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The Try Tank Podcast is about innovation and the church
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: From Try Tank Experimental Laboratory. This
is the Try Tank Podcast where we talk
about all things related to innovation in
the church. I'm Father Lorenz Labrija.
Thank you for joining us.
Hello, friends, and welcome to the Try Tank
Podcast. This is episode
23 on
Garden Church. Now this is a unique episode
in that it's not even going to sound, that it's not
going to be the best sound. I promise that. I tried my best,
but I was in England recently making a,
uh, visit to do some work there and I
happened to have the opportunity to talk to the Reverend Dave
Lloyd, who leads this work. And
I basically recorded our conversation and that's
what you were about to hear. And part of it was in his kitchen and
part of it was in his car. But I think that there's a
lot here because. Well, well, let me tell you a little bit about
the Reverend Dave Lloyd. Dave's, uh, a mission development
officer for the Diocese of Norwich. And
more importantly to our point, he's the leader of the
Garden Church Network. The Garden
Church Network is basically, I think there are 18
of them now, if I'm recalling correctly. They're
congregations that are lay started and
lay led. So it's just
really interesting how they do that and what they're doing. These are people
that would never set foot in
anywhere close to a church. So all of a
sudden these missional communities are starting up
where these people can get together and
actually share information about each other, about
scripture. Uh, but what they're actually doing is they're
discipling each other and they're becoming Christians.
So this little family of missional communities is doing
great work and I think you'll enjoy the conversation. I hope
that the sound is not too disturbing. Um, let me tell you a
little bit about Dave. He's got a doctorate in church
planning in post Christendom Europe
by Asbury Theological Seminary. He's married to
Anna and has two Nate, two teenage children,
Zach and Georgia. I was at their home and had
a great opportunity to have dinner with them all. They're great.
He loves any adventure on the sea, whether that is
wakeboarding, sailing, fishing or swimming.
He loves music, and this is true. He is a
jazz slash gospel slash
salsa slash folk trumpeter
player. He, he plays a trumpet and he just
like does really cool stuff with it. And
in a lot of the, the gatherings that he does of the, when
they do music, he's out there playing. Um,
he studied theology at Oxford University as an
undergraduate in 1998 and then went on to Study
and train as a lawyer in London.
You know, we all have all. What is it, what's that old saying,
all saints, uh, have a past. Right.
And all sinners have a future. So uh,
he felt a call to the priesthood in the year
2008. He also of course enjoys the
entrepreneurial edge of ministry which is why he's able to do this
sort of work. And so by the grace of God as he
says, he has planted the Church of England Free
School on an estate in London which is
a resource church in Norwich City and he
helped revitalize a number of satellite churches from
it. In 2019 is when
he began to experience this call to
leave normal stipendiary ministry to develop lay
led missional communities in the rural parts
of Norfolk. And that's sort of his
co vocational role. There's now 18 of them. I
was right, there are 18 of them. These lay led garden
church communities around the county
and they're just doing really fun stuff. So I hope you enjoy
the conversation. Uh, again I wish I could have done better on
sound, but you'll forgive me once you get
the wisdom that is in it. Enjoy the
conversation.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: I answered your question. I can't, I can't remember why
I was there for them. Um, reason that was
like, felt really meaningful. There was a.
What was said forward.
Oh, uh, they were talking about um,
something that's really good for forming
community. They talk about
liminality and communitas
as this, as this main driver for mission
and growth which means
to take people into a
liminal space, to go into, on a journey
into something unknowable, um,
and to forge community in that space. This is a bit
wildernessy. So we go and do
myriad as a cohort. We
don't know really what it is
but we're leading it at the same time.
And out of it we
actually all arrive stronger because we've all had
quite uh, a fun adventure
and that. Chris. So we all
go to a barn in some lesson to try and put
on a thing and liminality and
communitas, a dynamic community.
