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"Making an impact is usually provoked through circumstance, experience, and emotion. When my son was diagnosed with sensorineural hearing loss, I could have never then known that my inner activist would be unleashed."
The Smoke Trail, hosted by Smoke Wallin, is a journey into awakening consciousness, weaving authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests to unlock high performance and perfect health. Each episode delves into spirituality, leadership, and transformation, offering tools to transcend trauma and find your bliss along the way. It’s a reflective space for achieving peak potential and inner peace in a distraction-filled world.
Welcome to the Smoke Trail hosted by Smoke Wallin. Join Smoke on a unique journey of awakening consciousness, sharing authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests. Explore spirituality, leadership, and transformation, tools to elevate your Path.
Smoke:Hi, Shireen. Hello. So great to have you here.
Shireen:Thank you for having me.
Smoke:It's a funny story how this came about, but I figure we'll share it. We were flying together. I was upgraded. My wife, Anita, was in the back. I was upgraded, and I got to sit next to you on a flight to Indianapolis.
Shireen:Yes, I remember that well.
Smoke:And, well, we both travel a lot and, a lot of times put on our headphones and don't, don't engage. Somehow, we engaged and we had a really deep conversation literally the whole flight.
Shireen:Yes. Yes. And I don't even know how that even began. I can't even remember how we went from just sitting next to each other to like soul, that was amazing. I have no idea how that
Smoke:Yeah. Well, that's actually how the universe works in many ways. We we with our ego mind mentality, we think we can explain things and we really can't and what we can do is embrace what comes our way and you know, and just be present. And that's, I think that's what we did in that conversation. And I, I, my intention is to continue the conversation that we had and to share with our audience some of your story and the journey you've been on and just some of the wisdom that you've gained along the way and just have a conversation.
Shireen:I look forward to it.
Smoke:Awesome. And do you want to add anything to my intention?
Shireen:You know, I think this is going to be great. I think that you're a very open person and I'm a very open, transparent person. And I think just all of that combined is going to lead to some really beautiful conversations. So excited.
Smoke:I agree. I agree. I think that's what connected us. You've got a beautiful soul and you have done such amazing things. I'd love to just start out with a little of your background and kind of the story that got you to create your organization, Deaf Kids Code, which is doing amazing work.
Smoke:We'll have time to talk about what that is, but what what what started that? I know you you're you're I know you've got a a daughter and then you've got a son, and your son had some issues. But can you give us a little of the origin story and what led you to like, why did you become a founder? Like, what what what got into your head that said, hey, I need to go do this and and create this organization and and do all this stuff. But something motivated you.
Smoke:Right?
Shireen:That it was never a dream, aspiration, or life goal to become a founder. So I'll start out with that because there is no ego with the work that I do. So I have two children and my second child was born with severe hearing loss. He had no language at the age of four. He was a late diagnosis.
Shireen:So he was born on the Deaf spectrum, which took a while to unravel and to be discovered. His language was immeasurable. And when I say immeasurable, meaning that all the tests that exist to measure language proficiency or even comprehension was ungraphable. At the moment that he was diagnosed, I was so desperate for resources because everything you Google is so dismal and so depressing. The education outcomes, the employment outcomes, everything about which I also discovered about disabilities in general is just not very uplifting.
Shireen:So from that moment that that happens, it automatically triggers a sense of extreme fear. Because to anybody who's listening who is a parent, you know, you're only happy as your least happiest child, which is a term. But the idea that your child may never flourish, never be able to thrive is a very scary notion to grapple with.
Smoke:So before that, before the diagnosis, you knew there was something wrong, but you weren't able to tell. They weren't able to tell you, like, what's going on, like, what's happening, there's something. You knew you guys were, like, running tests, doing all kinds of things, and it wasn't showing up.
Shireen:Yeah, it was quite interesting because my son could do, like, these complex puzzles. So I'm like okay well
Smoke:So he was smart. He had the idea. He had some
Shireen:Yeah, the intellectual ability was being exemplified in other ways But linguistically, you know, it's like I would tell him that you know, okay, you know grab that book, we're leaving and he would like pick up shoes and he would be like this and he would like open the door this, and it was like things were not aligning, like something was missed. I, like most people, had no experience in the disability world. And I especially the Deaf world. And so I always thought growing up that Deaf was mute. Deaf was like mute, unresponsive to sound and language.
Shireen:And I never understood the idea that all disabilities are a spectrum. And that if you are hard of hearing, that that is not necessarily always an age related diagnosis, that anybody could be hard of hearing and things could just be misinterpreted or misunderstood. And so that was the complexity. And quite frankly, you know, when, I was grateful for the diagnosis when it was finally revealed. My immediate first thought to the universe was, Oh, deafness?
Shireen:No problem. I can work with that. Because I felt that as long as intellectually he was solid, then we can work with that. So I was not fearful of the deafness because to me, my automatic instinct was, well, deafness is not a barrier. So, I mean, thinking about my feelings then, but so much more happened after that.
Shireen:Like we don't even realize how many gaps and disparities. And when we talk about disenfranchised communities, I mean you with the homeless, and we know that it's not just linear, you know, there's so many layers to every disparity. So if we're talking about rural communities, well, why are rural communities disenfranchised? There's going to be multi layered arguments data points on what is the culmination of what makes a community disenfranchised. It's not just one singular thing.
Shireen:It's not because-
Smoke:No, the world is complex and we humans try to simplify things and say, This is that, this is that. We categorize things in simple ways and it's just not the way it works. You have to be able to hold more than one thought in your mind at the same time that sometimes overlap and sometimes conflict, right? 100%. There's never exactly one exact answer, even though we live in a quick sound bite world.
