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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
Subscribe now for weekly episodes that celebrate the unpredictable, the playful, and the deeply human side of making things. Join the mailing list at mischiefpod.com
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Mishu Hilmy (00:03.222)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life and that steady and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big bold
risky moves. So if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hello everyone, it's Mishu and welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Today we are talking to Katie Bellantone. Katie's an actor based in Chicago with a puppy and she also makes ASMR YouTube videos and TikTok content.
I've worked with Katie in the past on my short film, Political, and you can see her in dozens of independent short films and feature films like the mockumentary Canoe Dig It. Her YouTube channel has over 400,000 subscribers and on TikTok more than 1.5 million followers. She's also incredibly funny, incredibly talented and fun to work with. So a delight. In the episode, Katie and I talk about what it takes to keep going as an actor, especially in independent film when
Auditions can quiet and anxiety creeps in. We also talk about navigating the weird beauty standards of on-camera work, the thrill and terror of dropping into improv classes, as well as how comedy is currently feeding her soul more than dramatic work. So if you're into that, stick around. You can follow Katie on Instagram at Katherine Bellantone, as well as check out her YouTube channel, Katie ASMR at I love Katie ASMR, as well as on TikTok at Katie ASMR.
I'll have all that in the show notes as well as her IMDB, et cetera. So without further ado, please enjoy the lovely and delightful conversation with Katie and myself.
Katie Bellantone (02:11.662)
I have two shorts coming up this summer and just a really low budget like gorilla style kind of feature that I just found out I booked. That'll be fun. But yeah, so I love having multiple things going on at once, especially in the indie world, because it's like you never know how it's going to go. So if one gets a little weird or crazy or doesn't go as planned, you can always think of the other one. you know, I always like having momentum.
Are these two shorts going to production or they're about to be released and is this feature in production down the line?
No, yeah, so I'm going to be shooting them this summer. Yeah. So I have I have some stuff in the works right now that's like already in the can that I'm kind of excited about. have I can think of two shorts off the top of my head that that I'm excited for. Actually, there's another one that's there's like a screening party this next Friday or something. I'm doing a lot of shorts.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's great. I mean, I think it puts it puts you out there. Yeah, I think I've seen I've seen your work like randomly over time, then you auditioned for a political and got it. So it was like, do you keep track of like how many shorts you book in a year? Like, are you a sort of a spreadsheet junkie? Or is it just kind of like, oh, wow, I did, you know, five or 10.
about that. Yeah. No, you know what, I will whenever I'm feeling down on myself after like maybe a couple weeks of auditions and not hearing back hearing crickets and I'm just like, my god, I'm just gonna be like, wait, let's look at this. Let's break down the year, you know, and doing better than I thought because I did because I tend to just like do projects and forget about them and then go right into crisis mode. Like, well, what am I doing with my life? Like, there's nothing. I don't have anything.
Katie Bellantone (03:58.286)
So I will make a little kind of a cheerleader list of projects I've done that I especially ones that I liked went well. People were great, professional.
I relate and my partner has to deal with me sort of complaining a lot and you met Audrey, but it's just like, forget about the things we've done, you know what I mean? Or at least I, like, I, it's like, we don't rest on our laurels, but it's just like weird how, I don't know, it's like the sense of like, you're not doing enough and maybe, maybe it's not so much that for you, but it's like, when you're not sort of booking, it's like, there's like, I'm done for it's, it's over.
Yeah, yeah. Yes, exactly. And then you start spiraling about what the little things like I'm like, like there's this like line under my eyes. You know, I'm 36 now. Like this is it. They're seeing the line and then they're not not castable. It's just like a little psycho stuff like that.
Ha
Mishu Hilmy (04:50.766)
Yeah, like, so you're aware you're kind of commenting on psycho stuff, but like, how do you deal with sort of like the insecurity or the nature of medium being sort of a visual medium? like, you like how do you, yeah, like reframe the impulse to judge yourself or focus on the image?
on like image stuff. Yeah, it's hard as a female. I worry more about that when I'm like getting trying to go for a role like auditioning. Once I have the part and I'm like doing it, I really don't think about how I on camera as in like vanity stuff because I want to do a really good job. And that's like my number one goal is like focusing and like, but so yeah, I guess like the only thing you can do is just focus on your actions and like the character.
And like you just can't, can like, you can spend like forever just trying to like look perfect, you know, but like everyone's doing that. And, you know, that can get boring. And I think about that, like, like until I die, I'll be a real person and I'm an actor playing real people. So there's always a place for whatever I look like in this moment is always like, this is a person, right? We forget sometimes that we're playing people, especially if you like commercial auditions and it's like, yeah, you have look perfect and no friends or whatever.
For like narrative stuff, that's what's so great about it. It's like, you know, sometimes your imperfections are the most interesting things about you. Yeah.
Yeah, I also think it's like maybe a weird narrative that maybe like I think it's an easy narrative to like fixate on like the the your parents or your look or some arbitrary attractiveness scale you might give yourself in any given day or week like, I'm feeling like a four out of 10 or I'm feeling like a nine out of 10. But it's like, I think it's a maybe not a helpful narrative because it's I think it's assuming you know why they didn't choose you. And it was like, purely physical. It could be a whole plethora of reasons, right?
Katie Bellantone (06:41.966)
Yeah, yeah, could be a whole lot of things. It could be your performance, you know?
Ha
But you can't control how you look like you think you can sometimes but like sometimes it's good to let go of control.
but it's still one of those things I imagine, like words can be insidious and just kind of come up as like a default for a song. Like, man, I didn't look that good. I don't feel like I looked that good or looked my best.
I know. Yeah. And at that point where I'm like, do I like start? I going to be like the Botox lady who like gets all the salmon sperm facials and tries to look like I look like a baby seal for the rest of my life or just like just be a person just like especially your woman. It's OK to look your age. That's what I think. It's like it's OK. It's OK. Like it's OK to look your age and look good. You know, we don't have to look young for your age all the time.
