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Our podcast features special guests and leaders discussing the many projects, partnerships, and innovations driving hydrogen adoption — starting in the Edmonton Metro Region, and expanding outward to Alberta, Canada, and the World.
Edmonton Region Hydrogen HUB is a collaborative initiative dedicated to advancing a thriving hydrogen economy in the Edmonton Region and beyond. Bringing together municipalities, industry, and associations, the HUB focuses on building a robust hydrogen value chain through collaboration, system integration, and policy advocacy. Leveraging the region’s world-class hydrogen production facilities and strategic infrastructure, the HUB drives innovation, promotes decarbonization, and stimulates economic growth, positioning the Edmonton region as a global leader in sustainable hydrogen development.
Welcome to the hydrogen two point o podcast where Alberta's energy story evolves. Join us as we explore what's changed, what's working, and what's next from Edmonton to beyond. Here's your host, Kessie Akopecke.
Kessia:Hello, listeners, and welcome to our latest episode of hydrogen two point o. Today in this episode, we're gonna be talking about how we're building tomorrow's hydrogen ecosystem through innovation. With me, I have Dave with Alberta Innovates and Iftikar with Emissions Reduction Alberta. So thank you both so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to dive into all the things innovation and funding, what kinds of signals and, things that the industry can look forward to in our hydrogen economy.
Kessia:So first, I'd like to just grab your introduction so that anybody listening in who might not know who you are can start to learn who you are. So, Dave, do you wanna go ahead and start with us?
Dave:Sure thing. Can do. So hello. I'm Dave Vandanassam. I'm working at Alberta Innovates, and I'm also the director of the Alberta Hydrogen Centre of Excellence.
Kessia:Perfect. And Iftikar, can you give me an introduction?
Iftikhar:Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Iftikhar Huq with, Emissions Reduction Alberta. I've had a couple of decades of working in the energy space, including hydrogen and other sustainable technologies, and trying to drive them from concept to commercialization.
Kessia:Perfect. Thank you so much both of you for joining today. Really excited to get into this conversation. So first, I'd like to talk to both of you about the role that both of your organizations play in funding hydrogen projects in the province and specifically in the Edmonton region as well, if we can get that specific. Can you tell me a little bit, Iftikhar, about the role that you play in the innovation ecosystem when it comes to new hydrogen projects or existing hydrogen projects?
Iftikhar:You know, we have a pretty robust innovation ecosystem in the province, and we work seamlessly with multiple partners. So in particular, Alberta Innovates and Emissions Reduction Alberta are so called trusted partners. So we have similar evaluation criteria. We often refer projects from one to the other. And so the early innovation technology start up in the, in the earlier technology readiness levels, and so that would typically be with Alberta Innovates.
Iftikhar:And Then as they progress to pilot plants and field demonstrations, they're often referred to emissions reduction in Alberta where we fund sort of that technology readiness levels five onwards all the way to commercial deployment. And so our space in the ecosystem is providing grant funding to innovators to advance their technologies from pilot plants where they have actually tested the concepts, it looks pretty promising, all the way out to commercial deployment in the field. And we have multiple examples where we've been able to advance these technologies forward.
Kessia:And, Dave, on your end, does that mean that you're more funding the the kind of startup stages or early stages of research and and innovation, or is there another stage in there?
Dave:Yeah. So as as Iveskar mentioned, we we will come in in the earlier stages. Typically, we'll come in once a there's a a proof of a concept, and then we will help them get to that field pilot
Iftikhar:state. And
Dave:after they've done, you know, their first field pilot, then they're they're ready for the later stage work and support that emissions reduction Alberta provides. So it's a nice nice seamless conveyor belt, if you will, of of opportunities for technology providers to be able to see their way through. Now in the earlier stages before you get to that proof of concept, typically that's done at the universities, the postsecondaries, and there's different funding programs that help support those as well. There are a few programs within Alberta Innovates that also get into that area, but but primarily, it's it's through the postsecondaries.
Kessia:When you pass over from one project, like, from Alberta Innovates over to ERA, is there any point in time or any are there any projects where the two organizations are very collaborative, or are there areas where there's gaps at all between that stage?
Iftikhar:David, you're gonna go first?
Kessia:Sorry. It's not written into my notes. So if you don't feel like that's a good question, we can can pass on it. It's just kinda came to my head on a curiosity.
