Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan sat down with Alexa d'Argence, senior interior designer at Ken Fulk Inc., to explore what it really means to design spaces people fall in love with. Alexa pulls back the curtain on KFI's work at the Huntington Hotel in San Francisco and the Beverly Hills Hotel. sharing how a strong concept and cinematic vision guide every decision from the big picture down to the smallest detail. The conversation gets reflective too, touching on why slowing down is sometimes the only way forward, and what it means to truly love the work you do.

About the Guest: 
Alexa d'Argence is a Senior Interior Designer at Ken Fulk Inc. in San Francisco. With a background rooted in hospitality and residential design, she has worked on projects ranging from The Flamingo Hotel in Santa Rosa to the Huntington Hotel on Nob Hill, recently featured in Architectural Digest, and is currently deep in the renovation of the Beverly Hills Hotel. A graduate of Cornell and a lifelong lover of hotels, she approaches every project as an act of care, craft, and storytelling.

Chapters:
00:42 Meet Alexa d’Argence
01:45 Sketching Under Pressure
04:02 What Hospitality Means
05:03 Hotels and Childhood Memories
05:59 From Marin to Hospitality Design
07:51 Storytelling and the Movie Mind
13:23 Designing for the Guest
17:22 History Beloved and Future Dreams
28:19 Sketching Together Works
29:08 Hidden Beauty Onsite
32:05 Details Beyond The Spread
33:15 Beloved Places And Memories
34:54 Renovations And Responsibility
36:10 Sustainability Sponsor Break
36:37 Tools Sketches And Renderings
39:40 Puzzling As Design Mindset
44:19 Mentorship Scent And Farewell

Quote of the Show:
"It's a calling, a vocation for me. So there's a lot of love that goes into it. This is a job where you are working long hours, and if you don't love it, you're gonna burn out." - Alexa d'Argence

Links:

🏨✨ Defining Hospitality is Sponsored by Berman Falk https://www.bermanfalk.com/ - Check out their impact page! 🌍🌱 https://www.bermanfalk.com/impact/ 

Ways to Tune In: 

Creators and Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Serena Johnson

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Alexa d'Argence
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Alexa d'Argence: [00:00:00] I, it's, it's what I bring to work every day, you know? This, this is a, a calling, a vocation for me. So there's a lot of love that goes into it. You know? This is a job where you are working long hours, and if you don't love it, um, you're gonna burn out.

What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is an interior designer, hospitality design specialist who specializes in creating concept-driven [00:01:00] spaces. She's currently working on the Beverly Hills Hotel down in Los Angeles, and she recently completed the Huntington Hotel in San Francisco, which was just published in Architectural Digest this month.

She's a senior interior designer at Ken Fulk Inc. Ladies and gentlemen, Alexa Dargent-Say. Welcome, Alexa

Alexa d'Argence: Hi, Dan. Thank you

Dan Ryan: It is so lovely to have You here. And one of the things I'd like to share with my readers, well, listeners and readers and watchers, is

we work...

Alexa d'Argence: many, of

Dan Ryan: Yes.

of many skills

Yes. Uh, what is it? A, um, a jack of all trades, but master of none. Well, I think I'm a master of something. But, um, speaking of mastery, which is where I wanted to go with this, is in all of these fast schedules that we all work on and all these projects that we work on, um, it's [00:02:00] very rare that I get to be there at a very, very early stage of a project.

So much so that, like you, in, in the case of the Huntington Hotel, I just had such a lovely experience with you sitting at your desk, watching you draw concepts out for side tables and nightstand, just little details. And I feel like I used to be able to do that a lot more earlier in my career, maybe when people had time or I had more time, or that I would get engaged in a project early.

But it was just so... I just love watching people who are masters at what they do, do their thing. And it was so, um, I don't know, pleasing for me to just see you there sketching these things out and me taking notes, and it was almost like mesmerizing in a way to just see you create. So I wanna start on that [00:03:00] foot with everyone, that you really gave me a gift in letting me s- experience that.

And then now it's published in Architectural Digest. I don't know how long, when that first meeting was. It must've been two, a year and a half, two years ago. So it's amazing, and thank you

Alexa d'Argence: Well, um, there's a lot to say there. I-- You know, for some context, the reason we were doing that was because we were short on time. I think it was that we didn't have time for the level of shop drawing which normally we would have created. So, uh, I was sketching with you so you could take a video and show it to Berman Falk, and then they could just go.

so it's funny that we were taking that time because we were short on time.

Dan Ryan: I miss that. I really, really miss that. But in a way, I think it's a great transition into, like the main question of this podcast, because I just felt completely at peace [00:04:00] and welcome there. And so with that, I'll ask you, what does hospitality mean to you? Why do you love hospitality?

Alexa d'Argence: Oh gosh. So hospitality I think is, is the way that you phrase an interaction. if you define someone as a guest, and, receive that guest, you are engaging in hospitality. and so it's how you frame an interaction. And you could call a lot of things hospitality if you think of it as receiving a guest.

