Basic Motivations Webinar 2024

What is Basic Motivations Webinar 2024?

Every culture (family) has distinctive motivations for doing things, but they all have definite pattern and logic, they all provide order and direction within the culture (family). We need a valid cognitive styles model to help us understand the motives and actions of other people, to predict behavior, and sidestep conflict.

Connie Smith:

Did everybody get the the message from Vivian? Did she No. Okay. I would like to read that to you as to why she's not going to be here. Oh, oh my god.

Connie Smith:

No. I've been dealing with stolen identity problems and here we go. Me, I have. So you know? So what else is new?

Connie Smith:

Okay. So she says, sorry that I don't think I am ready to join today since I got to know today that one of my very respected spiritual mentors, she fell off a building and passed away.

Michelle:

Oh,

Connie Smith:

wow. Which is a huge sock shock for us. No one could see that coming. She had been a spiritual mom to me for 20 years. Wow.

Mike Banker:

Oh, my goodness.

Connie Smith:

So you can see what she means by she fell off the building. So, anyway, this is what I wrote to her. I wanna see if you all think it was an alright thing to write. She answered me back with a long string of hearts. I said, oh, my dear girl, what shocking news.

Connie Smith:

I'm so very sorry for your loss. For whatever felt, for whatever reason she felt this was her only option, she is now safe in the arms of her savior. Satan may have been able to mess with her mind and deceive her, but god is still has charge of her soul because she belongs to him. So grieve your loss. Hang on tightly to all she was to you, and all the ways having her in your life was a blessing.

Connie Smith:

Hang on tightly to the spiritual truth and growth you have received in her mentorship of you. Continue living in that. Let go of this last act. It does not define her. That is not her legacy.

Connie Smith:

Her legacy is you and others who were blessed for knowing her. You may even need, in parenthesis said, you may even need to accuse and forgive her for the betrayal of you in this last act. My heart aches for you and your loss.

Michelle:

Okay. Well well said. Well

Mike Banker:

Wow. Very well said.

Connie Smith:

Does that work alright for a case like this?

Michelle:

Yes. Very well said.

Connie Smith:

K.

Michelle:

Wow.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So, this has been a question made to me several times in the last the last year or so, and I've never known quite how to answer. Well, I knew what I believed, but but this is the first time I've actually put it out there like this to the grieving person, not just someone who is asking the question. Okay.

Mike Banker:

So for Donna and Cindy, one of Vivian's brilliant, spiritual moms, I guess you could say, killed herself.

Michelle:

Oh my.

Mike Banker:

And so Connie was responding to an email from Vivian. Yeah.

Donna Marcue:

Just last night or something?

Connie Smith:

Well, I don't know if it was last night or yesterday morning or when it was. I got the message this morning.

Donna Marcue:

Okay. Because we saw her yesterday, so it must have been between that time. Yeah.

Michelle:

Oh.

Donna Marcue:

She found out. Okay.

Michelle:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Awful. So, anyway, I was just wanting to read to everyone why she was not going to be on today. She just didn't feel she could emotionally hack it. And and then I also asked that they listen to what my response was to see if my response was, was legitimate.

Michelle:

Yeah. I I love how you said that, that's the lot. The last act is not her legacy. And, also, you said you might even accuse and forget, that one. I think that was very insightful and for me to understand.

Michelle:

I wish I had talked to you a few months ago because I, was helping someone who

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Michelle:

Lost a teammate.

Connie Smith:

And I thought it was extremely important that I say that Satan may have messed with her mind and deceived her.

Mike Banker:

But her soul

Connie Smith:

Oh, my but her her soul was safe in the arm arms of Jesus, really.

Michelle:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

I think it's beautifully done. I think that's the big question in the mind, isn't it, miss?

Connie Smith:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

And then the second part is that that, you may feel betrayed. You may have to forgive her. Mhmm. And,

Michelle:

Connie, would you mind send that to me or I just I just thought that was so beautiful that you put it from from different angle. That is

Connie Smith:

So that that was one of the, distractions this morning. And then, of course, Pam interviewed me to give him the help. Could you send it to,

Donna Marcue:

anyway, me too?

Mike Banker:

I don't know if Donna, but

Donna Marcue:

exactly yeah. I'd appreciate it because we've lived through that too in our family.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. And

Connie Smith:

it's just you never know how to respond to such a tragedy like that, particularly with the century, century, centuries, position of the church. Mhmm. That that's one of the that it is an unforgivable sin. And, therefore, you can't be buried in consecrated ground, and there's no hope of you ever attaining heaven and and that the teaching is still out there, not just in the church that started all that, but just in everyday churches, it's just it's just appalling to me.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Who are we to judge? What evidence is there in this woman's life that she belonged to god? You know? And who's to say that one act keeps her out? Well, it wasn't any act that got her in to the kingdom of god, to the family of god.

Connie Smith:

So who can say that one act takes her out?

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And then back to the verses that that God has been working through this last week, Isaiah 41, 1013. God's holding on with both hands.

Mike Banker:

Right. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

So, anyway, all that came together in a few minutes as I'm trying to to get to the desk.

Donna Marcue:

Mhmm. I'm here.

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, we had a wounded one that committed suicide. Yeah. And she was in a different city or from her safe helper. Her safe helper had prom she had promised herself help her she'd wait. The safe helper was, going to be there by the end of the week.

Mike Banker:

There were people with her 24 by 7, but there was a 1 a 3 hour stretch

Connie Smith:

Uh-huh.

Mike Banker:

Where somebody didn't show up, and she killed herself.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

But, one of the big problems was, everybody blamed themselves for what they did. And so that was a it wasn't just a sense of betrayal, but a sense that they had done something wrong. And so did sessions with, I think it was 3 different people that were affected by that one. And

Connie Smith:

So there there went that that that whole stream of if only I had

Mike Banker:

Yes. That's right.

Connie Smith:

If only I had. If only. So go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt.

Mike Banker:

Oh, no. That wasn't for the interruption. But the thing I think that, struck me today was to reassure them that this doesn't define who they are, that their soul is with that their soul is with, with God. I think that's the part that really touched my heart today.

Connie Smith:

When we read that, in the end times that even that the evil one is going to be so clever that he can even, deceive the very elect. And that's exactly what happened here. I mean, whether it's the end times or not, it's not what I'm saying. But they hear this woman who stood strong, stood strong all of her life, the good that she did, the absolute evidence, the outside evidence of loving and of of, spiritual life, spiritual teaching, uplifting of others, mentoring of others. No doubt as far as humans can see that she was a child of the living almighty god.

Connie Smith:

But something, after all, she was human, something began to eat at her. And suddenly, she's faced with a thing. This is so big or so awful or I I don't know. I don't know what it was. But we do know that it would have been the evil one that put the thoughts there, not god.

Connie Smith:

And so she she she will have to take responsibility for allowing herself to be deceived because it's a command that we don't be deceived. Don't dis or don't even deceive yourselves. Okay? So she will have to answer for that one or not, because I don't know what happens after after that. You know?

Connie Smith:

We have all kinds of ideas, but we have no idea what happens after we're welcome home. But to see that this was the only option she had. So in, in one sense, it's a downer to start the morning. But on the other hand, I have absolute assurance that she's safe in the arms of her savior and her heavenly father and that she was welcomed by a great crowd. You know, the scripture tells us many, many times, particularly particularly in the Psalms, but often even in Isaiah that the Lord saved me out of all my troubles.

Connie Smith:

And maybe this was one got way. She was saved out of her troubles. I'm not weeping. My emotion is not about Vivian's loss nor is it about what this woman did.

Mike Banker:

K?

Connie Smith:

My emotional concern is for those that allow themselves to be deceived. Children of God who allow themselves to be deceived by this wicked one who is the master deceiver to the point that they believe that this is the only answer. And then for those who believe, and I quite sure that knowing the teaching that's out there on this, that she has no hope to be to hold the foundation.

Mike Banker:

Right. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And I do not see that in scripture. Anyway, let's don't start this on a on a down note. This is a cause for rejoicing. One more person gets to be embraced and welcomed into heaven. That's cause for rejoicing.

Connie Smith:

So if someone would pray and offer up some praise and get us off of this down note, I think that's the way to get started this morning.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I'll pray. It's, father, our hearts, our hearts are with Vivian right now. Yes. And her, the loss of this dear mentor and friend, sister in Christ.

Mike Banker:

And so we pray father that she would find comfort in you. And, of course, as a human, she will mourn this loss, and that that's just that's okay. That's the way it should be. So, father, pray for her peace and peace for Henko and Jamie and also for the family of this, dear woman. And we do rejoice knowing that she is with you now.

Mike Banker:

And father, would you, also comfort all those that she mentored who are struggling with her death and, with her suicide. And, father, it's a very hard thing, to go through And just comfort them, give them your peace, and give them your assurance that she's that this woman's okay, and they will be too.

Connie Smith:

Amen.

Mike Banker:

Amen. And, father, would you just guard this time now for us and protect the technology? And father, our loved ones, would you, keep them safe so they don't need our attention right now? Would you also prevent all those things that we own from distracting us from this time now? And, as we, continue to study about people's basic motivations, the way that you made them.

Mike Banker:

I pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

Connie Smith:

Amen. Alright. Did we get through everyone, through the profile, of the person that you chose and you on one page? Did we get through the discussion for everyone? Yes.

Connie Smith:

I couldn't remember. Okay. So then the assignment was to turn it around. And so now, their their profile is you, and your profile is them. Excuse me.

Connie Smith:

I have to, actually just came in this morning just to say that, I need to thank you, but I have to take today off because I'm getting ready to travel to California to be with my fam with my to take care of my mother. So today is a just kind of hectic. So I will do my best to be tomorrow, but there tomorrow. But today, I have to take off because I just got a lot of things

Michelle:

to do. Problem, honey.

Connie Smith:

No problem. Yeah. We don't have to do what we have to do. Life does go on.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yep.

Michelle:

Can can we just pray quickly for Cindy before she leaves? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

There's a lot on her plate, and a lot of people tend to know her.

Michelle:

Okay. I'll quickly pray. Lord, thank you so much for yeah. It's just your love, your unchanging love, unfailing love, for us, each one of us. And no matter what situation, we are in, we know that we are secure in your love, and you are our, loving father.

Michelle:

So, now we commit Cindy and Scott and her whole family into your hand and knowing that you love them. I just pray that you will hold Cindy tight and, keep her close to you. Whisper your comfort, your hope, your love into her ear as she travels, as she leaves Scott home for a time, attend to her mom's need and also thinking of ministry in Mongolia, in Bethlehem, in Chiang Mai, all the things that are on her heart. I just pray that you will keep her close to you and that, yeah, speak, assurance and comfort to her that she would know that you are in charge, you are in control even though the world seems to be out of control. You are in control and trustworthy.

Michelle:

Yeah. I'm grateful for all the needs that we'll, present to her on the way, California or Canada or Mongolia or or Chiang Mai, that you got it. Oh, you know what she's facing, and you will provide for her all the needs. You will sustain her. And, yeah, just give her strength for the task.

Michelle:

Keep her safe. And, also, we, again, pray for healing for Scott. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. Amen.

Michelle:

Amen. Thank you, Michelle.

Mike Banker:

And thank you, everybody. We love you.