But moving into um, the unknowable space
is something that a lot of churches don't do. They tend to
provide no ability.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Yeah.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Sunday, 10 o'clock we'll be doing this.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And it's going to follow the exact same format as it has
for year. Yeah, for years, centuries.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: You never go anywhere as a community.
Whereas the moment.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So are you saying that the key to the garden is having
everyone else.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Road trips out of everyone's comfort
zone? Together
and. But we're embracing the unknowability the
whole time. So even in your own house, you don't quite
know who's going to turn up.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Doesn't that in some ways make
it.
I'm trying to get my, my, my, um,
my own brain around this. It's for a lot of people,
church is comfortable, is comfort food. Yeah, it's the.
And you're saying our version of
church wants to take you a little bit outside of your
own comfort?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Well, I think the idol of
society today is, is
comfort and security. We can't get enough of
it. Like everything's insured,
everything. I want to know that I have a job in two
and a half years time when my contract finishes, I want
to I. That this is what I need.
And whereas if
we. So the primacy of
human agency is often like our big thing.
So I've made God's really good, but
I also need to take hold of my own
life and sort everything out. And so
if Jesus is the high priest of his church,
then you gotta put yourself in a position where you really
find out if that's true or not. And you.
Which M is a garden begun? Actually probably just playing
chicken with the whole concept of if I don't have a building, I don't
have money and I don't have people, does God still
move? Does anything happen?
Or did I need, uh, a big budget
and awesome paid
employed staff and a great vision
plan and really excellent leadership and management
skills, or does he just do
stuff because he's God and you
end up scoring a goal only because you
were facing the wrong way and the ball rebounded off the back of your head
and you're like, what did I say? Which way did it
go? Oh, I went to the right.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: I meant to do that all along.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Oh, wow. Okay.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So is it your
thinking that if somebody, even if someone is a
controlling person, if they were just to
sort of let go of that,
even if it's just during the time that they're
together at a garden, that that
would benefit them, that the Holy Spirit would still
move in their lives or even if it's scary.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, I think it would be. I mean, everybody
needs to be. So the comfort is love. The
comfort is the dynamic
community. So you're not creating. It's a
different kind of safety and security. So the safety and
security is, I think, a loving
family who understand and accept each other. So someone
being able to say, this is really scary for me because I love
things to be controlled. We've Got
you. But at the same time,
there's a openness to. If we're going to
be a missional community, we always need to be ready
to welcome someone we've never met before,
whilst also carrying on doing what
we do as Christians. So we're going to
read some scripture, we're going to pray together, we're going
to share food and do life. And
we will need to be vulnerable to some degree in that
space. Not more than you want to share, but
it's this dynamic where I think
Celtic, uh, I mean, I wasn't there back in the
first few centuries.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: You weren't?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: No, but I'm going a
bit. Great. But the Celtic
communities, you got this sense of
radical hospitality as well as a kind
of core, a sense of movement. So
moving to other places, taking new ground,
but also having this hard
core of just knowing who they were in
crust, wherever they ended up being. And it
wasn't dependent on the
space or the building or the. You know,
St. Aiden just walked, didn't he? And talked to
people about Jesus and followed where they were going
and invited them on the journey.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So what would you say then?
What's at the core of a garden
community?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: So the five values,
really, which kind of tried to resonate with Acts
2:42 to 46,
which are, um, d L E S S. To
do less.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: If you take anything away from this conversation
is that you need to do.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Less, do less, do less to become.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: More, do less and let the Holy Spirit
sort of take.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, it's creating space. It just means
that. So it's devoted worshippers.
There's a little word in Acts 2:42 where it says
they were devoted to the apostles teaching.
And that, uh, word feels is significant
because it's a posture of the heart
and devoted worshipers. That
means wherever, whenever, however, with whoever, whatever
you have in your hands, you can worship.
