Michigan State men's and women's basketball season recap

This week, The State News' sports reporters break down the men's and women's basketball seasons.

What is Sports Round Table from The State News?

The State News sports reporters discuss all MSU sports.

Brad: 00:12

Hey, guys. And welcome into the Sports Roundtable from the state news. All your sports stuff all in one place every week, every time. We love to do it. I'm here right now with Thomas Cobb.

Brad: 00:25

Welcome into the show. It's great to see you again as always.

Thomas: 00:28

Hello. Hello.

Brad: 00:29

You just got back from North Carolina.

Thomas: 00:31

Yes, sir. Right?

Brad: 00:32

That was

Thomas: 00:33

North Carolina. We got the the full stay Yeah. Thursday through Sunday.

Brad: 00:38

How was that?

Thomas: 00:38

It was once in a lifetime experience. My first time really. First time covering March Madness, so getting to do that, it's what you grew up watching as a kid. Yeah.

Brad: 00:49

I saw the photos. They were great.

Thomas: 00:50

Myself guy myself grew up watching Michigan State Basketball in March Madness. So it was just kinda

Brad: 00:54

It's like a like, really surreal first full circle moment. I love that.

Thomas: 00:58

I love that. Incredible incredible experience. Very surreal. And I'm sure I speak for the 2 other people that that I went with as well as our women's basketball writer who what was about an hour and a half away in, Columbia, South Carolina for the

Brad: 01:12

the Women's

Thomas: 01:13

Women's tournament.

Brad: 01:14

Basketball tournament. Yeah. That's, that's a good time. It is it is a good time unless, well, obviously, you're Michigan State and you go home early. So, yeah.

Brad: 01:24

That's that's basically the gist of today's show is that we are recapping the Michigan State men's basketball season, the whole shebang, the whole season. It's gonna be great. So first things first, let's address the high expectations that MSU had entering the season. Right? They had a lot of veteran and freshman talent.

Brad: 01:47

A lot of people excited for Xavier Booker. Right? And, then they finished at 2015. So I guess, let's like people were expecting to see something more. They didn't get it.

Brad: 02:01

And I guess, like, what do what's your take,

Thomas: 02:04

or what's your story as far as, like, Where MSU, like, what happened? What happened is it's a variety of things. I think there were some miscalculations on the part of the coaching staff. Think that there were some unfortunate, you know, extenuating circumstances that happened throughout the season, and even before the season started. And I think that, you know, they were rated number 4 nationally in AP and to begin to begin the year.

Thomas: 02:33

You know, you're playing on your home court to James Madison, right, number 4, and you lose opening night. People, I think, had a skewed view, in large part because that number 4 ranking was it was it was based around a lot of things and a lot of things that didn't end up happening. It was based around MSU's freshman class really being, you know, one of the best freshman classes in the country as they were coming in. This was a top five recruiting class wherever you looked. And if you just kinda look from guy to guy, one of them was a red shirt.

Thomas: 03:08

I mean, there's a 4 star recruit that was a red shirt. There's a 5 star recruit that was nowhere near where the coaching staff thought he was gonna be coming in, and he didn't end up getting meaningful minutes until March, February late February, March. And the other other 2 guys, while one of them got shot and in January Right.

Brad: 03:29

Over Christmas break.

Thomas: 03:30

Yep. And and then the other one was a phenomenal athlete, and he's just not not as well rounded of a player as he needs to be to get to the next level. And that's not saying that's not anything against him. It's just it's the truth of the matter. He was not supposed to be the the Konecarr was not supposed to be the main contributor of the freshman class, and that's just the way it worked out.

Thomas: 03:52

Some of it was in extenuating circumstances, some of it was a miscalculation on the coaching staff. I think that Tom Izzo and his staff really regret not going out and getting a transfer center. I think that they thought that they had a group in Jackson Kohler, Carson Cooper, Xavier Booker, and Maris So to kind of, as a committee, you know, do enough work where so where the guards can take the team places. Because this is a team where the guards I mean, like Thomas O'Sallead, these these 3 guys, Jayden Akins, Tyson Walker, and AJ Hogarth were all on magazine covers in the off season. You know, this was, top backcourt in the country coming back.

Thomas: 04:29

Jayne Nakeens went nuclear in the tournament the year prior, showed that he can be a 2 way NBA kind of guy, and he was inconsistent throughout the year. Tyson Walker was brilliant at the beginning of the year. He averaged 20 points through 10 games, and then for the rest of the year, I think he averaged around 15, he had some injuries, just wasn't the same player. So I think that to answer the questions to kind of circle back, that number 4 ranking was predicated on a lot of things happening that didn't happen. And so those were kind of what I just described.

Brad: 05:03

And, you know, and it's crazy too, cause I hate the, I hate the feeling like, like a lot of people say that Tom Izzo, like, isn't trying. Or like doesn't wanna like getting to the tournament is like good enough for him. And it's like, I think if you're doing anything, like, you know, I mean he's obviously passionate. Like, why would he still keep doing it unless he, like, wanted to, you know, I because I think if you listen to interviews back at the beginning of the year, well, before the year, I mean, he really thought or had confidence in that this was going to be one of his best teams that he's ever had. And I think that I think you are right.

Brad: 05:43

And it is fair to say that a lot of things, didn't end up happening, like, that they thought would happen. And I think that they thought that Marty Sissoko would turn out to be someone who would do more more stuff.

Thomas: 05:55

Carson Cooper would be would develop more than they thought they would. And Jackson Kohler wouldn't have gotten hurt in September and missed the 1st 2 months of the season. They thought he was gonna be and he's as I was coming out and said that they thought he was gonna be a significantly more part of things than he ended up being because of that injury. They thought that David Booker was gonna be farther along. They thought that, like you said, Sasoka would kind of round into a consist like, not great, but consistent force like he was in the last 3 games of this season.

Brad: 06:21

So then, as someone who's been around the team for the for the whole, you know, for the season, like, I guess, describe I wanna talk about Booker for a second because, you know, that that progress that he made from, like, when we saw him in December to, like, see him in, you know, January, February, March, like, that is crazy. You know, like, that is like, he actually looked like a guy who can compete out there with, you know, some of the other players. So I guess talk about him. Like, what what what did you notice? No.

Thomas: 06:50

It is crazy because, I mean, this is a 5 star guy we're talking about. I mean, purely based on honestly size and potential, like, he was not necessarily this force in high school when it came to, you know, playing on the court. I think he was the 2nd or third down turn in on his team in terms of points. Just a guy that is 611, has a beautiful jump shot, and has a 7 foot 6 wingspan. You know?

Thomas: 07:16

So just when it comes to that, he I think he just shot up from being unranked, being a 5 star recruit. And then he comes to Michigan State and he comes in, and there was a lot of things that that were keeping him off the court. Some of it was mental, Izzo said, that he just didn't have the motor early on, and, you know, then you can get into, like, what is motor? I guess it

Brad: 07:40

Like, what is that? What does that mean?

Thomas: 07:42

I would describe it as like I would describe motor as like, you know, knowing what it takes sometimes to do certain things like internally and like drive competitiveness, aggressiveness, kinda all play into that, but it's just such a weird dynamic that this, you know, this 5 star recruit ended up having this path. And at the end of the North Carolina game where the season was over this past weekend, he's he did say I'm coming back next year for sure.

Brad: 08:12

Yeah. And he said I'm coming back. And what's I mean, that probably will end up likely being his last year. Right? Because if he I mean, imagine, like, the think about the progress Absolutely.

Brad: 08:22

That he did from from the beginning of the season to now. Like, I mean, expedite that. Like, that's If he

Thomas: 08:28

can stay healthy, he will be going to the NBA after next season most likely because, I mean, you you hit it spot on. He you if you could watch him in in a tournament in January, like, in January, if you'd looked looked ahead to the future and you saw him playing in the tournament, you'd be like, wow. Like, it's like a it's like a beautiful sight because he did he not just gained the the the physicalness, he gained £20 over the course of the season, let alone the off season where I'm sure he gained gained some weight and muscle, but he gained so much confidence. And that was the biggest thing for him was just being on the court. And, you know, I think that Izzo handled him in hindsight perfectly because you put him on the court in December and January when he's not ready physically and mentally, it kills, like, his his confidence.

