The Discipline of Forgiveness

On this episode of The Lead On Podcast, Jeff Iorg, president of the SBC Executive Committee, discusses the discipline of forgiveness as an essential practice for ministry leaders. Drawing from Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 18, he explains how extending forgiveness frees leaders from bitterness, releases them from past baggage, and sustains long-term effectiveness in ministry.

Creators and Guests

Host

Jeff Iorg

President, SBC Executive Committee

What is Lead On Podcast?

Ready to hone your leadership skills and unlock your full potential? Tune in to the Lead On Podcast, where Jeff Iorg dives deep into Biblical leadership.

Hosted by SBC Executive Committee President Jeff Iorg, this dynamic podcast provides insight for seasoned executives, aspiring leaders, or those in ministry who are simply passionate about personal growth. The Lead On Podcast offers actionable, practical tips to help you navigate the complexities of ministry leadership in today's ever-changing world.

From effective communication and team building to strategic decision-making and fostering innovation, each episode is packed with valuable lessons and inspiring stories to empower you on your leadership journey.

Put these principles into practice and Lead On!

Jeff Iorg: 00:55

Welcome to the Lead On podcast. This is Jeff Iorg, the president of the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, continuing our conversation about practical issues related to ministry leadership. Today on the podcast, I wanna talk about a leadership discipline that is not often portrayed in that light or with that phrasing, but I think is a discipline that leaders must master and practice. I call it the discipline of forgiveness. Leaders must be good at forgiving others and must practice leadership really as a spiritual discipline or as a disciplined part of our relationships with others.

Jeff Iorg: 01:38

Now, it's interesting in Matthew chapter 18 that there is a well known passage of scripture which is often used by churches and ministry leaders to talk about how to handle a conflict appropriately. You know, it's the it's the Matthew 18 model where you go to your brother, and then if that person doesn't listen, you take another person. And if that doesn't if that doesn't suffice, you take it to the church. You you know that that pattern. But many people do not continue reading to what happens next in scripture.

Jeff Iorg: 02:12

Because on the heels of Jesus teaching about restoring sinful brothers, Peter asked Jesus an important question about forgiveness. It was a direct question that emerged out of Jesus' previous teaching about confronting problems or sins or shortcomings in people's lives. It was a direct question, and the question itself hinted of Peter's willingness to to go the extra mile as he as he understood it, to demonstrate God's grace toward others. Peter asked, Lord, how many times could my brother sin against me and I forgive him?

Jeff Iorg: 02:57

As many as seven times? You know,

Jeff Iorg: 03:01

the number seven often communicates fullness or completeness, you know, like the seven days of creation or seven days of the week, you get the idea. Since the Sabbath is every seventh day, seven is also often equated with worship or godliness or righteous living. So when Peter asked about forgiving seven times, he was sort of hinting about how godly or spiritual or, let me say it this way, magnanimous he was being. Also, rabbinic law required forgiveness to be granted three times. So Peter's offer reflected his growing understanding of God's grace and his willingness to set aside the law or supersede or surpass the law.

Jeff Iorg: 03:48

He'd also learned by watching Jesus relate compassionately to people in need.

Jeff Iorg: 03:55

So in light of all of that, Peter probably considered his offer of forgiving seven times to be remarkable. As I said, magnanimous, incredible even,

Jeff Iorg: 04:10

especially in light of the rabbinic standard and Jesus' example and his references to his own righteousness. But you won't be surprised that Jesus had a different perspective.

Jeff Iorg: 04:25

He told Peter to forgive 70 times seven times. Wow. Now, one person actually tried to convince me that this passage was supposed to be interpreted literally and that we were supposed to forgive another person 490 times, but no more. Well, doesn't that kinda miss the point? I mean, Jesus is obviously here speaking metaphorically and, with hyperbole.

Jeff Iorg: 05:04

He's using a number that's designed to, if you want

Jeff Iorg: 05:07

to say it this way, blow Peter's mind. He's not saying, you know, Peter, you need to keep account.

Jeff Iorg: 05:14

Now, if your wife offends you, you can forgive her, but keep account.

Jeff Iorg: 05:22

Because when you get up to about 488, you're gonna need

Jeff Iorg: 05:25

to warn her that she's on your last, last nerve of forgiveness. And pretty soon, you're gonna stop forgiving her. Same thing her back to you. Same thing you with your church members or with other believers or even with your children. Forgive.

Jeff Iorg: 05:43

Seven times seven, four ninety? Keep a count. Don't go over that. And once

Jeff Iorg: 05:48

you hit four ninety, you're justified in not forgiving any longer. Well, while the brother tried to make the case to me that that's what this passage meant, I think he missed the point.