Michelle:

And, we're

Mike Banker:

willing to see you tomorrow.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Okay.

Mike Banker:

Love you too, Cindy.

Connie Smith:

Bye. Bye bye, dear. Alright. So, let's see. We is, is Carmen on?

Mike Banker:

I think so. Carmen, you there?

Mike Banker:

I am all I just finished the shower. I didn't know my shower took so long. Well,

Connie Smith:

I'm I'm glad you're on, and I'm I'm glad you weren't on in the shower. But but, I just didn't see you, and I missed your face. So that's why I asked. Because the other day when I asked, you were you were on. You just weren't yet on my screen.

Mike Banker:

Sometimes I have to lie down. Yeah. I I was yeah. But, yeah, I'm now I'm sitting here.

Donna Marcue:

So I

Mike Banker:

need to something. I went out, met some people, and then I came back. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

So

Mike Banker:

And, I heard from Stone. She started did you hear from Stone?

Mike Banker:

I no. I haven't heard from Stone.

Mike Banker:

Oh, okay. She it's her 2nd day working, and she's exhausted. Sounds like she's got more to do at home preparing for some some presentation to tomorrow or some, yeah, time. So she just text messaged me. I didn't see see until later.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

Or, yeah, until, like, 8:40.

Connie Smith:

Very good. Yeah. Very good to know. And we can also send up a prayer for her because is she not starting the the teaching a a PR?

Mike Banker:

Yes.

Mike Banker:

She's teaching. So she's got a lot of extra work to do or so

Connie Smith:

besides She's also working.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. She's working full time. Yep.

Mike Banker:

Right. And I think at the start of this week, the full time work. Right?

Mike Banker:

This is her second day.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

And, she was not used to working like this for a long time.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Mike Banker:

And so she's already scheduled, like, prayer resolution, teaching, and some something else sounds like. So she needs to prepare and get some rest.

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. That's why she felt she could not take tonight.

Connie Smith:

Very good. I'm glad she I'm glad she trusted in listening to her body and trusted in the fact that we would all understand.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Very good.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So you want to start with someone?

Mike Banker:

Sure. Looks like it's one of 2. It's Michelle or Donna. Okay. Donna, we'll let you go first this

Donna Marcue:

time. So what I understood was the assignment was to, how would you go about doing something with this person that

Connie Smith:

that we've been identifying this course? Well, the the the thing is whether it's that person or not, that might not be a good fit. But what if you if you are now the profile that you have down for this person is now you. And then what? And that the other person is has your profile.

Connie Smith:

So if you were if you were, time and they were, event, now it's turned around and you are event, and they are time are, yes, time. So how would you because it we're always doing it from from the me aspect because only me has in charge of me. Me trying to communicate with someone is my responsibility, not that it's theirs they have a different set of responsibilities. Okay? The person who is trying to communicate something is the one that I am always.

Connie Smith:

So now, Donna, you are very, in my illustration, you are very, very event. And the other guy, whomever you choose it to be, the other guy anyway, other woman, the other person is time. Now I don't know if that's true, but whatever it is.

Donna Marcue:

I'll start out, and you can correct me if I'm not approaching this the right way.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So what what does what does your profile look like now? Show me what your pro what your what this profile of overlapping things now looks like as it relates to you?

Donna Marcue:

You mean the diagram?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Donna Marcue:

Alright. Well, this is what I had.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, the star. These are the The star is the other guy? Yeah. And I don't know exactly how

Donna Marcue:

for how much what they do.

Connie Smith:

Have to figure that all out because the assignment is to you are now the lines and dots.

Mike Banker:

Alright.

Donna Marcue:

Well, let me tell you my example, and you can help me. I was gonna use example of church, going to church.

Connie Smith:

One of us is time. One of us is event. Okay. And which are you? Now in this in this

Donna Marcue:

I'm event if I switch around. I am Yep.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So your event and and he's Time then. Okay.

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Donna Marcue:

So as an event person, how do I want to be treated? Is that what you're asking?

Connie Smith:

No. It's not how you're treated. It's not about treatment. How is you going to deal as an event per no. Let's see.

Connie Smith:

As a time person no. It's the other way around. How are you as this event person, which means that you're the cause of being late. You're the one that's the cause now of your husband who is time. What are you going to have to adapt in order so that you can walk into the church in harmony?

Donna Marcue:

I'm going to have to, you mean the practical things about it now, like set my watch?

Connie Smith:

What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

Donna Marcue:

I'm going to have to maybe set an alarm on my phone or something when to start getting ready

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Donna Marcue:

Instead of losing track of time because I'm involved in something.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. And And that was what else might you need to do? Because remember, you get easily distracted.

Donna Marcue:

Well, I guess, let me can I start with the other side for a minute? I thought I had to adapt myself to him, so I was gonna start Saturday night talking about church instead of Sunday morning. Like, okay. Tomorrow, I would like to go to church in person. And I don't know if you wanna go with me or if you wanna watch online or if you wanna go to breakfast before we go to church, give them some options.

Connie Smith:

Okay.

Donna Marcue:

And give them more time to think because when I spring it on them in the morning, even though I think every Sunday this comes up, but it's still it's a novel idea on Sunday. Like, put a church in the middle of something. So let him think or at least present it earlier to give him more time and give him options about not going, going to breakfast, or we can go and take 2 cars. So you can come whenever you get there. And, you know, I like to sometimes stop at the store afterwards, and he might wanna get home so that we're more flexible.

Donna Marcue:

So I thought I'd give him all those choices. So now if I was him this is hard.

Connie Smith:

Right. That that was well, I mean, this is a good exercise of understanding this whole this this whole, tool. Mhmm. Alright? Because you're going to be presenting this, perhaps, to other people and to help them understand what this is all about.

Connie Smith:

So if you are now this selective event I mean, I haven't seen what your product profile looks like. I don't remember.

Donna Marcue:

It's all on the website. Selective, time, like, holism, casual relationships, and status earned. Those are all the tendencies to that side.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So that's you now?

Donna Marcue:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now looking at his profile, what does his profile say? He's more what?

Donna Marcue:

No. That is his profile. I I thought you were saying now pretend that's me.

Connie Smith:

For processes of this, the profile that we're looking at today, and you might just wanna do this, is, you are a and he is b in the profile that you have down there that we talked about yesterday.

Donna Marcue:

Alright.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Today, you are b. Mhmm. Today, you are a. Today, I'm what?

Connie Smith:

A, and he is b. That's my profile. I'm here. Yes. Yesterday, you were the stars.

Connie Smith:

No. No. Okay. So

Donna Marcue:

in other words, I'm gonna be who he is today. Is that what you're saying?

Mike Banker:

Yep. Alright. You woke you woke up this morning and voila. You're you're not the not the Donna you used to be. You're the a a new Donna.

Mike Banker:

And it so it turns out that your profile is the same as as your husband's was.

Donna Marcue:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

And now and he he woke up, and he's you.

Donna Marcue:

Alright.

Mike Banker:

Does that help?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's an anime show about this, but anyway yeah.

Michelle:

I know.

Connie Smith:

It's it's

Michelle:

kind of brain twisting.

Mike Banker:

You just have

Michelle:

to keep turning towards turning

Connie Smith:

your back. Helps then. It helps then if you label day, the first day, and then you put x's through that label and label today.

Mike Banker:

Alright.

Connie Smith:

So today Today, I am you are the lines, the dots.

Donna Marcue:

Hey. Now what do you want me to what's your question?

Connie Smith:

How are you going to relate out of him being the stars? Look at your profile. You said that you yesterday, you were the stars. Right?

Donna Marcue:

No. You got the reverse. But I've got I've got what Mike said. Okay. So today, I'm what he was yesterday.

Connie Smith:

There you go.

Donna Marcue:

Alright. So now what do you ask me? How will I relate to my wife who is this way?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. It's kind of a stretch.

Donna Marcue:

I don't know. Well, I'm not

Mike Banker:

looking the other way around.

Connie Smith:

Look the other way around then.

Donna Marcue:

And Well, I did. I told you what I would offer him for all his choices because I've never offered choices starting Saturday night.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That would be a very good thing to do. What are you going to about do about the fact that, not just on the time, or the selective, but what about, some of the other things? And it's still alright to use trying to get to church on time.

Donna Marcue:

Well, with the individual effort versus relationships, I won't care if he doesn't ride with me. He can ride alone. He can come. So that's I think that's giving him the option to,

Connie Smith:

But okay.

Donna Marcue:

Do either way.

Connie Smith:

Right. So but that's gonna be hard for you to do.

Donna Marcue:

Well, I can do it. And I do do it.

Mike Banker:

I do it.

Connie Smith:

Very good. Very good. And that's the whole thing. You can take charge, and you can do it. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Right. Okay? Yeah. Alright. I thought you did a very, very good job.

Donna Marcue:

Alright.

Connie Smith:

Because it's so At least

Mike Banker:

you got to

Connie Smith:

church earlier, and you got there with with being in harmony of getting there. Yes.

Mike Banker:

Okay?

Donna Marcue:

Time to think.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Donna Marcue:

Them to make them feel like this is our only choice. We have to leave by 9:30.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. So he's not terribly frustrated, and you're not terribly frustrated. Right. Very good. Very good.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Who else?

Mike Banker:

Okay. So, Michelle?

Michelle:

Yeah. I'll give it a try. I'm just like as I was going through, like, my brain keeps turning back. No. This is not me.

Michelle:

This is not okay. So I'll I'll just choose a scenario. Like, my son, graduation ceremony. So this is a, event, but because he now talking about the today's profile, he would be the one that's event oriented. I am going to be the time oriented.

Michelle:

So so instead of getting frustrated for not leaving on time, I would talk to him, ahead. And because he is also he's selective, and I am director. So I will discuss with him ahead of time, say, hey. Ceremony starts at 4 PM. What do you think?

Michelle:

What time we should leave? Counting traffic, counting, like, finding a parking spot. What time do you think? 3 or 3:15 or 2:49? Give him some choices.

Mike Banker:

K.

Michelle:

And because both of us would be dichotomist, so we would be focusing I just kind of focusing on going into this big hall, finding our seat. And, as a family and friends with us, it's important for us to be there before the guests come because also relational. We both will be relational and and emphasize that this is a group event. All our friends are coming to celebrate, so it's important for us to be on time. And because he is, casual, I'm very careful.

Michelle:

So I would go with casual instead of, I want to dress up more, see more formal. So maybe that would make him uncomfortable. We'll just go with casual clothes. And and then we both will be on the status earn. So, just yeah.

Michelle:

Yeah. So this it will be a, you know, master degree, but, ceremony. But I think it just said you have finished your work. So this is very worth celebrating, the hard work that you put in. So it's not about the degree, but emphasize that he has done his hard work, and we really want to celebrate with friends and families.

Michelle:

So there are 2 spots or 3 spots that we are on the same side. Mhmm. So I would choose that to emphasize, to motivate him. And for the the 3 the opposite ones, I would, adapt to go on his side to make it more harmonized.

Connie Smith:

Okay.

Michelle:

Does that sound right? I'm I'm just

Connie Smith:

Sounds like you're you got it down. Uh-huh.

