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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase and Corey Berry takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football and rodeo. With firsthand experience in two of the most punishing sports, Paul and Corey share their stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
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This is the Headrush Podcast with Paul Freys and Corey Barry.
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Welcome to the Head Rush Podcast. I'm Corey Barry and I'm with my co-host
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>> Paul Freys. And Paul Freys played in the NFL for 11 years. Yes.
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>> 11 years.
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>> 11 years. The average uh playing time expectancy I think is still about three
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and a half. Our guest might be able to tell us share share with us because I
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know he's he knows a lot of people in that arena.
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>> Hopefully you know more.
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>> I don't know. Well, just just just check the box. So,
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and I'm and I rode professional rodeo for nine years. At the Head Rush
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podcast, we talk about everything related to brain trauma, brain health,
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and wellness. We talk about traumatic brain injury, TBIS, chronic traumatic
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encphylopathy, CTE, traumatic encphylopathy syndrome, TES,
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and repeated head impacts, RHI, and repeated blast exposure, RBE. We cover
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how traumatic brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues such as
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depression, addiction, lack of executive function, memory loss, even suicide
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ideiation, as well as degenerative neurological
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issues. These symptoms can be found on the Mayo Clinic and Boston University's
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websites under symptoms of CTE. Our mantra is how to cope and find hope. We
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focus our energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through education and
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raising awareness. So Paul, we have quite the guest joining us today. I'm
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going to It's going to be horrible for someone like me because there's going to
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be two New Yorkers on this. So why don't you go ahead and tell us
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about it? Well, I was I was not allowed to say I was from New York because I was
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upstate. I was born in Elmyra. And uh our our uh
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>> Is that a song? Elra.
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>> No. Elv Yeah. Yeah. Well, our uh our guest I think was born down in the city
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or at least south of uh Elmyra. Right. So,
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>> correct.
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>> Uh Mike, I smarten up. I moved my family to New Hampshire uh at two years old.
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So,
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>> oh,
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>> well, and the competition was less because there was only 100,000 people in
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New Hampshire and I only had to, you know, to get the NFL. There's no nobody
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no competition. So, hey, one, I'm I'm going to say your name really quick,
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Mike Dempsey. And I'm going to say that he's one of those people that um you
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look at them and you say, "It would take 10 lifetimes for me to do what he's
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done." and and he's he's still only in his 50s or 60s. So, uh
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>> well, he hasn't made it to the Great Wall of China yet.
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>> Well, I was going to ask him, "What haven't you done?" And you just spoiled
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my You're a spoiler, Corey. Gosh, what haven't you done? And he we were talking
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earlier and Mike said he's not walked on the Great Wall of China. But Mike,
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before I read the litany of what you've done, um, you've never walked on the
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Great Wall, but what's going to happen this summer?
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>> March 15th, actually, my daughter and I are going to the Great Wall of China.
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We're going to Shanghai, Beijing, and Seoul. And uh, that was a bucket list.
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I've done every continent except for Antarctica. So, uh, did Japan with my
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daughter and I said, I got to do China. And now she my daughter's getting me to
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Korea. But we'll have the Great Wall of China. I'll have a picture in a few
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months. I'm excited.
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>> That's awesome. Now, I went to Japan twice. One once in a senior All-Star
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game and once to play uh it was when I was with the Packers in a preseason. We
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played Kansas City. Um I would go back to uh Tokyo in a second. I really
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enjoyed that. What did you What was your experience in Japan?
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>> Very little English speaking going on there. So, let's just say I don't know
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how Google translator works and I talk fast as a Brooklyn knight. So, when I
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talk funny,
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>> yeah, the accent um just asking directions and just uh a lot of uh
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interesting uh moments happened. I was with my older daughter and uh yeah,
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getting around Tokyo. We did Tokyo Disney, but the other stuff was a
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challenge because of the language issues, asking directions or subway, all
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that kind of stuff,
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>> right? Yeah, we had some quite a quite a time there. But I love Tokyo. The food,
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great food, great culture, but need a little more Brooklyn there. That's what
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I'm thinking. You know,
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>> just like a New Yorker. How can you say more Brooklyn
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in Japanese?
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>> Them guys. I mean, they're like you.
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>> Oh, no. No, no,
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>> no. We got to We don't know what side of the family he's on, so let's let's calm
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down. Or
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>> the anti-gumba side. Hey, really quick again. I'm going to start reading your
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your background really quick. Were you a Giants or a Jets fan?
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>> I grew up a Jets fan, man. You'll love me for that. I was I'm still a diehard
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Jet fan, but I don't think I'll see a Super Bowl in my lifetime.
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>> I hope we do. I hope we do. I mean,
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>> so let me ask a question.
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>> Yeah. Do you remember Paul Fras playing?
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>> Of course I did. I mean, Buzzy Walkers, we my best friends. I mean, the 80s Jets
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were in the 90s. I mean, I watched uh all those games and uh Dennis Bird I got
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to know pretty well and I'm still in touch with his wife, Angela. Um, no, I'm
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a I'm a diehard. I mean, one of my favorite teams was the 85 Bears. I got
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to do have to confess that
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>> McMahon's one of my best buddies. And that 85 Bears team just was incredible.
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But overall, I'm I'm still a Jet fan. Always a die hard Jet fan.
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>> I just wanted to make sure that someone actually knew a defensive he's being
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kind. He's being kind. I I play I I did start about 49 games while while I was
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with No, I don't know 45 with while I was with the Jets and I had a lot of fun
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and the fans were awesome. You you poor people. Oh my gosh. Every year you'd get
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excited and we'd get excited and then we'd suck and you h it was just it was
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tough and sorry.
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>> Well, you missed the banter with Bernie Kar one of my dear friends and every
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time around Bernie I'd Joe Name's golf outing and he had to bring up 1986
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but Yeah. Third and for third and 18 or what
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what was it?
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>> Yeah. It was that roughing the passer Gastono that uh and Bernie obviously you
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know you know the Browns uh made it to but then they they got their heart got
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broken by John Elway. So it it just happens. Browns fans have liked Jet
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fans. They've uh suffered and suffered and suffered and we keep suffering. So,
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>> you know, when it comes to gas, the only thing I think about now is that video
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>> when he's in his 50s and he goes to Brett far, I want my sack back.
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>> Yeah, that was tough. That was tough. That was tough. I I I I truly think he
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should have gotten into wrestling. He could have been uh Hulk Hogan's arch
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nemesis instead of the boxing. But anyway, that's
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>> that's what Yeah, exactly.
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>> Shortlived wrestling career, too. So, I can relate that. Uh when I left I was in
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Tampa and uh they were like, "Oh, you make a good wrestler. You're good on the
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uh but I had the mic skills, but I didn't have the physical skills to take
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back bumps and uh all the crazy stuff those guys do." So that was a week and a
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half at the WCW power plant after the NFL. And uh I failed it. Wrestling is
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not fake, you know. I don't care what they say choreographed. The the the
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stuff I went through that week was pretty ser feeling it today. So,
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>> well, I'm going to I'm going to attempt to do you justice. It's not going to
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happen, but we're going to we're going to talk for the next 52 minutes, okay?
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And if you're uh if you will grace us with your presence, but uh the word
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resiliency defines the journey of Mike Dempsey. Uh Mike Dempsey was born and
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raised in Brooklyn, New York. And uh look, New York, Flatbush, Kensington. He
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he attended uh Midwood High School. and he went to the University of uh New York
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at Albany. He played football. He played ba baseball. You played two sports at at
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in college or
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>> I did. You know, in high school, they didn't let me play the two sports. I'll
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tell you what was uh baseball was my first love. Um and I'll get to the
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Yankee stuff after we talk football. Um, I was better athlete in baseball and did
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didn't get to play in high school because the coach only allowed us to
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play one sport and uh in college uh when I got up to Albany actually my freshman
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year played both I played uh third base all the way through my junior year then
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uh labor and tear and that was the end of my uh I couldn't throw from third
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base to first base and uh stay with football probably smarter move but I
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think I would have gone further in baseball but
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>> you look back and you say who knows you Everything is a matter of timing and
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opportunity, right? So an opportunity knocks you got to be there. So
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>> that labreum is one of the hardest tendons or le is it a tendon or a
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ligament? Whatever it is, it's one of the hard hardest parts in the body to
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fix. I think
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>> you can only imagine throwing from third base and I was throwing to first and I
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always made that I had a gun of an arm and then all of a sudden the ball was
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sailing left right into the stands. So
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>> Oh god.
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>> Yeah. It was uh you know it was like a rainbow when I had to throw the ball. I
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had to throw it on his arc and then obviously anybody who had uh some decent
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speed could beat me out. So yeah, it was the uh but I got to play baseball. We'll
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get to that later, you know, into 40s and
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>> got to live the dream. Uh put on the Yankee uniform.
