course, I'm going

to go to the very end
and do the test and see

what do I know and what
don't I know, right?

Yeah.

Yup.

Yeah.

Just like we
were in school,

right?

If you want to be
somewhere else, I didn't

want to be in school.

Right?

Well, I'll leave it up
to you to work on the,

uh, the better hunter
trainer safety online

school, and you leave
it up to me to work on

the, uh, our, our tagline
is be a better trainer.

Oh,

I love it.

I'm going to, I'm going
to sign up for your

course and I'm going
to put links in the

podcast or both on the
podcast and in YouTube.

So anyone else who wants
to check it out can

appreciate it.

All right.

Well, is there anything
else that we should

be chatting about?

No, I mean, nothing,
unless we got into

like rabbit holes, but
you know, no, I mean,

it was, it was good.

It was great to meet you.

I, I feel like we could
go onto mat together.

I got, I got to go.

I still got, I still
got a role in a G I

don't like no geek
because I'm old.

I still need something
to hang on to a car,

but I feel like if we
ever bumped into each

other, you say, Hey,
let's get on the mat and

let's roll, you know?

And there to me, like,
you know, the jujitsu

world, that's kinda
like the hunting world.

Like, there's like
a weird brotherhood

totally is in general.

But jujitsu is like,
oh my God, it is the,

it's the best thing I
ever did in my life.

I just wish I'd have
started earlier.

You know?

Um, well, I cannot tell
people like, couldn't.

Th the last class I went
to when you said that I

have, I, am I still in
it while I was out of

it, completely for the
co the big COVID part.

And I really missed
going, and I'm in

worse shape now than,
you know, because I

haven't done it, but
I can get that back.

But when I went to this
class at this school,

that's in my town now,
cause I used to travel

to go to do this.

It was an hour away.

And, uh, which, you
know, in Canada may not

be a long ways, but it
was an office on the

road.

Come on.

That's just like
going to, it's like

going to Montana, I'm
going to go to Philly.

But on the second class
I was there and I was,

I was really sucking
some air pretty good.

You know, I was like,
Hmm, I can still

remember how to defend
myself, but I wasn't

getting very far.

And the, the professor,
you know, he's very,

very nice guy and.

I can tell you
says, Ryan, you're

gonna roll again.

Come on, get
another partner.

I said, hang on a minute.

I literally being
my chatty Cathy

onstage self.

I said, oh, hold on,
everybody, hold on.

I said, could some
of you kids bring

your dads tomorrow?

You bring your
dads in here.

So I got someone near my
decade to, but I that's,

it I'd say other than
dogs, bird hunting and

people like jujitsu's
number four, you know?

Awesome.

Well, I think, uh, I
think we're going to

have to get into some
rabbit holes maybe at

another time if you'll
have me, but, uh, yeah.

We'll,

we'll go down the,
we'll go down to my gun

stuff, your gun stuff,
martial arts stuff.

Uh, we could touch
on ADHD cause they

didn't diagnose me.

Cause I didn't sit
still long enough

to be diagnosed.

And your other door,
we can talk about the

Beretta that I sold.

Nice over, under
like E L that a

sold for 800 bucks.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I think that'll be fun.

Let's make sure we do
it once or twice a year.

It sounds

great, Ron.

Well, thanks very much.

This has been
a lot of fun.

It's been a pleasure.

I made another
new friend.

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