Michelle:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

And more than likely, this will not work out that I'm just gonna do this or do that. You will have to figure out ways ways to go about doing this, and that'll come by experience. Okay? And it's the same if you're the other way around. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Adaptation takes, not just knowledge and not just the list of steps. Well, if he's this, then I'd definitely and I'm that, then I have to do this. But how can we take who we are or where not who we are, where we are on the continuum and where they are on the continuum and come to a happy agreement. Okay? So the the goal is to accomplish what the goal is in harmony.

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Donna Marcue:

If

Connie Smith:

the goal is that they they learn this maturing, if the goal is getting to church on time, if the goal is, you know, whatever it might be, Then what can I do to make this a harmonious getting accomplishment of the goal? So well done. I was trying to think of ways to approach a person who is not on time to get there on time, but he's also or she is also accomplishing the task of getting there on time with the group and not just an individual deciding to do this.

Donna Marcue:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And one of the ways in the illustration that she just gave is that to, if he's the, the relational one, is to get him to see that part of him having to do more is so that the group can all be there on time. That together, we want our group to be there on time so that each part of the group can do what they need to do. He can get backstage. We can find seats at the, front for the whole group or etcetera, etcetera. So the goal now isn't that that, he and I that that I get there on time or that I get him there on time.

Connie Smith:

And since you have all these other people, the goal then is to get the group all there on time. So each part of the group has to do his part. Alright. Who else? Seems to me like like you folks are are really getting this material.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Carmen? Yeah.

Mike Banker:

I thought of trying to apply this on a different person. So different than my pastor's wife because I came to realize there's only one thing she's different than me. That is her giving of making decisions more directed than me. And the other areas, I think we are similar. So I didn't feel like we had to adapt too much.

Mike Banker:

And oh, okay. I I don't know. The other person is easier to explain. Like, for example, when I work with Chinese pastors who's, who's, okay, it's hard for me to tell every continuum, but one obvious one I need to adapt is the status given or status earned continuum. So, like, reasons why I was in cost like, frequent contact with 1 Chinese pastor who approached me to look for training resources.

Mike Banker:

I'm on like, to con help connect the Chinese to the international network. And then after talking a few times, I realized they are really, yeah, before it was it happened right before we started this training and the ongoing of this training. The last meeting we have was Monday. And I I realized this is about the status thing. Like, the same kind of idea, if it came from my mouth, it it went like, wait.

Mike Banker:

It didn't go into them at all even though I offer them what I think would be more effective. But, after we met other, like, with older foreigners with years of experience in mission field, and the same thing came out of their mouth because I was the translator. Well, but that that that meeting, that made the difference. The person actually spoke Chinese because he learned the Chinese. I think they respected their status more than me even though we were talking about the same thing.

Mike Banker:

It didn't change their strategy until they heard from this person. And after they heard from this person, I I summarized again after the meeting, like, this is we were like, what I was talking about. You see this. And then they changed their strategy. Then I realized, okay.

Mike Banker:

I better I don't need to waste my words. What I see, they need help. I find the person who who has the same idea and the words come from their mouth. Mhmm. So that will help them accept.

Mike Banker:

Because my status in my in the people group, too young, too naive, too simple. They won't be what I say.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now now you you've got that settled pretty good. Now change this and make you the status given person.

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And you're trying to get the same point across to a status earned person.

Mike Banker:

That would be something I experienced, like, status given person. I will be the pastor. And I would so I there was a meeting. As I'm the pastor, status given person. And there is a member, addressing me with my name.

Mike Banker:

That's a status earned person. This person adjust everyone just by the name, not by their title. I would say, hey. Call me pastor Carmen, not Carmen.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So you would be very confronted then.

Mike Banker:

I don't know

Mike Banker:

if that was what I what happened. I don't know if it works.

Connie Smith:

Oh, I'm I'm saying we're we're doing that that's fine. Okay? That's fine. That's what what you would do. But if this person is casual is, status earned Earn.

Connie Smith:

Your heart reaction would be, they're being rude to me. They're not giving me the respect that my title deserves. Okay?

Mike Banker:

Oh.

Connie Smith:

But now the goal is to get this idea passed or accepted. Okay? So this person is coming to you, this this status earned person is coming to you who is very status

Mike Banker:

Given.

Connie Smith:

Given. And you're trying to understand what this person is saying because you think that their ideas and their help is going to be useful to you. So how are you going to make this, earned person comfortable enough to be able to explain to you what the program idea is and all all all about that? How are you going to have to re respond as the one who's leading this, trying to get a person with a good idea to be, comfortable enough to share your idea and for you to be patient enough to listen to them, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Mike Banker:

Or maybe in a Chinese way is to say, how can a pastor give how could you, as the pastor, give someone who has no status? How can you give them face?

Connie Smith:

They're an adult. Okay.

Mike Banker:

Right? Mhmm. No. I think these kind of pastors exist. I don't think that it's it's not a, you know

Connie Smith:

Well, we know that the we know that these pastors exist. They may not exist in your world, but, these

Mike Banker:

They may not be frequent, but they're out there.

Connie Smith:

And,

Mike Banker:

So how would you or maybe you wanna become the first one, the first pastor to to give somebody that's that's, has no status, to give them status, give them face. How would you do that?

Mike Banker:

Give them status. Give them face. To say you mean with words or affirmation?

Connie Smith:

However you would go about it.

Mike Banker:

You're asking I'm asking you.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. How how would you do that?

Mike Banker:

I'm not sure I I understand the application very well. The best I I can do is to relate this topic to several scenarios I went I've been through. And I it helped me understand the different reactions of the pastor to different people throughout the time.

Donna Marcue:

Alright. Okay. Okay.

Mike Banker:

I as far as how they can it's like, I am them now. How can I how can they they act differently to make this different? I felt like, okay. Let me try. Like, you say words of affirmation.

Mike Banker:

Like, what you said is very sounds very good. We will consider it. Thank you for speaking for us like that, but that sounds very fake.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Period.

Mike Banker:

Yes. I know.

Mike Banker:

For me to relate. I also realized I had another difficulty while I was learning this is to different differentiate between the character and the basic motivation when we talk about these descriptions. We tried to not make this judgmental. We tried to analyze and understand them. As I was analyzing the rules in my head, I'm not sure which part is comes from their character or sinful nature which comes from their basic motivation.

Connie Smith:

Well, let's just say everybody's bad actions or negative actions comes from their sinful nature, and we're all at work with this. God said you're not gonna reach your perfection. Okay? And it's not up to us to judge their sinful behavior. Perhaps your judgment of this person is part of the sinful nature that's still part of you.

Connie Smith:

Okay? So it's really not up to us to decide where this behavior comes from so much as let's just take where you are. You are earned. Right?

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

I think so. I am 10.

Connie Smith:

A 10. Oh, okay. So you're not earned. You're very you're you're on okay. So you're you're a 10 on earned, and this pastor that you're trying to sell your program to is a what?

Mike Banker:

No. I'm not selling my program. I just heard their strategy, and I thought their strategy is really doubtful. It's not not gonna work. But, when I point out

Connie Smith:

Did they ask for your opinion?

Mike Banker:

They asked me to help them find resources to meet their need, but I feel like what they want is Okay.

Connie Smith:

So then how if you disagree and don't think that this program that you're listening to is going to work I

Mike Banker:

thought it's gonna be a big waste of money and time and resources.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So when you go to tell, the

Mike Banker:

But I do. For who that is.

Connie Smith:

To do this evaluation.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Michelle:

When you

Connie Smith:

go to tell him, and he's very much, given, How are you going to approach him so that he accepts your your your evaluation of this,

Donna Marcue:

that this is not

Mike Banker:

approach? My my approach was my approach was

Connie Smith:

I'm not saying what your approach was. I'm saying if you're trying to do this and trying to get him to not do this program, that's the goal. To find

Mike Banker:

the status of people. To find people that meets their standard in their mind to them.

Mike Banker:

Somebody that has status that agrees with Carmen introduced the. That's her that's her plan.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So you would go through a mediator.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I like that. Actually, eventually, to the international world, everyone would see that's not effective. But someone would be more direct to point it out. Someone would just turn them away and not I I could feel like they would not want to.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Let let's, let's open this up for a little discussion here. Is it always possible to go through a mediator because we don't wanna change our approach?

Mike Banker:

Change our approach.

Connie Smith:

Which is what you're doing by saying, I don't wanna I don't wanna deal with this guy. I'm gonna have somebody else who has the status that he can respect. I don't wanna deal with him.

Mike Banker:

I was dealing with them. I was trying

Connie Smith:

to see talking about what you did. Uh-huh. I'm talking about your

Mike Banker:

If I didn't have other people to help, you mean? Right.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Let's go with that. Let's go with that. Yeah. Okay.

Mike Banker:

I usually choose not to work

Connie Smith:

You're earned. You're you are earned. You don't care about his title.

Mike Banker:

I respect, actually, I respect them in my approach, but I go realistically. And, because my understanding is they never like, their environment, their upbringing, their language is their mindset is different. So that's why when I learned this, I find this may be a little difficult to apply to myself to imagine.

Connie Smith:

Yes. You have a very, very yes. I would say that one of the difficulties here is the fact that you find it very, very hard to do a hypothetical situation. Imagine how something is.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So so imagine you're on another planet, and you're in this situation, and the people there can would respond might respond to

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I respect I admire you guys who can fix your mind like this. My difficulty was, for people who I I analyze that I include in this case study, it means I I include them in my life, and I think it's worth me spending time and energy on them. That means when we work together, there's not much of conflict, like, difficulties. But for people who I have difficulty working with that, maybe I need to adapt to, I didn't choose to work with them because there's no situation like a marriage or parental or whatever that had to combine me with them.

Mike Banker:

So I felt like I have too much of free life compared to maybe with everyone. I I didn't know how to put myself in this homework.

Donna Marcue:

Mhmm. Okay. I'll I'll kinda chip in with ideas because

Connie Smith:

Okay. That's what I was going to say. Alright. Let let me bring forth an illustration, that, to me really fits in this place. Remember the illustration of, Richard, being this mediator in Liberia?

Donna Marcue:

Where he had the shorts of

Connie Smith:

He was definitely not he's he's very definitely a status earned guy. He doesn't care what your title is. He doesn't care about any title he has. So what did he do when he met up, with the leaders?

Mike Banker:

He dressed himself

Connie Smith:

up. He

Mike Banker:

dressed himself up. Okay. So

Connie Smith:

one one thing he did was he understood why that he didn't have the right dress, so he went out and got it. Can you imagine in the heat of Liberia And my husband has has now bought a light green polyester suit.

Mike Banker:

I can't imagine that. That's very difficult.

Mike Banker:

My husband

Connie Smith:

my Heather's husband's color schemes run to black, dark brown, navy blue.

Mike Banker:

Oh, a man after my own heart.

Connie Smith:

Oh, and khaki. Yeah. So he went out and dressed appropriately. What did he do when they are very very status given?

Mike Banker:

But, Connie, yesterday, I was listening to this. I had my question. You used this example, but my question was what I heard from the astrological missionaries in in Africa was, you know, originally, the Africans, they didn't have to dress in suits until the American Christians bring the American Christian culture. Okay. Okay.

Connie Smith:

That that's the that that's trying to adapt too far, and it wasn't then even this is a whole another study, honey. This is a whole another study.