Thomas: 09:15

It kills all of his his spirit and motivation. I don't think that they needed him. He wasn't the the answer to their to their problems at that time. The answers answer to their problems was, you know, they can the the play from their senior guys.

Brad: 09:30

Right. That that those are the guys that should be stepping up right now.

Thomas: 09:33

And those are the guys that warranted Michigan State, that number 4 ranking, having been to a sweet 16, having beaten, you know, sort of a a a nationally respected team like Marquette in the tournament, and you have these this 3 headed monster at the guard spot that you don't need a game changer head center to to to win a national title. Like, you have Malik Hall who ended up being exactly what they hoped he'd be at the end of the season, February March, but he wasn't that way the whole year. AJ Hogarth was incredibly inconsistent throughout the year. When scored 3 points, went 1 for 10 in the North Carolina game. And that was just sort of emblematic of the season.

Thomas: 10:18

You know? In in 40 minutes against North Carolina, Michigan City was everything that they had been all season. You know, a fast experienced led team, a team sort of just fighting to to stay afloat and in the game, and then they were a team who's crumbling for 3, 4, 5 minutes was ultimately enough to just completely bury it.

Brad: 10:41

And, like, obviously, they started off with that loss against James Madison, like and I and I don't know if you'll agree with this, but, like, obviously, it wasn't nothing was ever great throughout the whole season. But I wanna talk about really, like, do you ever really think that MSU was on the cusp of missing the tournament? Until, like, I I'm talking about the narrative of their whole season. Right? Like, we're talking about, like, late December through January Right.

Brad: 11:12

February. Do you think that MSU, until the last couple weeks, which were a little rocky, do you think that before

Thomas: 11:19

that take you through, like, sort of the my whole journey with that throughout the year.

Brad: 11:23

Yeah. Absolutely.

Thomas: 11:25

So they start off 4 and 5, they they drop 2 their first 2 big 10 games to Wisconsin and Nebraska, and so you enter the Christmas break period where normally that's like down, and and they did play some some pretty well major teams that they beat up on. But they played Indiana State over the holiday break, which, I mean, talk about a scheduling let's just talk about scheduling malpractice. I mean, Tom, is that what you the the the mid majors that you schedule in a season are James Madison, Indiana State

Brad: 11:58

Yeah. That's that's

Thomas: 11:59

Oakland. It's it's just All

Brad: 12:02

teams that that On top of playing. Are really, really good mid majors.

Thomas: 12:05

On top of playing Arizona, Duke, Baylor, you name it.

Brad: 12:10

I think and especially after last year, like the scheduling nightmare that he kind

Thomas: 12:15

of gave himself. Well, that's it's it's like that every year, but this year was incredible because of the James Madison and Indiana State particularly. Anyways Right. Right. Right.

Thomas: 12:23

So they that Indiana State went end up end up being huge for the tournament resume. We didn't know

Brad: 12:29

Because, right, because they had ended up having an incredible season finishing 29 of the net.

Thomas: 12:35

They had lost that game. They might not have made it at the end. So, if you keep going through, they they kind of found themselves in the middle of big time play. They won, I think I think 13 out of 17, and they were sort of heading toward this, like, 6 like, if they kept winning at the at the rate that they were, if they won the games that they should to end the year and, you know, a game or 2 in the big 10 tournament, they would get like hopefully a 6 seed. That's what Michigan State fans were looking at it saying, we could end up getting a 6 seed and then having to play, you know, into a 3 seed in the the amount of 32, and then Right.

Thomas: 13:13

2 then 1. So that's kinda like, you know, a decent spot. Right. And then they had played 2 home games in a week against Iowa and Ohio State. Both games that they were heavily favored and I think double digit Mhmm.

Thomas: 13:27

Favors. They lost both.

Brad: 13:28

Yeah. The Ohio State one was tough.

Thomas: 13:30

Inexplicable because they were up by double digits.

Brad: 13:36

Yeah. Something like that and they just completely

Thomas: 13:38

And it was just like the most uninspiring, like

Brad: 13:41

And they had a lot of offensive trouble. Right? And then, like, I know because, like, that's one of the knocks on Booker. Right? Is that, like, he started that game and that I think that was the Booker

Thomas: 13:51

type of person. And he played

Brad: 13:53

well, 17, he played well for 17 minutes and then he didn't play

Thomas: 13:57

very well. And the coaching staff rode Sasoko down the last 8 minutes of the game. Right.

Brad: 14:01

And and I think that was the troubling that was the troubling decision because, and we're not you know, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse or say, you know, because we've already discussed this at length. But, you know, that was that was that was hard because Booker provides offensive value to the team. Right?

Thomas: 14:18

A lot of offensive value.

Brad: 14:19

And, like, I mean, yes. It because his biggest weakness right now at the moment is his defense. Like, that's where he's a liability. However, like, you know, at that point, it was like, at this point, his, you know, his offensive, prowess definitely outweighs his defensive risk, you know. And so that was, I guess, that was the the thinking there.

Thomas: 14:40

And that's just kind of the you pick your poison if your if your time is up, you know, you don't Thomas would rather lose a game because they can't hit a shot than lose a game because he's getting beat up on the glass. Right. Right. Right. Off like, someone misses a cutout and he lose the game.

Thomas: 14:53

Like, he would much rather lose the game because he was a center who can do virtually nothing offensively. And then so they lose those 2 games.

Brad: 15:02

Mhmm.

Thomas: 15:03

They win the next one against Northwestern. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Before

Brad: 15:10

By the way, he is rattling all these off off the top of his head. Like, he doesn't have anything in front of him. I'm talking about you. You're just, like, doing this off the top, like, crazy. I'm just very impressed.

Thomas: 15:22

I I just got it wrong. So Well the 2 games and then they go to Purdue and they lose by 6 at Purdue, you know, which is a very, very promising loss.

Brad: 15:31

Yeah.

Thomas: 15:32

Sort of a moral victory even though there are no moral victories if you're a sports if you're an athlete or sports fan.

Brad: 15:38

Right. Like moral victories are hilarious. Hilarious. Right?

Thomas: 15:41

That's just a funny concept. But, anyways, they sort of showed the effort that they didn't show against Ohio State and Iowa where it just kind of showed like, okay, this team, you know, they they have what it takes effort wise.

Brad: 15:55

And didn't they play well against Purdue twice?

Thomas: 15:58

They did. Right?

Brad: 15:59

Like And

Thomas: 15:59

so that was the first time they beat Northwestern on senior night by 4. Yeah. And then, the final game of the year, it's at Indiana. Indiana struggled all season, but it's their senior night. It's gonna be a tough game to win and they held, I think, an 8 point lead in the last 6 minutes of that game.

Thomas: 16:14

And if they had won that game, you could firmly pencil them in to the front to the

Brad: 16:20

front Absolutely. Yeah.

Thomas: 16:20

Because it's it's a road win, you know, they didn't have many of those. And they ended up losing the game, in the final seconds By what? By 1. In the end, it makes a shot. MSU comes down, misses a shot and then all of a sudden you're sweating going into the Big 10 tournament.

Thomas: 16:36

Thankfully, for Michigan State, they won against Minnesota to open the Big 10 tournament in a game that was pretty much necessary for them to win if they wanted to make March Madness, in the grand scheme of things. Because fast forward, the next day they lose they lose to Purdue by 5, another game that they could have won had they, you know, maybe had a little better shooting night or, say, had foul trouble. That's, that was a big part of it. So then that Saturday of championship weekend, Michigan State was firmly in, like, in the the conversation. Mhmm.

Thomas: 17:10

And they ended up being firmly in the conversation when when all was said and done. But what happened on that Saturday night was as a lot of these tournaments were wrapping up, you know, lot of the other conferences have their championships on Saturday night. A lot of really, like, middling teams in these conferences ended up making runs and winning their conference tournament championships.

Brad: 17:32

Like NC State. Right? And like like

Thomas: 17:34

The BIDS Steelers. Steelers. Oregon. Right? The Bitz Steelers.

Thomas: 17:36

Right. Right. Bitz Steelers. There were, I think, 6 or 7 Bitz Steelers.

Brad: 17:40

In hockey, we call them line movers.

Thomas: 17:42

Duquesne Yeah. Oregon, NC State.

Brad: 17:47

Like Just a bunch of them.

Thomas: 17:48

Bunch of them. Like teams that would otherwise have no business making the tournament.

