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My name is Jeff, and I'd like to welcome you on a journey of reflection and insight into the tolls and triumphs of a career in automotive repair.
After more than 20 years of skinned knuckles and tool debt, I want to share my perspective and hear other people's thoughts about our industry.
So pour yourself a strong coffee or grab a cold Canadian beer and get ready for some great conversation.
Curtis Gardner [00:00:06]:
I mean, I would never be in the position I'm in financially if it wasn't for flat rate.
Jeff Compton [00:00:10]:
Right?
Curtis Gardner [00:00:10]:
But would I enjoy a base or would I enjoy some hourly pay? Maybe one week or two weeks when it's slow or I'm not feeling like working tons of hours? Yes, I would enjoy that. Ultimately, I would. I think, which might be hard for some people to swallow, is that good text will be good text, bad techs will be bad techs. And if you give incentive, a lot of places would be surprised that their work is going to see stay the same. Those lacy techs are going to stand out and they're going to be exposed. And I think that's what a lot of people are afraid of.
Jeff Compton [00:00:46]:
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the J Mechanic podcast. It's another hot, sweltery summer night and I'm sitting here with again, drum roll. Ready. Another Canadian. I know you guys are getting so sick of that, but I mean, hey, I mean, we got to do something in this country to keep us all with a positive outlook with the way things are going. But I'm sitting here with a young gentleman named Curtis Gardner who reached out to me and did a really cool thing. He kind of an episode we did with David Klein, he posted to his Instagram saying that everybody is in the automotive sector needs to hear this episode. And I thought that is really cool.
Jeff Compton [00:01:28]:
And I'd seen a little bit of Curtis before, but I hadn't seen a ton and now I'm a big fan. So, Curtis, thanks for coming here tonight, man.
Curtis Gardner [00:01:36]:
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me on.
Jeff Compton [00:01:38]:
Yeah. So how long you been at this game?
Curtis Gardner [00:01:43]:
I'm just entering my 16th year.
Jeff Compton [00:01:46]:
Wow. Wow. And you work as an Audi tech?
Curtis Gardner [00:01:50]:
Yeah, I'm nine years as an Audi technician. Just hit Master Guild the beginning of this year.
Jeff Compton [00:01:57]:
Congratulations. That's. That's quite an accomplishment. So I. They're not a favorite brand of mine to work on by any stretch, so my hats off to give a lot of my respect there. I think they're like anything else, right? You get used to it and then it's, you know, it seems familiar and doesn't seem so. But I mean, you know how some of the people, like, talk online, right? They just. Volkswagen and Audi, they can't.
Jeff Compton [00:02:20]:
The, The. They can't wrap their head around some of the engineering ideas. So.
Curtis Gardner [00:02:25]:
Yeah, I was at Toyota for six years before and everyone told me, oh, you're gonna hate it. It's gonna be awful. And, yeah, I mean, it was challenging for about a month or two. And then it was like you said, it's a car.
Jeff Compton [00:02:40]:
Now that's, that's, that's a funny move to make from Toyota to Audi because I mean, I can remember back in the day and as long as I've been doing this, some guys that like our Toyota dealer, technicians or you know, work on a lot of Toyotas, absolutely love that. There's like the brand used to, it made so much money, they didn't break. Like, the warranty times were awesome. The retail times are even better. Like, why would you leave Toyota and go to Audi?
Curtis Gardner [00:03:05]:
I mean, Toyota's great. I love Toyota. But I'm also trying to make some money. And Toyotas are so good that they don't break as often.
Jeff Compton [00:03:16]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:03:16]:
And they're not as generous with their labor times and their warranty is not as generous.
Jeff Compton [00:03:23]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:03:23]:
So I, you know, it's funny, I heard you talking about your master level pay and it was like I got, I was a master at Toyota and Audi offered me the same pay to start at Audi.
Jeff Compton [00:03:37]:
Yeah. Well, and it's so funny, I can still remember our local Lexus dealer, which I'll call Lexus and Toyota 1 in the same, because in, in our local area, that's the same owner, same owner owns both of them. And they were trying to find a technician. And I was laid off with COVID and they called and offered me a job and it was essentially the same per flat rate hour as what I was getting paid hourly at the shop that I had been laid off from. And I kind of laughed at the guy. And I said, are you serious right now? Like, this is what you're offering to go work flat rate? Yeah. You make lots of hours. And I'm like, it's Lexus.
Jeff Compton [00:04:16]:
Like, it's a, it's a premier brand, you know. And I said, as for making lots of hours, I said, I know your former shop foreman. I know the guy that left. You got none of this. Guys in the shop are making great hours. So, you know, thanks for the offer, but I think I'll just pass politely now. That's three years ago. I don't know if it's doing better, but I mean, I can remember, you know, 10 years ago on Facebook, everybody seemed to love working at Toyota.
Curtis Gardner [00:04:45]:
And yeah, it's, I mean, I honestly love working on Toyotas. They're great. They're easy to work on. They're. You have customers that will drive 300 or 400, 000 miles and you get a full life out of a car.
Jeff Compton [00:04:59]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:05:00]:
It's great. But also want to make more money as a technician and kind of just understanding that Toyota's great brand to work for, but Audi has a little bit more potential when it comes to making more money.
Jeff Compton [00:05:11]:
Right, right. Wow. So let's back up then. Is that your whole kind of career so far? You ever do a stint in the independent side or aftermarket side?
Curtis Gardner [00:05:23]:
No, I started at Quick Car doing oil changes. That's about as independent as it's gotten. And then started at Toyota not very long after that, maybe a six months or so and doing oil changes and just ever, ever since then been in, in dealerships.
Jeff Compton [00:05:42]:
Yeah. How'd you get into the industry? You have like, just. Do you have family that's been a mechanic or were you always taking stuff apart as a kid? Like all of us?
Curtis Gardner [00:05:54]:
I'm always been into Legos. I think that started with Legos for me is maybe it did with every other mechanic and technician out there.
Jeff Compton [00:06:01]:
Yeah. Mechan Legos or used to hear a lot like model planes, model cars, model airplanes, that kind of stuff. I think now it's kind of the RC thing. A lot of technicians seem to have been like RC guys. I wasn't an RC guy, but I put a lot of car models together when I was a kid and a lot of airplane models and played with LEGO too, like LEGO sandbox, anything that like, you know. Yeah, I could get my hands on because, like, I could read and I like reading, but I always was more interested in building something than just reading something, you know what I mean?
Curtis Gardner [00:06:35]:
So, yeah, I tried. I tried college for a semester and quickly learned that it wasn't for me.
Jeff Compton [00:06:44]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:06:44]:
And then I. My mom told me I had to get a job, so I was like, well, I'll try here doing changing oil. And it was just. I wouldn't say it was rough, but it was just changing oil, nothing crazy. And one of the technicians there went to uti and so I kind of heard from him. It was a good place to go. And I was like, cool. So I ended up going to uti and kind of looking back, UTI costs a lot of money.
Curtis Gardner [00:07:17]:
It's a good program, but it's expensive. And so some school or some dealerships require you to have schooling.
Jeff Compton [00:07:25]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:07:26]:
So it was important for that to get into like a premier dealership, if you will, to have that schooling. So that kind of helped me. However, looking back, there's probably definitely some cheaper ways to go about getting that training.
Jeff Compton [00:07:38]:
Yeah. Now what, what campus do you go to?
Curtis Gardner [00:07:42]:
I think it's funny, I think you said, I'm actually from Houston.
Jeff Compton [00:07:47]:
Oh, you're not Canadian?
Curtis Gardner [00:07:48]:
Yeah, no, I was gonna, I didn't want to interrupt you in the middle of that, but I was like, oh, no, I'm. I'm in Texas.
Jeff Compton [00:07:55]:
Okay, I'll get, I'll get Braxton. Edit that out. Because I was like, uti. You'd be the first Canadian I've known then that went to uti. I'm sure there's probably a couple. But, yeah, Houston. I shouldn't even talk about the heat then, because you guys, you're right in it.
Curtis Gardner [00:08:10]:
Yeah, I was gonna say it's like today it was like 98 degrees, full humidity.
Jeff Compton [00:08:17]:
Very cool. Well, I mean, I've heard lots of. I've heard lots of good and bad. I can remember, you know, like lots of us. I can remember watching TV as a, as a teenager and seeing, you know, ads for UTI and, you know, all those, those kind of college programs and stuff. And yet I talked to a lot of technicians now that went through it, and they're like, man, it was a lot of money. You know, it was really a lot of money. And it helped me necessarily, maybe get my resume looked at, but a lot of them didn't take.
Jeff Compton [00:08:44]:
I think, you know, they come out of there going, I thought I knew a lot. And then when I hit the shop floor, I really realized I didn't know a whole lot. You know, there was still so much more to learn. So is that kind of what you thought?
Curtis Gardner [00:08:58]:
Yeah, I think UTI does a fantastic job of teaching you how each system works, the basics of each system and how it works. But they do it on a very generic level with, I don't know, Chevy's or Nissan's, whatever, they can get into the shop. And then when you get into a dealership, you get that hands on experience of what it's really like to apply those things.
Jeff Compton [00:09:20]:
Yeah, yeah. And you learn the nuances and the, you know, like, I, I always come back to evap, right? Like when I was working at the Chrysler dealer, like their EVAP system was like nothing else that was being out at the time. You know, like they were, they were using a pump. I don't say nothing else, but in the domestic side, nothing else. You know, everybody had a vent valve and a purge solenoid and they had this pump and everybody's like, huh? You know, and yet when we worked in it, we knew what back, you know, forward. And then when they go to the ESIM thing, which is now even more common in the industry thanks to the influence of Chrysler and the European stuff that's probably really influencing Kreiser now. It's, it's commonplace. Right.
Jeff Compton [00:10:01]:
But I mean I was back, I was lucky to be with Chrysler because they were doing things that were different and that's what I liked about it and I just like the brand. But you know, I can remember I had a, my, actually a good friend of mine, a good apprentice at the time. He came as an apprentice. Now he's an excellent mechanic, his Krauser Master tech and he come from Toyota and he said the same thing like they didn't hardly break, you know, they were just. But he was, he was held back at the, at the, at the Toyota store because he was kind of held to like a CTEC level like, you know, and he wanted to, to move up and there was no opportunity for him to move up. The shop was very stuck in. It's like we have a guy that does this and a guy that does that and we have a core group like you're going to be our oil change guy. And Dave was like trying to get, you know, to that next level and thankfully we were lucky that he landed in my, you know, dealership and he's now an excellent technician.
Jeff Compton [00:10:57]:
So shout out to.
Curtis Gardner [00:10:58]:
I've had, thankfully I've been. Have fortunate to be a bumper to bumper for both Toyota and Audi. So I've. And I don't know if Audi even does specialties but learning the whole car has helped me so much. Rather than just some of the like Ford and Chevrolet stuff out there where they're learning just transmissions or whatever.
Jeff Compton [00:11:20]:
Yeah. What, what, what do you remember about your first week at Audi?
Curtis Gardner [00:11:28]:
The timing chains are on the back. There's not very many inverse motors. They're all trans or. Sorry, psych. They're. They're inverse or transverse.
Jeff Compton [00:11:43]:
Yeah, yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:11:43]:
You know what I'm saying now that I'm. There's no transaxles. How about that? There we go. Say that. That way everything, even the like four cylinders and stuff like that, everything is mounted transversely. So it's, it was a big change because when you have to mess with the timing chains, you take off the transmission and so I was definitely challenged with that. I was also challenged with. They don't require you to lift the cars up and drain the oil with the drain plug because they have evacuation ports.
Jeff Compton [00:12:20]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:12:20]:
Was strange because that Toyota, that's all you did is lift, you lift a Toyota truck up to do an oil change for 0.5 and you're like, oh, this is just the way it is now. You get 0.5 for just sucking it out from the top.
Jeff Compton [00:12:32]:
Yeah, you can walk away and do something else at the same time. Right? Yeah. Whereas, you know, yeah, let's put a truck up and oh, look at, it's got extra skid plates. Well, that's not going to pay extra time, you know, like we're going to have to like, I, I mean, I don't know how many, you know, bolts you've had in the skid plates break down in Houston, but up here, like, it's like, oh, shoot, you know, nobody ever lubricates and bolts before they put back in. There's no anti season and all of a sudden you're doing an oil change and you know, you're fighting against kidney bolts for half an hour. Like it sucks.
Curtis Gardner [00:13:06]:
I've been blessed to not have to deal with that. Yeah, we don't have even the cars that come down from north, from the north are. They're still in decent shape compared to some of the horror stories that I hear. So I'll do control arm bushings and everything just comes out smooth. And, and everyone on Instagram is like, I hate you. This is awful. I'm like, this is normal for me. I, I love it.
Curtis Gardner [00:13:27]:
And then so I've kind of learned is that as a technician, it's so much about if you want to make a ton of hours about where you're at too. Sounds so silly. But up north, those same control arm bushings are going to pay you this and, but you have to get the torch out, you have to get the rust penetrate out. It's going to take you twice as long. But then down here I do the same job in 25 of the time because of just my environment.
Jeff Compton [00:13:52]:
Right. Now here's a question for you. Do you think then like that warranty should pay more for certain climates? And even if it's not warranty, do you feel that, like it'd be justified to say somebody you know up north wants to charge six hours to do the, say, the control arm job? I'm just throwing numbers around, right? Like, I don't know what the control arm and say you guys get three. Do you think that's fair or do you think that's a bunch of bs?
