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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Hello? Are you there? No. I'm here. You are cracking me up because we just did your interview and then you all were like, no.
Speaker 1:No. No. No. Actually, I need to come back and talk about protectors. Right.
Speaker 1:What do you wanna say about protectors?
Speaker 3:Okay. So here's the thing. I'm not the one that went to to talk about it. It's the main protector of our system. And, actually, I think she well, she will explain better.
Speaker 3:But, basically, you were listening to one of the episodes. I don't remember the name. It was the one about the moonlight. No. Moonlight response.
Speaker 3:We were listening to it, and then you and the husband were talking about the misrepresentation of good, like, unquote, good and bad parts. And then our main main protector in the system used to be a, quote, unquote, bad part. Right? The procedure. So it's just like, I think I could help somehow talking more hopefully about it.
Speaker 3:And then I sent you the email and shameless goodbye for for myself. You You were kind enough to to let us come back.
Speaker 1:That's so funny. No. I'm glad if you had something to share that you wanted to come on. Mhmm. So you're saying that your system has experience with helping allegedly perceived as bad parts Yeah.
Speaker 1:To be transitioned to or transformed as or re perceived as better, more helpful, effective parts?
Speaker 3:I think it's important to say that not all the systems, they they like to use the terms. Right? The like, oh, there's the procedure and the protector. And I I have some some things that that I feel a little bit different about it. Like, when you say someone is the protector, actually, everybody's protecting us somehow.
Speaker 3:Right? So the kids, at at least for us, the the kids, they help us to protect our innocence. And the sexual part help us to protect our body in abuse sexual abuses. So everybody protects us somehow. But in our our system at least, the how the parts act and interact with each other.
Speaker 3:And since we began therapy, how we work together, it's kind of like they have their own jobs, how they living there better, then they help each other. So there's one part that is very organized. So she help us with this. And there's the other part that is good to to impose limits. Right?
Speaker 3:To say, oh, no. This is too much. You need to stop now. So we work we work together. We protect each other.
Speaker 3:But there are other parts that are clearly the way they protect each other. I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm a little bit confused myself. I can imagine the ones that I listen to.
Speaker 3:Sorry, guys. But we have very clear functions in the system. Yeah. That's the word I was looking for, functions. So we have a gatekeeper that someone that takes care of the our main room and don't let other parts stay out when they're not supposed to, when it's not safe.
Speaker 3:We have all these different parts. And the one that now is the main protector used to be my prosecutor. So I'm the one that's speaking with you guys at. And the one that is coming to talk to you soon is Danny. And Danny used to be a microsecutor.
Speaker 3:So she she used to be that, you know, that that inner voice when I didn't know about the ID, but that inner voice that you should say very angry things and very mean things to me. She didn't know she was hurting me. That's that was her way to protect protect me somehow. And since we started therapy and she did a lot of repossessings, she helps us in a way that is more effective. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's the word. Because she was trying to help somehow, but it wasn't effective. And if it's okay, I'm gonna call her now to come and talk to you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Hello, Darren. Welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you. That's my first time talking to people outside that they are not the therapist, so I'm a bit nervous.
Speaker 1:You know you're on the podcast. That's okay with you?
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was my idea, actually.
Speaker 3:But then it's better for for things to do then to introductions and all the stuff because it's easier for her. Right? So my name is Danny. I used to be one of the prosecutors in our system. And when you and the husband were talking about moonlight and the good and the bad parts and how how it's so I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:I'm trying not to use bad words because that's I I used to be anger holder. That was my function before.
Speaker 1:Can say what you need to say. That's okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Thank you. But I'm I'm gonna try to be polite. But I should be the inner holder in our system, and that was the only signal that I knew how to feel. And I think that's something that many prosecutors out there can relate to.
Speaker 3:I did I I literally didn't know anything else than in there, and and and it was my way to communicate. So a little bit of background. Inside, I see myself as a fallen angel. So the ones that are religious, just be assured be aware that that's not like I'm a possession. That's not it.
Speaker 3:It's just because when I came to existence, our host was taught before that Christian people don't feel anger. And if you're forgiving someone, you don't hope, like, you need to have this person nearby you. And then someone maybe to get anger. Right? And that was me.
Speaker 3:So inside, I'm seeing as a fallen angel. And I used to be to leave apart for all the other parts. I used to be in a in a attic. And I was just pissed off all the time. And let me be clear that my personality didn't change.
Speaker 3:Like, who I am didn't change. I just know how to use this anger to do better things. Like, we repossessed the angry. I put it out in a healthy way. And now I I usually go to run, and that's how I listen my my music that that are not the ones that the host likes.