And I think the best hospitality is, uh, going to achieve a level of mastery and excellence, whatever the context might be. So if you're, a cabin in the woods receiving a hiker, the, the quality of excellence is gonna be how cold is that water that you're giving them in a cup to drink, you know? and so it's a broad and roomy place, [00:05:00] I love it because it's a place for everybody.

You know, my early vacations, I think my family was unusual in that our vacations were to, to hotels. It wasn't we're going backpacking. It was we're going to this hotel, and that's the vacation. There was a place, I don't even know if it's there, down in Carmel, and we would go and stay, they had a kitchen and a pool and chickens.

the chickens were, like, a big part of it and, um, as a child. But that was the vacation. We went to Carmel to this hotel And it was an escape, and it was where we made memories and where we played and bonded. And so for me, all my life, hotels, hospitality experiences are where the good things happen, I think that's why I was always drawn to it, 'cause why wouldn't you be?

Why wouldn't you wanna be where the good things happen?

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Uh, when you, [00:06:00] when you would go down to Carmel, were you, you grew up in San Francisco or in the Bay Area?

Alexa d'Argence: Marin County.

Dan Ryan: All right.

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah. The Bay Area

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow. Okay. That's, that's cool. 'Cause then you finished high school, you went to Cornell, correct?

Alexa d'Argence: Yes

Dan Ryan: And then came back home to the Bay Area

Alexa d'Argence: Yes

Dan Ryan: and worked for one of my favorite people, who's no longer with us, but Eric Engstrom.

Alexa d'Argence: Hmm.

Dan Ryan: And was that your first experience of working on hospitality projects in, not in like a, a studio setting at like, at school, but was that, was that your first experience there?

Alexa d'Argence: Yes, it was. Um, I, I had a residential background up until then and, you know, a mix of other things like we all do. But, um, briefly, notably. But, um, you know, being a Marin girl, I, I think I've always been this way. I just look up like Marin plus hospitality, [00:07:00] just like I look... When I was looking for colleges, I looked up, you know, Ivy League plus interior design.

I mean, you could make your life choices that way. But, um, and so EDG popped up, and I was just amazed that one of these, one of the best hospitality design interiors companies was in Marin. And so the goal became to work, work there. And, um, unfortunately, I joined right, right as Eric had just passed.

Dan Ryan: But I'm sure much of his culture and, and like passion were imbued in the entire team at EDG there as well

Alexa d'Argence: And you know what I notice is like his rock and roll ethos.

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Alexa d'Argence: He, he was a, he was a cool guy and that coolness was i- in the DNA of that company. Yeah

Dan Ryan: Hmm. So on the rock and roll ethos, also being in the Bay Area, in-- I know we were speaking about Chip Conley over previous [00:08:00] conversations, but one of-- some of my fondest memories of my time in San Francisco were the Hotel Phoenix, which was, I think, designed... I feel like Chip would come up with the concept of he'd say a magazine and h- let's have three words, and then that's the story we're gonna tell, right?

And the Hotel Phoenix was Rolling Stone, and I feel like it totally caught that because I went to some crazy parties there with DJs up on the balcony or bands up on the balcony and just the whole courtyard just thriving. But it was a, it was amazing to be so literal in a story. So as your career's progressed, how have you taken-- I'm, I'm just really curious how you determine what that narrative is and how do you tell your story around that narrative and build that to where, and even using the, the Huntington Hotel up on Nob Hill as an [00:09:00] example, where it's such a good story, it's so well executed, it was done under such a crazy timeline, and now it's published in Architectural Digest

Alexa d'Argence: yeah, it's, it's funny, I learned that Chip did that on your podcast. Um, and I have always, you know, because of, good companies with strong storytelling, we've always, uh, looked for that story right at the beginning. we've called it the DNA, the pillars, um, but just a raison d'être d'être in a, a in a process that could otherwise be very arbitrary, right?

Coming back to your reason and your why will keep you, give you a North Star. But, um, so I've always done that throughout my career. I've been taught and now do it. [00:10:00] and then coming to work for Ken Fulk, he is may- the master at it. Uh, he calls it the movie in his mind. so for him, he thinks in this cinematic, um, experiential way, and it's just a, a gift and a pleasure to watch him talk about his vision.

Um, know, he did it for the Huntington when we started, and we continue to go back to that. But he is a man who loves Francisco, that building is 100 years old on the top of Nob Hill, where, you know, the old, uh, robber baron mansions were, where the, the earthquakes down the buildings. And so there's just so much San Francisco history there, and he saw it as this sort of house on the hill, a residential experience, a, a [00:11:00] cinematic one.