Curtis Gardner [00:14:22]:
Well, I think warranty could pay more everywhere, right? We have now, it's not a ton, but if you run the time under warranty and you take the proper documentation of it, you can get paid anywhere. From like 5/10 to and a half hours extra for seized bolts, broken bolts. So you're not making a ton of time on it. You can't really beat the, the book time. However, you can get paid for it, at least through Audi warranty.
Jeff Compton [00:14:50]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:14:50]:
And I have heard of guys charging an extra hour or two for seized bolts. And I'm like, that's fine with me. I don't. Because I'd rather take the lower labor rate than have to fight that bolt for. It's not, it's not worth it. It's just, yeah. A pain. And I've heard people in the shop get like maybe one or two pinch, pinch bolts stuck.
Curtis Gardner [00:15:09]:
And I'm like. And they'll spend all day on it. I'm like, nope, no thank you. You can pay me triple what I'm g. No, thank you.
Jeff Compton [00:15:15]:
Yeah, you just find another one. Yeah, there's a different fish for sure. We struggle the most. I, I think we're up here with alignments. That's the biggest thing. Like, it's like, it's really hard to do some rear toe or rear toe, rear adjustment period on a lot of this stuff when it's like, I'll say five years old. You go in to try to do the rear adjustments and the, the bolts receives right in the bushings. So if you get in there and try to like, you know, move it, you're tearing the bushings right out of it.
Jeff Compton [00:15:41]:
So sure, you get your numbers to come green. But guess what? You know, so everybody talks about like, you know, the tow and go thing, or nobody does a. You can open a can of worms up here trying to do a rear adjustment, a lot of stuff. If it's never been done and it's five years old. I'll tell you that right now. And I'm talking like, you can really, really get yourself into some problem, not alignment you're going to do in an hour, I'll tell you that right now. And you're going to cost a lot more parts and a lot more, you know, it, it just, it's the snowball, right? Like you just. And the customer's like, well, like, why is it so seized? Well, we never did alignment because, you know, you got 100,000.
Jeff Compton [00:16:21]:
You get 100,000 miles out of that set of tires. And now we're putting new tires on and we're going to line the whole car. Well, guess what? Everything back there is all seized up. So we're big proponents for, for rust underproofing because it does help it really does help. Does it actually keep the car from rusting away? A little bit. But it does help with getting some of the fasteners loose. And that's the biggest thing. Like, like, I hate, hate when you go to take like the Volkswagen struts, for example, if you've ever had to do one, the jettison stuff, like where the bolts go down through and the nut is captured on the bottom of the strut.
Jeff Compton [00:16:56]:
Almost every one of them up here, like it just spins, it just breaks off and you're like, you know, now you're getting in there with a torch and a grinder to get the, the nut off so you can get the strutter there. Whereas like I talk to guys, I'm like, oh yeah, I just spray a little bit of PB on there and then it comes right out and it's like, must be nice.
Curtis Gardner [00:17:12]:
Yeah, I don't even. The pv, I don't even have to use that half the time. So it's. I hear you say that. I'm like, whoo, I dodged a boat. Just happened to end up down here in Houston. Just some simple stuff like that.
Jeff Compton [00:17:27]:
What do you find? Do you find a difference between the Toyota customer and the Audi customer? Are they mostly the same for you?
Curtis Gardner [00:17:34]:
I'd say there's a big difference. The part, the price of the car is a starting point.
Jeff Compton [00:17:39]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:17:40]:
But there is plenty of Audi customers that maybe don't expect to get some of the maintenance bills or the repair bills. I mean, the oil change is over 200.200ish dollars, depending on what motor you have. And it's. I just, they're like, oh, $200. I'm like, you bought an Audi? Sorry, I don't. I mean, luckily I don't have to talk to them about that, but I get it. I mean, it's expensive.
Jeff Compton [00:18:04]:
Sure. Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:18:05]:
And so that, and then, you know, anything from the repairs. Audis don't last as long. I mean, you get an Audi over 100,000 miles, that's a fossil. And so you, you see that and you're like, these customers don't. Like the cars are not lasting as long, they're breaking, the repairs get more expensive. And so there's that. But I will say is the cars that are between that zero to a hundred thousand miles, I mean, there's definitely customers that will take more care of their cars and spend the money or they have more extended warranty.
Jeff Compton [00:18:37]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:18:37]:
They'll spend the money on the extended warranty versus just, oh, I'll be fine. Because the repairs Are so expensive.
Jeff Compton [00:18:43]:
Yeah. Now what, what's your favorite kind of what do you like to do? Heavy line or do you like to do diag? Or you do it all and love it all or.
Curtis Gardner [00:18:57]:
What'S the try to be. I focus on the things that no one else wants to do.
Jeff Compton [00:19:05]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:19:05]:
Now I enjoy the gravy, I enjoy the suspension or the services. But I found my sweet spot doing evaporators. Okay, because nobody. Well, now people just kind of learn from me. But when I first started Audi, no one liked to do evaporators. No one liked to do interior work like center frames, all that. So I would pride myself in learning how to do it, learning how to do it fast. And the whole shop would give me all their interior work.
Curtis Gardner [00:19:31]:
And so I just be, hey, do you want to do something? Yeah, sure. And then. So I'll always find ways to turn a bad job into a good one if I do it enough times.
Jeff Compton [00:19:40]:
That's awesome.
Curtis Gardner [00:19:42]:
Squeaks and rattle Dyad cars. I mean you're never winning on those. But the, the interior work, the, the timing covers, I spoke about the timing covers on the rear, people hate doing those. I don't want to do that. Although I'll do it. I'll do it. It pays 10 to 15 hours and I can do it in a day or do day and change. I'll do it.
Curtis Gardner [00:20:02]:
And so that's the biggest thing for me is just Audi has a lot of jobs that a lot of people don't want to do. So that would be my favorite one because keeps me busy.
Jeff Compton [00:20:11]:
Is that paying like 15 hours under warranty or is that paying 15 hours retail when the customer comes in?
Curtis Gardner [00:20:17]:
Depending on the model, some of the ones pay 15 under warranty and then some of the ones pay CP about the same. It just depends on the engine and the model of vehicle.
Jeff Compton [00:20:27]:
Right, right. We've got a. I think it's an A4. I don't know, it might be a 10 year old A4 sitting at the shop right now. And it's got the PCB system blown out of it. Right. Which is common. And then it's taken out the rear main too.
Jeff Compton [00:20:41]:
And we're not even gonna like. I work at a used car lot and we took it in on trade from a customer and of course the salesman got really, you know, because it's. I think it maybe has 70, 000 miles on it. So he's thinking, oh, this is a cream puff. This is gonna be great. At first they thought it was like a bell idler noise and Then that whistle would set up after about 10 minutes. And I'm like, they had me come out look at it and they're like, can you tell us what idler that is? And I'm like, it's not the idler. I'm like, did anybody put this on the hoist and look at it? Nope.
Jeff Compton [00:21:16]:
Well, they put it on the hoist and of course the rear mains just puking oil. So that's going to auction. They're not, they're not fixing it. They're not going to put all that into it and then try and put it back out on the lot to sell because they made the mistake. They didn't realize what they're getting. So. But that was a funny one which is, you know, everything that is seems so different. The Chevy Cruises do it too, right.
Jeff Compton [00:21:37]:
Like then the Chevy Ecotex and they blow the PCV system and then blows the rear main out. So I mean, you know, such as I've seen Mercedes do it now it seems everybody's systems now are doing something similar. So it's just again, when you get into the labor, right. Of what's it take to actually repair? You know, I think the ecotech is like an eight hour job to do that repair, whereas the Audi is twice as much. So you know, what are you driving? You're driving an Audi. Okay. You should have the extra money. No big deal.
Curtis Gardner [00:22:06]:
Yeah, yeah. There's seen people that would rather spend that type of money on a car than have a car payment.
Jeff Compton [00:22:14]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:22:15]:
And when I see that on an Audi as a technician, I'm kind of like, oh cool, the hours. But then at the same time it's like, like I don't know if, I don't know if I would do that. I'll tell the advisor, maybe tell them to take that $5,000 and don't spend on their car now unless they're like for sure in a bind where they can't, you know, get another car or something. But if someone's trying to spend a bunch of money on an old car that's not worth, I'll be like, just tell them, just be a little honest and just tell them, hey, if you can use this money in a different place, I would recommend it because this car is just going to give you a ton more problems in the future.
Jeff Compton [00:22:52]:
Now let me ask you about that because like, do you think it's what makes them so failure prone? Is it just poor engineering or is it just like build quality? Like what, what happens? Because we can, we hear that whether it's like, you know, they'll do that repair where they've got a PCV issue, an example, and then next month something happens with the electrical side of it, you know, whatever. Like is it just junky parts or water leaks? I know is a big one. That takes out a lot of the, the electronic components. But like, is that what it. Where.
Curtis Gardner [00:23:26]:
I think it's a combination of everything you just mentioned.
Jeff Compton [00:23:30]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:23:31]:
I mean you could tell it when you get a hold of some of the plastic pieces on the engines or even in the inside. It just seems that after that T10 year hundred thousand mile mark, those plastic pieces become brittle. The components aren't as strong. The, the way that they use their gaskets and their seals doesn't seem like maybe the longest term type of thing. They use a lot of sealants versus gaskets.
Jeff Compton [00:23:57]:
Yep.
Curtis Gardner [00:23:58]:
So I've noticed that the sealants will give way. We don't have any head gasket leaks. I mean, you might have an engine every now and then, rarely with a head gasket, but it's usually like an issue from like an overheat, overheating or failed thermostat. There's not like, oh, my head gas gets leaking coolant just because of normal driving or leaking oil. So anything that has a sealant is usually where we have problems on oil leaks.
Jeff Compton [00:24:22]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:24:22]:
And I think the plastic components are just built a little bit cheaper.
Jeff Compton [00:24:26]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:24:29]:
And the cars are great. When I always tell people when you, if you want to drive an Audi, drive an Audi under warranty. Because in that period of time, it's fantastic, it's a beautiful car, it's super high tech, they're fun to drive, they feel super sporty, but once you get out of that warranty, it just gets a little bit more expensive every time you come to the dealership. And, and so I've noticed as they get older, they get more expensive and they start to get a little bit less reliable.
Jeff Compton [00:24:54]:
Yeah. Do you drive one?
Curtis Gardner [00:24:56]:
I drive them because we get a good deal on them.
Jeff Compton [00:24:59]:
Okay. All right.
Curtis Gardner [00:25:01]:
I wouldn't drive one otherwise. It's a lease deal. So I drive one because we get a good deal on leases, but if I had to own one, I would drive a Toyota.
Jeff Compton [00:25:12]:
It's not like you got like a 12 year old, you know, a series sitting at home that you're like, these are pride and joy. You're not that crazy.
Curtis Gardner [00:25:20]:
No. It's funny. We actually have a Q6, which is an electric car.
Jeff Compton [00:25:25]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:25:26]:
And they give you stupid Deals, it's almost impossible to refuse. So we get the deal and then I drive. I actually drive a Corolla right now, but my wife has the deal and she drives the Q6 around.
Jeff Compton [00:25:39]:
Right on, right on. That'd be a fun car to drive. I think that'd be. I think it'd be pretty neat.
Curtis Gardner [00:25:45]:
It's like a. It's like the Porsche Macan's, the little super sporty ev. It's fast, all wheel drive. It's. It's fun to drive, but it can be. I mean, you got the electric range, you can't go anywhere. Long distance, you're stuck.
Jeff Compton [00:26:00]:
Yeah, I mean, and I'm not a proponent of the ev. It's just I drove my. An old boss out of Tesla. Why? And I drove that thing and it. I gotta say, it's fun to drive. Like, they really are the, the instant throttle and the whole thing. Like the quiet. I really like that.
Jeff Compton [00:26:15]:
But I mean, yeah, he couldn't even drive, you know, two hours without having to pull over. Two hours on the highway without having to pull over and charge the stupid thing. Like, it's just ridiculous. Up here in the wintertime, your range is cut in half. Up here in the summertime, if you run it with the AC on, your range is cut in half. Like, it's just. They're not Canada. Tesla don't.
Jeff Compton [00:26:38]:
You know, we sell a lot of them up here, but a lot of people that really enjoy them up here live in one of the bigger cities where you can get to everything you want to get to in 15 minutes.
Curtis Gardner [00:26:47]:
You know, I love working on EVS. I just wish they paid a little bit better. Yeah, they're fun to work on. The technology is cool. The high voltage stuff is a little dangerous. Ish. But it's really the, the way that they work and the way that they have everything set up and having the battery, it's fun to take it apart. It's a big job, really interested me.
Curtis Gardner [00:27:09]:
But then you just. It's such a specific job that you can't. I mean, you're just barely breaking even on it. So it's one of those things to. If I'm making money, I would like to avoid.
Jeff Compton [00:27:23]:
Now, what's kind of the like. Because you seem to have a very good attitude about. You'll take some of the jobs that nobody else wants to do and become good at it, which is awesome. I mean, that's the kind of technician I used to be when I was at a dealer and, you know, I enjoyed that. But what what's kind of the. Because I've seen your social media content and I know you're kind of, you know, pushing kind of in a similar vein to what I'm doing. Right. You want to talk about the industry and make the young people aware of what it is and the opportunities that are there for them.
Jeff Compton [00:27:55]:
But what's kind of some of the drawbacks from working, you know, at the dealer that you don't like?