Jeff Iorg: 05:59

Jesus multiplied Peter's generous offer to forgive seven times to demonstrate the extravagant nature of God's forgiveness. God forgives us, and he expects us to extend that same forgiveness to others.

Jeff Iorg: 06:18

In fact, Jesus followed this startling statement about unlimited forgiveness with a parable illustrating his point. Now, you can find that parable in Matthew 18 beginning in verse 23 down through chap verse 35. I'm not going to read that extended passage of scripture. You're probably familiar with it. Summarizing it though, the story goes like this.

Jeff Iorg: 06:42

A king wanted to settle accounts with his servants, so he called in a servant who owed him 10,000 talents. Now, I've done the math on that. It works out to about sixteen thousand years of back pay. Now, you might say, well, that's unrealistic. That could never happen.

Jeff Iorg: 07:00

That's exactly the point. Jesus is telling a parable. He's making up a story with outrageous or outlandish elements to overwhelmingly establish his point that this man, this servant, owed this king an unbelievable debt.

Jeff Iorg: 07:19

He was unable to pay, no possibility. So the king ordered his family and his possessions sold and promised to put him into prison to satisfy what he owed. Now you say, prison? Yeah. Debtors' prison where you go there and work and the money you make goes to satisfy your debt.

Jeff Iorg: 07:39

Well, the servant begged for more time. He promised to pay off the debt in full. He asked for mercy. And you know how the parable goes. The king had compassion on him and forgave the debt.

Jeff Iorg: 07:55

Then the servant went out looking for people who owed him money. You see, he also needed to collect. So he found a fellow slave who owed him a 100 talents. Now, I've done the math on this one. That's about three months back wages.

Jeff Iorg: 08:12

Now have have you ever been behind on your bills? Of course, you have.

Jeff Iorg: 08:17

You ever missed a car payment? Yeah. Ever missed a rent check?

Jeff Iorg: 08:20

Sure. Ever were a little

Jeff Iorg: 08:22

slow to pay your light bill? Of course, you might have been

Jeff Iorg: 08:24

at some point in time. All this happens. It just happens. You fall behind a little bit, you can catch up. You can work some overtime.

Jeff Iorg: 08:33

You can find a side job. You can cut back on some of your other expenses, but

Jeff Iorg: 08:38

being behind just a couple of three months is not an insurmountable debt. But yet, that's what this man found himself in, this debt of a 100. And so, this fellow servant who called in this fellow who owed him the 100 talents demanded payment. Bible says he grabbed him and started choking him. When the second servant begged for more time or mercy, the first servant refused and had him tossed into prison.

Jeff Iorg: 09:08

The other servants standing around saw what happened and reported it to the king, and the king

Jeff Iorg: 09:15

was livid. He called in the first servant, rebuked him for his duplicity, and had him thrown into prison. And the conclusion of this parable is remarkable. Jesus said, so my heavenly father will also do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from his heart. Now, without bogging down in too much more of the detail of the parable, it's easy to see the clear principle that Jesus has established.

Jeff Iorg: 09:52

Extravagant forgiveness prompts extravagant forgiveness.

Jeff Iorg: 09:59

Just as God has forgiven you,

Jeff Iorg: 10:03

you must learn to forgive others. And Jesus made a special effort to teach Peter this principle. Why? Because every leader must learn the discipline of forgiving others. Brothers and sisters, forgiveness is a survival skill for leadership effectiveness.

Jeff Iorg: 10:30

Without it, you'll find yourself descending

Jeff Iorg: 10:34

into bitterness, anger, frustration, and broken relationships. Now later in their relationship, Peter would actually fail Jesus and himself be able to experience the profound truth taught by this parable. Look, leaders fail. They fail God and they fail others. And yes, they are sometimes unjustly wronged by others and even treated unfairly by others.

Jeff Iorg: 11:05

But in all of this, learning to forgive is the essential response in these situations.

Jeff Iorg: 11:14

Now, when you're preparing to take on the mantle of leadership responsibility in God's kingdom, as a younger leader, you may have to grant forgiveness to people for wounds inflicted in your past that are impacting your present and will impact your future leadership effectiveness. You know, many of you younger leaders did did not grow up in committed Christian families or in healthy churches, And you may have baggage from past relationships, and this baggage may come from relationships where you had deep pain inflicted on you. You you may have been the victim of sexual sin, like abuse or incest or date rape. You you may have been scarred by an absentee parent or divorce in your upbringing. You may have had to deal with the opposite extreme of parents who placed unrealistic demands on you or a family that was abusive or difficult in ways that may have seemed from the outside to be healthy and whole, but on the inside you know the difficulty you had.