And I think you feel that when you walk through the door. Um, but yeah. So I, I work now with a man that's the master of it. Um, but I-- you need it because in a process that can take years and years, and when you're choosing color of, uh, a light switch, if you don't have a why, it's gonna start to feel meaningless, know, in this day to day

Dan Ryan: Shortly after I met you, I don't remember exactly when it was. It might've been over a Thanksgiving or I think it was either fall or winter. I think it was fall. I found myself in West Hollywood across from the PDC, uh, I think on Santa Monica Boulevard. And a neighbor of mine in Fire Island, Alex, she had helped bring the movie that was in Ken's mind to life in the retail [00:12:00] experience, which was such like an immersive story to be told, and it is a, it, it, and also just visiting you in your office and just walking through just off Folsom Street and going into, into the office and walking upstairs, I just feel like that idea of story and the cinematic like wow experience ties through everything.

But, but also all those experiences, whether it's Huntington, the retail location down in West Hollywood, your office, they're also very different as well

Alexa d'Argence: They are. You know, I think people, Think of a style when they think of Ken. But just as there are many movies, there are many styles and many places to take it. And by the way, that, that West Hollywood location is changing, so stay

Dan Ryan: Oh.

Alexa d'Argence: But,

Dan Ryan: Oh, great. Is he gonna stay in West [00:13:00] Hollywood?

Alexa d'Argence: oh God, I don't know where the d- I don't know the actual address of the ...

Dan Ryan: i'll ask Alex when I see her.

Alexa d'Argence: Uh, ask Alex.

Um, or I don't know if I can fully say yet.

but yeah. there's always a sense of a, a reason and context and history. And so, um, you know, the Huntington Hotel looks very different from the Beverly Hills Hotel it's gonna look

Dan Ryan: Earlier when you were defining what hospitality meant to you, it's like, it's that idea of defining who a guest is or nominating someone as a guest and receiving them as a guest. As you're coming up with your story and getting that movie in the mind out into that narrative, how do you place that guest walking through that movie or that experience?

Uh, how do you kind of open your mind and heart to let what that guest is [00:14:00] experiencing, and when does it, when, is there a switch or a moment as you're concepting it, like when you were drawing in front of me, um, where you're putting the guest into that experience, into that crucible?

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just baked in. We, we consider, the details from the beginning. You know, we, we're starting to think about uniform, um, tabletop, um, eventually like the, the candles, the, you know, the me- all of these things. So it, it's very easy to start to picture who that guest is, from the beginning, and there's imagery that, that we present and, um, of course, we're working with, with ownersh- whoever ownership is, and they're telling us as well.

and then, you know, drawing on my own experience as a lover of hospitality, I certainly know what I like and what [00:15:00] I'm interested in

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, I also think there's an interesting bifurcation between the hospita- I mean, the hospitality experience between the retail and the hotel experience. There is a hospitality experience between the two, but there is a difference between a guest and a consumer, and I know that you're more focusing on the guest experience.

But in your company, do you talk about, like for the, the products and everything else that's going through retail, do you talk about the difference between a consumer and a guest? Do you think about that?

Alexa d'Argence: I can't really speak to that. Um, that's that's not fully of what I do on the day-to-day.

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Alexa d'Argence: My feeling is it would be, The, uh, oh, the term consumer would never be one that was used in our office.

Dan Ryan: Right. Okay. Because that's more, it seems to [00:16:00] me that that's way more transactional and it's not-

tapping into that, that emotional experience or that switch that turns on when you receive someone as a guest

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, but I will say there's, um, an element of hospitality in everything we do.

And, Um, from, be it residential or retail or an event that we're producing or, you know, for our residential You know, we have a, what we do a, what we call a reveal when we complete a project, and it's a party basically .

Dan Ryan: For the, for the owner of the home or apartment.

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: Really?

Alexa d'Argence: It's a s- a really special thing and, You know, we're, we're an experience for them just the way that a restaurateur would be doing so for, for diners.

Um, and so, [00:17:00] you know, and again, we are f- for a residential client, we would be designing the candles, a logo for their home. we've, um, we've done the, like, in-flight for a private jet. You know, we're, we're considering the experience of living basically, whether it be a hospitality or residential project.

Dan Ryan: When you think about the grandeur of the Huntington Hotel or the work you're doing at the Beverly Hills Hotel, history supplies so much information into that story, into that narrative that you're trying to tell And I think the Huntington was closed for a very long time, wasn't It It was. like

Alexa d'Argence: Right from the beginning of COVID

Dan Ryan: Like, it was just closed. So the, in there, there's an opportunity to, for some real reinvention, but also, I don't know, honoring the history of the place, right? So I feel like you had a bit more of a clean slate to come up [00:18:00] with your story there. Whereas at the Beverly Hills Hotel, there's a certain level of expectation and history and just wow factor of it being the Beverly Hills Hotel.

How do you t- what-- Like what was the difference in how you addressed starting off at d- developing the story in both of those projects?

Alexa d'Argence: well, I thi-- so at the Beverly Hills Hotel, it's funny, it's about the same age as the Huntington. there is this beloved... In the way that Huntington is beloved, you know, by the residents of Nob Hill especially. But, Beverly Hills Hotel is beloved, um, the Polo Lounge, the coffee bar, just all these things that we would never touch.

so I... You know, Ken, um, has envisioned a new addition to this hotel, which hopefully will, will live, um, peacefully alongside the beloved parts and be there for an- the next 100 years. it [00:19:00] was-- The task was to imitate what already is there, uh, which- and which frankly has been repeated by many others, in different ways already.

