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The Harvester Podcast is brought to you by the Florida School of Preaching. Listen weekly to take a dive into biblical topics and thoughtful studies on things that matter to our eternal souls.
Welcome to the Harvester Podcast.
This is season three, episode four, and we are studying the subject of apologetics and we
are having a great season so far.
I am Brian Kenyon and with me are
Steven Ford.
George Beals.
And Forrest Antemesaris is usually with us on these podcasts, but he is unable to be here
today.
And so hopefully he will join us the next time.
But we are talking about this season, Lessons on Christian Apologetics.
Episodes 1 and 2 were Part 1 and 2 respectively of Introduction to Christian Apologetics.
In Episode 3, we began to discuss the existence of God, and we've looked at the design
argument, Part 1.
And so in episode four today, we are going to continue our discussion of the design
argument.
So we're calling this The Existence of God, The Design Argument, part two.
And George is going to bring us up to speed as to where we left off from the last episode
till now.
So let's take a look of where we are logically.
We pointed out that if you were to boil the entire Bible down into a single statement, it
would be something like, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that to be saved one must
believe in, love, and obey Him.
As a matter of fact, any Bible teaching, call it X, is the conclusion of an
a logical argument that we could express.
would be something like this.
Since God exists and the Bible is His Word and the Bible teaches X, then X must be true.
And we want to take each of the elements of that argument up one at a time in order and as
we ultimately conclude that uh what the Bible teaches is true.
So where are we logically then in this particular series?
In this lesson?
We are at the stage of demonstrating the first piece of evidence in this overall argument,
namely that God exists.
And after we do that, in a subsequent lesson, we'll look at evidence showing that the
Bible is the word of God.
But right now, we're still talking about the existence of God.
We've given some evidence already in the design argument.
We pointed out that the...
design argument and the cosmological argument and the moral argument, what we'll be
looking at in support of the conclusion that God exists.
And we did talk about the design argument to begin with last time.
And as we were discussing that, we called attention to Hebrews chapter three, verses three
to four, which is relevant to the design argument and shows that we are following the
biblical process.
of establishing the existence of God.
That passage in verse 3 reads, who built the house has more honor than the house.
And why is that?
Well, in this particular reference we have a reference to the Christ, and Christ is here
regarded as the builder and furniture of the whole house of Israel, of which Moses himself
was but a member.
And so then we have the truth affirmed.
He who built the house has more honor than the house Christ is more honor than then just
the house of Israel and then verse 4 Every house is built by someone that we mean that
word built means to build or furnish with a purpose And so then a house does not build
itself Excuse me a dwelling place built with purpose implies an ultimate intelligent cause
And then verse 4 of Hebrews chapter 3 also continues, He who built all things is God.
And that is, objects with built-in means and end imply that God exists, is the affirmation
of that passage.
And then last time we proceeded into the design argument itself and I asked the question,
which of the following objects would you say are man-made and which are objects of the
natural world?
And we itemized the house, a house, a toothbrush, an acorn, a clock, a flower, a dog, and
the human eye.
And obviously the house, the toothbrush, and the clock are manmade.
And then we raised the question, well, what is it about those that you say are manmade
that convinces you that indeed they are manmade?
And it came down to this.
Number one, you know that humans have made such things, but not just that.
Also, a particular fact regarding the nature of those objects.
Precisely put, if an object has components that work together to accomplish an
identifiable purpose, then that implies design.
And if you have got, if you have designed, then they had to have been a designer and
intelligence who
both exists and has attributes at least equal to the task of causing such an object.
So we conclude that the house, the toothbrush, and the clock had an intelligent cause, not
a non-intelligent cause, and this is because, one, we know that humans have made such
objects, plus, two, each is an object that has components that work together to bring
about an identifiable end, a purpose.
Now here's the key.
On the same basis, absent the human factor, we may conclude that the eye, the acorn, the
dog, and the flower also had an ultimate intelligent cause.
They all had an intelligent cause, or as the Bible puts it in Hebrews chapter 3 verse 4,
for every house is built by someone, but he who built all things is God.
Note that term build with purpose.
And so that brought us to the design argument.
And the design argument can be pictured like this if you were to draw this out in a
graphic.
Way over on the left-hand side, identify that as uh A and let that represent an object
that has parts that work together, and that's the means to accomplish a useful and
identifiable purpose.
That's the end.
Call all of that A.
That implies B, design, and if you've got design, call the next one C, namely a designer
who exists and had attributes.
So that would be the design argument expressed graphically, but put into words, precisely
expressed, the design argument would be this.
If A, that is an object that has such components that bring about that purpose,
Then you have to have B, a design.