Curtis Gardner [00:28:05]:
The rules.
Jeff Compton [00:28:06]:
The rules.
Curtis Gardner [00:28:06]:
That's going to be maybe more of a personal preference. There's a lot of politics sometimes when. And that's maybe more at a high level. I think once you get. Once you've been in for 10, 15, 20 years and you start to understand how the dealership works and the requirements and the numbers, that's maybe more, like I said, a personal preference. The drawbacks. I've never worked independent, so it's comparably, I would say, I don't really know besides that, because for me, working on the same brand and the same car is easy because it's a lot of repeat repairs, a lot of repeat processes. So you might see the same problem on so many cars.
Curtis Gardner [00:28:49]:
It makes it a lot easier to diagnose because you're going to check that one thing first. Yeah, well, for sure, the politics is probably my least favorite thing now.
Jeff Compton [00:28:59]:
Politics in terms of how work gets dispatched or politics in terms of like. Because I had an interesting conversation with a gentleman on Tick Tock just an hour ago about the. The flat rate versus the guarantee thing in the shops and he's in a situation where like, his exposure to a lot of the guys that he's seen that have a guarantee is that they become lazy and, you know, complacent and don't develop and just sit around and never push to surpass 40 hours. Right. And I said, well, you know, and he says, well, I think all those guys are on a guarantee. Then should get all of the comebacks in the shop and all the nightmare cars because they've got a guarantee. And I said, oftentimes the guys that get the guarantee are the guys that were already getting all that kind of work. Like, I know when I was and I never had a guarantee, but I know that when they knew that I was like just a little bit better than, you know, some of the other ones at Diag or, you know, I would take the time to find the problem.
Jeff Compton [00:29:58]:
It just became nature that I got more of those cars. Like, you know, it was back three times and the manager would walk out and say, hey, can you look at this? Because, you know, it's been bounced around and it's the boomerang and blah, blah, blah. So him and I kind of had that discussion. So it's like chicken or the egg. Richard came first. Right. That technician that you might see as complacent and you is only working on his guarantee. It might be because that's the only way he feels he's going to bring it for the.
Jeff Compton [00:30:28]:
His employer. Right. He's only going to show up and be guaranteed because they're going to make sure that. That they value him enough to look after him. And then the other guys, it's like, oh, you know, he never pushes past 40. Pushing past 40. All depends on what work you're getting, is my opinion. You know, like, is that your politic kind of thing is, you know, you get a lot of harder jobs, the more skilled you become.
Jeff Compton [00:30:51]:
We see that conversation pop up all the time.
Curtis Gardner [00:30:57]:
It's good. It's a spicy topic. As you know.
Jeff Compton [00:31:01]:
That's what we do here. Curtis.
Curtis Gardner [00:31:05]:
I think for me, I'm in a fortunate situation in my dealership and with my group leader, who is the dispatcher for me, that he understands where I'm at. And when it's slow, it can be a little frustrating. But I'm also more experienced enough to know that everyone's needs to eat. So while I want to make a ton of hours, the guy next to me is at 20 for the week. It might suck to give that good ticket to him. And I might be frustrated with it in a moment, but I understand. Bigger picture is he's got his own things to take care of. So I think five years ago my answer would be different.
Curtis Gardner [00:31:41]:
I'd be like, give me all the tickets. And now I'm like, okay, I still want all the tickets, but I understand why I can't have them. That's not a big issue for me, thankfully. I think the politics that I'm talking about is maybe more some of this, the hoops that we need to jump through and the requirements by management.
Jeff Compton [00:32:05]:
Okay, break that down for me. You're in a safe place here. Don't worry.
Curtis Gardner [00:32:11]:
No, I just want to make sure that I'm saying in a way that's not incorrect.
Jeff Compton [00:32:15]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:32:15]:
So, like, there's a lot of things that they'll add to our ways of doing things. Do this, do that. Some of the instruction that we receive is a little bit gray, and then it gets held against us when we don't receive or get the proper training or the proper Guidance. It's more of stuff like that.
Jeff Compton [00:32:38]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:32:39]:
I think that for me, that causes some issues and not necessarily in my case, but what I see from other technicians and what I see on other teams or in other shops that bother me is where there's not enough training to show technicians how to survive on flat rate.
Jeff Compton [00:32:54]:
Yeah. I just. 100%. Sorry, cut you off.
Curtis Gardner [00:32:58]:
No, when you. So it's like a leadership thing as well as. The politics of it is, is everyone is in the dealership to make money. And so I think there just needs to be some training involved in how that happens.
Jeff Compton [00:33:14]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:33:14]:
And there's a lot. A lot of places that don't have that. So when you bring that conversation up, the excuses that come out about why they can't do it and stuff like that, it kind of bothers me because there's no accountability. So I don't even know if that's politics. At the end of the day, that might just be accountability.
Jeff Compton [00:33:38]:
Well, I. I find sometimes it's been my experience is that oftentimes what dealers do is they. They make managers from within. So they promote, say, a technician, you know, ages up and they make him a service manager. Right. Or the. He spends a tenure as a shop foreman and he does really good and the customers start to get to know him or her and familiar, and he knows the. You know, he's respected by the technicians and they make him a manager.
Jeff Compton [00:34:08]:
And then sometimes what, like, because of the way we are as technicians is sometimes we're very process oriented and we're very like, we'll do something a few times and then we tweak it and it works for us. I find sometimes that they just too often fall in the trap of. Well, I would assume everybody would do it like me, so they should have already picked up this process. Right. And that's not the same, you know, like how you may pull a dash out is different than somebody else. Right. They may do it differently. We're all kind of slightly different.
Jeff Compton [00:34:40]:
So I feel like sometimes they're. We're not always the best at giving instruction. It's just we get in there and do it ourselves. And I find that sometimes that's where the management in some shops fails, is because they can't convey exactly how I want it done, or they go, I would just assumed that you knew to do this. No, you know, like, DVI is a good example. I heard you having a. You're having a conversation with some people in Instagram about DBI and all that kind of stuff, but it's like, that's where I see it right now is it's a very funny topic in the industry because everybody, you know, has different opinions and I, I don't, I can't say that I think anybody is wrong. But like you look at how two texts do a dvi, no two techs really do them the same.
Jeff Compton [00:35:25]:
And then what somebody might put down is like, they've heard me say that red, you know, yellow and green. Red being fixed now, yellow can wait. And green is perfectly good. There's always inconsistencies from that. You know, like one, one tech will call that oil seal leaking, another one will say some seepage. Well, to the customer it's very different, right? Leaking is like, I'm going to see it on my driveway. Seepage is like, I'll never see it. You know, it's on the belly pan, that kind of thing.
Curtis Gardner [00:36:00]:
You mean did video inspections?
Jeff Compton [00:36:02]:
Did, yeah, digital video inspections or you know, back. I'm so friggin old. We used to call them MPIs and we used to just. It was a paper and you checked it off, right? And of course we all rubber stamped them because you weren't getting paid anything extra. And like we were very good about looking, inspecting the car and knowing, okay, it needs brakes and writing down the estimate for breaks. But we didn't fill out the, you know, the MPI back in the day, like, oh, they only have 2 mil, you know, like it's got a brake noise. I drove it. It pulsates, it's squealing.
Jeff Compton [00:36:31]:
It needs brakes. Nobody tended to ask, well, what's the millimeter? And that's a question. For example, going on this topic that still frustrates me because it's like, what's it freaking matter if it's 2 mil or 8 mil? They're noisy. Like they're, they're, they have a brake complaint noise. They've got some cheap pads on there or whatever or you know, cheap rotor or machine glazed over, whatever. What's the matter if they're eight or two, they need to be replaced, right? Or serviced in some regard. And everybody's like, oh, the customer wants these details. Do you really think like that they do or they just want to know what repair is required?
Curtis Gardner [00:37:20]:
No, this is a good question. This is a really good question because this is something that no one's really asked me before and I think it's in your. When I'm filming the video, I've gone back and forth on this on people like, oh, show them the good stuff, show them that their car's in great shape. And sometimes, Sometimes I feel like it's a waste of time. And sometimes I feel like it's great.
Jeff Compton [00:37:42]:
Yep.
Curtis Gardner [00:37:42]:
But I'm also not going to get on a video inspection and tell somebody that their. Their car is, you know, the wheels. Oh, the wheels are going to fall off. Your. Your braking capacity is. Or your braking ability has been compromised. You're, you know, you're. I mean, I'll be honest to say that your tires are unsafe to drive.
Curtis Gardner [00:38:01]:
To drive on. They're bald. And I'll show them.
Jeff Compton [00:38:03]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:38:04]:
But then sometimes I feel like just talking about the stuff in between is, for me, I'm assuming that that stuff is good. If I don't talk about it, that means it's good.
Jeff Compton [00:38:12]:
Yeah. And I, I watched some DVIs on YouTube from different guys, and it's, it's, you know, some of them do it really fast and introduce themselves and say, hey, you know, my name's Curtis. I'll be your technician today. And, and, you know, here's all, all that. They're walking under the car and they're filming it really fast. They're going, this is all good. And this is all good. And this is all good.
Jeff Compton [00:38:31]:
And then they come to the point where they're showing them, like you said, this is. That are at 2 millimeters. Sorry, metric, you know, 2. 30 seconds. You know, they should really be replaced ASAP, you know, and, and people are like, oh, okay. The, the stuff that we all just kind of pushed past and, and said it was okay. That's where it seems to be in the industry. Everybody's like, no, you didn't spend enough detail on that.
Jeff Compton [00:38:58]:
They don't care. Right. And it's my opinion they don't care about all their rear suspension bushings are okay because they don't have a complaint with the way the car rides, stops, brakes, you know, any of that. They're not feeling like it's down to. They don't care. They don't know what all that is. They're here for a, you know, peace of mind. I don't think we need to spend a whole lot, like, especially with the way the times are being paid out.
Jeff Compton [00:39:23]:
I don't feel like we should be spending a bunch of time on the stuff that's good when we need to focus so much on the stuff that's bad and convey the importance of the bad stuff and why it needs to be addressed today. I think that's where. And yet, you know, everybody's saying techs are doing terrible DVIs. And it's like, first of all, a lot of them are not getting paid for it. A lot of them only getting a half, you know, hour to do it. Which again, depending on climate condition and car and all that kind of stuff, a half hour might be enough or it might not be. But, like, if I'm gonna go up and show the customer on my DVI that there's a loose ball joint and it's worn the tires now irregular, I'm going to spend a large part of my DVI portion of time that's being filmed or whatever explaining the severity of that. That ball joint right now and trying to do it in a manner that's not going to sound like, hey, your wheel is going to fall off and you're going to die in a fiery wreck.
Jeff Compton [00:40:19]:
You know, I don't want the Tommy boy thing going on. Right. Like from that great scene. But it should be a good time to have the communication via the customers text or whatever that. This is why you're, you know, this is why we're looking at the car. This is what is the urgent thing that needs to be addressed soon. All the stuff that we glanced over, like, in time, it may need to be addressed and later on, but this whole show them all the good stuff.
Curtis Gardner [00:40:49]:
It'S a waste of time.
Jeff Compton [00:40:51]:
Okay. Yeah, I'm kind of with the same thing. Like, I don't pull out spark plugs and say, hey, see, they're still good. You don't. And. And put it back in the engine. That's. That's just asking for a comeback and a waste of time.
Jeff Compton [00:41:02]:
They're obviously good. The check engines, lights on, the people. Oh, that's not as well. You know, I drove. I test drove it. It drives fine. It doesn't have a check engine light on. I'm not pulling the spark plug out of it.
Jeff Compton [00:41:12]:
That's just as an example. Or I'm not. I'm bad. I don't yank cabin air filters out. I don't do it. People go, why? You know, well, first of all, if I yank it out and they don't want to buy it, then I got to put it back in and they obviously don't care. And that's how much, how many tents wasted. Right? That.
Jeff Compton [00:41:33]:
That was labor that we could have sold. Because here's the thing. It's always seems slimy to me when you see the quick lube shops and they come out and they carry one out and they show it to the customer and they go, okay. And that's going to be $60 because I'm now adding labor to change it out. It's really hard for me, even as a customer to go labor to change it. Like you've already got it in your hand. It couldn't have, it couldn't possibly have taken that long. Even though we know, right? You're contorting up under a dash, you're yanking out something, you're getting a crick in your neck, sciatic screaming at you to get it out.
Jeff Compton [00:42:09]:
For them to say, that's maybe 1/10, 2/10 that you spent. For them to say, no, I don't do it. I look at it and it's like if the one under the hood is, is dirty. Recommending them both, that's just my thing because I've had a lot of them where I pull it out, it's covered in leaf litter, right? Or whatever, mice, something, and they go, I don't want that. Put it back in, okay. Then something falls into the blower cage and guess what? Now we have a noisy blower cage. And now we have to take the blower cage down or, you know, come up with some method to try and get the leaf litter out of the blower motor. That's why I don't touch it.
Jeff Compton [00:42:48]:
I do not touch them unless the customer is going to replace it. You've seen them too, like Curtis, you know, they'll fold out coming out. You're not getting that back in there straight.