Brad: 17:52

That's crazy.

Thomas: 17:53

Make the tournament, and now all of a sudden, it's pushing all

Brad: 17:56

is that why is that kinda why MSU, even though they did end up making it in, they were kind of at a 9 seed? Like it was kinda like, I know some people said it was high. I don't

Thomas: 18:04

think it necessarily ended up affecting their seeding.

Brad: 18:07

Okay.

Thomas: 18:08

I think it just was making a lot of people nervous because that bubble, they call it the bubble,

Brad: 18:13

you know,

Thomas: 18:13

the It shrinks. Of 10 or 12 teams or so that are

Brad: 18:16

in that 8. And it probably is what forced Indiana State out of the tournament.

Thomas: 18:20

It is.

Thomas: 18:21

And unfortunately, for in in the state, they lost their conference to Drake Right. Who, you know, were is

Brad: 18:27

is good team. Their

Thomas: 18:28

bid. Yeah. It's a good team, but not better than Indiana State. They didn't have a better year than them. Right.

Thomas: 18:32

But they had

Brad: 18:32

but they had one better game.

Thomas: 18:34

And they had one better game and now they're playing, now they're dancing, and Indiana State's not dancing.

Brad: 18:38

Can I say something really really quick? This is a hot take, but I think that conference tournaments are so stupid. Like, I hate the I, like, I just Shout

Thomas: 18:48

out of the day.

Brad: 18:49

It really because I don't know who else agrees with me.

Thomas: 18:51

Because it doesn't affect the seeding really. Like like, people, the Big 10 Tournament Championship is literally 20 minutes before the selection show. Right. The game ends They've already determined who's gonna

Thomas: 19:03

The game ends and it's like, okay, celebrate for 20 minutes now, you go find out what what seed you have. Right. And so, like the the committee has come out and said that, you know, these games, especially like the the championships on the final day, like, they don't really matter.

Brad: 19:18

So the only thing that actually matters is if you weren't going to otherwise, Like, Michigan, for example, wouldn't have gotten in the tournament. I mean, they didn't, but they they needed to win the big ten, and and they weren't going to. But my point is is, like, these teams that their only option is to win. Yes. Right?

Brad: 19:35

Is that that's all that matters.

Thomas: 19:36

That's all that matters.

Brad: 19:37

And that's I think that's see, I think that's lame because it doesn't your regular season matter more.

Thomas: 19:42

But what I was gonna say is, it doesn't really move the line in terms of seating, but it can affect the field in the way that, you know, some of these these big suitors just rise out of the out of the ashes and all of a sudden

Brad: 19:56

I guess it is nice that it gives them a reason to, like, you know, but but wouldn't you feel better in a system? And I'm not trying to get, like, all sort of morally, like, how should we change the system or whatever. But wouldn't you feel better in a sit in a in a system where, like, the regular season champion made it? And then also the but I don't know for mid mate. I don't know what you would do for mid majors because are you giving more more mid majors, more spots?

Thomas: 20:20

It is funky how, you know, it's based on the tournament change.

Brad: 20:24

It's based on 1 5 day 5 day And it's a one game. It's a single elimination.

Thomas: 20:29

We gotta win 3 games to get there.

Brad: 20:31

Well, yeah, but you gotta win every game.

Thomas: 20:33

Right.

Brad: 20:33

And if you lose once, bye bye.

Brad: 20:36

See you.

Thomas: 20:36

And that's just a that's just Like,

Brad: 20:38

do you think it'd be double elimination? That would be that would

Thomas: 20:41

argument for expanding the NCAA tournament.

Brad: 20:43

Interesting. But then but a lot of people that wanna expand the tournament wanna put more of, like, I don't know, like, who

Thomas: 20:51

did it? You're right.

Brad: 20:52

Like, you know, they wanna put Ohio State in or something. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Like, that's, I think, the problem is they only care about their own conference.

Thomas: 21:00

It is a problem. But Anyway, that was off track. No. In Michigan State's defense, they ended up not even being that close to falling out. They were the the the highest rated 9 seats, so they ended up being 10 spots away from missing the cut.

Brad: 21:12

Do you think that it was fair, like what did, how the committee graded MSU?

Thomas: 21:15

I do, I do. I think that when I was looking at all the Twitter racketologists and stuff on Selection Sunday, you know, I sort of was basically all my opinions around them, and they all sort of had a similar idea of how things were gonna turn out. Michigan State, almost all of them had Michigan State in in the play in game and day in.

Brad: 21:32

Oh, okay. Okay.

Thomas: 21:34

So I sort of I went over to the wrestling that day, like, an hour before the show just kinda my head straight, you know, write a little bit, just a prep. And, you know, everyone's talking about the playing game. All you're gonna have in Michigan State, Virginia, Michigan State, Saint John's, you know, Tom Mizzo, Rick Pitino. That's that was just sort of the whole narrative. So I go in there and I'm thinking, okay, like, we're going to Dayton, like, I had to

Brad: 21:58

You had, like, probably a whole story right now.

Thomas: 22:00

I had, you know, I had, like, a little summary lead and stuff going for it for both options. But for I went in there and so, like, okay. We're Michigan States. I'm gonna be traveling traveling to Dayton and, you know Yeah.

Brad: 22:16

And that hours.

Thomas: 22:19

Or And and hours. So

Brad: 22:21

And that that would be probably a drive for you then.

Thomas: 22:23

Right. Right. And honestly, I'm so glad that

Brad: 22:26

That you got some fly? Yeah. I bet you are.

Thomas: 22:31

But I was sitting in the, they didn't let us the media watch with the team this year. They have in the past. This year, that it was just a team and, you know, family or and whatnot. Yeah. So the media was watching it in a separate room and they were going down, you know, they're listing off the regions and there's a couple plans, like they announced a few plans at the 10 spot, and I was gonna say it wasn't in there, they announced a few teams that I thought were gonna be out completely, and so, you know, they announced 3 regions and all these teams that I thought were, you know, like Virginia and Colorado State, like, announced that Virginia and Colorado State play in at the 10.

Thomas: 23:10

Mhmm. I think it was the region before Michigan State's region and me and sort of all the other writers in the room just kinda were like, you know, like, we didn't outright say it, but we all just kinda, like, we knew that, like, this is not good for Michigan State. Like, they're probably a mistermant based on what based on what we had gathered Mhmm. From from the media, like, as a whole, a national media. Based on what we had gathered from them, we had determined that, okay.

Thomas: 23:37

Like, they're out. Like, they're not gonna make the tournament. And then they came in as 98, and we were all just kinda like, oh my gosh. Like, total total curve ball.

Brad: 23:45

Yeah. Watching I think watching that selection Sunday was, like, very, like I was, like, I texted somebody that covers MSU and that that, like, I'm, like, you know. Uh-huh. And I was, like, did did do you think they missed it? Like, as a 25 in the net, do you think they missed it?

Brad: 24:00

Like, really? Like, you know, and then they obviously, they came back for the commercial and they just ended up being in the final bracket that they talked about, which was, like, you know, kind of a sweat,

Thomas: 24:10

you know. So Indiana State ended up being the highest ranked team in the net ever To

Brad: 24:15

not make it.

Thomas: 24:16

To not make it. And it would have been Michigan State. I think MSG was, yeah, 25.

Brad: 24:19

Right.

Thomas: 24:20

And Indiana State was 29. Right. Something like that. I think it was 33.

Brad: 24:23

Before it was 33. You're absolutely correct. You're just rattling these off. I don't know how you do this with just off the top of your head. You're just you're just, you got brain knowledge just just floating.

Brad: 24:34

And you just remember everything. It's crazy crazy stuff. So lastly, I wanna leave off with, with just kinda like, what does MSU need to do, going forward, you know, into the off season to prepare for next year?

Thomas: 24:48

I think that they're in in, you know, relatively good good shape for next year. You have Jeremy Fierce coming back. Izzo has repeatedly said that he's a guy that he thinks can can lead a team and can you know, he's always said that coached or player led player coached teams are so much better than coach coached teams, and I couldn't agree more. Jeremy Fears is a guy who embodies that. Xavier Booker is gonna make a ton of strides, just oozing potential and talent.