Katie Bellantone (07:39.008)
It's not always. Yeah, we're kind of trained always like, you look fine. It's a great thing. It's like, no, I look my age and that's fine. Yeah.
Yeah. think like practicing acceptance is like a real something because yeah, it's like a slippery slope of like, you'll never be enough. Like it'll never...
There'll never be enough. Yeah, yeah, it's never really good enough if you keep chasing that.
Yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing. But it sounds like once you do like usually book it or kind of progress through the audition, you're like, no, I'm just focused on my point of view. And I'm like really committing and being present to the role or the character. So beyond maybe like meditating on the look, what's you know, over the years, what's been your approach in terms of like really developing a point of view or perspective? Because I think what makes you really stand out when I do see your work and even with apoliticals like you went out for two of the roles and got one of them and it was just like your
Yes, yes, definitely.
Mishu Hilmy (08:28.514)
Both of them had really strong auditions. So like, what's been your approach around reading a script or reading sides and seeing like, what's my take? How do I want to embody this?
think it changes her her role is like sometimes sometimes I feel better going into a role coming from the outside in. I think about how how is she physically and then like see what that does for me like embodying a different character physically, even if it's like a posture thing, like how does that inform the way I think about myself and my thoughts and feelings and all that. So sometimes it's going from the outside in and.
Other roles, it could be the opposite. could be like this. This role strikes me really personally and just like really hits home some way. So like I'm going to like go to some place very personally and just like personalize this experience. And then that's going to inform everything else. Yeah. I feel like it's always good to start with yourself, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's like you just have a, especially like with comedy, like you have this idea of this character. Like I am nothing like this character, but.
I'm just going to start doing like rehearsing it like ridiculous and then seeing what that does. They're just like rehearsing, doing the opposite of what you think the character should do. You know.
Yeah. Do you find that you have like a fairly balanced blend of like say comedic roles versus non comedic roles or are you more drawn toward comedic roles recently or over the span of kind of your career? I'm just curious.
Katie Bellantone (09:56.59)
I am more drawn to comedic roles lately. I want more comedic roles. I had a great experience doing a mockumentary in Maine about competitive freestyle canoeing. It was so fun. And I work with some of the best, most funny, funny, funny actors. And I want to do more of that. I feel like it's just like, it's new for me. feel like in Chicago, especially, there's a lot of comedy on stage, a lot of like improv, a lot of sketch, a lot of like,
comedy shows, but there's not a lot of comedy film. Indie filmmakers are doing a lot of dramas, a lot of horror, lot of trauma, trauma, trauma. Visiting those places and playing those characters, it can be rewarding if everybody's respectful, but also can be very draining. so I the freedom to do comedies and just, I don't know, it's just like more being in the moment. I like it more lately. It feeds my
Yeah.
I think there's also like a, like there's not that drama doesn't have its challenges, but I think to use humor to like balancing it out by like pulling the laugh. Cause I think anything without humor is just kind of like melodrama and just like, be, but to like the, the presence required to like tow the line of like pulling the laugh, but also commit to the moment or your characterization can be like a challenge. I think there's also a degree of play versus maybe like self seriousness or self importance that can occur on other types of sets.
I think you're totally right. think that that toeing that line is what keeps you kind of present because you're like in order to do that truth in a truthful, compelling way. Yeah. In order to do that, like a truthful, compelling way, you need to be there with the other, with your same partner completely, you know.
Mishu Hilmy (11:40.594)
Before comedy, have you had to navigate maybe being on set where folks, by the time you're on set, like, the text has been the text for so long, the distrust starts to come in of like, actually change the line. I mean, I'm all for improvising, but for you personally, have you either encountered insecurity of like, I don't know if this is funny anymore, or my performance is funny anymore, or even on the other side, the directors or writers being like, hey, Katie, can you chai a different line? Because we're no longer certain about it.
Yes. my God, I have a lot of doubt and insecurity and mine is a little amplified. I would say I will like pull out, like do something and think, that wasn't funny at all. And like, it ends up being the funniest thing I've done. like, so I wish I had a clear idea of what, what's, what's okay for me. I'm working on that. I'm working on just doing something and just letting it go and not wanting to demanding another take and
stuff like that. I had a director say to do things different ways. yeah, all the time. You just have to work with it, not take it personally.
Did you did you have like a background doing like either a comedy in Chicago or other cities like whether through more formal things like second city or through improvisation or is more just naturally you've come to it as terms of the roles that you've drawn towards in your own sort of.
Yeah, naturally I've come to it. I did theater when I first moved here back in what, God, 2012. had like six or seven years of just doing like small theater productions. Didn't do a lot of comedy, but I would say my first comedic thing was on stage. I worked with Hell in a Handbag Productions and they do really, really funny camp, which features a lot of drag and it's just so funny. I did two productions with them and I was like,
Katie Bellantone (13:26.518)
I love this. so that was kind of my first experience doing comedy. Recently, I've started doing like improv drop in classes at IO. They have those every Friday at like, I think 6pm. And it's like, there's only 25 bucks, you can do like a class for an hour and a half and then you get to see a show for free.
And it's so hard, though. I thought I would go in and be like, great improv. I was like, I'm amazing. I'm so funny. Oh, no. Oh, God. When you're not when I'm not given a script. Oh, it was it was just it was almost like it was amazing. Like how and that's why I want to keep doing it, because I failed so bad, like so bad. Just try really hard to be funny and just like nothing comes because you don't have a script and I want to do and I feel like I got to be right. And you have to listen.
You have to I don't understand how people do improv. You have to listen, but you also like have to you have to like be bold in your choice, you know. So I end up either like listening and being sitting sitting there like a frozen penguin or like completely doing something. Bob, but like it's not it's not based on anything and no one knows. I'm very awkward with it. I'm trying to try to get better.
Because I see those shows and it just makes me realize how amazing improv actors, like good improv actors. Yeah. I don't get it. I don't get it.
