'I'm just one of these people that don't pre-plan the sculpture. I don't make models, you see, like you're supposed to.' Douglas shares his passion for stone and why he loves his new studio.
A podcast where artists tell their stories through the materials they choose.
I'm just one of these people that don't pre plan the sculpture. I don't make models, you see, like you're supposed to. I I get the stone and I'm not sure till I have the stone. The stone decided on its limitations in volume how things were gonna start and where they would go so that I could take away the least amount of stone and create the most amount of expression.
Sarah Monk:Hi. This is Materially Speaking, where artists tell their stories through the materials they choose. In this series, we're in an artist community in Italy near a town called Pietrasanta , nicknamed Little Athens because of its tradition for carving marble. We're 15 miles south of the marble mountains of Carrara sandwiched between the sea and pine forest on one side, and olive groves rising up in the hillsides into the Apuan Alps on the other. Today, I'm talking to Canadian sculptor, Douglas Robinson, who's lived in the area since 1979.
Sarah Monk:We met at my home on the hillside above Pietrasanta , towards the end of the day, when the sun was setting over the sea creating a gorgeous pink and orange sky. As we walked around my garden, Douglas's gaze dropped down to the path, and suddenly he was rattling off the names of the stones he saw. Saw. Bardiglio from La Cappello, rossa di Verona, and another red marble called Colomandina. He noticed a tiny lozenge of rossa francesi with white quartz in it, and one cream colored marble called tranny, and then another called boccioni.
Sarah Monk:He hardly paused for breath. He pointed out some red and beige travertine pieces with Carrara white and finally, the local green and white Cipollini from the Apuan Alps.
Douglas Robinson:Douglas Robinson, you know, that's the usual name I go by. Yes. I don't I don't sign my I sign my name with with my initials, but it's but the d is a is a wine glass sideways and it runs through the r. So it's d r with a wine glass. When you reserve stone in a stone yard, I have my own, reservation number.
Douglas Robinson:That's two glasses because that's what I was called when I I would when I was younger here in the Bar Igea, I'd be carrying 2 wine glasses, like, my backup or I'd end up with 2. And so now my sign for when I reserve a stone is 2 wine glasses beside each other. Right?
Douglas Robinson:Yes. Well, I'm an expatriate here in Versilia, Canadian sculptor.
Douglas Robinson:Like many, I came when I was young, to learn more from the artichani, and I had a travel grant from Canada, from Montreal that was to last 7 months and I stretched it to 2 years. I didn't go back home. I just stayed and worked for those 1st 2 years and got work with, Sorensen. So right away, I I became somebody that quickly adapted to this type of environment that was to do with art and culture and using stone as the main expression.
Sarah Monk:And what's what's the attraction of people who who don't know why people come to Pietrasanta? What is the attraction of working as an artist in Pietrasanta?
Douglas Robinson:Well, one of the major facilitators is that because of the marble industry and because there's such a long history of support network for dealing in stone, from cranes to shippers to box makers to toolmakers, these toolmakers were already known around the world first for their tools that were being sold in New York and Chicago and Paris. But they were making them here and they were supplying also the local artists. So if a young artist comes here, all of a sudden they're exposed to not only several 100 types of Italian stone, but also stone shipped here from around the world in blocks to be sliced. So the quantity of choice in this area is exponentially larger than any other place because the history goes back 2000 years of cutting blocks under the quarries and bringing them down by oxcart. So young artists really liked it here because before the euro you might say that, you know, if you had foreign currency you could live pretty well and then you got to meet, people from around the world.
Douglas Robinson:You know, like many places where artists start something then the commercial end takes over and you have to go elsewhere. And it's that's almost occurred.
Sarah Monk:And what medium did you work in before? I mean, when you were at art school, were you a painter or did you
Douglas Robinson:already The the our college of art had this category called general studies. You didn't have to specialize in fine art or graphic art or textile art. You could try everything and that's what I basically stayed with. And at near the near the senior year there, I met a man, Leonard Osterly, and he was Hungarian. He was teaching one course in stone carving and I decided to take that course.