Thomas: 25:16

He's gonna be an NBA player. Jane Akins could come back. I think that, you know, based on talking to him after the North Carolina game, it seems like that's kinda where his head's at. And then so you'll you'll have him back. Jackson Kohler, Carson Cooper, Trey Holloman, Derek Norman, and then you have a decent freshman class.

Thomas: 25:37

Pretty good. Right. I mean, it's not as good as last class, but that was a top five class in the country. It's a couple really really talented guards, big and small. Kurt Tang is more of a shooter, ball handler, and Jace Richardson is more of, like, a bigger guy.

Thomas: 25:52

You can really drive it and shoot it. And then a bigger guy, Jesse McCullough is more of a power forward, 6 to 8. And I think I just think that they're all it Izzo's gonna like his team going into next year, he's probably gonna go get a transfer. He realize he realizes now

Brad: 26:09

Is that a mistake?

Thomas: 26:10

Yes. And it's not that he doesn't like transfers, I mean, he's gotten transfers as early as, Draymond Green senior year in 2012. He went out and got Brandon Wood from I think it was, you know, like, somewhere in the Mac. Brynn Forbes, in 2016 was a transfer. Aaron Harris, Tyson Walker, and Joey Hauser.

Brad: 26:33

Yeah. I see I see what you're saying.

Thomas: 26:34

No. Yeah. He's not afraid to to use a transfer portal. It's just he

Brad: 26:38

It's probably the culture

Thomas: 26:39

that, like, the actual

Thomas: 26:41

his staff made a miscalculation, and and I do think that he doesn't necessarily like the landscape of the transfer portal. But him and his staff made a miscalculation, and he knows that. And I think that at the time, when they didn't think that they need that they needed to go get anybody, that was kinda inconvenient for him to beat up on that transfer portal, you know.

Brad: 27:00

Right. Right.

Thomas: 27:01

know, we don't need anybody, you know.

Brad: 27:03

We're good. We're good. We're good.

Thomas: 27:04

We're not gonna, like, like, we're loyal to our guys and then the team just ended up being, you know, insufficient to to do what they thought that they were gonna be able to do. And I think that their ceiling is higher next year with new culture. You're sort of moving on to a new era, which can say basketball. Tyson Walker less, AJ Hogarth less, Malik Hall less, possibly Sissoko less, Arab Michigan State Basketball. So I think that in in all honesty, that's a good thing for them, because while at many times throughout 2, 3 years, those guys were able to show that they had the potential to do great things.

Brad: 27:44

Mhmm.

Thomas: 27:44

They just never got it done. And bottom line, I'm just gonna say at Michigan State, if you're, you know, in that basketball program, you're a talented guard, you gotta be able to get it done, and getting it done means final fours.

Brad: 27:55

Wow. Crazy. I'm I I don't know. I'm excited for MSU Basketball. I mean, it's I think I'm excited for football too, but we'll get we'll get there.

Thomas: 28:03

Big 10 championships final fours. If you're not doing that, I'm just gonna say.

Brad: 28:06

Then what are you doing? What are you doing? So you haven't been on since we brought trivia to the sports route, round table. Are you ready? Do you think you are this one's a women's basketball question.

Thomas: 28:16

Hit

Brad: 28:17

me. So okay. Let's do it. Okay? So the most points that Caitlin Clark has scored in a game was on was it against Michigan on February 15, 2024.

Brad: 28:31

She scored 49 points, okay, that day. That puts her 3rd on the all time list for most points in a single game. Right? Can you name either or both of the top two players most points in a single game? This can be?

Thomas: 28:53

a guess so. I guess

Brad: 28:54

I don't know. I don't know. I'm not giving you the answer yet.

Thomas: 28:57

No. I'm just gonna, like, rattle them off. Okay.

Brad: 28:59

Yeah. Just go ahead and rattle them off. Great. That's super right, though. I just can't.

Brad: 29:04

Oh. Because I gotta tell the answer at the end of the podcast. And you're the first you're the first guy on.

Thomas: 29:09

Oh, so this can be could be right or wrong.

Brad: 29:11

It could be right or wrong. You would never know, but it's not, actually.

Thomas: 29:16

I will give 2 official guesses.

Brad: 29:18

Okay. 2 official there you go. That's a that's a good I need

Thomas: 29:20

to I need to put that.

Brad: 29:21

Yeah. That's fine. We'll just play the Jeopardy theme song.

Thomas: 29:32

Okay. I'm just gonna go with to Rosie and Super.

Brad: 29:42

I don't know, actually. I can't tell you. But I but I but I will. You will find out right after this. Welcome back to the Sports Roundtable podcast.

Brad: 29:56

This time we're, flipping the script. It's, we go from men's basketball to women's basketball and we have Deshaun Johnson who covered the women's team for the 2023, 24 season.

DeShawn: 30:11

Yep. Yep.

Brad: 30:12

First of all, how was South Carolina? How was that?

DeShawn: 30:15

Oh, man. The experience was awesome. Like I've just been telling everybody, I mean, that's my first time doing, like, a big travel thing for any type of recovery army reporting experience. So it was just awesome to go. Obviously, this is my first time in South Carolina as well.

DeShawn: 30:28

So I've seen a lot of different things and just, the the the setup they had there for March Madness, it's an experience that I've never seen anything like before.

Brad: 30:36

That's crazy. And, and that's awesome. And I'm I'm really happy that you're back. Oh, yeah. Thank you.

Brad: 30:41

I'm well, you know, I mean, I I guess, like, if I were you, maybe I don't know if I'd want to be back. Like, I just keep reliving those those 3 days over and over and over again. So MSU women's Basketball, I don't know that we saw this coming. 22 and 9 Yep. Number 4 in the Big 10 Yep.

Brad: 30:57

Number 9 seed in the tournament, Lost to North Carolina in the 1st round. Now I wanna ask something actually for someone that's not necessarily as equipped with knowledge about women's basketball. So I'm I'm just gonna compare MSU's men's team. Okay. 2015.

Brad: 31:15

Right?

DeShawn: 31:15

Mhmm.

Brad: 31:16

So they play more games, I imagine, than the than the women's team. Yeah. And, like so then they were also 7th in the big 10. Right? And Michigan State's 4th in the big 10 at 22 and 9.

Brad: 31:30

Yeah. But they're both 9 seats. Yeah. So like, what like, I guess, give me the why.

DeShawn: 31:36

So, I mean, the way that I kinda seen it break down for women, for, I mean, for the women's team, I think they get put at the 9th seed just because of the tough losses they had to the teams that were, better than them better than ranking wise as far as net ratings go when it comes to picking for the tournament. But if

Brad: 31:52

they lose to a team that's better than them in the net, doesn't that isn't that a good thing? Like, I mean, I I'm not saying losing is good. Yeah. But theoretically, it's a better loss than losing to a team that's worse than them.

DeShawn: 32:04

It it definitely is. I think that what the problem when it comes to though is that, like, you just, like I I feel like you have to win one of those games when it comes to, like, just, like playing against teams that are better than you than everything. You have to have one of the wins that is kinda like, you know, like, when I was checking for kind of, like, when I was just looking into bracatology and seeing what they were gonna land for this year, you know, obviously and I know you you're kinda big into bracatology. You see the the different games that, like, they show that are kind of the big ones. You know?

DeShawn: 32:29

There's we talked about this on the pod a little bit before of, a little bit of skill point rankings when it comes to college basketball and how that ranking goes. So, you know, like, you know, the tough loss to Iowa, to Indiana, to Ohio State, you see that all those teams are better than Michigan State in the net rankings and that they even

Brad: 32:52

And, yeah. Because it seemed like like I said, it seemed like they've had a good season.

DeShawn: 32:55

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Brad: 32:56

And and 9 losses is not bad.

DeShawn: 32:58

Yeah. Right?

Brad: 32:59

So, I guess I'm like I guess that's my thing is I'm like 9 seed. Like, it seems like they should be playing, like, you know, a little bit higher. But but I guess that's I'm not the expert, but you are. So do you think that the committee judges him fairly?

DeShawn: 33:13

I I I wanna say that it was pretty fair. Like, I mean, like, the I think the the biggest, like, kind of flag that was raised is that Michigan also got a 9 c when getting into the tournament, and they did not play as well as the Spartans throughout the entire year. But I think another part that kind of hurt the Spartans was the losing streak at the end of the year. They dropped quite a few games. Well, Michigan, they I don't exactly remember how they finished off, but I know they was the positive end while you kinda see that Michigan State.