Dave:Well, we we can we can work through that. Yeah. I'd say the it's a it's a very quite a seamless process. As Yiftar mentioned earlier, there's a lot of referrals that can happen. So as a project is wrapping up with Alberta innovates and they're they're clearly meeting the the advanced technology advancement stages that that they intended to, and they look like they're ready for that next stage of involvement, then we can make we can make a referral over to emissions reduction Alberta.
Dave:And we also can mention to them, you know, hey, there's a competition coming up that ERA runs from time to time. That would be a great one for you to get involved in. And vice versa, if a proponent comes to ERA and in a competition and their technology is too early, then ERA, you know, calls us up and says, hey, these folks might be really good for you. And so I think that relationship works really well. Istikar, maybe you got a few other examples or ideas there.
Iftikhar:Yeah. No, Dave. That's a that's a great point. I think it's a very seamless sort of integration and translation between between the two organizations. I think we collaborate really well together.
Iftikhar:We often help each other out with the subject matter expertise. And we are very, you know, sort of cognizant about referring opportunities to each other depending on where an opportunity is on the technology readiness development scale and what their needs are in terms of actually getting those technologies from innovation to to commercialization.
Dave:And maybe just one thing to add there. We also support each other in the proposal review process so that we each have a line of sight as to what is coming in to each other's organizations to help help guide and and make those assessments as well.
Kessia:In this innovation ecosystem, how much are you seeing how much activity are you seeing with your projects? Do you find that there's a lot of opportunities to be investing or funding hydrogen innovation projects? Has that changed over the last couple of years?
Iftikhar:You know, I was just looking at a joint presentation that Alberta innovates in the area developed, and I think in total, this is a little bit dated. This is from the summer. But I think there's somewhere in the in the range of about a $140,150,000,000 dollars of total funding that has gone out over the last, let's say, five to ten five years or so. Total project value, about $2,200,000,000. So there's quite a bit of of investment going going out into the innovation ecosystem.
Iftikhar:What we've also done, which is interesting, is is looked at, you know, where did we distribute that funding. So but just because of the size of the projects as they come into the ERA portfolio, out of the 140, 150, maybe two thirds of that was through the ERA, and about a third of that was through Alberta Innovates. And that's simply a reflection of the scale of the of the technologies that are coming through at a given time. Right? If you're going into the field, that's gonna cost quite a bit more than, let's say, if you're still in a lab stage or a large pilot stage.
Iftikhar:And so we have this this collaborative funding. Key drivers on that were things like clarity on on on on the regulations around hydrogen, the drive towards a net zero environment, the need for for hydrogen as a new transportation fuel, potentially an advanced fuel. And so there's quite a few drivers for getting that early interest. I think since then, there's probably I think we're starting to get into a field into a region of additional clarity from the regulatory perspective, but there are some additional interesting drivers that are gonna drive the technologies. I might also add that, over the over this past summer, you know, ERA has had about spent over a billion dollars.
Iftikhar:They've distributed over a billion dollars of grant funding to over 320 different projects, of which about a third of them have been commercialized, which we deem to be commercialized. And we actually interviewed the vast majority of those commercially successful projects to understand what is it that drove commercialization, what is it that, you know, that they were able to leverage ERA and and, you know, innovation ecosystem funding for. If they could start over again, what would they do, and how else could we support them? Right? So we have a really rich repository of feedback.
Iftikhar:And at some point, I guess we can get into some of the feedback that they provided from you know, just in terms of what does it take to succeed commercializing technologies.
Dave:So yeah. No. My friend covered a lot of the ground there, so I don't have a whole lot to add. But I'd say that, yeah, at any one time, Albany Innovates has two, three, sometimes 400 projects on a go. Albany Innovates has been around since, my goodness, the nineteen twenties.
Dave:So we celebrated our hundredth year a few a few years ago. So it's it's been around quite a bit and we've seen a lot happen. Now, of course, hydrogen's one of the exciting areas we've been working on lately, but there's certainly a lot more innovation opportunities in the in the ecosystem here. And and there's always more opportunities than there are than there is funding available to support them. So it's a it's quite a competitive process.
Dave:And and we find that when we do run a competition and and I know ERA does has the same the, you know, the there's there's considerably more interest and more proposals and more funding requests than there is money available. So it it's quite challenging to to to get the funding. And I think once companies are in and they get that funding, then they they have a lot of opportunity to make some good progress with with support from from the ourselves.
Kessia:I guess that leads me to my next question. When you're looking at projects and who to fund in the future or in the now, are there any kinds of signals that tell you that they're the right project for you to be supporting? Or are there any maybe it's something about are are they filling specific gaps in the in the economy? What might that look like? Dave, you're nodding.