Yeah, there's a bit of split brain going on because like when you're improvising, it's like you want to be fully present, nonjudgmental, just like most performance. But then there's also like you're generating, you're creating at the same time and also to a degree at the ensemble level, like directing and editing. So it's like there's a lot, a lot there. mean, I love it. And hearing the that there's drop ins like, maybe I got to check this out because I did like 10 years and it's been it's been a while and maybe I just got the itch as well. But that's that's funny to clock like, oh, this this is hard.
Katie Bellantone (15:15.118)
So hard! So hard! Oh my god.
A lot of these drop-ins or even jams are with people you don't know. So it's like when you're with these rotating groups of people you don't know, everyone has like a different sort of communication level and performance level. And it's very hard to improvise when you're in a state of fear and judgment. it's like when you're in state of fear and judgment, your scenes just start to be like, you're playing a character who hates the other person across from you. And it's
look, you got to clean up the room. The party's about to start. Everyone's going to see that we're not cool. It's like, whoa, this is your subconscious talking about like wanting to be liked versus being present in the scene.
It's so funny how your subconscious like stuff pops up whenever during improv scene where you don't know what to do. It's just like unfunny lines that are just like reflections of how you see the world. And it's like, my God, this is like was just drive by therapy right now. I feel like.
Yeah, it can totally be that way. Well, I'm glad you're exploring that journey. That's fun. It sounds like it's least invigorating and you're seeing it as a tool to use and also get better at.
Katie Bellantone (16:23.5)
Yeah, yeah, get better at and be okay with being bad at it for now. I want to put a lot of pressure on myself to. Yeah.
Yeah
Yeah, it took it took me like five to seven years to like never have a bad show improvising like to just be like so like Teflon of like nothing's even if it's like there's no laughs to just be like I did as best like as I could and I had fun not out of like sort of gratuitousness but it's like to learn to love just the bonkers bat shit bomb of whatever scene you're in and be like all right that scene's done on to the next. Yeah, yeah I moved I moved from.
I didn't know you did a lot of improv.
New York City doing improvisation there to Chicago for all that. I think a lot of lessons around group work and like letting go of the ego. I think that's one of the best creative skills to have of like, you had an idea, someone says the second line and it's nowhere near your idea and to let it go as fast as possible versus being like, look at this fucking idiot.
Katie Bellantone (17:19.147)
Yeah, like how could they ruin my idea for the scene that I had in my head? That's so great.
Are you sort of also balancing stage work or have you pretty much committed these past three, five years to do 90 to 95 % camera work on camera?
I want to do camera work for now. I love it a lot. Stage work is it's just very difficult. Not a lot of pay and a lot of rehearsals. It's I found myself like if I was in a stage show and I did it and we all were we did great. The show was a roaring success. Everyone hit their mark or whatever. I was like, OK, we're done. Why do we have to do this tomorrow? Like we got it. We got it. We did the show, you know, and I feel like there are actors out there that need
need that live interaction or really feed off of it. And I enjoy it and really like it, but I don't necessarily like need it. In fact, sometimes it gives me a little bit of anxiety.
Yeah, there's also a lot of, I've talked to actors who love the fact of the power and control and self-determination of once I hit those boards, it's like, is just me for 90 minutes or it's just me in the scene for 12 minutes. No cuts, there's maybe a bit of a daring there versus I think if that's energy isn't something that's satisfying, it's like, I wanna perform very intensely for 30 seconds to five minutes and then call cut and move on to the next thing.
Katie Bellantone (18:41.868)
Yeah, that's what I like for now. But I want to go back to theater at some point. I want to do a stage show because I feel like it just strengthens a muscle. You know, that's important for performers.
Yeah, I also think like with at least on camera work. There's something nice about like I came up with a point of view I have a perspective and I'm on set like maybe we're lucky we'll have a rehearsal probably we won't and it's just like there's a I think an adrenaline much like being on stage for 90 minutes of like anything Happen there's probably also an adrenaline of like a shoot. Well, we have one day like I I did the audition a month ago and I don't quite remember what what they're looking for So I better like come and commit and do it
Yeah, yeah, I would say when I'm doing a shoot, it's like the first day is the most nerve wracking because you're just like, I don't know, there's like there's this like, like, am I OK? Is this this good? Does this work kind of energy? then like, you know, it does. And if it doesn't, then we talk about it and eventually it will. So definitely on that first the first day of shooting is just like, hey, remember me, too. Is it so good? Is this all working? You know.
Yeah, yeah. I wonder if it's like hard to, because it's like you're part of the equation on set, right? Because there could be a lot going on and I'm sure you've been on like a fair amount of commercials and larger budget things too of like just this one actor who has the questions and the tension of that and then things are like rolling. But like, how do you take care of yourself in those moments where you're like, all right, when are you or do you just like acknowledge that like there might be 15 to 60 minutes of like me feeling tense and anxious and then I'll settle in or do you like have tools or things you do to, know.
alleviate those questions or relax, loosen up.
Katie Bellantone (20:23.756)
I try to really communicate with the director. If I have questions, that makes me feel like if I'm communicating with them with any uncertainty, even if it's like a small thing that like doesn't necessarily, it just feels like we're collaborating together. I'm not like in front of the firing squad, you know, kind of feeling that like I got to get this right, you know, and I can only respond when spoken to or whatever.
Uh, it's just good to like talk to the people behind the camera on the director and just like to, kind of generate that safety for yourself. They'll like, they want you to do well and they, they want to talk to you and it's not, this isn't a test, those kinds of things.
Like for you, what, what's successful for you, like on set versus what doesn't work for you, whether it's like direction style or set styles, like what works and what doesn't work.
I like a place that actors are allowed to just like, like a room, a green room, like a place to like chill. Even if I don't get my own like special like trailer or a private room, I've just been on sets where it's just like, it's in someone's really crowded apartment and there's no place to really just sit and settle down. like, yeah, that does not help my performance that that like gives me anxiety. It just feels like, I don't know. So I just like, I don't like a cramped environment or.