So, um,
we worship in our home. Someone
can call out a tune on
Spotify or whatever and. Or people
can. We can have 10 people arriving with instruments
and whichever one, as long as
it's.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: That's the.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: From the heart, we'll do.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: I have no ability. Again, will instruments show up or
will Spotify be your.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: You only know what the worship's going to be about five minutes before
it happens because you're looking around the room
thinking, who's gravitated towards one of the instruments in
the house or. Or who's brought something
or not brought something, or is there a child
talking about a song that they've been listening to
recently? Maybe they're the one to lead us in
worship.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So you would bring in Taylor Swift?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: No, not necessarily Taylor Swift, but I mean,
we've listened to a few songs that you
wouldn't necessarily. It's more like desert island discs
where someone explains what significant. So it could be
testimony. Like, this is what's going on in my life. I've
been listening to this song. Um, and then that's the starting
point.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Like, that's really interesting. As long as the song's not kind of
full of swear words. I'm like, oh,
okay.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So that happened.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, that hasn't happened to
us so far.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So that's the devoted worshipper.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah. So ideally it would be a, uh, song.
Well, not more than ideally. It's a song giving
glory to God. But we've listened to and we
have a playlist that we actually ended up creating of all
the songs that people have brought. And it ranges from
a kind of Nigerian
gospel party song, um, that gives
praise to God, to, um, hip
hop, uh, that some of the Christian hip hop
that the kids listen to on the way to school and
school in the car that gives them like,
powers them up.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: To contemplative. Um, you
know, really, it. It's the whole range.
The whole range.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: All right, so that's the D. Oh, yeah.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: L is loving family. So time spent
growing together as a community is never time wasted.
So we share food.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: It's.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: If family is a theme that runs all the way through
scripture, I. More than
I thought. The more I looked at
just how God is community.
God is loving community in himself.
And then, um,
even. Yeah. The word
redemption, uh, I think that looking at the roots of it
is about the kind of
kinship and family in there as
well. So this hint of
family the whole way through and then you've got the
Koinonia. Ah. As the kind of fruit
of Pentecost. Yes, they spoken tongues and amazing things
happen. But actually the
aftermath, you find that they. This word
is used of this radical
self giving relationship and devotion,
not just to teaching, but to each other. When they share their
positions. A casual kind of, hey
now, the spirit's come. Um, this isn't mine anymore.
This is ours. This is yours. Seems a
really significant foundation to build a church
on. So if that's not there, I
don't think there's much point in building it.
You know, you can put on a great service, but if there's no
family, I don't think it's the kind of building
block that
Jesus seems to spend a lot of time
trying to create with the disciples.
Um, it's a loving, family, equipped disciple
makers.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: It's not very catchy, but it's the.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So tell me, what does that one entail?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: That's to equip each other. So that's
conversational. I think that's, that's. You've
read scripture, you're worshiping
together, you're exploring what
that means for your everyday life
and you're helping each other. So you might have someone who's a business
owner, you might have someone who's a teacher. Uh, you might have someone
who is looking for a job at the moment,
struggling in lots of ways and putting them all
together to work out how to do Christian
life in practice in their different settings, I
think I find amazing. I think it's better than a
sermon. Quite often it's just which might hit, might
not. It's actually, um,
working stuff out together.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And the word is,
you don't say equip disciples, you say equip
disciple makers.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Yeah.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Ah, because there's a kind of fruitfulness
written into the whole process of, you know, disciples
make disciples, you make disciples, you make disciples.
And so, yes, it's
equipping disciples to live their life,
but with, uh, hope. And
I suppose the focus of how is that life then
invitational as well. So it's not just
therapy coping with the day, it's also
fruitfulness and
therapy.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And it could just be as simple as asking someone, can I pray for you?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: In their day to day lives. And
I'm guessing the equipping part, just by virtue
of what the garden is, is not a formal program
like we are now on step three of equipping you as
disciple makers.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: No, though we did create a resource and we want to create
more. It's called 72. There's a little book clip.