Smoke:This is one reason I started the Smoke Trail, is so that I could have more in-depth conversations where we could really explore at a more in-depth level the essence and the real issues facing. So here you are, you've been doing all these tests, you finally get a diagnosis, it's severe hearing loss or lack of hearing and you're like, Okay, we can handle this. And then you run into what? A brick wall of some sort, I'm understanding. But like what did you run into?
Smoke:Now we know what it is, what do we do?
Shireen:Now we know what it is. And now the first brick wall is that I call our insurance company to say that my son has been diagnosed and, you know, he needs hearing aids. According to the World Health Organization, literally every state health department across the country considers hearing loss as a medical condition. And we had like what would be considered the best possible version of health insurance coverage. I call our insurance company and say that my son needs hearing aids.
Shireen:And they said, oh, you know, no, sorry, that's not something that is covered. It's considered a cosmetic device.
Smoke:Cosmetic?
Shireen:Cosmetic, like a nose job or hair transplant. It's considered optional. So that was the first slap on my face when we're talking about, you know, one of a multitude of many obstacles. And you know, also going deeper into that, I also realized that my gosh, like at that time, you know, data was not very strong in terms of collected data on certain segments of society is beneficial to bad policy. You don't have to do anything when it's not backed by data.
Shireen:So why bother collecting data when we can just remain as the status quo and not do anything about it?
Smoke:So
Shireen:much more continues on after that.
Smoke:So what about like I'm sure you guys figured out how to get hearing aids over the years, but what about, so when he's just at the age of going to kindergarten probably or almost And then quickly you're in elementary school age bracket. And how does he operate in the school system? And then what did you find that was working or not working?
Shireen:Well, my greatest fear was my child being bullied and being tormented because, you know, he was the only child in his school that was deaf and the hearing aids that he wore, you know, you wear there are molds that are put in the ear and then the device goes over the ear. And for children especially, you know, they can pick the color of their molds. You know, they so my son was very big in superheroes. And so if Spider Man was the thing, his molds would be bright, bright blue and
Smoke:bright It
Shireen:would almost look like Silly Putty. What we did was every year, at the beginning of the school year, I would have him do a presentation about, and it would be entitled About My Ears. And because he had to have a CommPilot, which was like a Bluetooth part of a microphone system. And the teacher would have to wear a microphone that would project her voice onto that Bluetooth that he would wear that would then project it to his hearing aids. And as a way to avoid any ugly situations, we would just get it out of the way at the beginning of the school year that this is me, this is what I need to communicate.
Shireen:You know, and quite frankly, the goal that I had for him every single year was to be a strong self advocate. And that was always the goal. I didn't care about grades. I didn't care about those other aspects because I knew that if he had strong self advocacy skills, the world can be hit. Well, the world is not going to bend towards you in any It is inaccessible.
Shireen:And disability or not, you know, self advocacy is a very powerful skill and everybody should have it.
Smoke:Everybody should have it. And we never talked about it, but my son, my second of my four, Cameron, had a problem when he was born. We didn't know what it was for months, but well, for days, and then and then we didn't know fully the extent of it for longer than that. He was born with one of his eyes not formed properly, so it was all puffy and swollen, so we just thought it was just that. As we got into it, we found out his eye didn't form properly.
Smoke:He had probably, I don't know, half a dozen surgeries between being born and I'd say under two years old. We had to make the hard decision to remove his eye and put in a prosthetic in there which had to be replaced periodically as he grew up so that his face would grow normally. We had really good doctors and we were very fortunate. We had a family that could help and so we were able to give him the best possible care. The reason I bring it up is I do understand A, not knowing, B, finding out and going, Okay, one eye, we have two, that's okay.
Smoke:But then our fear was you got to protect the good eye. Was always my fear, like you have to protect his other eye. He had glasses from the time he was a little baby because we wanted to have protection, just in case, right? And so, he always had glasses on, we were always making him wear his headgear or eye goggles. And as he got into sports, it became a bigger issue.
Smoke:But my thing was exactly what you we never allowed it to be a thing. Like, he didn't if he didn't have those goggles or glasses on, goggles for sports and glasses for just day to day, he wouldn't even known that there's a there there's any difference. And it wasn't until, I think, it was, like, at some level of baseball, he was really good he's a really good athlete and Cameron. And at some point, he got to a level of baseball where he could do everything, but he couldn't see the ball anymore when he was hitting. It was going too fast for his depth perception, and that was when, like, he's like, yeah, dad.
Smoke:I can't I can't do this anymore. He was a great player, and he's like, you know, it's just not I can't play I can't see it when it's going by me. But but I I totally appreciate those feelings and obviously every situation is different, but when it's your child and they have an issue, the main thing you want to do is make sure that they can take care of themselves and that they're self sufficient.
Shireen:100%. How old is your son now?
Smoke:34. I'm getting mixed up of everybody's ages. 33. I think he's 33, about to turn 34. He has a baby and they live back in Indianapolis and he's awesome.
Shireen:You know, mindset plays a very big role for all human beings in this life's journey. You are what you believe. And I always say that. Absolutely. You are what you believe.
Shireen:So if you believe that you are stoppable, then you will be stoppable. If you believe that you can overcome, then you will overcome. If you believe that this is not an issue, then it will not be an issue. There's no greater disability than a person believing that they can't. Minute that is actually the greatest disability that any human being can ever have.