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>> Well, you Oh, did you? Oh, wow. Okay. Well, we got to hear that. So, we got
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>> We got a real Paul back in. Exactly. Let's get this by football, baseball,
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and you box as amateur. Every You're a kid. You boxes as as an amateur, right?
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And
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>> I played good. This name Dempsey, you know, I wear it on my shirt so I don't
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forget my name, you know, when you have brain injury. I'm kidding. But uh no,
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the Dempsey, you know, but doing Jack Dempsey justice, you know, that name was
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always So, as an amateur, uh when I had graduated college, in between my ACL
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tears, I had tried amateur boxing one and three, uh wasn't that successful.
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And then we'll get to later uh in my 50 at 50 years old or so I was uh very good
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friends with a guy named Jerry Cooney. Uh he was the great hope in the early
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80s fighting Larry Holmes and we decided to do a charity boxing match Cooney and
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Dempsey and long story there but I finished the story. uh still have uh got
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got the uh impact on a couple of head impacts from um but I'm proud of the
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fact that I uh did something for a two and a half three-year journey and close
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a chapter on boxing and did incredible performance in the ring for a guy who
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was an amateur against a three-time cruiserweight champion named Richie the
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mountain la out of ever Massachusetts and Richie um was definitely a hell of
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an opponent and made me feel the pain. I'm still feeling Richie's uh body
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punches three years later.
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>> Well, uh so you actually uh you had dreams and hopes of an NFL career. Uh
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you did uh uh you did have u uh you stopped in Tampa Bay for uh a little bit
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in 959. Um yeah, and you Oh gosh, you you you
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had uh one of your fir first of two ACL reconstructive surgeries. What what what
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were those years? Was it was it back uh in 9697 or
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>> Well, Arena football was 93 with the Albony Firebirds, you know. So, I played
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football up in Albany. We're division 3 and uh because I switched schools from
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Boston University to Buru to Albany, I lost credits. Long story short, um
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graduated in summer of 93, but the Firebirds were training at our facility.
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I practice field and they had a couple guys that they lost for the season. So,
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I was an available body. Not that I was the best uh uh drafted guy, but I was an
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available middle linebacker and uh got the opportunity. I was a professional
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football player overnight at 21 years old and uh thought I was going to have
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these dreams of playing and uh have a 15 year or 11 year career like you, Paul.
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But blew out my ACL 3 weeks later. meniscus as well. Um MCL, but one of the
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worst uh that the first one was the most horrific injury when I you hear two pops
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and you know you can't even stand and you just know that and it took me about
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a year and a half or so with a cadaavver that I got to really start to feel like
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I had some stability and can still do. But by that time I had given up on a
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career. But you know we get to finding your helpers. But I was very lucky that
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through some friends, one guy notably named Lee Steinberg. Um got the
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opportunity to play with Tampa um in 1995. Uh but
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>> let's just say that didn't go as well as I had hoped because Sam Weiss was a head
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coach and God rest his soul Sam. But uh I didn't get out of training room the
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whole year. I was on the physically unable to perform list. 96 they made the
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change obviously as you know to a guy named Tony Dunie, incredible uh uh man
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that coach Dunie is and um got to be on the practice squad for the Bucks in 96.
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Um guy who I really loved was Herm Edwards out of all the we had some
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amazing coaches. Lovey Smith, all the greatest coaching guys you could ever
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Monty Gen 96 was a hall of fame year of coaches that uh Tony had accumulated but
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Herm was my guy you know and unfortunately as it got started I uh
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tore meniscus in my left knee and released in October of 96 and um then
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tried uh professional wrestling didn't go very well and had to get a corporate
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job in 1997 and that's how I got into corporate but at the same time I was
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living in Tampa and uh started to do some community
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stuff with the New York Yankees and got to be around the ballpark spring
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training and just moved from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa and although
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corporate was paying me the money, I still sports was my passion and uh got
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to work with uh a guy named Raina Gran um under Hank Steinbrunner, George Stein
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Burnerner and his son and uh did a lot of community work with Hank Shanks and
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some other organizations and started to play baseball in competitive tournaments
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and did some of those what do they call them the fantasy camps uh but mostly
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competitive tournaments to raise money for charity uh boys and girls club and
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some other organizations so got to put on the pinstripes and I will say in
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old-timers day in 2015 I got to play in a game a New York Yankees oldtimer's day
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in Scranton at the AAA complex and I got it I got up in the plate one for one uh
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I pinch it for Jean Stick Michael who was 77 years old at the time he was
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facing a guy named Jeff Nelson 6'8 uh pitcher, sidearm pitcher. Um and I got a
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hit in the old time. I'm one for one in my major league career. I think I should
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be in the Hall of Fame in Koopastown.
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>> Batting a thousand. Batting a thousand, kid.
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>> Got to do that on Father's Day in front of my children. And when you're in a
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locker room and you got Reggie Jackson, Joe Pepone, and Don Larson, all these
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Hall of Fame legends, and you're playing on a team with those guys, incredibly
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gratifying experience. Once in a lifetime. So, for one day, I felt like I
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was a major league uh baseball player, and I still don't and it's still
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unbelievable that I was able to accomplish that. But as the years go by,
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you know, I'm like grateful that I had that opportunity.
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>> Cory, that's like you going to the San Francisco 49ers and then them having you
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put a jersey on and and play for a day. So, you know, New Yorkers and Yankees.
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No. Well, B back then
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>> you put a a 49er jersey on me
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>> now.
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>> No, even back then. And I mean back in my time, you're talking Montana, Rice,
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Craig. I mean, Jesus Christ. They say, "Hey, you want to put on a jersey and go
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get hit by these guys?" I'd say,
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>> "All right." Right. So, Mike did this uh along with completing an executive NBA
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in finance at No Nova Southeastern University with a 3.97
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GPA. That possum kumlad.
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>> I cheated. I cheated. I'm kidding.
16:57
>> I cheated.
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>> It was actually I got to admit it was a group like you know it was funny. Now
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kids have their phones and my daughters they all do this thing. They go on
17:06
Google and they get the answers. Well back then I was working at Solomon
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Brothers as a Wall Street firm and they had this executive MBA program. They
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flew the professors to us was free and prepaid tuition and all of us honestly
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collaborated on our coursework. So best GPA I ever had in my whole life. So I
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left on top because uh undergrad I think I was maybe a 28 276. So I was never a
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great student. So I finished at the peak and that's why I never will do any
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school work or course work. After I got that I said no I won't do anything in
17:38
the classroom because I finished on that good note. So uh
17:42
>> that's that's unbelievable. So yeah this this is this is a great little
17:47
introduction. It just keeps going on and on. If you've been told it's all in your
17:50
head, but deep down you know something is wrong. Listen closely. Brain fog,
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18:34
weakness, is holding you back. You're not broken, you're unbalanced,
18:40
and balance can be restored. This is uh one that I know uh Mike has talked about
18:48
um a tragedy that he was involved with. Uh that we all remember very well. Uh
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Mike was actually involved with the um the uh September 11th, 2001 in New York.
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>> Your credit was first Boston at the time. So originally the irony of the
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story about resiliency and talking about that was um I relocated back to New York
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with Smith Barney after he took over Solomon Brothers and then I was working
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for Payne Weber after that and I got this opportunity to work for Caner
19:20
Fitzgerald and you know their story on 911 they lost their employees at the
19:23
World Trade Center and I had this other opportunity to work for Credit Swiss
19:26
First Boston in the World Trade Center but working at five World Trade Center.
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Caner would have had me on the 101st floor in tower one and I wouldn't be
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here talking to you guys. We know what happened on that morning. So, um,
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Canerald I've done work with for I've been part of the Caner family for 24 and
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a half years, but I never worked for them. And I'll get to that later. It's
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amazing and like they become part of a family that you really weren't. Um, but
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I've done all this charity work for them for the last 24 and a half years out of
19:53
Promise Survivor Guilt because everybody up there died that morning. But my story
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was uh I was working for Credit Swiss. My wife worked for Marsh Mlennon
20:02
um and they were on tower 100th floor but she was late to work. I didn't know
20:06
that. We had new cell phones at the time when this is when cell phones were just
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coming out and didn't really communicate or text and um I was there in the
20:14
building when the first plane hit. Heard the full had felt the full impact. Five
20:18
was connected to one. It was ninestory building and actually I think the engine
20:22
of the first plane landed in our building. I didn't know that. I just
20:26
know from Wikipedia it'll tell you that. Um but uh we evacuated pretty quickly
20:31
everybody in our building but I went into one world trade center to look to
20:35
find my wife. Of course they wouldn't let uh me up there and when I got down I
20:40
didn't know a plane hit the building. So people always ask me what you know I
20:43
didn't hear all I could hear was the sound uh we didn't have TVs in the World
20:48
Trade Center to watch what was going on or NBC News and Matt Lowauour. ended up
20:53
in the going to the World Trade Center in the mall through the courtyard where
20:56
they were going to have a concert that night and the World Trade Center Tuesday
21:00
nights were concerts and I heard the impact of people jumping because you
21:03
could hear the bam boom you know the noises but still did not know what was
21:07
really happening in real time as I got into uh World Trade Center Tower 1 at
21:12
like about 9:00 um again trying to get up to see my wife and they wouldn't let
21:16
me. So, I went outside by actually the other side of the building near closer
21:20
to two World Trade Center by a record store named Sam Goody to use my phone uh
21:25
to get a signal. So, I couldn't get a signal and it was 9:03 at that point and
21:30
the second plane was barreling right over the bankers trust building and I
21:34
was right under it and don't remember anything that was uh I was knocked out.
