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The Smoke Trail, hosted by Smoke Wallin, is a journey into awakening consciousness, weaving authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests to unlock high performance and perfect health. Each episode delves into spirituality, leadership, and transformation, offering tools to transcend trauma and find your bliss along the way. It’s a reflective space for achieving peak potential and inner peace in a distraction-filled world.
Welcome to the Smoke Trail hosted by Smoke Wallin. Join Smoke on a unique journey of awakening consciousness, sharing authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests. Explore spirituality, leadership and transformation, tools to elevate your path.
Smoke:In this episode of the Smoke Trail, I interview Robert Vera, who's the founding director of Canyon Ventures Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship at Grand Canyon University. He works alongside students and community founders to help to turn their visions into successful business. And under Robert's leadership, the center has accelerated and the growth of over 40 startups and exit seven companies into the Phoenix, Arizona market collectively valued at over 200,000,000. After spending the day there with Robert and some of the students, entrepreneurs, I came away just completely enthusiastic and excited about, a, this generation, b, what the future holds and all the abundance that can be created around entrepreneurship and with a faith based, alignment, which is what Grand Canyon University has. So I hope you enjoy this series of interviews.
Smoke:I talked to Robert and then three of the student entrepreneurs and profiled their businesses. So pick and choose, jump around, but it's a re great conversations and I hope they inspire you as much as they inspired me. It's a really cool thing. Thank you. Robert, welcome to Smoke Trail.
Robert:It's great to be here, Smoke. So thanks for having me. I've looked been looking forward to this.
Smoke:Thanks for hosting. It's what a what an amazing place. I have to say, you know, having now met some of the entrepreneurs and students and spent time here walking around and it's my second time here. It's such a powerful energy field you have built.
Smoke:And it's it's so positive and and conducive to creativity and supporting each other. Mean it's really awesome.
Robert:Thank you. I think that when you said that the energy when you walk in you feel there's something different. You're not quite sure what it is. And we have I mean we're agnostic right. We a lot of different companies here.
Robert:You know oftentimes when people come in there's a there's a company that does sewing or seaming there. And they're like I know they want to ask me is this a sweatshop? I mean what do you guys do here? But the energy is is really when you walk in you know there's something different going on here. You know there's something unique here.
Robert:And there's just this amalgamation of companies and founders and businesses that just make it such an interesting visual experience when you come in. Then when you start to talk to people, you start to feel, wow, this is really an incredible place to come and create something really unique.
Smoke:Yeah. Well, hats off to you and these efforts. And and I you told me a little background, but I'd love to just for the audience so they understand, like, when you came here, I think 2019 Yeah. They gave you basically a big open room
Smoke:And a whole pile of money and resources.
Robert:The deal was like, you know, hey, we'd love for you to be our founding director of Canyon Ventures. Here's the deal. You got you know, there's nothing here. You got no money and no staff. And I was like, drive a hard bargain.
Robert:Know I why I sign. But I really love that blank slate to be able to create something totally unique. We had this structure that we thought we wanted to build on. And that was, okay, we wanna create an ecosystem where our students can get professional experience and build a professional network prior to graduation and get paid while they're doing it. We thought we wanted to bring in not just entrepreneurs from the university, but from our community.
Robert:And we wanted to use this as a showcase to recruit those like minded students who wanted to come here and, you know, build something and have that not just the ecosystem, but have a community around them that wanna do that. So that was in 2019, right after that COVID happened. Mhmm. And but I thought, you know, I'd been through the the 02/2008, you know, great recession, and I thought that COVID was really no big deal. Like, hey, that's okay.
Robert:We're gonna get through this. And, you know, part of the fabric of entrepreneurs is that we're good in crisis. Mhmm. So I thought, you know, this is just another great opportunity to prove the value of this place by driving through and creating it. And in the end, testament to to Grand Canyon University's vision to be able to do this, but to create something where we've now launched seven companies out of here, two Shark Tank winners, to be here and employ hundreds and hundreds of students that are getting professional experience and building their professional network.
Robert:What I love about that student experience is it's different from universities is that I like this idea of I don't like fighting fair. You know, why would you like, fifty fifty doesn't seem like you know what mean? Like, why would you do that? Yeah. So how can we create an unfair advantage for students to come to Grand Canyon University?
Robert:How can we give them a network professional experience, real currency in their education to go out to really be useful to the world? Right?
Smoke:It's funny. I often, you know, make introductions and, you know, try to help, you know, up and coming people and try to connect with people. And sometimes I resistance like, you know, I I wanna do it on my own. I'm like, no one ever did anything on their own.
Smoke:And everyone who was very successful, they networked. They they they built a network of Yeah. Of relationships and people. And it it it's part of the key of unlocking how do you get things done is how do you work with other people and take advantage of the situation. Yeah.
Robert:I mean, that's such a great point. Like, Dan Sullivan is a coach, and he has this great mantra that it's not how, it's who. Mhmm. And I say here, you're one person away from the solution to your problem. Yeah.
Robert:Like, know, the one person can
Smoke:But you have to ask for help.
Robert:You have to ask for help. Like, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Smoke:And and and that includes a higher power.
Robert:Yes. Of course.
Smoke:Number one, ask for help.
Lucas:Yeah. Yeah.
Robert:It's you know what's awesome about this place is that, you know, entrepreneurs are the most faith filled people on the planet. Like, you like, there's nothing here. Like, we're gonna create something. Like like, that's god giving us this.
Smoke:The world is not doesn't believe you. They don't see your vision. You see it clearly, and you're like and I just have to do these things to get there. And whatever those things are might change, but I'm gonna get there.
Robert:And that, I think, comes from this higher power. This this like, we're all created with this, and that vision comes from somewhere. Yeah. And then it's refined through this process. But those epiphanies you wake up at night and then you write things down, like, all that comes from from this higher power, this vibration that you get that, like, if we're to do this.
Smoke:If we're receptive enough to receive it. Yeah. You know, it's like we have to suspend judgment. We have to be the witness and be open to, you know, what is possible. Right?
Smoke:And and if we in that if we're in that, like, non judging stance, things come to us.
Robert:Yeah. It's lonely, isn't it? Right? To to be there alone and not have, the support system that you need.
Robert:Here, I think we're all a bunch of misfits. You know? We're all sort of trying to figure this thing out. We're all delusional trying to figure these things out. I'd rather be here with all these people than anywhere else in the planet.
Robert:Yeah. Like, we're in the back. We we're at Grand Canyon University at 20 Seventh Avenue in Camelback and probably, like, one of the more challenging places, you know, in Arizona. And still, we have people that come here and wanna be part of this place. And, you know, I just love being with a bunch of people here who believe in themselves.
Robert:Like, tell look. We're just gonna bet it all on black, and we're gonna be on the black, and we're gonna make this thing happen. Right?
Smoke:But it is your belief in them, in these kids, in these young entrepreneurs that helps them in those moments when they dip. You know, we all have self doubt. Yeah. Of course.
Smoke:And we're talking about that, but, like, you know, you've got this kind of, like, hey. Figure it out. There's ways to do it. Ask for help. Like Yeah.
Smoke:Like, let's all let's all bear down on your problem.
Robert:I think that's the that's this unbelievable community. Look. You learn, like, as an entrepreneur. Like, hey. You know what?
Robert:Like, you you you're like, I I gotta do this thing. Yeah. Like, no one's coming, and I'm gonna need some help. Mhmm. And when you're surrounded by people that all are in that same situation, that we're all it's a very egalitarian network.
Robert:We're all pulling for each other. Mhmm. We're all trying to figure it out. And we don't have to like I know when someone's having a bad day. And for me, my role here now is like, hey, sometimes it's usually daily.
Robert:I gotta pick people up, I gotta dust them off, and I gotta put them right back in the fight with new perspective. And that has been like for me a real privilege to be able to do this and to see the success that we've had out of this just from really having the courage to do something different that the world says you can't do. And then really going through that process of proving everyone wrong or at least maybe proving yourself right. And then along the way, there's more beautiful failures, beautiful failures along the way than there are successes. And I love those failures.
Robert:I just love that opportunity to say, Okay, that was a great lesson. And we've learned a lot from that. I'll tell you what though. One of the things I love about this place is that we've learned how to win. And people say, Well, you learned a lot from losing.
Robert:Not so much. Like I've learned more from winning. And the things I've learned is like how much effort it takes to win.
Smoke:Right? But also I think one of the things I heard loud and clear is if you're gonna fail, fail fast.
Robert:Yeah.
Smoke:We do all So the like figure out. I love what you were talking about. Maybe you can elaborate on that, but the whole conversion customer to conversion rate because, you know, you have a pretty good indicator of what is gonna work and not work quickly.
Robert:Right? Yeah. So you can't go past product market fit. We gotta know if this product market fit. So how do you know, right?
Robert:And you could literally still have a million dollars in revenue and not have product market fit. So we know if your lifetime value of customer, meaning if your customer gives you, I don't know, dollars 100, right? If your lifetime value is, three to one of your customer acquisition costs, we know there's something going on.
Smoke:Do more of one and you get threes.
Robert:That's it. Now we can just crank up this and we get that. The struggle to get to that three to one is that beautiful failure. And to refine it and to tune it. And you're constantly just trying to get there.
Robert:And it's a three year battle to product market fit. Here's another formula. Now, by the way, these are hard fought formulas. We came up with this through failure, not through success. Like the first time this was like, okay, I think we need to do this.
Robert:We need to tweak that. We need to have both product market fit and product message fit. The other thing we've learned is that there's platforms you can sell on. TikTok is one. Instagram is another.
Robert:Now we know what sells on TikTok live. If it's one size fits all, if it's everyday use, and if it's in the health, beauty, or vanity category, man, it really does sell. You can sell on TikTok and you can literally drive revenues there like almost nowhere else. So we found these little formulas, right? So we know, okay, here's where to go with that.
Robert:Here's what to do. You could spend a lot time trying to figure it out. We've mapped that for Yeah. Our entrepreneurs here. And that's why you'll see, like, Lucas who literally this is the most amazing thing.
Robert:We've taken an idea from the classroom, literally started in a classroom to, like, you know, $160,000 in ninety days. Yeah. And he'll be a million dollar company in, like, one year.
Smoke:Yeah. And you know what he said when we talked?
Robert:What did he say?
Smoke:That he wants to be you. Really? Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Smoke:So, like, the whole culture of giving back of, you know, obviously, success breeds success. And you've got this culture of, hey, let's let's win. But it's not win at all costs. It's win and how do I get back? How do I help the next guy?
Smoke:Yeah. You know, I love that.
Robert:Yeah. Mean you know you think about all the people that like leaned into me as I was screwing up on my life. You know what I mean? Yeah. All those people like I can never repay them ever.
Robert:Yeah. The only thing I can do for them is to be who they were for me.
Smoke:Yeah. Totally. Made me, like, tear up.
Robert:You know what mean? That's the only thing I can do. I got nothing else, right, but to be that person
Smoke:for them. Well, you know, the what's cool about what you have here and what the university has is, you know, you've got this kind of faith based base Yeah. And you're doing entrepreneurship. And what I love is, you know, bringing together. That's what the Smoke Trail is all about.