Douglas Robinson:After my second sculpture, they went right into an art gallery. I worked by hand then, but, there was a just a natural feeling for it that happened like just immediately. Without I didn't even think about it so much. I was just making things and, Osterly made sure I got the senior sculptor award for the college and and and most of what I made in his studio went went to was was sold while I was a student. So that was pretty encouraging.
Douglas Robinson:My art academy, the Ontario College of Art, had a painting studio on the Piazza San Croce in Firenze. So there were artists going every every summer to Firenze. And then we got marginally connected to Santa. So a small group of us came here instead of Firenze.
Sarah Monk:So amongst the stone, do you have a what was the stone you first started? Did you start with marble? What was the first attraction? Or do you choose different bits of stone or different types of stone, I should say, for different projects?
Douglas Robinson:I think I think what's exciting is that you have the chance because of the variety, you have such an enormous chance to try out different materials. So, of course, the main body of the rock here is in fact marble from either here or Portugal or Greece or elsewhere, but many other stones come here that are in the limestone neighborhood or a lot of granite comes here from elsewhere, including Canada. And, many, many hard stones from South America and the Nordic countries come here. So if you're somebody who likes granite and likes to work really hard at things, stone that lasts outside well, This is also a wonderful place to choose from in those materials. But I would say most people here, younger artists, would be coming to try out marble and, of course, the Carrara white marble is world famous, you know, maybe after the early white Greek.
Douglas Robinson:But the Carrara white, at its best, it holds huge detail for so if you were in if you're a figurative artist, for example, then, you know, going all the way back to Michelangelo, you know, you look at his work or Bernini's later on. You know, you can carve fingernails in this material and it's gonna stay like that. You can almost, you know, do the image of a cuticle and and find statuario and it stays there. An amazing place to see the the virtuosity of more contemporary artisans is to go to the cemetery of Genoa. The merchants of Genoa were competing from about, you know, 1800 to 19 forties with their family tombs.
Douglas Robinson:And at that time there were hundreds and hundreds of artisans from here all the way up to Gentlemen back who were hired to do one project for several years. And somebody would design something and somebody would make models and then these artisans would go and and make, extraordinary family tombs. The tombs get thematic and full of drama and, spectacular. There are children in that cemetery. There's one little child and it has still has eyelashes made of stone, you know.
Douglas Robinson:And and, it's an amazing thing to see. Even still, La Pieta is an amazing tour de force of Michelangelo because there's, you know, Christ has has his veins just the way we have that are slightly raised through the skin and all that detail. He he did it in that stone from here, you see. So it's a lovely material that is easy to relate to, this fresh, creamy white, and so I think a lot of young people get enamored with it, you know, and really enjoy that material. I used to stay clear of it a lot but because it was kind of too pure.
Douglas Robinson:Though I I've over the years used it up quite a bit. But now I'm coming back to it. And right now I'm working more and more with it.
Sarah Monk:So why did you veer away?
Douglas Robinson:Well, because I I like to try a travertines and colored reds and and browns and there's a beautiful travertine from from Iran that that is a a warm Indian yellow, but it's a but it's a mottled yellow. It's not just one color, you know, but and so those material those materials are beautiful stone, you know. They're they have holes in them. They're travertine but they're very strong material. Just the same.
Sarah Monk:So do you do you generally find a bit of stone and then think what you're gonna do it or do you decide what you want to do and then look for the material to do it with?
Douglas Robinson:It's usually the former. I I get the stone and I'm not sure till I have the stone. That's right. So I I don't I'm just one of these people that don't pre plan the sculpture. I might I might make the odd sketch in my head but that's just an it's just a relationship to ideas in my head and and and it will help organize some direction.