21:38
I was knocked face forward so I hit this part of the head. Um and I don't
21:43
remember anything till I woke up by um in City Hall Park which was about three
21:48
blocks away. So pictures somebody would have had to lift a 230 lb guy um whether
21:54
it was a civilian or a policeman or a fire department. Who knows? Oh, I don't
21:59
remember anything for that 30-minute period. I remember barely getting into
22:03
Beakman NYU downtown hospital. Uh forget what they call it now, but I was just
22:07
visited there recently. It's still there uh by Gold Street but near the Brooklyn
22:11
Bridge and that's where I was in a triage outdoors when uh um obviously you
22:18
know I had a fractured skull internal bleeding. Did not know I had a fractured
22:21
skull. I did know I had a hard Irish head hard Irish head absorbed. Um but
22:26
you know that morning was just a lot of stuff going on. Didn't know what was
22:31
happening. what it was terrorism or I did do remember somebody saying oh a
22:36
third plane is coming thinking like what what third plane where was the first two
22:40
planes I didn't understand any of that um so even though I did see the second
22:46
plane hit into the building I didn't remember that by the time I got to the
22:49
hospital again when you have a car head injury you don't remember things that
22:54
you should right um but I do remember the uh when Tower 2 collapsed first um
23:01
that debris cloud came toward the Brooklyn Bridge uh where the other uh
23:05
tower one when it collapsed I think went a different direction.
23:09
So I do remember being outdoors and I remember the debris cloud when just
23:14
heard the the noise and that in within minutes as I was in this outdoor triage
23:19
at uh Beakman um got in my eyes and I was I couldn't see for about 5 10
23:26
minutes. Uh thought I was blinded. Thought it was a nuclear holocaust is
23:30
what I thought it was. You know you remember those movies when we were
23:32
growing up the day after movie and thinking oh my god the world is over.
23:37
didn't even even know. Um, and I just remember that day my wife and I didn't
23:41
speak or see speak to each other or see each other till 6:00 pm when they
23:45
transferred me to Long Island. I thought she died and she thought I died. She
23:49
couldn't get a hold of me. I couldn't get a hold of her. So, it was one of
23:51
those like 10 hours where I gave her a number to the detective and the or the
23:55
police whatever guy at the hospital and it was a World Trade Center phone
23:59
number. So, obviously they weren't going to reach her. I'm not thinking the World
24:02
Trade Center collapsed but uh we couldn't get a hold of each other. She
24:06
tried me at St. Vincent's I wasn't there. there. I was at the downtown
24:09
hospital and uh they transferred me to Mercy Medical in Rockville Center and I
24:13
was there for three, four more days, but that was the first real serious I mean
24:18
had concussions, you know, prior to that. I would say cuz I played middle
24:21
linebacker and I was one of those guys that speared, you know, I probably had
24:26
four or five, you know, when I was at Boston University CTE uh center, they go
24:31
through how many concussions have you had in your lifetime? And I had to go
24:34
back from being a little kid even at baseball when I got beaned in the head.
24:39
Um that was a concussion. I was knocked out. Anytime you get knocked out like
24:43
when we called what we called uh back then and concussions now are different
24:47
in the terminology. Back when we were younger we were called stingers. Like we
24:51
were just uh call it concussion. But now you're like man I think we got up to 19
24:56
is where I think I don't want to get to 20. So I said 19. I want to fall under
25:00
that 20 number. But um yeah, definitely 911 was the biggest impact injury to my
25:06
to my brain. And I would say, you know, after that I I more had the mental
25:10
health challenges of PTSD and all the other stuff that went along with it. And
25:15
uh so, you know, I'm doing all the stuff, the baseball, uh all the stuff
25:19
with the Yankees and continuing sports and playing flag football for the with
25:24
the NFL alumni. I'm doing all the boxing, which we can get a little more
25:27
into the boxing saga. Um, and then you know it was a flag football injury. Two
25:33
uh two years ago, July of 2023, NFL alumni were sponsoring flag football in
25:39
Auckland, New Zealand. And uh me being over in Sydney with my daughter, I said,
25:43
"Let me get a free trip to Auckland, check out New Zealand." And uh um should
25:49
have coached, but you know uh you know, part Irish. I decided to play and um
25:56
caught an interception and got pushed into a metal bench on the sideline.
26:00
>> Knocked out for maybe under 30 seconds. Thought nothing of it. I re This is
26:05
we'll get to the stuff about medical treatment getting it right away. I
26:09
didn't I kind of refused being treated at a hospital there because you know
26:12
when you're in New Zealand, your medical insurance doesn't cover that. You don't
26:16
know what your bill is going to be. So I kind of downplayed the injury as much as
26:20
I could. So, cuz we were flying out the next day, Oakuckland to LAX, LAX to
26:25
Denver, Denver to Raleigh. So, remember that trip and uh be honest, the Oakland
26:31
to LAX trip was I didn't really feel anything that bad with my daughter. Um,
26:36
and then it was the LA to Denver trip, which is like less than an hour, 45
26:41
minutes, where I started getting a little bit of that nausea, thinking,
26:45
okay, a little jet lag or whatever. Um, it was the flight back from Denver to
26:50
Raleigh where I started to really feel something was changed. Uh, where I was
26:55
very sick and not feeling good. Uh, and then by the time I got home a couple
27:00
days later, started having that what we call the brain fog. And the vertigo was
27:05
the scariest because you know when you get that when you're driving and you get
27:08
vertigo, that's when
27:10
>> that's ended up getting vertigo in the shower. Like I would get in shower, you
27:13
you put your head up and you all of a sudden the thing starts spinning or if
27:16
you're laying down in your bed, that's scary. But when you're driving and you
27:19
get vertigo, it's even scarier because you can lose control of your vehicle
27:23
like I did. Um and then sleeping became uh hard. You know, I had chronic
27:27
fatigue, but I couldn't sleep. And um thanks for Chris Ninsky uh the CLF
27:34
hotline. Uh Chris I known for many years through Grit Iron Grapes. I do a lot
27:39
with coasted because grid iron great assistance fund and then I'm on the
27:43
other side where I'm helping an organization and now I'm the one who
27:46
needs help and I'm like going to grit iron great and Chris and uh the hotline
27:50
hook me up with the neurologist in Duke who was able to see me pretty quickly
27:55
and tell me that I'm not crazy that I have some pretty serious issues. So I
28:00
was very lucky to have the benefit of having uh my helpers who were able to
28:06
Wesley Walker Paul your one of your teammates um calling him during that
28:10
time. Hey Wes man I'm I'm not feeling good. What is going on my memory and you
28:15
had Brandy Winins on one of your pre prior podcast and Brandy uh when I was
28:20
leaving Duke that day when I saw Dr. Morgan Lander um I lost my car in the
28:26
lot in Duke. Uh, when I tell you that I walked around that lot for about two
28:30
hours and I was convinced and he stole my car out of a hospital parking lot.
28:35
Um, Brandy was on the phone me the whole time calming me down because I was
28:38
getting anxious. I said, "What do I do?" And uh, yeah, she was so patient. Uh,
28:44
you know, obviously you know her story with her husband Jeff and
28:47
>> kind of like my caretaker helping me through me off the cliff and I got my
28:51
found my car two plus hours later. But she was a big resource to me when I was
28:56
going through my darkest hours and that uh uh that first couple months. Um
29:02
something I would never want anybody to go through.
29:05
>> So that's I want to touch on that because um you know we actually we we
29:10
had Brandy and and Susan Cory's wife on as caregivers. Um we just
29:16
talked about the the prior episode about caregivers. Um what and you you just
29:24
mentioned you know you you know Brandy W is actually actually had to get on the
29:28
phone with you and kind of talk you off the ledge and talk you through things.
29:31
Let me ask you a question because right now you're you're talking like a New
29:35
Yorker. You're talking a mile a minute and you're you're very smart, very
29:39
intelligent. You're you got this person, you got this person, you got so you
29:44
don't seem like you have a other than maybe a little ADD, you don't seem like
29:48
you have a brain injury. So, so um and and then you all you also said about a
29:54
couple minutes ago that it was about three or four months of hell after that
30:00
last concussion. Share with share with us how you've felt what
30:10
for lack of a better word what degenerated in those times
30:14
postconussion. Oh Jesus.