So, uh, what new addition would be beloved t-to this hotel? And of course, working very closely with ownership and listening and, there's, there's people there every day. It's-- That hotel is operational, uh, throughout this renovation. So, you know, listening, people are us

Dan Ryan: So I, I work on so many projects and there's, especially with the ones where there's a, where brand and those pillars are, are heavily considered in telling that story. And I think over the past 10 years it's happened, there's been a greater emphasis on that, which I appreciate because it makes everything so much easier when trying to like get through approvals or, or figure out a nuance on anything.

When those, when that lens is very clearly [00:20:00] established, I find the cascading effect just makes for a much easier project. That being said, I don't think I've ever heard the word beloved come up in any of those projects before, and maybe it has been there, but that's a really strong word. How, how did you arrive at beloved?

Like what does that mean to you?

Alexa d'Argence: I, it's, it's what I bring to work every day, you know? This, this is a, a calling, a vocation for me. So there's a lot of love that goes into it. You know? This is a job where you are working long hours, and if you don't love it, um, you're gonna burn out. And so, uh, yeah, I bring that love and, uh, I think you, you find people.

Like love finds love, right? So, I've been lucky enough [00:21:00] to, uh, link up with these great projects

Dan Ryan: And for these amazing projects that you're working on, how do you think it's changed your delivery of hospitality through the built environment from those early beloved memories, I'm stealing your word from you, of the chickens down in Carmel, right? 'Cause that was part of your experience, and it's a beloved memory there.

But how... It's a much different experience, but I guess at the heart level it's the same, but you're working with just a lot more history. So how do you, how do you take that early impressionable memory from yourself and t- and walk it into these larger projects

Alexa d'Argence: Well, I'm not sure if this is exactly answering your question, but I think the thing that makes any project or experience good is, is not that different at the end of the day. you know, it's [00:22:00] sensory, it's a feeling of of um, ease, delight. You know, the surprise and delight with the chickens, you know, is, is just as valid as, as the surprise and delight of like an excellent turndown service.

and I w- and I will say, you know, I've had... There's been experiences in between. So, um, I think the first time I ever walked into a boutique hotel was one. It was The Clift in, in down- in downtown San Francisco, um, in its heyday, right?

Dan Ryan: When it was the... Four Seasons or after the conversion to Strayer

Alexa d'Argence: Park, um,

Dan Ryan: Oh my gosh, you have to listen. It just came out today, but I just interviewed Larry Traxler, who worked [00:23:00] on that for, um, for Addition and worked with Philippe Starck and just brought that all to life for Ian Schrager.

Alexa d'Argence: I

Dan Ryan: it was, it's

Alexa d'Argence: Uh, you know, I nerd out over this stuff. To me, I am a nerd about this stuff. Um, but as like a little girl who I guess weirdly had become very into hotels, to walk into... And who had been basically at Embassy Suites up until then, to walk in... No, no shade to Embassy Suites, but by the way. But, um, loving Embassy Suites, especially as a little girl.

um, to walk into a place where the lights were super dim and the music was loud, and there was this smell right as you walk off the street, and there was a chair that was, you know, there... I don't know if you've been, you remember or have been, but there was

Dan Ryan: Oh, yeah. You walk in there, the huge chair, and then the portraits of the, the people who were, like, just ver- like, on TVs or whatever the, the... It was, like, when flat [00:24:00] screens were kinda new-ish, and they just kinda w- were there It was a magical, magical place. But I think, I don't wanna take your story away from you, but what I appreciate so much about that project is, and this actually ties all back into the history that we're talking about, I think in that Redwood room in particular, they brought in some really incredible new takes on what that was, but left a lot of that paneling up.

And right around the same time, if you just go around the corner to the Westin St. Francis, they-- There was this place called The Compass Rose, I believe, and they had these giant I don't know if they, they were probably ionic columns, but they were redwood, the same type of red veneer. I don't know if they were so- they must've been solid 'cause they were scout.

But the, these giant red columns in the, in the lobby of just wood and stone and everything. But at some point they renovated that lobby, and they just painted over those beautiful red, uh, the redwood columns, and to me it was, [00:25:00] like, a very stark difference in how to treat history. But anyway, carry on from there.

Alexa d'Argence: Oh, you're absolutely right. I mean, part of the, the wonderful part of, of The Clift back then was this Starck interior, and then you walk into the Redwood Room. And so there's that contrast. Um, it's like when you go to Hotel Costes, you know, and there's the, the Jacques Garcia side and the Christian Liagre side.

I mean, it's very potent.

But, um, as a, as like a, you know, I think I was a teenager, I didn't realize that hotels could be that. And so, um, that was, like, my awakening probably. And I actually, I met Philippe Starck, um, a couple years back, and I got to tell him that, and he... In French, by the way.