Dave:Sure. We'll have I'll I'll start it if guys got lots of ideas on this as well. We have some criteria that we look for in a proposal to make sure it meets, you know, where we wanna go and has a high value opportunity. So we really look at, you know, the level of innovation in the solution. Is this something new?
Dave:Is this been never been done before? Is this good for creating knowledge in the province? Is there a competitive advantage that this solution has over the things that are out there now and that can be sustained over time? And, you know, what are the impacts of this? Is it going to have a significant environmental impact?
Dave:Is it gonna have a significant economic impact, social impact, all in positive directions. We wanna see the combination of all these things. And of course, one of the main things, if it's a technology provider that's looking to sell into a established industry, Is the industry interested in this? Do they do they want to be looking at this, exploring this, contributing to this project, to this solution? Is this an important solution for them to to be able to help their business get get stronger.
Dave:So those are sort of the key things that we look for. And as the projects mature, then then, you know, ERA has those lenses plus probably a few others. Maybe Iftikhar you wanna share.
Iftikhar:Yeah. No. That's that's fantastic, Dave. I think one of the things I was just thinking as you're describing this is you have a much broader sort of review. We have a funnel like system where a bird database is looking at the front end of the funnel and, know, doing a lot of strategic alignment and testing against strategic alignment for the province and and innovation more broadly.
Iftikhar:And as they come into the to the narrower parts of the funnel, then then ERA gets involved. I think one of the things that would be important to point out for our listeners is that while ERA has had a traditionally has had a mandate around strict, you know, like, GHG reduction, we have expanded that mandate to include all emissions reduction in addition to g to greenhouse gases. And so that really opens up the spectrum of of innovation that can come into the ERA funnel. The other thing we've also done, and this is some feedback we received from our stakeholders, in particular, market and the and and, you know, the end user and the and to some extent, the government as well is it's important to have some view on what the economic prospects of the projects are. And so the the weighting on the economics of the project, the economic viability of the project has has gotten increased.
Iftikhar:Right? So there's two you know, coming from industry, to me, those are really important changes. One of them is looking at emissions more broadly in addition to greenhouse gases because most technologies have multiple benefits, environmental benefits, social benefits, economic benefits, but also looking at the economics of the projects. Because at the end of the day, that's what's gonna drive larger scale deployment. And so myself, looking at what is the impact of the projects that we have in the ERA portfolio, those are the kinds of questions that are important.
Iftikhar:Right? How many have have been commercialized? And off that, how many ended up being, you know, broadly deployed in the industry? And the what are those characteristics? And that is what we are trying to tweeze around in the in the interviews that we had with the with the commercialized technologies.
Iftikhar:What is it about what they produce, those innovators produce that got them to successful commercial?
Kessia:Okay. That leads me to my next question. So you're talking a lot about how you've had these projects that you've supported over time and even the criteria or what you're looking for in the gaps have changed over time and how you treat those projects. So I'm wondering if you can maybe look towards how that might be a reflection of what's happening in the Edmonton region's hydrogen economy or even Alberta more broadly. And on that note too, while you're thinking about that and while you're talking about that, maybe there's some projects specifically that you can think of that might be good examples.
Kessia:Dave, if you wanna go ahead first and and tell me what you're thinking.
Dave:Yeah, for sure. Thanks for that question. And yeah, as you're saying that a few things come to mind here. When we first started with the hydrogen center of excellence and the funding calls, we cast the net pretty wide to capture a lot of different ideas across the value chain. So all the way from production through storage, transmission distribution, and a wider array of end uses.
Dave:And, you know, as the projects have developed over the past few years since 2022 and, you know, the ecosystem has kind of shifted and changed and morphed. What we're finding is where we can focus more on some of the the shorter term win opportunities that that are emerging. Things that are, you know, closer to being economic as a as we as we get them more established and get them advanced. And and so we're able to really then hone in on on some of these key areas that that are of interest. And, you know, the transportation sector certainly is one of the, you know, low hanging fruit kind of ideas.
Dave:And and so there's been a number of projects we've supported. One comes to mind right now in the in the hydrogen dual fuel recombination with diesel solution. And it so Diesel Tech Industries is a local Edmonton based company. They do some they've been doing great work for for a while on optimizing, you know, high heavy duty diesel vehicle operations. And they decided they wanted to get into the into the dual fuel market a while back.