If you've got B, a design, then they had to be in a designer or a maker.
Call that C.
Premise number three, there does exist A's in this natural world.
That is, there are objects that exhibit parts that work together to accomplish an
identifiable purpose, but they're not manmade.
And therefore, we have design.
and therefore we have a designer, namely God.
And so then the exercise here is going to be in this lesson, is there at least one A in
all of reality?
And what are the candidates for this?
What are the candidates for finding an object in this natural world, not man-made, that
have parts that work together to accomplish an identifiable purpose?
We've got a long range here to work with.
We go all the way from the micro world to the macro world.
And the candidates for A then are within that range.
And there are quite a few.
And look around and even look inward.
The magnificence from the incredible tininess in the micro world to the equally incredible
enormity in the macro world is seen in terms of the
quantity of objects in existence and their attributes, secondly the range of their sizes,
and thirdly their precision.
And that summarizes where we were last time, leading us into a search now for an A, for an
A, that is this is the pursuit of the design argument for God.
And today's class we will continue this search.
Maybe some of you brethren have some further thoughts there.
before we actually get into the details on finding candidates for A.
Well, all you have to do is open your window and look out and you will see numerous
candidates for A.
From the bird that flies to the grass that grows to the tree that produces fruit.
Just endless almost.
is the wonderfulness that we have the privilege of examining and using the minds that the
Lord has given us and from such evidence draw the inevitable conclusion that therefore a
creator does exist.
First then the quantity of objects and their attributes.
Astronomer Phil Slate in a 2024 Scientific American article
gives rationale for estimating the number of individual stars, for example, in the
observable universe and he comes up with 20 million trillion.
This is two times 10 to the 19th power.
And one of those specs, for example, Andromeda, also known as M31, is so far away it looks
like one, just one fuzzy star.
but it actually is itself a galaxy of billions of stars.
It is so far away that it looks like a single speck in the sky.
And for comparison, Slate estimates that number of grains of sand on the Earth is four
times ten to the twentieth power.
And even smaller are atoms.
One theoretical physicist explains that every material in the
everything material in the universe, whether living or not, is made of atoms and it is
estimated that the number of atoms in the observable universe is between 10 to the 78th
power to 10 to the 82nd power.
Further, atoms themselves are made up of smaller objects, protons and neutrons and
electrons and some would point out to what are called quarks.
atoms make up cells in an organism that's living matter, organism is means living matter,
a 2023 study estimates that the body of one average human male has approximately 36
trillion cells.
Also, it is estimated that there are about 10 trillion, that's 10 to the 13th power,
microorganisms that live on or inside just the human body.
That's the quantity.
Now the second attribute or the second factor I should say that we take into consideration
as we search for an A out there in the natural world is the size range of objects.
Minute to huge.
For example, scientists tell us that the radius of an electron is between 10 to the minus
18 meter to 10 to the minus 22nd meter.
and its mass is nine times ten to the minus thirty kilogram that is to say these minus
numbers in the exponent of these numbers take one and then divide it by ten to the minus
eighteen ten to the minus twenty second meter that tells you the size of the radius of an
electron and its weight is nine is one over nine times ten to the thirty first that's uh
nine with thirty one zeros after
of a kilogram.
Compare this tininess of the micro world to the staggering immensity of the macro world.
The size range then.
In the macro world light years are used as a measure of distance.
One light year is the distance light travels in a year at 186 miles per second.
So the distance of one light year is 186,000 times 60 for one minute, times 60 for one
hour, times 24 for one day, times 365 for one year.
This is about six trillion miles, about nine trillion meters.
Then we must multiply this number by billions to find the distances that according to
astronomers some
of the shimmering specks in the sky are from us here on earth.
And then the third factor as we look for candidates of A is the precision of all of this.
Consider the whole thing, that the whole thing works.
One person said, the fact that the universe works argues for the existence of God.
The whole thing works.
It's not chaos, but as the Greeks called it, cosmos.
Cosmos meaning an orderly world.
Further, whole thing is fine-tuned.
And for our information, theists sometimes formulate the fine-tuning data we now reference
into another argument for God.
This is called variously the fine-tuning argument, abbreviated FTA, or the anthropic
argument for God.
So, precision.
Notice the regularity in the universe, allowing for predictability.
and its fine-tuning allowing for life on Earth, in other words, just right precision.
In a well-known 1982 article, astronomer Fred Hoyle writes, quote, a common sense
interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with the physics
as well as chemistry and biology and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about
in nature.
Astrophysicist Hugh Ross writes, quote, on whatever volume scale researchers make their
observations, the universe, galaxy cluster, galaxy, planetary system, planet, planetary
surface, cell, atom, fundamental particle or string, the evidence for extreme fine tuning
for life's sake, and in particular for humanity's benefit, persists.