Shireen:And that is something that I believe is actually probably my first principle in terms of like who I am. Because the way I have lived my life, I've always been very proactive. I've always been pro underdog. I've always have never yielded in my belief that anybody anywhere has the ability to pursue greatness.
Smoke:Yeah, well that's important. I feel like we could stop the show now and that would be If everyone left here believing that, what you believe in your heart happens. It's true. And if you think, I can't do something or things are going to go bad, it's probably going to happen that way. And if you think, I can do this one way or another, no matter what it takes, I'm going to do this and you can see it and you can feel it, then it's going to happen that way.
Smoke:It really does.
Shireen:Yes, it really does. Know, throughout the years, I became very involved with advocacy with grassroots non profit organizations that supported populations like my son. And I saw my son in all these kids. I saw them no differently even now. I still see all of these children as like my own child and I just see limitless potential.
Shireen:And it really is what the driving force is. But it's even more interesting, like I had a meeting with one of my teammates yesterday and she's a front end developer and she has her own like story of like having to overcome unbelievable obstacles and said to me, which so many other people from the disability community has said that, wow, like how different my life could have been if I had had an experience like this or if I had had somebody like myself in my life. And I think we take for granted also what that having even one person that can evangelize that belief system to
Smoke:you. I want to frame, get people to understand what the organization does because you're you were referring to it and the experiences people are having. And we kinda we got up to the point of, like, you're you faced your challenges, and then let's get to that. Let's talk a little bit about that, and let's come back to this because I think it's so important. But I want people to understand Deaf Kids Code, why does it exist?
Smoke:What what was the what was the reason? And what are you guys doing now? And then let's come back to, like, how it's impacting everyone.
Shireen:So I started this organization, Deaf Kids Code, where we promote computer science, technology, design thinking, engineering, and now AI literacy to students who are Deaf. And the reason why that specific mission is because workforce development in the disability space is extremely archaic and outdated. It has not evolved at all. The needle has barely wiggled in the last like forty years.
Smoke:Well, one might argue that workforce development in general has not moved at all, but I can only imagine how bad it is with the disabled community.
Shireen:So imagine that workforce development already is a very troubling ecosystem for the non disabled. And then add these additional categories. Now imagine like, and no population is really homogenized in The United States Of America. You can be urban and have like all of these other things that you can be rural and all of these things, you can be a veteran and all of these things. It is like everybody is so multi layered with their identities that it's so messy.
Shireen:And then you add disability and then add it as an additional subcategory even though over thirty percent of the population has a disability and every human being on earth will have a disability throughout their lifetime. What's so bizarre to me, the lack of understanding, is that unlike other dichotomies that exist, disability is the one category that all of us with 100% certainty at some point in our life will be part of. I mean everybody is one breath, one blink, one catastrophe away to belonging to that category. Seen or disability that is visual or not visually obvious. A wild notion that we still have to, you know, discuss the value of inclusion because what people don't realize is that this is agnostic to race, it's agnostic to socioeconomics, it's agnostic to where in the country or the world you're born in, it's agnostic to your gender, it's agnostic to literally everything.
Shireen:And yet we're still, you know, to fight for like every single thing that any of us can belong to at any second.
Smoke:One could argue, and this might be a stretch, but I'll make the argument. One could argue that if you don't have some challenge that you recognize or some specific disability that you're exposed to, you're at a disadvantage. The beautiful thing about your experience and your example that you set for all of us is your family, you came across this situation and there's a lot of options, One of which is, get your head in the sand and be like, 'Woe is me, system's against us, nobody cares about us, go down a path of That's not what you did. That's not what you did. I'll go so far as to say you were blessed by having a son who had this challenge because it brought out such a beautiful quality in you to help so many people.
Shireen:My best friend actually, who's been with me since the beginning, she said this the other day that she's like, you know, that though my son has ended up being this like extraordinary human being, where he's an incredible musician, is studying some very complex topics and just, you know
Smoke:He's at Purdue, right?
Shireen:So he's at Purdue University. And so my son is now 20. And he is studying applied physics and math and AI and he won an award for his own quantum computing research that, you know, I mean, this is a kid that I started the organization because I didn't know if college was in the cards for him.
Smoke:Yeah, here is blowing away his peers. I started out in engineering and didn't finish. So I'm one of the peers that he would have passed up.
Shireen:Yeah, but the thing is that because I knew his potential and I knew so many kids like him with all this unrealized potential, that nothing to me as a human being, part of this communal world, do I find more devastating than my inability to be the beneficiary of that untapped potential? And whenever I see stories of tragedy or drug abuse and kids or people just lost forever, not that the it's to me the more crushing part of it is the loss of potential of that human spirit being stolen versus how what their contributions to this life could have been and how we could have rather it's, you know, through an artist or entrepreneurship or just being a kind human being. Something as simple as, you know, a smile walking passing through each other is a sign of generosity and charity.
Smoke:It's And it it's funny how it's funny how if you stare if you if you pull up next to somebody and you smile at them, they'll either turn away, they'll hit the gas and drive away as fast as they can, or sometimes you're gonna smile back, but it's so unusual. Right? It's like it's such a, like, what what's wrong with that person who's smiling at me? Right? Sometimes.
Shireen:Because I smile, you know. I think it takes so much effort to not smile. It's so contrary that it's not that, you know, I want to be best friends with everyone, certainly not. But you and I had talked about how much adversity we faced in our lives. So it's not like, oh, I've never known struggle or my life has been cotton candy and rainbows and butterflies.