I like actually I like being removed from the set as much as possible until it's time to go and shoot. I don't like to hang out around the set and like be in the same room and just be like, want to I put my stuff kind of thing like for that five doesn't work with me. Let's see. In terms of direction style, I like a director that will trust you. And I think I think it's a work and things that don't work. I don't like working in like if the environment's really cold.
Katie Bellantone (22:14.208)
I get cold easily early. That throws me off. I'm just like, get me out of here. I'm done. And then and then sometimes I get a few occasions, though. I'd be gradually say that that's like helps my sense of urgency in front of the camera. If I'm really cold and just like, let's just do it. Let's just do it right. We're to get done in one one take. Like I am miserable. I hate this here. But also that work like a director that like, you know, they care that they're not like I'm invested, but they but they don't like try to like direct everything out of you like.
that they don't like try to tweak too many micro things.
It makes sense, right? Because like, I think the job is to like hire someone who has a point of view and can become the expert in character. And it's like, if you wanted to pop it, then just like create AI or CGI stuff, and hire actors rather than, you know, I got to your elbows too high, bring it. I mean, some technical stuff, maybe once in a while, but in general, it's like, yeah, don't give line reads.
Mishu Hilmy (23:08.846)
I sometimes when I'm writing I'll be like, you know interior night or exterior night and it's like a snow is falling like no I don't want to I don't want to shoot outside in the snow
There there was some projects that it was shooting like in Evanston and this was going to be like an early March. And it was like the script was unique and funny. And it was like a cat in a cat suit. She was like, but it wasn't like a sexy cat. It was just like I just be wearing a cat suit. And I was just like, I forgot what it was. I was the main character was like a pizza delivery driver. And he was like, he ran into me and I was just like, I had this interaction with him.
fuck off, you know, and there's like actual dialogue. But I said no to it just because it would be outside. It was going to be shooting mostly like in this forest preserve in March. So I know there's no way I'm going to be in it like a cat outfit. I'm going to be such I will not be pleasant to work with. And I don't I don't want to be that woman. I don't want to be that temperature Karen. Yeah.
my gosh. Yeah, I think like I, I, don't mind being on set, but I just like, if I'm going to be on set, it needs to be like not intense and not extreme. So like, I'm very cautious about exterior exterior exteriors writing for exteriors. And it's like, all right, it's got to really serve the aesthetic or the story. And I think it's lazy, like, just like a controlled environment. That's all.
Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (24:39.736)
So like, how have you been balancing also like doing ASMR work with also your camera and acting work?
I'm balancing it a lot better this year. Last year, I kind of busted my ass doing YouTube and day that I put out three videos a week. And these are like 40 to 50 minute videos and I edit them all. And then I spliced them into tick tock content. And it's enjoyable. But it's it's a lot of work. And it was kind of.
I was doing more of that than I was focusing on acting and auditioning. And so this year I'm only putting out two videos a week and I'm just like kind of taking the pressure off myself to be a YouTube rock star this year. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's been such a blessing because it pays all the bills and it's connected me with some great people and I have time to like...
audition and do any shoots that I want to do, can do my make my own schedule. So that's great. It really allows me to act better. But you can also get wrapped up in the views and get wrapped up in checking constantly compulsively. I'm checking my views, checking studios, checking like all my metrics, seeing if they line up to last week. And that is where the bad things come from that, you know.
When you are focusing solely on the metrics, it like shifting your creative energy of like, shoot, this one didn't have like people dropped within the first three or 30 seconds. You know, what's the matter with that? Or did I not title it? Well, like, how how does that sort of manifest in like either, you know, unhelpful reactions or sort of behaviors to, you know, shift like when you are just really looking at the metrics? Yeah.
Katie Bellantone (26:26.382)
Yeah, so I guess when I'm just looking at views and comparing them to what I did last week or last year, this video, people weren't watching them watching as much. just, it just makes me feel negative. And I forget the fact that like my channel, I'm so blessed that it's doing as well as it is and that people are watching every video. So when you do an audition, you know, you either get the part or you don't, you don't like get something from it.
When you do a video and it doesn't do well, you still make money from it. And there are still people that love it and enjoy it and comment how much they love it. You still have your core audience. Maybe it's not like, you know, going to grow your audience. Maybe it's not going to grow viral, but it's it's still you didn't make it for nothing. You're still helping people.
Like two to three videos a week, like I think that's that's like a lot. Or that's my judgment. My judgment is like that's like that's a lot. It's It's a lot. Like what's your approach like conceptualizing these, you know, 30 to 60 minute ASMR pieces? Like where is your sort of point of view, your perspective? Like what's sort of start to finish the approach if you don't mind me asking to do things that are either solo versus say a collab?
I always collab. I do some POVs. Usually I collab with either other YouTubers or I will hire actor models be in my videos for me. And I will just look. have like a few rotating scenarios that usually do well. And that's medical, Reiki, TSA, which is my favorite to do. And I'll say Reiki medical TSA, like chiropractic massage.
There some others, but there's just like a rotation of like five or six, like different styles that I do. And I will like vary the way I do it. So sometimes I'll do in a fast and aggressive, raky videos where I'm just like sweeping energy away from you very quickly. Sometimes I'll do it like very slowly. And so I'll just see like, what have I posted last week and how can I make this week different enough to where I'm not just doing the same thing all the time, but the same enough that I'm staying faithful to my audience and
Katie Bellantone (28:34.892)
that the algorithms won't hate me.
Like, you have like a strong outline or, you know, is most of it improvisational? Do you have like, you know, your sort of your tools, your sound makers, your accoutrement, your props, and like, you know, like, right, within, you know, 10 minutes, I'll try and pick this up. Like, I'm curious around the scripting or the outlining and working with like, say an actor who might not have worked with you in the past.
