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Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.
You're watching TVPN. Today is Friday, 10/24/2025. We are live from the TVPN UltraDome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance. The capital of capital.
Speaker 2:And we're here. We have a special guest. Friend of Happy the
Speaker 3:to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks for stopping by. We wanted to have you on the show for a few reasons. We are going to run through the mansion section and get your opinion on whether these homes are worth passing up or an absolute steal at something like $50,000,000. So we'll be going through that in a minute. Great.
Speaker 1:We also wanted to hear from you what's new in Feed Me World. Do you have any scoops for us? Do you have any breaking news? Do have any exclusives? We invited you here.
Speaker 2:It's want relaxing.
Speaker 1:We want we want some news.
Speaker 3:Well, I've been in LA for a few days and I got some local LA news from some of my readers because I did a pop up for a few days to sell these new hats which LA readers got first. Some of the people that came by had TBPN merch which was cool.
Speaker 2:There we go.
Speaker 3:They're fans. So it's good to have crossover. What news do we have? I'm hiring an intern which you guys are saying not
Speaker 4:to Breaking say news.
Speaker 1:Breaking news. You heard it here first. That's why you come to us for scoops like this.
Speaker 2:This has never been shared. She does not post about this. No. It's included in the newsletter
Speaker 1:or anything. It's not breaking news until TBP uncovers it.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's right. What else can I say? Feed Me's first podcast is going live in two weeks. We did push back the the live date.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But
Speaker 1:And and oh, wait. Run through the thesis of the podcast. I thought it was good.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's it's like it's a restaurant podcast. It's hosted by my restaurant critic and it'll be fun. We have this idea that there's sort of a white space in Yeah. Kind of wait. You guys don't curse or you do?
Speaker 1:We don't curse.
Speaker 2:But you're welcome to
Speaker 1:You're welcome to
Speaker 2:like that person to
Speaker 1:say a swear word Right.
Speaker 3:About our show. Yeah. Sort of any everybody likes restaurants. Yes. And anybody can talk about restaurants.
Speaker 3:So we have some interesting people coming on to talk about restaurants with our restaurant critic which will be a blast. That'll go live in two weeks. Thanks Substack for supporting that.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:Some other things might come up
Speaker 1:That'd be fun.
Speaker 3:Over the next few minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I I like that it wasn't just like the Feed Me show. That was intentional. Right? Because that would be the logical thing.
Speaker 1:It's just like
Speaker 3:To do like Emily's show.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah. Or that I mean, it could
Speaker 2:MeetMe would kinda be a good name for a restaurant.
Speaker 3:I know. I know. That
Speaker 1:is hilarious.
Speaker 3:I was talking to somebody the other day and
Speaker 1:Would you
Speaker 4:have a different
Speaker 2:brand for it?
Speaker 3:It's called ExpenseAccount.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Which is the same name as the restaurant called
Speaker 1:Is Ramp sponsoring it? They need to.
Speaker 3:They should. I'm having
Speaker 1:some Yeah. They're sponsoring us. Ramp.com.
Speaker 2:Time to Money Stable.
Speaker 1:Love Ramp. Cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They they should.
Speaker 1:Where is my single, by the way? Is it over here? Where oh, which one am I on? Am I on this? There we go.
Speaker 1:Okay. Now I found my single. Perfect. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Sorry. Some people read my Substack who watched this. That's so good.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:That's so great.
Speaker 1:Only David Senner can curse on the show. You're keeping That's true. He Okay. Well, we we we we we we are about to understand the landscape of the restaurant world. Thanks to your new podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's gonna be great.
Speaker 1:Which is called
Speaker 3:Expense account.
Speaker 1:Expense account.
Speaker 3:Expense account.
Speaker 1:But the real reason that we wanted to have you on the show was to help us understand the media landscape.
Speaker 2:There's been a lot of debate. Right?
Speaker 1:There's been a
Speaker 2:lot of talk. You have Paramount's Guidance. Yep. You have, you know, the free press Yep. Starting a conversation.
Speaker 2:You have, media people like to talk about media. Yeah. So today, we're gonna talk about media.
Speaker 1:Also, I think people have just simplified things way too much. They try and break it down into a binary. Are you legacy media or new media? Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Are you legacy media or new media? We all know it's way more complicated
Speaker 2:than that. And people like to say if you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it. Yes. But today apply here.
Speaker 1:Today, we
Speaker 2:will do it.
Speaker 5:So we have
Speaker 2:a break it down. We have a market map.
Speaker 1:Market map. Yeah. Sort of market map. I'm gonna, kind of walk us through a little bit of it, get, feedback from Emily and Jordy and Tyler. And if we get anything wrong, take it up with Tyler because he's the one who created this.
Speaker 2:Made this graphic. So if there are any errors on it, you're good to go.
Speaker 1:We have to start with the mainstream media. What is the mainstream media? Arguably, the
Speaker 2:best What is
Speaker 1:I think it's the best stream. Because if you were to pick a stream to do media in, would you wanna be in the main one or some alternative one? You wanna be in the mainstream ideally. I think everyone is on the march to become the mainstream media.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But mainstream media is broken down into several sub sections. You have the legacy media and the traditional media.
Speaker 2:And why don't you explain the difference? Because a lot of people would say they're the same thing, but
Speaker 1:A lot of it comes down to the aesthetics. Mhmm. The aesthetics of you're seeing serif fonts. Mhmm. The New York Times, the Washington Post.
Speaker 1:When you go over to Fox News, BBC, CNN, you're getting you're you're getting something that feels like it is fighting for its life.
Speaker 3:It looks like TV.
Speaker 1:It looks like TV. It looks like TV. I need a little more on my oh, my my lab is really doing a number. Here we go. Okay.
Speaker 1:Is that better? Can you guys hear me okay? I got caught. I got really caught up on
Speaker 2:This this is your Sam Hyde bit. Sam Hyde's head talk. Yeah. You know, you
Speaker 1:know. Okay. So, there is a continuum of There's a gradient that exists between legacy and traditional. CNBC right in the middle. You have Forbes.
Speaker 1:You have the Financial Times. And you can kind of tell that as you get towards Business Insider, CNN, you're more in the legacy world.
Speaker 2:You're kind of in the danger zone.
Speaker 1:You're in the danger zone. David Ellison might be kind of licking his chops
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Saying, oh, maybe I'll take you over at some point. David Ellison, he's not gonna make a play for The Wall Street Journal, for The Washington Post, for The New York Times.
Speaker 2:Part of traditional means that you can actually get it via newspaper. Right? Or Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. That is key. That's a factor. A lot of people will put the split divide of, like, your new media if you have a blog
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Or your legacy media if you print it out. But we forget that there is a whole host of mainstream media outlets that do not print out their work. They do not ship a newspaper. And so most of the newspapers you'll see, Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The New York Times, those are in the traditional media.
Speaker 2:Economists, another
Speaker 1:one. The Economist, another one. Atlantic. Yes. So this is really the heart and soul, the beating the beating pulse of the mainstream media.
Speaker 1:But you also have offshoots from each Okay. Of these areas. So you have the post
Speaker 2:about post trad and why Yes. I see this little number right here, Bloomberg.
Speaker 1:Bloomberg is moving over into post trad media. Obviously, that's on the back of Tracy Allaway, Joe's Joe Wiesenthal with the Odd Lots podcast. You can think of that as the classic post media what?
Speaker 3:And Tracy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I I said Tracy.
Speaker 5:Oh, you did?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Tracy and Jo Wiesenthal at the OddLots podcast are a great example of post trad media where they they come from traditional media, but they have been so early to the podcasting game. They're, what, a decade in? Isn't it a decade?
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They're a decade into that, and so they jumped up with pressure.
Speaker 2:Experiment, you know, from Michael Bloomberg to to what if I could just be the news? What if
Speaker 1:I could
Speaker 2:create the news? Yes. And so There'd be some frustrations with traditional media and, you know, saying, why not me? Right?
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. And so you can see him like, he's slightly less traditional than the New York Times.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But but still, you know
Speaker 2:Kind of in that in that post
Speaker 1:trade region. We also have proto media. I am not exactly sure why Digg and Hacker News wound up there. More just like early online efforts that weren't really trying to play in these weren't these weren't trying to be traditional media corporations, media organizations. They weren't telling a story about being new media in any way.
Speaker 1:They were sort of the pro
Speaker 2:But you could almost put Reddit here. We're missing Reddit in some ways. But Reddit was trying be the front page of the Internet to kind of curate Yeah. Stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, you could probably go all the way up here and add social media and TikTok and stuff. But we wanna stay on the media outlets, the folks who who, who really proclaim that they are the media. Right? And so over here, we have the post legacy media, and this is a crew of former legacy media folks who have now ventured out into Substack and YouTube.
Speaker 1:Substack
Speaker 3:Would you argue that a few years ago, Barry like, the free press would have been there too and
Speaker 1:they would
Speaker 3:have moved?
Speaker 1:Well, I think
Speaker 2:I think Barry's way down. If I remember correctly, she's in more of the legacy new media. Was new media. Yes. But now she's in the legacy new media bucket.
Speaker 1:So so you're so if you're wait. What what are these guys? Post legacy? So so post legacy is where you were up until recently, like,
Speaker 2:in '20 or '20? Traditional media.
Speaker 1:If you worked for the legacy media in the twenty twenties, like Alex Heath at Verge, which isn't exactly legacy media, but, at Ford
Speaker 2:That's legacy new media.
Speaker 1:And, obviously, Bloomberg with Ashley Vance. If you were working with the legacy media, you you didn't jump ship in the nineties. You didn't jump ship in the February. You didn't jump ship in the twenty tens. You rode it all out.
Speaker 2:Mid twenty twenties.
Speaker 1:And then the mid twenty twenties, you were like, okay. This legacy media thing isn't working for me anymore.
Speaker 2:I gotta go after Ashley Vance and Bloomberg here, so this kind of crossover.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. But the free press the free press, Barry left the New York Times, famously, you know, crazy dust up. Mhmm. And that was in the pre post legacy media era.
Speaker 3:Right before. Right before that started.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:She used to be in the new media bucket Yes. But current now she sits in the legacy new media.
Speaker 1:And that's because there's a whole new wave of new media. Mhmm. And so, Andreessen Horowitz is is leading the charge here. They have a team that is just called new media. Which, of course, asked the question, what were
Speaker 2:they Which doing was their marketing teams.
Speaker 1:Yes. So they were doing media. It's not like they just started doing media. No. They just started doing new media.
Speaker 1:Their old media now known as legacy new media. And so legacy new media also includes the information, BuzzFeed, Wired, Vice, organizations that came out and said, we are gonna be doing the new media thing, but they said that a decade ago, and so now it's a little bit legacy. Then you also have, of course, Alt Media. Vice kind of bridges these two gaps. You have the trappings of a new media organization, but with a little sharper edge.
Speaker 1:Over here, you get into the darker Dark
Speaker 2:media zone.
Speaker 1:You get the Sam Hyde, the Curtis Yarvans, the Passage Press, of course. We still haven't figured out where Feed Me goes.
Speaker 2:We'll do that at the end.
Speaker 1:We'll do this at the end.
Speaker 5:But we can move over to Near
Speaker 1:alt media.
Speaker 2:You have the Adam Friedlins.
Speaker 1:Yes. So you still have some of the some of the edginess, some of the rebel spirit of your VICE magazines, your Red Scares, but, obviously, newer products, newer media products launched more recently. Then you also have new media with the n u. That, of course, is media that covers new metal. So anyone who's if you're writing a blog about Limp Bizkit or POD or Slipknot
Speaker 2:That obviously goes in the new media If
Speaker 1:you were to build the free press for Korn fans, you would go in new media, n u, not n e w media.
Speaker 2:And, course, we have to talk about the post corporate media Yes. Category. Chapo Trap House, obviously, fitting in there.
Speaker 1:It's a very funny choice to put that there. But, obviously, anti corporate, sometimes socialist, sometimes communist, sometimes left wing, but distinctly anti corporate. You're not gonna run a lot of ads on a post corporate media property.
Speaker 2:Then you But have might curse some people. You might hire some people on Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's that's possible. Now, we do have the post neo media. So as you think, you think traditional media, legacy media, regular media, new media, neo media is the newest.
Speaker 2:Neo trad. Post neo
Speaker 1:media. You can think of it as the most accelerated, the most aggressive, the final, the most cutting edge media properties that are out there. We have Martin Scrawley. He just turns on a livestream. It doesn't
Speaker 2:He goes for hours and hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 1:It's not a media company. It's not a it's not a TV show.
Speaker 2:It's And he's moving he's moving markets. Right?
Speaker 1:Exactly. Exactly. Then you have I Show Speed, Mr. Beast, other examples of neo post neo media creators. You of course have had the expert media sphere.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And Huberman.
Speaker 2:Joe Rogan, UFO expert. Yes. Then Andrew Huberman, of course.
Speaker 1:And then we have the neo factual media, more of the analysts focused on the actual truth, one of the really the only truth seeking organizations on the map in general. Where are we? Let's move over Let's
Speaker 2:zoom out.
Speaker 1:To so traditional media, we know. Traditional media, you're printing things out. You're making traditional content. You're instantiating your ideas in traditional ways. And the neo trads are doing this in a new way.
Speaker 1:And so
Speaker 2:This is new media
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That cosplays as traditional media. Exactly. So that's TBPN. Right? It it it has some of the aesthetics of an ESPN.
Speaker 1:Yes. But
Speaker 2:it looks and feels
Speaker 3:Good job, guys.
Speaker 5:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you to the production team. I'm glad you guys like the show. Yes. It's good. And so Colossus is another good example here.
Speaker 2:They're obviously neo you know, if you look at this map, what is Colossus? There was debate last week. Right? Yes. We This is part of what started debate.
Speaker 2:What is Colossus? Are they writing profiles? You know, is is this journalism? And we just immediately thought this is obviously, you know, neo trad media. There's no other way to look at it.
Speaker 2:Yes. This is traditional print media reborn for the modern era.
Speaker 1:Yes. And and specifically, the you wind up getting a lot of attention in neo trad media from the old media, from the mainstream media, from the legacy media, because you are wearing traditional media clothing. So Arena Magazine,
Speaker 2:Sitting physically printed out squarely between post trad and neo trad.
Speaker 1:And so if you are the editor of Forbes or Fortune magazine, Fortune magazine has done a cover story on Josh Kushner. Colossus magazine just did a cover story on Josh Kushner, and they printed it out, and it's a physical magazine. And so it feels much more like a direct attack and a comparable product as opposed to if Colossus was just a substack, the editor of Forbes, the editor of Fortune, they would be able to say, well, that's just a sub stack. What makes us special is we print ours out
Speaker 2:in mail. Would you ever do a daily print newspaper?
Speaker 3:Daily print? I don't think so. But I would do I would do weekly. Daily print, it's There's so many hands involved and like material geofence
Speaker 2:it to New York, Manhattan. You could have little people in feed me outfits
Speaker 3:Yeah. Or I guess the other thing people do I don't know if you guys remember this paper during COVID called the drunken canal, was like a downtown gossip paper that they put in the news newspaper stand boxes
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:Around the city. But that was maybe four times a year or something. But that was really fun because you couldn't really find the content online. It created some tension around discovery.
Speaker 2:What are gonna publish? Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So then we have neo corporate media. These are, like, obviously from a corporation that does something that's not media. You have the AWS developer tools blog. Let's give it up for some of the greatest content. You have the OpenAI podcast, Cheeky Pint, which sort of dresses up as Neo Trad in many ways, but also is fully owned and operated by Stripe, a corporation.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Then you have the Neo Conglomerate Media. This is whatever David Ellison is working on, we believe.
Speaker 2:David and Larry, we could we have added UFC as part of this new neo conglomerate.
Speaker 1:We can update it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The East Coast underground. You'll have to explain everything in this section.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We weren't familiar with this. What's going on
Speaker 3:You guys know New York Magazine. Come on.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah. From the Andrew Huberman
Speaker 1:piece. Is that the New Yorker magazine? No. Is that the New York Times Magazine? No.
Speaker 1:Is that the New York New Yorkers? New York Magazine?
Speaker 3:New Yorker is part of Conde Nast.
Speaker 1:Okay. Okay.
Speaker 3:New York Times Magazine is part of
Speaker 1:The New York Times.
Speaker 3:Correct. And New York Magazine is something else.
Speaker 1:Who's it owned by?
Speaker 2:And it's is it supported by like the city?
Speaker 3:It's under it's under box.
Speaker 1:Wait. Well, box nationalize it. Mom Donnie,
Speaker 2:let's let's do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That I mean, that's a big one. You guys should probably know about that one.
Speaker 1:I feel like I love New York Magazine because to come out of a magazine, the New York Times already has a magazine and the New Yorker has a magazine, and you're just like, you know what? New York needed a magazine. That's something that we would say.
Speaker 3:It's the best one. That's the one where I worked.
Speaker 1:Yes. It does seem cool. And I feel like when you hit see a New Yorker a New York mag profile, it is great.
Speaker 3:Oh my god. It's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's great. Their own special flavor that's not quite the New Yorker. It's not quite the New York Times magazine.
Speaker 3:It's the New York it's New York magazine.
Speaker 1:It's New
Speaker 3:York mag.
Speaker 1:Yeah. NY mag. Okay. So why are why why are these so
Speaker 3:You guys have never
Speaker 6:heard okay.
Speaker 3:You've heard of Puck because you've been on Dylan's podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes. But Tyler, our intern, has not heard of Puck. Okay. And he's heard of all of these other
Speaker 3:You haven't heard of Helgate, you wouldn't know about. That's more of like a New York left leaning
Speaker 1:Tyler, do you know No. Okay. Do you Status?
Speaker 3:No. Status was started by Oliver Darcy. So I and he came from CNN, I believe. So, like, we should move him maybe over there that's happening is some people are logos and some people are faces. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, you guys chose to put TBPN as your logo. Yeah. And I'm I'm curious. I'm happy that Feed Me is not my face and it's my logo.
Speaker 1:You want the brand to to to grow.
Speaker 2:But Feed Me is starting to become more of a platform.
Speaker 1:Platform company.
Speaker 3:Bingo.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Would we
Speaker 2:left off Punch Bowl. Punch Bowl
Speaker 3:is yeah. I mean, they're ex Politico. Right?
Speaker 1:Okay. So I what what I'm actually hearing is that East Coast underground is really sort of a further post trad, post legacy. Maybe they're post legacy.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of them are post legacy. I think the difference between them and, like, an Alex is a lot of them have raised, like, tens of millions of dollars to get their things off the ground. But their newsletter businesses
Speaker 1:But so they're thinking less independent media
Speaker 2:We needed a category for heavily VC backed Yeah.
Speaker 3:You really do. You really do. Because we're gonna be watching how those play out in the next few years or months.
Speaker 1:Yes. Well, are there any are there any major major corrections that you think we should make? Do you think we got any of this wildly wrong?
Speaker 3:No. I I mean, it's really interesting that you guys, the East Coast underground thing because those are the publications people are like wringing their hands. Is that the like going crazy over in New York City.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:And maybe your audience is
Speaker 1:I definitely think these folks need to be over here.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think we can redistribute the underground.
Speaker 1:Yes. Because you you can basically see it it goes like
Speaker 3:I mean, New York Max is not underground.
Speaker 1:Tech, more tech here, and then politics is kind of running through this way. But then over here, you have some tech, and then over here, you have some tech.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Those can be sort of redistributed.
Speaker 1:Next to each other?
Speaker 3:Status, I would call post legacy. But
Speaker 1:Okay. But it's almost like there's some difference because these were started five, ten years ago. Correct? Like, puck is not this year. Puck didn't start this year.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 3:Puck started, I think, like, three years ago.
Speaker 1:Oh, three years ago. Okay. That is pretty recent.
Speaker 3:And they raised It's not
Speaker 6:quite as
Speaker 4:as well. 20,000,000. It's not quite as
Speaker 1:recent.
Speaker 7:And they
Speaker 3:also just acquired Airmail, which is Grady Carter's sort
Speaker 2:of Can you hit the can you hit the gong for Puck for raising 20,000,000?
Speaker 1:But but
Speaker 3:the big story with Puck right now is that they just acquired Airmail.
Speaker 1:Okay. What's Airmail? Who's that?
Speaker 3:Grain Carter Yeah. The great editor of Vanity Fair.
Speaker 2:Okay. There we go. So he's more You about that? Mail in the post Definitely. Legacy media?
Speaker 3:Air mail is something else. It I mean, it still is. It's still in existence.
Speaker 2:But Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's sort of like, you go It's it's very luxury. So it's like, this is what happened in this resort in Sweden. The This is like the crazy, like, thousand word story about it and every, you know, sort of 20 words, there's a big Hermes ad. So it's like Amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's Let's
Speaker 2:give it
Speaker 3:up for Hermes.
Speaker 2:Meyer in the chat says, I think this needs to be three-dimensional to better illustrate the
Speaker 1:I agree. I agree. Okay. Well, that concludes
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad we could clear up the media landscape because there's been so much debate lately, and sometimes you need to, you know, expand in order to really help
Speaker 1:I mean, we were joking about this being completely schizo, but We're add barstool. Yeah. We gotta add barstool. Okay. Let's make some notes.
Speaker 1:We'll do a v two before we release the next the next iteration, but we'll get something there. Let's go through the mansion section. I want some advice on what is a buy, what is a sell. Before we do, let me tell you about restream.com. One livestream, 30 plus 30 plus destinations, multistream, reach your audience wherever they are.
Speaker 1:Well, you said you said that you were interested to talk about Carl Icahn's NYC penthouse. Is that correct? Are you familiar
Speaker 3:with this? Carl Icahn pasta at the restaurant. I think it's like two blocks from his house. Oh, yeah. There's this restaurant called I think it's called Iltenello.