And we're trying to explore how, um,
how you could release the
72 to go and share
the gospel today in towns and
villages in a fairly
contemplative way. So it seemed
to me that. So how did, how does garden do
evangelism? And so we have groups of
fizzy, excitable people who will go on the
street and just pray for people
and talk to them. And then we have a whole load of other
people who had run in the opposite direction to those
people, even.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: If they're in the same garden.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: No, no, I know. Yeah. And
so 72 was a way of
identifying, uh,
a sort of. How could you. So
72 days of journaling. So what?
10 weeks of journaling and they say, psychologists
say it takes 66 days or something to learn a
new habit. So the idea is that over 72
days without really noticing, you would
gradually form a new habit which is
to notice the work of the Spirit
in your everyday life and to
jot that down and then to follow
up and see. Oh, um, three weeks
ago I met this person who asked me a question
on the train and I don't
know, I jotted it down because it seemed like a God
moment. And then three weeks later
I just met this person again and then they're asking
this question and uh, I don't know, it might form a kind of
pattern which could in the end
help you share the gospel or lead someone to
Christ or even plant a church. It's kind
of we forget what God is
doing and we become
less aware of the work of the Spirit.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So it's a little bit about becoming a little more
intentional about the work of God in our lives. Yeah,
okay, I can see that. So we have devoted
worshippers, loving, family equipped disciple
makers. M. We're
getting to the less part.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Very failed missionaries.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: What's that one like?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Um, really Jesus is the high
priest of his church. His
Spirit leads us. And
we want mission is looking
to see what God's doing and joining in.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Which your slogan is for
here, uh, in Norfolk as it is in
heaven.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, yeah. So really there is
no plan other than to see what God is
doing and joining. So spirit filled missionings is the
ultimate flexibility as to
what God might be calling us to do.
My experience of that is just
connections, openings, strange
doors that pop open with through
people where you get a sense that God is
doing something uh, which I guess is.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: It's also probably a little bit related to becoming more
aware of the work of God in the Spirit. It might be happening
now to many people.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And they're just not aware of it that it's happening because they don't have the
intentionality of. Yeah, wait, that's unusual. That was
a God, what would you call it? A God moment.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Edifying.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: It is the moment, you name
it as a value then you're just a bit
more aware of thinking ah, uh, what's
if mission is not. It's not mine, it's
God's, It's. I participate in
the divine nature as it says in 2
Peter 1. I join in with what God is doing,
then what are you doing God? And um, then
you become more aware of his presence
around and the surprising connections and
the interesting
way things unfold.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And it could look. I'm guessing it does look different
in every setting, in every one of the gardens that you
have that are out there, not that you have that the church
has, uh, look different than and feel
different because of that.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, totally different. So there isn't one big
plan, you know, as in, we're not all.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: I notice you keep saying that.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Well, and for one garden, they. They've
got really into inviting their whole community
for a barbecue. Okay. Um,
and, you know, they. Then they're getting. I
went over there actually, and I just. To their house, and
I noticed the neighborhood came out of her
house opposite, and she was just chatting away. And, you know,
in Britain, that's maybe not that normal. Like,
oh, my neighbor's talking to me.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Um, what did I do wrong?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah. And it's not about the fence that's fallen
down or. Yeah. So I just got this
sense that they've broken down quite a lot of boundaries
and building community in their entire kind of
housing estate, which is really exciting.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Um, and the fifth one.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Fifth one is suffering sojourners.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Suffering sojourners.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: All right.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Tell me what that one means, because it doesn't sound fun.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: It doesn't sound fun. It's a sort of, um.
Yeah, we don't go looking for suffering. And
it's. It's a big one. There's probably another way of expressing it,
but you do find it doesn't always
end well for everybody. In the Gospels in.
You do see, suffering is a part of
life or in the Christian journey.
And we thought we should put it in because
we are citizens of heaven. We're just passing through.
We're pilgrims. Uh, we're not
making our home here. Um, we want to
stay M. It's very
easy to build church in your own
image or to make it comfortable for you, make
it work for you and so on. And I think there's a
challenge continually to, you know,
what does God want? What is he calling us into?