Robert:It's awesome,
Smoke:isn't You know, bringing leadership, spiritual journey, and how do we have these conversations together. And, you know, I it took me a while, but when you are out for self, right, there that's a path. You know? And and that's a path that, you know, we've seen society in different you know, take you know, it's it's a path that leads to, you know, maybe short term wins but long term losses. When you're out for the all, it doesn't mean you're not out for yourself.
Smoke:It doesn't mean you're not out to be successful, to have your success, you know, financially abundance, your family, your community. It's but it's the all. You're looking at all things. So we're not gonna do something that is gonna harm others. Mhmm.
Smoke:We're doing something to lift things up. And that's the message I got from every everybody I talked to so far has been like you know yeah like I'm laser focused on my thing but I want to help others. Yeah. Like if we
Robert:can I mean that's like the idea? If we can use entrepreneurship and what we're doing transform the world. I know that sounds altruistic and do that
Smoke:Listen, that's the basis of this show. Yeah. Like, you know I'm with you.
Robert:Like, I'm all in.
Smoke:You gotta be in
Robert:a low. I literally like, that's
Smoke:what we're doing. Like and I'll give
Robert:you good examples. Like, We have a company, Electric E Bikes, started out here. They're now number one seller of electric e bikes. But one of the things he said like in his launch of his new XP4 bike is that, he said, What I'm so proud of is that we've been able to send 30 foster kids to GCU full scholarship. That was like, for me, was the greatest thing I could have ever heard there.
Robert:Because now I can just imagine the story coming at this kid was in foster care, came to GCU, set up a company, drove it to a billion dollars and gave back. I don't need one of those. We don't need one of those. And that for me is like that's my why. If we could use this place to transform the world.
Robert:Right? Yeah. That is that's way I get it. We need profits and all those other things. I I get that.
Robert:Right? But what you do with those profits really means something to me, and I want it to be impactful. Right?
Smoke:Yeah. No. Look. It's we at the end of the day, we only have we only have control over ourselves. Like, there's nothing else we control other than how we show up.
Smoke:But if we show up at the in the right way at the high highest vibration we're of doing, that affects everyone around us.
Robert:Mhmm.
Smoke:And so what I see here is this energy field you've created, which is magical. And all everyone is adding to it. Right? It's, you know, it's it it starts with, like, someone with a vision and someone who leads it, which is you. But it works because you're inspiring others and they're inspiring others.
Smoke:And these these, like, out circles of vibration Mhmm. Are like it's endless. Like, you'll never know how many people you affected by starting this thing.
Robert:Yeah. You you I mean, it's I lose sight of that a lot, Smoke. I do. And one of the things like I've written down like I want to create this. I think hope is the abundance of options.
Robert:And I think hopelessness is the lack of options. And I think that when we hear about all these epidemics that happen whether it's we have epidemics in various populations of suicide and the like. And I decided like for me and this place what I want to do with my life I just want us to be you know epidemics can go in one direction they can go in another direction. Yeah. I just want us to be this epidemic of hope.
Robert:Yeah. You know, to really just give options, give opportunity, to really empower people in a way that is, for them, they feel inspired. They feel comfortable, confident to be able to do this stuff. And I want this place and what we bring to the world as this massive epidemic of hope that gets passed on and passed on to people. Right?
Smoke:Yeah. That's beautiful. And, you know, look, there's no lack of problems but but in the world. But the problems are opportunities, and they are opportunities for people to create solutions, to work through them, to learn you know, all every problem is a is a learning opportunity, you know, whatever it is. You know, I had childhood trauma.
Smoke:I I overcame that. They dealt with it. We all have our issues. When you can be an example and we were talking about it earlier. One of the guys was talking about his faith and, you know, walking in the shoes of Christ.
Smoke:Mhmm. You know, talking about that. I'm like, talking about it is is good, but being it
Lucas:Mhmm.
Smoke:Is is next level. And so when you help inspire people and they're inspiring others and they're they're they're becoming, they are enacting, they're not just talking about you know, it's all well and good to go to church on Sunday. I'm I'm a big believer that it's how you behave not on Sunday. It's how you behave when you're walking down the street, you see a homeless person, when you whatever you're doing in life, it's how you treat each other. And if we all elevate our own game, which is the only thing we control, nothing else, then we're elevating everyone.
Smoke:Yeah. And so it's an abundance mindset, which I I feel Totally. Like coming across, like, you know.
Robert:Yeah. If we can do that. Look, a lot of people don't want us to do that. A lot of people like But I think we persist and we're gonna persist to do that and create something. We've already changed our community.
Robert:We've already changed people. And I just think if we can continue to do that work For us it's just important to show up and
Smoke:do the work every day
Robert:and to be that epidemic of hope and to show people, Hey, we got this. We're going to work through this. And I think that entrepreneurs are different. Like we have this vision that doesn't exist and we wanna create something that's not there. We're delusional enough to think that we could do it.
Robert:And when you put that energy out there, when you put that the world sort of coalesces towards those things.
Smoke:And people show up and Look. We we our perception is our reality. Mhmm. And if you come to the world with love, with abundance, with you know, I see divinity in everyone I I meet. And I like, I'm like, okay.
Smoke:They just don't see it in themselves. They're it's just hidden. Right? Yeah. And so when we show up that way, it it's infectious.
Smoke:It spreads. And, you know, you think about, you know, you look around the world and you see, you know, these impoverished countries and you see governments that are, you know, have the thumb on the back of the people. And you see, even in our country, see, you know, groups who are all about, like, dividing up the spoils. It's that mentality does nothing positive. It is not the way forward.
Smoke:The way forward is create abundance.
Robert:Yeah.
Smoke:Share it Yeah. Freely. The more you give, the more you get.
Robert:Yeah. No. It's true here. Like, literally, we we literally, like, give so much away, and we have so much in return. Yeah.
Robert:Like, we almost can't handle the return that we get. It's just like when we started here, literally smoked. There was nothing here. Yeah. I mean, not like like there was like we didn't even have furniture.
Robert:Yeah. And so I just would, like, call up some people and be like, hey. Would you be willing to donate some furniture? I mean, nothing matches here. Like, you know what I mean?
Robert:But we didn't need it to match. And we had so much furniture. I'm like, no. No. We don't need any more furniture.
Robert:When whenever we ask, we just got more. Yeah. And then when whenever I ask, hey. Do you think you do this? Like, literally, so many people show up to do that.
Robert:It's just been I think that you're right. When we can actually not have any attachment, we don't give to get. Right? Not have any attachment. We just we just give.
Robert:The it comes back tenfold.
Smoke:And and that's how life works. I mean, it you're embodying it here in the center, but it's how our it's how life unfolds. And some of us, you know, takes us till, you know, we get a little older to realize it. Some you know, these young bright lights Yeah. Get it already.
Smoke:Yeah.
Robert:You know, it's beautiful. You know what's awesome? It's like, I was, like, you know, they're 21, 22. Like, I was never that evolved at 21 or 22. You know
Smoke:what mean? Listen. I was running from my problems. But I but I had an entrepreneurial streak. So, like, I was, like, I was, like, running from darkness, and I was chasing dreams at the same time.
Smoke:And that that chasing dream part kept me away above the darkness. But I didn't I wasn't like these guys are
Robert:like Yeah.
Smoke:They're very conscious.
Robert:And that, like, you know, I hear a lot of people and it, they'll they'll say, oh, this generation. You know, I can give you chapter and verse of students in this generation that that they're here with me at, you know, five in the morning and at eight at night. They're driving, like, you know, and they leave here on the weekends. Will Post goes and serves our country and the National Guard along with, you know, Andrew Busman. And this generation, like, I'm really proud of them.
Robert:They they come across at least the kids
Smoke:don't That that's so underrepresented in modern media and what we see. But when I see it, I see firsthand. You see it here in the center. You know, my I have four grown kids who are all good humans. They're not kids anymore.
Smoke:They're have families, and they're off doing their thing. And I'm like, I know their friend groups. They're great. The these are like you know, everyone has their challenges, but, like, they have great friend groups. They're all working hard.
Smoke:Mhmm. They're they're conscientious. They care. Mhmm. They care about their community.
Smoke:They care what's going on. They care about their life. They care about you know, I don't I don't I see the world very differently than what is depicted out there. And I think that's a really important message that we can share here
Robert:Mhmm.
Smoke:Is that, no, it's not a bad generation. It's it's a we've got a media apparatus that is driven by the negative. Mhmm. And a lot of the talking heads and a lot of the stuff we see is is in that realm. And yet, in real life, I talk to real people, you know, all over the place.
Smoke:And it's like, I'm inspired. Me too. It's it's good. It's Yeah. It's it's a positive thing.
Robert:No entitlement here. I mean, you you know, it's eat what you kill. We gotta get after it.
Smoke:We Well, listen. You gotta you you know, I have no tolerance for people that aren't willing to roll their sleeves and work. And and so well, I I say I have no tolerance. I appreciate that some people are in a negative state and they they don't see that yet. But I love when I see, like, hey.
Smoke:Let's go do this. Let's make it happen. And, you know, whatever happens gets in the way. We're gonna figure out a way through it.
Robert:So that's this generation. At least the the kids I know from this generation, they're not entitled. They do get after it. You've met them now. And I see them actually doing the work to make themselves successful and to be epidemics of hope in their friends group whenever, they are leading the way.
Robert:And for folks that say, this generation's entitled this and that, look, that's just not my experience. Or at least not wholly my experience. Yeah. Certainly, there were some. But I'll tell you, there were people in my generation that were entitled.
Robert:Oh,
Smoke:yeah. There's there's plenty of that throughout society and always has been. But I I think look. Consciousness is rising in the world. I agree.
Smoke:We're in a better place now than ever before. And people will say, well, how could you say that? It was war. It was this that. Well, you know what happens when you wanna get you wanna raise your vibration, you wanna get more conscious, all the things in the way come up.
Smoke:Yeah. So in my journey of trying to find peace and love and realize that you know it was all the things that were in my subconscious all the trauma in my past that came up and I had to face it. Now nothing can withstand conscious awareness.
Lucas:Mhmm.
Smoke:And so when I see the things that are happening around world and I see a lot of like turmoil and lots of know, there's plenty of things that you could get anxious about. That's these things surfacing that need to be surfaced, that need to be put conscious on so that we can move beyond it. And so, actually, it's a positive sign that, you know, we see the we see the lack of integrity in in in some in in politicians and government and different things, and we see it plain and simple. COVID helped. Yeah.
Smoke:You know, COVID was, you know, it was tragic for a lot of people, but it was really positive because we saw through the veil of
Robert:Mhmm.
Smoke:You know, falsehood. And I think a lot of people have woken up as a result of that. I agree. In a good way. The good kind of woke.
Robert:I totally agree.
Robert:I think that now, like, people now know. We know what we don't know and we know now there's something different.
Smoke:Right? And the more I the more I think I know, the less I know. And as I raise my vibration, I realize that there's much higher above me. Right? So what we what we as we raise our consciousness, you can see everything below at the lower levels, but you become more aware that there's so much more.
Smoke:It for me, it's just reinforced faith. It's reinforced Yeah. Understanding of a higher power. And when you're tapping into that in an abundant mindset with a let's give let's give it's not about what you get back things just flow and that's what's happening here.