Speaker 3:But so we we know these other ways to use my anger. And now I can protect the body and the inside children. And sometimes when I see some things with children outside, not Penny doesn't have any kids, but she's a teacher. Right? So when I see some things that are just wrong, I help it.
Speaker 3:And I thought maybe someone that is out there and listen to that inner voice that's actually a part. That is all the time. I used to that's a sensitive subject, but tell me she's she has the pressure. Right? And when when she was in her worst state, I never talked to this on her openly, not even with her, but I know she's listening.
Speaker 3:I was the one that you should tell her that it would be she just need to end her life. So I know I wasn't a good company. Right? And I just I really just thought it would be the sick, the better way because life was was she sorry. Life was not good.
Speaker 3:So I was trying to help somehow. I help I I hold some memories that she didn't have, like, people near very nearby near her. And I have these memories, and I just had to keep everything to myself. And it's not easy being me alone and holding all this, holding all this strong feelings and not, I mean, I still hold some of them, but I can feel the good things too. I can see that me talking openly about this stuff can help other parts.
Speaker 3:And I guess I just wanted other systems to know that if you're hearing this voice that is really mean to you, it's not like like this. We don't hate you. The persecutors, they don't hate you. They just don't know how to feel anything different. At least that was for me.
Speaker 3:And kindly as well told me that prosecutors, they are misguided protectors. Right? So I didn't know how to protect. And when she and maybe someone that is listening, I think, okay. But how do I deal with this shitty part that is making me my life hell in life?
Speaker 3:But that that was even a more polite way. That was the question that I did to our team. Right? To our therapist. And the therapist, she is so good.
Speaker 3:But she she told her, she would just tell me, okay. Tell me what you're tell me. And and I remember putting everything out and she validated my feelings. She's like, okay. I I don't understand everything that you tell me, but I can see there's a reason why you feel this way.
Speaker 3:And I never ever thought that somebody would see me as a reasonable part. Right? And bit by bit, I started to change. And it wasn't like, oh, now I'm going to be the protector. No.
Speaker 3:I just once my traumas started to be dealt with, right, we repossessed them. I could just I knew I wasn't alone anymore. I could at least talk to tea and use all my bad words. And I wasn't jabbed by that or by or other parts in the system that I started to kind of talk to, but not really. And suddenly, I saw in the eyes of one of the leaders that she wasn't afraid of me anymore.
Speaker 3:And that was some big shit happened to her. But now I can use all these big things I have in a more organized way and more healthy way. And I think that's it. Do you have any questions? I I I'm open to talk about anything you'd like.
Speaker 1:I have several questions.
Speaker 3:Please go on.
Speaker 1:The first question is a simple one. You used the term gatekeeper. It's not something I have talked about because I have not labeled by role so much of that or shared so much of that. So for people who are listening and still learning terminology, could you explain what a gatekeeper is?
Speaker 3:So there are some systems, they have one part that is responsible to kind of organize everything and and see when it's safe for other parts to be floating. So our gatekeeper, he's here. He told me I can share his name. His name is Pedro, and he he always stays in a room in our system. That's how we picture everything, you know, kind of in in the movie inside out.
Speaker 3:You have, the the control room. That's how it does it is for us. And then Pedro, he lives in the control room. And every time someone is woken woken, wake wake up, woken up, yeah, woken up, he's there. And then he knows when some part can be out there or even if they are too close and it's not safe.
Speaker 3:So he controls the ones that can go out or or can't go. Not it doesn't work all the time. Right? Sometimes we have strong strong you know, when you see something and the part is out, like Like triggered out front? Yes.
Speaker 3:Trigger. Thank you. I put sometimes there is a big trigger, positive or negative that brings someone and people who can't control them all the time. But he's like someone that it's not in a bad way, controlling way. It's more like he's respected by everybody.
Speaker 3:And they know when he says, oh, no. It's time for me to go back now. Okay. Now I can come. So sometimes and and before the therapy, you should be the main protector too.
Speaker 3:But once I started to talk to him and tell him, we became, like, in in inner circle with one of the wheels. He the system decided that Nava was the main protector, But that's what did keep her.
Speaker 1:Next question is a little more personal for you. And I'm not poking you with the stick. I just would like for you to describe more if you're comfortable. If you're not, it's okay to Before therapy, and I know you shared before you all had EMDR, right? You're talking about reprocessing?
Speaker 1:Yes. So before all of that, before therapy and before all of that, what was your motivator for being so mean or targeting her so much? What was that about or where was that coming from or how was that meaningful to you? Not judging good or bad. Just what was your experience or perspective of that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Sure. I think I was just hurt. I felt all this that now I can see as pain, as loneliness, as overwhelmed by angry, angrilyness, anger, anger. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:So that was the only way I could put some feelings out. You know, when you're filled with something, that's what it comes out of you. Right? So I was just really hurt and really lonely. And that was the only way that I I could share.