DeShawn: 33:36

Although, you know, big big ranking in the Big 10 tournament, you know, but you kinda lose a couple short games straight and then the loss in the Big 10 tournament to Nebraska. I I think when you factor it all in, it's just like, I mean, like they they definitely took some losses at the end of the year that I I would say it was a fair ranking for the most part.

Brad: 33:51

So then, I guess as far as the the the season overall Yeah. Like, how much of a like, start with the expectation. And I guess take me through the whole season to, like, where, like, you know, they they started off well, like, how did they start? They start off pretty good?

DeShawn: 34:09

Yeah. I mean, so I just to give you a little bit on the expectations. I mean, I think that coming into the season, you know, you had a lot of new things going on. And I don't wanna go too much on a tangent, but, obviously, head coach dropping for, like, was the biggest thing. But the great the I think that the great thing about that signing and, like, the the thing that wasn't so discouraging about having a new head coach was just the resume that she had been coming in with.

DeShawn: 34:30

I mean, she, Matt, coach of the year, multiple tournament or end of the year tournament appearances. Firtha had a lot going on at the time, so I I think that, of course, you had a lot to think about. But you start, you know, you start the first couple of game I think they went on a 4 game winning streak to start the year. You go to the Cherokee Invitational and you lose your first game. But in those first couple of games, you're scoring 80, 90.

DeShawn: 34:51

I think at the very beginning of the year, they were averaging 92 points, through 4 or 5 games. So it was clear that there was a big offensive input. It was clear that this team was performing on a different level than they had the year prior in just 4 or 5 games. You hit the middle of the year and I think this is when the team kinda really realized that there was something going on with this team that it could be a lot more than anybody kind of expected them to be. I don't exactly remember where they are in the record at this point, but they had only lost 2 or 3 times, and the toughest loss that that that they had at that point was to Nebraska.

DeShawn: 35:21

That's the big 10 opener. And I mentioned this on the podcast earlier in the year too, you know, no disrespect to any of the team that the Spartans are playing, but it's when you get into big 10 players when things really start to get a little bit serious. You start to get really to the midst of the season. So, they did lose the game there, but after that they go, there was like a little bit of a streakiness for the Spartans. It's a win loss, win loss, win loss, win 4 or 5 straight, lose a tough game like one of these Ohio State, Iowa games, win another 4 straight, lose, and then they have that period at the end of the year where they lost quite a few games.

DeShawn: 35:51

But, like, just to to play off the expectations, I think that at first, like, it was just a little bit of a who knows, like, at this point. Like and I I mean that for fans. I mean that for the coaching staff and for the players. Like, of course, like, you know, you're gonna be all bought in and you're gonna have to give everything you've got, but you don't know what's gonna happen this year. But midway through the year, I think everyone has started to get a grasp on this team really had something going for it and they could make a run if they wanted to.

DeShawn: 36:16

I mean, everybody on the roster at this point was talking about it. So the expectations quickly started to rise for the team. And by the time they made it to the post season, there was kind of like this narrative that they're playing with house money a little bit if you will. Just because, I mean, the low expectations, you know, you didn't expect to be here. You got a lot going on that's gonna continue to build the program just with this new coaching staff coming in.

DeShawn: 36:36

And and then you get your spot. You get a 9 seat in the tournament, you're you're a high seat in the big ten tournament, that only creates a little bit more attention that you're gonna wanna bring into Michigan State's program that that adds to your resume and what and what you can bring in for the oncoming years. So ultimately, I mean, it was it was a huge expectation with for sure.

Brad: 36:54

And then, like, what what is Robin and Frey like doing recruiting wise?

DeShawn: 36:58

So, I was just looking at this and I I wanted to I I got it up here on my phone here. There is we can talk about this a little bit more, but the one thing that, like, I think the Spartans really realized from the NC State or I mean, from the North Carolina game throughout the different game against, like, teams like Nebraska is that there's just a little bit of a a size disparity going on there. Mhmm. There's a great story with Michigan State's basketball team or Michigan State's women's basketball team with Julie Arol and her playing the center position as a point guard this year. I mean, she's played point guard all her life.

DeShawn: 37:27

And yet, she's second in the

Brad: 37:28

able to play the 5.

Thomas: 37:29

Oh, she's Crazy.

DeShawn: 37:31

Playing incredibly. I mean, she's top 5 and blocks in the big 10, number 8 in rebounds. Like, I mean, she's she's doing an incredible showing. It's just the despair is not the disparity is not on her. It's the fact that when Julia has to take a break, they don't really have anywheres to go.

DeShawn: 37:46

So, I was just taking a look here right before we started the pod and there's, been confirmed 4 different signings for the Spartans and it gets me really excited to see what they potentially could do. So I I don't wanna I I I don't know too many or too much about each of these prospects, but I can give you just a little bit about them. There's 4 different confirms, signings that we already had, and these were announced a couple months ago. But there's one, and I don't I I I sorry if I mispronounced her name, but I think it's Sotelo Miguez. She's a 634, and she's out of, she's a native of Spain.

DeShawn: 38:17

She's currently playing in an overseas league, and I mean just looking at some of the things that they have about her just on Michigan State's, like scouting website that they have up there, She's got some serious game. I mean, she's playing with you know, we've heard about what overseas basketball can be like. She's playing with a lot of older competition that is a lot more physical, a lot more just, you know, get get serious now. So her seeing that transition would be, definitely like a a fun new thing for the Michigan State Spartans, especially, like, when I mentioned that size of spare that they have. 2 more forwards coming in.

DeShawn: 38:46

1 at I believe she's 6 one and another one at 6 foot. Both of the, one of them coming out of Ohio, one of them coming out of Indiana. Like I said, there's still not too much to be known about them now, but they're having pretty good high school seasons, and they're both depth to the size disparity that we keep mentioning. And then Frederick also mentioned, and this is the cool thing, is that 2 of these signees coming out of Ohio, one of them coming out of Toledo, Ohio. Her name is I believe it is yes.

DeShawn: 39:09

Sanai Douglas, and she's a point guard coming out of Toledo, Ohio. And so far, have a little bit more about details on her on Michigan's webs or Michigan State's website. But what she's been doing in her senior year has been, like, pretty amazing down there in Toledo, Ohio. I don't know what exactly what the competition's looking like, but she's averaging well in the 14, 15 points per game area. And it just seems like she has a lot of, like, different type of gameplay that the Michigan State Spartans could need at the guard position.

DeShawn: 39:33

You're gonna have Didi moving up into a big veteran position, but you're losing a lot of guard play, in this upcoming year with losing on Tori Azme and Mo Joiner, a lot of veteran guard play. So yeah, a little bit there to play with. The I mean, 4 4 signees that seem that they could bring a lot to Michigan State's roster next year, which is gonna be continuing to build a to be a strong, but still rebuilding process as there still a lot of new faces and then more faces leaving the team as of next year.

Brad: 39:59

And so I guess it's because I know Michigan State, like, almost it's like the the men's and women's teams have almost, like, had a complete, like, flip. Like, it's like the opposite narrative. Right? Like, with the men's team, you had a ton of expectation entering the year. A lot of that, you know, was partially because, they were hyped with the recruiting class.

Brad: 40:18

Yeah.

DeShawn: 40:18

And a

Brad: 40:18

lot of things didn't pan out the way they wanted them to. And so there was a bit of a rocky road. With the women's team, it was very much like they, like, had lower expectations. Obviously, you're gonna be rebuilding a program, building it with a new coach. You're doing it.

Brad: 40:35

You're kinda laying the groundwork for the for the future. And there there we didn't really know what to expect. We just knew that that Fraylik had a great, history. Yeah. You know, or or resume.

Brad: 40:46

Right. You know? She was at Bowling Green. She did great things there, and she built that program pretty pretty, pretty good. Yeah.

Brad: 40:53

And so, like, she comes to MSU and she kind of, there's, like, hope for the future. And so I think that there's it's very interesting to see that sort of disparity or not disparity, but, like, contrast Yeah. Between the men's and women's teams. And so, like, going forward into the future, like, what do you think the expectations are gonna be for next season? Do they have to like, if they don't make the NCAA tournament, is is that going to be like a failure?

Brad: 41:15

Or, like, how how are we going to, like, identify the tangible, like, growth for the team?