Dave:So we funded a project with them to test out some new solutions. How can you combine dual fuel into into the fleets? And so they ran a project with us through the first round of funding. That was a success. And they've moved on since then to do some projects with emissions reduction in Alberta, as well as some other follow on projects with different classes of vehicles.
Dave:So they're really growing and expanding. If And the car maybe you wanna either pick up on that one or you've got some other ideas of examples that would help.
Iftikhar:Yeah. David, I I think that's a that's a great example. I actually had that David and I did not talk about this, but diesel tech industries is one of those great examples of technologies that have come in. It's low it's local innovation. They you know?
Iftikhar:And it kind of reflects some of those key attributes of of successful technology, you know, innovators that have actually successfully commercialized the technologies. So an Alberta based organization out of Edmonton and a very strong technical team that have been that really understand the diesel engine space. And so they had a they had an idea to to inject dual fuels. They developed an idea, and as Dave was saying, you know, Albert Innovates had the initial projects. And then we subsequently funded them to to advance those technologies and actually get them deployed in the in several class eight heavy heavy haul trucks.
Iftikhar:Right? So they're able to test those out. They are they've had some pretty good success on on proving it out, demonstrated reductions in emissions. It's a bit of a cost effective solution. And so, you know, those are the kinds of technologies where as you start getting that supply chain that that Dave just talked about, they they are sort of poised at the back end of actually deploying these technologies at scale.
Kessia:With that, looking at, you know, our economy here as well as what you're doing to support companies here, is there any kind of international or global flavor to the work that you do in supporting maybe international collaborations, partnerships? Maybe it's even following or leaning into or taking advantage of some global trends that are shaping. Is there any kind of international flavor on that?
Dave:So, yeah, there's there's some exciting things happening. We've certainly had some great conversations with representatives from several different organizations and government groups. We had from coming over from Japan, coming over from Korea, who are interested in what we're doing. They are interested in the potential market opportunities that exist here and are excited about perhaps participating and supporting those. And so we'll, you know, those are early days conversations, but I think a really promising start.
Dave:And we're quite excited about that. And of course, there are a number of MOUs signed by various different types of government with other organizations globally that have a lot of potential to help to move the hydrogen opportunities further down the road here. Dev Takar, any any thoughts from the ERA side on that?
Iftikhar:Yeah. Dave, that's that's great. I think the the only thing I might add is we I think we collectively look more broadly at sources of innovation. There's no expect you know, innovation can happen anywhere in the world. Right?
Iftikhar:So we are quite open to having opportunities come through that are international opportunities to to as long as there's a there's a potential application ultimately for Alberta, think we are quite open to having, the engagement. More formally, emissions reduction in Alberta actually has a co funded program with the European Union, for example. And so what what that is is an opportunity to leverage EU funding with tier funding and also enable innovators coming in from both sides of the of the pond to work together and get gain market access on both sides. And so those kinds of formal programs are are ones where we are able to advertise the opportunities in the province to a much broader audience, in this case, Europe, and have some of those opportunities come through. And we actually have several opportunities coming in through those kinds of programs to for joint funding.
Kessia:Perfect. I guess that leads me to my next one. And, Iftikhar, you kind of already answered part of it, but maybe we can dive deeper into that one. When we're looking at, what you guys are paying attention to in the future, what kind of competitions are coming out, what incentives or different kinds of programs you'd have in place, what is Alberta Innovates and Emissions Reduction Alberta paying attention to that industry should also be keeping tabs on?
Iftikhar:Yes. Yes. So that's a that's a great question, Cassie. I think, you know, as as we look at the new regulations, the clarity around new regulations, so for example, methane emissions out of diesel engines, you know, we we did a a study over the summer to understand where the sources of methane emissions were in the province. And one of the big sources of methane emissions is in the is for is methane slip through compressors and and other engines being used in oil and gas facilities.
Iftikhar:And so one of the interesting findings we've had is if you can actually blend in some hydrogen into those engines, it reduces methane emissions. And methane is a as as we all know, is a is a pretty potent greenhouse gas. And so being able to add streams of hydrogen and dual blending that fuel can actually help reduce emissions. So those are some of the opportunities we are looking at. The other opportunity for hydrogen, and maybe before I jump into the second opportunity, is we just launched about two weeks ago a program called the methane MRDP, so methane reduction deployment program.
Iftikhar:That's a $22,400,000 pot from the government of Alberta, really focused on mitigating or reducing methane in the province. And so the way we have structured that is the applicant would have to be an operator because that's where the deployment the reductions actually occur. But they can partner up with the innovators across the board to drive those technologies to to commercial deployment and and and get the get methane reductions happening. The second one that's important is the clean fuels regulations, the federal clean fuel regulations. And that's one where the federal government has targets for emission intensity of gasoline and diesel to current transportation fields.