Robert:Yeah I think that you know it takes a lot not to major in the minor yeah But if you can do that and you can just stay above it and just say, hey. You know, it's only a movie. Like, everything's gonna work out. You know what
Smoke:I mean? Well, there's polarities in everything. Right? Yeah. And if you're recognizing that you can transcend the polarities if you see the context of it all.
Smoke:Right? And the context is divinity. Yes. And if you have that context, you're like, oh, okay. That person is they have some they have things they have to work through that they just don't understand.
Smoke:They don't see. And so how do you help them? Well, you be you be the best person you can be and that vibration will help them more than anything. It's like when you learn once you understand this is something that like maybe it took me longer than a lot of people but like once I realized that, you know, you can be very empathetic, but if you're matching the vibration of someone who's, say, depressed or in a really distraught state, you're not doing them any good. You think you're being sympathetic, but, actually, you're just bringing your vibration down.
Smoke:If you stay in your vibration and you stay up and you can still listen and have empathy or you can have compassion is a better word for that person's situation, the odds of them getting out of it are much higher if you keep your vibration up. Mhmm. Right? It it it's it really works that way.
Robert:You're the vibrationally example of for for them.
Smoke:Like, because we're always like, we're matching or repelling vibrations. The cool thing is the higher vibrations are it's a it's a logarithmic scale Mhmm. In power. So the power of love and unconditional love is magnitudes greater than all these lower ones. Yeah.
Lucas:And you
Robert:can't fake that. No.
Smoke:You can't fake it. And the but just one person who's calibrating at unconditional love makes up for, like, a 100,000,000 people who were below in negativity. Mhmm. That's the epidemic of hope, that one. Right?
Smoke:Yeah. And this is a a shining shining example. So Well,
Robert:I appreciate that.
Smoke:What no. I look. I I don't I'm not saying it because I'm here and this is a cool place and I like you, which I do. It's because I see it. It's it's it's real.
Smoke:So what what's the future lie? Like, how do you how do you can you just continue doing what you're doing? Yeah. One of Can other people replicate this in other in other communities?
Robert:We've tried. We give like, people ask, how do we do this? We give them the blueprint. It's like a two page blueprint, like, And they'll call me up like, okay. But how do we do this?
Robert:Yeah. I just gave you the answer. But the the future is like, one of the things we really wanna do is that we've not been able to direct directly invest in these companies. For the first time ever, we've created this structure where we created this faith innovation fund. Okay.
Robert:So literally, we'll be able to attract companies in and then make strategic equity investments into these companies who meet our thesis and our philosophy. Right? So that to me is so exciting because up until now, it's just been no cost real estate, no cost rent, all those things. And it's been an accelerator to help you grow. Yet they've always had to go out.
Robert:Our companies have always had to go out and look for capital. Find their own fund. Yeah. And we would guide them along the way and I would network and give them access to capital and we help them raise money. Yet we've never had the opportunity to directly invest in these companies for benefit of recycling that money back into organization to have this self funding organization.
Robert:For the first time ever, like this morning at a conversation, we'll be able to take Now, it'll be through a donor advised fund. So you wanna make a donation? Great. Here it is. And then we're gonna reinvest that in here.
Robert:That structure to me, like, it keeps me up at night to be able to actually because here like for me, I think like the Christian entrepreneur, the person who thinks about the world like we do, in a lot of ways, I feel like they're the greatest underserved missionaries on the planet.
Smoke:Right. Right?
Robert:And so I know that sounds like contradictory but they are. So how do we invest in those people to become how do we give resources to those people to invest in them so they can actually just repeat and be an example for that. So for me that's sort of like the next evolution of this. I don't think we would have gotten the trust of donors and or a donor advised group to be able to do it unless we did this work. Unless we were able to improve.
Robert:Unless we started with nothing. Unless we did all this stuff. Unless we had success. So we couldn't have started.
Smoke:Well now you have graduates and people who are making success who are willing to be part of that, right?
Robert:Or like
Smoke:reinvest, come back and say, Hey, I've made it. Now I'm gonna send 30 kids or 40 kids to your program and also invest in the fund and that kind of thing.
Robert:We had to do it this way. We had to start with nothing and grow into something before we could gain the trust of people that we were fully committed, that this is what we wanted to do. And now I think we have this opportunity to actually attract great companies, attract great founders, house them here and invest with them and then send them out into the world to actually transform the world, to give people the opportunity to live like a life that they never believed possible?
Smoke:I believe well, first of all, the individuals raising their own vibration, vibration, doing doing the the work work are are are the way we transform the world. Yeah. I also believe, and this is kind of the premise of this, you know, this whole like, what this whatever it is I'm doing, you know, have stumbled into is that entrepreneurs, business leaders who are conscious can impact the world many times over because, look, if I've got a 100 employees or a thousand employees or whatever, I've got influence. Now can I make those people wake up and be conscious?
Smoke:Not necessarily. But by my being that way, by my holding space for people and and and basically calling it out and and encouraging it, I'm improving the lives of all these people. And think about how much impact that is. And I I think about my my YPO group and, you know, there's now 30 I guess, there's 35,000 members around the And I know, when I joined twenty four years twenty three years ago or whatever, there was 5,000. Right?
Smoke:There's 35,000 CEOs that qualify for YPO around the world. You know, that group has its I think I saw some stats. It's like sixth or seventh largest economy in the world if you add up all the Wow. The GDP of the companies and millions of employees. How much of that group waking up, being conscious, being aware of that of this situation and leaning back in moves the needle on society in general.
Smoke:And so I love what you guys are doing in on a on a microcosm. Mhmm. It's not small. It's huge. But I see it like other leaders seeing this and going, hey.
Smoke:You know, I could do this in my community. Yeah. You know, I I bet we could get other people to you know, it's not it's obviously hard to do. Like, you have to be you. You have to have you have to have a certain level of, like, I'm gonna make this happen.
Smoke:But there are others out there that are like minded who would invest in this, who would wanna try to replicate it in their community wherever it is, and, you know, and and support this kind of ecosystem. I think it's a beautiful example.
Robert:Yeah. And I and I really appreciate you coming here and shining a light on this because it does help and it does give it exposes Grand Canyon University, it exposes entrepreneurs, it exposes what we're doing here in the hopes that others will say, Yeah, let's do it. Let's do that, Right? Yeah. I mean, you can do it.
Robert:Like the fact is we started with the Grand Canyon University was very gracious in giving us a space.
Lucas:Yeah.
Robert:And, you know, hiring me. Right? Yeah. But they were like, You're an entrepreneur. Figure it out.
Robert:And I just love that. So doesn't require money. It just requires this commitment to saying we're going to change the world.
Smoke:Well, the resources that we need for anything in in the world will show up if you're doing the right thing and you have the right intentions Yeah. And you do the work. So yeah. I mean, money will appear Yeah. As needed.
Smoke:Like, this fun thing Yeah. That's just gonna keep growing and it's gonna you you know? But I also like the scrappy nature of, well, we don't have unlimited resources. We have to figure out things, you know. There there is some good discipline there.
Robert:And I like that too. Like, I I like, you know, not having to have like I think a lot of times having money is a problem.
Smoke:Yeah. Yeah. And Look, I've had startups where I was very successful at raising capital and we had almost an abundance of riches.
Robert:You know, this
Smoke:is .comone. I raised $60,000,000 on my idea that I wrote on a napkin. You know? But, you know, I and and there was there's different problems problems that show up with that. Yes.
Smoke:You know? But, you know, also businesses need need resources. So but I think if you're in the flow, you're giving back, you're in gratitude at all times, the resources will flow Yeah. And they do flow. Yeah.
Smoke:So what is there a you know, what's your biggest hurdle? Is there is there one? I mean, whatever it is, you're gonna overcome it. But, like, is there a challenge right now that you guys are facing?
Robert:I think the bigger challenge is to really attract the right companies and to to get them to a place where they can spawn out of here with the right resources, the right capital to actually grow our economy as So I think that's what where our challenge is, to really have enough space and resources to actually grow, attract and grow these companies so they go out and do the work to change the world. That's really the effort. I think that we're getting very close to having the fun together, very close to be able to attract that and putting investment thesis together that makes sense, that's aligned to that. So the biggest challenge is like just making sure we're doing it right, making sure that those resources are coming in, and then equipping the founders at every stage. Because founders get stuck at certain revenue points.
Robert:Just equipping them so that when they do spawn out of here, they're fully capable of that growth trajectory to really drive their growth, drive their business, exit, and then figure out how they wanna give back. What what what the idea is that not to get too far outside of GCU is that Arizona has this really unique opportunity to be a a beacon for start up startups. And it's not just Phoenix. There's Sedona, this whole place. It is an amazing state.
Robert:I came from the East Coast twenty five years ago. I'm never going back. I don't even like stepping on the bathroom tile floor when it's cold. So I love Arizona. Yeah.
Robert:But here's here's how ecosystems like ours actually get funded. So when you're a founder and you get an exit, you actually take that money and you put it into a venture fund here. Right? And then those funds actually reinvest in companies here. We've just started this.
Robert:Yeah. Like, when you say, like, what are the companies that have exited from Arizona? Most people know GoDaddy. Yeah. But there hasn't been like, we don't have this Silicon Valley sort of Rolodex of companies that have exited.
Robert:Yeah. We're just starting that. What I would love, love, no more to have, like, dozens of venture capital firms here, dozens of limited partners who are getting exits, who are reinvesting. And so Arizona becomes this place like, oh, you've got a tech star. You've got a climate tech, you've got this, you need to come to
Robert:Arizona. There's capital there, there's resources there, you'll get trained there. There's places like Grand Canyon University, there's this university, and we create this amazing place. I don't wanna be like Silicon Valley.
Smoke:Yeah. Well, and you've got the look. The the the basic ecosystem of Arizona is conducive to this. You got a you got a reasonable, you know, low tax, you know, low tax rate. You've got, you know, generally friendly environment for entrepreneurship.
Smoke:Yep. And you need to keep it that way. Even though people like me who moved from California, you know, we need to make sure that it that we're all Yes. Voting to keep it that way too. But but that being said, you know, it's like in spite of itself.
Smoke:California is so successful because of its momentum Yeah. And the entrepreneurs, but they've got they've created so much headwinds Mhmm. To the entrepreneurial world that it still keeps happening because they have so much momentum. But, you know, I believe that given modern technology, what we've seen, you know, you can be anywhere and do anything. Yep.
Smoke:And you have access to the best of the best everywhere. And you guys are building, like I mean, I say you guys. I'm a resident now too. So we are building, you know, big chip plants. Yep.
Smoke:And there's a lot of really cool stuff happening in the broader ecosystem.
Robert:Yep. Number one in direct foreign investments. We'll have another $100,000,000 coming in. And that that tech ecosystem or the the chip ecosystem includes includes data centers and all these things. It's just massive.
Robert:Now, if if you look at this, now here's the place where we wanna be. You wanna be they're making the chips. You're gonna put an AI right here. You want if you're an AI company, you wanna be here, access chip, access technology. So all these things, it's so exciting to be here.
Robert:And also, the one thing I think that we have as an advantage is that, I have friends that live in Silicon Valley and it's very difficult to find places to live. It's very costly. So we have this place that's basically so nascent in terms of our growth. Like, we have this place where you can come here, you can find a home to live in, you can you know, it's affordable. You can do those things.