Curtis Gardner [00:42:58]:
Like I, we have a lot of customers that are very good with their maintenance schedules. So for me, I'm not usually recommending it unless it's per mileage, right? Where if a customer is doing their 80,000 mile service and they've only done oil changes since 10k, I'll, I will recommend it per mileage, but like I said, I'm not going to pull it out. I, I just, somebody might think, oh, what a bad guy I am for that. But at the same time, like for all those reasons that you just said is exactly why it's not worth the few tenths that I'm going to get for it. Because for them to say, no, I've just already wasted it. And most of the time for us, you take it out, you show it in the video, you put it back, you drop it at wash for them to approve it 30 minutes later to take it out, put a new one in and then you just done it twice and got paid for it once.
Jeff Compton [00:43:46]:
That's right. And, and to me, like, it can be really simple. The service Advisor can do a lot of that where they can ask the customer, do you remember the last time you had your cabin air filter done? And if the customer says the what it's probably due, you know what I mean? It's probably ready to be done if they can't remember the last time. But like, I just, I pulled out so many when we do the dvi and they had been because, like, you know, I worked at a shop where they might be there because their brakes are noisy, but we're doing a free dvi. So we pull the cabinet filter out and it's like, it's pretty clean. Well, why is it clean? Well, because they go to a different shop for their oil changes, and the oil change guys are hard on, you know, right there all the time getting that upsell on that cabin filter. Well, what did I just do? I just dumped a bunch of leaf litter in the blower motor. Or, you know, I, I, I folded it and creased it trying to get it out there and, you know, hurt myself for nothing.
Jeff Compton [00:44:44]:
Pain in the ass. Waste of time, right? It's better to have the conversation with the customer and go, do you know when you did the last oil? You know, oh, I just had that done with my last oil change. Cool. I don't need to get under the dash. I don't need to pull your cabin filter out. I pull them out. Now if the car's got a funk smell, like they've had a wet dog in there, or the customer's been a smoker, and I get the car in my bait. Yeah, I'm yanking it out, and I'm probably yanking it out, and I already have ordered the new one.
Jeff Compton [00:45:11]:
That's just the way I am, you know, But I don't like this, this, this DBI thing of, you know, pull the wheels on every car and measure all the brakes and pull the cabin air filter out and, you know, grab the lower control arms with a pry bar and try and check the deflection in the, in the. Man, oh, man, like, there's, there's value in showing them what's not broke. I agree. But there's a lot of time spent to do a proper dvi. And in this industry right now, we're still. If it has such value, I think I commented on your video on this. If it has so much value, the dealers and everybody else that was supposedly so behind it would be paying their technicians to do it. And I go, I understand.
Jeff Compton [00:45:58]:
Like, some do and some don't. And some people have the conversation of, well, you got to do the DVI in order to get the work. Nope, nope, nope, you don't. I made a whole career out of selling work on cars that I didn't have to do a DVI to get the work. Now it might have been like, it's not running. It didn't start. That's work. I got that work.
Jeff Compton [00:46:19]:
You know, I'm not looking at the brakes when the car is being pushed in because the fuel pump's bad. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not. That's, that's a waste of time to me. The customer doesn't even care about their brakes when that needs a fuel pump. Know what I mean?
Curtis Gardner [00:46:35]:
I feel, I feel sometimes when I'm doing my. Well, you know, we'll get into the getting paid part on videos because. Yeah, because that's, that's going to be a good one. But I think sometimes I feel bad when I have to tell a customer, oh, your fuel pump. We'll just use fuel pump. For example, say your fuel pump's bad here. Let me recommend 10 more things on your car that are wrong.
Jeff Compton [00:46:58]:
Yes.
Curtis Gardner [00:46:58]:
And then like, you're just $12,000 that car. And, and the training that you receive on that is, well, it's not your money to spend. And I'm like, well, I still feel bad. I still feel bad that I recommended that. And then at the video, my inspection, what am I supposed to say? Have a great day. Like, I, I say that because it's. What else do you say? But at the same time, I'm like, wow, I felt awful. Like, I just recommended that what they came in for.
Curtis Gardner [00:47:27]:
Sorry about all this light, by the way. I don't know.
Jeff Compton [00:47:29]:
Oh, no, you're good. You're good.
Curtis Gardner [00:47:30]:
But like, they just came in for the fuel pump. And then I recommended oil leak suspension tires. And then it's like, well, they're definitely not going to buy that 500 fuel pump or whatever because now they need 10,000 more dollars of other stuff.
Jeff Compton [00:47:45]:
Yeah, you just.
Curtis Gardner [00:47:46]:
I'm just gonna get rid of the car now.
Jeff Compton [00:47:47]:
Yeah, well, and that. And that's it. And see, I. I've had this conversation, I don't want to say argument, but I've had this conversation with some really smart people that are in training in the industry, and I see both sides of it because they're like, you have to advocate for the customer. You have to be transparent. Yeah. But here's the reality, okay. A lot of customers, if I say they're there for 500, is not an accurate number anymore.
Jeff Compton [00:48:11]:
But say they're there for a thousand dollar fuel pump job. They know coming in that, you know, they got a suspicion I need a fuel pump and they maybe Google it and you know, they've got prices anywhere from 500 to 2,000 bucks. So you do the diag on the car and just like you said, you give them an estimate for $2,000 and then you whack them with a whole bunch of other stuff that is, I'm not saying shouldn't be done, but should it be done right now? And this is where we get into that, that gray area because or difference of opinion even under training is like the really aggressive coaching companies will tell you, yeah, you want that whole ticket right now. And as a technician I'm like, I would love to have that whole ticket right now. If I could turn every two hour fuel pump job into a ten hour ticket, hallelujah, I'd be, you know, sitting pretty. But we know that what happens is a lot of the time we give them, you know, five thousand dollar estimate for the rest of the stuff and it drives out and somebody else does the fuel pump and we have this now image of us like, oh my God, they're aggressive. That's the struggle with me, like is, you know, we don't, we and it, and it seems to be Curtis because it's like we're so scared of having the customer call up two months after we do an oil change. You go, I'm over at, you know, Shop XYZ and I'm normally at your place getting all my oil changes done and my brakes are metal on metal.
Jeff Compton [00:49:36]:
Nobody told me, okay, like part of me goes, well why are you over there, not over here if you get all your oil changes done here and why are you not having us look at the brakes? And then the other thing is like, well you never asked us to look at the breaks. So I can see both sides. Because they don't want unexpected stuff yet. If we tell them about the unexpected stuff that they don't even hear about or know about, we look like we're crooks. We're trying to rip them off, trying to oversell, we're trying to upcharge, we're trying to, you know all those shitty words, right, that have. It's always on the.
Curtis Gardner [00:50:15]:
I try to be as efficient and quick as possible. Talking about those things. Oh, my camera's freaking out. They're talking about those things where like we mentioned the things they don't need. So I'll be like, I'll mention. I try to mention the things that customers think of the most about fluids, tire pressure and maybe leaks and suspension. But I say it in like a generic manner. Oh, I didn't see any leaks underneath your car, but I'm not showing them.
Curtis Gardner [00:50:43]:
Everything on your suspension's in great shape, or maybe your upper control arm bushings are bad, but everything else on your vehicle is good and just keeping it good or great and then moving forward with the way that I talk about the things that are good. Just keep it short and simple like you mentioned earlier. And it's kind of backtracking a little bit, but it's more of just saying keep it short and sweet because you don't want to quote them all those things. And then also in the video, if their leaks are coming up, you say, okay, I noticed your oil pan is beginning to leak. I'll say something like make. Just keep an eye on it. You know, we'll check it again at your next service. We'll check it in again at your next oil change and just see how it's coming along.
Curtis Gardner [00:51:24]:
You know, it might need be ready for replacement sometimes if things are in the yellow brinking on red. Yeah, I will. I will send him a quote, but I'll say in my video, I'm going to send a quote over for this so you can get an idea what it looks like as you come up on your next 10,000 mile service.
Jeff Compton [00:51:43]:
Right? Yeah, it used to drive me crazy. The fluid check thing that you mentioned is a good one because, like, you know, more and more of these cars don't have a dipstick for, say, the transmission, as an example. And it can be a process just to check the level. Right. It's got to be up to a certain temperature. You might have to have a scan tool involved, you know, pulling out a plug, watching drips, all that kind of stuff. And I can remember writing up cars and it'd be like, transmission fluid is leaking from cooler lines. And, you know, on the dvi, and it was understood that that portion of the DVI that time it was allotted was not the additional time wasn't allotted and wasn't approved to spend checking the fluid level of that particular transmission.
Jeff Compton [00:52:28]:
Right. Like it was. It's a process. They would then come to me and say, well, is the fluid level okay? No, it's not. Well, how do you know it's not? Well, it's leaking. Well, did you check it? Did you want it checked? Like it's. No authorization for additional time to do this check because the customer wasn't aware it needed to be checked until we told them that the. The lines are leaking.
Jeff Compton [00:52:53]:
So obviously the customer is saying, well, if the fluid level is okay, I don't want to do the repair. And the advisor instead of going, the repair needs to be done is going, well, let me go ask the tech if the fluid level is okay. The answer is already in your. In your should be in your inbox. That no, it's. Sorry, I hate to curse. No, it's not okay and it needs to be done. But you see what I mean.
Jeff Compton [00:53:16]:
The customer, a poor advisor is going, I better go ask. And then I better give him if he didn't check the fluid level because my customer is expecting the fluid level now. They're not setting the expectations with the customer that we may find something. And if we find something on the dbi, it needs to be addressed. That adjustment will take additional time and money and even to know where the repair is going. Right. Everybody thinks the DVI response I note something that means I immediately know what it's going to cost to do no to do the repair right. It's like oil seepage from top of engine, wear on top of engine requires further time to check.
Jeff Compton [00:54:00]:
I can tell you the problematic things that it might be right, you know, on your cars where they're prone to leak oil. I can tell you on, you know, a lot of the Chryslers where they're prone to leak oil, but I don't know, has to spend time, oh, well. And all of a sudden the customer. My point is, is that the customer is even irritated that we told them about something they weren't even aware of. And then when we don't have an answer for them other than, well, gee, it's going to take more time to look into why and where they get even more upset. They're just there for an oil change and a brake squeak, you know, and we told them about these oil leaks that they don't even have any clue about or concern. And we've lost the brake job now because we've tried to rebuild their car, I guess is my point. That's the, that's the yank I have about dvi.
Jeff Compton [00:54:49]:
I think it's a good tool. I think that right now we're trying to spend all this time and teaching on teaching technicians to do it. And I think that really where the teaching is is trying to get the advisors to convert it into sales. Because if you can't convert it into sales, there's no point in the technician doing it. And that's the big problem that I have with a lot of people is A, they're not, they're not paying the tech for it, and then B, your advisors are so poor performing that they're not converting what we find to, to sold work anyway. So who is that? Who doesn't want it? The customer doesn't want the news, the advisor doesn't want to sell it. The only thing that we know is the technician wants to do the work. That's why he or she wrote it down.
Jeff Compton [00:55:33]:
We fail on two ports to get it sold to the customer. Why keep punishing the technician with more unpaid time to tell things that the customer doesn't want to hear and that the service advisor doesn't really want to sell. Why do we keep doing it? Because some coaching company tells everybody this is the future of the industry, this is what everybody wants, this is the only way we're going to ever hit the numbers and the profit and blah blah, blah in this industry that we're supposed to. I could show you shops that have never done a DVI that are busy and profitable because I think they fix the customer's concern.
Curtis Gardner [00:56:10]:
We do both and we do paper NPIs and I do video inspections. I'm sending the quotes while over the computer.
Jeff Compton [00:56:22]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:56:22]:
So. And I'm not getting paid to do either inspection. And that's the way, whether I agree with it or not, that's the way my shop and my company does it. And so for me, my mindset is, well, let's just control the things we can control.
Jeff Compton [00:56:40]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:56:41]:
Because I mean, yeah, would I love to get paid for those inspections? Of course. More money, more hours, more money. But at the same time is instead of complaining about it and being like, oh, I just want to get paid. This is worthless. The customer and, and bringing all these downsides to the table, I've just been like, well, how can I use this to my advantage? Because they want me to do it anyways. And if they, if I don't do it, then I'm going to be reprimanded you, if you will. And so I've just then taken the effort to put into these video inspections since we're talking about that. And I've made a way that works for me, okay, that I try to eliminate as much of the advisor as possible because some of our advisors are great and some of them aren't, but we have, I have multiple advisors.
Curtis Gardner [00:57:30]:
So when I do my video, I'm doing everything in my capability where the advisor just has to send the information and I'm Hoping that that's enough to either make the sale or keep the customer informed.
Jeff Compton [00:57:42]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:57:42]:
I think some of the requirements by the, like you said, the companies and the consulting and the industry change. I think some of that is also dealerships trying to save face to a point where they've broken trust and they've lost the transparency. And so this is them trying to get it back. And it does help. I feel like I'm able to build way better communication and connections with the customer, which not every tech wants and most techs don't want. We'll be honest here. And so for me, I'm like, oh, I get to connect with the customer and I like to talk with them and speak with them and show them their car. And that's just something I enjoy doing.
Curtis Gardner [00:58:24]:
So these video inspections benefit me because it helps me do something that I want to do.
Jeff Compton [00:58:29]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [00:58:30]:
But for the people who don't want to do that, it is more work and they're not getting paid and they're not getting compensated and they're not getting the training on how to do it in a way that not just benefits the dealership, but benefits them. And if it's not financially, it needs to be some other type of way.
Jeff Compton [00:58:45]:
Right, good point.
Curtis Gardner [00:58:47]:
A lot of these dealerships are taking advantage of technicians from more points than just the video inspection.