Jeff Iorg: 12:21

You may have emerged from a dysfunctional church where leaders were abusive or perhaps members were not held accountable for their actions. Look, if you're a younger leader just coming into ministry leadership, all these things I've just described may be a part of your past, and they all can impact your ministerial effectiveness now and your leadership capacity for the future. That's why it's essential that you learn early on in your leadership journey the discipline of forgiveness for people who've wronged you in the past. I have one younger leader in mind right now who was reluctant to respond to God's call to ministry leadership. I met this young man while he was in college.

Jeff Iorg: 13:04

He was struggling profoundly with the tension of whether or not he would say yes to God's call to ministry. It seemed clear to all of us standing around the periphery of his life that God was clearly calling, but he had a roadblock to his yes. Eventually, he and I had a enough of a relationship that we had a meaningful conversation. And I discovered that what was holding him back was the anger and bitterness he was holding against a former church who had actually been abusive to his father who had been their pastor. He knew what he had been through as a young man.

Jeff Iorg: 13:48

He knew what his father and mother had endured in that church and ultimately the termination they received there.

Jeff Iorg: 13:56

And he knew how painful that had been, and he was saying to himself, I'm unwilling to put myself and my future family in line for similar abuse. Now it's interesting about this this young man because as we talked about it

Jeff Iorg: 14:15

and as I listened to his story and thought about what he

Jeff Iorg: 14:18

had lived through, I also reflected on his father who I also knew and the continual progress his father had made in ministry leadership after this horrific time in his life earlier on. And so I said to this young man, what's your father doing today? He said, well, you know

Jeff Iorg: 14:37

my dad. My my father's a pastor.

Jeff Iorg: 14:39

I said, oh, okay. So your father was treated badly, forcefully terminated, and he found a way to forgive the people who had done that to him and to return to pastoral ministry and to continue to serve faithfully? He said, yeah. Yeah, he did.

Jeff Iorg: 15:04

I just smiled and sat there. And my young friend finally said, I've gotta do the same thing, don't I? And I smiled and said, look, you'll have to decide if God is calling you. But if you're asking me for outside, counsel or input, it seems pretty clear that God is calling you to pastoral ministry. But the only way you're gonna say yes to that calling is if you practice the discipline of forgiveness for all the people who wronged your family.

Jeff Iorg: 15:34

And if you can see in the model of your own father, someone who's done this as a ministry leader and moved on, then perhaps you can get past this. This story has a good ending. This young man did start practicing the discipline of forgiveness. And while it was a journey, it was a journey he successfully completed over the next few years. And today, he's a pastor leading a very healthy church and ministering the gospel of grace and forgiveness.

Jeff Iorg: 16:04

And part of his story is what God did in his life in healing him and restoring his confidence in church and church people and giving him the grace to forgive those who'd wronged their family and to move on. So you may have been wronged in your past. You may be using that as an excuse to either not respond to God's call to ministry leadership or as a young leader, being reluctant to go forward in ministry leadership. Put that behind you. Extend forgiveness to the people in your past and be set free and move forward in ministry.

Jeff Iorg: 16:40

I'm thinking about another young leader. This time, a young woman who came to our seminary. She was obviously gifted, humble, passionate, committed. But as we got to know her, my wife and I, she shared with us that prior to coming to seminary, she had been in what she considered a very meaningful and spiritually focused relationship with a young man that she thought would ultimately become her husband. But he had wronged her and ended their relationship in some in a very destructive way.

Jeff Iorg: 17:13

And so, she had come to seminary harboring this bitterness and anger toward this man and what he had done to her and how he had ended their relationship. And frankly, we had to help her see that she had a roadblock, if you will, to healthy relationships, not just healthy romantic relationships, but healthy relationships of any kind because she was going to have a very difficult time establishing trust with anyone in a ministry leadership responsibility until she resolved her lack of forgiveness for this man and what he had done to her. It was a journey for her as well, but this story also has a good ending. This young woman came to a place of forgiveness, processed through what it really meant to forgive this this man, and then moved on into a healthier place of ministry. She went on to do ministry as a single woman and then met a man.

Jeff Iorg: 18:07

And that was a bit of a struggle because she had some of those old memories come back, but she got through those, committed her life to a man that has been her husband now for a while, and they've been faithfully serving the Lord together. So I'm saying today that if you are a younger leader and you've had in your past some things that have happened to you where you've been wronged and you're holding on to bitterness or anger or resentment, lack of trust, broken relationships, That's gonna poison not only who you are now, but it's gonna keep you from the effectiveness God wants you to have going forward. Practice forgiveness so that you can move forward. The solution in both of these situations was forgiveness. The first person I've just shared about had to forgive the abuse that his father and his family endured, and the second had to forgive a guy who had jolted her and broken a relationship in a very painful way.