Mike Banker:

And

Connie Smith:

I mean it it will not we we can't we cannot add that to your collection of of information that contradicts each other right here. Okay? There's not time.

Mike Banker:

Contradicting. Basically, what That's why I find it difficult to apply. It doesn't make sense.

Connie Smith:

So so because your application is always to the extreme.

Mike Banker:

If Richard, like, behave like a normal American, maybe the Africans would understand, okay, we don't have to dress. They will take their suits off. And why should they? Because they didn't have to have it from the beginning.

Connie Smith:

Well, they didn't have to be they didn't have to have it in the beginning. They didn't even have to have shorts in the beginning.

Mike Banker:

But he did he didn't go there to fix that. He didn't go there to fix that problem. He went there for a different reason. So he didn't want it to be he didn't wanna get wrapped up in an issue that wasn't, his purpose for

Connie Smith:

him. Pertinent. But I'll put that, but their idea was doing. Oh, okay. Okay.

Mike Banker:

So your purpose, Carmen, your purpose is you have this leader. He's Chinese leader, and he's a status given kind of person. And the problem is you don't have status. And so what you say, he doesn't listen to. And so how do you how what could you do so he would listen?

Mike Banker:

Or if you were him, what you could you do to give face to a person who is not stat doesn't have status? And that's the 2. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Oh, let let me the

Mike Banker:

focus right now.

Connie Smith:

So yes. I mean, so he's now dressed properly. When he got into the meeting and they were introducing themselves, what did Richard do? Number 1, well, number 1, he was enter the the leader of this group was, I can't remember his name, but I'll make up one. He was bishop Moe.

Connie Smith:

He was introduced as bishop Moe. So Richard always addressed him as bishop Moe. When he talked about him, he talked about the bishop. What do you mean? K.

Connie Smith:

When they were all introducing themselves, what did he do what did Richard do? Remember, he's he's not interested in the titles, and he's he's very Mhmm. Earned. Him, like, he's bragging. Very, very given.

Connie Smith:

Pardon?

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

He introduced himself like bragging.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. You see? You see where she's from?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That is a judgment by a earned person by a dichotomist, actually. But, anyway, that's beside the point.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Was there a sin in what he did? Since everything in in your mind results in either sin or not sin, was it a sin in in doing what he did?

Donna Marcue:

I think by sharing his credentials?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Anyway, he didn't share credentials. He shared what he, what he did.

Connie Smith:

Oh, I didn't know that. Things would came out that he had earned a at that point, he had a master's in linguistics. I think was that that master.

Mike Banker:

But I I'm confused, Connie. I thought he was with the guy that is looking for earned, not given.

Connie Smith:

So you No. Sure.

Mike Banker:

What he did. Right?

Connie Smith:

He was given, and he did. He shared Richard is a, earned. The librarian were all Pastor Moe was it. Not Pastor Moe. Bishop.

Connie Smith:

Bishop Moe. And they are very given. So Richard told them all the things that he had accomplished, including his educational degrees and stuff, to show that he was an expert. Even though he would earn it, he was the expert and had the publications and the expertise to do this. Okay?

Connie Smith:

And so between that, and they were also very, given on age. He was older. Not that they were that he was older than than bishop Moe, but he was older than he had enough gray in his beard to be accepted as older. He talked about his position. He talked about all those things.

Connie Smith:

Was that a sin?

Mike Banker:

No. It's

Connie Smith:

not No. What did Paul do when he was talking to, earned peep status earned peep status given people?

Mike Banker:

Listed as credentials.

Connie Smith:

And what were his credentials? That he went to such and such a school? Well, yes. Yep. He was a student of the famous Gamaliel.

Mike Banker:

Right. Of the tribe of Benjamin, I think you said. Right?

Connie Smith:

Yep. And he even gave that that that given status. Okay? But then he also gave all of his experiences, being shipwrecked, being beaten, being this, being that, being shipwrecked. I guess I said that.

Connie Smith:

Anyway and so on and so forth. And so he laid this all out before them so that they would receive him because he had enough status to be received. He dressed like them in order to be received. Were these things sin? No.

Connie Smith:

Definitely not. There was no sin. There's no attempt to deceive or to put himself forward. He simply stated facts in order for them to be able to hear him.

Mike Banker:

It's a very humble perspective to talk about, yeah, how you behave yourself when we are on different, different, culture background. The but the yeah. This is why we are learning this, but I as I'm listening, I always have a different idea. You know? If I speak out on every idea, I don't think we can continue on this topic.

Mike Banker:

But I'm like well, I'm thinking, like you know, just like when Americans come to China, Chinese will not be like those Africans through through you guys out, but Chinese also have this status earned kind of norm among who what's it like to be a teacher. Chinese teachers usually dress themselves up. Right? No teacher would wear jeans. Until the Americans come and they come in jeans and T shirts.

Mike Banker:

That's my impression. But Chinese, slowly, they they accept and realize, okay, teachers don't have to be so serious. So we learned to see who was a real teacher. It's not about your dress. It's about your character.

Mike Banker:

That's at least, that's very helpful. Seeing what the are like as Chinese.

Mike Banker:

So that so that might not have specific application to you, the example, but the idea that is that you do something to adjust to the person that you're communicating with so that they would listen. I think that's the idea. So maybe dress is not the thing to change in in China at this point and not the thing to change in in, Africa at this point. But the so, like okay. So, Carmen, I I I understand where you're coming from.

Mike Banker:

I've I've seen this, the status given thing. So okay. So you're a woman, you're young, you're not married, you're not a pastor, and you're not a church planter. So

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I can't always say I'm working with

Mike Banker:

And then and then on top of it, you mobilize missionaries, but you can't tell them that usually.

Mike Banker:

I don't see what I do.

Mike Banker:

Creates, trouble. So all the things that you could, so so it's a difficult it's a difficult thing.

Connie Smith:

There's one more piece here, though.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. Yep.

Connie Smith:

They have come to her and said, I would like you to help us choose.

Mike Banker:

Yes. Very good.

Connie Smith:

So they came to you.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Choose resources. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So they've come to you for you to help them.

Mike Banker:

So you they see you as a translator, but not just a translator. Yeah. Because, apparently, they think you have a good network that you can find resources. Right?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Some Okay. I think they are looking for resources. Okay.

Connie Smith:

How can they how can you do all this is about is that you come from different spots on this continue this particular continuum.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And how can you get them to, how can you communicate to them in such a way these suggestions to either accept them or not accept them? You think this is not a good idea. They've asked you to evaluate to help them judge that. So they've come to you now and say, well, what do you think? How are you going to present this in such a way that they hear what you have to say?

Connie Smith:

If I can into their input and thinking.

Mike Banker:

If I can make a bragging of myself to introduce

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, anyway, let's, let's go ahead and, I think everybody's had some input into this, and I think we're all beginning to understand more and more what the model is all about and what the kind of things that need to be done. Okay? I don't mean to cut you off, but, let's hear from who's left.

Mike Banker:

I'm I'm the only

Michelle:

one left. So Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So like Richard, you could brag. Yep. Okay. So in my case, k, I woke up this morning.

Mike Banker:

I'm him, and he's me. So how would I change? Well, in looking

Connie Smith:

Oh, no. No. Take down the word change.

Mike Banker:

What? Now change. Not the word change. Adjust? Thank you.

Mike Banker:

How would I adjust? I was hoping for something more permanent, but we'll go with adjust. That's a sad statement, isn't it? Okay. So so now I'm looking at I'm him and I'm looking at me and I'm saying, okay.

Mike Banker:

I'm more time oriented. I'm I'm more holistic. I'm more directive. I'm more status given. So how will how should I treat, that other person who is, so then I'd say, okay.

Mike Banker:

Well, I would I should give him more time than I planned or at least give him my full attention during that time, not be distracted by all these time things that are always on my mind. So give him my full attention at least. If I do, then our communication will be better. I should, and when he shares all those details, and I don't like details, but I should ask about the details because it shows that I'm I'm I'm moving towards him

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Rather than than holding in my little And

Connie Smith:

that you are engaged power. Hearing him.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. That I'm hearing him.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

And then, I should also, offer k. So the the issue I'll just tell you what what I'm trying to what I want from him is I want him to include PR in his his training school.

Connie Smith:

There you go.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So Oh. Yeah. So I'm working with the guy. I'm the guy that's that I that I want to, accept PR into the training school.

Mike Banker:

So I'm I'm the guy that decides whether it's in or not and but I'm quite directive. But because this other the guy that's presenting it is is, more selective than I am. I'm gonna offer several ideas for including PR in the training, because that would again, it's communication, trying to communicate with him. And then finally, I'm stat because I'm status given, I know this guy doesn't that wants PR in the school. It doesn't have a PhD, but I'm going to recognize his contributions to our program so far and express gratitude.

Mike Banker:

So that's, I think Carmen mentioned this kind of affirming, giving giving some well, Chinese terms, giving face. But in western terms, we would just say affirming their contribution. So

Connie Smith:

Affirming them as as a worthwhile being.

Mike Banker:

Yes. Yes. Actually, I was struggling with the words, but the and that's what I was struggling with was not just their contributions, but them. They're trying to get words that express gratitude for them, not just gratitudes for what they've done. And so, anyway, those are the things I came up with.

Mike Banker:

2 things we were the same, this casual and individual effort. So I didn't feel like I had to do anything there.

Connie Smith:

Well, but you still do. Okay.

Mike Banker:

What's that?

Connie Smith:

Casual. Alright. What if your casualness causes him to miss the point totally?

Mike Banker:

Well, he's casual. I'm casual.

Connie Smith:

His casualness is including it someplace else, in some other, aspect. He want, your casualist says, oh, let's wait until tomorrow until we get the until we start this. And he says, well, his casualist

Mike Banker:

says Okay.

Connie Smith:

Oh, I you know? Nah.

Mike Banker:

So no decision because we're both too casual. Right. That's a good point.

Connie Smith:

This is the biggest problem with people who are too close together is that just because you're close together on the continuum doesn't mean that you have exactly the same ideas or exactly the same approach. And so you can cause offense to one another. You can cause block to one another. Because you're using the the same thing, you can both be dichotomous, but your set of boxes are different than his set of boxes.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Or your box might be bigger than his box. I've often said that I don't think I I have changed any of my doctrine or theological stance since my college days. It's just that my god has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger box.

Michelle:

Mhmm. Amen.

Mike Banker:

So how about the individual effort thing then, Connie? We're both oriented that way. Is that another

Connie Smith:

Well, then we need to assign tasks. We can either work together. And part of our working together is that you take this one and I'll take that one. So that our working together, gives us each particular jobs to go do on our own.

Mike Banker:

So kind of, what's in it for me? Like, where where do I fit?

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Where do I fit?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's interesting because I just skipped over those 2 thing. Oh, we're the same.

Mike Banker:

That's it. You know?

Connie Smith:

Yeah. But you take any any one of them, any one of them. And, you might be the same place on the continuum, but there's still conflict. And now nobody knows how to resolve the conflict because you're both approaching the conflict from the same the same direction.

Mike Banker:

Oh, that's really interesting too. There's no way to solve it because you both see it the same way.