Speaker 3:It's an Italian restaurant and they have like a $20 Carl Icahn pasta. Looked this up recently.
Speaker 2:Late 20?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because it's not exciting. It's like it's like a very simple pasta but he ordered That's a that's So I think one of the things if you buy there, you can sort of like always take friends to that place and sort of get into well, know, who who used to own my apartment.
Speaker 1:Who?
Speaker 3:Carl Icahn. Like No way. You do that
Speaker 1:every time. Oh, oh, you live there. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Okay. That's, you know, a neighborhood. You can have maybe rename the pasta if you learn if you move there, you know.
Speaker 1:Icahn has also entertained numerous corporate giants of the apartment including computer titan Michael Dell, Apple CEO Tim Cook, Netflix co founder Reed Hastings. He He would it is he he was hanging out with Dell. It was pretty fun. It's $23,000,000 property. Let me see.
Speaker 2:How many square feet?
Speaker 3:People are liking the lifestyle news. You guys should talk about restaurants more.
Speaker 1:We should. The apartment has views around the city restaurants. Including Central Park, dramatic double height foyer, has a circle staircase, 23, 250 units. I'm not I'm not sure how big this is. Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:It is 14,000 square feet. It's a combination. Why is that why is that sad? That's huge for Manhattan. That's massive.
Speaker 1:14,000 square feet is the combination of three apartments that were purchased over forty years. And so he slowly built this, like, larger and larger their fifty third. Does that make a difference? Well Is that material? Like, would you know Manhattan that well to know?
Speaker 2:I would hope so. I would hope you know it that well.
Speaker 3:I I know it that well.
Speaker 1:I I I don't know the difference. So it is on, the the apartment atop Museum Tower on Manhattan's West 50 Third Street spans the 50 First And 50 Second Floors. It has 14,000
Speaker 3:square buy.
Speaker 1:You think that's a buy?
Speaker 2:A buy. Yeah. 23 rating.
Speaker 1:So so Carl Icahn has said inbound. Carl Icahn has said, the billionaire is unsure why his beautiful apartment on West 50 Third Street hasn't found a buyer yet. You think you agree with that take. It it doesn't make sense. Somebody needs to step up.
Speaker 3:Yeah. For 20 step up after this. Sorry. You know?
Speaker 1:Okay. So you could get 150 Third Street, 14,000 square foot apartment
Speaker 3:or you can I like that he say in the story that
Speaker 2:mean, so here here's the thing? So he had a Hindenburg research report On him? On on
Speaker 1:On his apartment? Empire.
Speaker 2:On his empire. And so I think and Puck has an article here. I just searched Carl Icahn fall off.
Speaker 4:This is And
Speaker 2:Puck pulls up fall off. Carl Icahn on how to lose 20,000,000,000. So I think people don't wanna buy the apartment because Oh,
Speaker 1:bad luck.
Speaker 2:They're worried about negative aura.
Speaker 3:But you call a priest, you call you got some sage, you
Speaker 2:just sort of it up.
Speaker 3:Okay. That's every apartment in New York.
Speaker 1:So for 23,000,000, it's it's fixable. You can make it work. Okay. What about this Delmar Beach house for $50,000,000? This one was actually sold.
Speaker 1:I can hold it up here. A beachfront compound with a ping pong pavilion. Are you pro ping pong?
Speaker 3:Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Rank these Ping pong
Speaker 2:kind of fell off.
Speaker 1:Rank these paddle sports. Ping pong, paddle. What's the other one called?
Speaker 3:I don't like sports that were invented in the
Speaker 1:last Yeah. Penis is the tennis is the top. Yeah. And then ping pong? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Padel. Padel.
Speaker 3:And what's the other one?
Speaker 1:And then pickleball's at the bottom. Yes. Pickleball, it just has a terrible name.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 1:The word doesn't sound good. Oh, here's the picture of the house. So 50,000,000. It has 6,000 square feet, seven bedrooms. How would you rank this?
Speaker 1:I will keep I will keep giving you extra information. Basically, Del Mar is San Diego County.
Speaker 6:It is
Speaker 3:That's really not my kind of place.
Speaker 1:But No?
Speaker 3:Yeah. What's pulling you It's kind
Speaker 1:of the Hamptons Of Los Angeles.
Speaker 2:Kind of a brutal view.
Speaker 3:Don't say that.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a It's like Look how brutal
Speaker 1:better Hamptons.
Speaker 4:Don't say that.
Speaker 1:Like, if someone was, like, from first principles, let's just make the Hamptons better, they would come up with Del Mar.
Speaker 2:But look how brutal the view is from the pool.
Speaker 3:You're I don't think this was the best photo they could have ran.
Speaker 1:You can see the beach.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can
Speaker 3:see the
Speaker 2:beach behind the staircase, like, through this little sliver.
Speaker 1:Oh, so so so are you an infinity pool guy? You want the you want the pool straight out to the ocean? Of course. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, the seller is a limited liability company tied to Sandra Nafts whose family has been major cattle ranchers over a century in Arizona, California, and Oregon. Land land family. Land maxing.
Speaker 2:Land is the most underrated asset.
Speaker 1:Completed last year, the oceanfront compound first came on the market for 75,000,000, but the price has been reduced. It finally sold for $550,000,000. The listing agent says remarkable sale for San Diego coastal real estate agent. Property not my includes a 4,500 square foot main house.
Speaker 2:I agree that somebody would have to pay you quite a lot to live there.
Speaker 1:It is crazy to
Speaker 8:get That's
Speaker 3:not my kind of beach and that's not my kind of house.
Speaker 1:It's crazy to get to get half the space and you're in Del Mar, is cool, you're not in Manhattan. You would think that Manhattan would just be more expensive and you're paying twice as much for half the space. Yeah. I say take ICON's property. That makes no sense to me.
Speaker 2:What else?
Speaker 1:What about what what about Hawaii? What what's your take on Hawaii?
Speaker 3:Thin ones.
Speaker 1:The it's the it's the Hamptons Of The Pacific. Do you agree?
Speaker 3:The only thing I'm curious about with Hawaii is I really wanna visit a Zuck's ranch and meet those cows.
Speaker 2:Okay. Meet those cows.
Speaker 1:You wanna meet those cows specifically? Yes. You don't just wanna see how big the property is? The cows specifically
Speaker 3:I'm curious about what he's sort of doing there with the he's obsessed with like breeding the perfect cow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We missed we they had Zuck Burgers Yeah. At the Metaconnect event that we were live from and we missed we we we just got really busy podcast.
Speaker 1:It's basically impossible to eat while you're streaming because you have to eat talk on the microphone.
Speaker 3:None of them could have put one aside.
Speaker 2:Do you guys have any?
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. No. No one had any.
Speaker 2:Wow. Missed opportunity. Missed opportunity.
Speaker 1:So Catherine Conrad spent a per decade perfecting the gardens at her Honolulu home Overlooking the ocean, the estate has granite pathways that wind around a Carrara marble fountain. I don't know what that is, actually. An antique pergola cost about $40,000. Her favorite view of the garden is at night when the cypress monkey pod and flowering Tacoma trees are illuminated.
Speaker 2:She's trying to pitch the monkey pod as a feature. Yeah. Sounds like a bug.
Speaker 1:Yes. You have a monkey pod. I guess that's like It's a It's like a cat tree for a people
Speaker 3:to visit you in Hawaii too. Like, you have
Speaker 2:to The time the time zone is so brutal.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You have neighbors you love maybe or you meet new friends. But if you're if you're buying in California or New York, someone's always gonna be a
Speaker 1:Totally. Totally.
Speaker 2:Also feel like as for the celebrities out there, it really puts a target on your back when anytime there's every time there's been like a natural disaster, it's like, oh, the
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, the rock It's
Speaker 5:because you took all
Speaker 3:our water.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well well that, but there was the tsunami warning last year and they were getting really canceled for that and then
Speaker 3:Canceled for
Speaker 2:the tsunami. The fight. Well, no. No. Because apparently, they had, like, private roads that that every, you know, everyday citizens were backed up in traffic trying to escape the tsunami, and they they were not inclined to open their private roads.
Speaker 3:Gonna be more controversial to buy in Hawaii.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. Avoid. Point eight of an acre. It was the first lot was bought for 7,550,000.00, then 4,000,000 for the adjacent parcel.
Speaker 1:So you put two two properties together around 11,000,000 in land value, then 12,000,000 in renovation. They're asking 34. It's a four bedroom, 5,200 square foot house, ocean views. It also has a Pilates studio. Is that a feature for you?
Speaker 3:I like to leave my house for Pilates.
Speaker 1:You wanna leave your house for Pilates. So at 34,000,000, are you buying or are you selling? No. You're not buying. You're passing.
Speaker 3:Passing.
Speaker 1:What about this house in Puerto Rico? I I haven't been to Puerto Rico in a very long time. Before we move on, we gotta do another ad. Do you have the ads list? I don't have it today.
Speaker 1:Let me pull it up. Here we go. Sorry. Privy. Wallet infrastructure for every Privy helps It works, John.
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Speaker 2:So, yes, Puerto Rico was very much a thing Oh. During twenty twenty twenty.
Speaker 1:Woah. That is crazy.
Speaker 3:See, their invite they're saying, come hang out.
Speaker 1:I have a friend yes. Who Yes. They want people to come visit. I have a friend who would refer to that as a gulag. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you you get all your boys to come and visit and hang out, and they all sleep in Serve. Bunk beds. Yeah. But you really could sleep, like, with 12 people there or something. So this this mansion has a Is this thousand square feet, eight bedrooms, a basketball court, a pool.
Speaker 1:It is for sale for $65,000,000.
Speaker 2:Is it in that zone? I think I don't know if it's the Four Seasons or there's another there's another hotel company that has effectively set up a mini city in Puerto Rico. You know about this?
Speaker 1:There is information about the Ritz Carlton in here.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's the Ritz.
Speaker 1:That's right. Simon said he and his wife had little intention to buy in Puerto Rico before stopping by the Ritz Carlton sales office in 2015. They quickly became enamored with the idea of building a house there, buying a one acre parcel of land on one of the community's golf courses. The parcel overlooks the ocean. It was completely impulsive.
Speaker 1:There were a few false starts. The phalics got the keys to the new home in 2017 just before hurricane Maria hit, closing down the resort community and resulting in minor damage, water damage to the home. Soon after the community recovered, COVID hit. In recent years, the phalics have spent long weekends and holidays at the property as well as several weeks in the summer. They are selling it because their grandchildren are older and don't spend it much as much time on the property.
Speaker 1:Puerto Rico's luxury housing market has boomed in recent years. Thanks to tax incentives and the rise of remote work. It's become very attractive.
Speaker 2:They undid a lot of those incentives or they they you there's some people that are grandfathered in, but now they're just sort of trapped in in The Caribbean.
Speaker 1:Yes. And so this is, a lot in the Dorado Beach
Speaker 2:Yeah. Dorado.
Speaker 1:That's a Ritz Carlton Reserve resort. 65,000,000. Buy or pass?
Speaker 3:Pass, but maybe try to get I don't know if those Disney posters are coming with the house, but I feel like the posters in the film room, you could flip those.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Split them off.
Speaker 3:Or something. You know?
Speaker 2:Break it up. Break up big Puerto Rico. Sell it for parts. We gotta get we gotta talk about JPMorgan's new headquarters.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Michael Dell shared it. I have a post pulled up here.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes. This is the peak performance.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to get your reaction to this this setup. Can we pull up this post in the timeline?
Speaker 1:It'd be great to be able to pull up post both in the timeline and there. That's the future.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what for now Can we not pull it up there?
Speaker 1:While we're pulling that up, let me tell you about Cognition. They're the makers of Devon. Devon is the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team.
Speaker 2:Alright. Pull up this post from Litquidity.
Speaker 1:And we'll put it on there. We don't need to put it on the on the back screen. We can actually just pull it on the
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep. And while we're doing that, let me tell you about figma.com. Think bigger. Build build faster. Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
Speaker 1:You can get started for free. Did you see the what else is going on here?
Speaker 3:Would you guys buy anywhere besides California?
Speaker 2:No. New York eventually.
Speaker 1:California has so much. I feel like I just wanna like grow the map of places I go that are driving distance.
Speaker 2:We're both we're both excited
Speaker 1:Santa about Barbara.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The Montecito, LA. Or LA. Really too far.
Speaker 1:But even Big Bear
Speaker 3:So you just wanna buy houses close
Speaker 9:to each other?
Speaker 2:Well Houses that are less than an hour away from each other.
Speaker 1:In in in California, in LA specifically Yeah. You can get in a car and in two hours be in a completely different biome. Right. Like, you can be in the desert or you can be in the ocean Yeah. Or you can be on an island.
Speaker 2:So here's the they got video footage of the JPM analysts going to their new workstation. This is a post from liquidity, but pull pull up the post from Michael Dell that shows the actual setup here, and we need to rate my rate my office.
Speaker 3:Did you guys hear that employees have to pay for the gym? What?
Speaker 2:At JPM?
Speaker 3:Why? There was a story about it.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess that's just people were
Speaker 3:not I mean, employees were not happy about it. They were like, why do we have to pay to go to this?
Speaker 1:I guess it's just such a big organization that if you don't put some sort of limit, people will, like, kind of all flood right on January 1 or something.
Speaker 3:And I'm sure that they have
Speaker 1:It's just kind of like a
Speaker 3:flow I'm sure that they have, like, a a health account or something
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Towards it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So this is what peak performance looks like for sure. This is beautiful.
Speaker 2:I actually I love it. I saw this setup and I was and I thought I wanna recreate this here.
Speaker 1:I'm going a 100%.
Speaker 2:I'm down to be in the trenches.
Speaker 1:Yes. This is what the trenches look like.
Speaker 3:I like that they have the thing that new hotels have now where you just you have the outlets right there Yeah. And the desks. That's nice. Not seeing chairs. Having chat
Speaker 2:QBT add up numbers for you while sitting in that setup.
Speaker 1:So what I'm interested is, like, when was this taken? Because I thought they
Speaker 3:worked out. I don't think that's a real photo. That doesn't really look like a real person.
Speaker 2:Michael Dell just posted congratulations JP Morgan on opening your new headquarters.
Speaker 1:Because he sold them all the monitors because the monitors are Dell monitors.
Speaker 3:I think this is a rendering.
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:No way. This is real.
Speaker 1:I think this is real.
Speaker 2:You don't think that jawline possible? That's that's pure Pause j
Speaker 5:p m power.
Speaker 3:Don't know. I don't know. I have to see it for myself. I emailed their team
Speaker 2:Even Michael Dell replied to his own post and said we are monitoring the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You don't do that on some slop. I think they finished building out the office. Michael, that was a good The
Speaker 3:office looks like slop.
Speaker 2:Look at those beautiful Dell monitors.
Speaker 1:I will fight you on this.
Speaker 2:This is this is
Speaker 3:I wanna go. Maybe that's where my shooting That
Speaker 1:is where you're shooting. Yeah. This is the spot. We we were hopscaping and jumping Yeah. People that will actually
Speaker 3:I need to go. I need to see I need to see it for myself.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:Last thing Have you
Speaker 3:seen it?
Speaker 2:Last thing we No. Have to
Speaker 9:It's beautiful. Oh, it's
Speaker 1:a whole new building? And and it has, like, crazy LED at the top. Right? There's a crazy Yeah. Light show.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:It's cool. There's, like, a rock.
Speaker 1:There's like a
Speaker 3:big story about, like, the rocks that they brought into.
Speaker 1:Dwayne The Rock Johnson? You should bring him in. Have him do it. I I feel like when you when you set up a new, a new fortress of finance, you should have, like, an inaugural an inaugural lock in, and you should bring in, like, a like, Warren Buffett should come and, like, lock in and and and and type the first row in a spreadsheet and be like, yes. Like, we've opened the office.
Speaker 1:Jamie Dimon himself has come and and and done and written the first cell of the spreadsheet, and now the office is open for business. It's like it's like smashing a a bottle of wine across a boat.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 1:You know, you need to christen a new office.
Speaker 2:Let's pull up this post from none other than the New York Post, which I don't think they made it on the media landscape, but They did. Mobsters ran rigged poker games at Kylie Jenner's Lux NYC pad while she still owned it. Apparently, Travis Scott also was was on the owned owned a piece of it too. What what's going on here? You you think this all ties back into the to the whole
Speaker 3:Isn't this part of the story that came out yesterday about
Speaker 1:I just got an email from you nineteen minutes ago. You're sitting right here.
Speaker 3:I it's crazy. Right?
Speaker 1:It's crazy.
Speaker 3:Isn't this part of the story with the NBA gambling? Like, the there
Speaker 1:I haven't been following this too
Speaker 3:the headline yesterday on the Times about the NBA coach gambling, there was in the headline, it also mentioned mafia. So unless there's two mafia poker rings going on, which is totally possible in a city like New York. I think they're connected.
Speaker 7:And I I
Speaker 3:wrote about it yesterday and one of my readers emailed me. I'm not gonna say who it was.
Speaker 9:Sure. But
Speaker 3:he was like, you wanna talk about this Mhmm. I was there. The game was held at gunpoint. What? If you wanna talk about it.
Speaker 3:And I said, sure. Then he said, the neighbor had
Speaker 1:What is game held at gunpoint? Like, someone's forcing you to play poker?
Speaker 3:Well, you guys don't play poker. Sometimes that happens.
Speaker 1:What do you mean that happens?
Speaker 3:Guns, drugs.
Speaker 1:But but but in what scenario?
Speaker 3:Mafia.
Speaker 1:But but under under what conditions am I like, I'm really enjoying playing poker with you, so you will die if you
Speaker 3:don't Oh, I think it's more like
Speaker 1:They're just having so much fun?
Speaker 3:Yeah. You do a little you have a little too much fun and somebody like pulls something out they're not supposed to pull out and Mhmm. Yeah. I've never had a gun at a poker game but I've heard This
Speaker 1:is why I'm not leaving California. This this New
Speaker 4:York I have none of this seems
Speaker 1:crazy to me.
Speaker 3:There's none of this here.
Speaker 1:Yeah. This is this is not There's
Speaker 2:a post here on the on the sports gambling arrest. Mike over on X with 2,000,000 views on this post. The NBA is very concerned about the multiple arrests made as a result of the s FBI's sports gambling raid. Use codes code multiple arrests for a 30% profit boost on a three leg parlay with Draft Kings, the official gambling partner of the NBA.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 3:I am glad that people are still playing poker in person as opposed to just only playing online. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's kind of a white pill for sure. Touching grass.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Touching chips. I used to have a poker podcast.
Speaker 1:Really?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was called chips and dip and it's about poker and chips. Potato chips.
Speaker 1:Potato chips. Yes. Were you were you like a good poker player?
Speaker 3:I am I was my ex was like a good poker player and then our friend, the third guy is also very good and he's borderline addict.
Speaker 2:He's gambling addict. Cool. Good luck
Speaker 1:to him.
Speaker 3:He's doing okay. He might start writing about poker.
Speaker 1:He should go work in a hedge fund or something. Yeah. Put put it to work.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 1:He should go lock in. He should be he should do the inaugural gamble. The first gamble at the new the new Morgan Stanley HQ. It's Morgan Stanley. Right?
Speaker 2:No. It's JPM.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's JPM. Okay. JPM. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. The the the first the first fat fingered trade. This is important. Anyway, thank you so much for stopping by.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having It's a blast.
Speaker 1:We know we have to get you you have to get out of here.
Speaker 3:Really fun. Gotta go to the Hammer Museum.
Speaker 1:Breaking. She will be The
Speaker 2:Hammer Museum. I didn't know that was a real
Speaker 1:could go by and and say, oh, you play Don't say that. Be careful.
Speaker 3:Okay. Bye, guys.
Speaker 2:Bye. Great hanging. Great hanging. Cheers.
Speaker 1:While we rearranged the seats, let me tell you about Vanta dot com. Automate compliance, manage risk, prove trust continuously. Vanta's trust management platform takes the security and compliance process, manual work out of a security compliance process and replace it with continuous automation.
Speaker 2:Alex Heath says Snap is in talks to raise at least 1,000,000,000 for AR Glasses, multiple investors involved including Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund. Plan is to move specs into a new independent subsidiary Spinning it out. And structure Wow. Similarly to Waymo and Alphabet.
Speaker 1:I wanna get Evan on the show so badly. I think it would be a very
Speaker 2:We're working on it.
Speaker 1:Conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Working on it. It will happen soon.
Speaker 1:Who Samsung just launched a Vision Pro competitor. Right? Samsung Galaxy XR, the headset. So so they're and and Google's announcing it today. This is sixteen minutes ago.
Speaker 1:The Samsung Galaxy XR is powered powered by Android XR, and it's supposed to be basically at the Apple Vision Pro level in terms of fidelity, I think. But they obviously have a YouTube app because it's, you know, a a Google partnership. And so you on on day one, they have a lot more partners because Android's been kind of a better steward to the developer community than Apple. And I think a lot of a lot of the a lot of the obvious developer partners that would go and build apps for the Apple Vision Pro are taking a wait and see approach because they, don't want to they wanna have more leverage over Apple instead of just showing up and being like, okay. I'm I'm gonna be paying the Apple tax on on day one.
Speaker 1:They're saying, hey. Like, why don't you go get the audience first, Apple? Make sure that there's actually a 100,000,000 DAUs of this thing like the iPhone before I build an app for this.
Speaker 2:Yep. Speaking of smart devices, Kohler, the toilet manufacturer is making a new toilet camera that provides health insights based on your bathroom breaks. What? Which is insane because
Speaker 8:That's an insane.