Douglas Robinson:But I don't make models, you see, like you're supposed to. But since I don't get so many commissions, I'm more free to produce whatever I want, that just go to gallery or go to a private show, you see. I have another thing that I that I'm making now and it's and and and it's called Naamah and her friends, which and Naamah is the wife of Noah. And she's on her haunches pressed up on the side of this animal that the head is a mountain goat, a mountain sheep, and the back of that animal is facing the other way is a porcupine. Those are the 2 main animals if you can believe it.
Douglas Robinson:And she's pressed up against them with her arms open like this, and on her left is a little dog or could be a little sheep under her arm, and on her right hand is a kingfisher facing her hand. And around the other side, there's a there's an owl flying straight out of the flank of the porcupine, a little owl, flying at you. And across from the owl is a in relief on the flank of the mountain goat on the other side is a deer with antlers turning and looking at the owl. But this woman, Nami, she has 2 braids and they go over the top of the animal. One was this way, one that way, and one braid turns into the tail of a whale.
Douglas Robinson:And the deer is looking at that and there's a tiny bird flying into the antler of the deer. So this is a big narrative. Right? But I didn't know anything of that was going to happen. I didn't plan it.
Douglas Robinson:I had the stone, the whole stone spoke. It was a chunk, it wasn't a block. If this had been a a a 6 sided flat surface block, there's no way any of this would have happened. This was a rough chunk that went to a point and when I saw it, and even Georg says, I see a head I see a head of an animal in that. I said, yeah.
Douglas Robinson:He said, I I know what you're gonna do. I said, yeah. Yeah. I I'm gonna do an animal but I didn't know what. And then when when when these animal things start, instead of doing one thing, I usually they're they're going to be met met metamorphic they're gonna be, trans go in transition.
Douglas Robinson:Metamorphosis. Yeah.
Sarah Monk:I guess I always feel how nerve wracking it must be with marble because you can't go back without some other forms of art. You can make a misstep.
Douglas Robinson:You can shrink it and go ahead still that way. But but you have to be careful near the end of something that you're doing. That's right. Because if you've got a certain there's limitations right away. That and I am I'm at that I'm at that place with her because she has to be really correct.
Douglas Robinson:The other the other animals could be a little rougher. It doesn't matter. But she's the theme so the expression has to be it has to be alive and that part is really tricky. The surface of her body has to be very very clean. The other details near her, that will depend on the edge surface of how she looks, you see.
Douglas Robinson:So when I know the final finish of the neck of the mountain sheep, then I know where where her braid and the neck of that animal meets. I know where that level is. But you don't know that until the animals are done. Right? Or you have to keep going around the sculpture and working all all the layers together because if you didn't, you wouldn't be able to come to where I'm going.
Douglas Robinson:And that's why models if I was to make a model of this, the whole idea would never be what the sculpture is now. This isn't a big stone. You know, my little bird flying into the, flying into the antler is no bigger than your fingernail.
Sarah Monk:Just going back to what you said when we were chatting earlier about, it's one thing why one comes here, but why do you stay?
Douglas Robinson:Well, I did I did leave in the nineties. Like when the when the euro started, let's say in 2000, everything went up about 20, 20, 23, 25%. And that that was really hard on people. I left and went to Vancouver Island, which was okay because I I learned a lot. I worked in wood a lot out there, beautiful yellow cedar.
Douglas Robinson:Canada, I can't really let go of when it comes to being in in in the in the rural nature part of it, the forested country part of it. It's part of who I am. And so when I go in it today, it's wonderful. And luckily, we have this summer cottage on this spectacular lake. There's no one on the lake, and it's 10 miles long and 3 miles wide.
Douglas Robinson:And I go out in a canoe, and you think it's your own lake. There's nobody there except you, and nature and the fall trees' colors. You'd love it. But then I moved back to Ontario and I had my own house and studio for about 5 or 6 years, and I realized that, I was too isolated. I was working in my own studio.