Connie Smith:

You're both going down the same track. The problem is that your your destinations are a bit different or or whatever. Anyway

Mike Banker:

Wow. That's really interesting. You might have answered my question because I was struggling with why is there conflict? That was something I'm struggling with. So okay.

Connie Smith:

Is struggling to understand another person or struggling to get your point across to this person, is it sinful? Is it sinful to try to get your point of trust to another person?

Mike Banker:

Well, the way you do it might be, but the idea of sharing is not. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

So the doing of many, many, many things are not at all simple.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

But how you do them

Mike Banker:

Yes. Yeah. So, for example, beating somebody over the head with a Bible probably is not

Connie Smith:

Probably not really the way to do, either a directive or a selective person.

Mike Banker:

You might call that sinful, I suppose. Okay.

Connie Smith:

I I mean, the description does say that the word of God is a weapon, but I don't think that's the way it meant.

Mike Banker:

That's not what they meant, though. Okay. Yeah. I should be I should read more carefully so I don't do that anymore. No.

Mike Banker:

Just kidding. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I was I was thinking, though, about sitting in his place.

Mike Banker:

I was thinking about a guy that I met when I worked for Honeywell. He was from South America. I can't remember which country right now, but but he was he became the CEO of Honeywell. And when I met him, he was totally different than any c a o CEO I've ever met. And the key difference was is when he introduced himself, I introduced myself.

Mike Banker:

He looked me straight in the eye, and his full attention was clearly on me. I've never experienced this among anybody in management until I met this guy.

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

And my takeaway from that was that is so powerful. But, anyway, I thought, I guess, maybe you need to grow up in Latin America to know how to do that because it's sure not common in America. But, anyway, it's very it's very interesting this way. Full attention. There was nothing else in his world at that moment except me.

Mike Banker:

But the thing that really struck me is how powerful that is. Very powerful. Your full attention is really

Connie Smith:

You can't imagine how many, testimonies of, the healed ones are with the fact that this is the first person who loved me enough to listen to me and hear me. They validated my feelings. First time anyone has ever validated my feelings. How powerful that was.

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Connie Smith:

Yep.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. And then I met you, and, you're not from Latin America, so I realized that wasn't a cultural thing.

Mike Banker:

She did live there for a while.

Mike Banker:

But, yeah, she did live there for 11 years, so maybe could throw that or something. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's it's really useful if you can do it. It's hard, though, to put yourself in their shoes like that, and and but it's very useful to see to see where they're coming from, but also to see how they could they could move towards the middle too.

Mike Banker:

They could close that gap as Sandeep said.

Connie Smith:

And that is the respect that you're giving them and the worth that you're giving them that they want the same thing you want. They want to communicate this. They want to learn this. They want to do this project. So we're all on common ground.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Or they may even be an be an enemy. And what are we to do with with enemies? Well, we're to do everything we can do to make friends out of it.

Mike Banker:

So for a short time in my life, I was a salesman selling computers in Northern Minnesota, $1,000,000 computers. And, I met this one guy up on the Iron Range. He did not like me. That was clear from the first time we met. And, so I told him a joke.

Mike Banker:

I told him about I told him about this guy that goes to heaven and Peter meets him at the gate. And Peter said, this has never happened before, but in your case, you get to choose. So it's not a very theologically sound story. And so he he said, so, well, let me see heaven. So heaven is all flowery and angels and everything's bright and peaceful.

Mike Banker:

And he says, well, out of curiosity, let me see hell. And he goes and there's a disco ball that's spinning and everybody's dancing and drinking and having a great time. And the guy says, well, this is really, kind of surprising to me, but, I have to pick hell. So poof, he's in hell. And there's he's sitting there and, in the dirt, and there's flames shooting up everywhere.

Mike Banker:

And, and he's sitting next to another guy, and he says, wow. This is not what I saw. And the guy turns and looks at him and says, oh, so you saw the demo. So after that, he was okay with me because I wasn't, trying to push him too hard to make his decision. But, yeah, I don't know.

Mike Banker:

I guess I just have to tell a story. I don't know what the heck to do with anything. But,

Connie Smith:

It shows that you under that you were prompted for whatever reason

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

That this man, you needed to bridge the gap.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yeah. True. That's right. To bridge

Connie Smith:

the gap.

Mike Banker:

Problem here. And he wasn't gonna listen to me, but he might listen to this joke. And he did, and he laughed, and we got on to sign after that. So

Connie Smith:

Interesting.

Mike Banker:

So but you have to find a way to close the gap.

Connie Smith:

That's the whole purpose. The whole purpose.

Mike Banker:

In some people, it's really hard, actually. Like, a person who doesn't listen to anyone and now they come for a session with you

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

They're not gonna listen to you either. So so don't tell them what to do. Yeah. You say, oh, it seems like it seems like you have a problem here. What do you think?

Mike Banker:

And, what would you do about it? And etcetera, etcetera. Everything is their idea in that way. And that's the way that's the path forward with somebody who doesn't listen to anybody. You don't have to tell them.

Mike Banker:

So, anyway, close the gap. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

We had, without being making it a long story, we had a young man come to us who was a seminary graduate, all kinds of degrees, smart as a whip, working for a, at that time, a, well known Christian nonprofit in charge of a whole lot of things and so on and so on and so forth. He had a very, very, very bad home life. His he was Middle Eastern family, but, they were, he, I think, was born here. And then his parents who are from Syria, they all have anyway, terrible turmoil. Not because his parents were missionaries, but, they were Syrians, I think, ethnic play.

Connie Smith:

Anyway, he would get so in the beginning, he would get so upset with me, so upset with me. And finally, he spoke what the frustration was, and I could work on that. Don't give me your thoughts in declarative sentences. I don't know where he was on the continuum because we weren't looking at continuum. But he had a mother who was a wicked witch, I tell you.

Connie Smith:

She may have been a born again Christian missionary, but she was a wicked witch to this boy.

Mike Banker:

And,

Connie Smith:

verbally, I can't even say some of the curses she put on him. But I sit said to myself I I mean, he he would just you could see he was angry with me. So it took me a while on how to phrase things as questions rather than stating them as declarative because those things to him meant judgment, and he could always hear the voice of his mother with every declarative sentence. Today, this man is is now serving and, living, working, and become part of Saudi Arabians. And, he he loves me like a mother.

Connie Smith:

And, anyway, he became part of our family, kinda. So it was well worth me being aware of where he was coming from so that I could adapt in order to communicate. Now, really, at this point, it's not about what continuum this was and all that. I mean, we could figure all that out. But I'm sitting there in a session.

Connie Smith:

Richard's leading the session, and I'm having full input. Richard is very interesting. He he always sat back and and, he was in charge. But, I did a lot of the talking and questioning and that kind of thing, and then he would add his bit to it. But, anyway, point being that in this case, I I've found out what it was that was making this young man so angry with me.

Connie Smith:

And so I worked on that so that I could better communicate with him. Now is that bragging? No. It's a story. A biographical story.

Connie Smith:

Biographical. Yes.

Mike Banker:

Very good story too.

Connie Smith:

But, really and truly, when this man is on the stateside, he always calls me. And a couple of years ago, we had enough time that he actually came down and stayed with me for a couple of days.

Mike Banker:

Hey. Ted is probably Ted is going downhill pretty fast. Okay. The hospice is coming today to set up. K.

Mike Banker:

But, I kinda sense this, a week ago. I I told Denise I don't think he has long to go. Deb didn't feel that way, but I just, just noticed something. So

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

But, anyway so I'll be over there this afternoon to spend time with him and Right. He's still able to talk, but he's losing some of his other abilities pretty rapidly. So

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Our prayers kinda begin to change a little bit then, don't they?

Mike Banker:

What's that?

Connie Smith:

I said our prayers begin to change a little bit as we see this kind of thing happening.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Donna Marcue:

Yep.

Mike Banker:

I just want him to have peace, as he goes through. And Yep.

Connie Smith:

Rest of his days, he has peace. Yeah. And that part of that piece is also not excruciating pain.

Mike Banker:

Right. Yeah. So far, he has no pain.

Connie Smith:

Oh, that's marvelous. That was my mother, the pancreatic cancer. Never a lick of pain.

Mike Banker:

Wow. And that's pretty unusual, I think, for pancreatic cancer.

Connie Smith:

Unusual. Yeah. Very unusual.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yep. No pain, peace. And and still that he could just continue to be able to communicate despite everything else. And

Connie Smith:

And that when that Mhmm. Asks us to do what's what's the best and when it's time to have it be quick. Right.

Mike Banker:

It's a good point. Yeah. We're talking about TED.

Michelle:

So yeah.

Donna Marcue:

Alright. I hear that.

Mike Banker:

Denise went to the Twins game with Deb last night to

Mike Banker:

That's good.

Mike Banker:

Just to recharge before all of this. And

Connie Smith:

Get away from all of it for a bit Yep. Hour or 2. I use Richard a lot because he's not here to defend himself. He would never use that, but I use I use him a lot because he was he was so different than than I am and how god used to work that together. I remember, he was not a he was a time person, so sitting around having coffee of course, look at the countries he's worked in and lived in, But he had to sit around and drink coffee or tea or whatever.

Connie Smith:

When he got to, Blinn County, Virginia, he said, this is where I'm learning how to grit my teeth and do small talk. He was definitely not a hugger, not a not a hugger. And he learned early that other people were. And in order to not offend, he could not only let them hug him, but he could hug them back. Now that was not who he was, and he would prefer not.

Connie Smith:

I remember one time, he was, working, and I could see that, this is when we're in the that, the mat with the mat saw. And by the way, they they were people who, just a g string or a skirt. But they had a little bit acquainted with other of the tribal groups that would come through. And so, anyway, another long story. We did have an anthropologist who went so far as to try to dress like them, and they just laughed it laughed at him.

Connie Smith:

I mean, he wasn't one of them, so why would he why would he try to dress like that and all that? White skin. But then we had another one, anthropologist, who came in, and he really did a good job of the study that he was doing. And he dressed western, but, well, he he he dressed in normal clothes is all I'm saying, not necessarily western. And nobody thought anything of it.

Connie Smith:

He wasn't a matzah, so why wouldn't he wear what he wanted? In the matzah now, we're beginning to have pieces of clothing here and there. But he got to know the people, and the people loved him. And the goal you see, the goal in a cross cultural thing, is that you're not trying to be one of them. No.

Connie Smith:

You're not trying to be them. What you're trying to have is a place of acceptance within them. And we found and we see this evidence that in order to belong, it's not that you had to to to be them, but you had to have a a place in the social structure, and you had to have a re, a some kind of a kinship relationship. And now you were really one of them. You weren't them, but you were one of them.

Connie Smith:

Eventually, Richard's place was the, the one who brought, people to learning, which was one of the titles that the, of a shaman. But they defined it as he was one who brought people to a knowledge of of God. And, then one day, when I'm in just in, maybe as much as my mid thirties. And this old grandma came all crippled up, no teeth, and the whole thing came, and she came walking across the airstrip and came up to the up to in into the house. And she dropped her cane, and she said to me, grandmother, I have arrived.

Connie Smith:

Well, we all event so now I had a I was related kinwise, which made Richard related kinwise. But we did all decide that grandmother was really not okay, so I became everybody's mother. That was my my kin term in the tribe, but we never became them. There were many occasions where, where Richard violated his time orientation. For instance, another story here, but he adjust he adapted his time orientation to whenever he was it was possible and he was in the big city.