DeShawn: 41:21

I think that's a definitely, like, a bit of a funny question because, like, I mean, like, you know, you don't wanna take this year and, like, completely blow it out of proportion and, like, say this is the new standard. However, there is a certain level of it to where, like, it should be the standard for this team going forward. Like, you know, the Michigan State's women's basketball program, a while ahead hasn't had hasn't got the exact exposure that the men's team has gotten. They've had some decent runs in the past decade or so. And, you know, you you want to continue to see that coming from a school that prioritizes basketball programs, you know.

DeShawn: 41:51

So, like, Fraylich, obviously, like I said, I mean, a huge resume, multiple tournament or appearances. Her record at Bowling Green State are 30 I think coming off a 31, 31 win record. It's it's obviously, what she's capable of is amazing. So I I I'd obviously, their expectations that that they had coming into this season, it's not gonna be anything like that next year. It's just definitely gonna be like, you know, like we're expecting a lot out of this program, but I I think that it should also just still be remembered that, like I just mentioned, it they're still in the midst of a rebuild process.

DeShawn: 42:27

Like, you know, coming into this year, that was kinda the idea. And although that, you know, they show that they could have a great year, there has to be a a little bit of remembrance that Mo Joyner, she did just play her last game as a Michigan State Spartan. Tori Osman just played her last game as a Michigan State Spartan. And, I mean, they had both been in the program for 4 years apiece. So, you know, like, that's those are key factors that are being lost.

DeShawn: 42:49

And as a coach, you know, that is just getting there, you definitely have to do things to make sure that you rebuild that in the right way. You don't wanna you know, like I said, 2 of those 22 of these prospects are coming out of Ohio, and you don't want it to, you know, as a coach, you don't want it to just be like, you know, like, oh, I'm just bringing in more people from Ohio. It has to be a slow blend. So, you know, like, I it's gonna be a process for them. But I I think to me, like, the expectations are going to be, at at least a better record than we had, what we've seen previously to this year.

DeShawn: 43:17

I I don't know if 22 wins is gonna be the exact, like, the exact goal point, but I do expect to see 16, 17 wins. Another, you know, a positive record within the Big 10 Conference. I definitely think that team is here to stay at least at a certain record or a level of where they were this year.

Brad: 43:32

That's crazy. And and we're we're looking forward to it because, I think it's it's awesome when you have, like, both the men's and women's program that are, like, really making moves. Right. Now moving on to, trivia.

DeShawn: 43:43

Okay.

Brad: 43:44

To sort of, you haven't have you been on for trivia yet? I have not. You have not been on for trivia. You're gonna love trivia. Okay.

Brad: 43:51

It is great. Okay? Anthony's gonna cue music and it's gonna be great. Not actually live.

DeShawn: 43:56

It's gonna

Brad: 43:56

be in the editing process. Okay. We just, we, you know, I just like to I just like to, you know, be creative. Anyway, so, trivia time.

DeShawn: 44:05

Okay.

Brad: 44:05

It's actually about women's basketball. So it kinda might be up your boat, you know, sort of thing. And this actually does lead into our next segment where we have Hannah Holy Cross talk about Caitlin Clark. Okay. Alright.

Brad: 44:19

So, we look forward to that because that is a bonus segment that we did not anticipate having this week.

DeShawn: 44:25

Okay. Definitely.

Brad: 44:26

So, here's the trivia question. Are you ready? Yes. I am. The most points that Caitlin Clark has scored in a game was against Michigan on February 15, 2024.

Brad: 44:42

She scored 49.

DeShawn: 44:43

Right. Right.

Brad: 44:44

That put her 3rd on the all time list for most points in a single game. Okay. Okay? Can you name I'll give you I'll give you this question. If you can name either of the top 2 players.

Thomas: 44:57

Okay.

Brad: 44:59

So this You get well, you get 2 2 official guesses. 2 official guesses.

DeShawn: 45:04

Okay.

Brad: 45:04

And I'll tell you if they're right.

DeShawn: 45:05

This is actually kinda crazy. Like, I know for a fact that I've seen I, I'm gonna so, like, I mean, I'll be totally honest, like, I I I I don't think I know the name, but I know for a fact that I've seen a a crazy stat line, like, 2, 3 years ago where somebody I somebody dropped, like, 60. Yep.

Brad: 45:27

You're close. You're getting there.

DeShawn: 45:28

But I don't know You're getting there. I don't know your name. I see your name. Interview. It's

Brad: 45:33

That is so unfortunate. Lee?

DeShawn: 45:36

Yeah. Something Lee.

Brad: 45:37

Yes. You are correct.

DeShawn: 45:38

But I don't know her name. I don't know her name.

Brad: 45:43

But, like, I don't know. Because should I Anthony, should I give that to him? He's he's got the he's giving me the thumbs up, so I think I can give it to him. I mean, that was, like, that honestly, that was pretty impressive.

DeShawn: 45:53

No. I just I know I've seen that one before. Like, you know, like, I usually, like, some of the crazy, like, stat lines on ESPN. I knew knew I seen someone drop 60. Was this it was, like, 59, 60, something like that.

Brad: 46:03

So yeah. So she I'm pretty sure I could be wrong. Let me actually do do do. Let me look up, I'm trying to, like I'm queuing my own music. Yeah.

Brad: 46:14

So it was actually a yokelee.

DeShawn: 46:16

A yoke. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad: 46:18

Yeah. She scored 61 points. Oh my god. Yes. 61, points against, I think it was so she played for k state

DeShawn: 46:29

Right.

Brad: 46:29

Yeah. With 61 against Oklahoma.

DeShawn: 46:31

Yeah. Because they only drop like, I don't remember the final score, but I know Oklahoma only had, like, 70 points or something like that. Like, I mean, like, she killed them.

Brad: 46:41

So it was it was crazy. And I think one of these games, they I I wish I would have put in the, I wish I would have put in how well, like, what the final score was. Because, she scored, oh, it was a win. So so they did they did win the game, at least. Right.

Brad: 47:01

I think, I can't remember who it was, but somebody scored a bunch of points and they lost. And I was like, that must have been nothing.

DeShawn: 47:06

I couldn't even tell you the second on that list.

Brad: 47:08

So, actually, that one, I think, is is what most people get. So this was recent. So Ayoka Lee scored 61 against k State Right. I mean I'm sorry. With, she was on k State

DeShawn: 47:19

Right.

Brad: 47:19

Right. Against Oklahoma 2022. Right. Lori Bauman is second. Oh, Bauman.

Brad: 47:25

She had the record until 2022. Okay. She scored 50 Okay. And Drake

DeShawn: 47:30

Oh, wow.

Brad: 47:31

I'm sorry. She played for Drake

Thomas: 47:32

Okay.

Brad: 47:32

And she scored that against Maryland.

DeShawn: 47:35

Wow. Okay. Oh, and I guess the big

Brad: 47:36

fan team well. Okay. And and that was in 1982. Oh my god. And that was also in the NCAA tournament.

Brad: 47:44

So that is also the most points that anyone has scored in the tournament.

DeShawn: 47:48

Wow. So Wait. So I'm sorry. Kaye Stage, she Kayelyn dropped 49. This was 50 and then she just what year what year did Ayoka drops?

DeShawn: 47:58

Do you do you have

Brad: 47:59

61, 2022.

DeShawn: 48:00

Oh my god. See, that was like That was

Brad: 48:02

like 2 years ago.

DeShawn: 48:03

Oh my god. That's insane, dude. That's crazy. Isn't it?

Brad: 48:07

And, like, imagine 61 points. Like, Paige Beckers, who's, like, insane

DeShawn: 48:12

Right.

Brad: 48:12

Scored 61, but in her in 2 games.

Thomas: 48:15

It

Brad: 48:15

took her 2 games to do.

DeShawn: 48:16

Yeah. No. That's insane. Because that's what I thought I'd seen. I I knew for a fact that I'd seen something like you actually know ESPN.

DeShawn: 48:23

They've been getting a little more creative with some of their posts too now. Like,

Thomas: 48:26

she some of them

DeShawn: 48:27

are like, she almost dropped the whole team off by herself. I'm like, oh my god, dude. Like, it seemed fake. You see some crazy stat lines in women's basketball too. Some man, some crazy stat lines.