Dan Ryan: Houck

Alexa d'Argence: you know. And so from then on, I think that's why I was, I... And I already sort of knew about interior design. I had an aunt who's an interior designer, so I [00:26:00] was sort of putting it together that way

Dan Ryan: Hmm. So you've already had a couple of bucket list projects under your belt, and you're still in the middle of the Beverly Hills Hotel. If you were to think about the future and other dream bucket list type projects, and you're already kind of two for two there, what's out there for you? 'Cause that's, you're batting very well

Alexa d'Argence: I mean, the projects that come through Ken Folk are, uh, to the company are the best you could ever hope for. So who knows? Like, it could be tomorrow. Um, mean, personally, the things that, you know, interest me in my personal life are, um, this sort of retreat-based model of hospitality.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Alexa d'Argence: [00:27:00] And I, um, would love one day to, to, you know... I don't know if you've heard, but like the, the zendo burned down in Tassajara. Like, I would love, I would love to help redesign the zendo. So something like that, like, um ... by the way, but, um, such is life. It's very zen, actually. but sacred architecture, the architecture of these sort of, places of reflection to me is very, very compelling.

and so I would love to do something in the, in that world at one point, and I'm sure I will

Dan Ryan: When we first started and I shared that just really magical moment for me just watching you sketch out some of these details, I think you mentioned that it was, you, you were actually, we were taking that slow mo- it's, it's actually really interesting. You were, we were taking that slow moment together of slowing down because we were short on time, right?

That s- that [00:28:00] schedule was always so intense, right? So what did you learn from slowing down, and how do you take that idea of slowing down to get the best possible outcome for any project or anything that you're doing?

Alexa d'Argence: there was, there was another element there at play, which is that we were together. And so I could have been doing the sketches on my own, but I was doing them with you.

And we took the time to do that, and it was 100 times more effective than me emailing you about my sketches.

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Alexa d'Argence: And so there's something there.

And, um, and memorable. There's something beautiful about the process if you're doing it right. You know, these napkin sketches and things are so compelling because they represent the, the essence of [00:29:00] something. And so, yeah, the process can be really beautiful, uh, if done right, I think are the lessons there.

You know, I'll, I'll never forget, I think one of the most ... I think about this all the time, and it has nothing to do with anything, but, I ... Contractors, you know, when they're doing the work, the best contractors, in my experience, keep a really clean job site. And the guts that you never see are beau- beautiful sometimes.

know, I'm thinking of, like, the underside of a house in Healdsburg that I was seeing built by, uh, Sol Amador was pristine. It was, like, the most beautiful basement you, you'll never see again. But anyways, someone showed me a photo of the contractors had placed a, a jar with one flower in the framing, like, in between some, [00:30:00] uh, studs.

They had made it a little shrine just for that moment, just for that day of construction, and then it was gonna get taken away and be covered up by drywall. I just think about that a lot. I don't know what it means.

Dan Ryan: But

Alexa d'Argence: beauty in that because the fact is the pub- getting published in AD is, is one month out of the year, and there were two and a half years before that, And so if you don't love it and treat it with this reverence and, and beauty, like, what are you doing?

Dan Ryan: I think on the, on that example of The Basement in Healdsburg, it's very resonant with me because just last week I was hosting a breakfast in New York during the NYU Lodging Conference, and an owner from a big developer, um, in New York City came over, and I was just listening to That person, who's a designer, um, [00:31:00] talked to other people on the ownership side of, of things and they were talking, they were kind of comparing notes on general contractors in New York City and they all shared that they love going to job sites and looking at the graffiti on the job sites or how clean it is.

And the, the projects with the most creative graffiti done in like a really nice way and also the cleanest ones showed a level of artistry and care that you normally wouldn't see and, and, and it, it's repeated. Those habits are repeated with the best general contractors that they work with in New York City in particular.

So again, I think there's something about whoever placed that flower on, in, in the, on those studs was taking a moment to create that shrine and create that pause so that, again, [00:32:00] slowing down a little bit and appreciating what's around you I think yields the best results. Which then leads me-- I know you mentioned like details and that flower in the basement that no one will ever see and it was probably dry walled up and you'd probably never see where that was, right?

As you think about the h- um, a- as you think about Huntington and all the details that went into that project and we'll have photos of it and links to it in the, in the show notes What's a detail that you wish made it into the Architectural Digest spread?

Alexa d'Argence: Oh, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not here to question Architectural Digest.

Dan Ryan: Well, it could be something that also that perhaps, I know you mentioned like a beautiful turndown service. They're not necessarily gonna show that, right? I mean, you might see a made bed, but there's all these other elements from the guest perspective that might not make it into Architectural Digest. I haven't seen the spread yet, [00:33:00] so I, I'm speaking a little blindly.

But I find oftentimes Ar- Architectural Digest.

especially in the hospitality space, they're just showing the space. They're not necess- so they're not necessarily showing the humans that are experiencing the space. I don't know if that's true in this spread.