Mm I used to write outlines for every video and like right now I'm going to do this mess and this. But I've been doing them for so long. I've been doing so many of them that at this point, sometimes if I'm trying something totally new, I'll write it out to keep a paper to the side. But now I'll just set out tools. It's important to just prepare really, really well before the model comes over and just all the tools that you're going to use and just and then you can kind of improv and have fun and see what comes up.
But that's just because I've been doing it for so long and I use Rode mics Rode Pro. They're like pretty pretty good And just it just takes a lot of setup time It just takes a lot of time a lot more time than it looks like yeah
I'm sure of it to sort of get your space set up in the mics kind of in an appropriate position like do a lot of your models actors have experience in the world of ASMR like and what's the difference between say hiring someone who does have experience or who
Katie Bellantone (29:57.39)
Yeah, some do some really like ASMR and a lot of them don't. And so I have to really prepare them in advance and let them know, you know, speak in a soft, open voice. And it's going to seem really boring. That's because, you know, it's, it's going to be kind of awkward. There's going to be a lot of moments in between where I'm just like, taking like a little camera and popping you on the hedge with it. Just close your eyes and just trust me, it works.
Because it is weird. I started out being on someone else's channel and I'm just like, what is this? You know, but yeah.
Yeah. And like, would it like, I'm just like throwing out random numbers, for example, would it be like a three hour session, and then you edit it down to like 40 minutes? Or I'm just curious, like what what it takes like when you're actually like live recording, and then kind of the post production part of it.
Yeah, so I'll have the bottle come over for five hours. I'll just give them that time frame in that time frame. I want to make sure to get three videos every once in a while. That doesn't happen. Right. Like last week, I just got I was on an antibiotic and I just like randomly got really sick in the middle of the session. So she had to go home. But usually we get three videos and there are maybe an hour each and the time in between is all set up time.
And then editing a video. know a lot of creators that hire editors and not quite ready to do that. I guess I could. I'm not ready. Maybe that's a control thing. I'm not ready to just. I don't know. But editing takes forever because I have creepy four boards. Most of it I do it at my home and I have to edit out the creeks and all that stuff. It's very it's tedious. I have to say, like I enjoy filming a lot more than I do editing.
Mishu Hilmy (31:42.702)
Yeah, I relate to you even with a podcast of like, I think it's a mix of like a cost and a trust thing, but I think mostly for me, it's like the cost thing of like, I don't wanna drop X amount of money on this editor and they work on it for like a week or however long and then they send it to me. mean, naturally, hopefully there's like revisions and you're sort of talking through, but the cost of like, is it worth the cost of having these conversations and then getting a 70 %?
a C plus or a C minus, but I think it's still worth the risk, you know.
And here's what I think. I think that it's worth it when you find an editor you trust and you have to have you have to allow some onboarding time for them to like to edit a few videos and not to be perfect. You have to listen to them and give them feedback. You know, this is what I differently or this is what then you have to just like
Yeah.
Katie Bellantone (32:32.718)
that that relationship will develop and then at the end of maybe a few weeks of just like, you know, here's what you need to do differently or whatever, then it's smooth sailing. I would love to edit my videos.
I mean, I would love that for you. Yeah, it's like it's like one of those it's it's just time right like where it's like to be precious with time and if it's just I know like I think a lot about scheduling to like do you find that I'm like consistently telling myself like if I'm only just like I just gotta be like two weeks ahead if I'm just like two weeks ahead of like the content mill or the creation mill or yeah I'll be I'll be all right but are you like are you pretty scheduled out or do you find that sometimes you're feeling the pressure of like
Shoot, I need to drop something for next week. So you're kind of like scheduling it, hiring it, then like editing till midnight or one in the morning.
Yes, most of the time I kind of I kind of fly by the seat of my pants. So I was filming with another YouTuber in Rogers Park yesterday and she wanted to move it to Thursday and I was like, no, I am out of videos. I have nothing to post for tomorrow. We got to do it today. Like, no. And so so most of the time it's that kind of thing. I have a shoot one of the shorts I'm doing at the end of next week is like.
really heavy material and I just want to not have to worry about ASMR next week. So I'm doing extra stuff this week. I'm filming with another model on Friday so I can just like have a week of not that. And same goes for like traveling. I'm going on vacation or a shoot I try to like or like Christmas vacation, I'll like cram a bunch of filming sessions and just like have a bank of videos. But I'm still editing and all that.
Mishu Hilmy (34:13.55)
I think that's honestly for me, like what makes it so hard is like the scheduling and the releasing. Cause it's like, want to experiment and try something and like, maybe hiring an editor would be helpful. But then it's like, where does that fit in within the timeline and the workflow? And then also like, okay, what are they editing on? Are they doing premiere? And then it's, it's all can be solved figured out. But if I have like four days to release something, I'm not, I'm not in the best head space to be like, all right, you do a pass on this, you know?
No.
Yeah, yeah, right. feel like, yeah, especially if we're always like running against the clock, it's hard to like stop and re-figure things and re-think like, how do I structure this all differently?
I think your point of view isn't sir, scrubbing through a timeline and finding the little waveform that looks like a floor. That's probably not the best way to scrub.
man. So I still edit on iMovie and I can't even see the way I edit on my phone. Like I need to get like a different program that'll let me see like the.
Mishu Hilmy (35:14.382)
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I do a lot of editing on Premiere. I'm not familiar. Like there might be AI components where if it doesn't exist yet, it probably will exist where you can like find the sound and like copy a print of the sound and say, find all these instances and get rid of it. think that maybe.
the
So yeah, like so you got sort of the production process the post production process and then like the releasing like when you drop it say, you know twice a week or thrice a week What's you know, are you like how do you deal with the pressure or the or the anxiety of like I just released this and now I'm going to hit refresh every three minutes Like are you all right at that? Or sometimes not. Yeah
I'll do that. The only thing that scares that for me is having something to do like at two o'clock. So usually I put up my videos at one thirty or two p.m. And so if I like I go on a run a lot of times, I love running. I'll go on a long run and just like then you can't. Then you have to look at what's in front of you. You're running. Or if I happen to have like some social thing to go to or just some activity that I just I'm not going to look at my phone. Yeah, that's.