Brad: 48:37

Yeah. That's crazy. Like, that's like, I mean, I mean, yeah. Like, the whole team, the other team probably didn't even have to come.

DeShawn: 48:43

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, like, what's the point? Like, what's the point?

Brad: 48:46

Yeah. So, anyway, so thank you to Sean for coming on to the podcast, and thank you everyone else. We got Hannah Holy Cross coming up next to talk more about Caitlyn Clark. Hey, Hannah. So it's so good to have you on.

Brad: 49:04

So just for people who are, you know, new here and wondering who you are. You work at the state news and do a lot of fantastic reporting about the, which desk are you on?

Hannah: 49:18

So I'm on the regional desk as the breaking news and public safety reporter.

Brad: 49:23

Right. And so we are bringing you on for none of that. Like, absolutely none of that. So you were on you were on the 19 0 9 last week, and you did an incredible, feature story about, the this this sophomore who created this app and, like, was tracking the MSU, parking police, basically. And that was a great story.

Brad: 49:46

Then you were on House Lights to discuss the Royal Family. Yeah. And Hannah oh, it it well, I'm sorry. You are Hannah. Liz said, something along the lines of, like, you're on a podcast role.

Brad: 49:59

And so what's next? Sports Roundtable is next. So we are committing to the bit. We are putting you on. And you said that, you I guess, let me ask you, what's the one thing you know about sports?

Hannah: 50:16

Yeah. So I when Liz said that, I was like, that would be hilarious because I only know one thing about sports, which is that Caitlin Clark's setting records.

Brad: 50:25

Right. And she is. And she is. Yeah. So I guess I want to start, just to give viewers a little bit of context, as far as, like, your interest level in sports.

Brad: 50:39

Did you ever play sports as a kid? What, like, what's where where are you coming from?

Hannah: 50:45

Yeah. So I've never really been athletically inclined. Growing up, I did play tennis in high school. Was I good

Brad: 50:56

Like, for the high school team though?

Hannah: 50:57

Yes. For the

Brad: 50:58

high school team. But, like, that's more than me. Because, like, I'm somebody that does, like, actively involved. I'm the host of a sports podcast. And I tried out for the baseball team, didn't even make the cut for the freshman team, and just stopped playing.

Hannah: 51:14

Yeah. I mean, I was on the varsity team by default, just because I was an upperclassman, and there wasn't really a lot of upperclassmen, so I just kinda got thrown on there. But growing up, I never really watched any sports besides football. Because I grew up watching football because my parents and my whole family are huge MSU fans, and I would tailgate. And we we were such big fans.

Hannah: 51:40

We we fly we fly to bowl games.

Thomas: 51:43

Mhmm.

DeShawn: 51:43

We I

Brad: 51:43

Big big fans.

Hannah: 51:44

Yeah. I went to the Rose Bowl, the Cotton Bowl, the Peach Bowl. But this was all when I was really young, and I was kinda just there for the vibes.

DeShawn: 51:52

Perfect.

Hannah: 51:53

I don't Yeah. I don't think I really got the gist of football until college when I started going to the games with my friends, and they kind of explained it to me. Same thing with basketball. I never really understood basketball really until I got to college. And one of my best friends, she's a huge basketball fan.

Hannah: 52:13

She has season tickets, and she kind of explained it to me. So I don't really keep up with sports that often besides football. So that's, like, when, like, it was like, oh, you should go on sports round table. I just thought it was so funny.

Brad: 52:24

So yeah. And it's it's crazy. And, like and I love that you're here to to discuss to discuss this because we got a big topic on the table today.

Hannah: 52:33

Yes.

Brad: 52:33

And it is, Caitlin Clark. None other than Caitlin Clark. She has been, in a word, insane. Like, so, I guess, like, the the context that a lot of people, put or the lens that they view Caitlyn Clark through is that she is a lot like Steph Curry, who is an NBA player and, is known for how good of a shooter he is. Right?

Brad: 53:02

So, like, which is something that's kind of been, like, with with sports in general, basketball. Players have gotten better at shooting as time goes on, and and they've realized that if you shoot more 3 pointers, you and you have a higher chance of winning because if you can improve your 3 point accuracy, 3 point 3 points is more than 2. Right? We would we would we would agree on that. Yeah.

Brad: 53:25

Right? So that there's a more probability of you scoring more points if you just, you shoot more threes more often, and you get better at shooting them. Yeah. So, so anyway, I guess, like, from your perspective and, like, I guess, you know, what have what have you been hearing about Caitlin Clark? And I guess I wanna know, like, what's, like, what would she is she getting you interested in, you know, whether it's women's basketball or just basketball in general?

Hannah: 53:59

Yeah. Because I feel like I kind of have that outsider perspective just because I don't really keep up with sports that often. The thing I like about Caitlin Clark and what she's doing for women's basketball is, like, a few years ago, if you were to ask me, like, okay, name 3 basketball players. I would probably say like LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, all men. But then if you're like, oh, like name 3 actors.

Hannah: 54:27

Oh, well, like, Meryl Streep, Leonardo DiCaprio. Like, it's more like

Brad: 54:30

We could go, it's more diverse.

Hannah: 54:31

It's more diverse. So the thing I like about Caitlin Clark is she's kinda making that name for herself. And, you know, I get news headlines, I get notifications. And so I always get, like, sports notifications. And I feel like half the sports notifications I've been getting have been about Clark.

Hannah: 54:50

And just kinda putting that name out there, and not not just being like, look at me, but, like, look at us. Like, bringing that attention to women's college basketball and eventually the, WNBA.

Brad: 55:01

Yeah. And that's and that's I mean, it it is, it's gonna be crazy for the NBA, I or the WNBA. I'm really excited to see how the WNBA gets affected because, I I think that there are, and I'm not gonna make a case for one way or the other, but there are people that have argued that the WNBA, some of their decisions that they've made haven't necessarily been the best to market the WNBA or, you know, do certain things for the WNBA. So I I guess, like, it's it's a tricky situation that the WNBA has always been put in because like sometimes I mean, I was watching a couple of games before and they were like, I heard or I heard about them and they were like on Facebook video. I'm like why are we what are we doing?

Brad: 55:53

At the you know what I mean? Like, I don't I just I'm not an expert. I'm not gonna pretend to be 1. But I'm just like, it seems a little I don't know that I would broadcast on Facebook video, you know, for, like, if I'm a major sports league. Right?

Brad: 56:08

So, that was that was weird. And it was like an exclusive on Facebook video. So, so I guess, like, I think that Caitlin Clark can have a real impact and get real people to watch this, this league that historically has has struggled to attract a viewership. And I think a lot of it does have to do with, like, media investment. You know?

Brad: 56:33

There are a number of reasons. I'm not gonna say that, you know, Caitlin Clark is the only reason that the WNBA is gonna be saved. Yeah. But it'll be interesting and I think, and I guess, yeah. Like, what what else, like, like, do do you know any other dub or college basketball players?

Hannah: 56:53

Yeah. So the first time I ever became aware of who Caitlin Clark was was I was on TikTok, and people were talking about Iowa's matchup against Louisiana and Angel Reese. And they were talking they were talking about kind of I don't know if it was, like, beef, but I think it was Angel Reese and Kaitlyn Kirk kinda, like, taunting each other on the court. Mhmm. Yep.

Hannah: 57:16

And people on TikTok were kinda commenting on it and be like, that's immature behavior, blah blah blah blah blah. But then people were like, men do that to men do that to each other all the time on the court in men's basketball. But because it's, like, 2 girls who are very passionate about the sport, it's, like, bratty and bad behavior. It was very, like, odd. So I actually became aware of those two names at the same time.

Hannah: 57:39

And then people were kind of trying to pit them against each other, and I think both of them came out and were like, look, like, we're both 2 women, passion about the game, who are at the top of the league. And so I feel like also Angel Reese has kinda thrown her name out there too as well to kinda bring that attention to.

Brad: 57:55

And what do you think that, like, I know that you said that you didn't grow up the biggest sports fan, and you've kind of gotten into it to it to a little bit of a degree. But is does part of it, like, like, I'm obviously, you know, I, identify as a man, like, born man. Right? So I guess, like, I don't have the experience of, like, not seeing representation of white males on the court. So, like, whereas, you know, with women, it's it's I feel like it's much harder.