Jeff Iorg: 19:08

Forgiving in these situations set this brother and this sister free from the bad situation in their past, ended the control that situation had over them in the present, and cut off the impact it might have limiting their future effectiveness. Listen, when you get rid of the baggage like this from your past, it ends the control that other people have over you and releases you to go forward. A few years ago, I was at the seminary and we took a donor and friends trip to Israel. We were going to pass out of, Jordan and Israel, and the border was very tense at that particular time. And so the buses were not allowed to cross the border.

Jeff Iorg: 19:55

And so in order to cross the border, you had to pull up, unload everything off your bus, put it through a metal detector, walk it over a bridge, put it through another metal detector, and then put it on a bus in the other country. Alright. It's an it's an annoyance, but it can be done. So our two buses pulled up to the border. I hopped off, got my suitcases, got my carry ons, went through the metal detectors across the bridge, through the metal detectors, and onto the bus.

Jeff Iorg: 20:19

Turned around, looked back across the bridge, and I saw about 75 mostly senior adults standing over there trying to get themselves organized. And I thought, we are going to be here until the Lord returns. So I went back across the bridge and started loading up people's baggage and hauling it through the metal detectors over the bridge, through the metal detectors, and under the bus. And I did this time after time after time. Now we were well into the trip, and all these dear sweet grandmas and grandpas had been buying up stuff for their grandkids, and so I'm hauling across boxes and extra suitcases and all kinds of trinkets.

Jeff Iorg: 20:57

I'm thinking to myself after about the tenth trip, I am

Jeff Iorg: 21:01

ready to start throwing the baggage off of this bridge. Now because I'm a preacher, the spiritual illustration of that stuck with me, and that's exactly what I'm talking about to you on the podcast today. If you as a leader are not able to forgive people in your past, you are lugging around their baggage and you

Jeff Iorg: 21:28

need to throw it off the bridge.

Jeff Iorg: 21:31

You need to say, Lord, I forgive this person for what they did to me, and I am no longer gonna lug this baggage around in my life and let them dictate my present or my future effectiveness. It's time to throw the baggage off the bridge. And when you do this, it's amazing. The control that this past brokenness has over you is eliminated. Do you

Jeff Iorg: 21:59

know that when you don't forgive another person, they have a control over you? It's sort of insidious and persistent. Let tell you what I mean. I have had this experience where I'm driving through LA on the freeway, and I'm thinking about how I wanna get even with somebody who's wronged me, somebody who blogged against me, somebody who said something bad about me, somebody who criticized my seminary when I was back at Gateway. And I look up, and I'm three exits past where I intended to get off because my mind has been preoccupied by what the person did to me.

Jeff Iorg: 22:34

Same thing happens sometimes. I'm sitting at my computer, and I'm mulling over some past offense, some bitterness I'm holding onto, some revenge I'm plotting. And I look up and I realize an hour's gone by, and I haven't gotten any productive work done.

Jeff Iorg: 22:49

It's happened to me at night where I go

Jeff Iorg: 22:51

to bed and I lay there and I think about it. I think about what someone said or what someone did or what's or something that happened and how I'd like to get even. And I'm mulling over my options and thinking about the possibilities and wishing that I could put this

Jeff Iorg: 23:04

in an email or this on social media or this in a letter. And I look over at the

Jeff Iorg: 23:09

clock, and it's 03:00 in the morning.

Jeff Iorg: 23:11

And someone is robbing me of my sleep and my productivity the following day because I won't forgive. Brothers and sisters, especially those of you that are younger leaders, if this is something in your past, something that's happened, that is you're holding onto it and you don't want to grant forgiveness, I'm imploring you today, practice the discipline of forgiveness and move on.

Jeff Iorg: 23:43

Now the hard reality is you gotta learn this discipline because it's not gonna weigh in your life. The longer you lead, it seems like the more people will come along that have a critical word about this or a negative word about that or some corrective that they need

Jeff Iorg: 23:56

to offer you about something related to your ministry. Criticism and being and being attacked and have your weaknesses pointed out, your deficiencies put on public display, It seems like it's just part of what it

Jeff Iorg: 24:12

means to be in ministry leadership

Jeff Iorg: 24:13

today. All of these things have to be endured. They always hurt. They're painful. And these wounds, if they're not

Jeff Iorg: 24:25

properly treated, can fester into emotional sores, poisoning your leadership relationships and negating your leadership influence.