Douglas Robinson:And it and it's best if you're working in stone to have at least 2 allies at 2 or 3 people. Because there are maneuvers you're going to do that you shouldn't be doing them by yourself because we're dealing with a lot of weight. And in fact, it happened to me at my own studio, in Canada. I was going to take a stone off the floor and put it on a cavaleto, a work a work table. And I decided I could lift it, by myself in one go.
Douglas Robinson:But it would be like those the the the the weightlifters, like the clean jerk, you know, where you have to heaped it up and get it up. You can't hesitate. And I picked the stone up in one go and I I thought I could get it onto the table but I only got it on the edge of the table and it came back on me and pushed me right to the ground and sat on my chest. I had to push it off me. I didn't break anything, but I was in shock because I was so excited to go to work.
Douglas Robinson:That's why I didn't, I didn't be bothered to go ask my neighbor who was a glassblower blower just just a few minutes away. I I was gonna do it by myself. Well, because of that, I lost a month's work. I had to leave and go away. I couldn't come back for I I was like, my whole body went in was in shock for a couple of weeks.
Douglas Robinson:And, I couldn't believe how stupid I was. And and, that's what happens when you work by yourself in stone and then you start thinking you're gonna cut corners. So those are the reasons, you know, working alone too much, I was missing the ambiance here. I was missing the association of other professionals, carvers. And, I really wanted to come back.
Sarah Monk:Having recently moved into a new studio, I wanted to know how Douglas felt about it. How does it feel?
Douglas Robinson:Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. You will wait till you see this place. It's just so wonderful.
Sarah Monk:What's special about it?
Douglas Robinson:Well, we're back on a river. So behind the studio there's no one and nothing. A big open space and the front is an olive orchard that comes right up to the studio on three sides. The building has, glass on three sides. Very large windows on three sides and all the windows are frosted.
Douglas Robinson:So you stand in there on a bright day, it's luminous but soft. The light in Tuscany, you see, that's what painters talk about a lot and I used to wonder, you know, because in different parts of the world there is different light And I and I didn't understand that at first because I was thinking, well, why the atmosphere of the English air or sky, it can't be so different from the Netherlands, can it? Or can it or France or Italy or well, the light bounces off these hills and these mountains and this sea and it creates its own light. And it creates its own light because of the particles that come off the plants. Even the olive trees would create their own reflective light.
Douglas Robinson:So it's different here than elsewhere.
Sarah Monk:So we're in Douglas's studio.
Douglas Robinson:So the sun comes over the hills where you are at Montejide. You know, pretty much just left there. And then it sets just over here. So all day long, we have this light on this side of that studio. I love it.
Douglas Robinson:It's great. Because you can work really early or work really late and run away at noon if you wish.
Sarah Monk:And how did you find it?
Douglas Robinson:I found it because I was riding my bicycle across the river to my old studio, which was just up there. And I saw this building tucked in the olive trees, and I knew right away there were nobody was using it. I could just tell by the feeling because this used to be a much busier, marble, company years ago. They might have had 5 or 6 or 7 workers, but now they're down to 3.
Sarah Monk:And, and what does it mean to you having the studio?
Douglas Robinson:Well, may me for me, it means because I live in the neighborhood is to have these olive trees. I can't live without them anymore, and so they're my friends. And now that I can live amongst them, I I feel that I can work better. You know? I can go into the shade with them or be out here in the sun by the river.
Sarah Monk:Can I have a look inside? Yes.
Douglas Robinson:Georg Georg likes to use these ancient medieval tripods for moving heavy stone because then we don't need a forklift. We can we can move some very heavy things with those things and, we're the only ones now that have that kind of medieval hardware. We do have something more modern but it's not here that's fine.
Sarah Monk:Now this looks like your work. Beautiful. Is this you? Yes. Very nice.
Sarah Monk:So it's really light here. I can see why you love it. And how warm is it in the winter?
Douglas Robinson:Well, it would it actually is surprising because of the sun coming in, but we we we do have a handmade stove that we might set up in the over there in the winter. Georges old handmade stove, you still have it. It's just sitting there. You know, it's a real barrel, so it's handmade.