Speaker 2:Throne, you know, the startup Throne Oh, yeah. Is doing this. I really thought nobody would
Speaker 1:Touch it?
Speaker 2:Do No. Nobody would go and compete. I I thought it was like an insane idea. Yeah. But at least no one else would go and compete.
Speaker 2:And then Kohler, you know, obviously a a major manufacturer decided, I'm I'm sure they were somewhat inspired by Throne Yeah. To go get into the game of toilet cameras health tracking. So we'll see how this plays out.
Speaker 1:He's very funny. Let me tell you about graphite dot dev. Code review for the age of AI. Graphite helps teams like GitHub ship higher quality software faster. You can get started for free.
Speaker 1:Gabriel
Speaker 2:is posting This is wild an article from the Times that said female spies are waging sex warfare to steal Silicon Valley secrets.
Speaker 1:I think this is this is a funny story from the Times. Is is this the Times of India? I I think it's the Times of India, but the this has been the meme of, like, the the CCP spy girlfriends. And and we London. We sort of the Times of London.
Speaker 1:Okay. So we we had a whole there are a lot of different times. There are a whole bunch of different, like, iterations of that of that viral concept of, like, is is the girlfriend a spy? And then the backlash to, like, well, you shouldn't judge the girlfriend because she might be a spy and going back and forth back and forth on that. So it's interesting that The Times of London is this just something where Europe takes two months to get to the current thing on Axe?
Speaker 1:Because this this is a this is an article that literally just says what Axe was talking about four months ago. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that I mean, this
Speaker 1:Or is there new information?
Speaker 2:Ongoing thing. I think, maybe what they've discovered and, you know, we're we're not factual media, so we don't need to get into kind of the truth here. But they're saying some of these spies are even marrying and having children with their targets which is really
Speaker 1:You know what a good have you seen The Americans? That's a great movie or a great TV show. The Americans great. It's
Speaker 2:Atlas says, geez, I would sure hate for a beautiful Chinese spy to wage sex warfare against me for my production secrets. My production secrets are super important. I would hate for this to happen. Did he go mega viral for this? Yeah.
Speaker 2:15 thousand likes. He got Elon response. That's great. Near has go been going on a tear highlighting Andreessen backed companies, and there's definitely some that are
Speaker 1:Specifically speedrun. These are
Speaker 2:a 16 z speedrun companies under, Andrew Andrew Chen.
Speaker 1:And it's more of a it's more of an incubator or accelerator?
Speaker 2:It's an accelerator.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have the same weight as, like, a David George came in with the growth team and, like, actually, like, did some analysis. It's, like Definitely.
Speaker 5:They're ripping checks.
Speaker 2:But it but it's out, you know, it's out of their their speed run fund Okay. Run by Andrew Chen. Sure. And, yeah. So this one is Cheddar.
Speaker 2:It's the TikTok of sports wagering.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Unlike other platforms, they allow players under 21 and in forty six days.
Speaker 1:Is is this from a deck or from their website or something?
Speaker 2:I think this this is from the speedrun.
Speaker 1:How did Near find this?
Speaker 2:I think this is from the speedrun website.
Speaker 1:This is ridiculous. Okay. Wait. There's another one. I need to talk about double speed.
Speaker 1:I need you to under like, explain this to me. The the the founders in the chat going back and forth in the replies. So Nir says a 16 z back double speed lets you control thousands of social media accounts with AI, ensuring they look as human as possible. Quote, never pay a human again. Control is all you need.
Speaker 1:I can imagine some oh, I'd I was I was about to steal, man, this, but it's really hard. I I, like, I can imagine that puppeteering a thousand devices might be useful for something or other in, a data generation.
Speaker 2:So double speed, I think they're trying to position it as this is an alternative to influencer marketing, but it does look and feel more like an influence operation. So I would be
Speaker 1:This is very
Speaker 2:nation states typically take this kind of thing on where they build, you know, a phone farm.
Speaker 1:This feels like bot farming. It feels like very much against the t the terms and conditions.
Speaker 2:Other one that was wild.
Speaker 1:Hold on. But, like, Near went through this whole flow where where Near is is is just quoting them, which is interesting because Near's not really dunking here. Like, Near's just saying a 16 z back double speed lets you control thousands of social media accounts with AI. It's basically just the same as what's on their website copy. The, one of the founders or the employees automating attention at double speed, Zuhair Lakhani, chimes in and says, let me know when you sign up.
Speaker 1:We can help you grow your company, Orin. And Nir says, it wants me it wants to charge me 5 k before I try it, it seems. Zuhair says, sorry. We don't do free trials. Let me know if you have budget to allocate, and we'll get you onboarded.
Speaker 1:Day says, you can do 2,000. Zuhair says, yes. Join our Discord. But the founder, I wait. Is it is this is this this is a founder of speed run cohort five.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's the founder. Bessart Copa says So people are calling this like morally lame and impoverished and Bessard Copa says, how so? There are already a million bot farms around the worlds. They wreaked havoc on our elections not so long ago. Shouldn't the best ones be built in America and pioneer the latest tech and rules to govern it?
Speaker 2:Wait. So he's saying they have wreaked havoc
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:On the world, but so we should build it in America?
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. It's basically like, oh, yeah. You know how
Speaker 2:I would like this. I would like that.
Speaker 4:We should make
Speaker 2:it in America. I think double speeds should pivot to being a defense tech company and just work with our government to run foreign operations.
Speaker 1:This is good.
Speaker 2:America has such a long history of running various influence operations in far off regions of the world
Speaker 1:that Spam from first principles.
Speaker 2:Here's another one. Edgar is bringing real money engagement into free to play sweepstakes, America's number one social casino for slot lovers. Lovers.
Speaker 1:These are insane.
Speaker 2:I can't believe this is real. I had to go check the speed
Speaker 1:It is wild comparing these to the the Nat Friedman cohort that he did, which Julius was a part of, julius.ai. What analysis do you wanna run? Chat with your data and get expert level insights. What was that?
Speaker 2:There's so so the last one we have to cover is covered, which is bet on your bills. OnlyFans This is so dark. I can't even is Bet on your bills with covered. OnlyFans child support and last night's Uber.
Speaker 5:Stop.
Speaker 2:Wipe them from your credit card by playing your favorite casino games all from the comfort of our app. No VPN, no crypto deposits. And so my only my my reaction here I mean, John, you're gonna be impressed by this. 6,000,000 views on this post and only 292 likes.
Speaker 1:So bad. That it means that someone like nuclear ratio them. But
Speaker 2:I I mean, such an insane missed opportunity to say bet on your debt. Right? Like, say bet on your bills. Yeah. This is like bet on your own debt.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not debt.
Speaker 2:This is potentially the most American
Speaker 1:Because you've already paid it. Or maybe you're in debt.
Speaker 2:No. But you're you can wipe them if you if you bet right, you get them wiped from your state. So bad.
Speaker 1:It's so funny that just a just a quote tweet that's from from hero thousand faces that just says societal breakdown gets more likes with 30,000 views. Like, the like ratio is insane on this. Wow.
Speaker 2:Trey says, this is incredible. Double your bills or nothing.
Speaker 1:What's funny is, like, there was a guy who was a really cool, like, kind of funny designer who was designing stuff like this, little modals. And one of them was Apple Pay with a double or nothing button. And people were like, oh, that's really funny. But, like, to see it actually productized is like, oh, like, we we we were joking about that.
Speaker 2:Like Yeah. The the interesting thing is, you know, a lot of these kinds of ideas, kinds of apps end up being massive businesses. Right. But you don't typically see, you know, venture funds backing them. They typically Well boot your app.
Speaker 2:This is of the challenges of scaling a a venture platform. Right? Sure. It's It's like, you know, there's tons of partners at Andreessen that probably would have passed on these deals. But Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, individual partners have, autonomy and Yeah. They can do what they want. Well,
Speaker 1:stick to the infrastructure, baby. Go to Turbo Puffer. Search every byte. Serverless vector and full text search. Bird from built built from first principles on object storage, fast, 10 x cheaper, extremely scalable.
Speaker 2:Did you see this at Gummy Bear? Basil says, a Gummy Bear company casually dropping revolutionary battery technology for $25 on on Amazon, the lightest ever of this capacity, and pretending nothing happened. This is one of the funniest things of all time. This is Horibo. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't actually think this is Horibo. I think this is a is
Speaker 1:Someone stealing the Horibo brand?
Speaker 2:Well, may may hopefully, it's not.
Speaker 1:The gummy bear company. So, yeah, people are immediately wondering, like, is this real? Is this actually the best power storage per dollar possible or per weight? And so Michael went ahead and bought one, and here's his findings. He says its weight is 286 grams, just a little bit over what they claim.
Speaker 1:The capacity is 83 watt hours. The printed printed on the battery, it says capacity 20,000 milliamp hours, or 77 watt hours. So I'm measuring in excess of what is what is claimed. I think they're stating, the voltage pieces, what makes the battery capacity measurements nebulous, but watt hours don't have that issue, and I'm getting better than claimed. Minimum charging current of of point five of an amp less than this battery pack turns itself off.
Speaker 1:Not able to recharge the battery via the built in cable. That's weird. So overall, my conclusion is this battery is the real deal. It meets the claim capacity and pretty much hits the weight spec. Wow.
Speaker 1:So maybe you gotta go pick one these up. Very, very funny, bud.
Speaker 2:Oracle just secured a $38,000,000,000 debt deal to finance two new data centers. They said they couldn't let them anymore. They shouldn't, but they are not listening. 23,000,000,000 will go toward a Texas site and nearly 15,000,000,000 towards Wisconsin. Ted Jang says, here we go.
Speaker 2:The debt finance deals are coming.
Speaker 1:And we got Chase Lockmiller from Crusoe coming on the show
Speaker 2:in about an hour to break down his series e. The star the the godfather of Stargate. Yes. Star Lord. The Star Lord.
Speaker 2:Himself. Suttrini put this out a bit ago according to Ted. Something that has been a relative comfort in being able to stay long despite calls for an AI bubble so far has been the fact that most of the CapEx has come from cash cash flow. You don't have a bubble really until the majority of the expansion is done on debt. We have yet to see significant financing but that absolutely should be something to watch.
Speaker 2:On one hand, that leaves another leg of the trade leveraging up still results in more money being spent. On the other, it sets the stage for consequences of not realizing ROI that we haven't really had to contend with in the existing paradigm. With Microsoft ten year bonds trading at at a g spread of three basis points, there's still a lot of room for the hyperscalers to issue debt or tap private credit to fund continued spending on AI. However, this also induces a lot more fragility. Going forward, monitoring the share of AI CapEx that is financed rather than funded from cash flow is probably the most important aspect of determining exactly where we are in the cycle.
Speaker 2:Again, there's there's been a number of players using debt. X x AI has you've been using debt. Meta's already tapped the debt markets. I feel like Satya just generally is a lot less inclined to to to lean in and lever up too much. But there's a post here from junk bond investor.
Speaker 2:It says, just offloaded some data center construction debt to a school teacher's four zero one k. My father is a retired school teacher. So hopefully
Speaker 1:He didn't get burned here.
Speaker 2:I have to be he's gonna be a little frustrated with me if that if that ends up being the case. But I'm sure that's happening. With Nexperia, there's been a little little chaos on that front. Nexperia, the semiconductor company out of The Netherlands. They notified its Japanese automotive customers that it may no longer be able to guarantee supply, triggering renewed concern about upheaval at the chip maker.
Speaker 2:So some chaos over on the European front.
Speaker 1:Before we do the next post, let me tell you about Google AI Studio, the fastest way from prompt production with Gemini. Chat with models, vod code, monitor usage. Do you think they everyone's talking about the AI bubble. They never talk about the podcasting bubble. Maybe we should be getting some more attention.
Speaker 1:Everyone's saying like, wow. TVPN is feed me these businesses. If they don't work out, if they don't deliver, the entire global economy will collapse.
Speaker 2:Well, no. And on a more serious note, we did hear of a podcast raising at a at a half half a billion dollar valuation that has that is burning money. So that could that could be a sign.
Speaker 1:There might be.
Speaker 2:Packy has a post here. Never change, Masa. This guy rocks. And it's a post that says, SoftBank hunts for humanoid robot startups. SoftBank's Masa Yoshi's son has long predicted a future where robots would outnumber people and take over many jobs from humans.
Speaker 2:But some of SoftBank's bets in robotics over the past ten years, such as robot company Pepper, have not panned out. Now the company is renewing its robot ambitions, particularly in robots that resemble humans.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine Brad Eyed Cock reading this? He's gotta be just like, oh, let's go. Like, I wanna be the one.
Speaker 2:Softbank up a 172% year to date.
Speaker 1:Does it feel like actually It's crazy. Time to invest in humanoid robots? I don't think it feels like a bad time at all.
Speaker 2:I think it I think it's probably true that Masa and SoftBank were too early in some of their robotics bets. Right? They bet Yeah. Really heavily, you know, a decade ago.
Speaker 1:It it this feels like a great time to be building in humanoid robots or robots generally. There's a ton of there's a ton of interesting startups, one x, and there's smaller companies, and there's supply chain stuff. And it's like it's one of those things where it's like, are you more worried about being too early or being too late? Probably too early on the on the humanoid robot side because it they're they're not quite, you know, getting deployed profitably. They're very much like research tools.
Speaker 1:They get bought by researchers, you know, one off stunts here and there. There isn't really so there there's no customer that's just like, oh, yeah. They're buying these, like, every month. They're buying more and more and more because, like, they're actually, you know, seeing increasing returns to scale.
Speaker 2:There was that story last week about Tesla buying actuators from a Chinese firm. Right? Yeah. It was like a $675,000,000 order, which to me signaled that's the kind of move you make if you're actually trying to get into production Fast. Like, in real time Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or at least have product that people can order. My my theory was that if they felt like they had more time, they might have done them themselves. Yep. Right?
Speaker 1:Well, our first guest of the show is in the Restream waiting room. Let me tell you about ProFound. Get your brand mentioned in ChatGPT. Reach millions of consumers who are using AI to discover new products and brands.
Speaker 2:Be like MongoDB, Indeed, DocuSign, RAM.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We have Sagar and Jenny from Breaking Points. Sagar, how are you?
Speaker 4:Al, it's great to see you guys. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Great to see you. Finally.
Speaker 1:Only after a million text messages every morning back and forth on the AI apocalypse and political crises have we actually just put it together that we should just hang out on the stream. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 4:Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Give everyone like a quick shape of of the actual flow of the content, like, like the the the proper form of your business.
Speaker 2:Talk to some credit. He kind of created Neo Trad Media, which is a new which is a new framework we're working on, which is new media that that sort of embodies or kind of looks and feels like
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The the So your
Speaker 1:show looks like a proper TV show. You wear a suit. Yeah. And and so we call that neo traditionalist media, neo trad media, and we're firmly trying to do that.
Speaker 4:I love it. And I and I will say one of the only reasons I am here is because both of you are bringing suits back to the bones of Silicon Valley. I know many of you are watching, right now in your Lululemon or Viore, and you don't look cool. You don't look better Yeah. Than John or Jordy or myself.
Speaker 4:You all are billionaires. Buy a suit. Stop. Just stop it.
Speaker 1:Stop it. That's great. I I I couldn't agree more. I think we're starting to have a small small effect, but it's but it's taking hold.
Speaker 2:A of people that visit the Ultradome wear suits.
Speaker 1:Well, I I like it. Pretty pretty much, like, there are gonna be tons of of AI folks, of tech people who are gonna be dragged in front of congress over this data center build out. I I think you clocked this correctly. But walk me through, is this a thesis that came from you see this coming, or you're seeing, smoke signals already? Walk me through your thesis of, like, how tech and the AI build out runs on a collision course with the average American.
Speaker 4:Yeah. The thing is, guys, and I really wanna hammer this home for people who are watching because I, you know, shocker, I think many people in Silicon Valley, do live in a bubble. One of the best parts of my job is I is do I interact, and we'll return to bubble conversation, But by the what I get to do is not only interact with a lot of people who are normal in politics, and I mean that at the very base level, not people who live in Northern Virginia. The vast majority of my audience don't live in Washington DC. Many are Uber drivers, hotel clerks, etcetera.
Speaker 4:And I start to see bubbling stuff over the last five years over cost of living. At the same time, I'm tracking the electricity story. And it doesn't take a genius to pair that with data center build out. So one of the things that I really want to flag, I think, here on the show, is that the coming data center collision, at the heart of that is about electricity. It doesn't have to be this way.
Speaker 4:One of my favorite notes is there's an analyst I follow who was in China. He had a very different view of the of this in in China, even though, of course, you know, they don't have democratic politics, but of course, they do have some level of democratic input, is they said nobody's concerned here because electricity is is considered a solved problem. We don't have a solved problem of electricity here in The United States. And in fact, worse, you know, our grid is aging, and actually things are getting worse. So with all of this capital expenditure in data centers, you are seeing a literal finite resource competition, especially in rural areas.
Speaker 4:So Virginia, the state where I live, 40% of all of our power is consumed by data centers. Oregon, for example, is some 33%. To be fair, to many of the AI people who are watching, it's not all AI. We are the hotbed, right, of of servers and Amazon and much of the federal government. But the point is is that this is bubbling up at a very organic township level.
Speaker 4:So from Arizona to Virginia, data centers actually had a mention in our more recent gubernatorial debate. Both the Republican and the Democratic candidate said that they wanted to do something about it. There's Prince William County here in Virginia where this is an active live issue, and the public is overwhelmingly against it. The city of Tucson is moving. And so if we see this continued capital expenditure go up, and especially in more rural areas, we see headlines like 267% power increases for power bills in rural areas, which are built near data centers, not to mention environmental concerns, etcetera.
Speaker 4:That's when you're gonna see people start to get dragged before congress. So Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm just curious what obviously, every air air you know, people are not gonna just watch a data center get built, you know, in their backyard and and not Yeah. You know, talk to their mayor, talk to the governor, and and actually start a conversation and a debate and ultimately create policy around this. Is there not some type of solution that would allow effectively allow data centers to pay a higher rate than everyday citizens and kind of make up the the difference?
Speaker 4:I think it's a great idea. Unfortunately, that's not how our power system works. The foundation of The United States is basically built on the fact that we're gonna build this grid, this infrastructure, and we can all kind of consume the social benefits of it. There are pieces of legislation, Jordy, of what you're talking about on the table, I think in Oregon and a few other states. But these are few and far between.
Speaker 4:I also think we've to take everybody through the story of the last twenty five years. Again, with great respect to the audience I'm speaking to, you can't be Amazon and be the second largest employer in The United States. And then in your shareholder meeting, come out and say that we want to fire 600,000 people, or at the very least, not hire 600,000 fewer people. These are people who watch their towns get decimated. Then they watch Amazon I mean, Nomadland.
Speaker 4:It's an Oscar winning film about this, you know, this this Yeah.
Speaker 2:Think I think what's what's what's so challenging about this issue is that you have these massive infrastructure projects with massive spend and almost zero job creation.
Speaker 4:Exactly. Exactly. Like like plumbers and the electricians are
Speaker 2:gonna are gonna get paid and that's great. But we've even heard stories of the plumbers and electricians being flown around on private jets because their skill set is so They're the same. So And so that's not gonna get people. But, yes. So if you if you're, you know, living in a in a little town and you're watching, you know, the the mega Yeah.
Speaker 2:Mega project gets spun up and you're getting not not only, you know, no real benefit, you know, maybe maybe you get more slop in your trough Yeah. Every day.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Can you maybe take me a click forward into let's assume the trend lines kind of continue, electricity prices go up, there's more it's it's clearly attributable to data centers, etcetera, etcetera. Like, how do the different political coalitions frame reframe themselves around this issue? Like, I imagine that there's a right wing version of tech backlash that looks one way. There's the abundance lib direction. There's going to be the the actual socialist left, and maybe they just say, like, no AI at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We're right. So, like, how do you see the different coalitions, like, grappling with what the the v two of the messaging might be here?
Speaker 4:There's gonna be a horseshoe element here. Think that the socialist left and much of the right is going to actually come in the same place of enough. And so a lot of the socialist left is actually, Bernie Sanders, I don't know if you guys saw this, right before I came on the show, just called for a breakup of OpenAI. So this is huge news. He's the first US politician actually to do so.
Speaker 2:Now What would they what is there to break up? They have chat GPT and then they have a bunch of other things that are subscale. It's like How
Speaker 4:about the nonprofit profit arm or whatever the hell
Speaker 1:you guys can explain that to me. Yeah. Yeah. I think Sam's like, I would love break it up. I I'm actually trying to break it up.
Speaker 1:I would love to just have a seat call over there.
Speaker 2:Bernie, break me
Speaker 1:up, Bernie. Yeah. Is this some sort of, like, four d chess and Sam's gotten to Bernie and told Bernie, hey. Yeah. We we we need to break it up.
Speaker 1:That's really popular messaging. And he's like, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, Bernie's probably you know, he's picking from an old tool book,
Speaker 5:so we shouldn't fall short
Speaker 1:too much. He's basically just saying let's pressure them. Let let let's make sure we have more regulation. Right?
Speaker 4:Exactly. More regulation. On the right, I mean, much of this is gonna about distrust of Sam and many of the tech guys themselves. I mean, when you have these people outwardly bragging about mass job loss, mass societal creation, there's a lot of us who are like, yeah, do I want this guy who's introducing AI porn to be the most powerful person in the world? I mean, the challenge the challenge
Speaker 2:is that the the job loss like like vision is so good for fundraising because
Speaker 4:I know.
Speaker 2:If if Yeah. You know, people are are like, hey, maybe I don't have a job in ten years. It's like, well, I want I want I want my money going into these companies. So at least I'll I'll I'll have a chance at escaping the the permanent underclass. Question for you.