Connie Smith:

He would go by the immigration office and have coffee or have a chat or find out about their how their families were doing. At one point, he was reprimanded by our area director for spending so much time not doing his job. Well, there was a time we we had to have visas for everything. We had to have an exit visa. We had to have an entrance visa, and so on and so forth.

Connie Smith:

But we were very well acquainted with them because the 1st year we were there, we were there as tourists, which meant we went down to the office every month. And you never knew if we when they lifted the stamp, if the stamp would say, you can be here another 15, days, and then you're out forever. Or if it, if it was gonna say, yes. You're granted tourists for a visa for the next 30 days. Because of showing them respect and talking and showing and so forth, One application there, I made a, the error of writing for the reason that I wanted this was to to study more Aram Herrick.

Connie Smith:

So I went when I went in, everybody was sad faced, and oh dear. Oh my. And, they said, well, you know, in order to study air Amharic, you have to have a student visa. Oh. And and so they they began in a in a nice way without actually This application is really hard for us to process.

Connie Smith:

This this application, so, you know, it's going to be rejected. So, anyway, I finally got the point. So I said, what would happen if I asked to have that application back and I tore it up and that you give me a new application to fill out? And they rushed to give it to me so I could get rid of it and to fill out this new one. And I filled it out that I had not yet been able to see one of the most, famous section of the country, and I really, really did want to see that.

Connie Smith:

Of course, the fact that it was a closed area at this point during the war, and they couldn't have gone there anyway, but it was passed. Everybody was so relieved. But it was because they knew us we had a relationship. One time, we had forgotten to get our kids an exit visa, when they came home from, school break when they were going to boarding school in Kenya. And we had gotten them their entry visas, but we had forgotten about the exit visa.

Connie Smith:

So we were not allowed to go into the airport with them at that time. And so we left them out, at the door, said our goodbyes till the next time, And they went on alone and so on until they so we went on about our business. I think Richard had one of his cluster headaches series that day, and so we were trying to get some him some relief. So we went on downcountry. And couple weeks later, we were back in in the city and met up with one of the other, parents of kids who were at Rip Valley.

Connie Smith:

And, they said, boy, god certainly did a miracle for you in that sense. And we said, well, in what sense? Well, your kids were left, were not left. Your kids did not have their exit visas. Now an exit visa takes, you know, several days to do because all these things that have to take place.

Connie Smith:

And they didn't have their exit visas. So I grabbed them up, and I took them to immigration to see what could be done because we didn't couldn't get a hold of you, of course, because there were no cell phones out of that in those days. And because they the the immigration people knew our children, They didn't have a photo of, a photo. They didn't have a report from the, community Center group, you know, each community had a belonged as a group anyway. They didn't have papers signed by them, so on and so on and so on.

Connie Smith:

But because they knew Richard, reckon knew our children, etcetera, and their parents weren't even with them, they were all handled right there, and the kids made the plane. So Richard, over his time of of adapting his time in order to make relationship with these people paid off big time. If you're going to build a relationship, you kinda have to to your part is to to do what's necessary in order to be let in. This this I don't know if I told you this this story or not, but, we had semi diplomatic relationships with the government in our early days, at least in Colombia. And, so, because our contract was signed by the congress and all of that kind of stuff.

Connie Smith:

Anyway So we we had a certain status given, but we had a a a young man. Well, I I say young man because, you know, when you're 87, everybody's young. But a a fellow, a coworker, colleague who had a motorcycle that he was trying to get released from impound. And it had now been weeks, and he was getting really antsy, and he was even getting angry because this was taking so long. And they're they're they're really so when he got to this, he went to the, office of this, of the of the the customs officer that had charge of motorcycles, I guess, you'd say.

Connie Smith:

And he came in angry and approached the man angry and approached him with his rights. And, you know, my motorcycle has been here for weeks weeks, and whenever is it going to be released, and he was he was rude. He did not do any of the pleasantries that were required and none of that. Play the ugly American. And the reaction to the man was, oh.

Connie Smith:

And he reached across where there was a stack of of, papers, and he picked the top one. He said, oh, you mean this application? Yes. Yes, he says. Oh, so he let the guy lifted up that stack of papers and put it on the bottom.

Connie Smith:

There would have been more appropriate ways given the culture, given this man standing, many more appropriate ways to have approached this man and made him a friend because they are relational more relational people. And, you know, you scratch my back, I scratch yours, all this kind of stuff. I remember a a a time in Israel, and we've we've kinda learned this from entry into different places. Anyway, we're in a long line at the airport trying to leave Israel. And they had had had just had another attack, and so everybody was uptight and everybody was was, very security conscious and all of that.

Connie Smith:

And we came to the security desk, so to speak, which we as foreigners had to go through in order to to be allowed to leave and so on and so forth. And these people were really, really hassled and and tired and very, very much this way. And so what we have found over time that in most in most, controlled situations that a man is always a threat. Many, many, many places we've been. The man is the threat.

Connie Smith:

The woman is just the nothing, but the the man is a threat. So Richard would nudge me, and I would begin. I was in. I was the one that went forward, and I was the one that talked to them, and I was the one that asked about the families and all this kind of stuff. Because I'm no threat.

Connie Smith:

I'm a woman. Well, in this case, we could see that the interrogation was getting pretty, pretty stringent. So Richard had me go first. And so they began to ask all these questions. How long had we been in Israel?

Connie Smith:

Where did we stay? What were the names of the people? How long were we in this place? Where did you travel to? And all of these questions.

Connie Smith:

And, finally, answered them answered them. But then they when they got to the question, so I'm I'm standing there first. Richard is standing beside me. And so he and I are both answering these questions as best we can. So where did you stay?

Connie Smith:

How did you meet these people? So, anyway oh, I said, why when we were acting in in and I think it was Holland we were, and we met this woman and this man, and they become such good friends. And we just talked about our families and where we were from and how we enjoyed where where we lived. And and they told us so many wonderful things about about Israel, and we became friends. And we've been writing to each other and so on and so forth.

Connie Smith:

And they said, if you're ever in this area of Israel, please come and stay with us. And, oh, we had such a wonderful time. And here they were. Their 2 oldest children are in the army here, and we got to see them in their uniforms and their their rifles and all of that. And, oh, it was just such a wonderful statement.

Connie Smith:

And the people just said, go. I was no. Brett

Mike Banker:

where you, that's where you won your Oscar?

Connie Smith:

That's where I went. But that's number 1, I was a woman. I was with a man, so I wasn't really suspect in any way. He was, but but the questions then just stopped because this ditzy woman couldn't have been a threat to anybody.

Mike Banker:

So kind of when you're, telling all these stories, I had, my equivalent to the motorcycle man. I had a story like that. Mhmm. 1st couple months, I was in China. We were in Tianjin.

Mike Banker:

I took the kids skating at the Japanese department store. They had a skating rink indoors and bought tickets, and they skated. And when they were done, they got off the ice on time, but people kept butting in front of them. So by the time they turned their skates in, it was pat more than 10 minutes after the hour. So then they, the guy in charge, the ticket guy, wanted to charge us for 2 hours.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. That's true.

Mike Banker:

So I told him what happened, and his English was not very good, but it was clear he wasn't going to change his mind.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

And so then I paid for the second ticket, and I ripped them into pieces. And I threw them in the air so they could fall down like snowflakes to show my protest. Now about 10 minutes later, I realized, you know, there's probably a better way to do that. And so I realized you could have said, oh, so, you know, are you from Tianjin? Is this your hometown?

Mike Banker:

You know? And are your parents do they live here? And, yeah, do you skate, or you just you like to skate too or just, you know, have conversation? Cool. And then then you just say something very gentle, like, is there anything we can do about this these tickets?

Mike Banker:

And then if he said if he doesn't answer yet, then talk a little longer. And

Michelle:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

And, so, anyway, this is an important lesson for me, actually, very early on in China. But, I realized that probably there's not a lot of things he controls in his life. But the one thing he does control is whether this American pays for a second hour of tickets. And so it was a big lesson. And That was very early on, but, I didn't have very many ugly American incidents after that.

Mike Banker:

So But

Connie Smith:

what what, other than building the friendship, how could you have better given him honor and paid the paid the second hour?

Mike Banker:

Well, that that was one of my suggestions. I said, how about can I pay for the tickets but use them on another day? That's what I asked him. So

Michelle:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

And, that was my thought as I could have done that instead. And, because I had to show I had to do something to give him face, basically.

Connie Smith:

That's it.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. And so I I did think through it very carefully within just an hour or so, and, it was a very useful lesson, actually.

Connie Smith:

And when you went to pay it, you might even have said, I see that you thank you for trying to help me resolve this.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

But I see that, in order to, to respect the system and respect you, I will go ahead and pay for that, and I thank you for your help.

Mike Banker:

So I applied this lesson years later. We went to a hotel in Beijing that he's won a raffle, so we got to stay at the Palace Hotel in Beijing. And Sunday morning, we had tickets to eat at restaurant a, but we wanted to go to church, so we wanted to eat at restaurant b instead. So I went up to the counter and asked the night manager. You know?

Mike Banker:

The day manager hadn't arrived yet. I said, can we, you know, can we exchange these tickets for the other restaurant? He said, well, let me check, she said. So she goes back into, you know, be in the back room, stays there a few minutes, comes out and says, no. I'm sorry.

Mike Banker:

We can't do that. And now Denise is hopping mad. So, I we we went and we sat someplace else for a few minutes. I said, okay. It's, 10 minutes to 8.

Mike Banker:

I said, we need to wait 10 minutes. She said, for what? I said, well, for the the day manager to come up. And because the night manager may not feel like they have this authority. And so I said, we'll just wait.

Mike Banker:

And then he said, oh, they didn't even talk to anybody. They just, you know, they just said we can't do it. And so we waited 10 minutes and went to the day manager. And, he talked to the night manager for maybe a minute, but in front of us, not in the backroom. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

And and said, sure. And gave us the tickets, and we went and had our breakfast. And then then he said, oh, we should rewrite, you know, write this guy up, you know, and say he was bad service. I said, no. No.

Mike Banker:

No. No. We should do the opposite. We should thank him for his help and make sure that the day manager gets it gets that that notice because then he'll realize that there's more benefit to saying yes than saying no. Because in Chinese culture, if you don't have authority, you don't if you don't have the authority to decide, you just say no.

Mike Banker:

That's the safe bet.

Connie Smith:

Right. Because if you don't do it right, now it's on all on you.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So I I used my previous experience at the skating rink to, adjust a little bit at the hotel. So, anyway yeah. So relationship is, important.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

It's a short relationship even. It's still important. One other example I thought of was, her name's Ad. She's a Mongolian missionary. And so, Carmen, you'll like this story.

Mike Banker:

She didn't have any status. She was in, Northwest China, and she's working with Muslim women, but she didn't have any status. She was young, single without kids, and she wasn't Muslim, so nobody would listen to her. First of all, no man would listen to her, of course, but but no woman would listen. And then so one day, she said to a group of women, she said, so do you have kids?

Mike Banker:

Yes. So, was it painful? Was childbirth painful? Oh, yeah. So painful.