That's good. It's always good when the video does well, then you can refresh and just feel that dopamine high surge through your veins. You're like, yes, I'm a winner. And then the next day is a catastrophe because no one's watching. So it's just like, I don't know, we're all mentally ill because of algorithms.
Mishu Hilmy (36:48.776)
totally. Like how how how do you relate to sort of like or what's the vision, I guess, like because I think with things like YouTube, there's easy it's easy to be like more, more grow more. And like, what's your vision? Like, how do you deal with like what your goal is for the channel versus like, I just need to hack this. So it's like exponential growth.
Yeah, when I working for someone else, I would always do like, you know, the bare minimum. But when it's for me and my channel, it's like there's you never really off the clock. It's amazing because you make your own gear free, but you're also you're free. You know, it's like you can you can grow as much as you want. And there's always that nagging thing that I have in the back of my mind that says, all right, I need to do this more. I need to I need to invest in this, this and this. I need to get a better camera. need to do this and this. And and then
Like I'm wasting this potential, I could be growing more and more and more. But yes, it's important to improve. But that can be a slippery slope in your brain. Like I'm like, I'm trying to look at what I am doing right. And yeah, you know what I'm doing that's working. A lot of things that I'm doing is working, you know, to think that way. And yeah.
Because then it kind of becomes honestly no different than a toxic day job. Maybe I'm being sort of too too broad, but it's like if you are starting to behave in a way that's not creatively within your integrity and it's like, well, I need I need to get a million by the end of the year or whatever the thing is and you start doing like weird shit that you like hate doing, then it's like, why do even have a channel? Yeah.
Why exactly? Yeah. And I realized that just like if our goal in life is to just be happy, be fulfilled, be happy. Yeah. There is a certain amount of money that will aid in that. And then after this certain amount, this is not going to you happier, you know, at least for me. Like there is this and I and last year I overachieved that amount and I'm so grateful. But I'm like, how do I regain a little bit of sanity and.
Katie Bellantone (38:50.038)
not work so hard at it and make the stuff that I do put out good and not be constantly just creating content all the time. Yeah, just like get back to spending more of my time doing other creative things.
And do you find that like at least this because it seems like you're speaking like last year was a bit much, but this year is it like a little bit more balanced that you have maybe a more of a routine and it's like not as intense. I'm still it's like, you know, a full probably full time job. I imagine like any business owner, you're feeling the anxiety when you're like lying in bed, but is at least a little bit more.
Yeah, this year is more balanced this year. just like last year was I just like did really well and it was a lot to process and I was just constantly feeling like the grind to do more to keep up with the other YouTubers that are doing better than me. and I that that did not make me happy. Like making my own content, making my videos, getting to meet the people I film with and like and interacting with my audience. That makes me happy.
constantly feeling like I need to do more. That can just become an addiction.
Yeah, yeah. Because like, was the growth experience for you like? Was it like pretty quick? Or was it maybe a few months or a few years of like just quietly gaining steam and then you know, suddenly?
Katie Bellantone (40:07.854)
Oh, I was so lucky. I met a YouTuber named Mad P and I was on her channel and her audience was already super high and they just like, oh, we like Katie. And then it was actually after kind of a sour experience doing like an indie over one summer that I was just like, and I kept saying, I'm not going to start my own YouTube channel. Like, no, no. And I was just like, you know, fuck it. You know, no, I'm going to start my own channel. I'm going to fuck like who cares? I didn't care. Like I was I was kind of in like a
different headspace to where I wasn't like thinking, it couldn't possibly be me. couldn't do, know, just, I'm just gonna do it. just gonna, you know, and I had a cheap microphone and I started and the growth was really high because of my connection to Mad P. So she like shouted me out on her channel and supported me, taught me how to like,
make a quality video. And I like my whole life changed. Like I went from, I was on Medicaid. had no money ever. never had money. Like I was poor. I wasn't just like kind of poor. was poor as shit. And, uh, and so like, that's been a lot to process to like go from that to doing like quite well.
It's like it's like a blessing. then I think it's because it's so tied to today. Like, like today, like, are you getting the listeners and views today? Like, I imagine you probably have to deal with, the fear of, you know, when will this sort of fade or evolve or will I lose my audience or will they grow out? So it's like the reaction is like, do I become more extreme and like, try and chase trends? Or do you just like commit to like, hey, I'm just going to do the things I like and try to be the best I can at what I do every week. Not that they're binary, but like, how do you deal with like,
the fear of it's just really out of your control, right? Like the ad ad partner.
Katie Bellantone (41:56.334)
Yeah. I think it's out of my control. Um, I know that like everything runs this course and you know, like there'll be a time when I'm not doing this, guess. But gosh, right now it's going well. I like, I sometimes I chase trends. I'll look, look and see what's doing well now and kind of try to emulate that, but I can't live in that fear space. Right. Yeah. Cause you know,
I never even anticipated this. was just like, kind of like came out of nowhere. So I feel like I'm still processing it and one day it'll be gone and I'll still be me just like I was before. Like I was just a full-time actor, you know, and like, I guess I'll do that again. Yeah, this will be poor again. no. I don't want to.
You got the muscle memory, got the muscle memory, it all comes back. I'm curious, are there skills from say acting that have really paid off in ASMR work and vice versa? Are there sort of skills in ASMR work that you've sort of wittingly or unwittingly deployed while you're building a character or performing on set?