Shireen:Like, not at all. Not at all. And I think this is something that when people meet me, they have these assumptions that, oh, your life must have been, you know, you must have been born very privileged and this and that and people just have assumptions because you haven't fallen apart. You know that you're not in shambles and you're not living in the gutter lines. They just assume that somehow you were spoon fed and nothing could be further from the truth.
Smoke:When you were able to deal with your challenges, and some call them shadows, know, they stay with you. The the the big deep challenges that you had as a child or as your, you know, throughout your life. And you learn to embrace them, learn to not be afraid of them. And you there's an alchemical process which happens where they become a part of you. They're never not a part of you, but you transcend them.
Smoke:So you're you're able to hold space for others. And I think that's why we connected because energetically, you know, you don't have to wear it on your sleeve. You know, if there's an energetic essence that is clear that, you know, you've done that stuff. And you don't have to it doesn't have to like, people don't need to know the story. Same with me.
Smoke:Like, I don't need to talk about my specific story for people to know that I hold space for them and I can potentially be helpful to them because they can sense it. That's true of all of us. There's an energetic signature that you have, that I have, call it our soul, whatever, but it's our energy body that encompasses every single thing that you've ever dealt with in this life or another, and it's clear to the universe. So, we may not know it in our human form, day to day mind, don't understand what you're seeing, but there's a higher level of us that does resonate with that and understands it.
Shireen:It just somehow came into my space, the revisiting of that quote, which is that I thank the gods for my unconquerable soul, you know, for I am the master of my destiny. And I think that there's I think this is what it is, right? Is that there is a certain resilience. And I mean, we all have such fragility about us, but the human spirit is so magnificent when it rises. You know?
Shireen:I mean, and that
Smoke:And that capability, and this is what is beautiful, that capability is what you know and I know resides in every single human. Whether you're deaf, whether you're blind, whether you've got something or don't have something, whether you're born into poverty, you're in an abusive situation, whatever the situation is, everyone has this. The problem is how do you recognize that and get beyond the issue of the problem and the issue and all the obstacles that come in. What I bringing it back to Deaf Kids Code, what an amazing platform that you have built that is enabling your son would have been great no matter what, but you did it for a lot of other kids. He would have been great because you would have worked with him.
Smoke:But instead of just working with your son and going inside and saying, just going help protect him, you said, let's do this for the community. So tell everyone a little bit about that as we share these wisdoms because I could I love that quote, and I wanna talk about, you know, higher power and spirituality, but I also wanna make sure that people understand what you put together, and you've done it on your own. You've done it on a shoestring. Maybe you've recruited some other moms or something, but like tell us that. Give us a little insight.
Shireen:Oh my gosh, yeah. So let's get into the truth of what the grassroots organization lived experience is. So there's nothing pretty or glamorous about it. You know, yes, shoestring budget. You know, so imagine, founded the organization in 2015 And I'm not someone that comes from high net worth that, oh we have a family foundation that we can just you know, it was really the idea that well as long as I have gas in my tank and I have, you know, I can stand on my feet and I have, you know, air in my lungs that I can democratize access to this information.
Shireen:That I can use these tools as a vehicle to create a new level of consciousness and belief system within this space. And for two years, you know, it was largely self funded which means that I was a volunteer. The tools that I used were donated and that was how the first two years of the organization really functioned. And there was a mother on LinkedIn that was very conscious and sensitive to what I was doing and reached out and said that, you know, I want to know like who is supporting this work and I said, well nobody is supporting this work. And she goes, well have you asked?
Shireen:And I said, have certainly asked and you know the answer's you know always been the same and so yeah. But I'm continuing on and she was able to get our first corporate grant, which till this day is the reason we're still alive. And these are the lessons and the challenges because I believe this work is incredible work. It has transformed the way schools do things, it has transformed the way educators think about their own lives and what, you know, the broader participation that their students can have. It has impacted higher learning institutions.
Shireen:It has impacted companies and industries, the way they recruit or the way they present information. It is so many things. And yet
Smoke:How many kids have gone through it to date?
Shireen:At this point, we are over 17,000 students.
Smoke:17 thousand?
Shireen:Over 17,000 students in over 65 locations across the country and in parts of the world. I mean, it is crazy.
Smoke:That's amazing. So how do you have so many locations? Is because you've built content that can be utilized in a classroom or in some kind of situation? Is that how it works?
Shireen:So number one, all of our programming is free, no cost.
Smoke:Okay.
Shireen:So the first principle for Deaf Kids Code is that the digital age is the great equalizer. That's the first principle. And then the values are not for sale, meaning that I'm very sensitive to what type of like we've been offered by companies that, hey, like if you use our product, then you can get a kickback. I just don't want our population being used or tokenized or just being pimped out to make a company look good. Protect the integrity.
Shireen:But number two is the capacity for greatness. So I want people to align with that belief system, Not sympathy, not boo hoo, oh, I feel so sad. I want people to look at it as a meaningful investment that this is worth investing in because I want to benefit from that talent pool. I want them to reach their highest potential because that is immeasurable. You know, not relying on disability and social security payments for the rest of their lives, but rather being a meaningful contributor economically to our world.
Shireen:And the third one is, you know, zero barrier to access. We could figure out a way of selling it, but it just seems wrong.
Smoke:Well, mean, maybe there's a, I mean, may have already done this but maybe there's a, I mean, there obviously there's a cost to serve and maybe there's a way to create the ability for companies and foundations and individuals to sponsor a number of kids that help extend it, right? There's a per unit cost that can be sponsored to help you reach more people. Is that something you would consider?