Jeff Compton [00:58:54]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:58:54]:
And I mean, you mentioned earlier about people on Tick Tock and having these conversations about compensation and hourly rate versus flat rate. And I mean, I would never be in the position I'm in financially if it wasn't for flat rate.
Jeff Compton [00:59:08]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [00:59:09]:
But would I enjoy a base or what I enjoy some hourly pay, maybe one week or two weeks when it's slow or I'm not feeling like working tons of hours. Yes, I would enjoy that. But ultimately I would. I think which might be hard for some people to swallow, is that good text will be good texts, bad techs will be bad techs. And if you give incentive to technicians, even if they're at hourly and you say, hey, you hit 50 hours, here's a bump. You hit 60 hours, here's a bump.
Jeff Compton [00:59:38]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [00:59:38]:
And you offer that, but you also give them a base, I think a lot of places will be surprised that their work is going to see stay the same. And you're going to. Those lazy techs are going to shine. They're going to be like, hey, those lazy texts are going to stand out and they're going to be exposed. And I think that's what a lot of people are afraid of, is being Exposed.
Jeff Compton [00:59:59]:
Yeah, I think. And that's like, you know, and my, you know, my experience has been very well documented where it's like my rub was that when everybody was paid the same, you saw guys that just picked the low hanging fruit and they were clocking the most hours every week. And yet they, they couldn't diagnose the tail lamp. They couldn't diagnose, you know, half the no starts that got brought in. They couldn't diagnose certainly if the tranny was in limp or, you know, fuel trim, dtc, they couldn't diagnose it. They could not. They knew the pattern failures and when that didn' work, it had to get kicked to somebody else. And my thing was always like that person that was the somebody else.
Jeff Compton [01:00:43]:
Usually they get a steady diet of those kind of cars and then their true skill is not reflected in their production. Their true skill is reflected in the being able to slow down, back up, read the service information, as my friend Brian Pollock always says, and then dissect what's actually going on. Break it down, fix it, return the car to the customer. That's what they do. The pattern failure didn't stick. They threw the dart at the wall. It didn't stick. Okay, good.
Jeff Compton [01:01:12]:
What do we do now? Well, not everybody knows what to do after the pattern failure. We got one guy, two guys, three guys maybe out of whatever that do. Okay, they got to get it. Then those three guys at the end of the month, end of the year, they look at them and go like, they can't produce. Like that tech over there can. That tech over there that can produce. He's not getting those kind of cars. He's just doing, you know, what he can do.
Jeff Compton [01:01:40]:
And, and the real growth then of a technician I think is we constantly evolve to a certain point where we get, you know, we learn more, we do more, we get more comfortable. I saw a lot of text get stagnant and just like, don't want to learn this, don't want to learn that. Not going to attempt this because the money's not there. And they just stuck to doing the money. So that was my always, my rub was that the technicians that just kind of wanted to stay in that middle ground of producing, they never evolved their skill set, which if they don't have all their skill set down the road, they don't necessarily become those type of people that we need as leaders. They're just cogs in the machine. Nothing wrong with that. But the production is not the true earmarker for me of a Value of a technician.
Jeff Compton [01:02:31]:
It's the. It's the guy or gal that goes in and takes the hard stuff, tackles it, gets it done, you know, doesn't gripe too much about it, and goes on the next day. We have to shift this industry away from just looking at everybody. I don't want to say all the same, but I can tell you that most of the techs I talked to that left, they were all the techs that weren't the highest producing, but they were the biggest problem solvers in their business in the shop that they worked in. And that's why they left, because they were not valued. And value isn't always about pay. Value can be like just somebody saying thanks or acknowledging that. It's like, how do you do that now with today's life? You can't say you're better than everybody else.
Jeff Compton [01:03:17]:
I'm glad to have you. I mean, because, I mean, you could.
Curtis Gardner [01:03:23]:
You could say it in a way that, I mean, we have a guy like that that, that does all the hard stuff and does the really complicated jobs, and could he be compensated better? Absolutely. There's ways to compensate people who aren't just turning and burning a bunch of hours.
Jeff Compton [01:03:38]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [01:03:38]:
But also, like you said, the recognition where it's. It's saying, hey, no one else can figure that out. And you did a great job.
Jeff Compton [01:03:47]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:03:48]:
And then. But I think too many people get their feelings hurt too.
Jeff Compton [01:03:52]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:03:52]:
It's like, well, Curtis, you didn't fix it. So we gave it to Jim over here and he fixed it. So we're gonna tell him, great job. I think that is maybe what you're talking about.
Jeff Compton [01:04:02]:
And it. And it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean that, hey, Curtis, you suck. And Jim's great. It's just saying that, like, I think we need to have this conversation because one day, Curtis, you can get to where Jim is. Right. If we acknowledge that Jim went a little farther than you see, that's. That's. The whole thing is like they want to make the pay, the ear marker of who went farther than the next person, that it's not it.
Jeff Compton [01:04:30]:
The pay is not it. That guy over there, gal, that's like just killing it on the complex stuff. That's your. That's your key player. I don't care what anybody says. They can talk the numbers all they want as long as you have that person. Any car that comes into your business doesn't even have to be a dealership. We could be just any shop.
Jeff Compton [01:04:53]:
Your business will always be Viable because you have that one person that will not give up until they are through to the root of the problem. Now, if you got a whole shop full of killers like that, you've got something. But it hasn't been my experience that you have that. You have the, the, you know, the grinders, the gut that get the car fixed, in and out, done, routine stuff done, no problem. If all you have is those texts, that's when we start to see these customers or these people online, say, my car went back to the dealer five times and nobody could solve this. You know why? Because that person that they had that could solve the problem, you may disagree with cursor, may have seen this happen. That person that could have don't work there anymore, or that person that could, they didn't get that ticket because maybe they said, f you. I had a week last week and I'm tired and I'm not looking at that and it goes to somebody else.
Jeff Compton [01:05:49]:
I'm not saying that's a good attitude, but this is why when we see customers crying all the time about I can't get my car fixed, that's why we're holding them to this. This nonsense of you don't produce enough hours. And yet you're the guy or gal out of 10 of us that could have got to that problem or would spend the time to get to that problem. Everybody, you know, go ahead.
Curtis Gardner [01:06:17]:
So on both sides of flat rate, you have the people who do a terrible job diagnosing, all they want to do is flag hours, and they don't have like a bottom, like a guarantee. And then you have the guys that would spend the time but aren't making any money because they're not compensated properly. So in your opinion, what is a way to solve that? How do you. How do you pay the experienced guy that does, quote, unquote, bad work, but solves all the hard problems, let's say, in a dealership setting.
Jeff Compton [01:06:49]:
So here's where I think we, we fail technicians, it's too much. Like they're wrapped up in how many hours, right? Because to us, what ours just equates is what. What my paycheck says at the end of the week, that's it, right? We all have a minimum and we all have a dream number. You're not going to hit the dream number all the time, but we have a minimum. And I think what in order for these technicians that are going to be steadfast and always do the right thing and find the problem within their ability, within their ability. I got to say that, right. They need their number to be a lot closer to that dream number than what we have been paying them. It shouldn't be.
Jeff Compton [01:07:41]:
Well, what that Guy did at 60 hours of production, he's not or she is not able to do 60 hours of production hypothetically because they're in these nightmare cars. So. But if they got 40 billable, that was all work problematic nightmare stuff. If they got 40 billable and the other one got 60 billable and it's just routine muscle memory kind of stuff, their pain needs to be at least the 60, I'm gonna say needs to be. What's the incentive otherwise to do it right? Otherwise then I want to be that monkey that just hit 60. I don't mean monkey in a disrespectful term. I just mean monkey in the sense of like if it's a circus, we're all monkeys. That's you know what I mean? We're all doing different tasks.
Jeff Compton [01:08:29]:
Monkey's not the right term. I shouldn't use it. But it's got to be like if 60 was the, the top that week and that person hit 40, their pay needs to be at a different level per hour to where they're getting that kind of money. Because otherwise what's the incentive to take the hard cars? There is not. I'd rather I've load lots. I could show you lots of good technicians, Curtis, that would tell me right out when they're last. You know, when they're at the dealer, they stopped getting certified, they stopped taking the. Because they didn't want those nightmare cars because they saw their foreman or they saw their guy with all the the certs, he made less money.
Jeff Compton [01:09:10]:
So what's the incentive if we don't like. It's. It's not. If you're going to put them in a tech in a shop and say you're all going to earn this per hour and you're going to flag a bunch hours. Cool. If you're going to get all these certs and your search bump you hourly rate. Cool. Okay.
Jeff Compton [01:09:27]:
I'm good with that too. But what all comes down to at the end of the week is that if your guy. You're like you call them Jim. If Jim's not the highest paid tech in the shop because Jim will get to the bottom, then the system's broken. I'm sorry. Because when you walk out into the aftermarket sector of this industry and you look at it most of the time Jim is the highest paid tech. He's also in a leadership Role. He's also in a mentorship role as it.
Jeff Compton [01:09:55]:
I feel it should be. And I feel this is where the dealerships have dropped the ball is because we've taken all the gyms and run them out because we say, I would love, I love having you here, but you're not producing enough hours. Jim, go ahead.
Curtis Gardner [01:10:13]:
No, I'll say. I wish I could say that I'm the gym of the shop, but I know how the system works and I know I'm honest enough to know that I'm not going to make a bunch of money regardless of I'm not going to make a bunch of hours if I'm the gym of the shop.
Jeff Compton [01:10:30]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [01:10:31]:
And that's maybe more of a strategy move than anything because like you said, those gyms of the shops, they're not valued because they're not turning those hours right. And the dealerships create these incentive programs around hours and they, around these metrics. And while they're nice to hit, they don't incentivize the guys who fix all the problem cars and keep those customers happy and keep the, the dealership running. And when those gyms leave or they're even on vacation for a week, you really start to see that those cars don't get fixed and they wait around and customers are unhappy. And I wish that the gyms would get more compensation and they would get recognized for having perfect fix ride or fixing that customer car that's been there for two weeks. And you or I, unfortunately can only do so much about that. But I'll, I'll be the first one to tell you that being the gym of the shop stinks.
Jeff Compton [01:11:29]:
Yeah, yeah, I know. I was there. And, and you know, and that's why I've kind of made the shift in my career that I did where I'm not going to go back because I'm not gonna go back and, and take that extra 10% and apply it and watch my pay be, you know, less than somebody. That's not putting the 10% that I would put in. It's just, to me, it just doesn't add up in it, in it. Honestly, from the first day I ever worked in a, in a dealership, it never did make sense because my first days in the dealership I was hourly because I hadn't got my license yet. And when the hourly tech was just a tech that did clean up, they did. And I don't mean clean the shop, I did that too.
Jeff Compton [01:12:11]:
But all the cars that somebody had already been paid out for and misdiagnosed it just went to me. And then so it was like I'm doing everybody else's comebacks. I'm doing a lot of the diags that, you know, didn't. There's a V10, you know, RAM that needs an engine. It's seized up solid, you know, extended warranty. It won't even fit on a hoist. How are we gonna get this engine job done? Give it to the straight time guy. That's Jeff.
Jeff Compton [01:12:40]:
This car left at 2 in the afternoon for a check engine light. It's 6:30 at night, Jeff's on second shift. The car is back with the same check engine line. What do we do? Give it to Jeff. That was just my life. So. And then when the Rays went through the shop, this is kind of. I'm going way back in the day.
Jeff Compton [01:12:59]:
The raise went to everybody but me and everybody said I manager. Why is that? Well, it's just for the flat rate guys, okay? But I fix all their ups. Yeah, but you don't produce enough hours, okay? Because we're not taking the hours back from them that didn't fix the car and crediting me with them. It stays where it stayed. So on paper it looks like I'm not producing anything. The reality is I'm going in and, and you know, keeping the customer satisfied. Now these conversations always sound like me bragging. I'm not saying it's not meant to sound like that, but you know, where I'm coming from.
Jeff Compton [01:13:42]:
It all depends on how they want to play the numbers. So the gym. Until we get it out of our heads that it's all about ours, the gyms in the industry are never going to be really valued. And this is why gyms leave jobs. We're using a lot of Js. Gyms leave jobs and go start their own damn shops. And then they repeat the cycle in the aftermarket that we're facing all the time, which is they're not good business owners, they're just incredible technicians. But they're terrible business people.
Jeff Compton [01:14:13]:
We, we gotta break that. We have to stop the cycle. And people think I got this bone in my, in my craw and I can't get it out. It starts with that P number, that production number. It, it doesn't mean I can manipulate. I did manipulate. I can show you how to do it. I could teach people how to manipulate.
Jeff Compton [01:14:32]:
It. It doesn't mean anything. It. What matters is what you could friggin fix. Your proficiency. If you're not becoming more proficient, you're not. You're not becoming nothing. Sorry.
Curtis Gardner [01:14:48]:
No, you're, you're right. I mean, I, I mean, you're, you're telling it exactly how it is. And it's, you know, it's making me kind of realize that my. I, I love what I do at the dealership, but I also know that being there is. It's exactly. What you're saying is it's a game. You have to know how to play the game. And I know how to play the game.
Curtis Gardner [01:15:10]:
And, you know, does that hose the gyms in my shop? Sometimes. But we also have a shop foreman, that's the gym in our shop. And he gets paid off of shop production, and so he gets paid differently, but he's not the highest paid guy in the shop by any means.