Mike Banker:

I said, would you like to know why? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. So then she brought them together, and they studied Genesis and about, how women have pain would be increased in birth because of the, the fall.

Mike Banker:

And so, anyway, I thought that was, another time too, they wouldn't listen. And, she said, so do you pray? Oh, yes. So does god answer your prayers? And it was kinda silent.

Mike Banker:

And she says, well, god answers mine. Oh, really? So they're all interested to talk to her now because so she found a way to communicate that overcame her lack of status. And and so, I often think of her how effective she was as a missionary. She's since been, I think, kicked out of China, but she's back in Mongolia.

Mike Banker:

Anyway, good example, I think, though, of status not given, but overcoming it.

Michelle:

Mhmm. It is good.

Connie Smith:

Adapting. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

A third example now this isn't from personal experience. I just heard this story. That's what I'd have to say to the Matzah people. Right?

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

That's secondhand information. So this missionary went to China, and he was trying to find out what makes a good missionary. Now, Connie, maybe you told me this story. I don't know where it came from. And, so he went to this group of people and that group of people.

Mike Banker:

And most of the time, the answer he got was, we don't know, but there's one missionary we love. And so he didn't think to ask the question why at the time, but he went back and said, so why did you love him? He said, well, he's one of us. Well, what made him one of us? Well, when his mother died, he had to go back to America for the funeral, and he didn't go to his fellow American friends.

Mike Banker:

He came to us and asked us if we would buy him a ticket to go

Connie Smith:

home. Wow.

Mike Banker:

Wow. And so Wow. This being being part of the group, there's a lot of things that go into that. There's

Connie Smith:

Very lot of things.

Mike Banker:

You have to be very careful, though. You don't set up this us and them kind of, environment when you're ministering among people. So your your comment about finding a place of acceptance and even kinship. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

So that's a that one, I think of that so often. I know so many missionaries who nobody would say that of them.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

They and when we tell them the stories they share in PR, the stories they share with us, they said, what? You know, we've been here forever, and nobody shared those kind of stories with us. They they just don't have this kind of closeness, this kind of kinship kind of, relationship. And, so you have to be quite intentional, I think, in how you do things to establish a good relationship.

Connie Smith:

Another illustration of of that, well, I suppose you'd say prestige. Well, status level of things is, I can think of so many examples of of what Richard did in running this program in in Ethiopia. It was obviously listening to the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying that. But, for instance, when we got a team finally together, he got all of the team, and we went up to Addis, the the capital.

Connie Smith:

And he put them all in a well, I say a decent hotel. And he took them all to the Bible Society, and he had each of them join the Bible society. And so they each got a little pin. They got communications from them. But you could literally almost see them straighten up with confidence that they were members of this prestigious group.

Connie Smith:

And they began to take authority over the translation pro project. I remember one time we put out James, the book of James in in both languages, And, we were doing, they wanted the Bible. They didn't want just the New Testament. So we Richard started them off on a small book. So we did James and Ruth, and that was because those were 2 books that they were having conferences about.

Connie Smith:

So it was in in their mind. So, anyway, when the first, edition, the first thing of James came out now remember their language had also never been put into writing, and it had to be put into a a form of writing that was the same as the national. So you're trying to their national language was in the Hamirik script. So we were trying to force the Hadia and the Kambata languages, their sound system, and to fit into the, the same kind of script. So, anyway, there were bound to be mistakes because it's this is the first time it's ever been written.

Connie Smith:

So, anyway, they they were so much this was their project so much that I can still see them standing outside and and the people around them with their copy. And they're they're they're reading it and the looks on their faces. But one man said to one of the team members, look. Here's an error. You made an error.

Connie Smith:

And I I could just still see this. This team member turned to him and said, well, were you part if you had been part of the, the group that was willing to take the time to check this scripture, then you would not have a you would have found this and not allowed this mistake to be done. So he didn't he didn't own it. He put it back on on the guy. If you'd have been part of this, if you had, been a tester, maybe it wouldn't have been there.

Connie Smith:

So we didn't make a mistake. You did.

Mike Banker:

Wow.

Connie Smith:

Now this was all done in love and but they they owned this program. Richard

Mike Banker:

That pen that that pen from the Bible Society then was, like, status given.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Mike Banker:

And they accepted it and stood up straighter and

Connie Smith:

Oh, yeah.

Mike Banker:

Such a small

Connie Smith:

had confidence. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Richard made a point of the the group of people that sponsored us and, had their names signed to the paper that that got us into the got us the visitor the visa to come, did it, in the in this time of war and struggle and knew that he was putting his life in danger.

Connie Smith:

And sure enough, I don't know that it was because he signed the papers for us. That may have been part of it. But, eventually, he just simply disappeared. But, anyway, Richard made a point of that office of of sending them or delivering to them a monthly report. Richard was honoring their position, and he reported to them.

Connie Smith:

And I remember being in the office, the the first time, with the first time that he had done this, and then we were, there the next time. And this guy greeted Richard with tears streaming down his face. This man, men. And he said, no one in all of these years, no expat has ever reported to me even though I'm in the office that gave them the their visa. Very, very, very interesting.

Connie Smith:

People look at things in different ways no matter what what culture they're in or what or what continuum they're on. People are beautiful. People are precious. And if I get to the point in my life where I can actually believe that I am precious, then I can begin to see that, yes, so is the other person. And I can begin to have an interest in them, and I can choose to to love them.

Connie Smith:

And I don't have to force myself to love them because they are so precious. I've often used the illustration that Hitler was born precious. He was born lovable. He was born worthy, worthwhile of being respected, I mean, not worthy to to get into heaven. He was, he was born competent.

Connie Smith:

He was born, belonging. He had a belonging place here, and he never lost that. But in all the awful, awful, awful decisions that he made in his life, he did not recognize that. And by his behavior, then nobody else did. So he decided that there were some people that were not worth living even.

Connie Smith:

They didn't agree with the categories he set up. So, anyway, enough of my reminiscing. Are there any other comments or any other suggestions or any other, things that you can add to the this list of what we're doing. So tomorrow

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I good question, actually, Connie.

Connie Smith:

Yes. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Alright. So when you work with somebody in sessions with PR, are you kind of running them through this

Connie Smith:

Oh, absolutely.

Mike Banker:

Fixed continuums? Yeah.

Connie Smith:

So I I do this with most anyone that that I run across, and I can see that there is particularly, if I can see there's a hesitancy or a problem or an attitude, and I said, well, where is he from? What's what's what's the problem here, and how can we address it without addressing it?

Mike Banker:

Wow. Very useful. I used to always think about PR all the time. I guess I'd be thinking about basic motivations instead.

Connie Smith:

No. But even in basic, even if this applies, you run across people who don't be who don't wanna be told what to pray. So you ask them, what do you want done with this? For instance, after they've accused. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Now you've got all this pile of stuff, this ugly stuff in front of your heavenly father. What do you want done with it? Why have you put it poured it out in front of him?

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

And what you're looking for, because, hopefully, you have taught it enough that they got it, is that I want I want justice. They did these awful things to me, and I want justice. Because that's basically what we want when we are wounded, when we are hurt by someone. That feeling inside, well, that was that was not right.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So with that question, you're implying not to be so directive

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

But rather to, let ask a question. Yeah. And, actually, you're you're being selective because there could be several answers, but there's one answer in particular you're looking for is I want justice. They might say, also, I don't wanna carry this, and that's fine. K.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Also, are you looking for the justice part? Yeah.

Connie Smith:

What I'm looking for is the common thing about asking even seminary graduates is what do you mean when you say I forgive them?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. My my comment, Connie, was more, general. It wasn't specific to forgiveness. I I understand that part.

Connie Smith:

And Yeah. But Mhmm. This the reason the the reason that I ask these questions and approach it this way

Mike Banker:

Uh-huh.

Connie Smith:

It is a select it it is a more selective way of doing it.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

But it's directive enough in that I'm asking about a specific thing.

Mike Banker:

Right. Yep.

Connie Smith:

Okay? What do you want to do with this?

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And, but I ask these questions so that I know they understand what they're doing.

Mike Banker:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

They do not come out with my exact words. Even in their prayer, they may not express it the exact same way, which is fine.

Mike Banker:

I think, a lot of teaching, they don't really check to see what stuck.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

The way they teach is just swallow, but nobody ever checks to see if they got it. So asking questions like that is so important, so precious.

Connie Smith:

They got it up here, but now we're gonna I'm asking them to use it. And so when you know, what is it that you want done with this stuff? Or they confess and then sit there because their common teaching is you confess, and that's all it takes. Well

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

You have to ask. It's it's not a it's not a surefire thing. It's going to

Mike Banker:

Not everything you tell them sticks. See, that's why it's so important to ask these questions. And, actually, I think I said this before. I would say things, but then I'd see that didn't stick. Right.

Mike Banker:

So it's easy to speak. It's hard to make things stick. And so, these tool these tools, I think, are just so precious, I think, for improving that, stickiness. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

If if nothing else, it helps make us aware of what our approach might be.

Mike Banker:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle:

Okay? Just sort

Mike Banker:

of just scratching our heads and not knowing what So I

Connie Smith:

just sit here, and I I'm very directed by very time. I'm I'm laying it out here with the facts. Okay?

Mike Banker:

You're not as time focused as you you're implying.

Connie Smith:

No. I'm making it as an illustration. So I Oh.

Mike Banker:

Let it all out.

Connie Smith:

I lay it all out. And,

Mike Banker:

then we

Connie Smith:

I asked a question and, you know, why would you do that, or why would you say that, or, why are you putting all this stuff that they did in front of god in the first place? You know, going back to the forgiveness thing. But the answer that most of the time is, what is forgiveness? Well, it's giving it to God. Okay, I say.

Connie Smith:

What do you want him to do with it?

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Does he have a storehouse in which he takes all this stuff and throws it in? What do you want him to do with it? Well, I want him to take care of it. Well, how might he go about doing that? We're told to take it to the cross.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So what do I do? I'm at the cross. Well, you lay it at the cross. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Here's my cross. I've written it on even a piece of paper, and I'm putting it at the end of the cross. What's the what do you what's the purpose of putting it at the cross?

Mike Banker:

What do

Connie Smith:

you yeah.

Mike Banker:

Sure. I totally agree with you, and I think the rest of our safe helpers have to hear this more often. It's easy it's also very easy just to teach things when you're working with somebody in a session. But if you don't ask the questions that you're asking, you really don't know what stuck, and so you don't know how effective it you don't know if it's effective or not. So, there should be something to train safe helpers how how to do this better.

Connie Smith:

Question asking and priming the pump is the most difficult thing to do for newcomers, particularly, new safe helpers, in the area of, lies.

Mike Banker:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Truth.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. Right. Anyway, this is kind of off topic for today, but I just, yeah, this is the way you have to build their confidence. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

But me as a safe helper, my goal is not to have them pray anything that they don't understand why they're praying it.

Mike Banker:

Okay. That's a really good statement. Don't pray anything unless you understand. Yep.

Connie Smith:

Don't do it if you don't understand why you're doing it and what the expected result is.

Mike Banker:

This avoids all that mystical, garbly gook. Like, it's not a shaman repeat after me or, you know, that's

Connie Smith:

it. Right. Yeah. Don't do it just because it's on the list as the next step.