Sarah Monk:Oh, yeah.
Douglas Robinson:You can throw a big log in that.
Sarah Monk:Mhmm. You start out here and then move over there when the sun changes?
Douglas Robinson:Or If I'm roughing out with a diamond saw, we we tend to rough out and make a lot of dust on the other side. Mhmm. And I started this sculpture here on the other side early this week, and I moved it here yesterday because now I'm just fine tuning it. I'd rather I'd rather be right here. I'd like to look at the mountains and the trees.
Sarah Monk:Wow. You got a great view. So you're almost in the middle of an olive grove.
Douglas Robinson:We're e we are in an olive grove, and I have oil from these trees because the family gave us some oil, and it was spectacular.
Sarah Monk:And it's nice having the rest of the marble workers next door.
Douglas Robinson:They're right there. If we need a large crane, they're happy to help us. So they're they're they're really happy. These these Marmesti are happy to have artists next door to them because they're working marble, and and we're working marble in a different way.
Sarah Monk:So tell me again, what was the purpose of this building in the olden days?
Douglas Robinson:They had these large polishing machines with buffers. You would buff up, all the marble and granite and make it shine. And so it was creating fine powder. And so here, all the floor would be covered and you just hose the whole floor and there would be 3 exits, goes into a canal, and goes into a recycling pond. So that's special for a studio.
Sarah Monk:I was talking with someone yesterday, and we came upon the subject of Bari Jaya. Yes. And we'd spoken a little bit about it. Could you tell me who was there in your day and what it meant to you?
Douglas Robinson:Yes. The bargia. Well, it was the artist center where you you would go after work and meet practically everybody that was connected to Pietrasanta. And Sam, of, Studio Sam was he was always there like a host later on in the day. And any artist that he'd never met before, he would always offer them a glass of grappa.
Douglas Robinson:It was Durigur to have a grappa. Yeah. R. J. It was Sem.
Douglas Robinson:And what and he was he was giving away to friends and artists so much grappa that the company that stocked the grappa in that bar was called Grappa Giulia. They sent an agent to check out how come Pietrasanta was selling more Grappa Giulia than any place in Italy. They didn't they didn't understand it. Where is Pietrasanta and what is this barrigeia? And the agent shows up and sees this tiny little bar and couldn't understand anything.
Douglas Robinson:How could they be selling more of their own grappa than anybody in the country? It's because Sem was giving it all away. It's just a little bar. It's called the Gato Niro today, you know, but it was always packed with everybody. It was very fun.
Sarah Monk:Can you remember the names of some of the bigger artists that you met that then back in those days?
Douglas Robinson:Well, the very first person that I ever, ever knew that came by there was Noguchi, Esteban. So, you know, when it comes to people of of of renowned, Noguchi passed by, and and, you know, French artists like Ipustiki would come by. Sorensen would come by then when he was here then, and and, there were many different types of artists from all over the world.
Sarah Monk:That looks like Sam up there.
Douglas Robinson:That is Sam up there. He was an artisan. He was a professional artisan. He he they say he made one of the best, Pietas ever, but he was really top notch, sculptor of figurative ecclesiastic work, any kind of work. And at some point in his life, he'd reached that apex, I think, of skill, and then he wanted to just run and and and and promote a studio that dealt with world art and contemporary art, and so he did that.
Douglas Robinson:He was a he was extremely wonderful and gregarious person and, truly supportive of the artist. For me, the more complex is actually to make things simpler. To make a story seems easier for me in some ways to make an actual like a literary story. But to make a strong semi abstract work out of no plans ahead, that's a real challenge.
Sarah Monk:So thanks to Douglas Robinson. You can see his work on his website at douglasrobing sundashsculpture.com. Editorial thanks to Guy Dowsett. For photographs of all the work discussed in this series, follow us on Instagram, or visit our website, materiallyspeaking.com, and join our mailing list to hear about upcoming episodes.