Robert:Mhmm. And literally, the next twenty five years in Arizona, I I have this vision that we will be the place on the planet where people wanna come to. We don't have hurricanes like Florida does. Right? We don't have, you know and Texas has these things.
Robert:This will be the place. Yeah. It's a little hot here in
Caleb:the summer.
Smoke:Yeah. And the Habibs, they they go Yeah. They go by, Yeah.
Robert:But it's a little hot here. But it's hot everywhere in the summer. Right? Yeah. But past those four months, right, there's an ecosystem.
Robert:There's a community here. Arizona State is the largest, I think, public university. University. We're We're a 119,000 students. We have talent here.
Robert:So now is the time and the place.
Smoke:I didn't realize it was that big. A 119,000.
Robert:We're a 119. We have 26,000 students that live in our campus, which is a city within a city. Yeah. Like, 400 acres right next door here. Wow.
Robert:We're a 119,000 students total. We're we're sort of the inverse of Arizona State University. They have more on ground than we have online, but but but think about it. We have two of the largest universities on the planet right here in Arizona keeping that town here, finding that. But I have this vision like we want to be part of this.
Robert:Right now I think it's very normal to see this. I think that when you look at ecosystems like Arizona, impartially California and other places, when they start out, it's a lot of I call it jazz, like everyone's doing their own thing. Yeah. Until it becomes classical. Right.
Robert:We bring everybody together. We focus on one sort of here's our mission and then we're all working together. We're getting to that classical sort of orchestra where we're gonna be able to do that. And when we do, look out California, look out Texas, look out Utah, look out Idaho. Will literally, people will be flocking to this state.
Smoke:that’s one of the beautiful things. I've lived all over the country and my I have roots in Indiana and other places. And what I love about The US and what what is something that is really unique, I think, is we do have this competition among states and communities and it's almost like you know we've got these 50 laboratories it's actually more because cities too right. We've got these laboratories of experimentation and we see what works and we see what doesn't work and you know it's it's so clear which where it's working where it's not working and you know we need to get out of our own way as a society just to like hey there's abundance for everyone. The get out the way of the people that are gonna go do things and, you know, the give back it it needs to be part of it.
Smoke:It's not just about like, you know, I I look at you know, I have friends who are hedge fund guys and private equity guys and, you know, they perform a function. But I think there is a strain that is entrepreneurial based building businesses having exits reinvesting doing it again doing it again that is a give back and it raises everyone up. It's really positive.
Robert:We're getting there. Smoke in the next three to five years, you're going see some big exits come out of Arizona and they'll reinvest in Arizona. And that's where you'll see, okay, now this is hyperdrive. Like we're really starting to grow this. We just started that.
Robert:We're just at the point where now we have a dozen or more VC firms. We've got other stuff. And we're just starting that. And what's happening is that the Taiwan Semiconductor of the world, the $100,000,000 investment, that's a massive tailwind for entrepreneurs. Because now they're pushing, we need this, we need that, we need innovation.
Robert:So all that's coming and we are literally positioned so well-to-do that. And what I would like for us to be humbly here at GCU is just a small twist on that wrench to build this place, this beautiful place, Arizona, into something that's wow, you gotta come there. Like it's amazing. And you know, think we're doing it. There's other colleagues I have at other universities.
Robert:They're doing it. So we are trying to build something I think really beautiful here so that my kids are here. I want them to stay here. I don't want them to have to leave. If they want to, that's great.
Robert:But I would like for them to say, I never wanna leave Arizona. We don't want people to brain drain. We don't want that. We want people that the best talent to stay here in Arizona to create something truly amazing in this state that I think we're doing it now and it has the potential. And a lot of people have worked to create that opportunity for us to do it.
Robert:I think it's my responsibility as a business leader here to actually fulfill that promise for these students, my kids, my kids' kids, to be able to leave that say hey we'll build this for you. Know we'll get after it every day to make sure there's something really cool here for you guys.
Smoke:Awesome.
Robert:Thank you Smoke.
Smoke:Thank you. Thanks for everything you do and for being here and being who you are and I look forward to you know, leaning in and helping in any way I can. And if people wanna get involved or support what you're doing, what's the best way to, you know, contact you or or Yes.
Robert:We have a website. It's gcugcuworks.gcu.edu.
Smoke:I'll put it in the notes.
Robert:We give thousands of tours here so they wanna come by and see it.
Smoke:It's worth coming. It's super cool. If you're an entrepreneurial and you wanna see like it live, like this is how the Yeah. This is how things are made. You know?
Smoke:It's it's you see it. You see the creative the creative energy. Yeah. But we'd love to
Robert:have you coming in for a tour, just bringing people on forward, that's I think the best way to communicate it because it's we tell you or we could show you.
Smoke:Yeah. Just rather show you. Yeah. So Awesome. Thanks, Smoke.
Smoke:Celeb, Welcome to the Smoke Trail .
Caleb:Thank you Smoke, Appreciate it. Wyatt, how are you doing?
Smoke:We did good. Rolling. Okay. Caleb, welcome to the Smoke Trail.
Caleb:Thank you, Smoke. Appreciate it being here.
Smoke:Super excited to be here at Grand Canyon University, and, this is a pretty amazing place.
Caleb:Yeah. Yeah. Some just amazing people, opportunity, and that's really what I saw when I first came here. It's just the opportunity, students like me and others just have here.
Smoke:It's just truly incredible. Is that why you came here?
Caleb:Yeah, so I came here because they do discover trips here, so they bring students in. Was student. I didn't know where I wanted to go. Like, a lot of kids picking a college is kind of a big deal, you know? Yeah.
Caleb:And you have friends who are looking at different schools, you're like, do I wanna join them and whatnot. And I kinda I had an opportunity here where I worked in a CNC shop, because I'm an engineer. So I learned machining in high school, and I was gonna become an engineer here. And I had an opportunity to work there. But, yeah, it just dragged me in somehow.
Caleb:So, yeah.
Smoke:Well, it's it's got such a great energy here walking around, seeing Yeah. All the different entrepreneurial ventures and and you can just feel it in the air. It's like everybody's here. They're all working on stuff. And do you you guys collaborate a lot with each other?
Caleb:Absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, we all help each other out,
Smoke:you know? Yeah.
Caleb:And there's some amazing people in here. When I got started, I was just a freshman here. I heard about business. I had a decent idea of like a product at the time and I joined a club on campus called Idea Club which just helps entrepreneurs, it's all it is It's entrepreneurs helping entrepreneurs and student entrepreneurs It's not just adults adults help mentor the leaders in it, but then the leaders are the students, they then help the next students. And so it's kind of a cool chain of entrepreneurs giving back to entrepreneurs.
Caleb:And so I got dragged into that and I now get to run it also. So I'm the president of Idea Club on campus. Yeah, it's just really cool opportunity to give back to the next generation.
Smoke:Yeah. That's awesome. I can I can feel the energy? I could see why it's attractive. And, you know, so give me a little your your backstory.
Smoke:So you grew up you grew up in
Caleb:Northern California. Yep. Way up. Way up. Way up in Reading.
Caleb:Yeah. And, yeah, I just grew up there. It's a great life. I have an amazing family. I have one brother, and I grew up doing sports, played soccer, travel soccer and I just worked hard and I think learning in sports how to work hard and push yourself really translated to a lot of my business stuff and pushing yourself and just going be above and beyond.
Caleb:Then, yeah, I came down to Phoenix and just fell in love
Smoke:with this place. Yeah. It's a pretty pretty magical spot. So when you you were heading here as a freshman, you had a business idea. Is it the one you end up doing?
Smoke:Or is it Yeah. Okay. So so Yeah. Tell tell us a little bit about that and let me hear Yes.
Caleb:So we we made car chaps. So car chaps was a simple Northern California gets hot just like Phoenix. 114 some days. People leave the lip balm in their car and it melts. Just like this one right here.
Caleb:It melts, it goes sideways, resolidifies sideways, which is really a big issue. And then, it might ruin your car, your purse. And so what we did is we fixed that by just simply suspending your lip balm in an upright position. Now what this does is it keeps your lip balm in its original container so it can re solidify. You turn your AC and your car on for five-ten minutes, it's re solidified, you can use it again.
Caleb:And then it also helps prevent loss. So I often ask people when was the last time you finished a lip balm? And they're like, Oh, never. It's a very simple solution and my mom is the one who's like, Let's just hold it upright! And so I three d printed a little thing that worked for her and I put it up online as a joke Like I saw my brother selling stuff on eBay and I was like, Well, I wanna try this online retail.
Caleb:And so I put it up online as a joke, and then it started selling. We all know that's called a proof of concept now. Yeah. But from there, it was cool to see how it transitioned. And I did that my senior year.
Caleb:I created my senior year in high school. And then I shut it down when I came to college. I did, like, 2 k in revenue. It was great. Like, senior project was fun.
Caleb:And then I worked in the CNC shop, like I mentioned earlier. And then I joined Idea Club, which is where it's like, oh, wait. I had this idea back then. I don't really push it that hard. Kinda did as a joke.
Caleb:Yeah. Let's see what happens now. And so got it up on Amazon, Etsy, Shopify, TikTok shop. And right now, we're working on distribution. But it took off and so I competed in what's called the Canyon Challenge which is like a Shark Tank on campus here I didn't win, I got second place But it's cool, I think that was just a chip on the shoulder that made me keep going So from there it kind of blew up So we had some great traction on TikTok It's crazy what someone's video can do for you were on Car and Driver magazine Good Housekeeping magazine a big YouTube channel called Donut Media, a bunch of different publications and it really took off.
Caleb:And so this last year, we did over $600,000 in revenue just off of this single product. So it's And are they all three d printed? So, yeah, great question. So we have some here. These are like the three d printed colors.
Smoke:Yep.
Caleb:And then this one right here, this is the injection mold one. So we have the injection mold blister packaging now. And that's what you might hopefully see in stores here. So we're still working on our connections there, but we have high hopes and it's a proven product that sells, you know, why would it not be successful in stores? We just wanna provide the same value that a lot of people see it at an easier accessibility point.
Smoke:That's awesome!
Caleb:It's really story about how simple an idea can be. Right? Yeah. And, yeah.
Smoke:600,000 is no joke. I mean, it's obviously got a market fit. And, so what is the evolution of the business? Is it just more of same, more distribution? Do you have another product ideas coming?
Smoke:I have a feeling this is not the last one.
Caleb:I really do enjoy the business stuff is fun. But I truly am an engineer at heart. I love making things. I have kind of a little shop out there where I can make new products and what's next There's a couple of things in the works, a couple of ideas We have one called Nidoc that is a weight that can magnetically organize your cables How many times do you pick up a cable off the ground? It's a small inconvenience but if we just have a magnetic system it doesn't have to have that inconvenience We're all about creating small inventions.
Caleb:They're not going to cure cancer but it's just starting with small things and helping improve people's lives in a daily way. Very cool. Awesome.
Smoke:Big picture, you know, this is gonna be a big success. You're gonna have more to come. You know, where do you see yourself down the road? Like, what do you what
Lucas:do you have?
Smoke:Any any big big aspirations?