Ross calculates that there are 402 finely tuned characteristics met in this galaxy that
are necessary for life with footnotes documenting the relevant scientific literature.
Another astrophysicist Martin J.
Reese observes, quote, mathematical laws underpin the fabric of our universe.
not just atoms but galaxies, stars and people.
So we can describe all of this in terms of mathematics.
Reese focuses on six such numbers and writes, these six numbers constitute a recipe for a
universe.
Moreover, the outcome is sensitive to their values.
If any one of them were to be untuned, there would be no stars and no life.
Philosopher Robert Collins says that the most impressive is the initial distribution of
mass energy
to give the low entropy we have throughout the universe.
This is necessary for life, he explains.
It is fine-tuned to the incredible one to the 10th to the 10th to the 123rd power.
This is found in Robin Collins, Dr.
Robin Collins versus Dr.
Peter Milligan, fine-tuning of the universe.
Philosopher and atheist or agnostic,
Peter Millikan remarked, quote, the fine tuning argument is based on some apparent
coincidences in physics that are genuinely intriguing.
Now this is an atheist or an agnostic speaking.
He says, I concede this much to it.
If there is a physically inexplicable coincidence of the fundamental constants of nature,
whose values have to be precisely tuned within a wide range
of otherwise available possibilities to make a complex universe possible, then this very
naturally invites explanation in terms of a cosmic scale designer." That from an atheist,
agnostic.
So there are quite a few candidates for A in this natural world.
Finding just one implies
design and thus a designer.
It's so amazing that the, you talked about the micro and the macro world.
think the, and both are incredible, no doubt, but the micro world is so amazing because I
think that people are fascinated by, you find those people that can build a little ship
inside of a bottle and it's amazing because you have this small little thing built through
this little, you know, opening in the bottle and that's kind of fascinating to so many
people.
Excuse me.
But then if you have the fact that you have a person and then you have organs inside the
body and then you have cells and then you have even smaller.
So if you have these things that a person cannot create that possess, like with DNA
there's actual information.
So you have something that is so tiny that you cannot see it with your naked eye.
You cannot touch it precisely just one of them with your fingers.
Who then is capable of creating
such a small micro uh thing with information on it.
So there has to be some sort of being that is able to get down on that level while still
being able to create on the macro level.
So it's not just like you've got these tiny little aliens inside of your body that can
create cells, but whoever or whatever this is has to be able to create intelligently at
both ends of the spectrum.
And information itself implies.
So the attributes that we're seeing in the objects that we're looking for and have
discovered, we find that there is evidence of intelligence, even in their makeup, in
particular DNA.
So all of this then uh constitutes, uh you referred to the human being, that itself is a
wonderful exhibit to examine and think about as we search for.
An object that has parts that work together to accomplish a useful and identifiable
purpose.
That's the key that we're looking for.
That's not man-made.
And and look at the human being.
Look at the eye.
Just examine that.
Look at the ear.
You can, you can find these uh charts that will go into very nice, give you very nice
graphics of the makeup of the ear and the eye.
And obviously you could take these up.
What's the purpose of the eye?
Well, that has an identifiable purpose, namely to allow us to see.
What about the ear?
Well, what's the purpose of that?
The end of all those components working together so that we can hear.
What about the hand and the thumb?
And I look at the hand and I look at my finger and I notice I've got joints in here.
I've got various hinges.
I can hinge as it go one way but won't allow it to bend in the other way.
Then as I put my index finger up, I notice I got a little hinge on top, another hinge
under that, and then another, and then it looks like I've got a ball and socket in here,
and then I have a thumb that works nicely allowing me to grasp things.
And you think of a little baby, for example, grasping the thumb of its mother, or
whatever.
ah
here is more what about the skeletal system uh...
and uh...
and the hinges that that are involved in that and and how it how the how the parts of a
rotate when you look into a a a gear or say a transmission in a all look at an automobile
man-made you've got these various things represented there and obviously sees these parts
that work together to accomplish there is a
Blood supply you have a nervous system that moves the finger and everything and that
attaches to the brain and the brain is just an amazing organ and it just does all that
stuff and comes back and Does what we wanted to do?
same thing
And I'm told recently by a dentist that when I go to the dentist, I look around and I
noticed the uh pictures that he's that they have of the teeth and so forth.
Well, you get the front teeth and you got the incisors and you got the molars that are
crushing things.
And I'm told that if you don't, if you don't uh chew and crush this food, you'll have a
problem with indigestion.
So that's part of the overall system as well.