Mike Banker:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

What is the logical reason we're taking this as a next step? Why didn't we take that step first?

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

This whole thing came from a dichotomy not a dichotomistic. Yeah. From my anyway, the the presentation of the steps is a dichotomistic tool.

Mike Banker:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

The understanding of how to use these steps is a holistic point of view. If you're only learning it, even if you're a dichotomist, if you're only learning it because that's that's what steps are there, you will never be able to adapt it. So the goal of the teacher the goal of the safe helper is to help the wholest now to help the dichotomous, understand what's going on enough to be able to put it into the right box. And to help the whole list try to pick out apart from the whole. Oh, and then the dichotomous, you have to teach how to partake it.

Connie Smith:

Now that he's got it in this box and I have these boxes, then how to take that box and relate it to the whole set of boxes? Right. And the the, whole list, you have to help him extrapolate things that need to to be focused on and whether you have them put it in a box or whatever. That's another thing. But so that they are no longer focusing on the forest, but why is what do we have to do with this tree?

Mike Banker:

Maybe this, basic motivation should be done before they do the PR training.

Connie Smith:

Well, you know, now you're talking about something that's never gonna happen.

Mike Banker:

I don't know.

Connie Smith:

I I don't know what you're tried in the beginning. Okay. We tried in the beginning to do the PR teaching with 60 hours so that we could actually teach it and not just present it. Mhmm. And we did that for a lot of, lot of teachings.

Connie Smith:

But then people got so busy that they didn't want to take a whole 60 hours. So we had a team try to teach it, and they did it in 24 hours. And not one of those that they taught it to went on to use it in any way. Yeah. Because it was just presented.

Connie Smith:

It got through the whole syllabus.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

We finally decided that we would not do it, a teaching of it, in less than 30 hours, and that was under dire protest.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree that, a classroom, 30 hours, classroom, 60 hours. I don't even it doesn't matter. It's not enough.

Mike Banker:

In the end, they have to sit side by side with somebody with a with a trainer. It's it's the only way they'll actually catch it.

Connie Smith:

And the only way this this basic motivation stuff is ever going to get down so it's a useful tool that I can just pull out when I want and need it Right. Is going to be through the discussions Yep. Yep. Through the practice of Mhmm. Changing view, changing where you're coming from on your profile, taking both parts, practicing with real people, take a situation and say, okay.

Connie Smith:

This is the profile of the people. How are you going how are you how are they going to go about doing this? Yep. And he said, actually trying to apply it, making mistakes, learning from the mistakes, and trying it again just as you pointed out, trying it again in a little different way, with real people and tweaking it so you have more success because you understand where where you went wrong, so to speak.

Mike Banker:

Right. Yep. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now I think it's rapidly coming to a close.

Mike Banker:

I was gonna say, I think we're at the end. So mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So we have one more set. Now tomorrow is our last day. So do come with all of your questions already. But now take the, either take the, oh, dear, the profile that you have of the 2 of you. And if you find that too hard to work with, then make up 1.

Connie Smith:

But this will not be yours or whoever you chose. This is going to be, just somebody and somebody else. And you're trying to teach the person from one side, and then you're gonna teach the person from the other side of how they can best interact with the one on the and the, other side of the continuum. Does that make sense? So we're we're taking the personal stuff out of this, and now you're you're going to help somebody, else understand what they were need to do.

Mike Banker:

Wow. What a great idea.

Connie Smith:

So it's not gonna be my brother. It's not gonna be my husband. It's not gonna be my son. It's not gonna be anybody I know. The only thing I know about them is that they're this continuum.

Connie Smith:

And this is not going to be a difficult in-depth thing because we don't have enough information to go with. But if they're of this orientation, how are they going to have to adapt? What are they going to have to adapt from, to to understand or to help, to relate to this one from the other side. And then how a is going to have to be relate to b, and then you switch it, and how now we're over this way, and a becomes the second one. And, anyway, I'm running out of steam, and, my thoughts are getting all messy again.

Connie Smith:

And, Carmen, I really do enjoy your questions. You have a great take on things. You have a bit different take on things than some other people that I tried to teach, and it's very refreshing. But it's also very complicated to try to answer your questions because you are in, where you are in reality on the continue in the continuum. You find it very difficult to make conclusions because, number 1, you have a hard time doing hypothetical things.

Connie Smith:

But, also, you need to have every option out there that might be out there before you can make a conclusion. But your conclusion that is made then ends up being, not a, holistic conclusion, but a dichotomistic conclusion. It either ends up being right or wrong, and that makes it difficult for you to grasp the basic concept because you have so much information that you collected in your experience of life that there's always an exception to everything you you try to conclude. This is not a sin. It's not right.

Connie Smith:

It's not wrong. It's not good. It's not bad, But it does make it more difficult for you to answer a or or to to make a definitive conclusion, so to speak.

Mike Banker:

Thank you, Connie, for giving your observation.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

You work very, very hard at understanding, But your mind simply needs more input for you to be able to make a conclusion because your conclusion has to be right, and you don't wanna be wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying it makes it then more difficult, for trying to gain answers to your questions because while we're answering this piece of the question, there's another question that comes up that needs to be answered before you know what to do or where to put this other one and so on and so forth. Not impossible has nothing to do with your desire or your it's simply the way you process, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. It seemed, they I cannot get everything together to to match each other.

Connie Smith:

That's right. And it's and because because there must there might be oh oh, yes. I remember there's another piece of information that contradicts all of this.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Or that adds another way adds another viewpoint.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And that's, see, this is where you you may be very, selective. And I I'm not making a a judgment here, but you may be maybe the struggle is because you are very selective with your dichotomy.

Mike Banker:

Oh, but my result was holistic.

Connie Smith:

Well, that's alright. But your final conclusions in everything is is it right or wrong? Is it black or is it white? You have very, very, very little gray in your world.

Mike Banker:

Oh, that's good to know.

Connie Smith:

I mean, and I'm only going by what I observe. I know nothing about your everyday, behavior or attitudes or anything. But I think I do have a feel for your heart, and I feel your heart is to walk after God and to love people and to bring them to Jesus.

Mike Banker:

Thank you for saying that.

Connie Smith:

And any of these observations I'm making are not meant to be judgmental in any way, shape, or form, But in trying to understand why you are having or not why you are having, but why the understanding of something it's so difficult to come to another to a conclusion and be able to be at peace with it and move on and be able to utilize that.

Mike Banker:

It's interesting to hear your observation and to see the number from the questionnaire. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Well but the questions in that case were perhaps based on things that you do more holistically. You are holist. You are holist. But what

Mike Banker:

was

Connie Smith:

But your conclusions your conclusion see, you're you're

Mike Banker:

You're you're a collector.

Connie Smith:

Yes. You're a collector because you need to see the whole thing, and the whole thing is is the whole thing is either right or wrong.

Mike Banker:

Uh-huh.

Connie Smith:

And the reason you can't decide whether it's right or wrong is because you need all the options that are might be out there, all the all the input that you can get, and you never get enough to make this whole right or wrong.

Mike Banker:

Interesting to hear your observation. I feel like I'm kind of blind to what I'm doing. Yes. I feel like I am doing the, what you described, right and wrong thing.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. And it's very, very difficult for you to say that, that this thing is right or, it's wrong, and the basic thing is a normal thing. When we don't know, then it's very definitely wrong. If it's different than what the categories are already set up. So, anyway, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you.

Connie Smith:

I'm trying to help us all, including yourself, try to understand. You you see, one of the one of the things we have not done yet is to, we have these continuums, but we're going to talk tomorrow, hopefully, about what happens if a person

Mike Banker:

so

Connie Smith:

look at the continuum.

Mike Banker:

There's stuff beyond the continuum. Right?

Connie Smith:

I know. No? When you look at the continuum

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

We've decided that a person is either towards time or towards event and then the dichotomy or holism. Well, what happens? And we have had this. I had a we had a grown man, a beautiful young man of God, a cross cultural worker who was always

Mike Banker:

so, so

Connie Smith:

unfulfilled. Well, he turned out to be, wholest and time. He was not holist in event. He was holist in time.

Mike Banker:

What does that mean?

Connie Smith:

Well, that means that he looked at the world as this big piece, had difficulty picking out the piece that he was trying to deal with, But it was taking so much time. And I needed to be finished with this 15 minutes ago. And I'm I I haven't come to a conclusion yet. I haven't come to a a decision. And I've wasted all this time.

Connie Smith:

But now it's time. I have to go on to something else.

Mike Banker:

He didn't give himself enough time to see the whole thing. Is that the way to say it?

Connie Smith:

No. He he yes. Yes. And to do something with it. He didn't give himself enough time to pick out a piece from the hole.

Connie Smith:

He didn't give it himself enough time to pick out a piece for the whole in order to put it to practice, whether it was, something to say or not say or something to do or not do or whatever. So he was frustrated that he had nothing to do in the amount of time that I have spent looking. So I don't accomplish anything. I have this, I may have this big vision in this holistic picture I see. I see the whole thing, but I haven't been able to take out enough of the pieces to look at to make decisions in the amount of time I have.

Connie Smith:

So I end up not being able to make decisions. I can't complete a task, because I'm also directed. But this holism thing just ruined it all because he wasn't in control of it.

Mike Banker:

So then somebody could see things like he did because he couldn't get to a place to probably felt very alone, I would think too.

Connie Smith:

Yes. And very much a failure. Very much a failure. Failure to what god has asked him to do. A failure in his relationship because he could never get it right, and and just a a complete and utter failure and was ready to go home.

Connie Smith:

Now we didn't do the whole basic motivations model with him, but we helped him to understand what his points of frustration were as we could readily see so that he could go and live his day in relative peaceful and feeling fulfilled and having been not only effective, but efficient.

Mike Banker:

Oh, this is a very abstract example to to understand for

Mike Banker:

because

Mike Banker:

it's hard to imagine what kind of scenario it is.

Connie Smith:

Right. It's very hard for you to imagine. Very hard for you to imagine. Yes.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Okay. I think we should wrap up. Let's see. Carmen, do you wanna just pray for our our day or at this time?

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Connie Smith:

So before that, far as everything is concerned, there's really no homework assignment. Just remember that we're going to be mixing up the, the continuums.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. Yeah. No homework. Yes. Thank you.

Mike Banker:

Let's pray. Father god, we give you thanks for this precious time and learning experience and, fellowship, that you're the one, connecting everything together. Thank you that you give us, enough, especially Connie, enough, energy and, time to stay here with each other, and, you provided all the wisdom and the patience. And thank you for teaching us, with everything that that's from you, we we ask that you send your spiritual revelation and understanding will continue to teach us and help us get rid of the worldly things that, block our knowledge or our understanding of your truth. We ask you to, to watch over the Bali members that, didn't get to participate in the, in the real life teaching that they would, find time to catch up.

Mike Banker:

And, sir, we ask you to give us the wisdom to know how to apply it into our own lives and also to be able to communicate this to others, to teach this teach what we learn to others and be faithful in, what you called us to do. Thank you for, the this, this is the second last day. Protect everyone that we will finish well,

Michelle:

especially,

Mike Banker:

over colleague's life and her health. Yeah. We pray in the name of Jesus. Amen.