30:17
Well, well, no, not well, you're already getting some things back. You're
30:21
getting, you know, so a big thing is executive function,
30:25
>> right? We all, that's a buzzword for CTE or T, you know, tees, probable CTE, you
30:30
know, we we do lose executive function. We can't do 17 things at once. I never
30:35
could. But um how you know kind of talk us through those three or four months
30:41
after the World Trade Center, one of one of the most devastating traumas
30:46
>> and head traumas. You had the the trauma in in and of itself, you know, for
30:51
people for millions of people even watching on TV. But you had the trauma
30:56
of the situation not knowing what was going on. And you you actually hit hit
31:02
your head really hard and you had repercussions of it.
31:05
>> Now hold on a second.
31:07
>> Yeah.
31:07
>> He didn't hit his head really hard. Something hit his head said head really
31:12
hard. Let's not say he hit his head. A block of concrete or whatever. I mean I
31:19
remember 911 like it was yesterday. I was in Portland, Oregon. M
31:24
>> I own my own trucking company and I was unloading up there and all of a sudden
31:32
we got notified and we go into the lunchroom and we're watching
31:39
the news going Jesus.
31:41
>> Yeah.
31:42
>> Yeah.
31:42
>> I'll never forget after that instead of getting a load I deadheaded home
31:47
>> because I didn't know what was going on. I need to get to my wife. I need to get
31:51
to my kid. and the eeriness of driving home because now there's no pl Whoa.
31:59
Sorry, Lexi.
32:00
>> There's no planes of any kind in the air or nothing like that. Sure. And it was
32:08
just eerie getting home and then I stayed home I think for 10 days.
32:13
>> But I mean,
32:15
>> and then where were you on September 11th?
32:18
>> Oh, I I was uh I was in Boston. We were we were working on the Joshua Freys
32:23
Foundation gala that we have every year up there and uh we literally were
32:27
supposed to have meetings with Jim Pilada and uh Tutor Investments. You
32:33
might you you might have known them but uh um anyway. Yeah. And then we we raced
32:39
we I I ran AC across the government center in my in my flipflops and got one
32:47
of the only remaining rental cars and and zipped up to New Hampshire and we we
32:52
we camped out for a few days at my parents house. So yeah, it was so the
32:57
the trauma of that it and that's one thing that I I I recently realized, you
33:02
know, three or four years ago that trauma doesn't have to be a bang on the
33:06
head. actually can be a divorce or loss of a child or so, you know, so on and so
33:11
forth. But talk talk about a little bit about your post uh uh trauma and how
33:18
>> well the PTSD was very interesting. So 9/11, you know, it was uh I was I call
33:23
level one impact. I was in under I saw the plane hit the building. I was
33:26
knocked out. I was directly and I never understood the people that were getting
33:31
therapy in the support groups because I went to support groups. I couldn't do
33:34
one-on-one therapy. I wasn't into that. uh go to see a therapist and all that
33:38
kind of BS. So, I was all about support groups and I would I couldn't figure out
33:42
why people that were residents of the neighborhood downtown were in these
33:46
groups. I didn't realize that they were affected by the tragedy. I think I
33:50
started to learn more about um how to deal with PTSD from the Oklahoma City
33:55
bombing community. So, they reached out to the New Yorkers and they came up to
33:59
visit us. We went down to Oklahoma City to meet with the family members, the
34:04
survivors, and I started to learn more about, you know, about all the people
34:07
that are impacted. Now, fast forward 16 years later, I'm at I'm in Las Vegas
34:12
doing the Mike Dempsey lifestyle of okay, I'm going to Cal Ripkens golf
34:16
event and uh it was in Maryland and then I'm flying to Las Vegas as a layover
34:23
weekend because I got Scott Beao's charity golf outing Chachi on Monday,
34:27
right? So, I'm in Las Vegas for the weekend.
34:30
>> Was he a Brooklyn guy?
34:32
>> He's a Brooklyn guy. Kachi. Yes. God, he lives in uh Florida. He moved from LA to
34:37
Florida a couple years ago. He's in Bradon helping his daughter as a junior
34:41
golfer. So, Scott's a good friend of mine.
34:45
>> Yeah, we all love happy dance, right? And Charles in charge. So, but that
34:50
weekend, my one of my best buddies growing up is a guy named Brett Rmer who
34:53
was on a TV show on Animal Planet called Tanked. Uh, they build aquariums for
34:57
celebrities. Although I never got a tank from Brett, but I used to help Brad get
35:01
some other celebrities and help him on the show. But I wanted to be on the show
35:04
so I could show up to my kids. Yeah, he's cool. He's on Animal Planet show.
35:08
So, we filmed a show that weekend, October 1st, 2017 weekend. I was staying
35:13
at the Mandalay Bay because that's where I always stay. I do my high school
35:17
football reunion there. Of course, we do it in Vegas, not Brooklyn, but for
35:20
obvious reasons, Vegas is much more fun than Brooklyn do uh guys weekends. So,
35:25
um, happen to be there. I don't know anything about country music. Okay. I'm
35:29
sorry, Corey. You look like you're a country music fan. I don't know anything
35:32
about I'm from Brooklyn. I know Run DMC. I know I'm a a rock Tom Petty kind of
35:38
guy who actually died on October 2nd uh that next day. And that was a tragedy
35:42
for me was losing Tom Petty. But I don't know anything about Route 91 concert.
35:47
Don't know even what the first any of the headers. I just lo lost a little bit
35:52
of respect.
35:54
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36:00
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36:08
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story isn't over. Let's begin again with your brain.
36:47
>> I see those guys every year at a charity golf outing for Cander, I'm sorry,
36:50
charity uh we do with Cander Cheryl Stuby Charity Day and I see uh Daryl
36:55
McDaniels and I I love that Run DMC old school uh uh rap music from the 80s, the
37:02
break dancing days. But no, I mean I didn't know anything about the concert
37:05
and I was actually at the hotel with with a friend at the bar at Mandandalay
37:09
Bay and all of a sudden we went outside. He could not find his way back to the
37:13
Excalibur, which is like neck down the block, but there's a tram. I don't know
37:18
the tram. So, I said, "Stevie, let's go outside." Walked to Las Vegas Boulevard.
37:22
We'll make a left. As we got outside, we heard pop pop pop thinking, "Oh, wow.
37:26
Cool fireworks, man. That's cool." Uh because it was the first night preseason
37:30
game for the hockey team, the Golden Knights. So, I thought it was a
37:33
something to do with that. And all of a sudden, we heard sniper from somebody
37:37
and we're like, "Uh, sniper where?" Like you're looking up. we could hear,
37:41
couldn't see it. Um, but all of a sudden it got real real quickly and now within
37:46
a half hour time it was a delay to for the response as you know from Las Vegas
37:50
to figure out there was a shooting going on. But um within a half hour the whole
37:55
Las Vegas was going crazy. We're in lockdown and I'm saying to myself, how
38:00
the hell did Mike Dempsey get in the middle of this one? And I was just all I
38:04
was trying to do was have a nice relaxing weekend in Vegas before seeing
38:09
Chachi on Monday. And uh yeah, the PTSD all the stuff I thought was buried um
38:15
you know was kind of un unraveled within one or two days. I mean that night just
38:20
completely um messed me up pro. And it was funny because I was level I call
38:24
that level three. So 911 I was level one impact, right? I was right under the
38:28
World Trade Center plane getting hit. This was level three. I wasn't at the
38:33
concert. I can't call myself really a survivor of Las Vegas is I wasn't shot
38:37
at at the uh so I kind of felt like I didn't identify in that community, but
38:41
tell you what, I had a lot of issues recovering from that months later just
38:45
where you get that um PTSD or just uh anxiety. You know, I can't go to a
38:50
concerts really anymore because I'm always looking around and you think
38:54
something's going to happen. So I started to realize the impact of people
38:57
within the tragedy when you're either in the middle of it or even observer to it
39:02
and it can really change your life forever. So Oklahoma City when you go
39:05
down there to the memorial it says something about where we're here to
39:09
honor those who we lost, those who survived and those who were changed
39:13
forever. And that last part changed forever means could have been somebody
39:16
blocks away, could have been residents, could have been people that were
39:20
peripheral to the tragedy but still were impacted for the rest of their lives. So
39:24
that was kind of the um first part. The mental health part was really So you
39:29
layer on the concussion stuff that I went through two and a half years ago
39:32
and you start remembering I have underlying obviously PTSD and anxiety
39:37
disorder. Now you put that in combination with the stuff that I'm
39:41
going through with brain fog and um short-term memory loss where I lost my
39:46
car. I couldn't find my car. I lost my car keys. I mean, I did everything you
39:50
could imagine where I just did and I still have I still struggle short-term
39:54
memory. When I play golf, you would you would uh you'd see in minutes how I tell
39:58
everybody I play golf with, uh, I will not be able to remember where my ball
40:02
was hit in 20 30 seconds. That's that's just the Mike Dempsey thing. They know
40:06
that. I always tell my teams to get some awareness that I need some help. I need
40:10
uh I don't usually have caddies in golf outings, but I kind of need the team
40:14
members to be a little bit of that caddy to help me find my ball. Otherwise, I'm
40:18
going to forget in 20 30 seconds. So, uh, but you know, the sleep issues I
40:22
think were first after the last concussion, the hardest. When you can't
40:27
sleep, if you read the report I sent you from my doctor, that was my biggest
40:31
issue was when you're not sleeping properly, not getting rest, your
40:36
executive functioning is nothing. So, I had uh three or four months of hell. I
40:40
started to see the light in uh 2024 when I started seeing a brain doctor
40:47
named Dr. Robert Bareric who's got this my brain doctor in Raleigh and he
40:51
started to do something called neuro feedback therapy and I didn't hear what
40:55
is neuro feedback bio feedback and they put these sensors to your brain and you
41:00
watch I watched Seinfeld you laugh I watched that Seinfeld episode my problem
41:04
was I couldn't watch TV um I couldn't get through 15 20 minutes without having
41:09
that um blacking out or ADD or whatever I had shortterm tension couldn't read
41:16
couldn't read really on my phone, even read like a a website, anything like
41:22
that. I was having a lot of problems staying focused. So, neuro feedback was
41:25
designed to really rechrogram my brain. And I've done it for about a year and
41:32
almost two years now. And I'm at the point where I can get through a half
41:36
hour episode without really having um Can I get through an hour? Probably not.