Caleb:Yeah. I think I mean, I would love to just, one, retire my parents That's one thing that I've always thought about dreaming of and, they've just given so much to me My mom's my business partner now on it and so it's been fun to have this in the family One thing I do love is just helping the next person in life
Caleb:I really do appreciate my high school shop teacher who's the one that pushed me to create this and go to GCU and get plugged in and just have these experiences, you know? Yeah. And so I'd love to incorporate that somehow in my future, just help people out, the next generation, inspire kids to start creating again, is what I like to say.
Smoke:That's awesome. I I love that. And, you know, sometimes it just takes seeing someone do something to inspire the next person to do something else. Exactly.
Smoke:Know, it's like, oh, you mean, that was as simple as the idea and, like, you just went out and executed and did it. I mean, it's not just. I mean, there's obviously Yeah. A lot of hard work and I'm sure there was lots of trial and error, mistakes made, and all all the things. Right?
Smoke:yeah. But just seeing one person's success, I think, inspires many others to to do things. And I love that you have this, genuine, interest in giving back, that you have such an appreciation, obviously, gratitude of what got you here. And that's such a beautiful thing. I mean, honestly, that's where this world needs to go.
Smoke:It is where it's going. And conscious leaders who Mhmm. Get it, you know, and you're starting out, you know, at a at a at a very young age, already understanding that. That's beautiful.
Caleb:I appreciate it, thank you I think it's truly a testament to the people that you surround yourself with and I'm appreciative of all the leaders that pour into me and I just it's really cool I think the coolest part of entrepreneurship that I saw before I came kind of into the entrepreneurial world is how much they just give back, you know, like no one's doing this by themselves and so either your family or the mentors and so I I really just do. I just wanna be that for someone else, you know.
Smoke:Yeah. That's Well, and that's really what you asked me before we started talking, the Smoke Trail is really about is, you know, I've been an entrepreneur. I've created a bunch of companies. I've had my big wins, and I've had, you know, setbacks and Mhmm. Challenges like anyone else.
Smoke:But as I have gone through my spiritual awakening and understanding kind of the the higher power and what is important, you know, this platform is really about having conversations with leaders and bringing in spirituality to it. So it's like, you know, what is it all about? And it is about giving back. I mean, it's the it's you're only as good as the love you give. And, you know, in understanding that early is, you know, magic.
Smoke:Yeah. You know, because the more you give, the more it will be abundant back to you. It's just the way the world works. Yeah.
Caleb:Yeah. It is a big part of my life too is my faith walk. As a Christian, it's just I think a lot of the answers and how you treat others is just in my faith walk A lot of it is without Christ saving us and just the sacrifice of the Father I've been able to grow in business here at GCU but also in faith and that's another really cool thing It's like let's go get lunch and talk about business but it's also how can we incorporate faith into helping these next students? And maybe it's not direct, know, like maybe it's just pouring into someone and earning the right to get to share your faith with them and just have a conversation about it because a lot of times it's the conversations that we're missing.
Smoke:So Yeah. And and I think maybe it sometimes it goes underappreciated, but it's it's the being that you are that speaks louder than words. So how you conduct yourself, how you how you do your business, how you, you know, treat your vendors, how you treat your your team, your customers, how you behave, is saying something vibrationally to the universe and everyone around you. And so don't underestimate. Even when you're not talking faith, you're living it.
Smoke:And living it is actually the more important thing.
Smoke:You know, it's it's who you are, who you become. And I think that, you know, it's awesome. It's, I really appreciate the journey you're on.
Caleb:Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
Smoke:Well, you're gonna have a lot of success. You already are crushing it. And, Car Chap, where can they find it
Caleb:You can find it on Amazon, hopefully you can find it here in stores soon. Amazon, Etsy, TheCarChap. We also have our Shopify website thecarchap.com. That solves your lip balm issues.
Smoke:Yeah, and what a great gift for everyone in your family. Stocking stuffers. Stocking stuffers.
Robert:Stocking Stuffers are pretty big.
Smoke:This is not a selling show, you know what, this is a great entrepreneur, great business. This is a no brainer, right?
Caleb:Thank you.
Smoke:It's so good. Well, thanks for being a part of this. And Of I look forward to following your journey as you expand. And maybe we can have you on as you come out with other products and Love it. Tell tell us about your your faith walk as well.
Smoke:Of course. Thank you.
Caleb:Appreciate it. Thank you.
Smoke:Awesome. Alright. Yeah. Roll. Here we go.
Smoke:Welcome to the Smoke Trail.
Lucas:Thank you. Thanks for
Smoke:having me. Really, really good to be here and love what you're doing here. But, like, we let's I wanna talk about what you you've created, but give me a little bit of why. Like, what what brought you here? Like, what what why'd you get hooked on it?
Smoke:I know you Story. You grew up in Long Island. Yeah.
Lucas:I'm from Long Island, New York. My best friend actually was talking to some girl in California, and she was going GCU. And this was during COVID, so we didn't have much going on at home. He went out here for school, and I couldn't afford it. So I was doing community college for a year or whatever, and it it was just awful.
Lucas:I couldn't stand it. I had to wear the mask. I was doing online school, and I came to visit my buddy. And I came out here, and I for the first time ever, saw a palm tree. Yeah.
Lucas:I was like, okay. This is a really nice place to be. No palm trees in the ground. Yeah. And then I toured this Canny Ventures building, and I saw kids my age that were entrepreneurs making so much money and, like, just doing things that they loved.
Lucas:And I said to myself, I wanna be here in four years. This is where I wanna be when I graduate. Yeah. So I was like I came home and said, mom, I'm going to GCU. She goes, you can't afford it.
Lucas:I said, I'm going to GCU. I hopped on a plane, went to GCU, and in four years, I, you know, got accepted in the Canyon Ventures building and started my own business. It's it's been a crazy journey since then. The reason that I invented this device was because my mother back in junior year of high school, was obsessed with the gym. I'd come home, and I would spill my protein powder all over the counter every day, and she was sick and tired
Smoke:of it. And you just importantly, you were a wrestler too.
Lucas:I was a wrestler. Yes. I wrestled in high school. I played lacrosse in high school. I pretty much done every sport you can, you know, under the sun.
Lucas:Okay. So, yes. I would spill all over the place. You get mad. And I was like, you know what?
Lucas:There's gotta be a better way to do this. So I took an entrepreneurship class with Robert Vera, my mentor. And I I I went up to the class, and he's on the first day, he said, anyone have an idea? And I was like, I I have an idea. I was like, you know, it's really stupid, but I have an idea.
Lucas:So I got up there, and I said, I have this problem, and I gotta figure out how to solve it. And he goes, this is great. This is awesome. And he we worked on it all semester. I ended up pitching in the Canyon Challenge, which is my school's, pitch competition.
Lucas:I ended up winning winning some funding money Yeah. To start my business. I bought a three d printer, and then from then on out, it's just been a whole crazy journey of how did I even like, sometimes I'm like, I wake up and like, how did I get here?
Smoke:Yeah.
Lucas:Like, it's crazy.
Smoke:Yeah. It's like you're in a movie. Yeah. You're the star of your own movie. Yeah.
Smoke:Yeah. And like, you step back and say, oh, that movie is pretty cool.
Lucas:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's exactly no. Literally, I was just home for, like, a family vacation.
Lucas:And, like, I used to live this life. I used to live here. And now, I I live across the country just doing my own thing. It's crazy.
Smoke:That's so awesome. I love the energy. I love your energy. And I love the energy of this place.
Smoke:Yes. And it's like I was asking you earlier, you know, you guys do you guys collaborate and help each other?
Lucas:Absolutely. Yeah. Every day. Every like Robert said, your
Lucas:the answer is one person away or literally it's around the corner. Yeah.
Lucas:I go to people every day, ask them for opinions, ask them for advice. You know, when when entrepreneurs are on their own, it's kinda like a church. Right? You go to the church for advice. You go to church for your support group.
Lucas:It's kinda like what we have here. You go to your people for your support. You know, you ask certain people questions that have more expertise in that area. It's just such a good environment to be in. You have whatever you need right here.
Smoke:Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. And that's I love that. Well, well, how fun.
Smoke:Well, alright. So what is so what is it called? It's this is the
Lucas:This is a powder pal.
Smoke:The powder pal.
Lucas:You've got a two tablespoons powder pal in here. Yeah. Yep. So this is the one that goes over the water bottle. Yeah.
Lucas:It's super simple for me.
Smoke:Yeah. You put your powder your
Lucas:Super powder.
Smoke:Protein or whatever it is and and then and it goes right in. Because, like, when I'm traveling because, like, at home, I have, you know, the bullet or whatever and, you know, making shakes
Lucas:and And you still could spill. Like, every I noticed every Right. I noticed every time you flip your wrist with the original scoop, you risk losing your powder. 2 to $5 all over the counter, then you gotta clean it up. It's waste of time, waste of money.
Smoke:But when I'm when I'm traveling, I'm in hotels, like, I I usually don't have the the shakers or anything. And then I'm trying to, like, use some little bottle of water with a little lid. Exactly. A little opening. And I'm like, how do I do this?
Smoke:And I pour it in a cup, and I'm trying to stir
Lucas:it, and then
Smoke:I try to get back in the Yeah. Thing. This, like, solves it.
Lucas:Goes right in. And that's yours. There you go.
Smoke:That's awesome. Well, so tell me tell me about alright. So you designed it. You you used your winnings to buy the three d printer. Yep.
Smoke:The was it just like this when it started? It was
Lucas:So actually, Wyatt Brown, behind the camera over there Yeah. Helped me design the Powder Pal. So the first iteration wasn't great. We didn't have this funnel part here.
Smoke:Yeah.
Lucas:We also didn't have this taper. So the powder used to get stuck, it was hard to go in a water bottle.
Smoke:Yeah.
Lucas:And then, you know, we were selling it as what like, just like that. And then through customer feedback, we were like, wait. People want this. People want this. Right.
Lucas:So really, truly listening to customers got us where we are today. Yeah. And that's what's gonna that was that's gonna help us make our next move, which is the collagen that I was speaking about before. Yeah.
Lucas:Through customer feedback. We figured out all these things.
Smoke:Yeah. Well, so alright. So then tell tell me about how you got it to market. Like, how how did you people find out about it? What what do you do?
Smoke:You guys were just using social media? Yeah.
Lucas:So great question. I am kind of a ready, fire, aim kinda guy. Yeah.
Smoke:So I I've used that term many times. So I can appreciate it.
Lucas:Yeah. No. It's awesome. So I literally, I had my MVP, my minimal viral product, and I was going out to, like, gym shows. I was selling at school.
Lucas:I was literally going up to people in the gym. I set a goal. I said, I'm gonna go to the gym, and I'm gonna sell five powder pills today.
Lucas:So I would well, I would, like, harass people in the gym. Basically, I'd go up and be like, what do you think about this? So I'd sell five I'd sell five a day in the gym. And then, I was making TikTok videos, making Instagram videos, and I was like, wow. This there's this thing called TikTok live, and I didn't know what it was.
Lucas:Yeah. I'm not very big on the Internet. And that was, like, a whole untapped market for me. As soon as I started doing that, I saw instant traction, instant success instant success because I noticed that this product is so easily demonstratable. Yeah.
Lucas:You're showing value in real time. And if you could demonstrate that value to people and they see it and watch you do it, you can sell anything to people, to be honest with
Smoke:you. Yeah.
Lucas:As long as you demonstrate the value in real time. So that was really what brought me from zero to a 160 in less than six months.