It might not be comfortable. It might not be easy. It might not
be. Might not even be fun. But
it is a thing he's calling us to, you know, to carry our cross and
to overcome in a situation,
to be joyful in any situation, to be
grateful. Um, this character
peace. I think we need to name,
um, a part of it. It's so easy
to. When you're leaving church, to
listen to every single email that might come through
saying, oh, I'm so sorry that didn't work for you. I'm so
sorry that you were uncomfortable or
that let's choose the right chairs and spend
a year doing it and so on.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: I think also partly is a lot
of times people have the
wrong impression that, well, if I just become a Christian or if
I join, then everything's going to be fine. Right. I pray
and every illness will go away. It says in
the scripture that Jesus.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Healed, so obviously I will be healed.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And every problem will go away.
Uh, and I think this is just naming the reality that that's.
No, they're still suffering. There's still. Just because
we are following Jesus, we're trying to be the
image of Jesus in the world, does not mean that everything.
We'll recall how his story ended. If we
were the image of Jesus.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Like, um, yeah, that was.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: That ended in a cross. And of course, after that came the resurrection. I'm not
saying that was the end end, but, uh, his human
end.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Was that.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So naming it that. That's a real part.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Cancer's still going to happen.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. C.S.
lewis said something around the.
Completely butchered the quote, but it was around. You know,
there's no guarantee of that. Everything's going to be okay
in Christian faith, but God gives us the peace to be able to
endure the suffering on the journey.
So, yes, um,
it's an awareness thing of
this. Hard times will come.
It may attract persecution. It may attract. Not
real persecution. In the west, we don't have that,
but difficulties. Um, you may
be people look at you in an odd way at
work because you put your hand up and say, oh, I
actually am a Christian and I live
differently.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And, um, so,
yeah, my values are different. And. And, yeah,
sometimes that itself is kind of. Can be.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: It could be lonely. It could be. Yeah. I
mean, taking a risk in a way is stepping
out.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: We need to catch a.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: We need to catch a train.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: We need to continue this in the car. All right, so
we've moved to the car because I've got to catch a train,
because that's just how life is.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Are those neighbors?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Oh, okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Some neighbors. Oh, nice. Yeah, they
have a lovely home there. Uh, yeah, it's
a collection of old barns here.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Yeah. Ah. All right, so
we talked about the five valleys. So let's just say, for
example, that. Oh, look, that was
the ancient shirt. Yeah.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: 12Th century, ruined.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Yeah. No longer a church. Well, it is a church.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: No, it is, um, it's still consecrated. So you still
do services there?
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Well, yeah. You just really don't let go, do you?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: There's another room down here. Okay. And then there's another
church over there. It says four within one
mile.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Wow. I'm guessing people didn't walk
that far back then.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: I have no idea.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: You could die before between the walks.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So imagine that someone would
be listening and it's. And they're like, okay, I'm
far away from England. But
this, this, these five values sound
really cool. I want to do something. I want to
start. How would they do it?
Like, if you. There's a. There's a
David, there's a Dave somewhere out there
in, you know, South America that listen,
that's like, I want to start my own. How would you tell them
to do it?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Um, I
would encourage them
first of all to pray and gather people around
them. Hopefully they know a few other
Christians and build a kind
of nucleus community to build a fizzy
group of people who they just really enjoy
being with and doing life with.
And there's no rush just to practice
finding your rhythm of meeting every
week and embodying those
values and interpreting them.
So there are five values. There
are a number of practices
just to try and practice those values.
So I don't know, loving family, share food together.
Devoted worshiper. Find a.
Find passages of a reading plan of scripture,
maybe discovery, Bible study or something where
you don't have to think too hard about,
um, when you meet together, you just commit to, like a rule of
life. We're going to just press this button and read
what's in front of us and, uh, ask questions and explore.