Shireen:It would be something we would consider, but I think the direction we're really heading, which is especially now in this economic climate, is sponsoring students to have internship and shadowing opportunities. That is actually where we really are in dire straits because this is where the greatest challenge I'm finding is.
Smoke:A very large portion of my friend group are CEOs and run companies and I can totally see the first resistance would be, Well, yeah, I'd love to help, but how do we even deal with them? What do we have to do? Is there tools that you guys have developed that help these students get on ramped so that the company has a way to help them, right? Like they're not running into something they're not capable of doing, which would be probably one of the first objections.
Shireen:Yeah, I mean, so this is the most common question we get. And what we have done is teen and tech days, where we bring a group of students into a real world work environment, for example, and they'll have an immersive day. Like we did something with UiPath, a major global automation software company, and they learned about different job titles, they learned about skill sets, they learned about what certifications are of greatest benefit to their ecosystem, as well as that they actually learned to create an automated bot using their software. And they did all of that in one day And the feedback was remarkable because now you have a company that now can say that, wow, we actually did have experience with these types of students. But it's not even just that.
Shireen:We're also broadening and expanding our community, you know, to students with cerebral palsy and other layers of the disability space that may not necessarily be only deaf. And.
Smoke:Yeah, so so the under the under the understanding that which I'm just going to say in my words to see if I'm check me if I'm if I'm thinking about this but just as your your son had his own brilliance but couldn't understand some of the words you were saying and someone with maybe cerebral palsy or some other thing has no control over some of their motor skills but their brain is intact. There are there are ways in which to tap into that untapped potential and unleash it. Right? It it just because you have one thing doesn't mean you have the other. In some cases, I bet that the deaf community has less distractions in some ways than, like, the kids who can hear everything and, like, are going squirrel every every which way and and maybe they can focus more.
Smoke:I don't know. Is that is that a a thing?
Shireen:Well, that is a virtue for sure. But I would also say that if we had had this conversation even twenty years ago, I might not have been so emboldened at this step. But because of so much accessibility technology advancements that have occurred, like live integrated captioning, alt text that serve the blind and low vision community, and now you have even keyboards that are for, you know, people whose motor skills may not be, you know, fully optimal but can still function on a keyboard. So the world has changed now. Like if we had if you had pushed back on that twenty five years ago, I would have said yes.
Shireen:Like where do we even begin? Like everything is so inaccessible. But now, now you know where we are, it's like a new world order. I just had a conversation at a dinner with a colleague of mine. He's a faculty at a prestigious four year institution and does things in the robotics space.
Shireen:And there was a candidate looking for a postdoc position and he said like, oh and you know he was blind and we didn't realize that until he showed up and he said you know now of course you know being outside of the disability community you have all these preconceived notions of what disability is you know, and he's being very honest off the record in telling me that, you know, I really I was like, okay, what is this going to turn out to be? And he goes, but oh my gosh, he was going through every single slide with the utmost detail. It was like a 30 slide deck, he said. And he knew each and every, even if he needed to go back to certain slides, like the memorization was so and the kind of research body that this individual had, like Smoke Wallin smoked out the competition that they, you know, that they without a doubt they gave him the offer, but he went with another institution. So he was someone in the position to say no, though he thought, oh my gosh, like we've got to grab this talent.
Shireen:But I'll tell you that being in the world that I've been in, this is not actually the exception. I have come across the most mind blowing talent, talented individuals, like mind blowing talented individuals. And you know, and that's why these conversations are so important because the first thought when you hear the word disability is a knee jerk reaction to barriers. And this couldn't be more misguided. It absolutely like, I mean, of course, thanks to social media and stuff and you have so many more prominent voices that are pushing back and showing the greatness high levels of potential, we still have a reckoning with this, you know, that we have to deal with.
Shireen:You're talking about your son who is a full functioning member of society. You know, he's got a, you know, incredible life and so much yet to be revealed in his life. Of course, that baby, you know, with the disfigured eye and the idea of vision loss and all of these things, you know, I'm sure were very debilitating at times for you as a parent and just completely fearful. And then, you know, and then you see into the future and it's at where he is now. And if you tell the parent that you were then like, hey, smoke, relax, this kid is going to
Smoke:To our credit, I mean, we treated him like just another kid and I was like, there's nothing different about this kid than anyone else. We just want you to wear your goggles. And and and so and it shows. It shows because we didn't he wasn't coddled. He was always, you know, doing stuff.
Smoke:And and he's a he's a great great great guy now, a great human and all that. So alright. You you got so much wisdom that you have shared just in this little conversation. And this is I this is why we we hit it off so well in our first conversation. And I was inspired by not not just what you built, but just you as a person and the the passion you have for giving back and helping all these kids.
Smoke:Your kids now, he's on his way. He's doing well, but you're still at it. You're still cranking away and and thinking about the future and how you can serve more people, and that's you're doing God's work. I mean, that is that is, you know, whatever you view as divinity, whatever you view as, you know, giving back to Neoverse. We were talking about this before we started recording and, you know, you get you get back what you put out.
Shireen:I think the most difficult thing for me is that why society has not met us where we're at. How many more years do I have to do this to prove the case that this is worth investing in? Like all the things being revealed with USAID and all the waste and how NGO
Smoke:Unbelievable amount. Not just waste, theft. Pure theft.
Shireen:Oh, it's pure thievery. Pure thievery.
Smoke:Yeah.
Shireen:I mean, it is it is it explains a lot of like why, I mean, you have to understand that like, I have a very high threshold for rejection.
Smoke:I do understand that.