Jeff Compton [01:15:25]:
Yeah. So let me ask you, why is that?
Curtis Gardner [01:15:31]:
Well, that's, I mean, it's not. Whose choice is that, you know, who's making those decisions? He's not turning the hours. That's, that's the truth of it. I mean, he's not, he's not making hours. He's helping people out. And he's valued at this level. But what the real value is here, you can flag 100 hours a week. So we're going to pay you more because you've been more consistent.
Curtis Gardner [01:15:53]:
Sure, you can fix cars and you flag a bunch of hours, but your, you know, your shop foreman or your gym is not getting paid that same because he's not turning hours.
Jeff Compton [01:16:03]:
But Curtis, if we remove the gym from the shop, how long does. Do you think the shop stays before that guy that used to could turn 100 can still turn 100. And not because he can't turn it physically, but because the customers are not there. Then what happens?
Curtis Gardner [01:16:20]:
You're right. I mean, I don't even have to say it. I mean, I know it. I know that my shop and some of the cars that I work on too, would, would. I would not be able to. To put the hours in if he wasn't there. And I wish, you know, I've advocated for him on multiple occasions that, hey, we need to appreciate this guy more.
Jeff Compton [01:16:41]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:16:41]:
And it doesn't. Doesn't matter. And I wish it did matter because I know that our shop would be in shambles if it wasn't for him there. Because when he goes on vacation for a week or two weeks, sure, we can manage. But our, our, our online cases go up. Like our hotline cases go up. We have. I mean, I don't have proof to say that we have more comebacks during that time.
Curtis Gardner [01:17:06]:
But I just see more problems in the shop that kind of get pushed. Oh, we'll just wait till Jim gets back. And it's like, well, all that, you know, why, why can't we figure this out now? Why can't we take the time? And it's like, oh, well, you know, he's the, the, like you said, the compensation guy. He's not the flat rate guy. So that's kind of the thing is his job is to fix the problem. Cars. And so if Jim leaves the shop, we're hosed until we get a new gym who's probably not the same gym.
Jeff Compton [01:17:37]:
How many gyms do you think are out there, Curtis?
Curtis Gardner [01:17:40]:
Two or three.
Jeff Compton [01:17:41]:
Out of how many?
Curtis Gardner [01:17:43]:
40.
Jeff Compton [01:17:45]:
Yeah, that's about the right number I'd think too. So do the math on that. 5% of the industry is a gym. Maybe.
Curtis Gardner [01:17:54]:
Yeah, it's not a lot. I mean I'm, I'm no gym. But I also know that to make money in the industry, you can't be a gym.
Jeff Compton [01:18:01]:
Well, in, in, I'll counter with this. In your environment, you can't be a gym.
Curtis Gardner [01:18:07]:
That's true. I will say that.
Jeff Compton [01:18:09]:
Yeah. But I see what happens. And, and we see it. And again, you know, if you watch enough of my content and you see kind of the people that I networking with, I could show you a hundred gyms that went and started their own business. Right. And some of them are killers now. Like they're phenomenal phenomenal shop owners. But oftentimes what happens, like Dustin Diesel on Tick Tock, there's a super smart, smart check eng super smart guy.
Jeff Compton [01:18:40]:
What do they do? They got fed up being the gym and they went and started their own business. And they're, you know, they're, they're doing it, they're, they're making a career and they're, and they're making a business. But like if you added up the amount of hours that Chuck spends now a week working not just on cars, but on the other stuff that he's constantly working on to, you know, cloning and module repair and stuff to build his business, he's still putting in way more hours than he ever did and any of the shops he's ever at, but he's doing it because like he's trying to, to, to go to that next step. These guys that were like Jim and they go start their own business. I don't know if they ever really make any more money until, for a long time until like the business kind of grows around them and if they keep Their culture, right. It grows around and we start to buck this trend. What happens is I see too many guys like Jim that start their own business and they start cheap. They take every job that they can and they get everything.
Jeff Compton [01:19:42]:
And then before long they're like, they, they don't have time to train. They don't have time to dedicate the time to actually going in and seeing, you know, all this new techno before, you know, it's left them behind. And then they're in this place again where they're like, they're in a shop and they don't know what to do. I used to be a really good tech. They say, fix all the cars. Now I can't hire somebody that's as good as me. Well, that's again, you're one of the 5%. Good luck on hiring another one like you.
Jeff Compton [01:20:12]:
And then even if you wanted to hire another one like you, it's kind of like the conversation that we had that's all over my TikTok right now about what we pay them. Well, how do I make that work? You're not going to make it work. Trying to be the cheapest new shop in town and hire your replacement. You can't do. Doesn't work. So what do you do? I have been for years saying that, like, well, you're gonna go out there and it's because of your business. You're going to take a pay cut and you're going to hire somebody almost as good as you and pay them probably as much, if not more than what you were getting paid at your previous place. And then together you guys work at.
Jeff Compton [01:20:50]:
And instead they always go, I'm not making any money hardly as it is. And they go hire some young person and they try to teach them everything that they can, but the, the numbers just don't work. The young person's not producing enough hours. It doesn't, you know, I can't give them everything that I have to possibly look at. And then the business just starts to spiral of what all these businesses do. So the dealerships, unfortunately, have been awesome at taking some talent and driving it right into the, the aftermarket, you know what I mean? So many technicians I know got fed up and said effort. I'm never working for a dealer again. Chain stores do it too, but the dealers do it even more.
Jeff Compton [01:21:35]:
The dealers are turning out a really high level of talent into the aftermarket sector because of this concept of production and, you know, burning them out until they don't want to be that person anymore because it just doesn't pay. They watch the guy. Like you said, Jim watches a guy turn 60, 80, whatever a week. Jim's lucky to hit 40. And, and we know that Jim's not the highest paid. In Jim's mind, eventually he knows he should be because he can see that when he's not there, the effect that it has. But yet the dealer says, I can't make the money work. I can't, I can't pay you that because you're not producing enough hours.
Jeff Compton [01:22:12]:
The dealer is where they're missing the point. And it. My argument has always been the dealer knows that they can pay him and they know that they can find the money. They just don't want to take it from where that should be taken to pay Jim. That's a whole other conversation for a different day. That's. That's a different kind of. Curtis.
Jeff Compton [01:22:30]:
Let me ask you then, if you're not the gym of the shop, two questions. What makes Jim different than you? If there is anything, just a choice, or do you ever want to be the gym? And I think you've already kind of answered that you don't want to be.
Curtis Gardner [01:22:48]:
I'll start with the latter question and saying if I was on a pay plan that wasn't flat rate, would I put in the time and effort to be the gym of the shop? Absolutely.
Jeff Compton [01:22:59]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [01:23:00]:
I think for the. Exactly the reason we're talking about it, I know that they're not compensated properly and I know that there's no like huge ceiling for the gym of the shop. So I know, I just know that it's not something that I want to do because it would put myself in a bind and it would hurt me more than help me. Would I like to kind of saying that? Would I like to open my own shop someday not being the gym of the shop? Yeah, I think just thinking of bigger picture wise, but I also want to be able to spend the time to learn those cars to solve the hard problems and not get hosed. And I. That's just not where the dealership life is at right now.
Jeff Compton [01:23:38]:
So is the flat rate and the hosing, as you say. How do you think that's for the mental health of a lot of us technicians right now?
Curtis Gardner [01:23:47]:
Well, I think, I think flat rate in general and compensation in general in the automotive industry is hurting technicians because when you can't make those hours and you can't make the money to pay your bills to. I don't want to say feed your family because that's pretty extreme, but that does get There to that point where you can't make your mortgage payment, you can't make your car payment and you start getting in debt and you start losing, you know, you can't make the money, you can't make the hours. And whether it's because you're the diagnosis diagnostic tech or it's because there's no cars coming into shop. I mean that burden that it puts on individuals in the shop is something that most of us just keep quiet about when no one talks about it or if they do talk about it, it's not heard, it's just talked about in deaf ears because everyone doesn't want to. It's such a hard conversation to have.
Jeff Compton [01:24:38]:
Yeah. And, and we've seen, I mean I've seen it, you might have heard it that everybody says well you know, it's not to feed their family. Like there's too many technic technicians are terrible with money. They're terrible management, you know, money management, you know, you know they all want fast cars and, and you know, fancy boats and a bunch of gun this like they're living above their means. I think that what we innately want to do is we want kind of the same stuff that like what Jim wants is the same kind of lifestyle that the 60, 80, whatever, you know, the, the, the golden child shop tech in the shop what affords himself. I think that's what we all want. I know a lot of techs, especially when you get it in the aftermarket, sometimes they resent the owner. I know I was that tech like this guy's not paying me squat and you know he's got a classic car collection and they've got a, you know, a half a million dollar yacht down at the Kingston harbor like that this was all real and we resent them because it's like I want some of that and I don't even want a half a million dollar yacht in the harbor.
Jeff Compton [01:25:49]:
I just want a bass boat down at, you know, the corner like in my driveway that I can go fish out of. Not you know, a 14 foot with a 10 horse on the back. That's all I can afford. You know what I mean? Like we want to bring the pay a little bit closer. So I don't think that it's living above their means so much. It's just that they, they're starting to learn their value. And this is what's scaring a lot of people in the industry is they're starting to really realize that like, like I've been saying for, I've been Saying online for almost 20 years, the technician's the product. It's not.
Jeff Compton [01:26:27]:
Audi isn't the product. Audi can be bought other places in Houston besides where you work. But if Howdy continues to sell well at your dealership, it's because it has a reputation for good sales experience and being able to take care of the car after it's sold to the customer. That's the text, that's not the salesman. The salesman only has to make the sale. And this is the thing, we're seeing it. Where's a Hyundai or Kia now? They're going to sell cars on Amazon. Like, if you think that the days of the.
Jeff Compton [01:27:02]:
The golden children being in the sales department of the dealership, you're crazy. The, the key players are going to be in the service department. And if you don't have them, you're not going to have a dealer because nobody will bring the car back if you're known as not being able to fix it. So if you run gyms off and you just have a bunch of guys that can service this and do the recall on that, but you can't solve the car that, you know, is a nightmare. Do you think they're necessarily going to trade it back into you and buy another one? No, they might, but that doesn't solve anything. Right. And, and eventually the reputation gets out there that it's like they've got nobody to fix the cars.
Curtis Gardner [01:27:50]:
Well, that. And you got the people who are sending those huge estimates in the shop just trying to make. Whether they're trying to make a living or that's actually wrong with the car.
Jeff Compton [01:27:58]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:27:59]:
Then you got those that deter customers from coming back.
Jeff Compton [01:28:02]:
Yeah, well, and we talk about that. You know, guys get a little. There was a conversation that came up, you know, because a shop owner asked it, if you have a wheel bearing go bad on a car, do you sell both wheel bearings? And everybody kind of went, excuse me. Huh? What? Well, and, and there were some good arguments that why you might make. Well, they're both the same age. You don't want to have to deal with the comeback of it six months later. If the customer's back, they're going to feel maybe like, you know, they were. We didn't do a good job.
Jeff Compton [01:28:35]:
If you have to pull the spindle off or whatever, press the ball joint out, you got to ding him for an alignment. Again, there's all kinds of arguments on the side of it, but there's that kind of conversation that was like, what's the right way to do? And it was Kind of split. And the other thing is like we see it where you take your car in and it's like, well, Audi says you shouldn't change the fluid until whatever, a hundred thousand miles. But then you see a bunch of techs that are struggling for work and they're trying to sell that fluid recommendation at 80,000 miles. Right. Based on. I took a test strip. Look at the color of it.
Jeff Compton [01:29:08]:
Right. Are they advocating for the customer at that point? Yeah, they don't want to see the transmission fail. But what's pushing the advocacy, the fact that they need to produce hours. You know, that's my thing about this. That's why I think it's the mental health thing is where they're not. It's going to open a can of worms when we really start to see. And we're already seeing it, the fallout. Why? Because you can pick another skilled trade and go to work tomorrow and just install AC units.
Jeff Compton [01:29:41]:
And if we all of a sudden have a summer that ain't that hot and nobody's AC unit breaks or we don't like, they don't buy as many. He's not going home at the end of the year with less money. He's just having a lighter season. But in our industry, we never have a light season. Never gets better for us. When we have a light season, we suffer. And that's. Yeah, that's the thing that people don't want to talk about, you know.
Curtis Gardner [01:30:12]:
Well, especially full flat rate is, is those customers start. Stop coming in and, or even just like a slow season. Let's, like for me, this year has been terribly slow. And so it's those, you know, you don't have those cars coming in. Then tech start getting a little bit desperate or maybe like you said, over, you know, trying to sell a little too soon or being like, well, this category three leak is. Or this category two leak maybe category three, let's maybe push it a little harder. And it might not be the right thing to do, but it gets done because, well, you can't bring home 20 hours a week. That ain't gonna work.
Jeff Compton [01:30:52]:
No.
Curtis Gardner [01:30:53]:
And some people are out there are, are in a position where they can do that and feel comfortable with their, your financial situation. But 90, 80 of the technicians in the world can't go from making 60 hours a week to 20 hours a week for a year or a few months or a month.