Um, gosh, I'd say acting has helped sometimes in ASMR videos, especially like freedom to like do something quirky, like fast and aggressive videos where you're just like speaking little comments and trying to think though, no, like, but like in ASMR, should see my earliest medical videos, like I was I'm the most awkward doctor. And I feel that way in acting too. Like, I am usually not cast as like a white collar, like
professional that just like I just I'm not that I'm like a detective or we'll see and I love to those kind of characters but they're usually not the ones that I feel comfortable and I usually just feel like I don't know I just feel like I'm in front of a firing spot or something I'm just very technical and I just get very I just get very like stiff I guess when I try to play a doctor I can't just play the doctors are all they're all they all have they're all neurologically diverse or whatever but not intentionally
Katie Bellantone (43:57.774)
My ASMR doctor videos, at least my early ones, are very awkward. I've achieved some warmth throughout the years and now I'm bit of a warmer doctor and not so... don't know, I'm so frozen and terrified the whole time. So maybe that'll help. Maybe that'll help one day. Maybe I'll be on Chicago Med and I'll play like a nurse or a doctor and that will help, I guess.
I guess I like deep down thought that doctors like aren't real people that they're all aliens. Like maybe that was my like deep down. That's judgment on doctors. So I just play them like like aliens.
Yeah, yeah. mean, we mostly mostly encountered doctors, you know, when we were very young. So that's like a very formidable age to just like, this person is poking me and inspecting me. They they're there.
No, no, no, the hell
Do like sponsors or stuff like that? Or is it predominantly just the ad revenue? Or do you like, you know, partner with folks and do like a 30 second or a minute roll every other video or once a month? Yeah.
Katie Bellantone (44:59.564)
Yeah, I've done some sponsorships, not so much this year, but last year I did a sponsorship for a perfume company based in New York called Stentbird. It's like a perfume subscription company. I did one with a jewelry company called Anna Luisa Jewelry. did two sponsorships with them and I loved it because I got free jewelry in the mail and they were really, really pretty. And then I have one coming up that's for like a light projector. Like it projects like the galaxy or like the constellations onto your.
ceiling and I'm excited to get that. Yeah, so I've gotten a few.
Do you seek them out? are you part of an agency where I know there's these different things that can link YouTubers with brands? is it mostly passive, where someone might reach out to you? Is that part of your business model, where once a month you might do some lead generation or not so much?
I should do that. That's so, that's such a smart idea. Usually I have people reach out to me on, in my like ASMR email and I weed through most of it's like spam or sketchy, but sometimes if it looks legit and they're offering a rate and they like, it's, have to check like the email address, like URL or whatever. And I forward it to an agent that I have that's like for influencers and she will make a deal with them. And so I,
usually go through a third party through her, you know, just to make sure because you're sending out your address, you know, for them to ship you things and it's always like, know, yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (46:26.018)
I guess for sort of career wise, like, I think acting is such a, you know, can be a very vulnerable and expressive medium and same with us. So like we talked about it maybe last year around like ASMR having its own sort of biases. So like, how do you navigate like the vulnerability of like playing a role, you know, that might be a little bit out there. I think ASMR has this kind of niche, you know, projections or thoughts on it and like some different roles. Like what, what's your take on like the per-
The performance is kind of displaying a different part of you and like just dealing with that. Maybe it's my own thoughts, like discomfort or awkwardness of like what people might think of you as a performer, an actor, an ASMRtist. I think, yeah, in both, do you notice is there a similarity or a difference between like how you, you know, feel or speak about it with folks or the, you know, the judgments around, you know, acting versus ASMR?
I'm so you mean in film or yes
Katie Bellantone (47:19.342)
Well, let's see. So you're talking about not the vulnerability in like performing a role, but just not the way people perceive that.
I think so because like you can play very vulnerable roles and weird bizarre roles as an actor but then you like there might be that dealing with the perception at the audience level like all right the credits are rolling and now you're sitting next to your family and your friends you know
Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm I've done I did a short last year called Terminal Emulator. And there is like, I'm doing this, there's all kinds of there's this strap on sex on my end to another character. And then there's like, there's this brilliant stop motion animation sequence with this like
giant reindeer from hell and he has this bloody cock and he's like, squeeze the blood out of it. It's all stop motion. It's the most disturbing shit. I'm like, I'm not going to send that to my family. And so stuff like that, I don't know, like I'm not dating right now, but when I was dating, I would have partners that really judge me for doing stuff like that or anything with nudity. Right. And that's always hard. That's always hard when they don't understand it.
Cause like I'm the most loyal, faithful, you know, person ever if I am in a relationship. But yeah, that's hard. That's that can almost be a deal breaker to be honest. Yeah. Cause there's like a level of trust that should be there with ASMR. You know, like I think I've just been on a couple of hinge dates where guys are like, that's a fetish thing, right?
Mishu Hilmy (48:45.656)
Yeah.
Katie Bellantone (49:00.43)
That's like totally sex thing. I know there's always, yeah, I mean, there's always going to be anything on the internet can be a fetish thing. Everything is like, like so you can fetishize anything that I do. as long as I'm like, I can't make, you know, money off of AdSense if I'm doing sex videos. Like there's rules that you have to follow. And apparently I follow them enough to where like anyone could watch them. yeah. But those conversations made me feel vulnerable and weird because
Yeah.
know what to say to that you know like yeah okay no and yes and i don't know that's not my problem
Yeah
Yeah, it's not to do a degree. It's not your responsibility, right? Because like at the level of like creating something and you know choosing to express yourself like the joy is like doing things that are creatively demanding or Risky or exciting like to be part of a project where you read the shorts the the script and it involves like, you know Reindeer's and like, you know fuck elements and like I've never done this before. I'm I'm excited to see like
Mishu Hilmy (49:59.564)
What's the site going to be like? What's my take? And then to book the gig, you know, that's like a pure creative expression. And then like, yeah, I think whether people get it or not, like, all right, that's out of my hands.
Yeah, yeah. And that was that was done so well. Like that filming was done so well. The DP was so good. It was done in such a high quality way that I was just like, I read it and I was like, my God, let's do this. Like, yes, that's yes. So you have to think about, know, what are you what's going to fulfill you as opposed to how people are to perceive you? Because we're like living in an era where everyone's always being perceived. And it's like you cannot please everyone. Right.