Speaker 2:Social media went through, you know, and continues to go is like a perpetual backlash at this point. People say they hate it. They don't like it. They say it's bad. Many of those people still use it.
Speaker 2:How, do you think this this AI development is different than that and that a generation will just log off and or or do you think it's it'll be the same type of dynamic where people say they hate it, they're they're frustrated with the potential impacts of it, but, they still line up?
Speaker 4:That's a very astute observation. And I think it's gonna be somewhere in between. And so Actually, Jordy, this kind of gets reacted to. You put out a tweet about AGI and pornography. And what I reacted to that is I was like, yeah, AGI is not coming, guys.
Speaker 4:What's coming is porn. And what that means is the internet is just coming again. And so, you know, I downloaded the ChatGPT browser. It's it's fine. You know?
Speaker 4:It's fine. It's it's a browser. And so it's a browser that's going to serve me mean, literally, the ad read before I came in was about putting ads into Tag GPT. Wow. What a business model.
Speaker 4:Somebody should have invented it already. They did. It's called AdWords in 02/2003. So are we just competing for the exact same type of unit economics of screen time, of use, of pornography, of the very same things, which as you said, Jordy, are making us miserable because that doesn't seem very cool to me. And it also doesn't necessarily justify, let's say, 80 gain of the entire S and P 500 over the last twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4:This is the stuff actually that I text John about literally every day when I'm like, a bubble is coming. A bubble is coming. Yeah. A bubble is coming.
Speaker 1:I think I I I think the steel man of, like, the the, like, the the medium the medium case or I don't know how to put it, but it's if I told you, it's just like, well, yes, like, AI is not AGI. You're not gonna lose your job over it. It's not gonna kill anyone, but, it will help you do research better. It's better autocomplete. It's this nice tool that'll help clean things up, better spell check, better grammar check.
Speaker 1:You know, it's Better
Speaker 2:care like gods.
Speaker 1:And and and and if you're like or not. You're gonna be you're gonna be a little bit more more knowledgeable, a little bit more performant, a little bit more efficient, and it's gonna cost we're gonna need to build some data centers, but we're not gonna build, you know, so many data centers that we all lose our light and heating and AC.
Speaker 2:I think I think what
Speaker 1:That's that's a reasonable, like, abundance think moment we're gonna hang up. That's where we should
Speaker 2:the moment we are right now is that when somebody, you know, sees an AI video of, you know, the the one that went super viral a while back was like people on the roof of an apartment building and it's a pool and the glass breaks and people flow on.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like that video and videos like it are not worth for the average American an extra $100 a month, you know, an extra thousand dollars a year added to their electrical bill. Right?
Speaker 4:And so and that's the political dynamic. And that's why, John, I go, hey, all of that sounds great.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's a little worrying to put my entire retirement portfolio based upon Totally. You know, very different message and when that that's the reality of where we're gonna end up. A little bit better Microsoft Teams is just really not the anthropic vision which is being sold to me, okay? I mean I talked to a guy who works at Accenture. I said, how do you use AI?
Speaker 4:He's like, yeah. It's great. It does auto meeting summaries for me. And I was like, wow. Know what
Speaker 2:I'm saying?
Speaker 4:I mean, listen. Definitely great. I mean, it means you don't have to hire some entry level guy, although maybe that's not great. And what really ended up happening is that you end up using it for these extraordinarily mundane tasks. I I have no issue with that as long as the attendant social fallout, government policy, power bills, and all of that is tied up into it.
Speaker 4:Not to mention, I I I really can't belie the social cost because what you said, Jordy, is central thing. There is a mass elite revolution right now against social media. And between I think Jonathan Haidt might be one of the most public, like, important public intellectuals in modern in like, in a long time. Leading what I think is gonna be at least a top middle discussion with all of these different school districts, states, and others, which are banning phones. The recognition is that they are controlling us, and we need to retake control of our life.
Speaker 4:AI is kind of supercharging that message. And if you talk to the vastly rich, which you do, and I've spoken to a few of them, how many of them really let unlimited screen time for their phones in the way that, you know, the income of, let's say, people making less than 100,000 do for their children. It's just completely different. You know, they're very aware of that dynamic, and that is permeating social culture at a way that I don't think people in tech are quite realizing.
Speaker 1:Do you think we it always takes a generation to guinea pigs to understand where technology winds up? I I because I grew up with the the panic around video games and the idea that if you played Counter Strike competitively at a very high level and became one of the greatest Counter Strike players of 02/2003. You were definitely gonna be crazy. Well, I did it. I was great at Counter Strike.
Speaker 1:I wasn't maybe one of the best ever, but I was pretty good. And I don't have any violent impulses whatsoever. I was fine. I was not one shot by, three sixty no scoping people. I became a productive member of society.
Speaker 1:And I feel like we came up with the ESRB, e Yeah. You know, r, like like teen rated games, m rated games. And we kind of figured out, like, where the line is. Parents adapted, kids adapted, and we got through that. Social media feels like we're towards the tail end of getting through it where most parents know, hey.
Speaker 1:The the young kids should not be on Instagram, like, constantly or TikTok constantly. And in it with AI, we're just starting to understand. But it feels like we'll kind of wind up in the same place, which is like
Speaker 4:You might be right. But let me challenge you a little
Speaker 1:bit on
Speaker 4:the video game front. Please. Because I think that video, John, you also know my crusade against sports gambling. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 4:Robin Hood, if you're listening, please don't allow sports betting. Okay. But one of the important things around gambling, you also know my crusade against marijuana is here's the issue with video games with all of these vices and things that you're talking about. It's fine sometimes, but there is an attendant part of society which actually does lose it when immersed in this culture. So, you know, I've pointed, unfortunately, part of my job, I cover a lot of mass shootings.
Speaker 4:We had two or actually three. Very recently, we had Minnesota. We had the also the Charlie Kirk
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Killer, and then we also had the ice shooter. All three were deep in these weird Discord gamers. The ice guy spent twenty hours a day gaming.
Speaker 2:But Discord is a social media thing. Discord, the the platform.
Speaker 1:I don't think it was like a video.
Speaker 2:It's the Discord platform.
Speaker 4:Yeah. But you guys can locate his Steam data. He was logging I don't exactly remember the number off the top of my head, but an absurd number of hours playing video games. This is somebody who's 31 year old male.
Speaker 1:This is kind of a contrarian take. I feel like people close the book on the video games as as causing bounce. You're right.
Speaker 4:I never left. Okay. I love it. Actually, no. I never left.
Speaker 4:I love it. And that's part of that's part of what I think is important to say is that people say it worked out. I I I just dispute that. I mean, we have millions of people now who are addicted to gambling, who are addicted to marijuana, who have gone psychotic, people who are wasting their lives Mhmm. In front of these screens, and it's like, did it work out?
Speaker 4:I mean, yeah, it worked out for the S and P 500. Did it work out for The United States Of America? I would say no. I mean, if you put all those same things together.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was interesting. Ryan Ryan Cohen from GameStop came on the show on Monday. This was crazy. He was he didn't say this explicitly, but he he was basic it's he was seemed generally in favor of just stopping all AI research.
Speaker 1:Oh, wait. I thought you were gonna talk about his take on Call of Duty. He was like, I don't
Speaker 4:want What did he say?
Speaker 1:He was basically like, I don't want people playing Call of Duty. Like, I I don't want kids playing Call of Duty, which is crazy from like the GameStop guy. He's the CEO of the company. But he was he had sort of a similar like anti video game take, like maybe it's not as safe as people think it is.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, if you guys talk to teenagers and you're like, how do you guys hang out? A lot of them will be like, oh, we don't hang out very much, but we play a lot of video games.
Speaker 1:Together.
Speaker 4:Sorry. That's bad. Alright?
Speaker 1:I mean,
Speaker 4:this is just it's weird. It's weird. Wait.
Speaker 1:But what about all the dudes I'm sure you know some of the guys who have been like one shot by golf, where they're just golf is their whole personality. They just are all they do all day is think about golf, and then on the weekend, they go golfing. It's similar. Is it not?
Speaker 4:No. It's not similar because well, okay. When I said video games, what I said is they're at home playing online with their friends.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:Now you and I, you guys we're all relatively the same age. Yeah. Online play was not around that time. So what we would do is you would gather at a friend's house Yes. To pro social.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah yeah
Speaker 2:It was it was it was Couch
Speaker 1:co op.
Speaker 2:It was a thing when I was a kid but I I lived somewhat in the country and so there before anybody could drive, it was like your your parent wasn't necessarily it was it was tough to get around basically. And so video games were a way that you could hang out with your friends, and otherwise, it would've just been hanging by yourself or whatever. Maybe that's maybe that's maybe that's better.
Speaker 4:Maybe. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2:What what would get what would get is is there imagine any scenario that would get you to change your mind on on AI? Because I'm I'm with you right now. It feels like AI is an expand like, the current state of AI in terms of products that people use and and are an everyday part of their life is just an extension of big technology. Right?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:OpenAI has the aesthetics now of a big tech company. They launch products like they're a big tech company. They have a user base like they're a big tech company. They're very young, but that's what they look and feel like. They still have They're non profit and they still have, you know, a research arm that is working on AGI.
Speaker 2:But it's hard for people to spend too much time thinking about AGI research when all the launches and the announcements are social media and new web browsers and erotica and things like that. And so But I'm curious, you know, and this is something we are always trying to tease out on the show is people that come on the show to talk about AI typically have some AI to sell you or some they have a startup equity to sell you that that is that's sort of predicated on on on these sort of more utopian visions of of AI. And it's hard to parcel out. Right? And so you had the the Carpathi interview recently, which was kind of throwing
Speaker 4:Fantastic interview.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I I I That didn't necessarily, like, update my world view a lot. I think you put a lot of these ideas really well. Right? This idea of of, you know, agents are not, you know, are not the the agents that we were promised maybe this year are not here yet.
Speaker 2:And I think that's that's okay. But I'm curious what would what would update your world view? Because it's hard it's like if we get massive If we
Speaker 1:get like an Ozempic level drug success that was designed from AI, that probably makes it all worth it.
Speaker 4:Right? I think what John is correct is just show me. Like, actually show it to me. Stop telling me because it's creeping me out to watch talk about UBI and, you know, oh, where everyone's gonna be, you know, extremely happy even though I run the entire world. I mean, listen.
Speaker 4:This I gotta put my own cynicism and bias on the table. Like, I'm literally an anti establishmentarian podcaster. When these guys open their mouths, I'm just like, you're lying. And, most of the time, that turns out to be true.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's one of those square Yeah. I I I would I would take the other side of this argument and and say that it is possible that we never get some sort of big binary moment where we're like, oh my god. Yes. Like, it did the thing that we wanted to do, but it's still, like, net good.
Speaker 1:I think about it like, you know, the invention of the credit card. It's like it just, like, speeds up the economy every little it takes a little bit of friction out so that the the corner store can sell a couple more muffins, and then the person can pay with the digital, you know, the digital cash that they stored in their bank account, and they don't need to do the check writing, and it sort of puts a couple check writers out of business. But people have
Speaker 2:new jobs because digital currency the will track your your c o two consumption.
Speaker 4:No. No. No. No.
Speaker 1:But there are yeah. There but there are tons of there there there are tons of
Speaker 8:Do think it's
Speaker 2:not to on the tinfoil hat, but do you do you think it's do you think it's funny how for basically decades people were so against central bank digital currencies? And now they're like, let me now now now everybody's like, I present to you stable stable coins.
Speaker 1:They're little bit different, but
Speaker 2:Sure. They're different, but but the potential risks associated with digital digital money, are still are still there.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I I I wanna pick up on what John said. Sure. I think it's such an important point, which is I think you are exactly correct. But this is why I react so negatively to the rhetoric.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And, you know, guys, I mean, sure you have as well. One of my favorite books, DotCon, you know, by Cassidy. I could go through the list. Michael Lewis has a book on DotCon. I I've read through I even I I watched a few documentaries.
Speaker 4:CNN, and you'll never hear me say this, actually has some decent documentaries about the decades, And they have a decent documentary about the nineteen nineties. Yes. Shout out to the old CNN. Shout out to the old CNN. They had a great documentary about the nineties, which I watched, and the same level of enthusiasm they were talking about the information superhighway is quite literally matches much of the rhetoric of today.
Speaker 4:I'm too young to actually have experience much of it on the airways, but the same way and the fervor, which was fueling so much of .com just seems I mean, same thing. Like, ironically, use ChatGPT just before I came on here because I knew we were gonna talk about this. And I That's what I
Speaker 2:was saying though. It's it's it's one of those things like people like social media, they hate it, but they use it.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Well, I I
Speaker 1:don't hate chat Oh, boys. I just
Speaker 2:don't Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Oh, my finding was that we are mirroring almost exactly the same levels of tech stock growth from the year 1999 of the entire S and P 500 of stock gains and similar ones in terms of our GDP. If anything, the GDP number is higher today. So the systemic risk, which matches the rhetoric, and that the risk itself of the fact is, you know, John, what I've probably been texting you the most about is these round tripping vendor finance deals. And you you made a great point to me privately about ASML and how vendor finance itself is not necessarily a negative term in and of itself.
Speaker 4:But it's really hard not to go and read the story of Cisco and to say, hey, you know, if we have very similar type of downturn and reduction of expected revenue, I'm not saying OpenAI itself will go bankrupt, but that itself is fueling the entire retirement portfolio of the whole country. Not to mention GDP, interest rates, everything is banking on this one sector. I think that's really dangerous. And especially that background article, you guys are gonna know a lot more Yeah. Than me, but Sam's story about, you know, going back to Masayoshi san, which Yeah.
Speaker 4:Look, no offense to the viewers. You know, I read the WeWork book. I I'm just saying.
Speaker 8:I'm not
Speaker 1:saying I trust the
Speaker 2:guy Credit credit on Masa WeWork, Masa never really got a markup. Right? Or maybe he got one or two, but not not not a lot on the real dollar.
Speaker 1:No. He knew he was buying the top.
Speaker 2:Top ticked it.
Speaker 1:The top blasted.
Speaker 2:The dialogue earlier this year was Masa was is Masa top blasting OpenAI? And then of course, you know, OpenAI is up, you know, another Five point and
Speaker 1:a half thing.
Speaker 4:Listen, I mean, his deal worked out, but it was more just the to the extent of it's very similar kind of Adam Neumann esque to me about like, oh Sam, you need to go bigger. And that's exactly what encourages him to start doing so many of these deals. I don't begrudge them necessarily to do it, but you know, I really took to heart the too big to fail element of this. Because I'm thinking about this from a math society.
Speaker 2:Just say you're not an investor in SoftBank Group Corp. Up a 100 I'm a 100 up a 173% year to date.
Speaker 1:We we we so we so we have Jordan Schneider from China talk joining in just a minute. But the last question I want is the update on, you know, the the obviously, you know, you believe there's an AI bubble. Is there a media bubble? Is David Allison trying to build one? Like, what's going on in the media landscape?
Speaker 1:We were trying to map it out earlier, taking you through new media, neomedia, traditional media, the legacy media, the mainstream media. There's so many different phrases. Like, Like, what's the most interesting story in media in 2025? Because we've already had the story about, like, we're leaving the mainstream and going independent.
Speaker 4:Here's my countertake, which I really came home with the gambling story recently at NBA. Yep. There is a new media bubble, and it's in sports. And it's entirely because FanDuel and DraftKings have propped up way too many people with opinions. And when there is even a modest pushback
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:On prop bets and the rest of the bullshit that these sports books are allowed to send you. PM pardon my take, and maybe two or three others are gonna make it. Everybody else is gonna get wiped out. There are way too many sports sports podcasts Yep. If you're out there.
Speaker 4:And in my opinion, the biggest bubble is in sports media right now, entirely inflated by the gambling industry. Yeah. What Do you have
Speaker 2:any do have any sense what this is a great advertising revenues in in sports?
Speaker 1:Well, I is is gambling.
Speaker 4:But but but it it has to be like 78%. To 90%.
Speaker 1:I would say
Speaker 4:80 to 90%.
Speaker 1:I think the Pat McAfee deal was maybe 50% paid for by, sports betting.
Speaker 2:Well, have a start up to pitch you. There's a new start up that launched that allows you to bet on your bills. OnlyFans child support and last night Ubers wiped them from your
Speaker 1:credit this.
Speaker 2:By playing your favorite
Speaker 1:casino to games enrage soccer all
Speaker 2:of from the their app. Are you So if you have a big OnlyFans I'll
Speaker 1:show it. You can gamble it away. You can gamble it away. Like You
Speaker 2:know, I'm not double or nothing.
Speaker 1:Me. Yes.
Speaker 4:The investor in me wants to Stop. The investor in me wants to buy that company.
Speaker 2:You need
Speaker 1:a vice clause on your own investments.
Speaker 4:Yeah. You're right. I mean, I've I've said, as much as I preach against this stuff, if I actually had to open a business, it would be called game day loans, like, instead of payday loans, and it would float sports bettors who are out there
Speaker 1:who need, like, an 18
Speaker 4:to 25% interest. So that's a free idea out there. Game day loans. I'm telling you, it'd be
Speaker 1:a It's billion dollar gonna happen. Oh, it's happening.
Speaker 4:It's gonna happen. If you want to sell it to FanDuel, you're ready.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What what's your last thing? What's your kind of, like, timeline on on this sort of tension bubbling up around data centers and slop and and the the build out overall?
Speaker 1:I I have a very clear idea of how of how, like, how
Speaker 8:bubbles build up in private markets. It can
Speaker 2:get more it can get a lot more intense from here.
Speaker 4:It'll go national in 2026. The Democrats are gonna win a decent amount of elections. Okay. Anti tech is already a small d democratic issue. They are gonna start hearing a ton of it at town halls.
Speaker 4:It's already happening and, twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven is when it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:And on the right, you're tracking like Marjorie Taylor Greene or Josh Hawley. Like, who's who's gonna be leading the front there on the right?
Speaker 4:It'll probably be Tucker Carlson Tucker at the top. Okay. And from that point, it will flow to the Marjorie Taylor Greens, the Josh Hollies. I'd be very curious to see where where JD lands on this. Actually, David David, I mean, is a central figure in now.
Speaker 4:Yes. David
Speaker 2:Saks's point Saks's I think, from earlier this week was that without AI, you have basically zero GDP growth. So I think
Speaker 4:he's taking That's the problem. Yeah. So and and listen. That's not his fault. He's the AI adviser.
Speaker 4:He should be making that point. But if I wanna lead our country, that's not the sell I'm making because what we have learned over the last
Speaker 2:twenty five the years economy so you can lose your job.
Speaker 4:Yeah. There you go. That is the is the end all of this entire conversation.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:This is this is the this is the final boss of the of the anti tech wave. It really is the is the potentially potentially the final battle. Yeah. It's gonna be it's gonna be it's gonna be crazy and I'm I'm excited to have many more conversations.
Speaker 1:The Singularity Weekly. Yeah. Yeah. We'd love to have you back. This is so much fun.
Speaker 4:Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Always welcome. And congratulations on on all your success obviously.
Speaker 4:Well, I've been doing actually for seven years. Nobody gave me a Sunday New York Times profile.
Speaker 2:Okay. So No. I think I think it's what's going on here.
Speaker 5:We know
Speaker 2:we know a guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta make it happen. Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2:Cheers, Sagar. You too.
Speaker 1:See you. Before we bring in Jordan Schneider from China talk, let me tell you about Linear. Linear is a purpose built tool for planning and building projects and products. Meet the meet the system for modern software development, streamline issues, projects, and product road maps. Let's bring in Jordan Schneider from China Talk.
Speaker 1:Jordan, how are you doing?
Speaker 5:I'm doing alright. You should have kept me on with that last guest. That was great.
Speaker 1:I know. Yeah. We we we started doing a little bit of that earlier this week. We had, like, Brian Armstrong and Brian Chesky kind of next to each other for
Speaker 9:a Call little
Speaker 5:him back in because the answer is we will all be so distracted by our AI boyfriends and girlfriends that we won't be stressed out about losing our jobs.
Speaker 2:I I think I I actually Maybe that's the move. It's dark, but I think that the world is so entertained now that almost nothing matters.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And it's sad. But no matter how dark certain futures could be, the it's it's it's expected that everyone will have infinite entertainment constantly. And it it's so much harder for people to stand up and protest and try to create change if, you know, you can go back to your phone and and, oh, here's another funny video. Yeah. I just saw Stephen Hawking's at the X Games and it was awesome.
Speaker 2:And I'm gonna send it to a friend and
Speaker 1:It it actually is awesome though. It is safe. It's really safe. It's totally worth paying a lot for that.
Speaker 2:Totally worth the extra $2,000.
Speaker 1:Duality of TBPN. I haven't even seen my ten second back in four. Just wait. Once I see my dog at the x games
Speaker 2:No. I think I think it's important. I I I think like you can't you know, I I've I continue to be a firm believer that the technology is a massive net positive for the world, but it it has a dark side and it's important to talk about it and it's will be important to continue to talk about it and
Speaker 5:It's numbing. There's like a taking antidepressants lens to it, right, where you just kind of feel less if you get these dopamine hits. And we have not evolved to have the dopamine hits with, you know, within literally five seconds. Anytime you feel bad about yourself or bad about the world or something that happened around you or, you know, someone disappointed you in your life, it's like, oh, okay. Like, instead of, like, addressing that or, you know, going to protest to Jordi's point, you know, we can be consoled by these things that live in our pockets and they're only going to get better at it, which is the sort of, I guess, awesome.