Jeff Compton [01:31:14]:
Yeah, they can't. Their, their lifestyle would change. You're going to talk right then and there about like if they're. Well, if they're lucky enough to have a home, how do you make the mortgage payment? You know, if you are not working, like not living in your own home and you pay rent and you have a car payment, which do you pay that month to pay your car payment? Or do you pay your rent? Do you pay your tool bill? Like do your kids get signed up for, you know, extracurricular sports, dance lessons. Right. Or, or softball or up here hockey? Any of those things that cost a lot of money to put kids in. All of a sudden it's, if you like your pay dips from 60 to 20 things, sacrifices are made. And here's the thing, the generation previous, I think a lot of us that go, all these young kids are soft.
Jeff Compton [01:32:05]:
Like they don't, you know, a lot of them, when things got tough, they went and did a bunch of side work. And I'm not trying to steer the conversation to, to a different topic that's. We've already been down that road. But what that does to the industry long term is it cheapens it. So yes, you managed to grind and hustle, you managed to keep the roof over your head and the lights on and the food fed and all, all that stuff. Good. No problems with that. But what you did was you watered down the, the, the, the skilled trade in your local area because people found you.
Jeff Compton [01:32:42]:
Now that would work for 200 bucks. You know, you would go home and do that cylinder head job or that transmission re and re, you know, for half the price of what a shop would.
Curtis Gardner [01:32:53]:
Because dealerships, the company that I work for, it's a fireable offense to be doing side work. And so I mean, specific to, if I were to go work on Audi, not that I want to, just because I do it all day, I kind of want to have my home time for my family. But is if they for some reason catch wind that you're doing that, well, now you're out of a job completely.
Jeff Compton [01:33:16]:
Wow.
Curtis Gardner [01:33:17]:
And you can't make that extra cash on the side. So there's that type of thing too where these dealerships have these, these, these rules. And I get it, I mean they want to make sure their customers are their customers. I understand it, it's. But they make it hard when, if I'm, I'm not working on any cars because there's no cars coming in.
Jeff Compton [01:33:35]:
Right.
Curtis Gardner [01:33:36]:
Well, what am I supposed to do?
Jeff Compton [01:33:37]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:33:38]:
Like if I can't, I can't use my trade to make more money outside of work where there's no money to make, what am I supposed to do? And then they get upset when you try to do something out of work, like, you know, try to create a side business or create something on the side, like, oh, no, you're done. And then it's like you're stuck. You're stuck not making any money because they won't let you. And you're stuck not making any money because they can't give you the work to make the money.
Jeff Compton [01:34:03]:
Yep.
Curtis Gardner [01:34:04]:
And that just creates, like, this whole ball of like. Like in your head, you're, like, just gonna explode because you can't do anything no matter what. And then you just, like, keep all this. This pressure and this stress and this inside. And then, I mean, I don't want to talk about suicide, but people make those decisions when this comes down to a boiling point. And it's just like, when are we going to figure out that we need to meet in the middle and help these people who are struggling? When the dealerships put them in such. And not dealerships, but maybe just shops in general put these technicians in such a tight spot where they're not being compensated.
Jeff Compton [01:34:43]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:34:43]:
Like, if. If it's slow because I made a mistake and I can't make the money, if it's slow because I can't diagnose a car, sure, I maybe make less money that week. But if it's slow because there's no cars to work on and that dealership can't provide me with the work, why do I have to suffer from that if I'm going crazy when it's busy?
Jeff Compton [01:35:03]:
Well, here's. And here's the other thing. Bringing it back to our friend Jim. What if the dealer can't all of a sudden provide that? Because 18 months a year, two years ago, they ran off gym, and now we're seeing the effect of less cars coming in, you know, and it doesn't even have to always be attacked. Say they fire an advisor. That's really good. Right. Say they make a sales choice in the sales department, and all of a sudden that's not always as good.
Jeff Compton [01:35:29]:
But I mean, I saw dealers that, like, one salesman would move to a different dealer, and all of a sudden their car count for sales went way down. Because everybody in the local area, he was involved. He knew a bunch of people that's. Listen, when I'm buying a Chrysler, I'm going to see Brian. Brian doesn't work at this Chrysler store anymore. He goes. And you'd see it. He'd put it sometimes an ad in a newspaper.
Jeff Compton [01:35:50]:
Now at Facebook's wonderful thing, everybody knows you know, he puts an ad on his Facebook saying, hey, I'm now gone to the other Chrysler store or the other Audi store. All his established customers follow him and buy it. Buy the car from them because they trust him. Well, he just brings something to that dealer that benefits all the other departments within the dealer. And yeah, and Jim that left, he's taking customers with him, not because he poached them, but the fallout is, Jim is there. People are like, f this, I'm not going back to whatever Binghamton Audi as an example of a name. I'm going to, you know, Jones Audi. Because, like being can't fix it.
Jeff Compton [01:36:33]:
That's this kind of stuff that happens in the dealership. No matter what. I keep harping on it. They don't listen to my podcast. Unfortunately, a lot of them, they're not getting it. They're not that one key figure, two key three. Three guys or gals in the back that are doing those complex cars. They're bringing in everything for everybody else.
Jeff Compton [01:36:53]:
It's their reputation is. Is them. You burn them out, you piss them off, you drive them out, do whatever. It will have repercussions that you cannot recover from with just running an oil change special or doing a better DBI or running a tire pro. You can't do it. You can't. I guarantee you can. I've seen it.
Jeff Compton [01:37:16]:
It doesn't work. And, and this is the thing I'm about empowering technicians to realize if you're one of those folks, gyms, know your worth. Don't be an a hole to your employer. But like, make sure that you have a ripple when you leave this, that employer, you have a ripple. David Klein, that we talked about, like, you know, the, the episode, they reached out to me. That guy has a ripple everywhere that he goes, what he can do in a shop, right when they don't want to lose him because he says, when I go on a week's holidays, the shop, just like when you're talking about Curtis with Jim, the shop's not the same. It doesn't hit the numbers, it doesn't have, it doesn't flow smooth. All that.
Jeff Compton [01:38:05]:
When you are that technician and you know, you're that technician, man, make that worth something. That's what I. That's my advice to people. And your mental health, when you know, becomes a lot better. For sure.
Curtis Gardner [01:38:24]:
Yeah, I think, I think that's right. Is when you can support the support or know, maybe not support, but know your value when you, you make that jump. Or when you decide that, hey, Shop, Shop A is not holding me to the set, to the standard that I see myself at. And I want to move to Shop B. But also, don't let Shop B give you the runaround too, because. But some people are, a lot of people are scared to make that jump. I don't know how many people in my DMs or, hey, I don't like it here. And not even gyms at the dealership.
Curtis Gardner [01:38:58]:
I'm talking entry level, two years, three years. They'll be like, hey, I'm not happy here, I'm afraid to leave, I'm so nervous. And like, should I quit? And they're like, they'll ask me for, should I do this, should I do that? And it's just like, it's insane that there's two year technicians feeling this way. You signed up to be a technician and you're already feeling this way. Well, good luck. I hope you make the right decision because in eight more years, you're going to feel that way even more.
Jeff Compton [01:39:25]:
So. Yeah. What do you tell them then, Curtis? Because I can tell you what I tell them, but I want to hear what you tell them.
Curtis Gardner [01:39:29]:
I will be as honest as I can and say, find a, find a brand that you enjoy. Find a brand in a car company you enjoy and then find a dealership that you enjoy that like, you've heard good things about. And then go out and do those things like, don't wait around. I know it's risky, I know it's scary, but most of these young guys, what I'll tell them is make that jump because you're not going to regret it if you stay where you're at. You're going to hate what you do, you're going to hate your life and you're going to regret that you never took that leap years ago. I mean, I'm in a position now where I'm financially stuck at the dealership that I make. It's because the hours, the environment, the situation, I mean, this is a number of things. The company I work for puts me in a great position to make a ton of hours.
Curtis Gardner [01:40:13]:
And if I see my one day, if I want to become that gym, I'm stuck. And so for me, I always tell these young guys is don't get stuck. Because once you're stuck making a ton of money and you're stuck making those hours, it's going to be near impossible for you to make that change because you've put yourself in a financial bind. And so I just tell them, take the leap if you want to work somewhere else, do it, try it.
Jeff Compton [01:40:37]:
So let's back up then. Like, if you, you think you're kind of stuck right now, Curtis. Oh, for sure. If you could go back, what would you do different?
Curtis Gardner [01:40:48]:
I would. Well, I don't know if I would do it differently. I might have learned some new skills earlier along the way to prepare myself to be an entrepreneur and do some other stuff sooner. I think besides just, oh, I'm just going to go to work every day and not worry about it. Maybe I would have gone to school to learn something, taking some online courses. I would have put myself in a position to learn things outside of being a technician so I could own my own shop, own my own business, do something besides being in a, you know, position now where as a technician at a dealership, it's. I'm going to have to take a pay cut and probably an hourly rate cut to go to maybe a shop that I feel better about. My shop is great.
Curtis Gardner [01:41:34]:
Let's not get confused. If I wanted to be a technician forever, this place that I work is absolutely fantastic. I just have more aspirations.
Jeff Compton [01:41:41]:
Right, okay, you're going back to what you were talking about within your two year old tech comes to you on your DMS and says, hey, I'm thinking about quitting. I'm kind of in a different place than you because, like, I kind of, I delve into each one and talk about, like, because I get those calls too. And I'm like, well, what's your situation like? And what, and what are you doing to, what are you doing to grow yourself? And if they say, you know, I'm not really, I'm not being, I'm not getting the growth at the opportunities I'm not getting, I'll be like, okay, so what are you doing for training? They go, training. They're not giving me any. Okay, what are you doing for training outside of what they want to provide for you? Like, do you, do you take training on YouTube? Do you follow these people? You know, are you involved with this kind of stuff? Do you know who some of the key players are on, you know, Tick Tock and you know, Instagram that are in the space? If they say no, I say, okay, so you have to go and find these people and you have to start building yourself. But I also tell a lot of them, curse. I'll tell you straight out. I tell a lot of them, if you're two years in and you're hating it, get out.
Jeff Compton [01:42:47]:
Because you don't have hopefully a massive tool debt yet. You might have just a little bit. Get out. Because like, the last thing I want to see, I talk about all the time is these young people. There's a. There's a snap on toolbox for sale right now, Facebook Marketplace in my area that was sold to the. Valued at $18,000 when the kid bought it. I say, kid, I don't know.
Jeff Compton [01:43:11]:
He's selling it for $4,000. Like, you tell me he's keeping all the tools, he just wants to get rid of the box. You tell me that's not somebody that's probably getting out of the industry. Yeah, it's happening all the time, right. So I tell them, if you're not happy, if you've already got this realization that like, oh, crap, this isn't what I thought it was going to be like. I thought it was going to be fun and it's not. It's a grind and it sucks. I tell them like, like, you gotta.
Jeff Compton [01:43:41]:
If you are sick in the head, you want to become the next gym, then there's no hope for you. Just buckle down, train, and you'll become the next gym if that's what you really want to do. But if you just thought this was going to be fun and you were going to make 100k a year and, and, you know, play with fun cars, that's not it. And you better get out and just like, you know, take up H Vac or take up like go be an electrician. The amount of technicians I know that have left and gone into becoming electricians is crazy. Crazy because we don't. The H Vac isn't as big up here. We don't, you know, like AC is like, you know, lots of houses in Canada don't turn it on or don't fix it because it's not terrible.
Jeff Compton [01:44:22]:
We only need a few months of the year. But, you know, there are lots of them left to be plumbers, lots of them left to be electricians. I talked about the local Goodyear factory here, sapped up a bunch of talent because they all just go and fix those machines.
Curtis Gardner [01:44:36]:
I've told technicians what you've said before, that if they're that like, if. Well, you know, delve into the conversation a little bit with them. But if they come out saying they want to be techs, that goes the way I spoke earlier. But if they don't, like I say the same thing as you is if you're 20 to 25, even 30, I mean, 30 is a little late, but like, do what's best for you and don't let a two or three dollar pay raise convince you because you're only going to be that happy for a little bit and then you're just going to be in the same boat. And that shop will string you along for years and years. Oh, you want to. Here's a couple dollars, here's a couple dollars. And then you're 10 years in and you're like, wow, what am I doing with my life? I should have left eight years ago because I really didn't like this at all.
Jeff Compton [01:45:19]:
I know, I don't know, maybe you meet them. I know I'm 50 and the amount of technicians that I've met in my career that were close to my age that all said the same thing. I should have got out 10 years ago. Like, I should have, I should have never done this. Like I. But a lot of them, like, they weren't going to go to college, they weren't going to go to university, they just had a knack, right? And the knack put them in a job where they could make a living and, you know, they eked out a career but now they, they've got a box full of tools, they've got, you know, bum knees, bum shoulders, bum backs and, and they're like, I should have got out of this 20 years ago. I should have went applied myself differently. I was that guy five years ago.
Jeff Compton [01:46:05]:
I was still that guy three years ago. But it's one of those things where, you know, we keep, in this industry talking about why, you know, the young people are not coming in and they're not staying and it's, it comes right back to what we've been talking about tonight. The, the culture of the business has got to change. It won't you dealerships are not going to have technicians on staff if they don't get ahead of this problem. I don't care what they say, oh, we're going to do this and we're going to pay them. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. With everything in costs going up in every job, paying their people more.
Jeff Compton [01:46:44]:
It doesn't matter if all of a sudden every technician starts to make 100k a year. If they could make 80k a year doing something with way less of the mental anguish. There's a lot of people that will still take the 20k loss because it's just at the end of the day they can go home and, and relax and know that I go in tomorrow, rinse, wash, repeat, and I make the same amount of money. We're killing our people because we're making them, like, bear all the brunt of all the other bad decisions in the business. Right. If they make somebody else makes a bad decision, makes a management change, makes. And the numbers drop out of the bottom. Yes, everybody feels it, but the technicians feel it the most.