Thank you, Karen.
Yeah. And like when it comes to that, or at least I'm thinking of like risk and subversion, like how actively or mindfully of you are you in terms of like going for roles when it comes to like, want to make sure I'm taking risks or I'm taking swings or I'm trying to subvert expectations. Like where does the world of like, you know, risk or subversion come into play when you're, you know, auditioning or performing? Like where does that live in terms of your creative thought process?
of like taking a role to an unexpected place.
Mishu Hilmy (51:08.302)
Yeah, I'm just like how much of your approach is, are you consciously thinking of like, take a swing or take a risk or, you know, push myself out of my comfort zone? Like what what proportion of that are you mindfully pursuing?
love auditions and roles that do that and push me out of my comfort zone. And I think that I naturally know that audition is going to do that when I just start to, I can't stop working on it. I'll get the script and I'll get the sides and I'll just be like, can't stop. Cause it's so exciting to me and it's so like, this is new. Like, Ooh.
And I kind of just turn into a dog with a bone. And then there are some, there's just like, there's not, there's only so much I can do with this material. So let's just, you know, get it out, do my best. But I think that's a good point to me because I would like to work on taking risks, even if the material says to do something, maybe do the opposite. I want to, you know what, that's going to be a goal of mine. I want to do riskier auditions.
I think I pitch, I mean, that's what stood out for like the work I've seen you done is just like the sort of the daring, the presence of like, you're just going for it. You're giving me, you're giving us like a perspective versus like, when I think about my acting career, it was like, you know, seven to 10 years of like,
never taking a swing, just doing like the minimalist, like, I just got to be a good, I got to follow the directions. I got to be still, can't be too big for the camera. And what, what kind of role is this? They want a cheeky bartender. All right. I better give them a cheeky bartender versus like looking at the text or the size of the scenario and go, no, I don't think this is, this dialogue isn't cheeky. This dialogue is kind of creepy. So why don't I just like go full hog creepy, you know?
Katie Bellantone (52:42.382)
Go full hog creepy, always. I think whenever you have opportunity to go full hog creepy, you should. I think that's never a wrong choice. That's my opinion. Yeah. I think that's so true. I think when I started film, I was very much like kind of how you just described. So focused on being like minimalist and like letting having being truthful get in the way of being.
doing anything, you know. And I think like that's that's why I don't know if my there would work for me. I just kind of dabbled in my recently and I'm just like, I'm just going to sit there and just because like if we're really saying how we feel, I feel so empty most of the time throughout the day. I feel nothing, nothing going on. like I will spurts of like, you know, so I don't know, yeah, sometimes you just have to like fuck the whole
Yes, yeah, yeah
Katie Bellantone (53:42.254)
truthful and you know thing and just like do something fun or do something different. I don't know.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're sort of preaching to the choir. I agree. think the mystery is a byproduct that I shouldn't try to attain. The mystery just happens to be present and sort of have a metaphysical, galactic, emotional experience while performing or while creating. That's out of my hands. And I think sometimes the obsession with mystery, truth is too hard to pin down to be present in the moment. think truth in comedy is one of the worst phrases ever. I think
Seeking truth in the moment as an actor is like or in an audition like what that if you can do I don't think anyone could if you sit someone down and say hey define truth to me No one can do it. So if you can't define what truth is like you're not gonna bring it to the audition So like recognition, maybe better as a better thing like do something recognizable, but also you can do something recognizable That's so out of the wheelhouse of a perspective that makes it fresh and daring versus truth
Yes. And that really hits with me because yeah, just like most of the time in an audition, like true to the moment, like what is the moment like what I'm oh, and also like, and I know I just this is like, I think in circles, like, because 30 days ago, I was just talking about being present. But like, you're always in the moment. We're never not in the moment. We're always here. And yeah, and also another term I don't like is
natural, like natural, natural. like, Oh, God, I because I tried so hard when I was beginning to do film to be natural. I just like, it was all just like, you know.
Mishu Hilmy (55:15.342)
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I hear that. relate to it. Yeah. think film on camera is very it's hard for style to kind of come out. I just think like we're not as susceptible to style as say like stage work. But I think be natural. I mean, that's an Alice Guy Blache line from the nineteen hundreds be natural, which I respect the line. And also she was like the first one of the first directors to exist for film. But yeah, I think being natural is tough, tough sort of.
expand out of. And then I think we're a little bit over. So I just have one last question or just around motivation, like given sort of how uncertain and volatile a the entertainment industry and be the tech YouTube industry is like how, do you stay connected? How do you stay motivated given the uncertainties?
It's hard to stay motivated when you have a round of auditions that you're not hearing anything back from. But you just have to constantly try to find the fun in it and find the freedom in it. Because honestly, like, I think I'm an actor because there are parts of me that I can only feel free when presenting as another character in this contained world or whatever. And so just remembering the why and just remembering what power that you do have. Like, there's a lot of power that you don't have.
But there's a lot of power that you do have. You have a lot of personal power. They need you. Actors are needed. They're valuable. Each one of us is valuable. Yeah, just keep doing, trying different things and taking risks. And I don't know, that's all I got right now.
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, Katie is so nice getting
Katie Bellantone (56:41.806)
the chat. Great to chat with you.
Mishu Hilmy (56:50.35)
Before sending you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed the show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little mischief motivation. There's a little prompt to reel yourself in, a little bit of cognitive reframing.
So this one's for you. If you're feeling self doubt after an audition or putting a project out there or anything that might be inspiring some self doubt, write down three things you've done this year that made you feel proud, curious, alive, grateful, inspired, even if you forgot them until now. I think we're all really good at forgetting all the nourishing things we do throughout a year and just remember what we need to do and what isn't enough. So write those three things down and celebrate.
the things you've done. There you go. All right, have a great day and I'll see you next time.