Smoke:Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, you started doing TikTok live. Yep.
Smoke:People just started putting pressing buy
Lucas:some. Yeah. Yeah. TikTok, you're like so easy. You just press buy.
Lucas:Yeah.
Smoke:Yeah. That's amazing. And then it just took off from there.
Lucas:So then,
Smoke:like, now you're just like, that's your main marketing. Yep. And and now you've got customers who are giving you feedback and saying, you know what? There's no good collagen. Right.
Smoke:Exactly. Or the collagen that I'm using is not working for me or whatever. Yeah.
Lucas:I think people just didn't know about collagen. Like I said, there's brands that just tell people to use a certain amount. But I noticed that if you're 20 years old, you don't really need to take four tablespoons of collagen. You might only need one. Yeah.
Lucas:These brands aren't telling them that. So I'm here to tell you, hey, you're 20 years old, take one scoop of collagen. If you're 60 years old, you need micro doses throughout the day, and you need different types of collagen. So I'm here to tell people that and give them what they actually need. So that's what I'm doing.
Smoke:So now the way you look at it is you've got kind of a loyal following and they're like a captive almost captive base of customers. Yeah. And, you know, you're just curating kind of what else they might need. Yeah.
Lucas:I mean, just solving people's problems, I think. Yeah. That's so fun. I just love it. Like, I started out solving my problem, I was like, you know what?
Lucas:If I have this problem, I guarantee other people have this problem. Yeah. And I noticed. I was like, everyone spills their powders. It's inevitable.
Lucas:Yeah. So if I could prevent that and save people money, why not?
Smoke:Very cool. Yeah. Alright. So bigger picture.
Lucas:Yeah.
Smoke:Where do you see yourself down the road? Like, what do you what do you aspire to?
Lucas:See, that's always a that's a hard question for me because right now, I live in the moment. I wake up. I don't even know what day it is. I just go go to work, get after present. Yeah.
Lucas:No. But I think in the future, I want to be I wanna be a Robert Vara. Yeah. Robert Vara
Lucas:is my mentor. He his his mission is to be significant in the lives of others. Yeah. And I
Lucas:heard him say that, and I was like, wow. That really, like, that touched my heart. Yeah. And if I could be significant in the lives of others, that'd be that'd be so great. I think that's so important to be Yeah.
Lucas:To be insignificant in others' lives because if you don't if you're not doing that every day, like, what is your purpose? You know what mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think
Smoke:we back every day. Exactly. And it's showing up with gratitude Mhmm. For all the people that gave to you
Lucas:Yeah.
Smoke:And got you here. Exactly. And it's like, how do I help the next one? It's and if we literally, it is the definition of of raising your consciousness. Right?
Smoke:So that's like my words, but the way I think about it is if you're highly conscious, you're you're thinking about the all. Right. And the all includes you. Yeah. It includes being successful, having a great family, having, you know, success in your business and Yeah.
Smoke:And abundance. Mhmm. Optimal abundance. Not unlimited abundance. Right.
Smoke:Optimal abundance means give you everything you need in this world. Mhmm. And the best way to do that is to give back to others.
Lucas:I agree.
Smoke:Right? The more you give back, the more abundance you have.
Lucas:I agree wholeheartedly.
Smoke:I love that. Yeah. That's what that's why that's why this is like a magical place because you guys are just, you know, high vibration, super positive energy. And look, everyone has setbacks. Right?
Smoke:You've you've had some along the way.
Lucas:Oh, I've had setbacks.
Smoke:Yeah. Yeah.
Lucas:Yeah. I like, nothing too significant yet.
Smoke:Yeah. But we're, know But you some of
Smoke:your your friends and colleagues and people yeah. You've seen people like things have hasn't hasn't worked out. Right? Yeah. But then what do they do?
Smoke:They dust off and Exactly. Start another one?
Lucas:Or Yeah. We like to say fail fast and fail hard. Yeah. Because through the failures, you learn quicker.
Smoke:Yeah. No. That's one of the things, like, early on in my entrepreneur career. I could have benefited from, like, calling it on some things earlier Mhmm. Instead of, like, oh, no.
Smoke:I can do this and just forcing something that, like, wasn't maybe wasn't working. Sure. Like and then I and then I'm two years into it. I'm like, okay. You know, maybe this is I have to pivot.
Lucas:It's always weird when you, like, take a step back and you get that bird's eye view. It's like, wow. I don't know. Like, you just realize things that happened that you either did well or did wrong, and you have no idea in the moment. Yeah. You have
Lucas:no idea until maybe years after. Like, I'm gonna look back one day and be like, I did that? The heck? You know what I mean?
Smoke:Yeah. But I think your awareness of that is a is a it shows a a level of advancement that is quite good. I mean, just being aware of what you just said Yeah. Saying that is like, okay. Because there's a lot of kids that are like, oh, you know, they're just they're oblivious.
Smoke:Right? You're very present and that's important. Stay that way. Know? Alright.
Smoke:Thank you.
Nick:You're rocking it.
Smoke:Yeah. Well, awesome. Well, where can they find it other than TikTok or is that the only like, either?
Lucas:Can go to powderpal.shop. You can go on TikTok. Just look up powderpal. You can go on Etsy. Yeah.
Lucas:That's pretty much where we have it right now. Yeah. So yeah. Awesome. Appreciate your time.
Smoke:Yeah. Thanks thanks for being on. I I look forward to checking back in and seeing how you're doing. And if I can be of any help to you as you go, let me know.
Lucas:Thanks so much. Yeah. Pleasure.
Smoke:Awesome. Alright.
Lucas:That was a good one.
Smoke:Alright. Rolling. Alright. Nick, welcome to the Smoke Trail.
Nick:Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's cool.
Smoke:Yeah. It's super exciting to be here. I love the energy in this place, and and I love what you're doing. I'd love to hear maybe a little of your backstory, like, before we talk about the product itself. Like, how what got you here?
Smoke:What got you doing this? What was the inspiration?
Nick:Yeah. So, I guess, from the beginning, I'm from Arizona
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:And lived here my whole life. Grew up playing golf. And when I was 14, I won a golf tournament. And, you know, when you're young, you play all the sports, but for whatever reason, I just loved golf. And when I won that golf tournament, decided, man, I love this game.
Nick:Like, I wanna go pro. I wanna do this, make this my real Yeah. Thing. And started traveling the country, competing in every tournament possible, won a few more local tournaments, traveled the country, you know, placed high in some national ones. Wasn't, like, the best ever, but I was good enough to get some offers from some colleges.
Nick:Ended up getting an offer from Arizona State University when I was 16. And then I thought, I'm like, I'm going to ASU, man. That's, the dream if you're from Arizona.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. ASU is a really good golf school.
Nick:Turned 17, and they the coach got fired, and a new coach came in, wiped out everybody on the team. So I lost my spot. At that time, it was a little bit too late in the game to go get a spot at other schools because they'd filled their rosters.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:So I had to perform, like, better than I'd ever performed if I was to go make a case to go play So
Smoke:you were, like, walk walk on, basically.
Nick:Yeah. Basically, walking on.
Nick:And I definitely had the talent to do it, but started getting all up in my head about the future, started getting anxiety. And that manifested as sort of these, like, mini panic attacks on the golf course.
Nick:So I'd step up onto the first tee. Suddenly, heart's in my throat, vision's going blurry. Like, I can't breathe. I'm like, what is happening? Like, suddenly, can't get off the tee box, can't hit the ball.
Nick:And that had never happened before.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:So oftentimes people that have performance anxiety, the secret is to just go do that thing a million times until you're comfortable with it. But what about the people who've already done it a million times and suddenly it's like, where is this problem coming from? I've never had this problem before. And it started happening all the time. I told my coaches about it and they're like, dude, just relax.
Nick:Just breathe. And I'm like, wow, just breathe. Oh, wait, I can't breathe. Yeah. I don't think you get it when your nervous system locks up and it's in full blown fight or flight.
Lucas:Yeah.
Nick:You can't breathe. You can't think. Like, everything just kinda stops. Yeah. And you would do anything to make it stop in that moment because it's just it's painful.
Nick:In those moments too, when you're out on the course, you can't step aside for thirty minutes and find a quiet space Right. Because you gotta go. We got stuff to do. Like, we gotta perform. Are watching you.
Smoke:Yep.
Nick:And that was my experience. I realized there's really nothing that can calm people down. I saw a sports psychiatrist and he prescribed me benzodiazepines, which at the time I knew nothing about any of these things. I'm just like, Oh, it's a pill. It's going to relax me.
Nick:Cool. Yeah. Take it. Now, these are not rescue medications, so you don't take it and you get the effects right away. Right.
Nick:You still have to kind of take it early because it takes an hour to kick in. So I'd take it an hour before golf, and it totally worked. Like, get up on the tee, I don't really feel anything. And I'm like, wow, this is great. Problem was, it created other problems where I didn't feel anything the whole round.
Nick:I'm losing my motivation. I'm tired. I started noticing I'm like, I don't have much focus. I don't really wanna be out here
Smoke:right now. Other other effects.
Nick:Yeah. There's other effects. And then just looking into it more, saw the label. There's a black box warning label for benzodiazepines, which means it could kill you if you combine it with other things like other drugs. If you're drinking, I wasn't drinking alcohol when I was a teenager, but lot of side effects, potential addiction.
Nick:If you become addicted to it, now you have withdrawals, you can't just stop taking it.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:So that was a dangerous pill. I'm like, there's no way. I don't want to take this. And just realized there's nothing that's really designed for someone like me out there dealing with this symptom. So I went to school and wanted to study that response.
Nick:Like, what's going on inside my body? Not from a psychology perspective, but from an engineering perspective. Like, what's physically happening in my brain and my body, and how do we stop it? You know, ideally as soon as possible, and I didn't really care how we did it as long as it was safe and it worked. Studied biomedical engineering for four years and then went straight into the PhD program.
Nick:And in my PhD program is where I had the time to actually do a project, build stuff, do research, learned about stuff like magnetic stimulation. So you can put these big giant coils up to your head. Yeah. I can shut off, like, my whole prefrontal cortex, which is where you do all your thinking and processing. And I could just be, like, doled out and just be like, But it's a giant machine.
Nick:Yeah. You can't take it with you, and you have to have doctor supervision while you're doing it. So I'm like, k. Well, that's not gonna work. Learned about this thing called the vagus nerve Mhmm.
Nick:V a g u s. So the vagus nerve, you know, connects your brain to your body, but its primary job is to pull you out of that fight or flight state. And it does it on its own. You don't really need to do anything. So when you're healthy, people that experience stressors, which everybody gets stressed, you experience a little bit of fight or flight.
Nick:Yeah. But then when it's over, you relax. And that's because the vagus nerve pulls you out of
Smoke:it. Okay.
Nick:But for people, for various reasons, it could be due to injury, illness, concussion, trauma, chronic illness,
Nick:You know, various reasons can cause your vagus nerve to go silent. And that's when if a stressor comes, it stresses you out, but you never recover.
Smoke:And so you're producing cortisol and you're in that fight or flight mode and you don't come down out of it.