So trying to keep it really simple.
But the main thing is the creative
consistency that you reorientate your life
around meetings. So when we begun, we just declare
Tuesday night. And I see this not
working with lots of people because they do. Well, this week's going to be
Tuesday. Next week, if I've got time, it would be Thursday.
Actually, I'm away on. So maybe we'll do
Wednesday. I mean, that could work. But honestly, keeping that
up for four or five years probably will
fizzle before then. So we just said
Tuesday night is church. And,
um, we. But to make it sustainable,
we all was. We created WhatsApp group.
We began with four or five people
and we just practiced so I didn't have
to prepare. Think, oh, what are we going to read today?
What? Just, uh, click on the button
and get your daily reading, ask
questions, pray,
practice worship, and see how it goes.
Have you got children? Have they walked out of the room and
got bored? Like, this doesn't work.
And, um, we tried lots of different things. I mean, I. To
read Scripture together as a family. When my kids were
smaller, I ended up, uh, printing off a passage
of scripture and just chopping it up into lots of bits
and then making the kids. They had to reassemble it
like a jigsaw puzzle.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Oh, okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: And in doing that, we read the passage when they stuck it
all back together, and that just kept
their attention and kept them in the room. And
then actually they started to get used to.
This is what we do as a family. This is.
There's a sort of, um. There's something bigger going on
than just, um,
reading a passage. There's about being in the
room together as a family and putting away
your phones and sharing food. It's almost like,
you know, doing. Doing Sabbath together.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay. Um, so you do that for a while with
your core nucleus group, as you call it.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah. And always stay open. So this very filled
missionary part, you might think, well, we're not really doing anything. We should
go out and get busy and
go and feed the homeless or do something. Do something.
Could be great.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: No, do less.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Do less and expect more of
God. So you're praying,
you're doing all the basics
that are there. In Book of Acts, we get the
snapshot of the early church, and they were sharing
stuff. They were expecting and seeing
wonders. They were praying, they were reading scriptures
together, they were loving each other. And it says, and the Lord
added to their number daily those who are being saved. And it's like,
but how. You know, they went to the temple courts,
which, I mean, depending on your interpretation, is
the market square or the place where people were and stuff
happened. And they're making connections the whole time.
Um, so they're doing their lives. They were going to work, they were
going out to places. But
somehow the vine grew, the
overlapping networks, things just
happened. And that has been my experience, is
that you do the basics
and carry on. And. And
then God starts adding
people, people with interesting stories,
people who have fallen, um,
off church, people who never have
come to church before, people who are asking
questions, dissatisfied with church.
Yeah, they just, it.
It's just realizing that God's at work behind loads and loads of
closed doors, and he
might want to open one of those doors today as you go
out, having prayed, worship, and, um,
placed him back at the center of your life in a
very simple way, which.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: I think there's something. And one of the things that
was mentioned, that the training was about doing prayer walking as
well around your community. But one of the things
that I think you just sort of said,
but to name it, Is that
behind the work of the garden there really is a
reliance on God and God's spirit to do
the work. It's not, I think you've told
me more times
than might realize that there is no plan for the
garden. You know, it's just there might be a little vision
of what it could, might look like in the future, whatnot. But
yeah, day to day, sort of the.
It's trusting that God and that you're following the
Spirit and in this place of
uncomfortableness.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, yeah, it really is. It's
very easy to focus on sort of doing
mission. This is about just becoming missionaries.
Um, this is about integrating
simple, uh, practices. This is about
a way, this is about a way of life. This
is always, um, being open
to what the spirit might do,
but hopefully not having to
overthink it. You know, it's,
you just carry on. And then
God interrupts, says, by the way,
I have something you thought taking
Lorenzo to the station. It turns out I actually had
an assignment for you. Uh, you'll be bringing someone back.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: There you go. Ah, you didn't know it, but I need you.