41:41
My goal is to get to be able to watch Law and Order. That's my wife's favorite
41:45
show. I would like to be able to watch Law and Order for an hour and stay
41:49
focused. I can't watch a 2-hour movie. Even the movie um that I was watching
41:54
this morning, documentary, Quiet Explosions, I've had to go turn it on,
41:58
turn it off again, watch 10 minutes at a time. I'm still building up, but neuro
42:02
feedback has helped me quite a bit with having um helping my attention span and
42:07
being able to stay focused. Now, the difference between Mike Dempsey after
42:10
the concussion is that I would have a conversation with you and I would take
42:15
you on a I forget where I started. I would go in circles and kind of like my
42:20
dad does that is uh it was a total Alzheimer's kind of uh discussion where
42:24
I would kind of forget where I started and uh where now I think you know you
42:29
can kind of follow along better with where I'm going in a story where two
42:35
years ago. So, it's a progression. Will I ever be Mike Dempsey from before the
42:38
concussion? I might not be. And he told me that. He said, Dr. Barrett said,
42:41
Mike, we can't reverse the damage that's been done to your brain. And you know,
42:45
when you look at the report from Boston University, obviously where I am on CT
42:49
level three or level four, I know I'm pretty high up there. I'm like their
42:54
famous guinea pig when I did this the hope research study there. Um, but I can
42:59
function and Wesley Walker functions. Paul, a lot of your teammates that have
43:03
uh you talk about Mark Aston, yourself, we all function and we want to be able
43:07
to get through our day-to-day with our families and be able to cope and do the
43:11
day-to-day. And I know Cory, you've talked a lot about your history of
43:14
injuries. And you know, you may never be the same person you were before those
43:19
head injuries, but we want to be able to get back to day-to-day where I can
43:23
actually have enjoy life, go on a trip with my daughter, and will I forget
43:28
things? Absolutely. But I am improving and I'm improved version of who I was 2
43:34
and a half years ago. I don't think I'll ever be the Mike Dempsey from 20 from 10
43:38
years ago. But that's okay. And I've just learned to understand what my
43:42
limitations are. My family knows um my kids when they travel with me,
43:46
especially my younger daughters is like a caretaker um to help me go from point
43:51
A to point B. So because I do get very confused, driving has been a challenge
43:55
for me. Uh forgetting things without that GPS thing. Even with the GPS, I
44:00
still have some problems focusing on the road. So, these are things that I've
44:04
learned over the last two and a half years of having TBI that, you know,
44:08
there we can do things to improve and, you know, I'm doing this stem cell nasal
44:14
treatment. Bernie Kosar has hooked me up with this uh renewing athletes lives and
44:19
they're uh they're designed to really help hundred retired athletes with
44:23
getting regain clarity, regain focus, that brain fog that we lose doing a
44:28
simple nasal spray and we put the spray up each nostril every morning, every
44:32
evening and I do it on a regular basis and I've had some better I've had some
44:37
good days. I'm not going to say every day is good, but I've had some really
44:40
good days. And it's helped Bernie throughout his uh if you know his story
44:44
between the liver transplant, his Parkinson's. Bernie's had a 100
44:48
concussions and said, "Mike, uh we got to get you on to this. Uh I'm in the
44:53
first group of 20 retired athletes who were on this clinical trial where
44:58
they're giving us free stem cell neutromes and it's really improved uh at
45:04
least my thinking um on a day-to-day basis. Not every day is great, but most
45:09
days are better than they were before. So,
45:11
>> this episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor
45:16
and team of doctors, uh, Dr. My Meiselle Deo, and she's with the Paradise
45:23
Behavioral Health and we are in the Brain Well program, which is also part
45:28
of the Millennium Health Center. Uh, Dr. Mark Gordon. You've seen him on Joe
45:35
Rogan and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast.
45:40
Um, and the hormones. And Michelle is
45:46
awesome. We love her. She's she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works with the
45:51
Mark Gordon program with the hormones and uh and she she adds her twist of
45:57
genetics and um and it's it's it basically is melding two wonderful uh uh
46:04
mediums together and we're getting great help from Dr. Myisel Deo. So please
46:10
check out her website at paradisebehavioral.com.
46:15
>> Look up the brainwell program. Get involved. She's sponsoring us.
46:20
They're sponsoring us for the next year. So, we are excited to have them on board
46:25
and uh and and shout the new the good news to everybody uh that is watching
46:31
these broadcasts. So,
46:32
>> is she helping you, Paul?
46:34
>> Absolutely.
46:34
>> She's helping me. So, go check her out. Paradise behavioral health.com.
46:41
One thing that uh you know we talk about frequently is uh you know one modality
46:46
or one therapy might might work for you but it might not work for somebody else
46:52
and I mean obviously you you have found uh bof feedback or or neuro neuro neuro
47:00
feedback and you feel that's that's helped you tremendously. Is that is that
47:04
the case or
47:06
>> Yeah. Yeah. I didn't buy into it in the beginning. I was telling the girl
47:09
yesterday when I was at the brain doctor, I said, you know, the first
47:11
three or four weeks, I said, "Ah, it's mumbo jumbo. This is all." And then I
47:16
started looking at the brain scans and looking at the improvement um from the
47:19
time that I started doing it to where I am now. Now, I know I'm still obviously
47:24
below an average person. You know, what was scary was the neurocognitive test
47:27
that I took after I think the one I did at the Bosch University uh for the
47:32
research study. And when they tell you that you're two standard standard
47:36
deviations below your peers,
47:38
>> and I'm sitting there because I'm not a math guy. Like I don't know what that
47:41
means. I'm like, so I asked the guy, I said, "Is that good?" He goes, "No, that
47:45
is not very good." I said, "I don't know what that standard deviations like I
47:49
don't know. Did I do that in algebra? I don't even know what that really means."
47:52
He just said, "You are below." And I I said, "Okay, so that's not a good
47:59
result." And I tried my best. And um you know I tell people there was some of
48:03
those stuff in that exam. I don't think when you got to draw your stuff out of
48:05
the maze. I couldn't do that in my best days. I was one of those guys. What they
48:09
Paul what they give us back in the day. It wasn't the Wonder Lick. It was some
48:11
other um I know
48:14
>> Oh, the Wonder Wonder Lick or or Yeah. I mean they they they
48:17
>> something like that. And I was I was bad. I had one of the worst scores that
48:21
probably So I say I was probably dumb from an IQ standpoint before all this
48:26
stuff. So I just went from bad to worse. But I just never had that. I was very I
48:31
could book smart. I could memorize at the time, but when it came to like the
48:34
common sense stuff, I just never had that. I was just being honest to myself,
48:38
you know. So um you know when when you take these neurocognitive tests and you
48:42
get three uh you know tests that I had done uh Raleigh Neurology did it for me
48:48
and I did it at Duke and they did it at Boston University and all three of them
48:52
kind of said this guy's got some. So, the newer feedback, I haven't taken one
48:57
recently, but I think I would hope I would hope I'd be improved. Um, where to
49:02
where I was 2 and a half years ago.