Speaker 2:Dude, this is the worst this is the worst the the dopamine feedback loop will ever be. This
Speaker 1:is the worst the infinite jest will ever be. Do you think China is less dopamine addled? Like, probably brain rotted? Because Yeah. You hear these Feels a little bit.
Speaker 1:It it like no no to no brain rot TikToks.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Their TikTok is just science video. It's
Speaker 5:just Absolutely not. Yeah. Right? Absolutely not. I mean, look.
Speaker 5:Like, who needs who needs opiates for the masses more? Like, a country with 20% youth unemployment?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Or a country that has, like, what, 3.5% unemployment? Think the the party has successfully kind of like Which country
Speaker 1:has 20% unemployment? China. Who's unemployment? Yeah. Which country are you talking about?
Speaker 5:Well, yeah. Give us get let let let AI run for an extra year or two, I guess. But over
Speaker 2:the Those are rookie numbers.
Speaker 1:Like, if you told me that was America, I'm not that far off. I I mean, I've heard that the numbers are going up. They might have spiked.
Speaker 5:Obviously I think I think there is I think this sort you know, it's fun. You guys should have Jasmine and Son and I asked her We have to. Like, because she just came back from a trip to China. I was like, who walks around looking down at their phone more? People in the Bay or China?
Speaker 5:And she couldn't really distinguish between the two.
Speaker 1:It was identical?
Speaker 5:I don't just like like just like equally sort of like Yeah. Zoned in while like walking down the street, you are like simultaneously swiping.
Speaker 2:Ben Ben Sand in our chat says, IOS Liquid Glass is the best line of defense against phone addiction. I totally agree. This is like the worst software Apple's released in so long and it it just makes using your phone worse. So I I'm sure I hope I hope my screen time is going down.
Speaker 5:Don't worry. Johnny Ive will come in to save the day, Jordy. We won't be safe. That's not that that won't save us for long.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. Wait. Zoom out. The original reason we wanted to chat was because of the it's always fun to have you on the show.
Speaker 1:But, obviously, about the rare earth. Like, just give us the the high level update on, like, the trade war. This has been, what, since the entire time, since your very first appearance
Speaker 2:Is it real?
Speaker 1:Since a year. Is it real? Is it even worth, like, thinking about, like, what the high level summary is of the of the status of the debate?
Speaker 5:Sure. I mean, I think, like like, look, we've seen this administration
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:Swing from side to side on lots of different things. You know, we were yelling at Zelensky in the Oval Office, and now we're finally doing the sanctions that Biden couldn't bring himself to do around oil. Mhmm. You know, we had Trump trying to you know, doing Liberation Day, taking it off, you know, giving them h twenties. They don't want them.
Speaker 5:Now we're trying now now they sort of tried to tighten the the the grip with the 50% rule from from BIS. So sort of Huawei's subsidiaries can't buy equipment, and China came back with rare earths. I think the sort of the the fundamental fact is that, like, both countries have the, you know, the the sort of both countries have the ability to do significant economic harm to each other, and it's a bit of you know, there's an aspect of playing chicken Yeah. And there's a and there's this kind of question of escalation dominance, like which side can take more pain and which side really cares more.
Speaker 1:Yep. And both both of them have have basically a ranked list of of tools in the tool chest, chips on the poker table, and something like we're not gonna sell you rare earth is extremely painful to America, maybe not that painful to China. And then we're gonna text Happy Meal toys or whatever is is maybe, you know, something in the American tool chest or and the NVIDIA thing. And is the process that we should think about the lens of this year more thinking about just every both sides are trying to actually understand the shape of how painful each tool in the tool chest is because it feels like we're we're very much, like, turning these things on, turning them off to understand, okay. If rare earths are plus 60 points.
Speaker 1:NVIDIA chips, we thought it was plus 20 points for The US. It's actually plus five. It feels like we're just trying to, like, map all these out, and then we will go to the meeting and actually say, okay. What's equal? Is that what's happening?
Speaker 5:Yeah. Well, the the the problem is I think the the Xi has had a long standing goal, which he's real which he's repeated in speeches numerous times, that he wants to make China more self reliant. He and he wants to make the rest of the world reliant, you know, more reliant on China.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:And the problem with what you're seeing out of the Trump administration's policy towards this is what they're optimizing for changes literally week to week. So, you know, tariffs are for revenue. Tariffs are for you know, this trade war is to bring manufacturing back. This trade war is to actually help NVIDIA gain market share in China. This the trade war is to crush the Chinese semiconductor companies.
Speaker 5:And the the problem is it's like it would be easier to sort of get to some sort of equilibrium where each side is just gonna run as fast as they can at their things. Like, if this administration had a, sort of grand vision that it was working towards consistently for. But, I think the, the dance that we've seen now play out over they've met each other, like, 15 times is it seems like the negotiators, every time they go, are actually operating under kind of, like, different, a different incentive structure. So and I think this just plays to China's benefit because the fact of the matter is America has an enormous amount of power and leverage that it could bring to bear. But the first time that China bit back in the case of rare earths, that kind of really freaked out the Trump administration, and it showed and sort of the
Speaker 2:So so What will be interesting sorry. Yeah. Please. Yeah. To make to make this more tangible, like, how how is this netting out for China's AI industry?
Speaker 2:The the messaging has been, obviously, you know, we're not you're not gonna buy NVIDIA chips. Maybe we'll look the other way on on Malaysia and Singapore data centers. We're gonna invest as much as possible in catching up to the leading edge in our own, you know, domestic semi industry. We're gonna dominate in power. And in five to ten years, like, we're gonna be, you know, relatively, you know, ho ho you know, in their view, hopefully, you know, relatively equal in terms of, like, overall computing power.
Speaker 2:And then I wanna get a sense of, like, on the rare earth side, how solvable that is for The US in your view.
Speaker 5:Well, Chris Miller on China Talk had a good line. Like, we're just we're about to see what's easier to do. Build an EUV machine or build a rare earth mining, you know Yep. Rare earth mines and and refining facilities. So from the Chinese AI perspective, I do think that their decision to sort of say, we don't even want your h twenties is fascinating.
Speaker 5:On the one hand, it may just be a ploy to get Blackwell to be like, oh, okay. Like, we don't want this. We'll sell you even harder drugs to use Lutnik's, like, addiction phrase. But there also may be some sort of information mismatch because there obviously are lots and lots of sort of Chinese AI labs and hyperscalers who would love to buy NVIDIA chips. But Huawei may have gotten into the ear of the state council saying, yo, like, we got this.
Speaker 5:Don't worry. Like, you know, we'll
Speaker 2:But isn't there also a haven't haven't, you know, hasn't, like, Singapore and Malaysia, like, spiked quite a bit? Like, can that can that demand not just flow there?
Speaker 5:Yeah. So it turns into a bit of a bridge. And this is something that the administration seems to be well, look, if you're if you're fine selling the chips into into China, yeah, why not just sell them into into Malaysia and Singapore? I mean, I, for one, am more comfortable with that as a kind of intermediate step. But the problem with that is, like, what you're doing is providing this bridge for all these competitors of The US AI stack to kind of, like, keep developing and stay on the frontier such that when Huawei really is able to scale you know, potentially is able to scale to a level to compete with NVIDIA, you have these firms still running.
Speaker 5:And the question I really wanna know is, like, look, if we're if we want to sell the AI stack to the world, why don't we just make why aren't we selling, like, all of it? Like, why is it cool that we're just doing the NVIDIA stack and then, like, we're having we're we're allowing NVIDIA to do partnerships with, like, Alibaba Cloud abroad and like sell that into into Malaysia. I mean, would not be that hard to say, okay, like you want NVIDIA chips, you should also be working with American hyperscalers and you should be buying from AI and buying Western models. That seems to me to be like a like a like, there aren't too many, like, alternatives on the table. The US does have the the the leverage there and I think it's a shame that that's not the line we're pushing.
Speaker 5:We're we're instead just sort of like ending the monopoly of the AI stack at the chip layer and letting the the the clouds and models just, you know, go whichever way
Speaker 2:they want.
Speaker 1:America needs a deep seek for energy, an American deep seek for energy. Right? So what that would mean is, what did deep sea do? Like, they got they jumped to our
Speaker 2:front here. Jordan Schneider is the Really cheap state.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Really cheap. What? Really fast. And they but they stole, like, our fundamental thing.
Speaker 1:They're like, we need to steal how fast they can build energy over there and make it an American company. So however they build
Speaker 5:Or just, like, invent nuclear fusion. Yes, John.
Speaker 2:I have no idea. Idea.
Speaker 1:I have They're doing right. Aren't they aren't they in they're growing way more energy. So what is the company that's doing that over there? What's the organization over there? What do they have that's special?
Speaker 1:Let's let's copy that. Is that possible?
Speaker 5:I mean, the the answer is like, it would like the reason I went to nuclear fusion is like, it would be really nice to have a shortcut Yeah. Because the answer is like really boring and frustrating.
Speaker 2:But don't you think America will just get lucky like we always do, discover some novel method of energy? But we always anytime we need a resource, we just find some of it. I feel like we'll have Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, this is the this is the whole
Speaker 5:Tyler Cowen thing. Like, do not underestimate the elasticity of supply. It's not just finding it. Right? It's like all of these, you know, global capitalism is now scared of their dependence on Chinese rare earths.
Speaker 5:Sure. And they kind of got a taste of that in April. You know, they should have learned their lesson in 2014 when China did this to Japan. But now it's really real. And now, you know, all all your VC friends that come on the show are are gonna understand that this is a very this is a much more investable, you know, finding like the solution to ytterbium and like True.
Speaker 5:You know, manufacturing like lab grown diamonds. Like, people are going to be willing to pay a premium for that stuff in a way that they maybe weren't even
Speaker 1:lab grown diamonds important? There is actually a Cyan Bannister company, Long Journey, is in, something called Diamond Age.
Speaker 5:Amazing. I mean, but it's
Speaker 1:But is that important in the rare earth con Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah. It's an input to I think machines? This is actually one of the ones that the world is doing okay on. China has like 70% of the market. Okay.
Speaker 5:But, it's it's part of the sort of the, you know, it's it's used in fabs as part of the sort of manufacturing process.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. How are you tracking, the the backlash to, data center build out? We were just talking to Sagar and Jetty about this. Like, he thinks that, like, there's gonna be a serious backlash.
Speaker 1:What's the deep state saying, Jordan?
Speaker 5:So here's the answer. You you saw these you may have seen these articles come out with the secretary of the army talking to PE firms about how they're gonna lease out land. It's like, alright,
Speaker 1:well, like Is that dangerous? Build stuff on yeah. Let's just build this stuff on He's military been on Exactly.
Speaker 5:No one's gonna complain if it's just like in the middle of nowhere. Yeah.
Speaker 8:You can so.
Speaker 5:And, you know, you can pollute all you want on on those. There are all these sort of regulatory exemptions for these places. I think the money's gonna find a way. The problem with this is, like, sure, you know, the the the NIMBY stuff is useful when it's like you're going when it's like one neighborhood, right, or two neighborhoods. But, like, you can put this stuff almost anywhere and it is like 97% as useful as if you get to build it in in Virginia.
Speaker 5:Right? Yep. So I'm not I'm not all that pessimistic. I think, okay, maybe a few a few, a few localities will be, like, loud enough to kick it out. But America's pretty big.
Speaker 5:There's a lot of places.
Speaker 2:I like that. What what do you think is gonna happen on the humanoid front? We saw this really insane demo of a UniTree robot that was transitioning from walking to, like, crawling like an insect. And now UniTree is selling in Walmart. And it just feels like we're gonna repeat the DJI thing where we let one of every American have a humanoid in their home that you know, a Chinese humanoid in their home.
Speaker 2:And I'm I'm sort of surprised that we're running this back.
Speaker 5:It's interesting. I mean, there's there aren't real competitors at scale for the consumer market in The US yet. I mean, there are very straightforward regulatory things that the Trump administration could do to ban them. There's also a handful of kind of dependencies that the Chinese robotics ecosystem still has on the still has connected to The US. So, you know, a lot of those chips come from TSMC.
Speaker 5:Like, there's a there's a sort of like Nvidia software layer. Maybe this is something that the Trump administration is thinking about when they're saying, oh, we're gonna like ban critical software. So there are things that The US can do to kind of slow down the system if they really want to.
Speaker 2:Humanoids are not, you know, even in unitary's robots current form, it's not like they're delivering incredible value to Americans and by banning them, you're like, you know, reducing, you know, the productivity of businesses or anything like that. And so it feels like maybe in two years, they're actually providing some value across the economy. It'll be much harder to go out and say we're gonna ban the cheap ones and you have to buy American. And it just feels, you know, I don't know. Sure.
Speaker 5:Well, what's really interesting is, like, in Ukraine, UGVs are a real thing now. So, you know, a lot of the, like, sort of resupplying infantry that's on the front line is an incredibly dangerous thing and now they just have these little track robots that go back and forth. You've even seen videos of like CASIVAX, so people who are injured that they can't, you know, carry out in any other way being sort of like rolling themselves onto some like bed and and having a drone drive them out. So I'm I'm with you, Jordy. This stuff like, they're kinda cute and fun for now, but we'll get like, we'll get there pretty soon.
Speaker 5:It's not going it's it's not impossible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They're they're cute. They're cute, But at the same time, when it when the humanoid starts crawling across your floor and you realize and and your your your human alarm you you You'd oddly see biological alarm bell going off that says like, this thing, like, looks like it like, from all the sci fi movies I've seen, this thing looks like it wants to kill me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It it feels way more tractable to me, like self driving cars, like, you know you know, OCR ing text in an image. It feels like something that we can just, chop chip away at versus, like, novel scientist scientific discovery thing. That feels like very uniquely human, very complex, like Yeah. Much further out.
Speaker 1:This is just, like, make the motors work the right way. It it feels very simple. Like, we're not trying to make someone superhuman at moving. Like, it's just do the thing that any human can do, and we have tons of training data for us.
Speaker 2:How are what what's happening in in Chinese markets right now?
Speaker 5:I don't know, man. I'm just the tech guy. Yeah. I'm gonna pass on that. Let me let me go back to
Speaker 2:the You should
Speaker 5:you should
Speaker 2:spin up a spin up a small venture fund on the side, then you'd be able to answer that question.
Speaker 5:Well, now well, the thing the thing that I am spinning up that I'm look that I want your blessing from actually is so I've started a new series about war. I think it is actually just Sports Center for War. We've been doing it once a week. The current name is Second Breakfast, but I think WBPN would probably be a better thing.
Speaker 1:I don't
Speaker 5:know what the licensing arrangement is here. Maybe this is a conversation for offline. I
Speaker 1:love the Second Breakfast concept. I love the I love the topic selection. I would not recommend SportsCenter for War because the because, like, there are just gonna be episodes that are sensitive, and it's hard to bring humor and levity to something that's really dark.
Speaker 2:And so Sport SportsCenter is about providing an entertainment layer Yeah. Over existing entertainment. And, like, I'm sure it's been a little dark this week with all of the the the gambling, ring action. But
Speaker 1:But in general, both of those time
Speaker 2:You must have been your face across the New York Times being like Jordan Schneider's.
Speaker 5:Jordan Schneider, the sports center for war guy.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It it it is tricky. I mean, people have people have pitched us like, oh, are you gonna do a trading card for the hostages being released or something in in geopolitics and stuff? And it's like, it just feels like that's not our space. And when you recontextualize it, even if it's a positive story, it still feels like, oh, there's, like, there's real lives at stake versus, like, you know, just money at stake, which is what we talk about, or just or just point some on the in the imaginary sports world.
Speaker 1:It it like, in the literal sports world, like, it's it is just a game. Yes. It's extremely high stakes for at the Super Bowl, but it is just a game. And so, you can have a lot of fun with that. And you can also have fun with just some VCs who are writing checks, but the war thing is a little bit it requires a little bit more sensitivity, I think.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because, like, this community is just chock full of dark humor. Sure. So, you know, I've told this
Speaker 2:to a
Speaker 5:few people and they just like think it's the funniest thing in the world. Yeah. Even like going back in the with
Speaker 1:like element of of talking about the the the hit war history. That makes so much sense. Like, for sure. I don't know.
Speaker 5:But alright. Point point point Where
Speaker 1:can people check it out? I know it's in the China Talk RSS feed. Do you have to hit hit substack? How are people getting into the ecosystem?
Speaker 5:Yeah. It's just it's just on the China Talk podcast feed for now. Maybe I'll
Speaker 1:Go check it out.
Speaker 5:Metastasizing. But, yes, second breakfast if you need more Venezuela content in your life.
Speaker 2:What is I've out of the loop on what what what do you think happens with Venezuela over the next month while we're while we're here? You can give a little taster of your of your of your new show.
Speaker 5:Well, there's two there's two paths where oh, well, I guess there's three paths they're on. One, he's just bluffing, and we're gonna move on to something else in a month. But, like, having this many boats in The Caribbean, sending a carrier makes me feel like it's a little more than that. So then there's path number two where America fights like a covert war with a cartel. And then there's pass number three where we sort of, like, kill, exfiltrate, end up intimidating out of the country, sort of Maduro and his, like, leadership team.
Speaker 5:And I don't think this administration is necessarily gonna be the if you break it, you buy it mindset. So, you know, then I guess the cartel takes over the country. I don't know. It is not clear to me that this has been entirely thought out. It just seems a lot like a Sicario cosplay at like a giant horrific on a giant and like really horrific scale.
Speaker 5:Maybe there's a better idea out there behind all of this. But the the sort of head of Southcom for whom this operation would have been like the crowning achievement decided like, said he was gonna retire one year into his three year tour of duty, which has basically, like, never happened in the past forty years or so. So I don't know. It's gonna be really messy. Mhmm.
Speaker 5:The US actually does have, a kinda nice case study in what in Colombia and what we were able to do to sort of like get the you know, bring the like, talk and fight the fart out of existence over the course of the 2010. So that's the happy story that might manifest. But the thing there is, like, you were working with the central government. There were only 50 Americans on the ground doing the thing. And, like, now we're trying to get rid of a cartel that apparently the president is saying is, like, one in the same with the government itself.
Speaker 5:So I don't know. Big mess, very far from, like, pivoting to China, but we'll we'll we'll get there eventually. You know? It's just, it's only a matter of time.
Speaker 2:I know. I think you gotta maybe start with updating China talk. Maybe it's just maybe it's just Globe talk.
Speaker 1:World talk.
Speaker 2:World just world talk. World talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Globe. World talk. Globe Brady.
Speaker 1:No. I think just Jordan Schneider. I don't know. I mean, all these all these
Speaker 2:Somebody in the chat said Saturday night live for human rights violations. So that's what you wanna that's what you wanna avoid with your whole SportsCenter for war thing. Because, like, you're gonna
Speaker 1:Rough. Although, maybe if you just own it. Mean, like, you listen to Tim Dillon, he's, like, extremely candid. Anyway, we we do have a guest waiting. So thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Always good. Always good time.
Speaker 1:Let's do it again soon. We'll talk to you later, have a great weekend.
Speaker 2:Good to see you.
Speaker 5:See you guys.
Speaker 1:Cheers. Before we bring in Chase from Crusoe, let me tell you about newmarlehq.com. Sales tax on autopilot spend less than five minutes per month on sales tax compliance. We have Chase Lochmiller from Crusoe in the restroom waiting room. Now he's in the TUVN Ultradome.
Speaker 2:Welcome the show.
Speaker 1:You're looking fantastic. How are you, Chase? Congratulations are in order. Give us the breakdown. What's the news today?
Speaker 10:You know, today, we are announcing the closing of our series e round of funding, valuing the company at 10,400,000,000.0. Gong?
Speaker 2:Gong. Another one. Another one. Another one. 10,400,000.0.
Speaker 2:Two Gong hits.
Speaker 1:10? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Fantastic.
Speaker 1:How are you describing where the company what what you do? It's such a fascinating
Speaker 2:what exactly do you do?
Speaker 1:Because yeah. I mean, you've been doing somewhat of the same thing for a very long time, and yet there's been multiple eras in terms of what the end end customer has done. There's been where you sit in the stack, the type of size of project, scale of projects. So how are you describing the wheelhouse that or the the the the yeah. Where Crusoe fits?
Speaker 10:Yeah. I I think, putting it simply, you know, Crusoe is, an AI factory company. So what that means, we're building, you know, these factories that produce intelligence. And this is both a hardware problem and a software problem. And we focus on all of the things ranging from cultivating the energy and helping develop the energy resources needed to power AI infrastructure.
Speaker 10:We're building out the data centers themselves and redesigning them to fit these large scale accelerated computing clusters. And then we and then we also built out this whole software platform that operates these large scale AI factories so that they can actually be effective in producing intelligence, and really enable our generation's, greatest minds and entrepreneurs to do their life's work and help build, and scale their AI applications to impact people around
Speaker 11:the world.
Speaker 1:Is there a superlative that you're chasing in the neo cloud market? Do you wanna be the firm that can build bigger than anyone or else or faster than anyone else or more reliable? I mean, obviously, you wanna win on everything, but is there something that you're chasing that you think is, like, the true differentiator?
Speaker 10:Yeah. I I I think I I think right now, speed is the biggest focus for the business in terms of, being able to move very, very quickly. It's a very dynamic market. But certainly, you know, reliability, scale, cost Yeah. All these things really come into into play.
Speaker 10:And and and ultimately, we wanna deliver for our customers what they need, what what adds value to them. So, you know, being able to deliver, you know, to our cloud customers, the best price performance, trade off for their infrastructure solutions, alongside a reliable, you know, well managed platform, I think, is ultimately our goal. But, you you know, I think being able to do that very, very quickly right now is a is a major, major advantage, and it's something that's very difficult to replicate when you look at, you know, kind of what we did in Abilene, Texas in terms of, you know, starting from from nothing into a large scale AI factory that's, you know, managing or that that's operating, you know, tens of thousands of GPUs at this point is is is is a very important aspect to, you know, bringing this infrastructure to life.