And when I,
When I, after I become aware of this, of this, this uh evidence of design, the, that you
have an object that has parts that work together to accomplish an identifiable purpose.
Then I begin to look all around me and I see it everywhere.
We're in a room right now and it has books and you could talk about the parts of those
books and they're accomplished in a certain purpose.
i look at this this microphone same thing i look at the iphone i look at my hand and uh...
and i look at my blood vessels and i look at the there's i'm told that there is a uh...
the substance a liquid in my body that has this wonderful property that lubricates and
uh...
and i look at my uh...
i look at my i look at your eye i see i brought i see i live i see that you can
Close your eyelids.
And that's just on the outside.
We've got 11 different systems that work inside the body and each one of those have
components.
uh
the eyebrows?
Well, it keeps sweat from coming down here.
What's the purpose of the eyelashes?
It helps prevent dust from getting in my eyes.
Well, my eyelashes are gonna move and they're gonna cause a friction on the eyeball.
So what do I have?
I have tears in there to take care of that as lubrication.
But all of that, as we think about it, all of that has to do with the body part of the
human being.
What about the mind part of the human being?
yeah.
That's a wonderful, that's a wonderful study.
And we can talk about that.
Right.
What about personhood?
What about the sense of justice that we have?
Uh, what about rationality?
What about the laws of logic?
Where did they come from?
What about this sense of openness that we have called the conscience?
Where'd that come from?
Um,
Somebody says, wow, all of this is traceable to macroevolution.
Mahler's shoes to man.
Well, wait a minute, now you think about that for a moment.
What's the purpose of alleged macroevolution?
Nobody disagrees with microevolution.
uh That's small-scale observable change in the present, but extrapolating that all the way
back to origins, that's macroevolution.
That's where the controversy is.
And how are you going to uh explain the existence of
of the human being, not just the body, but also the mind, in terms of the mechanistic
materialism of macro evolution, the end of macro evolution alleged is survival.
That is to say tooth and claw and blood and death, hardly artness.
Yet we have a conscience.
have a recognition of artness.
Uh, where did this come from?
Furthermore, there's more.
We have a concept of infinity.
in this natural world as we think about it.
You take two mirrors and hold them up one to another.
And the concept of infinity arises in your mind.
Those things are going on forever.
This reflects that, that reflects back, that reflects back, that's going to go on forever.
I'm thinking of infinity.
So the concept of infinity is part of this world.
And we put all of this together as an assemblage and we conclude.
with purpose, with love, with sense of justice, rationality, personhood, concepts of
infinity, the eye, the ear, et cetera, et the brain and so forth.
Clearly, what we have said in Romans chapter one, verse 20 is affirmed.
And that is, we are without excuse.
God does exist.
I love that um verse, you know, God makes it known and so there is no excuse.
So no person will be able to get to the judgment and say, well Lord, you just did not give
me sufficient evidence.
You did not make it clear and obvious for me.
I think this passage and the few others demonstrate that it's not the lack of evidence
more than the lack of uh acknowledgement of that evidence.
Yes, and even David declared in Psalm 139, 14, I will praise you for I am fearfully and
wonderfully made.
And those things that George just described definitely remind us of that.
Marvelous are your works, he continues, and my soul knows very well.
And so it's just the more you think about just a human body, the more impressive, the more
awesome it is as to how all those components work together.
for that purpose.
And that purpose, of course, in humans, we know from Revelation, is to fear God and keep
His commandments.
And along those lines, 1 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 31, whatever you do, do all to the
glory of God is the purpose in this life.
And that of course gives rise to another question which we'll get into.
Has God revealed himself in more detail as to what his will is for us?
And is there an afterlife?
And is what we do or what we reject and accept in this life the evidence given to us, is
that gonna have an effect on us in an afterlife?
and so then we begin looking after having analyzed this week included dot exists and
intelligent being at least equal to the task exists even with infinite attributes has he
revealed his will more and that leads us into a close the bible
Yeah, God's existence and His sovereignty are known.
by the things we can see around us.
As you were citing the book of Psalms here, Brian, I thought about the book of Job, where
God kind of calls upon Job to look at kind of the small and the larger scale to view his
sovereignty.
Listen, Job, you know, you can see I exist, obviously, but if I am able to create these
things, and obviously I am able to oversee life and those things.
So God has made abundantly clear to us his eternal Godhead and power, as Roman says, just
by being able to observe
the world around us and you find those things over and again kind of mentioned throughout
the scriptures in various places.
And not only that, there's also repetition.
In other words, we think of individual objects that have these characteristics, but then
you've got a repetition.
Think of a blade of grass, for example.