Shireen:You cannot, maybe you can't, that's another podcast. But, you know, you have to have and that's why I was using that quote, the unconquerable soul because, you know, it is unbelievable, like your tolerance for rejection, unbelievable amounts of rejection for like STEM grants. I cannot tell you how many STEM grants we get rejected. And that explains why we have remained at a five digit operating budget. So to your audience members listening, what would be considered millions of dollars worth of work and labor have been done on a five digit operating budget?
Smoke:Well, first of all, I'm going to go on the record here and say that this that last year was the last year of that. We're gonna figure out we're gonna get we're gonna get your budget up up there. We I I I have a high degree of comfort that we're gonna be able to move the needle here. This is not a fundraising show, but I I I can assure you that, like, just getting the story out, honestly, Shereen, I think I didn't know any of this. I don't know why I would have, but I didn't.
Smoke:I heard about it, I'm like, this is amazing. Word needs to get out.' And I'm going to a dinner, it's a Cornell Tech dinner in Silicon Valley at one of the alumni's house. Usually go up there and meet some of my friends up there and they're all techie, Silicon Valley you know, super successful people. Either they're venture capital or they're running tech companies. And, like, I'm gonna bring this up at our dinner because we get to bring up one thing, you know, we're working on.
Smoke:And I'm because I'm gonna bring up deaf kids code and say, hey. I I I found this. Is this something we could get you guys involved with? And Silicon Valley, I mean, what better place than there to put a flag down and say, you know, get in get behind deaf kids code?
Shireen:Well, from your mouth to God's ears.
Smoke:So
Shireen:I mean, I and, you know, and every year it's just this sword hanging on my head that is this going to be the last year? Like if we
Smoke:Yeah, so we need to figure out a way to make it because what you've done is such a beautiful thing and it needs to be sustainable and independent of any one person, right? Needs to be able to keep on its own. So, alright. So, we'll we'll work on that. That'll be a that'll be an offline conversation.
Smoke:What when you had your darkest times, your when you thought things are just never gonna be able to make this work, I mean, you're obviously a person that never gives up, but, you know, where do you go spiritually? You know, is there is there a do you have a belief system? Any any experiences asking for help from a higher power? Anything else that you could share?
Shireen:Well, I definitely pray to myself and I find myself praying harder when good things happen. And it's not like good things, like, you know, it can just be anything. Like if I get a wonderful email saying that this was life changing, I pray.
Smoke:Yeah, it's like that's really a prayer of gratitude, isn't it?
Shireen:And I find myself praying more when good things come my way, you know, and to me that is where I find myself leaning even deeper into my faith of God. Know, my belief system is not really institutionally based. Like, believe that when we, you know, end this human experience, we're all going in the same ecosystem. I believe that we were all created from the same, you know, from earth to earth, ashes to ashes. It just it's, I don't My philosophy is that any message from anybody that is a message that is divisive, that there is an us versus them, is automatically on the rejection table.
Shireen:It's already rejected. Rather it's through a priest, it's through an imam, it's through a rabbi, it's through a swami, or through anybody. There was an Us versus them, I automatically rejected because that automatically puts you in a position of ego. And I don't believe that the human experience is weighted on anything that is ego. None of us are above anything.
Shireen:And you know, and no religion and no faith has ever said that if you believe in this that you know that none of your children will die. If you believe in this nothing bad will happen to you. If you believe in this you will be protected. And I just I just you know have lived long enough and I've lived in enough places in the world and I've seen enough of everything that we all know that that is fundamentally not true. And so nobody is protected from the human experience and it's going to be good, it's going to be bad, it's going to be ugly and it is, you know, but it is also undefeatable if you believe that, you know, that the human spirit has the ability to be
Smoke:unconquerable. We live in a realm where heaven and hell exist in the same place. And it's up to us which one we want to be in. It exists heaven heaven on earth exists today depending on where your mind and your heart is, no matter what your situation. You know, it it's where it's how we come at it.
Smoke:It's the it's the approach. I I totally agree with you that I I love what you said about that. And I think if you look across all religions, the religion part is where where they got off track with human ego power struggles, trying to rule people, trying to dictate the spirituality part, the the divine divinity part, the actual people that went direct to God and whatever religion it was, those all agree. Like, there's no disagreement between the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita and the Buddha and in in Islam, the Sufis and Christianity, the mystics. If you look across what those experiences are with divinity, it's all one.
Smoke:And it is exactly what you said, it's not the divisive message. We all had a role in what mission, you actually picked this. Believe it or not, you had role in deciding what your challenge was going to be. But our challenge is, how do we rise to the occasion? How do we transcend the challenges before us so that we can come to this understanding?
Smoke:So I thank you for your work in the world and and your level of consciousness, which even when you don't realize it, it's all connected, and everybody's everybody rises when one person smiles at another, does something kind for someone else, in their heart is working on behalf of others. Every time any of us do that, it helps all of all of humanity, all the world. I thank you and you probably don't hear that as often as you ought to hear it, but you get to hear it right now.
Shireen:Well, thank you. I appreciate that. That's very, I appreciate that. And the appreciation also is reciprocated to you too. You know, like, thank you for being who you are.
Shireen:And, you know, you've also bared your soul in so many ways publicly to your human experience and the adversities that you have faced. And yet you rise and you have not lost your sense of humanity and all of these things. I think these are all the culmination of what enlightenment is, is that there is no us and them. I think, you know, the enlightenment is actually that we're all, there is no separation, that it is a deviation from humanity the minute you believe that there is an us versus a them.