Iftikhar:And so the producers have to pay if taxing around that. But that can actually be used to drive innovation. And hydrogen is a clean fuel regulations category three opportunity, which is it's a new advanced fuel. So we're we're designing a program to to release some funding under that under what we're calling the fuel innovation fund, FIF. That should be coming out sometime in the new year.
Kessia:For anybody listening and wanting to learn more, I'll leave some information on how to get ahold of IFTA and learn more about those programs in the description. So don't feel like you just have to hear it. We'll also give you some resources for that for anybody that's interested. Dave, I saw that you wanted to chime in on this one as as well, so let me know what you're thinking.
Dave:For sure. And the I wanna pick up on Ithaca's first point about the methane emission reduction technologies. And, you know, we had a big push for a few years on identifying and supporting and advancing different technologies at the earlier technology readiness levels. And, you know, many of them were very successful in in advancing and they're the ones that ERA is now looking at in in their competition. So so another example of the the funnel of the ecosystem doing what it's supposed to.
Dave:I'd say, you know, further to your original question, Kessia, the couple of interesting areas to keep an eye on. Certainly, you know, we're we're following what industry priorities are. We're following very closely what the, you know, what the regulations look like and trying to help support technology advancement to to help meet those regulations. You know, some other areas that are exciting and in early days of discussion and planning are in the data centers and with some extra aerospace and defense support. And so we're exploring those opportunities as well.
Dave:Like I said, early days. So we're really defining what our role could be. But I think it's those both of those are exciting areas to be keeping an eye on.
Kessia:Well, I think that wraps up this episode of Hydrogen two point o. So thank you both. I do want to give you guys both the opportunity to say any last words if there's anything that you want to add in to the audience just as a final goodbye. Iftikhar, is there anything that you wanna let the audience know aside from the projects that you've already mentioned?
Iftikhar:I think it's an interesting space for for innovators and deployment opportunities. The two programs I talked about are on our website. So if you want more information, it's it's already published on our website. There are some very interesting traits, I think, we've seen in terms of the of what successful commercialization looks like. And so we are we are hoping to enable and and provide some of the information to the innovation ecosystem so that folks know where you know, what does success look like?
Iftikhar:And the other thing I think and Dave brought this up, is the transparency that we have with with the innovators. Right? We are our criteria are public. The the method of evaluation is public. The the relationship we have between Alberta Innovates and ERA is very strong, but I think that's also demonstrated publicly.
Iftikhar:And so it's it's it's always an exciting time to be an innovation.
Kessia:David, any last words for our audience?
Dave:I'd say some of the exciting opportunities to really connect with folks that are doing work in this space coming up would be with the April Canadian Hydrogen Convention at the Convention Center in Edmonton. It's been quite the popular events, one of the leading national events and certainly been a big part of that, both ERA and Alberta Innovates. And of course, all of the folks that we are funding are also have a strong presence there. So, you know, if you wanted to get involved and and be a part of that, then certainly keep your eyes open. It does fill up quickly and hotels become hard to find as you get closer to the date.
Dave:So, you know, be sure to plan ahead on and check that out. And, you know, I think the Edmonton region hydrogen hub has a lot of events that they that they run, and you can probably fill us in a bit more on those and give your listeners some some links to to check out. So those are definitely worth looking at as well.
Kessia:Yeah. Definitely. The Canadian Hydrogen Convention, everybody listening, we hope to see you there in April. Take Dave's advice and plan ahead and plan early. It's, I think the website's hydrogenexpo.com.
Kessia:So definitely get your tickets, and maybe we'll all get to meet there again together. So, yeah, thank you both so much for coming today. Really appreciate it. Our first December episode of Hydrogen two point o. And I think it was a really great conversation, and it was great to learn with both of you.
Iftikhar:Well, thank
Dave:you very much for having
Iftikhar:us here. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. Thanks so much.
Kessia:That's it for today's episode of Hydrogen two point o. If you are looking to learn more about the Edmonton region's hydrogen economy, learn more about the Edmonton Region Hydrogen Hub, or get in touch with us, you can visit hydrogen.ca or send us an email at hello@hydrogen.ca. Also, feel free to follow us on LinkedIn, the Edmonton Region Hydrogen Hub, to stay up to date on all the news and all the activities happening in our hydrogen economy.