49:04
>> Let let me let me ask let me ask a question because our therapist is
49:07
actually sitting in in the corner and uh you were talking about, you know,
49:10
therapy. I don't know about that, but but uh one one thing that um um Corey
49:17
did one modality, he did TMS and Yeah. and uh he didn't know I don't know that
49:24
he really felt I don't know I think it's working I'm not sure but
49:28
>> well I'm higher on the RTOR scale from what Mike just talked about after my car
49:35
wreck and right now I'm starting to flood a little bit
49:37
>> but after my car wreck for three months I couldn't have a light on in the house
49:44
>> I couldn't have the TV on
49:46
>> I couldn't read I couldn't sound my wife couldn't talk to me
49:53
>> and for three months and then slowly coming out of that like what you were
49:59
saying it's a struggle and I don't remember even a lot of that three months
50:06
>> right um and it's just
50:13
heart-wrenching and the anger and the suicide ideiation I remember having uh
50:22
woken up and felt the pressure of and the taste of gunpowder in my mouth
50:28
>> and the air pressure of like shooting my myself in the mouth. M
50:34
>> um and just wanting to and you know or sitting up at the house and walk down to
50:41
the round pin to my horse and get him and take him to the round pin and sit
50:46
there at midnight just going, "Dude, is this the time I just do I want to
50:52
survive tomorrow? Do I want to go through this another day?
50:56
And this is not the life because you know
51:04
us as three we live on a higher level. We're very type A, very competitive,
51:12
very driven and very goal orientated. And I lost all that.
51:20
And even now I struggle with being normal. what I call a normal life.
51:30
>> Um, and I talked to Crystal about it, but
51:35
it's And me seeing a therapist is like taboo.
51:42
>> A cowboy.
51:43
>> Yeah. Cowboy seeing a therapist, that's like
51:47
Pope walking into a bar. It just don't happen.
51:51
um you know it's
51:56
>> unless it's time for a communion. So no sorry
52:01
>> red wine only
52:02
>> right kind of
52:04
>> but um you look at it and what he is explaining is so dead on to how I feel
52:12
and I was diagnosed suspected CTE in 2016
52:19
18 19 2020 six years before my last major TBI
52:25
and my last major TBI in 2022 two broke the camel's back. I've had five or six
52:32
neurological exams. I have them every year now. And I just slowly decline,
52:38
decline, decline, decline. I don't even ask what grade anymore. All I do is look
52:44
at the report and it says below average, below average, below average. Executive
52:47
function below average, below average. And it's like, okay, I'm becoming an
52:52
idiot, but that's all right. You know, we got we got to move on from that and
52:59
not dwell on them negative aspects of these tests, but we need to know these
53:04
tests because, and I'm going to jump on you again,
53:09
Paul, you don't go take care of yourself. When was the last time you saw
53:14
a neurologist? When was this last time you got a neurological exam?
53:18
>> After my strokes, probably.
53:21
>> Right. So, I mean, you don't even know what your what is that called
53:27
baseline is anymore.
53:30
>> But I'm searching out modalities that that that will help me and have helped
53:35
me. But I I I I understand what you're talking about. But what I was getting at
53:39
with the TMS, your therapist said you've been you were taking incremental steps
53:45
of improving,
53:46
>> right?
53:47
>> Yeah. So that
53:48
>> and everybody, my therapist, my vestibular, my zel de Mayo, and my wife
53:54
has said TMS has helped me,
53:56
>> right?
53:57
>> So why haven't you looked into stuff like that?
54:00
>> Uh, I don't know. I'm just I'm too busy flying to Dallas. Then I go go back and
54:05
get a permit for a big house that I'm building on and and trying to keep the
54:09
wheels on a company and build build. With all of this and with all of this
54:14
stuff going on,
54:16
>> what's one thing Paul's not realizing?
54:19
>> Hold on a second, Mike. What is it?
54:22
>> What is it, Mike? Hold it. Quiet. What is it? What is he not realizing?
54:28
>> What is he not realizing? Okay, I'm going to
54:31
>> that I start that I'm stuttering and I'm losing ground or what? What?
54:35
>> You're You're You get off track so easy.
54:38
>> Oh, no. I'm I'm Yeah, I did, too. Right. And you're spinning all your wheels. Oh,
54:44
yeah. You're a squirrel.
54:45
>> And I'm not I'm not doing anything really efficiently, but I'm doing a lot.
54:52
>> Well, yeah. Um Okay.
54:55
>> So, maybe going and sitting for 20 minutes doing that TMS may help you.
55:00
>> It might.
55:02
>> Did it help when you sit down and talk to Crystal?
55:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. Abs. Absolutely helps. helps uh having somebody uh uh sit down and
55:11
evaluate you and and and hear hear your issues and you know how you could take a
55:16
left turn and once in a while
55:19
>> Crystal just looks at me a lot of times just said you're screwed dude deal with
55:23
it. Stop. CTE.org proudly sponsors the Head Rush podcast.
55:30
>> Karen and Doug Zagel, they are uh founders. Karen founded the Patrick
55:37
Greca CTE awareness foundation and they are one of the most comprehensive
55:45
websites regarding repeated head impacts and
55:50
chronic traumatic consephylopathy. They have they work with legislature. They
55:55
are they've been doing this for about 10 years.
55:59
>> They're the grandparents of CTE in my book. So don't knock it. stopct.org.
56:06
>> Well, the neuro Yeah, I'm I'm hearing that a little bird say the birdies say
56:10
that we have access to neuro feedback. So, I'm uh I'm I'm pleased to hear you
56:16
say, Michael, that you you had some benefits from it. So,
56:20
>> well, and yeah,
56:21
>> I don't I mean, there's so many therapies. I'll be honest, but the
56:23
challenge for brain therap for most patients, and let's be straight up about
56:27
it, is that brain doctors uh can be very expensive. When I started looking before
56:31
I met Dr. Eric, um, they will you go in for a consultation and hey, you get an
56:36
$800 I had an $800 bill from, uh, some lady in Charlotte I met at a golf outing
56:41
that I thought was just taking me for a free consultation. I get a bill for 850
56:44
and I don't even know what the hell she did for the whole hour. Um, there's a
56:48
lot of because that's not covered by insurance. As you know, a lot of brain
56:51
therapies, they don't cover. So, I was definitely um up for doing hyperbaric. I
56:56
had a guy that helped Joe Delamir from the bill bills and uh but all this stuff
57:00
is going to cost me thousands of dollars and of course some of those treatments I
57:04
was not prohibited from doing because the cost and that's what uh the one
57:08
unfortunate result of the therapies you have to find people that really are
57:10
willing to help you and I was very fortunate that Dr. Baric has helped me
57:15
um with Bernie Kosar's folks renewing athletes lives that the stem cell stuff
57:19
which cost me thousands of dollars is pro bono. Um, so I've been fortunate
57:24
that those therapies that it's funny the ones that are pro bono have been the
57:27
most helpful and I'm um I again I wish I could have done I would have done
57:32
anything that could help Mike Dempsey improve his life but within a cost
57:36
parameter of not breaking the bank of course I had to you know some things I
57:42
just could not do for myself.
57:43
>> Well and that's it. I mean, I have one of the best neurologists in the nation
57:49
with Jeremy Tanner that works right close with Ann McKe and them and I see
57:56
him every year and that's thousands of dollars.
58:00
>> Yes.
58:01
>> And he does MRIs, he does CAS scans, he does neurological exam. I mean, I'm
58:07
there for a week
58:09
>> every year.
58:09
>> That's that's insurance,
58:11
>> right? That's insurance. But you look at my Zelda de Mayo, Dr. Gordon, and TMS
58:19
was covered through insurance. You look at therapy. So, the stuff I'm doing that
58:25
insurance covers, but hopefully with the new MAGA movement and MAGA Health that
58:33
maybe the hyperbaric will start coming into play. Maybe. Um, well, Texas just
58:39
approved a $50 million study for Iba Gain.
58:44
>> Mhm.
58:44
>> The first state in America. And believe me, I'm trying to reach out
58:49
to Rick Perry and UT Health right now going, I know 90% of it's for veterans,
58:55
but hey, I want to do this because I can't afford to go spend 8,000 to go to
59:00
Mexico. Um,
59:04
and you look at all the modalities, the neuro feedback, you look at all the non
59:12
>> stuff that insurance don't cover. That's everything that helps you.
59:16
>> Yep.
59:18
>> All the supplements that we take, I spend probably $200 a month on
59:23
supplements,
59:24
>> right? Mhm.
59:26
>> That insurance would be like pregnant. Nah, you don't need that.
59:32
you know, so yeah, there needs to be more awakening, more
59:40
movement to get more modalities available for people through insurance.