Speaker 1:So Abilene's is up and running?
Speaker 10:Yes. We announced recently the first phases of the 1.2 Gigawatt campus are are up operational today. Operational.
Speaker 1:That's incredible because I feel like there there was, like, this whole press cycle about, like, you know, it's off track, and it's like, this thing was announced, like, months ago. You know, I I expect these things to take years. I I don't know. I was I was I I feel like people aren't taking enough of a victory lap there.
Speaker 10:Yeah. No. And think there's been, you know, Stargate's been this, like, very overloaded term in terms of Yeah. You know, including this. It it's a company.
Speaker 10:It's a, you know, it's a site. It's a concept. It's a you know, it's like, what what is Stargate? You know, I'm still not entirely sure. But, you you know, there's I I think we we got wrapped up a little bit in the, you know, rumors swirling that this thing's behind or, you know, that, the company is behind, but, you know, the the project has has, done extremely well.
Speaker 1:The most expensive the most the the most ambitious vision and the shortest possible timeline, and that became what you were measured against, basically. Yeah. And so it was like, unless unless a trillion dollars is in the ground working in six months, like, you're it's over. It's like, wait. We never said that.
Speaker 1:We
Speaker 2:said Well, it's rightfully had a lot of pressure because the project got announced via the president. That's not very standard for for, you know Yeah. A launch.
Speaker 1:That's a good tip for startups. If you if you want a, you know, spokesperson, president would be great.
Speaker 2:Tyler Cowen has a quote that's been going around quite a bit recently, which is like, don't underestimate the elasticity of supply in the in the context of and it's been going around in the context of energy. Feels like Crusoe was started on this idea of like, there actually is a lot of energy out there and there's real demand for it. You just gotta go out and find it. How much is that how much is that ringing true and as you kind of evaluate, you know, new sites and opportunities for your business?
Speaker 10:No. That's absolutely the case. And I think that's one of the things that set us apart and enabled us to move quickly and build at scale is having this energy first approach to developing the infrastructure. Yeah. Part of our announcement today was announcing our energy pipeline, which, you know, is in excess of 45 gigawatts at this point.
Speaker 10:And, you know, putting into context, you know, the Abilene campus is 1.2 gigawatts. So, you know, it's it's it's, you know, orders of magnitude larger or an order and a half of magnitude and larger in terms of overall capacity there. I'm in New York City today. You know, it's something, you know, on the order of, you know, eight New York City's worth of power. So it's a it's a very substantial amount of power that's gonna be required fundamentally for AI to scale and and and to really, really reach, the the ambitions and hopes of the industry.
Speaker 1:Last question. We'll let you go. Last time you were on, we kind of walked through a little bit of a debunk of the we're gonna run out of water for data centers. What's your current thinking on the story that's emerging around, like, data centers are gonna drive up my energy prices? Is that solvable on the short term?
Speaker 1:Is this gonna be some short term pain for long term gain? Is it something that, you know, you need you need to rethink regulation or or just speed up building of new energy? How are you thinking about that question? Because it seems like it's gonna get bigger and bigger.
Speaker 10:Yeah. So I actually found it fascinating. There was a report that came out recently that showed, actually, in markets with substantial data center investment, the overall cost to ratepayers actually came down, you know, compared to other markets where, you know, there was less digital infrastructure being built where where prices actually went up substantially. And, you know, I really see this trend playing out as a whole because what what ends up happening is, you know, the digital infrastructure players, the the folks building the data centers, at this point, you know, a lot of the energy market is saturated. And there isn't just, you know, a bunch of free power laying around, you know, underutilized, not doing much.
Speaker 10:You know, there there's some of that, but, you know, it's becoming more and more scarce, which means that in order to realize all of these ambitions that are taking place in AI, we actually have to build out a lot of net new power. We need to build new power plants. We need to build new creative energy solutions to to effectively energize this infrastructure. And when data centers are doing that, they're having to build out power capacity, that meets their overall peak demands of the facility. And, as a result, it ends up, you know, with some incremental power that is being underutilized and can become an asset to other participants in those, energy markets and really actually bring down their overall cost of power, because there's more abundant power.
Speaker 10:And that really goes in line with, you know, the Crusoe mission, which is accelerating the abundance of energy and intelligence. We really view those two things as the key pillars of progress in this, chapter for humanity.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love it. I I I think it's definitely, I mean, there's a bunch of different political frameworks where you could use to to understand where this is going, but, it feels very solvable.
Speaker 2:One one, one last question that probably would would take ten minutes to properly answer, but how how much are you banking on nuclear on a shorter time horizon, if at all, talking, you know, five five year timeline?
Speaker 10:Yeah. So we're really excited with a lot of the advancements, happening in the nuclear space. You know, we have a number of partnerships across the SMR ecosystem, including a plan to energize the first SMR powered AI factory in 2027. Mhmm. So, you know, that's gonna be sort of a smaller scale deployment, but we think will be a great template for us to hopefully scale and and bring new nuclear powered AI infrastructure to life.
Speaker 10:It's also you know, this has been a huge priority for Chris Wright in terms of, you know, helping create a regulatory framework for nuclear and sort of reevaluating the nuclear the NRC, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, in terms of, you know, how do we actually enable, the private sector to build the energy necessary to power, demands of society, data centers, you know, being a big big component of that. So, you know, very excited, and, I think it's gonna be a huge win. And then, you know, there's also the big nuclear plants that, you know, I I'm excited to see come to life again as well. You know, Westinghouse, you know, is announcing, you know, a number of very big APW 1,000 campuses that, you know, we think will play another big part in in terms of getting the power we need for intelligence.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm very excited about that. I hope that we get all those campuses online as fast as possible. Well, thank you so much for coming by the show. To
Speaker 2:Great to get the update.
Speaker 1:We will talk to you soon. Congratulations on the match.
Speaker 2:Congrats to the whole team, please. Awesome. Always great
Speaker 10:to see you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Fantastic progress.
Speaker 2:We'll talk
Speaker 1:to you soon.
Speaker 2:Have a great weekend. Cheers.
Speaker 1:Up next, we have Tucker from Orion Technologies. We are running a little bit behind. Let me tell you about fin dot a I, the number one AI agent for customer service, number one in performance benchmarks, number one in competitive bake offs, number one ranking on g two, and let's bring in Tucker for a quick hit of the gong. Give us the news. Tell us what you're building.
Speaker 2:We Welcome to the show. Would love to ring
Speaker 1:the gong for you. How are you doing?
Speaker 12:I'm doing well. I can't hear you, really. It sounds like you're speaking in slow motion.
Speaker 1:Oh, odd. Check. Check. Check. Check one two.
Speaker 1:Orion Technologies, you're coming out of stealth. Would love to hear about the rays. If you can take us through just the high level, we can ring the gong, and maybe we can try and have you back on later. Do we have Tucker? Let's see.
Speaker 1:We might need to move on if we have technical difficulties. We can always have you back on the show another day. Should we I can
Speaker 12:you guys hear me?
Speaker 2:We can hear you.
Speaker 1:We can
Speaker 2:hear you great. We can hear you great.
Speaker 1:Let's see.
Speaker 12:I can I can hear you guys, but it's it sounds very slow for some reason? Okay. Okay. We'll let you do one question. Yes.
Speaker 12:I'm the CEO of, I'm the CEO of Orion Technologies, and, we're coming out of stealth after a 3 and a half million dollar prefeed.
Speaker 1:Let's go. Jordy, ring that dong. Thank you very much. Take us take us one level deeper, about the problem, the solution, what you're building, and then we do have to move on. But please give us a little bit more on the progress of the company, some of the decisions that you've made, how you're thinking about building the company.
Speaker 12:Yeah. So we are building, essentially, the interoperability layer for manned and unmanned aircraft. So what does that actually mean? We enable manned and unmanned aircraft to communicate, coordinate, and deconflict, and we're starting with heterogeneous assets. So drones built from different vendors within cities and around airports today.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Congratulations. We're gonna have to have you back on later. We'll do a technical check next time. But have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 1:Have a good weekend. And And
Speaker 2:congrats on the race.
Speaker 1:Congrats on the race. We'll talk to you soon while we bring in our next guest. Let me tell you about Adio. Customer relationship magic. Adio is the AI native CRM that builds scales and grows your company to the next level.
Speaker 1:You can get started for free.
Speaker 2:New technical difficulty unlocked. We haven't seen that before.
Speaker 1:We have Catherine from Valthos coming in to the TVPN UltraDome. She, I believe, is in the Restream waiting room. Let's bring her in. Kathleen. Welcome back to show.
Speaker 2:Welcome back.
Speaker 1:We had you on the show, and it was a very fun conversation. And we there were some things that we could talk about. There were some things that we couldn't talk about. I'm glad that we're here today, and we have plenty to talk about. But please, kick us off with an introduction on a little bit more on yourself and the company and what you're announcing today.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Last time I was here, I was so stealthy. But now very excited to, announce what we've been working on. I'm Kathleen. I'm the cofounder and CEO of Valtose, which is the next generation biodefense company.
Speaker 6:So we are trying to build infrastructure for American biodefense.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:And when we had you on, there were some create wasn't it? There was some story in the news about, like, some some, like, Chinese, like, scientists that had that were bringing some type of bioweapon around or at least working on it. So good to have you back with some more I guess happy news.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to know the state of, like, what are the case studies that you're latching onto? You know, in the early days of of Andoril, there was this narrative around the rising power of China and our decrepit, military systems. People would talk about the failure of the or not the the delays with the f 35 program.
Speaker 1:Do you have particular case studies and stories that you like to ground the the story of your company with?
Speaker 6:Yeah. Absolutely. So when we're talking about biodefense broadly, the big problem is asymmetry. So it is just so much easier, cheaper, and faster to make a pathogen than it is to make any kind of cure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 6:And that's just, like, at the heart of everything we're talking about. It was true before AI, but what's really changed is how some of these new AI capabilities are magnifying that type of asymmetry.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. It's
Speaker 6:two big ways that we're focused on in terms of the case studies you were saying. The first is more about uplift. So it's how many people, how much technical skill set does it take to actually engineer a pathogen, and that's just dropping week over week. So we used to be worried about these sophisticated state sponsored programs. You can you can read what our folks in defense are focused on in, Russia and North Korea.
Speaker 6:Now we can talk about, like, a couple students maybe at the grad level who have access to a lab, and, like, that's probably going down to one or two, as these capabilities expand. So, like, massive, massively different landscape. Yep. The second side is just, like, how potentially lethal can these fets be? So we're getting
Speaker 1:I think we have more technical difficulties. It's a technical difficulty day.
Speaker 6:Oh, no.
Speaker 1:It's Friday. The interview is slow, but you're back.
Speaker 6:I'm back.
Speaker 1:Please. Maybe I maybe I can reframe the conversation not to Yeah. Kinda just cut you off and restart. But people have been saying we need an anderall for bio for a while. Is that an appropriate moniker?
Speaker 1:And maybe we could use the anderall example as understanding, a little bit deeper on what you wanna build because I think of Andoril as very much, you know, separate from Palantir. They're building hardware. They're building specific programs of record for the DOD, competing against the primes. Are there companies that you're gonna be competing with out of the out of the gate? How do you think about the shape of the business as it grows?
Speaker 1:Is this on our side? Are we having technical difficulties on our side today?
Speaker 2:It might be a Zoom. It might be a Zoom thing.
Speaker 1:Is there a is is there a major attack? Let's, let's flip over to the production team. What what do you guys have to say for yourselves? What's going on?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Is it AWS two point o?
Speaker 6:Tyler? It could easily be us. I seem to be back now.
Speaker 1:Okay. We yeah. I think we have I think you're back.
Speaker 6:More chance Okay. At talking about, the Andrew comparison.
Speaker 11:Please.
Speaker 6:I would say, probably much closer to Palantir than Andro. I mean, one of one of the obvious ones is, like, what, what does our product look like? And we're talking about software
Speaker 1:Software.
Speaker 6:And how we bring, like, the the best frontier capabilities to both understand what a threat is and then very quickly design a countermeasure to it? How do we take those things that are that are largely in academic labs emerging really quickly and put it into something that's operational? It could actually react in the time as real time data flows in and you actually need to design a countermeasure. But in terms of the overall, do we need private sector innovation in this space? Absolutely.
Speaker 6:Like, people in defense and health that are absolutely at the front lines of this, keeping us safe now. The pace of biotech innovation is so massively outpacing out pacing our ability to react to it Mhmm. That, like, we have to start bringing these types of tools, to really augment the defenses that we have today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Question from the chat. Trey asked, Moderna designed the c nineteen vaccine in two days in a clinical dev today. The slow part is often validation trials, manufacturing, and access distribution. Is Valve, though, solving for that for biodefense?
Speaker 6:Thanks, Trey. Yes. I think a huge part of it is how how accurate you can make, predictions that are coming from computational models.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 6:How did this translate, into clinical development, translational? Can you actually have a really precise understanding of what these therapeutics look like as soon as you start designing them in silico. So that's a huge part of our focus is, as more and more generative methods for countermeasure design come online, how can we help the people that are designing those drugs really quickly understand whether it will be effective against whatever kind of evolution we're seeing in terms of the of the pathogen landscape? I think on the manufacturing and supply chain side, another massive problem when we think about overall biosecurity for America. It's not it's not the first challenge we're taking on, but it's certainly something we'll partner on in the future.
Speaker 1:How do you think about, I don't know. There's, like, like, ISR versus, like, actual bombs or something in the Andoril context. Like like, Palantir might make a map of, like, where all the bad guys are, and then Anderol might be the one that builds the missile. How do you think about like, does America have the ability to pull up a dashboard of every different strain of flu that is at LAX right now? Because I know LAX is like a famous petri dish of of, you know, you just like different flus and colds because everyone's traveling from all over.
Speaker 1:Do we have the ability as a country to actually understand what's going on biologically across the country?
Speaker 6:Largely, no. It's getting better. Mhmm. I think there's two dimensions to it. So a lot of the innovation we've seen in the last couple years is focused on do we even have, like, the lens?
Speaker 6:Like, is the data even flowing in of what's, circulating in LAX? Or I'm closer to JFK, so that's the one that really hits home that I get worried about. The part that we're focused on and what I think has to be the next step is how do you take those data inputs and make them actionable so you can do something with it. So pathogens aren't static. It's not like there is something today, and that's what we need to worry about.
Speaker 6:It's how is this changing, which means that in two weeks, what is the shape of this that we're going to have to hit? So a big part of what we're focused on is trying to understand these are the things that are emerging today. How quickly do we know that there are threats? And then what do we need to change in terms of the countermeasures that we have to be ready for what's ever coming? So really focused, and I think that's where a lot of the Palantir analogy comes in.
Speaker 6:It's not, you know, data for data's sake. It's how do you actually pull that data into the decision making process
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 6:So that you can start seeing changes in operations, and that's what we're excited to do.
Speaker 1:That makes a ton of sense. Give us the fundraising news. What happened? What's coming out of Stealth?
Speaker 6:What well, we are very proud to announce that we raised 30,000,000.
Speaker 2:Congratulations. Incredible. Who who are the backers?
Speaker 1:Bunch of no names. Right? You really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel. Had to put together a ragtag group of you could barely call these guys venture capitalists.
Speaker 6:Everyone wants to prevent bioweapons. What can I say?
Speaker 1:No. It's a murderer's role. You got a bunch of great a bunch of great firms in.
Speaker 2:FF? We also
Speaker 6:We do. We have Founders Fund and Lux. They've been with us from the beginning. There you go. And then we just had OpenAI, their startup friend join in Yeah.
Speaker 6:To help lead the round there. Like, they have been ringing the alarm on what the bio the risk of some of these new frontier methods are for bio, like, way before anyone, and we're super excited to partner with them to try to stop it.
Speaker 1:Well, congratulations. Incredible. We'd love to have you back on the show when whenever the next announcement is, whenever the next, progress point comes. Or whenever hopefully, we don't have to be giving you a call when bad stuff happens. We can just talk about promises.
Speaker 1:And
Speaker 2:Celebrate these wins.
Speaker 1:You'll you'll you'll be like a a good cornerback in the NFL. We won't we won't hear about you because you will be defending us, and we won't be calling you out
Speaker 9:something Perfect.
Speaker 6:We'll prevent the headline. Exactly. Thanks a lot, guys.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much.
Speaker 4:Great to
Speaker 1:have you. Great to you guys.
Speaker 2:The team.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you about 8sleep.com. I put up a generational run last night, 98. I slept for like ten hours. It was fantastic. Jordy, how'd you do?
Speaker 1:Did you Ninety one.
Speaker 2:Ninety one? How many hours did you actually sleep?
Speaker 1:Let's pull it up while we bring in our next guest. Yeah. I slept eight hours and forty two minutes.
Speaker 2:Wow. That's and I got to the gym.
Speaker 1:Get a Podfather.
Speaker 2:I got to the gym thirty at least thirty
Speaker 1:minutes before you and
Speaker 2:my drive is twice as long.
Speaker 1:This whole week is So
Speaker 2:you were slacking.
Speaker 1:For me. I was slacking. But our next guest is from NVIDIA. Dion Harris is here.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Down for us. How are
Speaker 2:you doing? I'm looking incredibly sharp.
Speaker 1:You look fantastic.
Speaker 8:Thanks for having me. I didn't wanna make you guys look bad, so I I even threw on the jacket.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Yeah. You too. Little bit. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:So great to have you on. And great to meet.
Speaker 1:Would love to get a little bit of an introduction on yourself and where you sit in NVIDIA. It's, it's not the smallest company in the world. It is, in fact, the largest company in the world. But but, how how do you how do you position yourself within the firm? What's top of mind for you today?
Speaker 8:Sure. Thanks thanks for having me again. So Dion Harris. I'm the senior director of our HPC AI and Cloud Solutions Group. So not a very imaginative marketing name, which means I run a lot of our HPC, scientific computing national labs.
Speaker 8:Obviously, we're here in D. C, so, you know, lots of engagement supporting a lot of our national labs both here in The US and across the world. And of course, AI and cloud speaks for itself in terms of a lot of our hyperscale clients as well as the cloud providers who are building and delivering our platform. So engaging with a lot of those folks, partners, customers and internally, obviously, to bring those solutions to market.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How big do you have like a headline number that you're thinking about broadly for, just AI infrastructure? It's the the hottest topic these days, but how how do you think about forecasting AI infrastructure and where we'll be in a few years?
Speaker 8:Well, you know, I think Jensen has been on record and I think it's a pretty sound, sort of estimate. We expect it to be about 3 to $4,000,000,000,000
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 8:In AI infrastructure spend. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big number. It's with a t.
Speaker 8:So and I think what's really driving that, and I've been listening to the show and hearing, you know, there's a ton of demand for how and where AI can be put to use. Of course, we're familiar with the chat box that we knew, you know, use and to speed up our email communications and to, you know, review and spell check. Those are great use cases. But what's really exciting is when you see it being used to detect new drugs and so there's new use cases that are happening in drug discovery all the time. I do a ton of work with national labs and seeing how it's being applied to climate and weather, being able to replace a lot of our old numerical based approaches.
Speaker 8:And so using AI to go and tackle really big problems that we all care about, even if we don't see and use those applications every day, we're impacted by them, right? And so, what's really driving that number is, like I said, also looking at how AI is being brought to industries. You're going to hear a lot about next week when we announce at GTC how we're helping industry adopt AI. And this is really important, not just in terms of the bottom line of US companies, but really making The US competitive in a global scale. Right?
Speaker 8:Making sure that we can deploy and run and build and manufacture at an efficiency that makes us competitive on a global scale. And so that's really gonna be a lot of what we talk about here at GTC next week.
Speaker 1:Do you have do you have one of the easier jobs in tech? Just because if I'm a data center operator, I have to answer questions about, well, am I using natural gas or clean energy? And if I'm an inference model creator, I have to answer questions about, are the answers truthful, or are they fair, or am I generating something that's valuable, or am I generating slap? But NVIDIA, feel like has the perfect it's just the perfect business because it's you're already optimizing for the most efficiency. So no one can say, oh, well, you're you're not taking energy efficiency seriously.
Speaker 1:Like, that's the entire
Speaker 2:And no one can say you're unprofitable.
Speaker 1:And no one can say you're profitable. So, like, how are are you feeling good right now? Are you feeling are you feeling happy? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What's the energy like even even internally at NVIDIA? I'm curious. It's gotta be Well like, such a wild environment. It's great.
Speaker 8:It it's, you know, definitely, you know, incredibly crazy right now. What I would say is just because there's so much interesting excitement around, not just AI, but accelerated computing. Yeah. A lot of what we do, you know, we're an accelerated computing company at heart. Yeah.
Speaker 8:And there's, you know, over a trillion dollars of infrastructure that's still moving from CPU to GP GPUs. In fact, Oracle just last week announced that they're going to be accelerating their their classic database. No way. Now, that's, most people don't think about databases That's
Speaker 1:crazy on on GPUs.
Speaker 8:Know, they're back ending every major application. And so, you know, when we think about Nvidia, you know, obviously accelerated computing is how we've really got started. And now that we're in this era of AI, we're really looking to help power every application across multiple industries. But to answer your question, we wake up thinking about how can we make our platform better?
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 8:And how can we make it more efficient? Because that's really at the core of the value for our customers. But we're actually doing a ton of work beyond just our core platforms. In fact, our solutions are shaping and redefining how the data center overall is built. Yeah.