Alexa d'Argence: I mean, I will say I've stood in the lobby of that hotel for many hours, and to watch the residents of Nob Hill and San Francisco walk in, uh, peek their heads because they walked by it for f-five plus years now with of it being closed, and to finally see that it's open and that they have their space back, and to say, "Oh, we used to come in here all the time," um, and, "We were regulars," just that there is a, like an ownership and a, and a, like, um, communal feeling that is, that is there that you could never capture.

Um, but people feel like they [00:34:00] have this space back, and that it's like a part of San Francisco which is breathing again. a, there's a guest book on the coffee table that people have come in and, and been signing because it's so much, I hate to use the word beloved again, but it's

Dan Ryan: No, use it, please.

Alexa d'Argence: Are happy

Dan Ryan: I think we all need to use that more, that word more because to really assign that word to anything, to anything, I think you really also, it comes back.

to taking a pause and, like, checking in with your heart and be like, "Is this beloved? Does it make a..." Like, beloved is almost a really cool threshold to just make sure that you're slow and in, in touch with the universe

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah, and I think if there's a, if there's a real reason a project, then it's, it's because people have-- They, they're making memories there. And so, yeah. You know, I, I, I remember working on the Flamingo Hotel up in Santa Rosa. I did that with, um... When I was at BAR. [00:35:00] Um, that was with Point Hospitality and, and Palm House, um, Hospitality.

And, um, you know, people... I-- This, this just happens with these projects is people who hear about it come and tell you their memories of that place. And they s- and they say, you know, sort of, usually if it's a renovation, "Please don't change it." Like, "Please let us still have this thing, and hopefully you're just making it better."

So people would come tell us about the Easter brunches and the dance classes that they would, would attend at The Flamingo, and ask if that was coming back. And, um, it very much did, a-and even better. You know? So, um I don't know. There's something about the memories that... uh, renovations are really special for that reason, first of all.

You know, they're, they're so challenging some ways. [00:36:00] Um, but usually the place is being renovated, it's, it's been pretty loved. So, and, and you get hopefully the chance to not fuck it up.

Hey everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, BermanFalk Hospitality Group, is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Dan Ryan: Hmm. Yeah. Um, I want to go back to the sketching thing, 'cause I'm just trying to think of why that doesn't happen very much for me anymore. And perhaps it, maybe it's because a lot of people don't draw on paper as much, and I, I, and maybe ev- I have to kind of wait for the, the image that's done on a computer to get to me.

But you have a [00:37:00] skill at at drawing. And, and I think a drawing gets so much more across than a lot-- like a, a plotted line drawing from AutoCAD or whatever, whatever tool you're using. When you're concepting a project in the beginning, and let's say you're in a room with clients, do you get the opportunity to sketch something in front of a client that helps them perhaps see something that maybe they didn't see earlier?

Alexa d'Argence: Oh, sure. I mean, you know, these... We have so many meetings nowadays.

Dan Ryan: No

Alexa d'Argence: So, you know, on Zoom you can sketch and, um, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of ways to present ideas, we- more than ever before. um, there's so much collaboration during the process, and give and take, and, um, yeah, I think, you know, we're just at this [00:38:00] place in design where we have endless amount of tools, And so what, which is the tool that you make, you will use to be the most effective, right? Like my sketch maybe wasn't the most detailed, but it gave the sense, the feeling. so being, being discerning in, in which tools you're using. you know, like for instance, renderings are something we always...

Renderings are just a thing and they, they're, they're here to stay, and how are you showing something? You could be showing it in a super photorealistic way, or you could be showing it in a sketchy way, which maybe communicates a feeling better. th- they're, they have pros and cons, both of them.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Alexa d'Argence: Um, I think everybody wants those photorealistic ones nowadays, but, I don't know if they show the soul always,

Dan Ryan: I don't think, I don't-- and many times, sometimes they do. Sometimes they're striking and they [00:39:00] do. But on all of-- I, I would say on almost all of them, if you're really honing in on a detail and how that is done, like down low, up high, there's a bit of magic and lack of gravity, like actual gravity of how these things actually function and tie together.

And the, a lot of these renderings miss out on that, I find

Alexa d'Argence: You know, I, I l- I love how we use concept imagery and, and, and sort of look and feel more

to sort of paint that feeling you get versus... I mean, we do both, don't get me wrong. But, I think that's just as valid

Dan Ryan: I, I had a note in here from our ear- uh, from an earlier conversation. I don't remember when exactly, but my wife's name is also Alexa, and she loves puzzling, and you love puzzling. So what is it...

Alexa d'Argence: on. sorry.

Dan Ryan: No way. What, what kind is that? [00:40:00] Oh, great

Alexa d'Argence: puzzle right here in front of

Dan Ryan: Yeah. So she is always doing a puzzle, and it helps quiet her mind and slow down, right?

I think this is a theme that's coming up a lot. Um, what do you love about puzzling?