59:45
I believe it's all
59:46
>> you mentioned the veterans community, Corey, too. You know, I've been very
59:49
involved with them through merging veterans with players. That's uh Nate
59:52
Boyer started that about five, six years ago. and that veteran community. God,
59:57
uh, some of the head injuries some of those guys I met have had and they we
1:00:01
started this merging veterans and players. A great movie. It's on I think
1:00:04
it's on Amazon Prime as well. talks about the whole commonality between
1:00:08
retired football players and veterans and some of the things we've experienced
1:00:12
and athletes and um getting that kind of uh learning more about what they've gone
1:00:17
through and their struggles with the BA and we've struggled with you know I'm
1:00:21
not going to talk too badly about the NFL concussion settlement and some of
1:00:23
these other but it's there's a lot of commonality there and I think you know
1:00:28
having that peer support as I mentioned with 911 Oklahoma City became my
1:00:32
brothers who would think Brooklyn New York guy uh people from Oklahoma that he
1:00:36
could help the veterans are helping the NFL guys now. Isn't that incredible? So,
1:00:40
uh, the more people that I speak to that have had great ideas on new therapies or
1:00:45
things that help them, I think that's what it's all about. Again, finding your
1:00:48
helpers. My whole life has been my resiliency is only enabled by people
1:00:52
that have helped me along from very uh beginning when I mentioned how I even
1:00:57
got the opportunities to play professional football by helpers.
1:01:00
Everything in my life has been you can call me a hustler, you call me an
1:01:03
opportunist. I call myself an opportunist.
1:01:05
>> What's
1:01:06
>> and how you build resiliency is you take those chances because you get those
1:01:09
opportunities once in a lifetime. So I'm an opportunist. Somebody gives me
1:01:13
something like, "Hey, Mike Neutrasomes has helped Bernie Kosar. Uh, take this
1:01:18
spray and see how it is." I jumped on it because you know what? I got nothing
1:01:21
else to lose.
1:01:23
>> Get us hooked up on it.
1:01:26
>> Mike, let's let's reverse that. Uh, who would have thought who would have
1:01:31
thought that an Oklahoma City guy could be helped by a Brooklyn guy, right?
1:01:36
>> That's true. Y
1:01:37
>> they could three times, you know,
1:01:39
>> they couldn't. So, let me So, let me We're up against it and unfortunately
1:01:44
that this hour has gone really fast, but I I want to hear and there's 25 uh
1:01:49
charities that you are listed in on on about on your website. Give us
1:01:56
>> go there. Let's talk about the veterans he just talked about in repeated blast
1:02:00
exposure. We had M Parkman on who's
1:02:03
>> right
1:02:04
>> a Green Beret. We've had Andrew Mah on.
1:02:07
>> Mhm.
1:02:08
>> We've had a couple veterans that are bad to the bone that
1:02:12
>> Oh yeah.
1:02:14
>> I tell you what, I wouldn't go against any of them in a dark alley.
1:02:17
>> No.
1:02:18
>> And you know what Mac Parkman say? They
1:02:22
finally acknowledge RBE as a symptom,
1:02:26
>> as a diagnosis, repeated blast exposure. But you know what? They offer
1:02:32
>> pills. Pills and maybe yoga. Ain't that what he said?
1:02:36
>> Yep. Yep. And it's like no neuro feedback, no neurosomes or what? What?
1:02:42
What? You know, it's a
1:02:44
>> Yeah. Well, you mentioned you mentioned uh you know, the Green Beret on Tech uh
1:02:48
today's birthday. Nate Ber uh played for uh Seahawks one year he was a Green
1:02:53
Beret played for Texas hook him right and uh played in the NFL and you know
1:02:58
he's definitely done a lot to really help that veteran uh community as well.
1:03:02
So, I think like I said, he'll be a another guy that's been on both sides of
1:03:06
the NFL side and also as a vet. And uh yeah, I I agree that. But back to your
1:03:11
question, Paul, about charities. Rick Grit Iron Great, Coach Ditka started
1:03:16
that to help retire players with traumatic head injuries. This was about
1:03:19
15 years ago, and I've been involved with them from the very, very beginning
1:03:23
with Coach Ditker. And uh now we have a lot of help from guys like Mike Goolick,
1:03:28
Brian Erlacer, guys like that that really continued on the mission and
1:03:32
that's really one of the ones I support the most. Obviously Super Bowl week I'll
1:03:36
be at their cigar party. But that uh that organization has really been there
1:03:41
from the very beginning. That's where I met Chris Ninsky. That's where I met
1:03:44
everybody was really through that grid iron great assistance fund and coach
1:03:49
Tidar has really uh done so much left a legacy um to really help others uh you
1:03:56
know really get help because there's a lot of our guys you mentioned Paul your
1:04:00
11-year career a lot of the guys like me are in that not for long category right
1:04:04
I didn't even make I used the average of three and a half years I thought it was
1:04:06
two now I'm really depressed I only had two um but you know you look back at the
1:04:11
privilege to play you know play the game you love. But a lot of us that played
1:04:15
the game for a short period of time. I have another guy next Jets want to
1:04:19
connect you with him. Lives in Raleigh and he's been played a couple seasons
1:04:22
like me and he's had some severe issues, mood swings a lot. His journey is
1:04:27
something that I really want to connect you guys and have him as a guest. Him
1:04:30
and his wife who's been his caretaker because uh his name is Jay Haggood and
1:04:35
Jay is an inspiration to me. He's really hit rock bottom and been coming back and
1:04:40
he's doing really great right now. So, a lot of us in that category and the fact
1:04:44
that not all of us had that uh Hall of Fame uh career like others, but a lot of
1:04:50
us that are sort of in that middle or lower tier were suffering. So, the fact
1:04:55
that we can help uh help others and I've been blessed to have like again those
1:04:59
helpers. If I didn't have that, I wouldn't be where I'm at right now. I
1:05:02
know that I'd be a statistic and uh you know, for my girls that are 21 and 23, I
1:05:08
want to live another 20, 30 years. Uh, but I didn't think that way two years
1:05:12
ago. I was self-medicating. Alcohol was my poison. Being Irish, you know, you
1:05:16
can tell uh um drinking became the immediate thing I had at the concussion.
1:05:21
It I drowned in alcohol at golf outings and Mark Wahbergs and a few others where
1:05:25
I got were really I don't remember I had blackouts and the blackouts from alcoh
1:05:29
alcohol are similar to blackouts I'd have. I would tell you that the the the
1:05:34
four or five months after my concussion 23 23 is really literally a blackout for
1:05:39
me. I don't remember a lot of anybody I met or hung out with or any of the
1:05:43
events. I can only look at Facebook and look at pictures and videos and kind of
1:05:47
recreate that four or five months. It's like a literally like an alcoholic
1:05:51
blackout that I had. And uh it's scary to think about like losing three or four
1:05:56
months of your life where you can only look back at pictures and you don't even
1:05:59
really remember even being there. Like how did I fly there? Did I drive there?
1:06:03
And uh that's a scary part. So, um, again, I'm looking at this like, you
1:06:07
know, who I was before, uh, these concussions and who I am now. I'm proud
1:06:11
of where I'm at now. The Rocky story, you know, having like the boxing, you
1:06:15
get knocked down, you get back up again. But, we got to keep fighting. And, you
1:06:19
know, it's up to me to now pay it forward so that others can have that uh,
1:06:23
ability because I know too many guys become statistics. We know how many
1:06:26
veterans commit suicide and we know how many um, guys who play football that
1:06:30
have uh, dark, deep uh, depression after the playing days are over. Well, we
1:06:34
we've got to end this on a word on an uptick and a word of hope. And you you
1:06:38
you started going there. Uh give us a word of hope that we can share with our
1:06:43
audience.
1:06:44
>> Well, you know, you got to complete to me everything in my life has been the uh
1:06:49
football. I got to complete the story when I started playing flag football and
1:06:53
playing uh boxing. I got to get in the ring at 51 years old and finish my
1:06:58
story. And I want to finish the story from brain health. I want to be uh I I'm
1:07:02
not done with uh contributing to charities and doing uh spreading um good
1:07:07
good good things and helping others. And that's kind of what I'm all about. Every
1:07:10
chapter of my life was baseball, football, boxing, I'm not going to
1:07:14
wrestle Wrestlemania, by the way. That's not happening. So, I'm rocking ring. But
1:07:18
other than that,
1:07:19
>> hold it. Hold it. You could wrestle Chris Harvard
1:07:22
in Wrestlemania.
1:07:24
>> I don't want to wrestle Chris Ninsky. No, I think be Yeah. No, I'm not doing
1:07:29
that either. He's a but uh but no but I think everything I I want to make create
1:07:34
new chapters and and and be a positive influence on others and that's what the
1:07:38
charitable work I've done is all about is helping others you know 911 people
1:07:41
help me I wanted to pay it forward now when you had all these other tragedies
1:07:45
like Vegas and Parkland shooting I we helped others with my 911 charity you
1:07:50
got to keep paying it forward so now brain health has become a mission for me
1:07:54
grinding great and other charities to make sure and renewing athletes lives
1:07:58
just to make sure that people like in my situation have the means uh and and get
1:08:03
the benefits that I've gotten. I've been I've had a lot of uh great therapies and
1:08:07
people that have come out to help me and I want to make sure other people other
1:08:10
people get the same benefits that that I've had.