Speaker 8:And so a lot of the work that we're doing is building solutions and blueprints and reference architectures that help the entire ecosystem get ready for what we're building, which delivers more efficiency at the at the end state. So, again, I think our position is unique in the marketplace in that we totally see and understand all the new new models that are being developed and coming coming to market. We obviously understand what our products are gonna be able to do today and going forward, and we therefore are giving lots of insight into all the mechanical, electrical, and plumbing infrastructure providers. The power generation folks. Yeah.
Speaker 8:How do you think about We're we're giving a lot of of feedback all the way up the up and down the supply chain.
Speaker 1:That yeah. That Oracle database on GPU thing is it feels massive to me. It feels like very significant, like, immediately, very tangible, you know, performance benefits I can imagine. I I haven't seen the actual actual stats, but I imagine it's extremely it's it's going to be more efficient or faster. But, how do you balance marketing, like, sort of stories like that, stories about the AI build out with stuff that's more futuristic, more further out.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of, debate on the timeline this week about
Speaker 2:Star Cloud.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How fast GPUs will be in space, and everyone's saying like
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Look. Like, we love this founder. We're having him on the show actually, next week. It's a really exciting project, but I think everyone kind of agrees that this is not gonna happen tomorrow. And the and the the rendering, the the the sci fi it's more of a sci fi movie that they put out shows like, you know, the whole truckloads of GPUs moving around in space.
Speaker 1:How how do you think about balancing that from the NVIDIA brand perspective?
Speaker 8:Well, from our perspective, you know, we recognize that, like I said, there's a lot of interest and investment. Like, we talked about that 3 to $4,000,000,000,000 that's gonna be invested in AI infrastructure. Of And, course, that infrastructure is going to be deployed, you know, in lots of different areas. Obviously, as we've talked about how a lot of the concentration historically has been around, you know, highly populated dense areas. But now we recognize, you know, AI factories can exist anywhere.
Speaker 8:They can exist anywhere where there's, you know, cheap, clean power. And so, obviously, space is someplace where there's lots of renewable energy. Yeah. So, yeah, suspect that will certainly be a place where data centers will land eventually. But right now, you know, we're really focused on how can we help build the infrastructure that's right in front of us and help really deploy that in the most efficient, performant way as possible.
Speaker 8:And of course, along the way, make sure that we're adding value because that's really what what we're here to do, for not just ourselves, but the broader ecosystem.
Speaker 2:You would you would laugh. We are running the numbers on building a hearth or a wood powered data center server here at the studio. We think we think they're
Speaker 1:Surprisingly doable. Like, out of, like, a normal fireplace, we believe you could potentially power eight h one hundreds and fine tune GPTOSS however you want it over the course of a day, basically. Wait. That's right. We haven't we we we haven't we haven't
Speaker 2:We wanna be we wanna be the first NVIDIA customer to be focused on the wood power data center.
Speaker 1:Yes. There's It's part of it's our own of the market map. It's very cozy to chop firewood and, and and boil water as they did hundreds of years ago. That's right.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm super excited for for GTC next week.
Speaker 1:Yeah. This is great. Yeah. Thank you so much for giving us a preview.
Speaker 2:For giving us a preview. And Thanks
Speaker 1:for having weekend. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2:Great hanging.
Speaker 8:Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 1:Before we bring in our next guest, let me tell you about public.com investing for those who take it seriously. They have multi asset investing industry that yields and are trusted by millions.
Speaker 2:Soon billions.
Speaker 1:I think we might actually have a one minute break
Speaker 2:before next guest comes in.
Speaker 1:There's no one in the restream waiting room or is there? No. Not yet. So give us a post, Jordy Hayes. If someone's smart if someone is smart but has bad aesthetics, normies will not take them seriously.
Speaker 1:This is good. Aesthetic aesthetic contains real information. This post is from Defender of Basic That this category of smart people can't read, and if they gain power, these blind spots will lead to their undoing. I completely botched this reading. This is a mess.
Speaker 2:Let's Here's another one. Alex Danko. Sundar Pichai said yesterday or a couple days ago, new breakthrough quantum algorithm published in Nature today. Our Willow chip has achieved the first ever verifiable quantum advantage. Willow ran the algorithm, which we've named quantum echos.
Speaker 8:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:13,000 times faster than the best classical algorithm on one of the world's fastest super supercomputers. This new algo can explain interactions between atoms and a molecule using nuclear magnet magnetic resonance, paving a path toward potential future uses in drug discovery and material science. The result is verifiable, meaning its outcome can be repeated by other quantum computers or confirmed by experiments. This breakthrough is a significant step toward the first real world application of quantum computing, and we're excited to see where it leads. Again, see this positioning right?
Speaker 2:It's positioned as an internal science project. Yes. Of course, he's saying it's a step toward the first real world application of quantum.
Speaker 1:Did you see what Martin's currently said?
Speaker 2:What did he say?
Speaker 1:Contrived results, still not faster slash advantage. He's like so bearish.
Speaker 2:Alex Danko though says I'm okay. I'm sorry if
Speaker 1:this is a dumb question. Elon Elon, congrats. And I think I I when I see this and I see the algorithm and I see what like, how they're talking about it, it really does feel like, yes, over the next decade, like, there could be some really, really powerful niche use cases that
Speaker 2:are extremely helpful here. It's a good it's a good quantum computer, sir.
Speaker 1:I agree. I agree. But
Speaker 2:One more post before
Speaker 1:we got Did explain you why quantum computers look like that? Because that's what Alex Danko is asking. And there is an answer. It's, because they're, they need to be cooled. They need to be really cold.
Speaker 1:And so you have to hang it instead of attaching it to the floor. Each layer of the chandelier is colder down to the last one where the quantum computation is taking place. And so you see this chandelier funneling smaller and smaller and colder and colder until you get to the very very tip. I don't know. Interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, we have our next guest in the restream waiting room. Let's bring him in to the TVP and UltraDome. How are you doing, Berkay?
Speaker 2:Berkay. Welcome.
Speaker 1:Good to see
Speaker 5:you. Hi, guys.
Speaker 2:What's happening? Huge huge day.
Speaker 1:Congratulations on
Speaker 5:all In the
Speaker 2:in the fall ecosystem.
Speaker 11:Thank you. Thank you. So today, we are doing our inaugural generative media conference. Nice. I'm in Ferry Building.
Speaker 1:Very cool.
Speaker 11:You can probably tell. Beautiful venue. Yeah. It's it's a big milestone for us. It's it's you know, we we thought that generative media really needs its its space, and, you know, we need to we need to talk about it because it's it's an extremely big deal.
Speaker 11:And, you know, we thought we would we would honor this this, industry by by, you know, throwing throwing a big big event where foundational models are coming here, people from the industry are here. Jeffrey Katzenberg actually
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:Glad you.
Speaker 1:Very cool.
Speaker 11:That was that was pretty awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what, what what are what are attendees trying to, understand or or advance
Speaker 2:Yeah. What are people talking about? Yeah.
Speaker 11:Yeah. There is there is like, I mean, this is this is becoming a full industry. Right? So it's it's many there's many kinds of people here. So there's people from Foundation Model Labs.
Speaker 11:So they're trying to build these models, compete against the big big giants. Right? And it's a very diverse space. So unlike the language model market where you have a few big big winners, here, we're seeing, like, hundreds of companies building models, customizing models, and and using you know, their their customers are using in production. So there's foundational models.
Speaker 11:There's people from the industry. So media we had a talk from a architecture firm that's using generative media in production.
Speaker 2:Very
Speaker 11:cool. And and, yeah, like, early stage founders and, you know, even even, like, some big Hollywood Hollywood names, like, big big production studios.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Are people focused now on on benchmarks, evals, certain niche capabilities? Like, we're starting to see this, like, kind of refragmentation, I feel like, where Sora can do Cameos and v o three could do audio and certain Craya can do lip syncing well. And there's all these different subapplications where it feels like if you're a buyer of generative media, of tokens or, I don't need frames, I guess, you are really looking for the right tool for the job, and you might have to kinda go through the haystack to find the needle that fits your use case specifically. Is that the general vibe?
Speaker 11:Yeah. Absolutely. I think I think there is there's definitely alignment on how these models are getting more specialized.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 11:On one hand, there's there's general models. Like, I think Vio is is pretty general. Right? Like, can do many things. But on another hand, you need you need more, and, you know, what we're hearing from people is you need more and more specific workflows.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 11:So workflows is a very big topic, and we are now in the, like, kinda usefulness, utility phase of of this whole space where, like, there we go.
Speaker 2:Give it up for utility and usefulness. Love it.
Speaker 11:So so so we we're what we're seeing is, you know, people are building these building these tooling. Right? So they're they're building the application layer such that, you know, these downstream users from marketing, you know, architecture, gaming, movies, every so that, like, the creatives can start using this technology.
Speaker 2:Yep. How how is what's your view on how Hollywood has most recently been kind of navigating Gen AI? We we've heard from folks in the industry that people are experimenting with it, but they're hesitant to even talk about it too much because they get so much blowback from, you know, we're here down in LA. There's a lot of people that aren't excited about Gen AI for a number of reasons. But how do you see Hollywood navigating this current moment?
Speaker 11:Yeah. I mean, we're definitely feeling like a shift in the vibes. So they're definitely they're definitely turning towards the side of, like, experimentation. I know there there's, like, a a few good projects in the pipeline that are gonna come out. I think we're gonna see this shift happening towards the end of the year, early next year.
Speaker 11:And, yeah, we see we see very big players actually embracing this tech. And and, yeah, it's it's gonna be a Somebody chat here next year.
Speaker 2:Somebody in the chat just said you guys should get Hollywood on as a guest.
Speaker 1:We said we should.
Speaker 2:We'll work on that. Another question I had is, I I don't know how much you can share, but what what is what's Sora two adoption been like so far? How quickly are are a number of different application layer companies kind of turning it on and and burning up the GPUs?
Speaker 11:Yeah. It's been we we don't have, like, full visibility into Solaris adoption, but from what we know is it is a very good model for, like, a very certain aesthetic.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 11:Like, you can probably tell that it is extremely fine tuned on, you know, social content.
Speaker 1:Yep. Yep.
Speaker 11:So so, yeah, it it it is getting it is getting amazing adoption, but but, you know, this space is virtually infinite. Like, there there's literally all sorts of things you can do. That's that's why we believe, like, this we were just in the beginning. And, yeah, it's just it's just a form factor. Right?
Speaker 11:And and it it's just one kind of model. We think there's gonna be many, many versions.
Speaker 1:Totally. Can you walk
Speaker 2:me Yeah. But my my immediate reaction to Sora is, like, I could see this being used for, like, very specific if you wanted to generate UGC style ads, it could probably do
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:A a decent job at that. But that same application would also wanna generate ads in a bunch of different styles. Right? Cinematic styles, things like that.
Speaker 11:Exactly. And and, yeah, like, don't get don't get me wrong. I think, you know, that model like, it it's it's it's the pre training versus post training. Like, it it's you know, I would speculate that it is really fine tuned on this, like, social use case, but that doesn't mean that there is no, you know, amazing model in in in the in the back of it. So so, technically, they can crank out different things for different use cases.
Speaker 1:Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could go so much deeper on all this and all the the, like, comparisons of all the models. We'll have to have you back and because I know you're, at your conference and obviously need to get back and meet customers and whatnot.
Speaker 1:But thank you so much for taking the time to stop by and chat with us. Excited to have
Speaker 2:a bunch more folks on in the next thirty minutes or so.
Speaker 1:Yeah. This will be great. We'll talk to soon. Have a
Speaker 2:great weekend.
Speaker 11:Peace, guys.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you about adquick.com. Out of home advertising made easy and measurable. Say goodbye to the headaches of out of home advertising. Only ad quick combines technology, out of home expertise, and data to enable efficient seamless ad buying across the globe. Our next guest is Glenn Solomon from Notable.
Speaker 1:We'll bring him in to the TV in Ultradome.
Speaker 2:What's going on? Can you hear me? I cannot hear you. We don't have audio yet. No audio.
Speaker 2:I'm sure the production team is working on it. I will tell you when I can hear you. So just, I guess keep chatting, I guess. Still still nothing. How we doing, folks?
Speaker 2:We got nothing. We got nothing coming through. AGI is just days away, and we need AGI to put some resources towards technical difficulties for for podcast livestreamers. Anyways, we will I'll kill time. Here's a here's a post yesterday.
Speaker 13:Sounds good.
Speaker 2:Okay. I think we got some we got something coming Can you
Speaker 1:hear me?
Speaker 2:I can hear you.
Speaker 13:Ah, Jordy. Great. This
Speaker 2:is It's so great to see you, Glenn. An amazing amazing setup here. Are you, did you already give a talk? Are you are you going to give a talk? Or are you just
Speaker 13:I've been in the I've been I've been enjoying the the amazing talk so far, and I'm excited to talk to you about them.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Why don't you give a quick intro on on yourself and your firm, and then and then we can get into reactions from the event.
Speaker 13:Sure. Yeah. So I'm Glenn Solomon, managing partner at Notable Capital. We've been in business for twenty five years. We're a global venture capital firm focused on software infrastructure.
Speaker 13:And, one of the key personas we focus on as a software developer, we backed companies over the years like, Vercel recently, HashiCorp, some great businesses that we've been very fortunate
Speaker 2:Wait. What was what was the exact moment that you founded the firm?
Speaker 13:Twenty five years ago, February.
Speaker 2:No. I know. But like what was it 2000 was it March? Was it during the crash? Like, when when do you do you remember the month specifically?
Speaker 13:It was February.
Speaker 2:So early in the year. That's insane. So you basically went on a roller coaster. You started up here and then just That's actually
Speaker 13:Little known fact though. It's actually good to found a firm right about then because you don't
Speaker 1:get in Yeah. Don't even
Speaker 2:You can deploy you can deploy in the valley of despair.
Speaker 1:Wow. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Great great timing. Great timing. Amazing. So so, yeah, walk us through, some reactions to the event so far.
Speaker 13:So, you know, it's it's been really cool to be here. It's the first, generative media conference that False put on, really their first user conference. And there's about 300 people here, and you can just feel the energy amongst the developers who are building all kinds of amazing applications using GenerMedia. It kinda reminds me, I was lucky enough to invest early in HashiCorp in 02/2016. I was at their first user conference up in Portland, and there was a 150 people in the room.
Speaker 13:Basically, anybody who wanted to attend could. And it was, you know, a bunch of very intrepid DevOps professionals who saw the future somewhat similar to HashiCorp. And the reason I mentioned is because four or five years later, at, their user conference in San Francisco, there was 5,000 people. And I think this is the start of something very similar. We're gonna see this industry grow dramatically over the next several years, and it would not surprise me if, you know, Dreamforce Lookout, this this all generative media conferences could be really big over the next several years.
Speaker 2:I believe it. What Berkay was saying there's an architecture firm talking at the event on on how they're using. What what are some of the other maybe more like edge cases, niche use cases that you're seeing?
Speaker 13:Well, definitely advertising, marketing, you know, your feed on social media, entertainment, education, all of these things are people spend dramatic amounts of money today, hundreds of billions of dollars on content production for traditional media. I think that's all gonna shift over time, and we're just starting to see the early early days of that. But, clearly, there's going to be a shift because using generative media, you can move much quicker. It's less expensive. You could be much more targeted in what you do.
Speaker 13:So I think all those industries are experimentation mode, maybe first, second inning, but it's early. But one of the things I I, heard about today that I thought was really interesting is really the net new applications that I think are gonna come as well, things that don't exist yet today. A good, maybe, harbinger of that would be like, if you've ever been to the sphere, in in Las Vegas, you know, you look at the geometry there and the just sheer size of the place. Traditional media couldn't really solve that problem and create an immersive experience. And so that's a great area where generative media is doing something that couldn't be done in the past.
Speaker 13:So I think you're gonna see both replacement and over time net new. And I think that's that's why, people are so excited about what's going on here today.
Speaker 2:Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for stopping by the show. We'd love to talk to you more, but
Speaker 2:Yeah. First guest appearance from a podium.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Hey. I'm
Speaker 13:I'm a longtime listener, first time caller. This has been awesome. Thank you, guys.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Well, come back on again soon and, have fun out there. Give give our best to everybody at the event.
Speaker 13:We will. Love you. Thanks.
Speaker 1:See you, man. Cheers. We'll talk to you soon. Let me tell you about Bezl. You gotta go to getbezle.com.
Speaker 2:Just Just do it. A hitter.
Speaker 1:They're available now to
Speaker 2:source you any watch on I'm the I'm really pushing John to get the Cubitus. I think it's time Fantastic. Green dial.
Speaker 1:Well
Speaker 2:I wish I wish I had more time to give you the full my full, case for it, but we will move on to our next guest.
Speaker 1:We have Diego Rodriguez from Craya in the restroom waiting room. Welcome to the show, Diego. How are you
Speaker 2:doing? Welcome.
Speaker 9:What's up, Jace?
Speaker 2:How you What's happening?
Speaker 1:Talk to me about about the AI suite for creatives. I'm just particularly interested in this debate between, like, chopping wood and creating new workflows for specific video generation or AI use versus, like, trying to instantiate some things on the fly. I always see these like I made this amazing AI video. Here's how I did it, and it's piecing together, like, three different steps where they fine tuned on their face, and they did a special model that had a beginning and an ending frame. And then they did some sort of control net on top of it, and then they up res ed it.
Speaker 1:And how are you thinking about actually piecing all the different tools together in a way that someone it's like a the final UI effectively.
Speaker 9:I mean, like, I mean, I I'm here, like, at the fall conference, and I talk actually exactly about that.
Speaker 1:It's like Perfect.
Speaker 9:I am I don't know. It's kind of frustrating to see people being like, this is AI generated. This is not. Dude, it's a new medium.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 9:Like, it's it's just a new medium. So, like, whenever I see a frame by, say, now Hollywood is starting to toy around with these tools, like, the the best people tell you, like like, you you you don't ask them, like, is do you use Photoshop or After Effects or Houdini or AI? It's like, dude, all of them. Like, this was even a dialogue. When we were discussing about a certain idea, that's also part of the process of making things.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 9:I think we're far from automating, like, true storytelling, which is why we need tools. Where's the pencil for the latent space? That's what we need.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What what how do you think about what the actual product looks like that people want at each level of scale? Like, enterprise is fine with APIs, and they will have a team of software engineers, like, build the tools exactly that they need. Then the prosumer might be fine with a node based workflow or something that's a little bit more, you know, fine tuning parameters under the hood, but then they want something that's maybe repeatable that they can jump in and out of. And then the final consumer wants, like you know how you see those, like, dedicated app just for it's like just the face swapping app.
Speaker 1:And, like, face swapping is obviously a feature that should exist in the node based workflow in, Craya, in a prosumer, in a professional tool. So how how do you think about, like, checking the box on all the features out of the out of the gate versus leaving enough flexibility that your users might get lost because you don't you don't handhold as much.
Speaker 9:I think that, like, these barriers are, let's call them vestigial concepts from our culture. I think, like, we think those barriers are there because of where we come from, which is like, okay. We used to have their professional who goes to Photoshop, and everyone that is maybe doesn't need as much control goes to something like Canva. And then if you're just a random person that is toying around with making stuff, then you use a certain iOS app or whatever. But the reality is that a lot of these barriers used to just be APIs, like a certain plugin or a certain API call or whatever.
Speaker 9:And with VIVE coding, these they are blurring out now. So I actually see consumers who ask me, can you get an API? Because I've VIVE coded some things. And then I actually get enterprise has been like, oh, your UI is actually one of the best ones, and that's why we are doing these things. So I think that this is a time full of uncertainty.
Speaker 9:And when you have uncertainty, the only thing that can ground you is first principle. So you have to kinda, like, go back to Monke. Go back to the beginning. Like, think about what is truly true and what is just marketing fluff. Yeah.
Speaker 9:So the way I'm thinking is
Speaker 1:Do you think images and video are two separate products long term? Like, Premiere Pro is a different product than Photoshop. They are different, and even Lightroom is another product in the Adobe ecosystem. I can imagine you can I mean, it's just pixels? You can clearly put all the tools in one bucket, one app.
Speaker 1:Adobe didn't. Is that vestigial, or will we see another separation?
Speaker 9:I think separation will be here in the short term and midterm Yeah. Because you you can you can argue that, like, as we advance, there's actually even more separation. Right? Like like, at first, books were only in a certain way, and now there's a myriad of formats and images. And, like, can you even do books for, like, you know, for kids where they even have things inside that they, like, that they or, like, animations even.
Speaker 9:So I feel like as we push the medium, and by medium, mean the latent space, forward, we will actually realize that we need way more tools than we thought we needed. And that's why we're starting like, we've seen kind of, like, this Cambrian explosion of, like, okay. We have ControlNet. We have Confui. We have Crea.
Speaker 9:But then in Crea, you can, like, jump in between tools, then and you can use, say, an image model within many tools.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 9:And that's the key part, which is you said, it's just pixels. And he's like, yeah. But guess what? Like, a song can be represented as pixels if you have a, like, a certain frequency diagram. It's just pixels too.
Speaker 9:So at the end of the day
Speaker 1:Sheet music. It only scans sheet music. That's pixels.
Speaker 9:Yeah. So what what we have at the end of the day is a technology that can understand, like, information in almost its more distilled form.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 9:That technology can move our own products, but the product will be different. However, they will all use that same technology, and that's what we're seeing. Node based tool, image tool, iOS app, all connect to our image model, for instance, with CreaOne or FluxContext or whatever, but it's different applications.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating.
Speaker 2:We like to hit the gong for guests. Oh, yes. How many how many users does Korea have? What's the latest what's the latest
Speaker 1:Give us some stats. Give us some numbers. What you got? Big numbers.