Brad: 58:25

There's also a lot

DeShawn: 58:25

of men that

Brad: 58:26

sort of gatekeep sports to a certain degree. And so do you think that you would or or just women in general would feel more, like, comfortable getting into sports or not not necessarily comfortable, maybe that's not the right word, but more enthusiastic about it if, women's sports were treated with the same, sort of, gravity that men's sports are.

Hannah: 58:51

Well, if I get growing up, you know, you kinda learn about the, wage gap between men and women, especially in sports. Men's sports bring in so much money, and it's always been, like, there's not really much people could do about it because more people do attend their games. Their games do get more viewership, so it's just natural that they would be making as much more money as they do than women's athlete players. And I think that the more attention being brought to women's sports, more specifically women's basketball, opens up the opportunity for more women to fit to view athletics as a career. I feel like a lot of women who are very good at their sport don't think they can make it very far because they won't make as much money as, say, like, a male soccer player would make over a female player.

Hannah: 59:37

So I feel like kind of bringing this attention. And, you know, my roommate, she's a cheerleader here at MSU. And so she cheers both men's and women's sports. And she she's, like, a big reason why I've kinda gotten more into at athletics because she always talks about the women's basketball team. She loves to cheer their games, and she cheered their tournament last year.

Hannah: 59:59

This year, she turn she cheered the men's tournament. But she told me, and I this might need to be fact checked, but that the women's NCAA tickets cost more than the men's this year.

Brad: 01:00:09

That's crazy.

Hannah: 01:00:10

Which if that's true, that's huge improvement.

Brad: 01:00:13

That's yeah. That's wild.

Hannah: 01:00:15

Yeah.

Brad: 01:00:16

And, like, I guess, like, that that is that is crazy. I think a lot of it, like, does have to do because I I like that you brought up the whole the point about, like, if you're, you know, if you're a girl and you're growing up and you are interested in if you're playing a sport. Right? It's it's much harder to want to take something. Not not not I don't wanna say, like, you're you would be taking it unseriously.

Brad: 01:00:45

But, like, it's hard to have that motivation when there might not be a league that you would find yourself in. And I mean, hockey's having a moment right now with the PWHL. And because there was before there were, like, 2 leagues, but they weren't really that big. And they were kind of, like, in protest of each other. They were both battling at odds.

Brad: 01:01:06

And now they both combined and merged to which is something that nobody thought was gonna happen. And now they are one big professional women's hockey league, which is very good for the just the sport of hockey in general. And people in Michigan are upset because there's not a Detroit team. And there's also no, college women's team at all. So that's an issue too because Michigan exports a lot from the men's and the women's side.

Brad: 01:01:34

They export a lot of good hockey players. But if you're if you're a woman growing up in Michigan, you can't you can't go to school here and play hockey. You have to leave the state and that's a big deal breaker for a lot of people. I was hearing some people who used to play college hockey, some at the University of Minnesota Duluth and some other universities who said that, they played with a lot of the people in the PWHL and they pursued a, like, what you would call a real degree because they knew that that that the the space in the professional women's, like just in the in the sport is so limited. Right?

Brad: 01:02:16

So so that is interesting. And, I guess, I guess kinda just to just to leave it off, do you think, like, what do you think you'll find yourself, like, watching the WNBA? Or though it's hard because it's like, how do you root for someone? Like, I rooted for Nia Clouden, you know, when, like, I think she's on LA's team now, but she graduated from MSU. Right?

Brad: 01:02:43

And she was on she was a couple years ago or a year ago or something like that. And so, I rooted for her when she was in the WNBA.

DeShawn: 01:02:51

Mhmm.

Brad: 01:02:51

And, but other than that, like, Detroit doesn't have a team. So, like Yeah. You know, so that's hard.

Hannah: 01:02:58

Yeah. I feel like because even men and women's basketball, I kinda watch from a distance, kinda just see what people post on their stories, who won, stuff like that. So as someone who doesn't typically watch sports, I think I'll still probably watch from a distance. But I feel like I am very intrigued by Caitlin Clark, and I feel like she is drawing more, women into viewing the sport who typically wouldn't. So I could see myself watching a game just to see the history she's making.

Hannah: 01:03:27

Because I typically I watched the most recent basketball game because I wanted to see my roommate on the court cheering. Yeah. So that that kind of is what got me into it. But I did wanna bring up kinda like how I was saying about Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese and the criticism they were facing earlier. I saw a tweet actually yesterday that was a picture of a Stanford women's basketball player.

Hannah: 01:03:53

She had, like, this long blonde hair and was like tall, and this guy tweeted the picture and was like if Caitlin Clark looked like this, maybe I would watch her play. And, someone quote tweeted it because luckily I typically don't get hateful stuff like that on my feed, but the quote tweet is what came up on my feed, which was someone being, like, you know, you could be as prominent of a player as Caitlyn Clark and set the record she set, and you'll still face that discrimination. It's still you like, you can never win.

Brad: 01:04:27

Yeah.

Hannah: 01:04:28

So that was kind of a crazy thing to see is that even though she has made all these steps, there's still that.

Brad: 01:04:33

There's still that pushback in that. Yeah. That's that's really tough.

Hannah: 01:04:37

So I'm hoping that as she goes through her career and, like, same thing with Angel Reese, people have been, a few months ago on TikTok, I kept seeing people talking about her grades. That she didn't have good enough grades and didn't go to class enough. I'm like, when have we ever discussed a male a male basketball players grades?

Brad: 01:04:56

That's crazy. Because like, it's like because I mean, anybody that goes to MSU for football or basketball would not get into the school on merit. Like, there's no way.

Hannah: 01:05:09

U of M too.

Brad: 01:05:10

Right. Like, well, ex ex especially U of M.

Hannah: 01:05:12

Especially U of M.

Brad: 01:05:13

But, like, most of the big ten schools, I'm pretty sure I I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if it's all the big ten schools. Like any if you're a really good basketball player and you're here on scholarship, there is no way that you would make it here on merit. There's I just I just don't believe it for a second.

Hannah: 01:05:31

Yeah. So, like, I wonder as these female players make more of a name for themselves and become more prominent, if that kind of sexism will be more brought to light and people kinda realize how ridiculous it is. Because like that hateful tweet, there's so many replies that were like, what are you talking about? Why does that matter? And so I'm kind of hoping with them making these records and making these names for themselves that people kind of realize how ridiculous it is to hold women to this constant standard.

Brad: 01:05:59

Yeah. You do see that though with a lot of other things. I mean, once like, people have always hated gay people. But once more and more people started to, like, you know, once it became more socially acceptable, I think that you started to see people who are very hateful come out of the, like, come out of the woods, like, more

Hannah: 01:06:21

Yeah.

Brad: 01:06:21

You know, than they they they would otherwise.

Thomas: 01:06:23

Mhmm.

Brad: 01:06:24

And I think that I think that just goes for really any sort of, anything. There's always those people who think or feel a certain way, but they don't really like, it's not necessarily as public, you know, like, they don't have a big sign on their face that says, like, I hate women or something. You know? So you know what I mean? So yeah.

Brad: 01:06:45

It is it is interesting. And Caitlin Clark's what she I mean, what she's done, it's crazy though too, because it took me a second to grow on Caitlin Clark. Because when she I was so mad, but I couldn't be I couldn't be because, like, she's Caitlin Clark. I was so mad when she, scored on the last minute, like, last second of the game against Michigan State to beat them. Like, Michigan State almost beat Iowa, and, like, with Caitlin Clark.

Brad: 01:07:11

And

Thomas: 01:07:11

that's, like, a nice

Hannah: 01:07:12

thing too. Imagine all the people that tuned in to watch that matchup and saw the fight MSU put up against her. That brings awareness to MSU women's basketball team. So Which

Brad: 01:07:23

is doing much better than it it has been in in recent years.

Hannah: 01:07:27

They've been doing great. And their new coach from last year too.

Brad: 01:07:31

Right. Yes. Yes. Robin Fralick, love love that love, love her. Doing a great job, obviously.

Brad: 01:07:39

Yeah. So, so anyway, I guess, really thank you for coming on and, discussing Caitlin Clark with us. We I hope you enjoy Caitlin Clark from afar as she continues to be historic.

Hannah: 01:07:54

Yes.

Brad: 01:07:55

And, thank you guys for joining the Sports Roundtable podcast for today. I will see you guys the next one.