And you could analyze that and notice its component parts and its purpose and so forth.
But then there is so much of it that it colors the ground green.
So you get repetition on this, reinforcement of this as we analyze this.
We should be overwhelmed with the evidence.
I think of the uh agnostic Bertrand Russell who was asked and maintained his agnosticism
oh late in life and he was asked the question by a reporter.
uh
If you, after you die and you find that God does exist, what would you say to him?
And he said, sir, uh
Why did you not provide me with more evidence?
Well, that is just uh counteractive to all that we have seen here.
And again, I believe that it's not a lack of, it's not a lack of will, not a lack of
evidence, but a lack of will or some other cause that.
uh
that justifies or allegedly justifies an atheism or agnosticism.
There is just too much evidence there.
And furthermore, we are here for a purpose and this evidence should bring us to God.
And that gives rise to the question then again, why am I here?
And, and, uh, and the answer to that we're going to find in the Bible is to glorify God.
gives us this evidence.
He gives us the choice of accepting him or rejecting him.
And that will affect where we spend eternity.
Yeah, um it's not the absence of the evidence that we keep saying.
In Romans, we're citing verses 19 and 20, or 20 in particular, I like the verse 18 that
says, the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness
of men who hold the truth, or Old King James says, who hold the truth and unrighteousness.
Other versions may use the word who suppress the truth.
And so these individuals are not necessarily saying, you know, it's not an idea that what
we just aren't intelligent enough to discern this is when we see it, we just don't want to
attribute it to God.
And it boils down to unrighteousness because if you can see that God is the ultimate
creator, and he is, but if you acknowledge that, then you also have to acknowledge his
morality as he reveals himself in the scripture.
And people would just as soon look to some, you know, faceless, moral-less,
or a moral, know, creational force because then there's no responsibility to it.
But if you hold and acknowledge the God of the Bible, he does have morals and uphold a
moral standard.
So people will do anything that they can do to suppress the truth about the God of the
Bible because then we have to acknowledge his standard and live by it.
And further, as we look at this world, this natural world, we do see purpose in it when we
look at the human being.
And so then that reflects, therefore, something about the Creator.
If we have purpose, then the Creator, we have to account for this purpose, and that leads
us to there being a personal God, not an impersonal
which is why some do not want to acknowledge God because if they acknowledge God and they
acknowledge that they need to live a certain life, that they don't want to live.
And going back to the Bertrand Russell um paraphrase or quote or whatever, but I was
recently studying John chapter 6, and this is in all the gospels really, you know, they
keep asking Jesus for a sign when he's already done a whole bunch of signs.
And so it's not one more sign is going to help them because it's more of a heart problem.
than an evidence problem and that's not the same with these evidences uh
gets into another could could get it lead into another study that we referred to in an
earlier session and that is that uh the the various causes of belief some causes of belief
are rational that's what we should be following but there are other causes of belief too
people are they believe things because of maybe threats or maybe uh some kind of a in
osmosis they inherit uncritically what whatever the society has been
believing and teaching or maybe they uh...
maybe they don't want to believe such-and-such because if they do that means that
grandmother is not right with god or something so all these different we have to rise
above that and follow the biblical mandate prove all things hold fast at which verse
that's on in 521 I would like to bring in one or two other passages from the scriptures
that underscore what we've been saying here one is Psalm 139 verse 14
which is what was mentioned earlier and that bears repeating, I will praise you for I am
fearfully and wonderfully made.
Marvelous are your works and that my soul knows very well.
And then again Romans 1.20, for since the creation of the world, that's from Genesis 1
bypassing all the way through from Genesis 3 up to the present, for since the creation of
the world, his invisible attributes are clearly seen being understood
by the things that are made.
And then Psalm 19 verse 1, the heavens declare the glory or the magnificence of God.
And Hebrews 3, 3 to 4 again, he who built the house has more honor than the house, for
every house is built by someone, but he who built all things is God.
And then Acts chapter 14 verse 13, he did not leave himself without witness in that he did
good
gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
And so then, the design argument succeeds in demonstrating that God exists.
Adequate evidence, witness just the human being, for example, therefore God exists.
And then in the next class, we'll look at another argument that is called the cosmological
argument for the existence of God.
all right we thank you george for sharing this material with us and for steve discussing
it with us here and we appreciate so much this enlightenment if you will and proof that
god does exist we thank you for joining us on this episode of the harvester podcast we
divide you as we continue next time with the cosmological argument if you have any
questions or comments about this podcast
or about anything we said, free to email us, fsop at fsop.net, and we'd be happy to answer
your messages.
We thank you again for listening, and join us next time as we discuss these things of
Christian apologetics.