Speaker 9:Last time I checked sign ups, it was, like, over 30,000,000. Oh. Oh. Congratulations.
Speaker 2:And That's wild.
Speaker 9:Yeah. And and then, but, like, I'm actually more interested on participating in, the enterprise because I'm starting to see true business adoption, and that's where it starts to be, like, stopping afar.
Speaker 1:Very auspicious gong ringing. I don't know if you can hear it, but the gong is still ringing for you. Yeah. Yeah. Something about how I hit it.
Speaker 1:It's very good.
Speaker 2:It was a very
Speaker 1:good omen.
Speaker 2:Bullish hit.
Speaker 1:It was very good omen for your company. 30,000,000 you know, we I I just wanna take a second because we get lost in like the AI boom or whatever that, 30,000,000 is so many. That is such a huge that is such a huge impact to have on a product that you've built. So sincerely, like, massive congratulations. That's very, very big.
Speaker 1:I I I'm and I feel like, you know, Sam Almond's out there throwing around trillions and stuff, and we lose track of the fact that 30,000,000. 30,000,000 is a lot of users, and and and congratulations. That's very great. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:The event.
Speaker 1:Yep. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2:Cheers.
Speaker 1:Have a good one. Up next, we have Justin Moore from a sixteen z. This is her second time on the show.
Speaker 2:Dylan in the chats. We've had lot that gong hit in my soul.
Speaker 1:The that gong hit was wild. Justine Moore, can you hear us? We're back on the podium. Hopefully, we have audio. Fantastic.
Speaker 2:Here we go. Loud and clear.
Speaker 7:I'm here. It's great to be back, guys.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. What is what what is new from you?
Speaker 2:Wait. Wait. Wait. Open open screen time. I wanna know how much Sora
Speaker 1:This is
Speaker 2:a good question. Let's see it. Let's see it.
Speaker 1:We know she loves This
Speaker 7:is not gonna be super impressive because I mostly use Sora on desktop.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Okay. Yes.
Speaker 2:Desktop user.
Speaker 7:I guess it's if I had to guess, it's probably like fifteen minutes a day.
Speaker 2:Fifteen minutes a day. Okay. In the feed in the feed or making?
Speaker 1:Making stuff. Right?
Speaker 7:I think I like the phone I okay. When I do it on the phone Yeah. I like to scroll through the feed and see what other people are making. On desktop, there's a lot more controllability with, like, the storyboard and stuff like that. Yep.
Speaker 7:And you can do landscape as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Power.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like you've you've given Sora the app enough data that you're actually getting fine tuned recommendations, or are you just seeing the cream of the crop because there isn't enough to give you specific things that you like? How what's the temp what take the temperature on the feed. You know what
Speaker 3:I'm talking about. Right?
Speaker 7:I think it is not yet enough content to be able to have a very personalized feed for everyone. Yep. But I'm not sure because I haven't seen anyone else's feed.
Speaker 5:Sure.
Speaker 7:Sure. Might be super different.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because, like, if I go on TikTok and I say, I like car videos and you go on TikTok and you say you like boat videos, like, pretty quickly, we're both gonna just get unlimited cars and no boats and vice versa.
Speaker 7:Yes.
Speaker 1:Interesting. How are you thinking about the we were just talking to Kreia about this, like, winning in the application layer for creativity. Like, Sora is a creative tool you can create on desktop with the storyboard. There's there's this world where we wind up with one app that instantiates UI on the fly, lets you do everything. There's another one where we see even more bifurcation just like we have Lightroom and Photoshop and Premiere and After Effects.
Speaker 1:We could wind up with 20 apps for individual little fine tune of face upres over here. How do you think it's gonna play out?
Speaker 7:Yeah. It's a great question. I think, honestly, at the beginning of the wave, we thought maybe there'd be a little bit more concentration than there has been. The market just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and we keep seeing more specialized apps.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 7:I think because these creative AI tools are enabling all of these people who couldn't create content before to make content for the first time.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 7:And so that unlocks a bunch of different verticals who weren't using creative tools much before. So my guess is, like, there'll be some kind of horizontal tooling layers, whether they're for developers, like what the folks at Fall are doing, which is awesome, or for consumers, prosumers. And then I think we're also gonna start seeing more vertical specific applications, just like we've seen with LLMs, honestly. Like, we've seen a lot of for accounting, for law, for finance. For sure.
Speaker 7:Sure. Different industries and different personas have different use cases and workflows.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's interesting. I haven't thought about it that way because when I think of, like, an AI law firm, I don't think them I don't think about them as, like, fine tuning tokens or, like, running a specific but it is it it is it is very much the same. How are you thinking about the mobile versus desktop divide? You're you're obviously experiencing it on Sora.
Speaker 1:But Yeah. Are you seeing a a bifurcation where you might actually back a company that's saying, oh, we're going after mobile gen AI in this particular niche, or we're going desktop. And is that a meaningful designation, or are companies with vibe coding able to kind of, go multiplatform on day one? Obviously, OpenAI was, but they have a lot of resources.
Speaker 7:I think sort of the mobile versus desktop speaks a lot to sort of the user persona and use case. What we've seen so far is that stuff that blows up on mobile tends to be consumer products Yeah. Where you don't have to put a ton of work into editing the output, into having super long prompts. Things like Sora two, or like LENSSA, if you guys remember, which blew up a couple years ago now to make these like AI profile pictures of you.
Speaker 2:It huge.
Speaker 7:I think like, true true creative workflows and really detailed editing tend to require bigger screens. Yeah. We've actually seen more companies start looking at iPad apps too, is crazy It's to not just like four year olds on iPads, it's like real creative professionals because people love to kind of draw on them, and it and it's a larger screen that enables kind of more knobs and dials.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What are you seeing on, on the monetization side for pure AI content creators? I know you track a lot of these accounts. I'm interested, to see if if some of these again, like, not not just a content creator that might use AI here or there, but, like, a new content creator that only makes AI content. Will they monetize via, you know, influencer style marketing?
Speaker 2:Will they go straight to doing deals with, you know, the Netflixes or other streaming platforms? But curious what you think there.
Speaker 7:Yeah. It's so early. It's hard to say. I think, like, how it started was people started growing these sort of AI only accounts and monetizing in the traditional ways, which was, like, ad revenue or kind of some share of the views you got on your video, things like that on platforms like x and and TikTok and Instagram. I've also seen, honestly, a ton of the ways that AI creators monetize is by selling, like, prompts or courses or teaching other people how to make the same things just because there's so much demand, and most people are not experts at these tools.
Speaker 7:I think it's gonna be really interesting to see, like, when we start to see more AI native IP or characters that can, like, appear in a Netflix show or have a song that they release on Spotify and they kind of get a cut of the streaming revenue. We've already started to see some of that, like that AI actress. And we've seen some in music too, especially in Asia, but I think we're just at the very early stages of that.
Speaker 1:Yep. That makes sense. Are you are are you losing the ability to actually define a particular AI virality moment? Like, Lenza era was definitely a thing. Everyone had the magic avatars.
Speaker 1:The Studio Ghibli moment was a moment. Then maybe it was, like, the Sam Altman stealing GPUs era with Sora, but I feel like we're just now in, like, the Sora moment, and maybe it just becomes an era. But, and the Italian brain rot, like, are are are we accelerating? Are you feeling acceleration where you can't start you can't even track all the memes because they just happen so fast?
Speaker 7:Yes. I used to keep, basically, the spreadsheet where I tracked, like, the number of impressions as far as I could guess from like certain trends, or launches, or announcements, or things that would happen. And I gave up on it probably like six or so months ago because there were so many things happening at once. Was like Nano Banana, and v o three, and Sora, and like two new Chinese models that were amazing, and like, the World Labs launch, like, there were just 20 things happening, like, every day. And and I think the interesting thing about that too is like, different people are excited by different things.
Speaker 7:Like, sometimes I talk to people who are really deep in AI creativity, but they're really into one part of it, and so they don't even know about the other the other launches because it's so hard to keep up with everything right now.
Speaker 1:What was the NanoBedam? I'm using
Speaker 2:the MetaVibes app too much. I can't I'm sorry. I don't have time for
Speaker 1:anything else. What was the what was the Nano Banana, like, viral, like, moment or driver? Like, what was the the canonical, like, thing that you would prompt that Nano Banana did so well that made it really popular?
Speaker 7:I mean, the the interesting thing about Nano Banana was I think it wasn't just one prompt. Yeah. It was a series of them. Mhmm. There was, like, the Polaroids putting yourself in a different era.
Speaker 7:Oh. And then there was making yourself an action figure. And then Okay. One I've been following this week on TikTok is, like, college kids are making videos of them, like, hugging their younger selves Oh, nice. That they create.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Like, with with them and their younger self on Nano Banana.
Speaker 1:What do you think of that? Going. I'm not a fan. I think
Speaker 7:it's not I mean, don't we all wanna hug our younger self?
Speaker 1:No. Not at all. I'd say,
Speaker 2:toughen up. Yeah. Toughen up. Pull up the boots Now that I'm picking you up by your bootstrap. I would I would
Speaker 1:make an AI But yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would make an AI video that my younger me picking myself up by my bootstraps.
Speaker 1:There you go. Okay. So, you know, we're close there. We're we we we will we will be participating in, like, the next slight iteration of the of the viral sensation. No, I won't be hugging myself.
Speaker 1:That feels very odd to me.
Speaker 7:You can do a new one of you yelling at your younger self if
Speaker 2:you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is
Speaker 3:a free idea of sports. But,
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, a lot of these are a lot of these are odd. Stephen Hawking at the x games is odd. A cat Yes. Steamrolling its way through a house is odd. But I love I love both of those.
Speaker 2:But it's important. It is important. Yeah. Humanity needs these videos.
Speaker 1:I think we do. I think we do. I think we do
Speaker 2:need Oh, laugh laughing is important. Yeah. Laughing is
Speaker 1:It is it is creativity. Whoever prompted it was creative. I would not have thought to put Stephen Hawking at the x games, and someone did.
Speaker 7:Me neither.
Speaker 1:What else is are people talking about? What are the key, like, stress points? Are people worried about, like, AI bubble generally? Is it all just about, like, let me find the the most efficient inference arbitrage or inference provider, the the the best AI factory? Like, what what are the current, discussions?
Speaker 1:I imagine it's not doom anymore. That one's kinda moved on. What what are people talking about at this particular conference?
Speaker 7:Yeah. We we actually had an investor panel earlier with a bunch of great folks kind of talking about those sorts of things. I think like the the bubble question is an interesting one. Yeah. I personally don't think we're in a bubble.
Speaker 7:I think like just the true demand for the products is massive, and we're seeing companies grow faster than ever before, and also retain users higher than ever before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 7:A lot of a lot of folks, like I'm sure you guys do, have questions about kind of gross margin. I think like we find that margins tend to improve over time as you've seen in many eras of consumer software, Amazon and Uber and DoorDash. Like a lot of these companies were gross margin negative or neutral at the beginning, and then kind of become more efficient over time as they scale and and unlock various network effects. Yeah. I think where I would be worried we were in a bubble is if the margins were all negative and the retention sucked.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Because then it's like you're not actually building products that people want, and you're raising a lot of money for it.
Speaker 2:Or if there was only like a 100,000 real users or something like that. Totally.
Speaker 7:Exactly. Which
Speaker 2:we've seen before in different tech trends.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No. Totally.
Speaker 1:Totally. I mean, yeah, we just talked, to Korea. Like, 30,000,000 users is like very significant. Like and Chatuchi BT, close to a billion users. Like, it's just it's just accelerating much faster, and the distribution is there.
Speaker 1:And it's a lot because, like, Stripe exists. Like, you can just actually get $20 a month out of someone pretty easily, and you couldn't do that in 1999. It was just no way. And so you had to say, well, we'll monetize the eyeballs later, and we'll do ads, and people will pay, and it became this kind of weird circular economy. But now you can just be like, how much value am I delivering to your business?
Speaker 1:Put down your card and we'll Yeah. Pay for it or churn, which is great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to stop by during a busy conference.
Speaker 2:Second ever podium guest. Time
Speaker 1:chatting with you.
Speaker 7:I'm honored. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 2:Yes. We'd love to have back. Fun at the event and and give our best to everybody there. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Will do.
Speaker 1:And and and just so you know, we're we're coming for your lunch. We dropped our first market map. I don't know if you saw that. I'm But we dropped a media we dropped a media market map. So now we're in direct It's
Speaker 2:not schizo at all. It's not schizo at all.
Speaker 3:You know, the
Speaker 7:the competition fuels me. So I'm excited with
Speaker 2:Yeah. Fire back. Fire back Yeah. Response. With your own market map.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. This is like this is like a rap battle for people It's a map battle. That, it's a map.
Speaker 7:A rap battle that, like, five people are interested in.
Speaker 1:Yes. A rap battle for people who know how to read a term sheet or something. Anyway, thank you so much for stopping by. We will talk
Speaker 8:to you soon.
Speaker 2:Have a great rest Thanks, your
Speaker 7:guys.
Speaker 2:Goodbye. Gotta We take go over to this post from Marvin Von Hagen, which is one of the most, royal names. A sick name. This this man is is destined for, greatness. He quoted the essay that I published yesterday and and just with two excerpts from my my piece, he said, the Interaction Company of California has managed to really break through the noise and deliver a truly novel consumer AI product experience.
Speaker 2:Dot.dot. Nothing important. Don't worry about it. Poke.com itself is a fantastic domain and a name for their business and audience. So I just skipped over, of course, the criticism in there?
Speaker 2:No. Yeah. I was like I was criticizing the general sort of a gaming convention, but this was a absolutely perfect response. And I I really wanna have Marvin on the show. So Marvin, let's get you on the on the schedule next week.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. This is the nature of
Speaker 2:This was like Working with the chef's kiss. Yeah. Perfect response. What's going on here? Austin says, you should never use an em dash in your writing anymore.
Speaker 2:You will be a 100% be accused of using AI, especially if it's on social. That is true.
Speaker 1:I actually recently like, today, in the in the newsletter, I used just a minus sign instead of an em dash. And Brandon was like, certainly, we can use the em dash here. Like, you intended to use an em dash, and I was like, no. We're using the minus sign. We're using the wrong thing because I don't wanna deal with it's an Emdash.
Speaker 1:You used AI or whatever.
Speaker 2:Swap action.
Speaker 1:So I have completely sacrificed it. But what does Alyssa Pumpkin Queen say?
Speaker 2:That's what the clank, dropping the Emdash. That's what the clankers want you to do. Surrender the m dash, but by the grace of God, we will outmaneuver the clankers. Sink our hands into their motherboards and remind them what mankind can do. Let the clanker hold their position.
Speaker 2:We won't.
Speaker 13:We won't. Journalistic force headed
Speaker 2:So good. The way, the chat Yes. Chat wants us to do a conference.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And Ben Sands says, I'd go to the conference, but we needed a TBPN cruise. We I'm not joking. We've talked about getting a yacht Yeah. To park in the San Francisco Bay and do a conference there. So I would like to pull that off at some point, and the chat will be the first to know.
Speaker 2:Ohio has a new bill that goes far beyond blinker marriage. Far beyond banning human AI marriage. The measure would define AI systems as non sentient entities, strip them of any claim to legal personhood, forbid them from owning property, holding financial accounts, controlling IP, or acting as company directors.
Speaker 1:So it's basically game on if we get a humanoid. Like, we could it has no rights in Ohio. So if we take it to Ohio, it it like, unitary is gonna be sitting there being like, hey, guys. Why are we going to Ohio? You know, I I I'd love to stay in in I in a different state, because I would hate for you to, like, destroy me and then face no legal consequences because I have no rights in Ohio.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This this this Ohio clearly hasn't read, less wrong.
Speaker 1:It's not it's not, familiar with Rocco's Basilisk. Ohio might be the first place that the clankers descend on, and and Skynet goes on Yeah.
Speaker 2:They really put themselves on the crosshair, the clanker crosshair.
Speaker 1:On the aggress on the aggressive
Speaker 2:Daniel Tenrero has Before we
Speaker 1:read this, let me tell you about wander.com. Find your happy place. Book a wander with inspiring Hotel great amenities, dreamy beds, top two cleaning, twenty four seven concierge service. It's a vacation home, but better. What did Daniel say?
Speaker 2:He says, finally, some good news, which is that hedge fund assets hit 5,000,000,000,000 with most inflows since before the financial crisis. Great hit, John. Assets in the global hedge fund industry have surged to record 5,000,000,000,000 as investors poured money into alternatives and funds posted solid gains.
Speaker 1:Our Gong is gifted today. You hear this. Right?
Speaker 2:Still going.
Speaker 1:It's still going.
Speaker 2:Still going. Is it Head Funds saw net inflows of nearly 34,000,000,000 in the first three months through September with total returns across all strategies averaging 5.4% over the quarter. So underperforming the average terminally online zoomer that is just massively levered into the mag seven. Yeah. But, still still, not not so bad as a whole.
Speaker 2:Cryptocurrency hedge funds posted solid double digit gains in the third quarter recovering from sharp losses in early twenty twenty five to bring year to date performance to 6.7%. So
Speaker 1:Can we play this clip of, it's probably too long to react to.
Speaker 2:Bucco Capital, the legend says, I'm always so confused when Tesla goes down on earnings as the business performance is completely irrelevant to the price of stock. They put up, over 1,400,000,000.0, I think, of free cash flow as a trillion dollar company. So that's good.
Speaker 1:They beat earnings.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And the stock went down? Is that
Speaker 2:what No. No. No. No. I think they
Speaker 1:They missed earnings and the stock went up? I don't know. I I agree
Speaker 2:with No. He's saying they they missed, but he's and the stock traded down and he's like, why is it trading down?
Speaker 1:It shouldn't even matter. Shouldn't even matter. Let's split let's skip the the Dorsey reaction. We gotta get out of here. It's Friday.
Speaker 1:We we gotta start our weekend. Apparently, the the the sale of TikTok was a pawn sacrifice to open up the diplomatic trust chessboard. And Rune says it's pretty bad that Xi Jinping models TikTok as spiritual opium and feels okay selling it to the West in a revenge opium war setup. For Trump, facing the sale of the high profile app was a populist victory framed around national security. For Sijinping, however, the app was a low cost bargaining chip.
Speaker 1:He had privately dismissed it as spiritual opium according to the people close to Beijing and viewed as easy sacrifice to secure the continued dialogue on China that China needed. That makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 2:In It is more important geopolitical news, Justin Bieber is on Twitch. Michael Siebel says, almost nineteen years after we got started, we finally got Bieber. So never give up. And this was, I think, my favorite post of the week. It's now been deleted.
Speaker 2:I won't read the user's name, but I I I I think it's funny. It was a post that said, I honestly don't care if I get fired. I was part of the illegal gambling ring with Chauncey Billups and Terry Rose here. My name is Andy Jassy and I work at Amazon. So I
Speaker 1:These these like fake framing someone who did something is
Speaker 2:so Shareholders. Funny. Shareholders are
Speaker 1:I I didn't realize that like the there was a retail army for for Andy Jassy that cared about Andy Jassy and and and Amazon.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's tough when your stock goes up 20% year to date and people are still like calling for you to to to be fired. Yeah. But
Speaker 1:I think that's a good place to call it. We've had a fantastic
Speaker 2:You know where we're gonna call it?
Speaker 1:Show. Where are we gonna call it?
Speaker 2:We're gonna call it with with Gabe over at Sora. Okay. Sora was dethroned in the App Store by Dave's Hot Chicken.
Speaker 1:Play the wah wah.
Speaker 2:More of Sora. And a eagle sound effect for Dave.
Speaker 1:For Dave?
Speaker 2:Because something their team, I think, is just really cracked because I don't think this is the first time they've, like, charted number one.
Speaker 1:I think most people think that the Dave's Hot Chicken team is, like, one notch above the OpenAI team.
Speaker 2:In terms of just, you know, product design, growth
Speaker 1:Yeah. Just and and strategy.
Speaker 2:AI research.
Speaker 1:Research. Yeah. These types of things. I think most people think, it's sort of, like, you know, a hotbed of the best talent in the world.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I'm unsurprised. No. Seriously, the the Dave's Hot Chicken team must be cooking because something crazy happened in their marketing because to go to the top of the charts, even if it's momentum based, that means that they had some campaign that just hit. And it's not like it's the Super Bowl right now. Like, they must have had some crazy call to action to get that app to the top of the store.
Speaker 1:But congratulations to everyone at Dave's Hot Chicken. I'm a huge fan. I order Dave's Hot Chicken all the time. Maybe I the app. I usually use DoorDash.
Speaker 2:Never ordered it to the UltraDome.
Speaker 1:No, I haven't. But
Speaker 2:More of a weekend thing.
Speaker 1:More of a weekend thing. More of weekend thing. But Dave's Hot Chicken is awesome. Well Highly recommend.
Speaker 2:It is almost a weekend. Yeah. Weekend for our our East Coast audience. If you're on the West Coast, we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1:Continue your lock in.
Speaker 2:Please stay locked in at least until five. Hopefully, you're not leaving the office at five because it just looks bad. Yeah. It's like you just were hanging out
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Trying to trying to get the optics in. But we had a really fun week. Next week is gonna be wild as well. I I think it's gonna be a magnificent week.
Speaker 1:I think so, too.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be absolutely magnificent.
Speaker 1:I think it will be magnificent.
Speaker 2:And I can't wait to be back. So have a wonderful Friday. Have a wonderful Saturday. Have a wonderful Sunday. We will be counting down the hours until we are going live again on Monday.
Speaker 2:And thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 1:Goodbye.
Speaker 2:Cheers.