So in all the gardens, if I recall correctly,
gather every so often, right? Yes, Tell me
about that.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, so we, uh, our plan was
to kind of, to flip in a sense
the rhythm of normal inherited church, which would
be, you know, normally church meets every Sunday and
then if you, the added extra is to be in a small group
of some sort, we make the primary expression of the
kingdom of God in your home, in your
weekly community group, and
then, um,
monthly or so to
join together as a network. That is
a pop up kind of gathering. So
where we meet will be dependent
slightly on what opportunity
God's put in our way. Whether he's provided
a building or someone who says,
hey, I've got a place we can meet. And so
we don't quite know. They're not all mapped out for the year ahead.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Where's that? There's no plan.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: There isn't. But, um,
it should be every month. But the reality is the way things
are growing and shifting, I've probably moved
it to every term we
meet. Um, what's a term? Oh, yeah,
sorry. Uh, so school term would be kind of
every quarter.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Um, it's probably easier if I give an example.
Uh, so we have. So this
October we've been hosting Myriad, which
is a lay leader training
hub. Um, that in effect
has become our October gathering. Okay.
We all just went away for a night and,
well, not all of us, but a chunk of us don't really have the
capacity to then do another big gathering. We also
did a compost. So we call it compost. It's,
ah, a worship gathering in a cricket pavilion,
um, in a field. That too was just as good
as a network gathering, although.
And um, so we've sort of done two in October.
But I didn't actually call them network gatherings.
They were just things ministries that are
already running, but they happen to. They, they did
the same thing as a network gathering.
Um, sorry, I'm making this very complicated. In
November. So it's fireworks night in November. So we go into
someone's. Someone has a field, going to do a
big bonfire night.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Oh, nice.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: That probably is our network, Catherine.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: And what they tend to be is about four hours
of spending time together sharing food.
At some time, at some point, there'll be a time of worship, there'll
be a time of prayer, community
discussion perhaps around a passage of scripture or
thought. And,
um, then
that's it.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And this is in the larger. So this would be the
larger family.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, larger family. So it's really important to do
some connecting and sharing.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Because these groups might not see each other.
Um, you know, they're so spread
out, actually spending time connecting them
in and, um, getting to know each other and hearing each
other's stories and what God's.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Doing and going back to the person that may
be starting their own. At which point do they start a
second or do they consider, uh,
splitting and becoming two?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Like is. It does. Does the family. Is 12
the perfect number? And you know. But you meet 40 people
at your house. Yeah.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Well, we say, don't grow a garden bigger than your living room
and teach.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: You to have a barn as your living room.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: I just grew a bigger living room.
Multiplication, um, has not happened how I thought it would
happen. So I thought multiplication would be a,
uh, fairly tidy, um,
tidy thing where we get to a certain size
and then we all meet up one day and say, you know what,
we should all split. We should all multiply. Um,
let's all go and do it.
Just. It's family and it's.
I mean, I might have just done this wrong, but I find it really
difficult to sort of
do that because.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: You'Re sort of saying like, you've fallen in love with all these people.
You enjoy spending time together. Now split.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: We now mustn't meet anymore. We, we had
spent all of our time finding a way to keep meeting.
And so that would be. So
what has actually happened is. And
God seems to have a Better plan, which is people have come into our
garden, travel
30 minutes in the car to come and be with us.
And then gradually there's been other people and they've looked on the map
and said, oh my gosh, you live down the road from me.
And then a few other people. And then they've really enjoyed being
together. And there's again, I said, there's no rush in this
process. It's an organic process. But
now they've all decided to start one
closer to home and they've got the DNA.
They feel happy, they know how and they're staying
connected because with the, uh, you know, our
garden, their garden, closely connected. So if they can't make it
on the Wednesday that they meet, they might come to us on Tuesday.