Jeff Compton [01:47:30]:
And that's why we have such the problem with the mental health and the technicians that we do. That's why. Because it's the unsteadiness of knowing I may not make anything tomorrow, or it's the. It's the impending gloom of knowing that, like, I'm 30 and I got 20 more years of this and I don't see it getting better for me because I can't get to Jim's level for whatever reason, or I can't get to Curtis's level, or I'm already at that level and I'm bored or, you know, like, we made a manager change and all of a sudden he hates my guts because he doesn't think I should be getting a guarantee. Like, this is the stuff that plays in our head all day long. And then they wonder why we're sick. And when they wonder why we, you know, some of us drink too much and, and, you know, divorce is such a rampant thing in technicians. It's not even funny.
Jeff Compton [01:48:27]:
They want to.
Curtis Gardner [01:48:28]:
You spend a lot of time, you know, if you're. The more your time you're there, the more time, the more money you can make. Yeah, I think, I think a lot of the stuff I've been posting online has been conversations and where I'm wearing a suit or talking and, you know, I don't get a post from my shop anymore. But I think that there's a right way to go about having these conversations with these dealerships and these service managers and these owners and. And I think that some of them are interested and I think they don't want to hear like, the. The com. I want to say complaining, but, you know, if you want to have a conversation with the, with the people who make the higher decisions, you need to rise to their level and you just speak to them in a way that they understand. And I've been getting a lot of heat from that because I'm wearing a suit and it's like, oh, and, you know, the things that people say are awful on social media.
Curtis Gardner [01:49:23]:
But at the end of the day, my mission is to advocate for technicians and I want to help technicians and I understand the system enough to know that if I just sit here and complain on social media and I just don't try to do anything about like with your. You talking to people and talking to industry leaders and talking to technicians and getting the voices out there. That's the type of stuff we need. We don't need people, you know, harassing into comments and going on and making these videos. We need people to have conversations at the table with the owners and with the service managers and talking to them in a way that, I mean, if I were to go to have one of these conversations and they're talking about Flat rate, which I have a conversation coming up about that and I'm excited because I'm going to bring into it some of the stuff about mental health. It says if flat rate is so important, let's say that Fixed Op manager is making $500,000 more per year on Flat Rate. Is that worth someone's life? I mean, that's extreme. It's very extreme.
Curtis Gardner [01:50:29]:
But at the same time is they don't know what's going on with that technician. They don't know what's going on. They don't know there's decisions in their livelihood. So is that $500,000 worth it? Because sometimes it feels like that's more important. But if we want to have those conversations, we need to rise to the level and rise to the occasion and wear the suits and represent ourselves in a professional manner.
Jeff Compton [01:50:52]:
Yeah.
Curtis Gardner [01:50:53]:
And so I. There's one thing that I hope that this conversation does is realize that I'm on the technician side and I will always be on the technician side even if I become an owner, become a manager, whatever the future has for me. Talking in front of people and talking at these groups and these tables with people is nerve wracking. And sometimes it's hard to have these conversations and I get nervous and I get anxious. But you know, maybe some of the things I say are come off across as, you know, managerial or the owner's. I think of the owner's son or something like that. And ultimately is I'm nervous having these conversations too. I'm advocating for not just myself, but for a lot of people.
Curtis Gardner [01:51:41]:
And you know, it's a tough situation for me, but at the end of the day, I want to help technicians increase their value and I want to help technicians relieve some of that mental stress and that mental suffering that Flat Rate brings to the table. And Flat rate is great for some people, but it needs to evolve into something that benefits the gyms and the Curtis's and the new guys and not just to rush those repairs and not to, you know, get stuck On Huge Diag. But to do what's best for the customer and do what's best for the technician. And in turn, if you're taking care of your people and you're taking care of your customers, that dealership or that shop will profit. We just need to be done in the right order.
Jeff Compton [01:52:26]:
Yeah. Going back to what we talked about, the David Klein episode that, you know, kind of helped me find you. Well, David hit with me a bunch. Is that like, he missed a lot of things with his children and he. It's things he can't get back. And I. I don't know your situation, and that's. That's fine.
Jeff Compton [01:52:47]:
But the technicians that are listening, like, I know so many techs that are older my age that, like, when they did the. The moon lighting, the shade treeing stuff, they missed out on so much. And yeah, maybe they did that because, like, they wanted to have a race car, you know, and that took time or, you know, they wanted their wife to be home, the kids to be homeschooled. So they piled a bunch of work in, you know, after hours, trying to find that balance of being able to walk away at the end of it, hang up your hat at the end of it all and say, I didn't miss. You know, I'm good. I didn't miss, I don't know, too many that can look back and not have a ton of regrets on the stuff that they missed while they were making money. And I think that that's the other thing that we're. We're not talking about enough in the industry.
Jeff Compton [01:53:38]:
And for 20, 26, I want to move forward with talking about it more is that it's not the young people, it's not that, like, they're lazy, but they value that time away from work way more than my parents generation did, way more than I did. It took me a long time to really. I valued when I wasn't at work because I loved being. I love the challenge of work. Now I want to go to work, but I want to be able to leave work at work, and I want to enjoy my. I want to work for my leisure time. When we go home at night and we hustle and we grind and we, you know, shade tree. That's all stuff you can't get back.
Jeff Compton [01:54:18]:
That's hours at the end of the day that you can't get back. J. Cole that I had on, he talks about that right now. He is working very hard, but he's missing a lot of stuff, and he doesn't want to Miss a lot of stuff forever. And, you know, that's not just a problem with our industry. It's parents all over the world happening, you know, they miss things. But our industry, because of what we could do, where our skill set would allow, we never had a shortage. If you wanted to work from the time you got off work at five until midnight, lots of guys did that.
Jeff Compton [01:54:51]:
Two in the morning, three in the morning, they made, made a killing. Made a killing. They brag about that. And then you see them and it's like they don't have good relationships with their children because they don't really. They're not bonded. They don't know. Like, dad was always busy. My own father, I could tell you stories.
Jeff Compton [01:55:10]:
So people are listening. This isn't about flat rate. It's not about. It's about knowing your value, knowing that there's nothing wrong with a technician wanting to go to work and only work Monday to Friday and only, you know, clock out at 5 and be able to leave it at home and make a decent enough living that they're not stressed to the point of where their marriage is starting to fall apart or they're thinking, you know, crazy suicidal thoughts and they want to have strong family relationships. If we just say, too bad the shop's not making money, like go home and do side work, that's not the answer. And we know it's not the answer. And this is the thing with too many years, they just said, oh, well, the younger generation is not going to do it and they shouldn't have to do it. That's the other thing.
Jeff Compton [01:56:12]:
They should not have to. Because the other ones, the other skilled trades, they don't do it. Not to the level that we do it at. And this is not about shade tree as, you know, side work. It's not what this whole conversation about. It's just don't think of it as the solution because it isn't one. It's a detriment.
Curtis Gardner [01:56:35]:
I'm going through that same exact thing now is my kids are 3 and 4 and I used to go in early, stay late. And then, you know, the technician in me, I get, excuse me, I get to four or five o' clock and I know that I can get that work done. I know that I can stay late. But I also, I have kids at home that say, daddy, why do you gotta go to work? Stay home? Yeah, that's one of the hardest things is like, trust me, little buddy, I don't want to go to work. Like, I don't want to go there and spend my day there. I would rather stay at home with you. And so that's something new for me that I'm struggling with as the work hard technician but also as a father and a husband is, is I'm trying to be more father, husband and let's grind my life away at work. And so I'm struggling with exactly.
Curtis Gardner [01:57:22]:
What you said is it doesn't need to be that way. It doesn't need to be 12 plus hours a day to make a good living. It doesn't need to be that.
Jeff Compton [01:57:30]:
Yeah, I don't, I don't. I said it to conversation earlier. My goal when I got into this was never to take a dealership and make that dealer owner another million dollars in the next quarter to put in their retirement fund. That was never my goal. And I think too many times we don't want to talk about it. And you're not at the level where I'm at. But I could sit and have those conversations all day long and look at them in a straight face and say, because that's what's expected when you go to work as a dealer owner. A lot of you, I understand it's not easy, but a lot of you are playing on such a different level than what the people that work for you are.
Jeff Compton [01:58:06]:
You've forgotten. And this is the, this is it. I'm not there to make you a multi millionaire. I'm there to provide for my family. And if you're going to tell me that I'm not worth paying what I feel I'm worth somebody else right now in this industry, in this marketplace that we're in, I guarantee you somebody else will. And this is the people that are listening. That's the reality. You know it.
Jeff Compton [01:58:34]:
You're all running ads, you're all trying to hire competent, qualified people like Curtis and you can't find them because you've lost sight of what somebody like Curtis wants for Curtis and what he's really, truly worth to the bottom line. And when you pull your heads out of your butt and realize it, things will, the ship will write its way, but right now it ain't happening. And I hats off to people that are figuring out their worth, I talk to them every day. And it is, it does my heart good to know that the conversations that Curtis is having, the conversations that I'm having, they're being heard and people are realizing. And I'm not wishing any ill on the people that are, you know, own dealerships or own shops. I'm not wishing you any ill but you have to stop thinking that your customers can't pay. And that's why I can't give Curtis more money. That's all bullshit.
Jeff Compton [01:59:30]:
And if you. If. Even if you don't think the customers can't pay, you just don't want to give it out of your own pocket, see how that goes for you. I guarantee it's not gonna go well. So, Curtis, that's enough of the rant tonight. Thank you for having on. Closing thoughts. Where do you want to be in five years, Curtis? Tough question.
Curtis Gardner [01:59:54]:
I want to be doing something for myself that allows freedom to have my own schedule.
Jeff Compton [01:59:59]:
Okay.
Curtis Gardner [02:00:01]:
I don't want to sit around and be on vacation all day. That's just not who I am. But I want to do something that's building for my future and essentially building for my family's future. Right now. The dealership life suits that. But I'm definitely in the works on some things that I hope in five years are to fruition.
Jeff Compton [02:00:20]:
Yeah. Well, as always, I hope that we can have you back on at some point and keep in touch with where you're headed and what you're doing. And, you know, you and I are relatively new friends, but, I mean, we need to have a lot more of these conversations behind the scenes. And I think you need to keep me in the loop of what's going on and what you're thinking about. And, you know, some of the people that are. Are reaching out to you. If you want to give them a slightly different perspective, send them my way. You know, not.
Jeff Compton [02:00:49]:
And I don't mean that in a bad way, but you know what I mean. Right? Like, I can kind of give it a little more. This is. How old are you to 30?
Curtis Gardner [02:00:56]:
34.
Jeff Compton [02:00:58]:
So this is the 50 year old. Right. And you know, we want to see the young people succeed. That's the why I do this. I don't do this for text. My own age. The guys that are already my age and still doing it, we've figured out how to survive it. But I do this, and you do this, I think, for the young people that are coming after you.
Jeff Compton [02:01:18]:
And that's why I do it. And I want to thank you for everything you're doing for the industry. I think it's great. And people. Where can they find Curtis?
Curtis Gardner [02:01:28]:
Well, right now, my biggest thing is Instagram at Tecnar with two Rs. It's T, E, C, H, G, N, A, R, R. It's a little hard to spell. I'm also on LinkedIn as well. Pretty becoming pretty popular on LinkedIn and tick knock Tick Tock is also Technar.
Jeff Compton [02:01:47]:
So yeah, yeah, trying to get out there. Yeah. I first saw him on Instagram, I see him a lot more now on Tick Tock and everybody, you know where to find me. I'm over on LinkedIn, but I'm not very active. They're not my people over there. I'll just tell you that right now.
Curtis Gardner [02:02:03]:
It's definitely a different crowd.
Jeff Compton [02:02:06]:
Oh, a lot of the people that I tend to run down to hang out in that crowd. So yeah, they don't really get me. And that's okay. It's all right. You know, there's some good folks over there. I'm not trying to say that, but I mean a lot of the people like that, you know, so and so, dealer principal, so and so dealer principal is like, they're not going to want to hear me.
Curtis Gardner [02:02:28]:
Yeah, it's much more business and business forward and stuff like that. And so it's allowed me to grow in some other areas that are important to the bigger picture.
Jeff Compton [02:02:37]:
Yeah. But Curtis, thanks for being here tonight, brother. I appreciate you. And as always, all my listeners, we got some really cool episodes coming up. ASTA is in six weeks, so all of you that are listening, if you have are on the fence about going to asta, go to asta. Trust me, the who's who of the Internet automotive realm are gonna be there. Not just me, but other people that you know. And I can honestly say this, it's an amazing event.
Jeff Compton [02:03:11]:
And you know, we've got four Tech J. Cole is going, Brandon Sloan, Chuck Engine Chuck. Like, we've got some really cool cats from the online space that are attending. So if you're thinking about I only want to go one event this year, that's the event to go to. And I always say it's a life changing event. When you go to it, it changes you. You realize that you're not alone. And Curtis, you're not alone, man.
Jeff Compton [02:03:37]:
I know exactly where you're coming from. So everybody, I love you all. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the Changing the Industry podcast.
Jeff Compton [02:04:09]:
Remember what I always say in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter and we'll see you all again next time.