Speaker 3:And also, like, I could see I wouldn't let anyone know back then, but I can see I can see it now, and I can I realize this now? I could see I wasn't the only one suffering. I could see the mess that was inside even though I didn't talk to the other parts. I could see some some here and some there. And I it was just not even life.
Speaker 3:So I thought that maybe maybe Tylee's wasn't brave enough. And she made some push to to do something that I thought as the best decision. Now I know it's not, but I was hurt and lonely and I thought that it was the best decision for everybody, not just for myself because if I was hurting this bad, the others were true. I just realized that. You
Speaker 1:were already caring about them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But I didn't know. I I mean, I I wouldn't I would never say this a lot before. And I wouldn't even think about it. Because, you know, and now some personal let's just I I need to explain something.
Speaker 3:I think that's gonna be interesting for the listening listeners too. We did something internally before the Zoom meeting, before we start our call. We did a small transfusion. Like, we had a doctor inside. So Tiny's laid down in one bed and I, like, laid down in other.
Speaker 3:And then she shared with me, I guess, her too. She share a little bit of her openness to speak about the feelings and her she's very good at talking, like, with people. That's not something that you're usually good at. So she we did like it was a blood trans transfusion. Is this how you say in English?
Speaker 3:Transfusion?
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So we did this and did the the the the little ones, they say it's the butterfly hug. It's something that we do in in EMDR too.
Speaker 1:With the tapping Yes. Back and
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. So we did this while doing this small transfusion transfusion because we are different parts, but we can help each other. And that was the first time we tried this procedure. It was suggested by our therapist and it worked.
Speaker 3:And now I'm feeling like I really feel the courage I lack to share my feelings and stuff about myself. So, okay, just wanted to explain this. And now I'm gonna share and let me be clear that is totally up to me. That's something I wanna help the others sharing with. So our inner world is really big.
Speaker 3:And there's lots lots of layers of it. I used to live in the, like, the most far away part with other parts like me, like rejected by the moral. You know? Something happened that there over there. And I never, I didn't know why.
Speaker 3:Now I know because of therapy. But in one day I was there with the one day I considered like my sisters. And the other day I was up nearby the the control room by myself in an attic. And there were all this part that I could not look at and, like, despise them and kids and kind hearts. And that was just but I thought it was a punishment for me.
Speaker 3:It wasn't. But this happened and I didn't have access to that part of, like, not the part part, but, like, this area of the inner world. I didn't have a way to go back there anymore. So, and this, it was, it was really hard for me. And I felt, I felt like I deserved the worst, that I was a worst part than I already thought about myself.
Speaker 3:And if I didn't have this understanding of the system and how the brain works, but I thought if someone put me there, then I just deserve to stay alone by myself. And so I isolated myself. And then when I saw there there's some opportunity for me to end all the suffering. And I thought, okay. So it seems like stuff are messy here too.
Speaker 3:So maybe other parts are suffering too. That's when I try to take the chance.
Speaker 1:How have you been able to build safety as a protector since then?
Speaker 3:You mean can you repeat, please? Because someone is close.
Speaker 1:How were you able or how have you been able to build safety since then?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Do you mean safety, like, for the body and everybody else or for myself, like, safety? Both. Okay. So I think I didn't re I think no.
Speaker 3:I'm sure I didn't realize that the safety was being built because first, I was so angry at something that happened outside. And I I just came to the therapist when she, you know, show how bad I am and all the illness. But before that, Kaili was trying to communicate with me because she realized she had studied a lot about DHA first. Right? So she was like, okay.
Speaker 3:So there's someone here. This inner voice, my my voice is actually some part. And she tried to somehow be open. And at first, I sent her a a song, a pink song about my Eric. And then if you read the lyrics, if someone is curious about if you read the lyrics, talks about the attic, that's where I usually and how I continue to messy and how you feel like anyways, you read the lyrics, you're gonna know.
Speaker 3:And then I stand this this song to her and she took notes and then she talked about the therapies. And and when she was reading the lyrics for the therapist, I wasn't strong enough to come to the control room. And that was the first time that we conf that we were confronting and she knew about. Actually not confronting, sorry, cococious. And, but her reaction and how open the therapist was, all this.
Speaker 3:I remember feeling something and I talked to the therapist. I said, I don't know what is this that I'm feeling. And now I can see it was the beginning of the safeness. Right? I could feel that I was safe now.
Speaker 3:And I, I wasn't being judged and I wasn't being seen as the worst, like the demon that I am inside. And then the therapist, she was very wise in the way she talked to me and the way she she orientated. I don't know if that's the term. She talked to Tylee how to talk to me. And when I saw, I was trying to help the others.