Alexa d'Argence: Oh my gosh. Um, well, there's a, there's a finished product. There's like a right and a wrong, and you know when you're done. What could be more satisfying? And

Dan Ryan: like, your career in d- in design?

Alexa d'Argence: You know, I feel when, when-- I can't stand when, when I'm saying, you know, I don't care or it d- it could be any of these things. When there's a real justification and a reason for a decision, I love that. Um, it means you've done all this stuff up until then [00:41:00] right.

Dan Ryan: No, it makes total sense. So then this, I-- Okay, so now I have a two-part question. Number one, what's the most difficult puzzle, actual puzzle that came out of a box that you've ever worked on? Number one. Number two, if you were to look at a project What was the most difficult puzzle of a project that you've worked on?

And again, there's a beginning, a middle, and an end, and there's a right and a wrong. So what's the hardest actual puzzle that you've worked on, and what's the har- what's, what was the most satisfying puzzle of a project you've worked on? As, not, not so much in the outcome, but as far as, like, all the different pieces and getting them to work together

Alexa d'Argence: Oh my gosh. I mean, this feels like a, a, a invitation for me to brag.

Dan Ryan: Yes, please.

Alexa d'Argence: No, no, no, I'm not,

Dan Ryan: you

Alexa d'Argence: not going to.

Dan Ryan: To.

Alexa d'Argence: I, I think that there was a... It was like a round puzzle I did

where everything was round, and that made it very hard, and it was all kind of one color or something. Um, so

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow. So wait, each of the [00:42:00] individual pieces were round-ish. They

Alexa d'Argence: They're sort of rounded, yeah.

And then, um,

Dan Ryan: And it was all one color.

Alexa d'Argence: yeah, it

Dan Ryan: What color was, it

Alexa d'Argence: like oranges. that was pretty hard.

Dan Ryan: Wow

Alexa d'Argence: But you get, you dev- uh, you develop a system. There's always a system.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. And the, the few times that I do puzzles, 'cause there's always puzzles going on, I get into the ... You know what, actually? It's that similar feeling of me watching you dr- like, draw, and that kind of peaceful feeling I felt, that when I get into a puzzle in that system and you start seeing the matrix and things start organizing and it starts getting done, like that's a magical place

Alexa d'Argence: Hmm. I agree. agree. That's the best feeling. Yeah. Uh, you know, as for projects, I, you know, I think they all have challenges, but we've gotten through them all. So like those sort of like, um, [00:43:00] design, uh, competitions and things that I've done from time to time in the past where, you know, there's very few restrictions and it's kind of like, "Do what you want."

Tho- those like white box challenges I, I think are very difficult because you're not re- it's hard... You're not really reacting to anything. Um, but I don't know, it's hard to say. I think, you know, we've gotten this far, Dan, so

Dan Ryan: Yeah. And if you go on vacation, are you bringing a puzzle with you?

Alexa d'Argence: Well, or there's a puzzle there.

Dan Ryan: I'm always leery of do- of s- ever starting a puzzle somewhere else unless it's in a sealed box because I don't wanna g- I don't wanna get through it and have there be a missing piece

and I would rather not even start

Alexa d'Argence: Hey, but guess what? Life, life has some missing pieces, Dan. You gotta be okay with the missing pieces.

Dan Ryan: True. But I want that

Alexa d'Argence: done puzzles, I've done puzzles with missing [00:44:00] pieces at the end that were new out of the box, just so

Dan Ryan: Oh, really?

Alexa d'Argence: How or why it happened, but, so, you know, that's life.

Dan Ryan: True. I think, uh, there's a lot of learning in this conversation that we could take away from this in current events in my life.

in particular. so you've had this awesome career from Ithaca to Marin to San Francisco. As you look at the projects that you've worked on, the, the clients that you've worked with, um, the general contractors, the vendors, like all the things that help you finish those puzzles of projects, um, what's exciting you most as you look to the future?

Alexa d'Argence: Well, um, you know, we, we haven't really gotten to talk about this yet, but I am just very passionate about, uh, being of service, mentorship, bringing up the next generation of designers. You know, we have this vibrant [00:45:00] office and so much opportunity to from each other. And so, um, just excited for, um, where, where our office is going, uh, mentoring the, the younger staff, being of service to them, sort of this, Yeah, I think I've, I've achieved...

I'm very happy with where I am. And so now I just want to, Be, be of service

Dan Ryan: Hmm

Alexa d'Argence: and just c- continue to give back, 'cause I've been given a lot.

and it's-

Dan Ryan: actually, that's a gr- uh, I'm gonna pause you there because we all don't just arrive at where we are, right? There's a lot of people that mentor, impact, guide, sometimes even shut doors on us that get us to where we are at this moment. When I bump into Ken and I ask him what's the f- what's his most favorite thing about Alexa, [00:46:00] what would he say?

Alexa d'Argence: Oh my gosh. Who's Alexa?

Dan Ryan: You.

Alexa d'Argence: I'm just kidding.

Dan Ryan: Not my wife, you

Alexa d'Argence: Um, I, I, I will not answer. I'm not gonna answer that question, but, um, I would say it's, it's just, it's a pleasure to work with him. He is like the Willy Wonka of the design world. He is... He just, he's, what he has created, what he has created is, is so inspiring. Um, he's...

Yeah, if Willy Wonka wore a Tom Brown suit, right? Uh, um, it's a pleasure to learn from him. And everybody, like, uh, such talented people across all these different, um... What is the word?

Dan Ryan: Verticals

Alexa d'Argence: we, we do a lot of different things, um, in, at, at our company. And it's just a real pleasure to get to work with s- like, the most talented group of people.

Um, and so just coming to work is, [00:47:00] is just super fun.

Dan Ryan: if you, if you don't know what he would say about you, what's one thing since working with him that changed your perspective on things?

Alexa d'Argence: Well, I mean, Ken is-- his superpower is, um, bringing people together and, and his sort of charisma. Um, and that's pretty inspiring. You know, you don't have to... what he's built is amazing, but he's done it with this group of people and by asking for help and sort of hiring the best and, and finding the best.

Um, so you don't have to do it alone. There's amazing people out there who are excited to work with you and do their best. Um, and it's just such a gift to be able to find the best faux painter, find the best woodworker, and give them a platform to do their art. I mean, it's just a privilege, frankly. Um, and of course, like [00:48:00] ownership, giving us the, you know, trust and placing these projects in our hands to then deliver to the public who then get to use it.

Like, wow, what a, what a privilege.

Dan Ryan: So last question In, I would think one of the things that perhaps that, and I have to look at the Architectural Digest spread now. I didn't actually even realize it was in there until you said that, so shame on me. You mentioned how important when you walked into the Clift Hotel, the s- that the scent was.

And I find that scent is a, is one of the more important sensory elements that from what I've read, and also I can speak from my own experience, it almost provides a timestamp in our memories, right? It's, it, it cr- chronological, um, memory. Like you can get right back in that Prostian kind of time machine back into your life, uh, from [00:49:00] that moment.

How, uh, for The Huntington in particular, were you involved in picking the scent? Like what kind of... I'm just very fascinated by that. How do you, how do you tie the built environment into that olfactory space?

Alexa d'Argence: Well, we have Kenfo candles for sale in the lobby, so

Dan Ryan: so

so did you pick one of those? Or, 'cause I, so many things hotels,

Alexa d'Argence: doing...

Dan Ryan: branded scent

Alexa d'Argence: Yes, we're doing a retail pop-up there. So they, yeah, they have our Canful candles. But yeah, um, yeah, actually for a home in, in Montana right now, I am helping to develop the scent, um, for that home, just like it would be, you know, for a lobby. So, you know, that's, that's what I'm saying is hospitality and residential, they, bleed into each other

Dan Ryan: And when you're coming up with that scent, like obviously you have the pillars of what you're trying to convey in this place. There's the, the feeling and all of these things. [00:50:00] Whoever that scent provider is, or I don't even know what you call, olfactory designer? Brand, scent, branded scent designer? Um, do they bring those adjectives to each of those smells to you or are you, is it just kind of like, how do you narrow down the choice?

'Cause there's so many.

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah, I think you, you know, uh, it's again coming back to the concept. you do a, a strong, if you have a strong concept, you could give it to any vendor and they'll get it for whatever they're doing, whether it be the scent, the uniform, the menu, the, The furniture. yeah, furniture. So, um, it just all comes back to the story

Dan Ryan: Well, I love the stories that I've experienced that you and your teams have worked on from the retail and the limited hospitality that I've seen and experienced. I've loved my experience of working with you, and I really appreciate this conversation and [00:51:00] all the other conversations that we've had offline.

Alexa d'Argence: Yeah

Dan Ryan: I appreciate you and I thank you for being here. If people wanted to learn more about you or KFI, and I'll also put a link to the, the book in the, in the show notes, but what's a good way for them to get in touch or learn more?

Alexa d'Argence: me on LinkedIn, uh, Alexa Daraghaei. My Instagram is pretty unhinged, but you, you can f- you can follow me there. Um, and-- or just come by. You know, we have, we have our retail stores in the city and, uh, in San Francisco and LA and yeah, let's hang out

Dan Ryan: Great. Well, I'm there often, so I will definitely reach out the next time I'm there. And thank you, I appreciate you, so much

Alexa d'Argence: I appreciate you, Dan. Thank you

Dan Ryan: And Thank you to all of our listeners and watchers and all the things and readers. I forgot about the readers. Um, if this helped change your perspective on hospitality or [00:52:00] hospitality design or made you curious to experience some of these movies in action, plea- please forward this to someone else who could benefit from it or that might change their mind on it.

We look forward to all of these conversations. And without you, the listeners, we wouldn't be here having these wonderful, informative, and I don't know, just conversations that I get to learn so much from. So thank you all, and we'll catch you next time.