Smoke:Yeah, I think the majority of humanity in most of history has felt that separation and has felt have been in survival mode. There's so many people in it. But the more people can hear stories like yours, stories like mine, stories like the other people that we both wanna lift up and expose, the the the more people appreciate, wait a minute. I can do that too. You know, because no nothing's stopping anyone from doing what you've done, what I've done, what anyone else who's risen out of a tough situation.
Smoke:But it's just picking what matters and not giving up, right?
Shireen:I have a question for you. What have you discovered since you have made this shift of like having these conversations and you make turning this chapter of a new perspective and a new way of like going through the world and the way you interact with people?
Smoke:Yeah. So, it's really interesting. When you drop judgment, when you get to a point of complete forgiveness to everyone and everything and you have no judgment, more of the true essence of people and situations is revealed to you. So that's what my experience has been. If I come with a preconceived notion to a conversation, talking to someone, and then that's natural, right?
Smoke:That's a human nature, it's like, you have a thought, oh, this person is that, or this person is that, or you're coming with your own, your head's all in what you had for breakfast and what you're gonna have for lunch, and you're you're not present, and you just and you look at someone and you say, oh, they're that. They're this person. That's what they are, and you're judging. When you do that, you are blinded to what is the true essence and what's the what's really what is really this experience for. And what we don't know, you know, the more I the more I learn about consciousness, the more I feel like I have transcended different levels, the more I have humility for knowing that I don't know.
Smoke:I don't know a lot of things. Right? So I it's a weird it's a weird paradox. The more you know, the less you know. Right?
Smoke:The more the higher level you get, the more you recognize that you don't know. So, what I don't know is, I don't know why I'm having a specific experience. I don't know why you and I sat on a plane next to each other and and started talking when I was ready to go to sleep, and you were ready to go to sleep, or read a book or something. And and and the same thing goes with every every experience we have throughout our lives. And every moment, there's some reason that this is coming up.
Smoke:And it's our task to clear our minds and clear our judgment, clear ourselves so that we can be open to what is it that I'm supposed to be receiving. That's what I've learned the most is I get so much more out of every single conversation I have, every moment I have, and as a result, people start sharing people share things. We shared a lot of things, but I honestly people like, there's a, without me, I don't ask. I'm not asking people to tell me certain things, but I get those things and it's because I have no judgment. Really don't.
Smoke:And I'm coming at it from hopefully a very open, contemplative stance. What am I supposed to learn here? What am I supposed to do here?
Shireen:Right. Well, I'm very similar in that way that I can be at a dinner or something and I'm the one talking about real stuff versus very like superficial stuff.
Smoke:And,
Shireen:you know, and I don't, you know, and I because I don't I'm not interested in talking about purses and I'm not interested in talking about whatever. It's just so shallow and it just is not something that excites me in any way. Like that is not what I'm interested in. Especially when you're in the kind of life that I'm in that is so far removed from all of that superficialness. I find myself having bigger gaps with the people that I thought I had connections with that I quickly realized we are actually not aligned at all.
Smoke:That's another one which I didn't focus on, but I'll agree with you. What happens is things that are superficial and want to avoid serious topics. Again, not judging, they're in a different place, probably where I was for a long time, where for many years I was escaping my past and I was having fun. I'd be more like, Let's go find the coolest place to have a margarita, as opposed to 'Let's have a serious conversation.' So, I don't judge that. I lived it.
Smoke:I know it. But what happens is you vibrate at a certain level, you end up attracting and being around people who are within a similar range, people who don't resonate with that aren't gonna they're not gonna watch this show, and we're not gonna we're not necessarily gonna help them even though we don't I do believe that anybody could be helped if they wanna be, but they have to ask for help and they have to want it. And and, you know, it's it the universe is actually works perfectly. We have a perfect system where the the level of your consciousness, the level of your vibration will attract or repel depending on where you are, and it's like a cork in water or of iron filing in a magnet. You're gonna we we all go to where we're meant to be, and that's true throughout this life.
Smoke:And it's true as we go to the next realm, as you as you say. I think everybody and then, you know, you get to we all get to repeat things that we don't learn, and and we get to go to the next level if we if we I don't wanna say it's a game, but it's a little bit like that. You kinda you we get to keep learning and expanding, or we get to repeat things. And I think that's that's the situation that I see.
Shireen:That would make complete sense to so many people I know that just don't get it. It's like the learning curve, Not everybody gets it and someone will make a nasty comment about somebody. And it's just like, you know, how can you have no fear of the universe?
Smoke:Thoughts thoughts are things. Thoughts their thoughts are thought forms, and those are energetic things just like we are. And if you think it enough and hard enough, it comes true just like we were talking about earlier on.
Shireen:Yeah.
Smoke:And if you wish ill on somebody, they'll either accept it because they don't understand that they cannot accept it, and it goes into them, or they can repel it and it always goes back to you. So always, always send positive thoughts to everyone you can think of, including if you have an enemy or you think it's someone who thinks they're your enemy, give them love, send them love, and they may not accept it, but it's always going to come back to you and sometimes magnified over many times. So it's so true.
Shireen:Agreed. So true. So very true.
Smoke:Yeah.
Shireen:Yes. It's not about them, it's about who you are as a human being. It's less about the people that are not your well wishers. Although I am at a stage in my life where I I do wanna be around well wishers.
Smoke:Yeah. Well, look, nothing says, you know, I think Jesus at one point said I'm not a big scripture religious person, but said, you know, he didn't say fight evil, he said avoid it. Know? Yeah. Avoid And what is evil?