1:08:14
>> Kind of sounds like karma because what comes around goes around. It sounds like
1:08:17
you do a lot for people and I'm glad you've had the opportunity to receive.
1:08:21
So before we end this, tell us a little bit about renewing athletes with Bernie
1:08:27
Kart because that's a big thing right now.
1:08:29
>> Father, yeah, Father Daughter Team, Michael and Aaron Crowley, the Crowley
1:08:33
Center for Regenerative Bio Therapeutics and they're out of Rochester. You
1:08:37
mentioned Elmyra, they're in Rochester and they have helped Bernie for the last
1:08:41
year and a half. When I tell you that Bernie when he was going through the
1:08:44
worst of the worst with his liver failing, his clarity and brain focus,
1:08:48
you would never know the guy who's going through life and death situation at the
1:08:52
time. So, I kept asking him, "How are you doing all this stuff? You're in
1:08:56
Miami, you're in Cleveland, you're back and forth." And it was really this uh
1:09:00
stuff that he's been using. And uh it's uh so, you know, he said, "Mike, I got
1:09:05
to I need to help you." And this is when he was going to the liver transplant.
1:09:08
Wanted to make sure that Mike Dempsey was in that first group of 20 people.
1:09:11
you need this,
1:09:12
>> bro. You're you you need to get your brain together. I can't understand you
1:09:16
when you talk on the phone. I'm like, I think I just talk too fast. Like a
1:09:19
bloop. I go, well, you make most sense, Mike. You need this. So, I've been doing
1:09:23
it for the last two months and, uh, it's been helping. And not going to say I'm
1:09:27
100%, but I'm getting back there to where, um, so, um, I'm really blessed
1:09:32
and I hope other retired players can get the benefit of, uh, what renewing
1:09:36
athletes lives is all about, helping others. And I've learned all about the
1:09:40
stem cells of warden uh jelly. That's where it's derived from and all the
1:09:45
benefits. And I don't have to go to South America to get uh you know like
1:09:49
other people have had it to the last couple years. So do this the home twice
1:09:53
a day and they I'm really blessed that they came into my life.
1:09:57
>> Well, if Corey and I could track you for the last hour, you are doing pretty darn
1:10:01
good. So thank you. Appreciate
1:10:03
>> I appreciate that. I've gotten a lot better. I haven't my podcast. You should
1:10:06
see me a year and a half ago. I did one and I don't remember what I said. I made
1:10:10
no sense. I think I've been a little bit more better today than I was in prior.
1:10:15
>> Well, this is this was great. Yeah, you could you should see us a year ago.
1:10:19
>> And if you want to get Mike's full story, go to mikedempsey.com
1:10:25
and you'll get his full story, his bio, everything about him.
1:10:30
>> It's actually the mikedy.com. The miked demy.com domain would have cost me 5,000
1:10:35
bucks. The Mike Dempsey cooks me $15. So I wouldn't be Mike.
1:10:39
>> Go to the miked dempsey.com.
1:10:42
>> Absolutely. Good.
1:10:43
>> Hey, thank you, brother. I appreciate it.
1:10:45
>> Appreciate it. Thank you.
1:10:46
>> Go Jets.
1:10:47
>> No.
1:10:48
>> Oh no. We got to got to give those poor guys some uh
1:10:52
>> Are they even in the playoffs?
1:10:54
>> Oh no. Oh gosh.
1:10:55
>> Oh god. But my Buccaneers got
1:10:58
>> the Buccaneer. My Buccaneers beat the Panthers and then they got knocked out
1:11:02
of these. I can't I have no luck with football teams. So, I might just root
1:11:06
for the Panthers since I live in North Carolina. So, I got to pick some team
1:11:09
for the playoffs.
1:11:10
>> Well, you played for them, didn't you?
1:11:11
>> Who?
1:11:12
>> Panthers.
1:11:13
>> No, no, no, no. The Jaguars
1:11:15
>> and Jaguars, Jets, Green Bay,
1:11:18
>> Baltimore.
1:11:18
>> Oh, Ravens. That bird. Not the Not the Okay.
1:11:22
>> Yeah, that big.
1:11:24
>> I think both Jaguars have I think it's going to be the Jaguars and the Patriots
1:11:26
in the AFC. I can't say you should have win that one, but
1:11:29
>> Well, it was us in the AFC in 96 and Bichc cheated, of course. So, anyway,
1:11:36
>> he did.
1:11:38
>> He did.
1:11:40
>> Story, you tell it anyway.
1:11:41
>> I'm telling you, you know, we we went up there and it was freezing cold. Uh and
1:11:45
uh and uh the lights went out at halftime for an hour, like 45 minutes.
1:11:50
And you were like, "Okay, and we were winning winning. We were winning until
1:11:54
the last six minutes." And you think that's bad? You know, I just watched
1:11:59
>> maybe not
1:12:00
>> a podcast with JB Mooney on it.
1:12:02
>> Yeah.
1:12:03
>> JB Mooney's like a great bull rider, $7 million bull
1:12:09
rider,
1:12:09
>> right?
1:12:10
>> And he was talking about getting on the baddest bull bushwhacker in Decar,
1:12:16
Texas.
1:12:16
>> Right.
1:12:18
>> And they opened up the latch and the lights went out.
1:12:21
>> Oh.
1:12:21
>> And he strapped onto this bull and the lights went out. So that nobody saw the
1:12:27
the ride, did he?
1:12:28
>> No, he didn't make it.
1:12:30
>> He didn't make it the eight seconds. Oh god.
1:12:32
>> So, thank you so much, Mike. We appreciate it. It's a blast having you
1:12:38
on. We're going to have you on again just because we're running out of time,
1:12:42
but maybe next month or the month after if you don't mind coming back on. Of
1:12:47
>> course.
1:12:48
>> And I just want to say thank you, Paul. And you know, I like bringing people
1:12:53
like Mike and Roy and them out. And you finish this up.
1:12:58
>> Uh you you know you know why we do this. We do this to help others. Um we we
1:13:04
bring doctors. We bring CEOs of uh new technologies and companies on. We bring
1:13:09
therapists. We bring people like Mike who have helped uh support all of these
1:13:15
uh issues. and uh sports figures like Mike and uh you know we we we've had
1:13:21
some of the best of the best. So, and it's it's been a an incredible 2025.
1:13:26
We're already into 2026 and uh it's going to get even better and we're going
1:13:32
to be able to help people. Uh we've got some big news coming up um literally uh
1:13:38
uh probably in the next episode where you and I just sit around and wrap a
1:13:42
little bit.
1:13:42
>> Well, no, that's a couple episodes back, dude. Well, anyway, so I this this
1:13:49
pre-taping and all that stuff, who who knows where it goes, right? But uh uh we
1:13:53
we appreciate every everything uh you do as um our guests and of of course we we
1:13:59
uh implore people to like, share, uh keep our uh information relevant and uh
1:14:07
and uh share the awareness of repeated head impacts because you know what?
1:14:12
There's there's over there's there's three and a half million plus per year
1:14:17
for traumatic brain injuries and repeated head impacts. Um the traumatic
1:14:22
brain injury in in in the United States and chances are you're going to be
1:14:26
affected by uh TBI. So, uh, uh, get get ready, get information, get
1:14:33
knowledgeable about what you can do and, uh, thank you. Thank you, uh, Mike for,
1:14:39
uh, be being on and we will absolutely would love to have you back. Good luck,
1:14:44
uh, at the Super Bowl. Can I say that? Is this G? Yeah, this is okay. This is
1:14:50
going to air after this. Anyway, so uh,
1:14:53
>> I'll be out this week. I'll be with Dr. Bareric who's promoting concussion 911
1:14:57
to help kids. Um, obviously it's a supplement that helps after a concussion
1:15:02
to make sure you rebound. One thing I didn't get after my concussion. My last
1:15:06
one is I didn't get immediate care. So I by not getting that, it affected me
1:15:11
worse. So he's all about doing having a supplement that helps um bounce back. So
1:15:17
when you take it within 24 hours, you're you're better. um the concussion 911
1:15:22
thing I think is going to change lives and uh he's got it out on Amazon and
1:15:26
other mechanisms and I hopefully he'll be a future guest and kind of talk more
1:15:30
about how he can help kids and athletes and high school and college and
1:15:33
professionals so that they don't have to have the bad effects of concussions like
1:15:37
we did.
1:15:38
>> He's he's the doctor that was at Mark Mac Parkman,
1:15:40
>> right? Send him our number, man. I'll be more than happy to bring him on.
1:15:44
>> Yeah.
1:15:44
>> Yeah.
1:15:45
>> Yep. Yeah. You met him in Tampa. Yep. You met him in that conference. Yep.
1:15:48
>> Awesome. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good one.
1:15:52
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1:15:56
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