Nick:Yeah. You don't come down out of it, or you're very easily triggered and sent back into fight or flight. And I
Smoke:mean, the the interesting thing is that I wanna keep your thought here, but just, you know, we were biologically engineered or developed or evolved, you know, to avoid a saber tooth tiger or whatever, like Yeah. You know, fight or flight was to survive. And fast forward to today, and we still have those primal instincts, primal mechanisms in place, but we're triggering it with things like someone yelling at you in the office, someone cutting you off in a in a car, stressor like, all these stressors that aren't really life threatening, but they trigger that fight or flight thing. So we're doing it to ourselves all the time.
Nick:Yeah. And that's the key. It's the constant exposure to these stressors is keeping your nervous system on edge.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:Like, your your mind knows you're just living daily life, but your nervous system thinks it's in survival mode. Right. Because you can handle one or two stressors a day. But if it's stressor stressor stressor stressor stressor, your nervous system is just locked in that fight or flight state. And most of the time that's why people start to get panic attacks where they never did before is they're just constantly exposed to stuff.
Nick:And so that that could be why it happened to me. You know, being a kid, you're on social media all the time. So it's like constant, like, alertness and, like, you're, you know, you're a little bit stressed out. And then add that into certain situations in life that could trigger a little bit of trauma. Now your nervous system is just full blown fight or flight all the time.
Nick:So the vagus nerve is supposed to pull you out of that. But for the people with chronic stress, usually it's silent. So all we have to do is reactivate the vagus nerve and you can come out of fight or flight within minutes. It doesn't matter how long you've been in it. It could be a decade.
Nick:Like we can pull you out of it in ten minutes. There's a study. The first study I read was they applied electrical stimulation, so energy directly to the nerve inside the ear. And within fifteen seconds, heart rate comes down. Within a few minutes, muscle tension, breathing rate comes down.
Nick:Pretty much all the physical symptoms of being in that fight or flight state come down. And usually it takes about ten to twenty minutes for people to just fully relax.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:And that's just one session. And to me, I was like, that's what I needed when I was on the golf course. So at the time, I tried all the available products, which were like earbud devices.
Nick:And I could feel it, but it wasn't that like hard hitting immediate calm. Like, I needed something now, like sixty seconds or less. Again, I don't want to wait twenty minutes to relax. So I started thinking, I'm like, what if we just cranked up the energy and just hit the vagus nerve really hard for a short amount of time? Would that work?
Nick:And being a scientist, you can mess around with all this stuff. So I built a little machine. And instead of targeting inside the ear, I came down just under the ear. And I'm hitting basically the trunk of the tree. So I'm hitting a larger branch of the nerve.
Nick:Yeah. Cranked it up, and that was it. I'd like eyes closed because I'm just like, woah, this is crazy. And then after, you know, sixty seconds, I removed it. I'm like, head is just kinda like, buzzing, like, my face feels warm.
Nick:And I'm like, that's the feeling I was looking for. Like, that would have reset my brain in those moments when I feel like I
Smoke:And were you your own Survival. Experiment science experiment? Like, were you, like, working on testing everything out on yourself over and over again.
Nick:Yeah. That's how it starts.
Smoke:Right? Yeah.
Nick:Start on yourself.
Smoke:Totally.
Nick:Now the good news is I had that that idea myself, but I started digging into the research, and there was already studies that had been done Mhmm. Stimulation, and it did show that if you you know, the higher intensity you can go, the faster the results. Mhmm. Just a number, for example, like the maximum I saw, they had put out about 20 milliamps of power where the typical stimulation's around two to four. So, you know, you're putting it from two to four to 20.
Nick:Yeah. And you're seeing results that are much more immediate. And the product we built maxes out at about 16, so it's not even as high as what's been done.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:But we built a high powered product. Next was let's go do the research, make sure this is safe, it's effective. Started out with 150 college students and just measuring the safety. And, you know, after a single session, no side effects. No no one reported that they couldn't tolerate it.
Nick:Everyone did it. Yeah. And was like, that was let's get a real world population of people with severe fight or flight. So we looked at PTSD panic disorder.
Nick:We got twenty four patients come in. We did a placebo control. So half got placebo, half got the real active group, had a one hundred percent rate of relaxation, only a thirty percent in the placebo. And we had a thirty six percent average drop in state anxiety reduction after a single use, which was twice the drop in the placebo group. So we're twice as effective as placebo.
Nick:You're always gonna get a drop in the placebo group because that's the nature of stress and anxiety is a lot of it is mental. Totally. You're gonna Like, often
Smoke:you're You tell yourself get sick. You're If you're healthy, you're probably healthy.
Nick:But but the goal is to be more effective than that. Right? So we demonstrated it was more effective. And then I looked at how does this compare to the fastest acting benzos? So the acting benzos is a nasal alprazolam spray.
Nick:Like you're spraying benzos up your nose. Yeah. It still kicks in about ten to fifteen minutes. And there's only a few clinical trials that are reported on this, but the average symptom reduction after fifteen minutes is about thirty seven percent. So we're 1% less effective than them, but like ballpark, we're as effective as that.
Nick:But the real one was they had a thirty seven percent rate who achieved clinically meaningful reductions. We had a sixty seven percent rate. So we're almost twice as effective in terms of how many people will experience
Smoke:the But with no side effects.
Nick:But with no side effects. Yeah. It's it works a little faster. You can take it with you everywhere. You don't need a prescription for it.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:You can just buy it. And long term, it's way more affordable than a benzo prescription. Like, benzos, you get them for cheap on insurance, but you still gotta go to a doctor. There's co pays. There's all kinds of stuff.
Smoke:So I know I heard a little of the backstory, but, like, you started out kind of stress relief generically, and then you fine tune your messaging and your targeting. Tell tell me a little bit about that. Like, how did that go? And, like, how did that that that's what really got you guys starting to get real traction.
Nick:Yeah. Well, we we had really fast traction in our first year of launch. So when I had the product, we actually spent two and a half years doing all the FDA clinical trials, safety testing, making sure it was compliant. And then once we got approval to go to market, I didn't have a marketing plan. I was just like, crap, I'm just a biomedical engineer, researcher.
Nick:I don't know how to sell stuff. So it took me another several months to figure that out. And we started advertising on Facebook. I learned how to edit videos and film myself. And the angle we used was that high level, if you're stuck in fight or flight, this will help you get out of it really fast.
Nick:And we just took off. We did $1,300,000 our first year in revenue just from that advertising channel. And then we made some, I wouldn't say mistakes, but we didn't understand fully supply chain, and so we spent several months out of stock. That kind of hurt our traction. And then, you know, I was doing everything.
Nick:The first year I was making all the videos, I was doing all the editing, it was like it was a lot of work. And so naturally, if you want to get to the next level, you got to start hiring teams to do stuff. Hired the wrong team, they weren't really great at advertising, and they took the message to a more high level, like stress relief, which
Nick:I get it, it's a bigger audience because everybody's stressed, wasn't a painful problem. Because most people, if you go up to them and say, Are you stressed? Everyone's gonna say yes.
Smoke:Yeah, and there's a lot of modalities for helping solve stress in general. Yeah, a lot of them. Whether it's meditation, breathing, all kinds of things.
Nick:Yeah, but this isn't a stress relief product. Yeah. Will it reduce stress? Of course. Yeah.
Nick:But this is for people whose nervous systems are stuck Yeah. In that fight Maybe flight they're not panicking all the time, but their nervous system feels like it's trying to survive all day. Mhmm. And they might get panic attacks, you know, once or twice So a it's acute stress. Yeah.
Nick:It's a really fast way to pull out of a severe fight or flight state.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:So did some shuffling around with our team, and we're back now to that core message of fight or flight. We've even been doing some panic attack kind of messaging because that's what it's most effective for. Like, if we just talk about panic attacks for a second, panic attack is the most severe form of a stress response. Yeah. That's when you literally everything locks up.
Nick:You can't breathe. Like, you can't think. You can't do anything. You just have to let it pass. And it sucks.
Nick:It's painful. You know, they last maybe ten minutes, but because it's such a painful experience, a lot of people spend the next several hours just trying to recover from what the heck just happened. Right.
Nick:So maybe they can't go to work that day or, you know, they're just not gonna be productive at all. And this is the first tool that can literally reset that nervous system response in fifteen seconds. All you have to do is just pull it out, open up the cap, and apply it right here. It takes two seconds. Okay.
Nick:So if you can feel the panic coming on, usually panic can come on in about, you know, thirty seconds to a minute. So that's why meditation doesn't work or all these other tools don't work because there's a setup time.
Nick:But if you have something that in two seconds, I mean, you can catch any panic attack and stop it before it starts. Yeah. And that's been crushing it for us. Like, lot of people are seeing the benefits there.
Smoke:I I'm sure you've already thought of this, but, like, I think about people who I know some people who, like, are really fearful of flying. Yeah. You know, what a great tool to have. Like, you know?
Nick:Well, so this is this is really fun. So we had a lot of people in the early days say, Hey, it'd be great if you had a hands free version. You know, the handheld was designed for rapid, like, on the spot, calm when you need it. Yeah. But there's a lot of other use cases where you would want to stimulate your vagus nerve for twenty minutes, thirty minutes at a time, especially for sleep.
Nick:If you struggle to fall asleep, you might want a longer vagal nerve session to just really deeply calm the nervous system. So we were like, alright. Let's make a hands free version. We you know, we tried a lot of designs. We tried some wonky, like, neck wearables, but it was like, those just look weird.
Nick:Like, I want something people can use in public that's not gonna draw attention. So that's what we did with this headphone product. Yeah. So these headphones are Bose level quality Yeah. Noise cancellation, and we put our stimulation components on the sides.
Nick:You can see in the gold here. Okay. And what you do is you just put them on like normal, and the electrodes automatically press right against the vagus nerve on both sides. So it's a little more effective, or I would say you get the results a little faster when you do both. Hands free, combine it with music.
Nick:And we did, you know, we we just sold a thousand of these on a preorder. We're not selling them right now because we gotta get the orders in first. Yeah. In our early beta testing, we did a beta test with 200 of these about a year ago, and the number one use case was flight anxiety. We had a lot of professional athletes reach out to us, or their medical people on the team, and say, like, During season, we fly so much, and there's at least three to five people on every team who just get that flight anxiety.
Nick:And it's like the perfect modality for that. Just pop it on, blocks out all the noise, you can close your eyes, listen to your favorite music, and it stimulates that nerve and keeps you from going over the top. It just keeps you regulated the whole time.
Smoke:Makes sense.
Nick:So really cool modality for that, especially if it's a three, four hour flight, just wear it the whole time and just keep calm. Really Yeah, couple different modalities we have now. We've got the more long term sustained calm, and then the quick hit of calm whenever you're what is this? Yeah, this is really interesting too. So one of my thoughts that I was having is how do we make the stimulation work even faster, but how do we make it last longer?
Nick:Because when you stimulate the vagus nerve, it works fast, calms you down quickly, but in a lot of cases, for people that are in constant exposure to stress, it might not last for a while. I'll calm you down right now, but someone could come in and freak you out and then suddenly you're back in and you don't to hit it again, which is fine, not too hard to use. But my thought is, how do we make it last all day? Started looking into the mechanisms, like what's physically going on. And the way the vagal nerve stim works is it actually signals to the brain to open up what's called GABA receptors, and then there's a chemical called GABA that gets sucked into the receptors, and that's what triggers down regulation.