Smoke:Buddha says, you know, evil is really it's ignorance. Right? It ignorance is is what you know, it's not evil. It's like it's well, you can call it evil, but it's just it's a lack of understanding. And so I don't wanna be around ignorance.
Smoke:I don't wanna be around that. I'm not it's not my job to fight every fight there is out there of people that don't understand things. But if you want help, if you feel called to it and you're struggling with things, I'm I'm there. I'm happy to to be there and and help people understand. This is real.
Smoke:Like, there the it's all real. There's divinity. There's the energy. It's all real. And if you want help, all you have to do is ask for it.
Smoke:And it will come.
Shireen:Yeah.
Smoke:But we don't have to hang out with people who are stuck in in their little spiral.
Shireen:Right. Right. I've I've drastically lost my threshold for being in that, in those type of environments. Everybody's on their own trajectory in this life. That if you're not going to be somebody's friend then at least don't be their enemy.
Shireen:Like, okay, you don't want to be a well wisher, you don't want to be a friend, but don't like go out of your way to like cause a problem to somebody or function in that way and it's just, you know.
Smoke:And they don't, they will keep facing their own challenges until they wake up and realize that. So it's a perfect universe. It it works perfectly. So, Doreen, if you were if I were to say, alright, what is the what's the what what gives you the most energy? What gives you the most excitement if something that's coming up for you?
Smoke:Is there anything you're looking forward to or something that, like, you're like, okay, this is really cool. I can't wait to what would that be?
Shireen:I find joy in like very little things, the smallest things. Like I needed to pick up a prescription from CVS the other day and the weather was beautiful and I walked four miles to get my prescription. And it was just, to me, that was like a magnificent day. Small, things like that.
Smoke:That actually makes sense to me in a certain way because people who are like you, I think you realize that happiness and joy and peace come from within. And so when when you're in that place, whatever is going on, whether there's a storm or there's sunny skies, you're kind of in that place, and it's not there's nothing external that's gonna that's gonna say, oh, this is gonna solve it for me or make me happy. It's just like I'm kind of happy with the little things. That makes so much sense to me.
Shireen:I think for me, it's the it is such a relief that if I were to die tomorrow or if I were to die today or any time, that I can at least look back at my life and say, well, I did the best I could. I didn't waste my contribution, my ability to contribute. It wasn't wasted. I didn't sit idly by, you know.
Smoke:Well, isn't that what we all who wouldn't want to be able to say that? That's a pretty awesome thing to feel in your heart and to share with people because I think there's probably people that this would reach who are like, that makes sense to them, but they're like, Oh, well, I don't think I'm there. Well, okay. There's a way to get there. Just do what you feel in your soul that is gonna matter and don't do anything else.
Smoke:Do that.
Shireen:Because you know what? The thing is that you die, you take nothing with you.
Smoke:Well, you take your energetic footprint whatever Whatever comes with that.
Shireen:You're not taking, you know, your gold bars and your stock options. You're not taking those things with you.
Smoke:Nope. You don't get the you don't take this body. You don't take,
Shireen:No. You know, and this is people, there are people that have, you know amassed enormous amounts of success monetarily in their lives that have just been so lucky and so blessed that they don't have to worry about poofs over their head or where their next meal is coming from. You know, and you know it's a luxury to live like that but then you know but it's also like but then that also is your level of responsibility that how are you paying it forward? Are you you do you have a family foundation and did you have your own NGO so that the money stays within you versus doing something that's really impactful? Where are you really like giving back?
Shireen:I do have like a chip on my shoulder from time to time when I see that multi million dollar organizations doing one fourth of the work that we do. Maybe
Smoke:Yeah. No. Listen, that's what we ran into with the homeless and Dating T Moves. We made a point of not being critical of the homeless industrial complex, but there is one. And it's unbelievable how much money has cycled through there and how people Some of them were well intended and many of them were self serving, but the amount of people we've been able to impact with so much less money just by having the right people and the right strategy and really just focus on results is extraordinary.
Smoke:But look, you can't focus on that, but I appreciate the frustration because it is evident. You brought up the USAID. That's an easy one to get really frustrated with because it's like here we have people taking advantage of their positions in government to enrich themselves and the causes that they wanted. And it seems clear at this point that very little of that went to actually helping humans, other than self serving the people that were dishing it out, which, you know, what I'm happy is that's coming to light. To me, this is actually a cleansing.
Smoke:This is actually part of our time where to get clear on anything, the shadows and the darkness has come up, you have to face it, you have to transcend it in order to get beyond it and get to the next level and that's happening at large currently with the world and with our government. There's a chance we're going to go too far, know, if you fuck that, pendulum swing, there's so much rot that I'm willing to accept a bit of too to clear some of that out.
Shireen:I know, I know. The pressure on the system is really going to be tested. I agree with that 100%.
Smoke:And so if people wanted to get in touch with you or to get involved with Deaf Kids Code, what's the best way to do that? We'll put it into the show notes, but tell us how to help.
Shireen:We have a website, deafkidscode.org, and the organization is also on LinkedIn, and we're on Instagram. They can connect with me directly as well, which is my first name, Shireen, s h I r e e n, at deafkidsco dot org. We welcome anybody that wants to have a conversation.
Smoke:Yeah. That's awesome. And I'm gonna I'm gonna share this with as many of my techie friends who I can, people that get it, and see if we can get some other people joining the club to help Shereen do this amazing work. And thank you. Thank you.
Smoke:Thank you. I I appreciate you very much, and thanks for being a part of this and to share some of your story.
Shireen:You're welcome, and thank you so much for having me. What a blessing that our paths crossed.
Smoke:Well, more to come.