Jeff Iorg: 24:35

The healing balm for all

Jeff Iorg: 24:38

of these ongoing challenges that we face as ministry leaders is forgiveness. And I mean forgiveness applied lavishly

Jeff Iorg: 24:46

and often. You know, learning to forgive others like this is a spiritual discipline. It's something that you must purpose to do. It's almost transactional in the

Jeff Iorg: 24:57

sense that you must decide to do it, apply it in the situation, make it effective in the moment, and then keep practicing it over and over until its full effect

Jeff Iorg: 25:07

is felt. You have to learn

Jeff Iorg: 25:09

to forgive others in leadership when they've sinned against you, when they've wronged you, when they've done actual things to you that are actually harmful and hurtful. You have to learn to forgive others whether they ask you for it or not. You have to learn to forgive quickly before any root of bitterness is sown in your spirit, and you have to learn to forgive repeatedly. Isn't that back to the beginning of the podcast, that 70 times seven

Jeff Iorg: 25:37

thing? Man, forgiving people repeatedly when revenge would be so much sweeter. And finally,

Jeff Iorg: 25:54

you have to forgive people who simply disappoint you, fellow Christians that you thought were your friends and supporters and colleagues and peers, who for one reason or the other,

Jeff Iorg: 26:06

turn against you. Now, all of this today, this discipline of forgiveness, rests on a basic and profound reality. You are able to forgive others because God has forgiven you.

Jeff Iorg: 26:27

That's where it all begins. God has forgiven you, and because he has forgiven you, you now have the capacity to forgive others. In fact, not only the capacity, but

Jeff Iorg: 26:40

the obligation. You say, well, I know that God has forgiven me, but but I have

Jeff Iorg: 26:46

a hard time accepting that some days. My rebellion, my moral failures, my ethical lapses, these things in my life that I know fall short of God's standard, I know God says he forgives me, but I

Jeff Iorg: 27:00

have a I have a hard time accepting it. Listen, when you refuse to accept that God has forgiven you Now this is gonna be hard, so listen. You are arrogant and you are an idolater. You say, how so? Because God has pronounced you forgiven.

Jeff Iorg: 27:21

Through your relationship with him, through Jesus Christ, he is the atoning sacrifice for your sin. He's made redemption possible in your life. He has transformed you into a new creature. You are forgiven. For you to say, well, know, but I just can't forgive myself,

Jeff Iorg: 27:39

That makes you an arrogant idolater

Jeff Iorg: 27:43

because you have put your standards above God's. You've put your emotions in a place of greater authority than his truth.

Jeff Iorg: 27:55

You have become in that moment an arrogant idolater.

Jeff Iorg: 28:01

Come down off your spiritual high horse and humble yourself and say, yes, God has forgiven me. Case closed, I am forgiven. And then, and

Jeff Iorg: 28:10

then, out of that remarkable resource of the forgiveness that God has poured into your life, you can forgive others. Look, you have this capacity,

Jeff Iorg: 28:28

not because you have to work up some spiritual energy or not because you have to play some mental mind game. No. You have the capacity to forgive others because

Jeff Iorg: 28:38

you have been given forgiveness, lavish, extravagant, undeserved, overwhelming forgiveness. And because that's been extended to you, you now can dip into the well of that resource and pour it out on others. Listen, forgiveness is a spiritual discipline and a leadership necessity. You have been wronged in your life. You may today be in the process of being wronged by someone, and I can predict almost conclusively without exception, you will be wronged by someone in your future.

Jeff Iorg: 29:29

And the solution to all of this is to practice the discipline of forgiveness, to see it as your spiritual responsibility, to draw from the resource of forgiveness that God has granted you in Jesus Christ, and to dole that out in generous portions to people who've wronged you. When you do this, you release the control that they have over you. You eject the baggage that they've placed in your life and you establish a freedom to minister without bitterness, anger, resentment, discouragement, rancor. All because you've practiced the discipline of forgiveness. That 70 times seven kind of forgiveness that's repeated over and over again as the perpetual medication, if you will, the balm that soothes so much of the pain of the brokenness of relationship that comes from ministry leadership in a difficult and challenging world.

Jeff Iorg: 30:46

If you apply the discipline of forgiveness, you will be able to move forward over a lifetime of leadership, maintaining the kind of love, kindness, support, and positive perspective that you must have if you're going to lead God's people. The discipline of forgiveness, it's a leadership essential. Put it into practice as you lead on.