So it's a cross pollination.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Okay.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: But a new one has begun. It sort of emerged
out of, well, there's enough of us that live
in this area. Why don't we start one. The vision,
the DNA in a way works because people are
then looking to see, how can I be a spiritual missionary in
my locality? It doesn't make sense for me to be
driving 40 minutes, 30 minutes. Yeah. Ah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: And in a way that also provides for the
quote unquote training because they've lived, uh,
they've been part of a, of a garden.
So when they go to do it, it's like, well, I know how to be family.
I know I've done it now for X number, for X amount of
time. So I know how to do this.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah. So as an apprenticeship
model. And,
um, people are picking up that sense that this is
doable. I. Or with you and
you, you guys love hospitality and you have a
good sized living room. I really don't like traveling
half an hour, but I'd definitely commit if you started
one. So we have enough of a core.
You're not just meeting by yourself, saying, we've
begun. Oh, there's no one here, is
there?
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Um.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Ah.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Are there gardens that meet outside of someone's
home?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, so there's one that
started by meeting in a cricket pavilion. Um,
um, there are ones
that meet. I mean, yeah, it could be any
space. I'm trying to think, where does that really meet?
Sometimes they, you know, in the summer
they'll not just meet in the home. And we've started
a whole strand of. So as the kind
of the bread and butter is a garden in
someone's home. But then the next
thing that seems to be coming out of that is through
the relationships with the local church
or with the local area is to
then experiment with missional initiatives
in some of the ancient spaces. So in church
buildings, um, or in,
um, the workplace or in school.
Um, so someone started, ah, one of the guys, as a maths
teacher, he started a thing kind of ironically
named in a way, but it was called Jesus Club, and it had a picture
of psychedelic Jesus floating in the air. But the
kids love it and they, loads of them come to it
and they. This is kind of like a garden
in break time, at school, in the classroom.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Oh, wow.
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Um, and that's his workplace and that's what
he's able to do. There's
one where we're doing a partnership with a
whole group of churches called the Summer
Layton Benefice. And they're.
One thing led to another and they haven't been able to recruit a
vicar for four years. So we said, why don't
we experiment with some. Let's
try some church services, but with a twist,
something a little bit different to what you might be used
to. That gave us an opportunity to
allow our, uh, musicians and creatives to
express what would church look like if you, if you
needed to do a Sunday in an old church
building, what would you do? And so
they'd kind of put together something and that's
gone down really well. So we're now doing a few
more of those. Um, so,
yes, we meet in lots of spaces, but the bread and butter
is. We don't
replace meeting in the home together as a family. We
just go on mission and go to some places and
try some things.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: So one final thing.
Could you say a prayer for those that might be
thinking about starting their own garden somewhere else in the
world?
>> Reverend Dave Lloyd: Yeah, definitely. Let's pray. Father,
thank you so much that
you send us. And
as Jesus said, as the Father sent me, so I
send you. Thank you, Jesus. That you were a follower, that,
uh, you were sent, that you went into the
world with so little and yet
so much, with all the promise of heaven, and,
and you built community and you went on a journey
and you went to wherever your father
was sending you and you saw,
um, glimpses of heaven
landing on earth wherever you went. And I
pray for those who are looking to start
something. I pray for that same spirit
to be at work, that they would know that they are
sent. They would know that all the promise
of heaven is there at their disposal.
But, um, you would lead them
to navigate the terrain in front of them,
uh, to see new communities
planted, uh, to see families
spring up and to see
your word read and your
spirit leading. Would you bless them?
Um, give them strength for the
journey, and may they resist the
temptation to take control.
But, uh, having begun in the spirit, they
would continue in the spirit.
In your name we pray.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Amen. Thank you.
>> Father Lorenz Lebrija: Thanks for listening. Please subscribe and
be sure to leave a review. To learn more About
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up with all of our experiments. The
Try Tank Podcast is a production of Try Tank in
association with Resonate Media.
Try Tank is a joint venture between
Virginia Theological Seminary and General
Theological Seminary. Again, thanks for
joining us. I'm, um, Father Lorenzo Labrija.
Until next time, May God bless.