Nick:Okay. So if there's not a lot of the free floating GABA in your brain, it doesn't really matter if you hit the vagal nerve stem. It's not gonna trigger down regulation.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:So you need both. Now, this is a GABA supplement. But it's not just a GABA supplement, it's a liposomal GABA supplement, which means it crosses the blood brain barrier and gets into the body within about five minutes. So it's the fastest acting form of GABA. You can take GABA pills, goes through digestion, takes about an hour to get into your system.
Nick:But with this liquid, you put it under your tongue, absorbs in a few minutes, and it gets into the brain where it's needed most to Now down this by itself is just putting GABA in the brain. If you have a lot of GABA in the brain, it could be helpful, but you still need to get the receptors to open. So this by itself won't do much. But you take this and then immediately do this, and it's like, next level calm. I mean, your eyes are closing.
Nick:You wanna, like, fall asleep. And that's actually why we called it Hoolist sleep because it's designed to put you to sleep faster. Yeah.
Nick:But this will stay in your system for several hours, keeping you asleep the whole night. It's not a artificial, you know, manufactured benzodiazepine. It's not a
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:It's not a pill. It's all natural. We're just putting more of what your body naturally makes so you can feel that effect, you know, quicker and it'll last a little longer.
Smoke:Well, that's obviously helping a lot of people. So it's you're it's you're crushing it. You're doing well? It's taking off?
Nick:Yeah. It's it's doing good. We haven't launched GABA yet. We're about to launch it
Smoke:It's next.
Nick:Next week. What's great about the GABA is we're using a local manufacturer in Tempe, Arizona.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:So we were able to get a lot of formulas tested really fast
Nick:Without having to wait. We just went down there, told them what we wanted, tried a lot of stuff. And then we used the branch forty nine sales team. Those guys are, you know, high stress all the time. They gotta be always on and perform.
Nick:Yeah. Gave them all samples of the formula that we dialed in. And all of them came back and were like, yeah, I was out in five minutes and slept the whole night. All of them said that they didn't wake up once. Only one of them said it took them like thirty minutes to fall asleep.
Nick:But when he did, he was like, my dreams were crazy that night. Like, I was I was sleeping, man.
Smoke:Yeah. It went deep.
Nick:Yeah.
Smoke:It went deep. That's amazing.
Nick:So I'm excited for that. So, yeah, we'll have a lot of different options for people that, you know, are just looking to overall improve nervous system health.
Smoke:Yeah. Well, I think this you are, and you're gonna help a lot more people as this thing gets out there. What's your long term aspiration? Either in the business or in life?
Nick:Well, in the business, I I it's kind of arbitrary, you know, I'm like, I wanna I want a million people using these products. Yeah. That'd be really cool because a million people is still, like, a tiny percent of how many people in the country in the world
Smoke:who could benefit
Nick:struggle with this. Sure. So I'd like as many people as possible to just try it, especially, you know, I guess my initial mission was to fight back against those doctors who don't even ask you questions. They don't
Smoke:They just prescribe the benzo thing.
Nick:That doctor just listened to what I said and said, here's a benzo. Didn't run any tests. Didn't tell if I was deficient in anything. He didn't ask anything else I was doing. He was just like, oh, those are your
Smoke:symptoms? Really, that's just masking the problem. Yeah. Like, it's and Of course. With with lots of, like, you know, lots of, you know, other effects, right, that are not not positive.
Smoke:And it seems to me that this both the combination of stimulating this plus the GABA, you know, it does it it won't necessarily eliminate it for you. But if you can get yourself where you're not experiencing those fight or flight a lot, you're not experiencing the panic level, it gives you the space to clear other things. Right?
Smoke:So a lot of this is subconscious, and it's and it's stuff that has to be cleaned up and that takes time and work. You can't really work on that stuff if you're in a panic mode. No. So if you can get yourself where you're functional using this tool, you know, this gives people a window or an avenue to, you know, do further deeper work of, you know, different ways to different modalities to clear stuff. And Yeah.
Smoke:You know, you've always got this, you know, available, so you never have to be worried about the panic. You never have to be worried about that, but you can also do deeper work to clean stuff.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. I mean, you know, this stuff is not a cure. But drugs are not a cure either.
Nick:Drugs just mask it. They don't fix it. They sedate you. They just make it numb so you don't feel it. Stuff, while it's not a cure, this actually strengthens the nervous system to make it more resilient over time.
Nick:But it doesn't mean you're not going to be affected by stuff. Now, if I were to to give it my best shot at trying to get someone to totally cure their stress anxiety, which is impossible, like everybody's going to have that to some degree, but just get you back to normal. First, we have to get control of the nervous system. Calm yourself down, make sure your body can feel relaxed. Now we can start to think through the triggers, the symptoms.
Nick:That's the whole job of a therapist, right? Is to talk through those things. Yeah.
Smoke:Well, it's and it's the it's the shadow work, the deeper finding out what's in your subconscious. Yeah. You know, what traumas, whatever things that have happened that are driving that stuff can be cleared. I mean, I know that because I did it. So I had I had panic attacks at one point.
Smoke:I didn't know this didn't exist when I was doing it. Yeah. They were giving me medicine. But in my process of cleaning up, I eliminate all that stuff. Yeah.
Smoke:For sure. But I I look at this as a great you know, it's way better than the medicine. And it's a it gives you space to do work on yourself to clean that stuff up. And, you know, and that's that's magic. I mean, you you Yeah.
Smoke:You can't even work on stuff if you're in a stress mode. No. You've got to clean that stress up. And then you can introduce things like, you know, meditation and mindfulness and breathing and all kinds of things, but you can't do that in a panic mode.
Nick:No. You can't.
Smoke:So it's a combination of things.
Nick:Yeah. The most powerful technique that I that ever worked for me for just being able to lock in and perform under pressure was visualization. Yeah. But it wasn't just like, alright. Just visualize.
Nick:It was deep work. I had to lay down on a couch. For the first twenty minutes, I was just trying to relax my body. And I would do that
Nick:through progressive muscle relaxation. And if you do it well, you do get to a state where your body doesn't feel like it's in existence. It's like you're not here. I'm not having some weird experience where I'm floating up, but it's just like you're so relaxed. But it's hard to get into that state.
Nick:It takes serious mental focus and effort just to get there. But once you're there, now everything's very clear. Yeah. And you can see whatever it is you wanna focus on. And what I would work on is I'd put myself in that golf situation, and I try to simulate what it feels like to be panicking.
Nick:And then I would visualize myself performing perfectly in that state of panic. And by doing that, I would trick my brain into thinking, like, this is actually normal, or, like, you can actually do this when you're panicking.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. So that way, if I ever get on the first tee and panic hits, I'm like, I've done this a million times. This isn't a problem. But you have to practice that. Right?
Nick:And you have to do that through meditation visualization, but you can't get into that if you can't relax. Yeah. Yeah.
Smoke:No. This to me seems like a really interesting avenue for a lot of people who have resistance to meditation. It's because, like, they they are so in their their monkey mind. Right? They they the thoughts, they can't their thoughts are coming out of so hard, they can't get into that meditation.
Smoke:They like, gets in the way. So if you can get into a relaxed mode where your thoughts are calmed or Yeah. You know, you've got that space to work on that. So I I think this is really interesting on that front too.
Nick:Yeah. And, like, you know, a lot of athletes use our products, a lot of other high performers. And anytime I can get on a call with them, I always try to tell them, I'm like, Look, don't just think this is going to fix it. If you want to be the best in the world at what you do, you have to have the best mind in the world. Because, one, have good to control of your nervous system, but you also have to have the ability to just lock in and focus when it counts.
Nick:And the only way to practice that is through visualization. I mean, it's not the only way, but they say you have to practice whatever it is you wanna do. So if you wanna practice a game seven championship game, well, the only way to practice that is to go be in a game seven championship game, but how many opportunities you have to do that? Yep. Alternatively, you can visualize a game seven championship game.
Nick:And if you get into that deep state, it can feel very real. Sure. And you
Nick:can do that every single day. Yeah. And if
Nick:you do that every single day, by the time you actually make it to the game seven championship game, you're gonna be like, I've been here a million times. Like, this is easy. Yeah. Yeah. Versus the guys that choke, they've never practiced that, so they get to the game seven, and the moment becomes way too big for them, and they choke.
Smoke:Yeah.
Nick:And, I mean, that's Kobe Bryant. Like, that's what he talked about all the time. He's visualization. Mhmm. Like, mental toughness.
Nick:Like, you know, I tell sales guys. I'm like, if you struggle with, like, getting nervous closing a deal, well, go visualize yourself closing a deal, or go role play a million times until, you know, you got it dialed
Smoke:Definitely, it's it's the magic to unlocking performing under stress. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a great thing. Alright. So this environment is magical.
Smoke:You guys have this ecosystem here helping each other. Right? Yeah. It's awesome. It's like, hey.
Smoke:I'm having trouble with this, and you raise your hand and, like, teams from all these different groups descend and you all help each other. Yeah?
Nick:Yeah. This is, the best place ever if you're a startup. Yeah. Big open open space. Space.
Smoke:Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:And everyone knows everyone. We all know what we're working on. And just walking around, like, you know, for example, the one kid who does TikTok Lives, and he's crushing it.
Robert:Yeah.
Nick:I'm like, how do you do TikTok Lives? Just go over there and be like, hey, Tell me about TikTok Live. And he's like, oh, dude. I could show you and, like, set it up for you. Yeah.
Nick:Like, that's cool. He comes over to me. You know, I'm running ads. So he's like, hey, man. I wanna run some ads.
Nick:I'm like, dude. I'll show you exactly how to do it. Yeah.
Smoke:Yeah. It's nice.
Nick:Whiteboard. Robert is, like, the most helpful guy ever because he knows a of lot people, but he, like, truly wants everybody in here to succeed. And he's connecting people and, like, promoting everybody versus, you know, I've been part of other start up, you know, accelerators or groups, co working spaces where the guys who run it do nothing.
Smoke:Yeah. Never there. Yeah. No. Quiet and all There's a magic there's an energy field here that's about, like, propping everyone up and helping them.
Smoke:Right? And everyone's gotta do their own thing, but, like, it's like, how do we help each other? And how do we you know, and it raises the bar. Right?
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. Super fun to be a part of. But, yeah, ultimately, it's just, you know, we're here to grow companies, and everybody knows that.
Nick:So we're all in the same sort of in the same boat. Like, hey. We're all trying to grow and, like, make money. It's not awkward to, like, share financial Yeah. Information because we're all, you know, dealing with the same stuff.
Nick:Whereas, you know, other oftentimes, if you don't know someone, you're like, you don't wanna talk about the financials of your business because it's like Yeah.
Smoke:And and it's a lonely it it can be a very lonely thing being an entrepreneur, and it's, awesome to have the kind of camaraderie and, you know, open system here that is, you know, it it just conducive to solving problems quicker.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Smoke:Yeah. So it's Awesome. Well, thank you.
Nick:Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Smoke:I look forward to
Smoke:Monitoring your your progress as we go as you go along and Sure. And watch you explode into a into a even even greater business as it grows.
Nick:Just gonna keep the world calm. That's our goal.
Smoke:Right. Right on. So Awesome. Thanks, man. Yeah.
Smoke:Thanks for coming.