Speaker 3:It wasn't like, oh, now it's a choice. No. I I just felt safe enough to be myself and to talk to her, you know, like, share this good and bad bad thoughts and funny thoughts. And she enjoys Talia enjoys my sense of humor. It's kind of not for everybody else, but and then I was all the time apart from the kids inside.
Speaker 3:Right? I didn't want to come close to them. But suddenly that little one that she saw me and she wasn't afraid of me in the control room. And she was like, like, say hello from a distance. And the other day she came and hugged me.
Speaker 3:And that's that's when I realized I wanted to protect all of them with my whole damn life. And now I've been working inside. There are still many parts that are lost somehow. You know, in the work, mostly kids. So I've been working to bring them safe safe to surface so they can talk to the team.
Speaker 3:And we have caretaker here too that stays with the kids. So I help this way. I also help to protect them when the younger ones, are sharing some shitty trauma. And that's the part in EMDR where you kind of confront your past and do what you want it to do. And sometimes the kids, they are not ready to, like, they wanted to confront somebody to confront the adult that the abusers.
Speaker 3:Right? So I am the one when they are. Reprocessing. I am the one that use my anger to to make that abuser's space somehow. And this helps them with the reprocessing.
Speaker 3:That's how I help inside. Sorry. That was a long answer. Outside, I prefer what you share for me.
Speaker 1:That is not too long of an answer. That was lovely. Thank you. What is that like since you are open and feeling some feelings? What is that like for you to see that they are not afraid of you anymore?
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 3:how can I explain? You know, when when a kid sees fireworks for the first time, like, on big days, I feel like that's the feeling I feel. Colorful, not too much because I don't like colors that much, but colorful light works, fireworks in my chest. That's how I feel. And it's sometimes it's hard to believe.
Speaker 3:Right? But then I look around and I see things working well inside and I can check the message we exchanged with the therapist and I was like, this is real. This is our life and it still can get better because we're getting really, really good in communication and helping other people to other parts, other other systems. It's our main main goal on long term. So I, I, sorry, I think that did I answer your question?
Speaker 1:Was there anything else that you wanted to share today while you had time on the podcast?
Speaker 3:You know, I think I think I I was open up for London. I just wanted to reinforce this idea like this that I'm trying to say that everybody suffers inside somehow, even the ones that don't remember. And everybody can help somehow. Even if you think you are the worst part, even if you think you don't deserve to live, you you can be. You can make some change, like, in your inner world or in your outside world.
Speaker 3:And that's that's some big shit. That's that's amazing.
Speaker 1:You. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Do you wanna talk to Titus again or that's good?
Speaker 1:That is up to you all.
Speaker 3:Yep. I'm I'm gonna let her come back because yeah. I need to go back inside of us a bit. Overwhelming now. I think that the blood transfusion is has tried to breathe out, so I'm gonna go back.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming.
Speaker 3:Hey. So I'm back here.
Speaker 1:There anything that you wanted to add?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I think that that was good for today. I don't know if you have any other questions related up or not to what we talked about. And if you have some time, but I know you have been crazy with the time time zones. Right?
Speaker 3:So if you prefer to just end it, it's okay for me too.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's okay. I just wanted to make sure that you got to share everything. What I guess my last question would be, what has been the biggest difference for you as they have kind of transformed into a more of a protector role?
Speaker 3:I mean, for me, the first thing that I noticed is the main like, the first thing that I noticed, it was not having this this this thoughts that would put me down all the time and make me feel like I was really not a good person or really not enough. All these thoughts since we start to talk, and you and I, they changed it. It wasn't like, well, I was this way and the other then the they just they met the next day, it wasn't anymore. No. It was a transition.
Speaker 3:Right? We became friends. I think that's that's the biggest change and the one that I treasure the most because now we became you should hate me to say this, but really best friends. So we talk all the time, and we share some some jokes and sometimes we disagree, of course, because that's what friends do. Right?
Speaker 3:We agree. We help each other, but we we also disagree sometimes. But always with respect. So that's the most treasured change for me. And, of course, seeing her journey and seeing her being more at ease with herself and being able to help the others and how I feel too that she feels.
Speaker 3:I I can I used to feel her her not the anger because you had this this barrier, but I I could feel she wasn't good? She wasn't feeling good. And now I can feel she has hope, and that's something very different.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Anything else you wanted to share before you go?
Speaker 3:No. No. I think that's that's enough. I already talked a lot.
Speaker 1:You for I really appreciate you. And I think you were super brave to email and say, hey, I have something to add. That takes a lot of courage and so I really wanted to respond to that.
Speaker 3:Thanks. It was good and Danny is thanking too for having heard of me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Welcome. Bye. Good to see you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing.