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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes range from 60 to 90 minutes and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards Podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Pagoda, and Bam Bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 122nd official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Glad to meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a new world cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it and give you our formal lizard rating.
We return to foundation cigars on a listener recommendation. We discuss our recent favorite TV finds, and I share my newfound love of the retro hail, all among a variety of other 90 minutes. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy. As we pair Colonel E. H. Taylor, Jr., Small Batch Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey with The Foundation, The Tabernacle, and Lancero.
A Nicaraguan Lancero tonight from [00:01:00] Foundation. It's called the Tabernacle Lancero. It's a 40 Ringgit cigar by 7 inches long. And boys, it's nice to be back with Foundation, which is one of the Most requested from listeners on Instagram and the email and this specific Vitola Comes very highly recommended from one of our friends in the lounge Lizard EDF.
Correct. So you've had the cigar BAM
**Bam Bam:** I have I've had it with CDF. Yeah, it's uh, it's a bold expression. It's very nice. It's the flavor punch.
**Gizmo:** So give us the preview. Wait a minute. Can I ask,
**Rooster:** why is the recommendation coming from EDF and not from you? I'm a, I'm a
**Bam Bam:** very quiet song.
**Gizmo:** We
**Senator:** know he keeps secrets.
**Bam Bam:** Are we doing like a secret?
**Gizmo:** Well, that's, I
**Rooster:** was waiting for that just like the Dubai
**Bam Bam:** attack. The moment we'd like hit record, we're not even a minute in. I'm imploring the listeners. [00:02:00] Please save me here. I'm
**Gizmo:** just
**Rooster:** wondering if you had that cigar, I mean, if you liked it and he's recommending and you're not, how come
**Poobah:** I like to pave the way for our listeners. There's a lot. Look, there's look, it all goes back to accountability.
You're going to take accountability for what you're going to recommend. Oh, you're not going to take accountability by, by saying, Eddie, I've recommended the cigar. If it rates poorly, you get an app. Therefore you're not accountable for wasting our time.
**Gizmo:** I get it now.
**Poobah:** He always goes back to the, to
**Gizmo:** the hour. There's got a
**Senator:** point.
**Bam Bam:** You know what? I'm leaving. This is not highly unexpected.
**Poobah:** And, you know, when it's not good, he goes, well, Eddie, he's just going to bust Eddie off. Well,
**Gizmo:** let me ask you this. This is a serious question. I do think you'll like this cigar.
I want to know, cause we did the Robusto in this line. Right. Uh, quite some time ago, I think almost 80 episodes ago or 90 [00:03:00] episodes ago. I, how would you compare this? This is a
**Poobah:** true. That seems
**Bam Bam:** like yesterday is probably a more concentrated version of it because of the diameter. Okay. The ring
**Gizmo:** gauge. Perfect.
Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah. All right, boys, let's cut this thing. See, we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. We're back to foundation. Nick Malilo is company. He used to be the master blender for drew a state very famously with Steve socket developed the legal line, which of course is the fundamental line.
I think the high level line. Truist day. People love that cigar and we have had some great experiences with it here and now he is with his own company in Connecticut Foundation.
**Bam Bam:** The draw here is wide open. Mm. Yeah. And very floral. I think mine's
**Senator:** really nice. It's crazy open. I don't think I've ever taken so little off a cigar.
This just happened unintentionally while I was cutting it. Mm-Hmm. . And I took a draw and it's even still wide open. Yeah. It's like
**Gizmo:** air just moving right through. So I gotta be honest, I took very little off and I feel lucky. [00:04:00] Versus what you guys were just saying about the draw. Yeah. That my draw has just a slight bit of resistance.
Which I prefer. I'm happy about that. I don't have that, I prefer that. Yeah. Yeah. What are you guys getting on the cold draw? New World, baby. It's like cocoa. Cocoa and floral for me. Yeah, cocoa and floral. A little floral. And some dried fruit, yes. Yeah, I was gonna say something. I'm getting a little salt, too.
Like a dark. You guys get more salt? A little bit. Say like a dark fruit, like a black cherry, black, uh. Yeah. Yeah, blackberry even. Plum. Plum.
**Bam Bam:** Plum. Plum. Plum. Blackberry actually is
**Poobah:** pretty accurate here. It's like, it's like the prune Danish from Rockland bakery with a cup
**Bam Bam:** of coffee.
**Gizmo:** The prune Danish. There's such a thing as prune Danish.
You ever had a prune Danish? They're fantastic. Sounds like something you need when you
**Poobah:** guys got to come. You guys got to come with me on a weekend and go up to Rockland bakery. Is there any, no,
**Gizmo:** no, no. I'm all
**Bam Bam:** in on pastries, dude. I don't care where the
**Poobah:** hell it is. If any of you ever been to Raccoon Bakery up in Yeah, huge.[00:05:00]
I've heard of it. I've heard of it. The kaiser rolls just come off the conveyor belt and you just grab them. I mean And they're hot. It's a
**Gizmo:** huge I've never I've never been anywhere near Costco. It's huge, right? It's a huge place. Fuck
**Bam Bam:** Costco. Look at that rooster go. Oh boy. Turn off his
**Gizmo:** fucking mic
**Poobah:** right now.
Let's light the cigar. I'll tell you all about that. The moment I said
**Bam Bam:** that, the look of disappointment. I loved it.
**Gizmo:** I'm going to shove that Opus Dubai up. All right, boys. Let's light this thing. Oh, brother. Here we go. The Foundation Tabernacle in Lancero. Again, it's 40 ring gauge cigar by seven inches long.
Classic Lancero size. We're back to revisiting the Lancero. We did quite a bit of these. At the beginning of 2023 throughout, and this one again came, uh, highly recommended from E. D. Ov, and some listeners, and not Bam Bam. Correct. Ooh, that's nice in the light. Oh yeah, very good in the [00:06:00] light. That's a smooth New World delivery, man.
And very tasty. What
**Poobah:** did you say
**Gizmo:** the, uh, blend was? So the wrapper is Connecticut Broadleaf, the binder is San Andres Mexican, and the filler is a combo of Nicaraguan tobacco from Esteli, Xalapa, and Hamastran. Gotcha. Three different kinds in there. Three different kinds of Nicaraguan tobacco. Exactly. In the, in the, uh, in the filler.
**Bam Bam:** And do we know how
**Gizmo:** much these are? Mm hmm. These are right around 11 bucks. So I think for a, for a New World Lancero at 11, I, you know, I think that's a pretty fair price. The combustion right
**Bam Bam:** off the bat is tremendous.
**Poobah:** It's excellent. Getting,
**Rooster:** getting like cocoa right off the bat. Oh yeah. And a little pepper on the back of your
**Bam Bam:** tongue.
On the finish. Yeah. Just a
**Poobah:** touch. It's real nice. Yeah, yeah. Love the construction. It's a beautiful. I love the appearance. Beautiful dark cigar. Great [00:07:00] combustion. And the band is really unique. The draw is good. The, the, the construction is good. The combustion's pretty good so
**Gizmo:** far. You know, it is one of these cigars that is deceiving to the eye.
If I were to walk into a cigar shop and look at this, having not smoked any of Nick Melillo's cigars before, I would look at this and say, this is gonna Beat me up. I know this is gonna knock me on my ass and that's not what this blend does very deceptive
**Poobah:** visually Yeah, the branding so dark Well the we and the branding has a little bit to do with it the black the gold and then you look at the wrapper so you're saying is this thing like like tabernacle and then the the the band is on the tabernacles are so cool.
It's beautiful. They're really nice. They're really nicely done. And I always like it when I see, so I'm putting my light on it.
**Bam Bam:** It's not a gold though. It's like a pewter with or a nickel
**Poobah:** color with a red outline.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And it's a deep, deep blue with a center piece of art. That's a lighter blue. It's almost like, um, a hologram type of a [00:08:00] finish.
It's really
**Poobah:** cool. Yeah. They put some thought into it, which I think is, is nice and it's not too, too
**Gizmo:** much. I'll tell you the burn is razor sharp. I mean, It's just as it's going, like, it's
**Poobah:** just perfect. And I like it when the brand name isn't the main focus and there's a piece of artwork on the band. I think that that's kind of cool, tasteful.
**Gizmo:** Preview's great right now. So the story of the Tabernacle, the artwork that you guys are talking about is an image of Haile Selassie, who is the 225th King of Abyssinia, now present day Ethiopia. His lineage traces directly to King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. Which is interesting. So that's who we're looking at on the band here.
It's made with one of the most sought after rapper leaves in the world, the Tabernacle Broadleaf Maduro, and he, as Nick Malino writes on their website, it's everything you look for in a premium cigar so far, I would agree. The cigar is patiently [00:09:00] aged with San Andres binder, as we discussed, and fillers from Estalia, Nicaragua.
And the Hamastron Valley in Honduras. So the filler, I made a mistake. It's not completely Nicaraguan. It's from Estalian Nicaragua and the Hamastron Valley in Honduras. The brand is named for the hallowed sanctuary. They say of Hebrew Hebrew scripture, the tabernacle, which housed the famous arc of the covenant before the building.
of the temple of Solomon. When you take
**Poobah:** a draw. Oh, I know what you mean. Look at the, hold it vertical. Dude. See all the smoke that's coming out of the cap. That's kind of cool. I, I just think that there's something crazy awesome. I've very rarely seen that where, look at it. It continues to smoke, to go.
There's smoke just emitting out of the cap continuously, burning vertically up through the cigar. There's.
**Gizmo:** That's crazy. Yeah. I've never seen that. When you open [00:10:00] a box that's
**Rooster:** like packed
**Gizmo:** in dry
**Bam Bam:** ice.
**Poobah:** Yeah. Are you guys looking at the cap of your cigar and seeing that? Yeah. It's like floating around like magically.
Look, look, look at that. Yeah. It's a good catch. It's kind of cool.
**Gizmo:** Right? Very. That's how open the draw is. Yeah,
**Poobah:** it is. I think that's a big time merit. And it's not loosely packed either when you feel
**Gizmo:** it. Yeah. Like it's dense. It's a densely packed lens.
**Poobah:** There's something going on. I think this construction is.
Pretty, pretty solid.
**Bam Bam:** Pagoda, this is right up your alley, man. Absolutely.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Man, I used to love the Toro. Mm hmm. And, uh, this is the first time I'm having the Lancer. Delicious,
**Bam Bam:** though. Yeah? Excellent. Yeah. Look at
**Poobah:** the reverse, this reverse chimney effect is something I've, have you guys seen? I mean, we've smoked a lot of cigars.
Is this? Hold on.
**Senator:** Sorry. I did spot something. Senator.
**Bam Bam:** You got something going on here. We have
**Senator:** a gizmo cut. Oh, we
**Gizmo:** do. With me? Pagoda with me. Oh, I just got nervous. I'm like, that's not a gizmo cut. [00:11:00] Straight across.
**Pagoda:** Wow. It's
**Gizmo:** a late Monday
**Poobah:** night. Pagoda shot today. He's so shot. Shot. I was looking at him before we recorded.
I said, yeah. It's a school night, man. Wow. He's literally, it's burnt like the cigar. He's burning at both ends. It's
**Gizmo:** No, it's not that bad, please.
This is really quite good. I'm shocked at how smooth the delivery of all these flavors is. And it's very rich. It's a
**Bam Bam:** rich
**Gizmo:** experience. Yeah. It's full full flavor. It is,
**Bam Bam:** but there's the infusion of that fruit note and the cocoa that you mentioned. It's really quite nice.
**Pagoda:** But it doesn't feel overwhelming at all.
**Bam Bam:** We need Garcon in the corner.
**Poobah:** Yeah. I didn't get any bourbon.
**Gizmo:** No bourbon for you. So this is the fourth foundation cigar we've done on the podcast. As I mentioned, we did the tabernacle Robusto [00:12:00] in Maduro on episode 43. Which is wild. That's 80 episodes ago. Almost. We did the L will Wednesday wise men in Toro Huaco on episode 95.
And we did the Olmec, which is a very popular line of theirs in Clairo in Robusto on episode one Oh six. So. This is the fourth cigar we've done from Nick Melillo's foundation cigars. And if you want to hear a little bit about the history, check out the recent, uh, the two recent episodes, the El Buense and the Olmec 106 respectively, where we did a little bit more of a deep dive on the history of Nick Melillo.
And of foundation cigars, but I don't know, boys, I am very, very happy that we have revisited this line because just from the light, just from the start, this is just fantastic. Yeah, let's see how it goes.
**Pagoda:** But, you know, having said that for new worlds, you know, the Lanceros seem to be performing really well.
That's nuts, right? We have so many [00:13:00] Lanceros in the new world, which have just been heading out of the park.
**Senator:** I think this has the best combustion of any Lancero I've
**Gizmo:** probably ever had. That's true. I agree. And, you know, we talk often about the Oliva V Land Cigar, which is just so delicious and priced at about half the cost of this.
The thing I find with that, though, is I often have to touch it up. The burn isn't as even as I'd like it to be. Delicious through and through, but I have to pay more attention when I smoke that cigar, so it does affect my judgment when I'm picking it up. This, so far, is just razor sharp, not even thinking about touching it.
It feels firmer when
**Pagoda:** you're holding
**Bam Bam:** it. I was about to go there. I think the wrapper on this is much more robust than the Dom Pepin Lancero, than my father Lancero, the Oliva, the Warped,
**Senator:** but also this is more densely packed than any of those cigars. It's true. There's a good amount
**Gizmo:** of tobacco.
**Poobah:** Right. But the interesting thing is that it is.
It seems densely packed, but not over packed, but the draw is like, incredible and [00:14:00] perfect. And I can tell right now, I don't anticipate many touch ups, unless something goes sideways.
**Bam Bam:** I want to see you smoke that down to a half inch
**Poobah:** poobah. Okay. All right. Yeah. You, you, you want challenge. You wanna see me gauntlet's
**Bam Bam:** thrown down.
You like that? Alright. Get, get a room. You two you like,
**Poobah:** you
**Bam Bam:** like that ba These are all BAM approved activities. ,
**Gizmo:** sir,
**Senator:** you like that? Bam. Doesn't discriminate. Correct?
**Bam Bam:** Um,
**Poobah:** if you talk about retro handling, this through the nose, um, does give you some bite. There's Nicaraguan tobacco in here and that's what it's going to do
**Gizmo:** often. It's a little bit more harsh through the nose than it is on the, you know, traditional draw.
**Bam Bam:** Can I tell you something though? I think that'll dissipate as you get into the cigar.
I think it'll get smoother in a retro hell.
**Poobah:** Yeah, I just did a mini. It's a little rough right now. It's a little harsh. Makes your eyes tear up, but I don't, that's not a, that's not a detriment to the cigar in [00:15:00] any way,
**Gizmo:** shape or form. Poop is getting
**Poobah:** emotional over there. What do you mean? Oh, because of the tears?
Yeah. Nice. I think we're going to tear through this thing. It could
**Bam Bam:** smoke quick
**Gizmo:** because of the draw. I think this is one of those cigars, boys, that you smoke it too fast. You're in trouble. I think it's going to bite you. Totally agree.
**Poobah:** You
**Gizmo:** think you could get bit, snake bit? I think so. Little, just a little like poop is doing the hand of the snake biting us.
I think it's absolutely ready to bite. It's like a VSG
**Rooster:** illusion on steroids. I
**Poobah:** think you're right.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, yeah. I feel like this is starting off smoother. Good call. I feel like this is starting off a little smoother. And isn't that Dominican tobacco? Yes. Yeah. Yes, it is.
**Poobah:** I think the VSG is much milder than this.
**Gizmo:** Oh yeah. That's what he said. On steroids. Yeah. So boys, I got to tell you, I have become obsessed with the new Netflix show Griselda. With Sofia Vergara. It's wonderful. Who
**Poobah:** has seen it? Put aside the fact that she's I have seen the first two episodes.
**Bam Bam:** [00:16:00] She's stunning. She's so hot. So it's hard not to like what she's doing.
**Gizmo:** Even with the prosthetics, I'm still in. The what? The prosthetics. They have a prosthetic nose on her to make her not as hot. Oh. Yeah. They did like a full makeup thing with their nose.
**Poobah:** Really good. I'm I'm in like, I fell asleep on the third. Cause I was like trying to stay up. Who's, who's looking
**Gizmo:** at the nose.
**Bam Bam:** I think Senator's skeptical,
**Senator:** but I have a totally different take. I can't even believe I'm hearing. Really? I think the other
**Rooster:** narco
**Gizmo:** series, I thought it was good. I was entertained. I had, I had
**Senator:** an extensive conversation with, um, one of our friends, lizard Henry about this. And I had started by saying. What are your thoughts on this show?
As soon as he said his thoughts, I said, okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one because the only reason I started watching this was because it spoke so highly of this. I just, it's not bad, but it's not a great show to me. It's like a very obvious, um, like there's a couple of episodes that are very good. And then [00:17:00] the rest, I'm like, it's just all right.
You know, it's, it was, it's been hard to keep my attention with that show. I also think like. You know, they make Sophia Vergara, I mean, how old is she? Uh, 53. Okay, so she's, you know, 50 plus. Like, I think they obviously must make her look even older. I don't think it's a great look for her in that show. Um,
**Gizmo:** Have you seen the real Griselda Blanco?
Well,
**Senator:** yeah, but that's my point. Like they're trying to make her look like that woman. So like, I don't think she looks particularly attractive in that show.
**Gizmo:** I think Danny DeVito could have been a better fit for the role.
**Poobah:** Well, I mean, it was entertaining. I only watched the first, maybe two. I haven't seen it.
But then it does say something though, that I didn't like gravitate back towards it. And it didn't like totally hook me where I'm like, I gotta go watch that again. But I liked
**Gizmo:** it. Yeah.
**Senator:** I have, I've had to
**Gizmo:** do it in doses. I'm happy. It's only six episodes, but I really. I think like it, I guess I've been kind of craving, I really liked the Pablo Escobar series on Netflix, which ran two seasons.
That [00:18:00] was great. That was great. Yeah. Much better. I know there were some issues with the, the dialect was a little off for, for, you know, native Spanish speakers in, in, in Columbia. But you know, same thing with this show that's happening with, with the Spanish speakers. But for six episodes. To kind of fill that gap.
I love drug Lord stuff. I think it's cool that this woman was like the only person that Pablo Escobar ever feared the show opens with that quote. That's the only man I ever feared was Griselda Blanco. And we
**Rooster:** said every only man I have, have always feared or something like that. Right. As a woman.
**Gizmo:** Right.
Griselda Blanco. Yeah. So what's your take on it? Rooster. Um, I also liked it,
**Rooster:** uh, but I thought the Pablo
**Gizmo:** Escobar series was, that was way better. Yeah. Yeah. But I,
**Rooster:** I mean, I like all the Narcos series. I like them. Even the
**Gizmo:** Mexico. See, I fell off Narcos Mexico. Oh, that was very good.
**Senator:** I thought. The first two seasons of the original Narcos were good.
It was
**Gizmo:** real. Yeah, that's true. I just got very tired. This is true. [00:19:00] It was
**Poobah:** real good. I, um, I will highly recommend, highly recommend a documentary. Uh, called American nightmare on, uh, this is an unbelievable true story. Um, about, and I won't give anything away if you must watch this, the fact that this actually happened in reality is so mind blowing that it's, it's just riveting.
So the, the, the, the basics of it is there's. A couple, they work together, they're engaged to be married. There's an ex, uh, the, the, the, the boyfriend, the male in the relationship, his ex works at the same physical therapy place that his new, [00:20:00] uh, significant other works at. They're living together. There's a, there is a kidnapping.
This is like a gone girl kind of thing. Kidnapping. Of without giving anything away,
**Gizmo:** I think you're no, no, no, no,
**Poobah:** but I mean, if you watch the preview, you, they, they tell you this, there's a kidnapping. Okay. And the woman, the woman, his fiance's kidnapped out of their apartment. Supposedly, or supposedly not, you'll see, and this thing goes into, there's a Harvard graduate
**Gizmo:** involved.
Oh, Senator's in. Okay. We don't know any of those.
**Poobah:** Okay. Now, and, and I'm just saying, this is the wildest true story of, well, there's incompetent police work like you wouldn't believe. No. You can't believe, it's unbelievable what, how this whole thing plays out. And I turned a couple people on to it, and not [00:21:00] one person came back and said I wasn't riveted.
Repeat it again. It's called American
**Gizmo:** Nightmare. What's it on? I'm gonna check it out.
**Senator:** It's like on their top 10 shows
**Gizmo:** right now. Is it a show? Is it a
**Poobah:** documentary? How many pieces? I think it's three to four maybe. Will I have
**Bam Bam:** nightmares when I go to
**Poobah:** bed? Um, no. It's not like that. All right. But it's not like horror.
I mean, it's. Disturbing that some of these things actually took place.
**Rooster:** Are there any animals coming out at night? BAM's
**Poobah:** concern. I mean, really, really highly recommended. I can't recommend it highly enough. I, I, I, I, I mean, I turned a couple of people at work. They said, dude, why did you do this to me? I was up like way too late.
**Gizmo:** Watching it. Yeah. I'm going to watch it because I finished Griselda. I thought it ended very, very well. So I'm looking for something new, but I'm really, I'm always into the, the, the drug ward stuff. I think that is just great television. Like big, big cooking guy. Yeah. You and a rooster. [00:22:00] Yeah. About Griselda.
With the cocaine cowboys. Correct. About Griselda. I mean, the ending is kind of sad. Yeah. The ending's a bummer. Like you
**Rooster:** have all of that, but you know, the end
**Gizmo:** is like inevitable.
**Senator:** So yeah. I wonder what's going to happen. I mean, it's very obvious. It's sad. It's, it's unfortunate. All I'm going to say is, is that you do need to redeem yourself after that TV recommendation.
You were a little too excited about Griselda. Well, I'm, it's, it's at best. Good. It's not a great show.
**Gizmo:** I think it's a great show. I enjoyed it.
**Poobah:** It's in, I'm, I'm in like two or three. It, it's good. It's good. And I, you know what I revisited recently, um, 'cause I was doing a lot of traveling and I needed to download, um, because shows, and I hadn't watched it in literally 20 years and everyone will agree 'cause it's so legendary Is the wire I started on, I, I started on season one and I like, yeah.
I was kind of like a little bit in panic mode because I'm like, I need something that's going to get me through, you know, flights and stuff like that on my iPad and I, um, I test drove it. I'm like, I'm going to watch [00:23:00] episode one and two or whatever before I left. I'm like, all right, uh, you know what? I don't remember a lot of this because it literally came out 20 years ago, more than that, maybe more than that.
Like 25. It's so relevant though. Like it's still
**Gizmo:** so good. It's sad how relevant it is. Yeah, it is. It
**Rooster:** is. Never, never got into that show. I
**Gizmo:** never really, never really watched it. It's a
**Poobah:** gift. I'm giving you a gift. It's like, it's really that good. I mean, it's, it's
**Gizmo:** so a lot of, you know, I've heard, and I believe this like, like a show like breaking bad, which I think is one of the greatest shows ever would not exist without the Sopranos, right.
Which is one of the greatest shows ever.
**Poobah:** Like I've literally heard. People like in TED talks talk about the feeling and relate like a feeling back to being like, it's like when you first discovered the wire and you watch the, like the first season of the wire, what that, like, it was really a revolutionary show.
And it's still so relevant today because all of the socioeconomic [00:24:00] issues. That are explored within the Baltimore, um, African American community and the conflict between the police and all of this tension and the corner boys. And, and, and, you know, we were talking about, it's all based around drug deals and, and, and, and, and murder and mayhem
**Bam Bam:** still exists in this day.
**Poobah:** This is the, these problems are, are, are these problems that you look back at their 20 years later, they haven't gone complete excavation of this. To your
**Senator:** point, when I was in college, there was literally a course taught based on The Wire. They actually had the actors come in. Wow. It was one of the most popular classes Harvard has ever had.
That's cool. And it's, I, like, ticketed to get in, like, through a lottery. Wow. I did not get a chance to attend the class. Yes. Wow. It's like a huge deal. Because
**Poobah:** the, because the five seasons is an excavation of It's like bigger than just a crime show. When you, when you, when you, the red thread, the narrative that goes through it is an excavation [00:25:00] of, of human interaction where you have the police.
And over time, the characters develop the relationship, these relationships where the police almost transformed from they're sympathizing with. The, the, the, the plight that these, the people that they're policing are going through and the, the internal battles between what the police have to do and what actually the community has to do to survive and, and, and they bring it kind of all together in, in a very, very comprehensive kind of examination of, of this dynamic, uh, between police and disenfranchised communities.
It's, so it paints a portrait, a picture that is very interesting when you just, when you look at it deeper is just entertainment. It was a really [00:26:00] brilliant, it's a really brilliant show.
**Gizmo:** It's amazing how relevant it is to what's happening today. Nothing's still very relevant
**Bam Bam:** in Baltimore.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, absolutely.
And around, you know, Chicago and other areas, but yeah, it's about cops and robbers and drugs pretty much. Yeah, that's not gonna change and the dynamic of the cops it's it's and I mean it's The acting is just so brilliant. The writing is great. The acting is great And then you know, what's terrible is one of the stars of the show Michael K Williams I forget what what character he played was it Omar?
**Poobah:** Well, yeah, Omar is, um, so he's one of the characters in the show who he, he's treacherous, but he's got a code almost like a Tony Soprano, but, but much more kind of not as not quite as complex. Was this on HBO? Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:00] Um, but he had a kind of code, you know, um, anyway, it's a very, very, very good to dive into.
**Gizmo:** Um, And seasons two, two, three, and four of that show, I think are some of the best television ever of the wire. Two,
**Poobah:** three, and four, four is out of all the seasons, probably maybe my, maybe my least favorite, but we don't have to get into all that. But, um,
**Gizmo:** great show. Great show though. Yeah. You should try it. I think it's five or six.
It's five or six seasons. Yeah. I think it's five. Five. Great
**Poobah:** show. Yeah, really. Just give it a try. I mean, most people have seen it, but if you
**Gizmo:** haven't. Yeah. It's available on max. And like Poobah said, if you have the service, you can actually download the episodes to your iPad or whatever. So you don't have to stream it.
You can actually pull them down at home and watch them on the plane. So boys, we're into the second third coming to the end of the first third here on the foundation tabernacle in Lansero. I got to tell you, this is Awesome. This is an awesome cigar. It's a very
**Bam Bam:** good [00:28:00] cigar. I think poop, um, rooster nailed it on the head.
It's a full flavored cigar and really smooth delivery. That's really quite enjoyable, right? No rough edges at all. I
**Pagoda:** found it to become a slightly earthy and salty, which I kind of enjoy along with the thing. It's been
**Gizmo:** fantastic. I do like the salt thing. I was getting that on the cold draw and I'm still getting it now.
**Bam Bam:** Try the retro hell now. It's a bit, it's better. I
**Senator:** mean, this to me, just the intensity of the flavor is like a great after dinner cigar. Oh yeah. Rich, concentrated breakfast for some, but
**Gizmo:** yeah, for some, I would smoke this on the breakfast too. How would you, right after a 90th in the morning, how would you compare this?
Mr. Macho over here. I don't mind a Boulder cigar in the morning because I'm not also smoking like six cigars while watching Macho
**Poobah:** Camacho. Um,
**Gizmo:** so I got a question for you. So comparing this to some of the other full cigars that you really [00:29:00] love, how would you describe the smooth delivery or how would you compare the smooth delivery of what we're having right now to some of the others?
Because I feel like even some Padrones don't have the smooth delivery that this does. Like they have a little bit more oomph to them. I, you
**Bam Bam:** know, I think I disagree with that statement for me, like the 90th. and the 50th and some of the other bolder, even the family reserve. They're as bold as this, but they're more complex and interesting.
And there's a bit more flavor for me personally. This is really quite nice. Those are different cigars for
**Senator:** me. But Giz isn't talking about the flavor profile. Giz is talking about the strength.
**Gizmo:** I
**Bam Bam:** think the strength. And the smoothness of it. Well, the strength is there. They're both pretty smooth. I think those are more
**Gizmo:** elegant cigars.
Have you had the 90th? The 90th is not a smooth cigar. It's not, I mean. I don't know. So that. I don't
**Rooster:** know. This is better than the 90th.
**Gizmo:** You think so?
**Bam Bam:** What?
**Gizmo:** Wow, that's a statement. I mean, so far. That's [00:30:00] very high praise. I mean. And that's an expensive cigar by the way. Oh sure. The 90th. 20 bucks. Oh, I thought it was 25.
It's like two and a half times this. True. You know, but what I'm curious about is like the way that you slot in full cigars into your rotation. You, you don't smoke as many cigars as we do on a daily basis. You smoke slower, you smoke less, but like, that's an
**Bam Bam:** accusation. He's getting old. It's all right.
That is a, that is an accusation. What's he talking
**Gizmo:** about, rooster? Am I wrong though? We're all getting old. Am I wrong? ? You smoke less cigars than we do. I do. I
**Rooster:** do. Yeah. So, I mean, sometimes I just smoke, like, you know, one or two a day.
**Gizmo:** So how does this, how does this. Hit your pallet versus some of the other really full cigars that you smoke.
**Rooster:** So I, so I think this, I mean, this is a full flavored cigar, but I don't think strength wise it's stronger than the 90th. I think the 90th is a stronger
**Gizmo:** cigar than this. Yeah. Um,
**Rooster:** but I can smoke this in the morning or in the afternoon or after [00:31:00] dinner. Anytime. Yeah, it won't be an issue because the 90th I think you'd want to smoke like more after a meal, whether it be a breakfast, lunch or dinner, but you need, you
**Gizmo:** need to eat
**Senator:** something.
I think you have the 90th on an empty stomach and you're going to fix it.
**Gizmo:** You're going to be, you're in trouble. Your head's going to be spinning.
**Bam Bam:** Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** I love this. Yeah. You know, I've always been fond of Tabernacle and it was my go to cigar for a very long time. So, uh, I'm just really enjoying
**Gizmo:** it. I'm in the zone.
This has a Nick
**Rooster:** Melillo DNA, you know, Liga
**Gizmo:** type. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** it's true. It's Liga esque. There's a lot to love here. Right?
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Yeah. The smoke output is great. It's very easy to smoke. Yeah. Um, construction's
**Gizmo:** great. I feel like this is more, I'm going to use a word that's going to probably throw you guys off, but I feel like this from Nick Melillo is a little bit more accessible to me.
Versus a Liga, meaning I feel like I'd be more comfortable handing this cigar to someone that's smoking [00:32:00] with me than I would some of those Liga cigars because I feel like a lot of the time those Liga cigars are just So rich and full and and the ring in your
**Bam Bam:** face the ring gauge matters, right when
**Gizmo:** it comes to sure I mean I like the Lancero in this quite a bit.
Yeah, it's awesome. Um, so far, I think I like it better than the Robusto, but it's half the price for Ligo. And it's half the price. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that the, the smooth delivery of these full flavors is accessible to anyone, especially after a. Uh, like a meal, like you said, I think someone like my father in law, who likes a mild cigar, who reaches for a mac and noodles sometimes, after a steak dinner, I think this would be right in his wheelhouse.
You think he could take the cigar? Absolutely. Really? Absolutely, I do. Hmm. I very much do, because I think this is something that, if someone handed this to me, At an early morning, like breakfast meeting or something and we're having a cigar. This, I, I could smoke this all day, like all day at any time.
**Senator:** So I'll say this.
I, I mean, [00:33:00] I enjoy full cigars, but for me, this is a nighttime cigar. I, I can't see myself. In the morning, I intentionally want a lighter cigar. Like I want a firmly medium cigar in the morning. I don't really ever wake up wanting to start my day with this amount of flavor. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this cigar.
It's just a lot. It's like a meal. Mm hmm. And so like, you know, I'm someone, I, I eat a light breakfast. I don't eat a heavy breakfast. I'm just not looking for a meal to start the day. You know, late afternoon, definitely into the evening, then I'm looking for something that packs as much flavor as this has.
**Gizmo:** But if you
**Rooster:** were, if you were going to have like a cigar, like after breakfast and one cigar after dinner, I think this would work after breakfast
**Poobah:** for me, for you, if you're having pancakes and bacon, you know, yeah,
**Gizmo:** bacon and, and
**Senator:** what do they call the diner when you get like everything? It's like eggs, pancakes, bacon,
**Gizmo:** like you need gravy on it.
Oh, the Grand
**Poobah:** Slam. The freaking Axe Master Special. It
**Bam Bam:** is the Grand Slam. [00:34:00] You get it all. The Denny's. Yeah.
**Poobah:** The Denny's. Oh yeah. And then smoke this and then pass out.
**Gizmo:** What do you think of the, uh, what do you think of the strength of the cigar and the delivery? I like it a
**Poobah:** lot. But it's, but, but the Senator's point, I mean, it's, uh, this is a nighttime cigar for me.
Agreed.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I can't believe, I can't believe I'm having such a different
**Poobah:** experience with that. I just tend to gravitate towards like medium bodied. So you'd
**Gizmo:** have this at lunch? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that this is really that full for me right now. Maybe my cigar is smoking very differently than yours, but
**Senator:** I'm not saying it's strength.
I just mean it's such a blast of flavor. It is. That I don't pursue that amount of flavor in a cigar early in my day. It's an after dinner
**Poobah:** cigar.
**Pagoda:** I'm not that discerning.
**Bam Bam:** I'm Rooster Scamp. Well, connoisseur corner is very discerning.
**Poobah:** You know, I'm having a QD in the morning.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, QD 50. Yeah,
**Poobah:** there we go. Yep.
Something like that.
[00:35:00] Something lighter, something more medium, but medium. A
**Senator:** D4 is as much flavor as I want in the morning, personally.
**Gizmo:** Do you reach for a D four in the morning? All the time. Really, really? Well, we're in Cuba. Even I, I let morning, so for the listener, we're talking about the party is D four from Cuba. That's
**Bam Bam:** when you're in Cuba.
One Senator's, we let our hair down. Oh, course for me, a D four is a lunchtime cigar. That's just me.
**Gizmo:** I agree with that. I don't think I've ever lunch, coffee. Oh, I don't think I've ever had a D
**Bam Bam:** four with coffee course. So lunch. A post lunch coffee with a D four for me is it's,
**Senator:** that's a great experience. I'm just gonna say if you have not done it yet, have a D four in the morning with coffee.
I think you will be
**Gizmo:** shocked. I'm sure. I'm sure. Might have to do
**Poobah:** that tomorrow. I'm more like in the morning I would have an up in, uh, which one? I'd have an up in half. Corona. Oh yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. That's nice. You know, Sumter or cutie 54 or, or 50? No. Yeah. QD 50 for sure. Sorry, Jared.
Yeah. QD 50. Coronas Claro. Oh yeah. You know, [00:36:00] something like that. Afternoon. You know, have brunch. Queue up, queue up a Bloody Mary and have like a, you know, have a, have a QD.
**Bam Bam:** 54.
**Poobah:** Any one of them. Yeah. Any one of them. Coronas Claro. Coronas Claro in the afternoon. Yeah. You know, something like that. Yep. Nice. You know.
I don't smoke like first thing in the morning and I gotta go into the, I gotta, you know, go into an office. We'll walk in. Hey, what's going on everybody?
How was your morning?
**Gizmo:** So Bam, I gotta tell you the retro hell on this. I'm not loving it. You're
**Bam Bam:** not. So for me, it's gotten much smoother and more palatable. I mean, it's easier now than it was
**Gizmo:** early on. It's very, very harsh for me. Well,
**Poobah:** I mean, I feel like on the retro, how Nicaraguan cigars don't lend itself as much to that there.
Cause they're so full flavored. Wow. A Corona square. It's a lot of [00:37:00] Nicaraguan tobaccos drones.
**Bam Bam:** I can retrohale those all
**Poobah:** day long. As can I, but they're, but, but they don't retro hair like, like what a, um, like a D4 does, or like a QD does, or the up and half crown, or an upman two does. I mean, you know, you smoke an aged upman too, and you blow it through your nose.
You're retro
**Bam Bam:** in that, every draw,
**Poobah:** no doubt. So like the, you know, the certain cigars lend themselves to that maybe
**Bam Bam:** a little
**Poobah:** bit more than others, you know, that's all.
**Rooster:** I think Cuban cigars in general are made to be retro hailed.
**Poobah:** Yeah, I agree with that. Yes, because they're mostly medium bodied, you know. And there's
**Rooster:** certain flavor notes that you will only get on the retro hailed.
It's true.
**Gizmo:** So with that being said, I got to tell you guys, I have had a real revelation. With the retrohale in the last two weeks I have so so we've talked about on the podcast and we've touched on on previous [00:38:00] episodes and bam is an evangelist like he's one of those guys that stands outside 7 eleven and hands out pamphlets about the retrohale retro I'm behind him I am too now I was I was a I was a Sometime retrohaler, and I enjoy the retrohale.
Now, question,
**Senator:** before you go into detail on this. Your revelation, was this kind of by accident you fell into this, or intentionally you were trying to fall
**Gizmo:** into this? It was intentional for the purpose of the podcast. Because I hadn't experienced the retrohale to the level that Bam had described and Grindr has described.
That's true. Really, really In some cases, Grindr has said, and I think you have too, bam, in saying that the, the retro hale's better than the actual draw of the cigar. And I was interested, predominantly it is, I was interested in that comment because obviously there's so much more sensory receptors in your nose than there are in your mouth.
So to experience, you know, [00:39:00] 200% more of, uh, of a flavor experience by, by combining the mouth and, and the nose in the Mm-Hmm, , the, the smoking is. Was really, really interesting to me. And I hadn't really done it to a level that I have found now. And the revelation for me has been that, and this was with a Cuban cigar, Cohiba Siglo 5.
I found how to retrohale. And I really, really pushed myself into it. And you've been doing it for a while. But not at the level I am now, where I'm pushing the entire draw out my nose. It was. Nearly orgasmic. And I hesitate to use that word. Go ahead, rooster. You can't use that word. I have a patent on it.
No, it was, it really was, it almost, I would argue it like put a Y in the road for me with my smoking experience. Sure. It was that dramatic of an experience, forcing myself to push the entire retro out my nose with, [00:40:00] with, with. A mild, medium Cuban cigar, I would say, 05. Changed everything about my smoking experience.
And I am chasing that high. Sure. Like You wouldn't
**Bam Bam:** imagine. So, you know, you capture for me, like all the dessert notes that you get in a lot of the up ins, it's amplified in the retrohale. And that's, I'm not going to use your word that you coined, but it's, um, it's, it's, it's a different experience. It's orgasmic.
Yeah, it is orgasmic. You know, you get those notes that you don't capture in a typical draw. Now, I'll be honest, I haven't, I learned how to retrohale maybe six years ago. I wasn't doing it when I first smoked cigars. I didn't know what a retrohale was. Did
**Gizmo:** ADF teach you that? He
**Bam Bam:** did not. I taught him. But I learned just accidentally as the smoke would go through my nose and I really enjoyed it and I just kept doing it and you perfect it
**Gizmo:** over years, you know.
So when I, when I've talked about the retrohale in the past, it's been maybe pushing 10 or 20 percent of the smoke out my [00:41:00] nose. The real experience was Holding the smoke in my mouth and pushing it all out of my nose and not allowing it to come out of my mouth at all. And that was The mechanics
**Bam Bam:** of that are tough.
It was challenging. So there's mechanics, so look, you can't do that, that specific mechanic, you can't do that on every, you can't do that on this cigar. No. Cause you'll, you'll burn your nose. You'll be crying. Yeah, you'll start tearing up. Yeah. Most of the cubans, like Poobah said, you can keep that smoke in your mouth and take the entire thing through your nose.
And it's really, it's a quite a different experience. Not in every
**Gizmo:** cigar though. And what it did for me on that Ciglo 5 I'm a full on Cohiba slut now, as we know. What it did for me on that Ciglo 5
**Poobah:** So
**Bam Bam:** gross. That's really so gross. Thank you, Poobah. Look at him. I wish I had a video camera in here. He's
**Gizmo:** disgusted with me.
Oh yeah, it's Just, you know. No, no, no. It, it, it poured a fork in the road for me. It, it was that dramatic. [00:42:00] does,
**Senator:** KMO keeps
**Gizmo:** holding why fucking, why chromosome is fucking .
**Poobah:** But if you remember, when he was in
**Bam Bam:** Cuba, he was greeting everybody like this,
**Gizmo:** it. No, I mean, I, I wish it for everybody in this room. Yeah.
Because I know some of the guys in this room don't retro hell or can't. Right. I wish it for every single listener to have that same experience that we're talking about. It was dramatically. Yeah. improving, and has since then, as I've figured out how to do it, it has changed my entire smoking habit. I agree with you.
Like, I wish for Senator that he could experience the retrohale, the full retrohale. Wait, where have
**Senator:** you been? I've told you. that I do, it's just never intentional. Like, Bam even just said he started by, it was unintentionally happening. It was unintentional. But it's not that I can't. No, it's just that I can't do it on command.
It just happens.
**Gizmo:** That's the mechanism is pushing a hundred percent of it out. So over time,
**Bam Bam:** yes. So over time it becomes a binary experience a little bit. It is. It becomes intentional because you're all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Because you've been
**Poobah:** doing [00:43:00] it for a long time, but what I'm saying is like, you're saying you gotta take, you put, push a hundred percent of it out of your nose with this cigar right now.
First of all,
**Gizmo:** you can't do that. Don't do it on this one.
**Bam Bam:** There
**Poobah:** you go. I just do that. Yeah, on the tail end. On the tail end. It's about 40, 40 percent. Yeah. I'm doing that all the time when I smoke cigars. That's true. Uh, if I can. I test it. Now that, now you've got this whole thing going on. Some cigars, so what I'm saying is, is like this notion of pushing 100 percent, you know, I'm going to push back on that recommendation to try and go for that all the time.
I disagree. On every cigar. I totally disagree.
**Gizmo:** On Cuban cigars? Push. Yeah, because lighter, like a Dominican, I did it on the Davidoff Bellicoso. Oh yeah. That through the nose, a hundred percent pushing it out the noses. So what it
**Bam Bam:** does, it gives you an opportunity to envelop yourself in a smoke completely.
It's really, it's different. It's a
**Poobah:** different zone. I'm just saying I do it all the time. I've done it a hundred percent. I mean, a hundred [00:44:00] percent, I think whatever you want to do is fine. Retro hailing is a good way to. You grab notes that you wouldn't normally get correct and you can kind of pick some stuff up and it's pleasurable to do, but I don't think there's any hard and fast rule about how you do it or how often
**Gizmo:** you do it.
All I'm telling the, all I'm telling you and the listener is that I have had a hundred percent all the time. No, no, no, no. Can you help me please? That's what he just said. That's literally what he said. I'm just repeating your words. Two of us are capable
**Bam Bam:** of listening here. It's just two minutes, not two minutes ago.
He said it's really based on a specific cigar.
**Gizmo:** It is. And I'm not doing it a hundred percent of the time. Right. I'm going to go keep a signal at five. No. What I'm saying is, is that when I'm, I'm not saying a hundred percent of the draw is pushing through my nose all the time saying that individual draw as opposed to pushing only 10 percent of that smoke through my nose.
It's a higher percentage. It's a, I'm just pushing more of the smoke through my nose than I was previously. And I thought it was a really. [00:45:00] Magical revelation.
**Bam Bam:** It's an accurate, that's an accurate statement. And I wish
**Gizmo:** it, I really wish it for you because you, you will have. It does take a dramatic
**Bam Bam:** change. You have to deliberately start doing it over and over and over.
And it eventually becomes part of your thing.
**Gizmo:** Well, they have a lot of doubters in the room here, Bam, but I'm telling you, we're very happy for you guys. I can tell, we are.
**Poobah:** I mean, I'm glad you finally discovered how to retro hail. It's, it's, I congratulate you on this, on this, on this
**Gizmo:** milestone. What do you mean?
I'm being nice. I've been retro hailing. But not to the degree that I am now.
**Senator:** And he's happy that you've reached that degree.
**Gizmo:** I'm happy you've reached that milestone. I don't like when you two sit next to each other. We gotta change the seating arrangements. Change the seating arrangements, please. Change the seating arrangements.
He hates that we listen. Am
**Poobah:** I crazy? I know
**Gizmo:** what you gotta do. Assign seating. Cut the mics. I'm gonna cut the mics. I would say
**Rooster:** give us banded CGLO 5s to do that. Correct. And then
**Gizmo:** teach us how to [00:46:00] retro. I would like
**Poobah:** that. You know what? Great idea. I
**Gizmo:** agree. That's a
**Senator:** fantastic idea. I have lots of good ideas.
Four of us are perfectly aligned on this.
**Bam Bam:** Excuse me. I want to see glow. No, no, no, no. He's very good.
**Gizmo:** Fuck. What is this lesson? I
**Poobah:** love you with all my heart, but you realize you've teed yourself up like a papaya for
**Gizmo:** this.
**Poobah:** It's unbelievable. It's right down the middle of the. Fairway. We'll,
**Gizmo:** we'll watch Griselda and
**Senator:** we'll stare at her
**Gizmo:** nose.
**Poobah:** She can retro hell with
**Gizmo:** that prosthetic prosthetic. Listen, I, I think it's a, it's, it's been a, it's been an important change in my journey. Yeah. I wanted to share that with the room. Not very receptive. And look, and you're just
**Poobah:** being hyperbolic, a little hyperbolic. That's just your [00:47:00]
**Senator:** usual definitive statement.
Yeah. I'm telling you,
**Bam Bam:** I like
**Pagoda:** papaya. He's just being a
**Senator:** papaya.
**Gizmo:** I'm telling you definitive statement. It has changed my smoking experience. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** And I think for the listener, those that retro hail probably are echo your sentiments. Yes.
**Poobah:** Listen, we can't get enough of the gizmo hyperbole. It's.
We love it. Bring it. Bring it.
**Gizmo:** Bring more. Oh God. All right. All right, boys. Let's talk about our pairing tonight. We have the Colonel E. H. Taylor small batch bourbon from Kentucky. This came very, very highly recommended by several listeners and we were very fortunate to get a bottle of it from our friend, our lizard friend in California, Oh, who hooked us up with this?
It's very hard to get, you know, it's one of those things that comes out in very limited quantity. Of course, the secondary market picks them up and then moves them to the, [00:48:00] you know, Facebook groups and whatnot and sells them at a high premium. But, um, you know, like a lot of Kentucky bourbon, this is, uh, this is one of the ones that, that people say you have to try.
Do we know how much that bottle is? Yeah, so I think normally pagoda, what did you see? How much this bottle was on the normal market? Around
**Pagoda:** 49 bucks. Wow. In total wine.
**Gizmo:** That is very affordable. So unfortunately, because it was secondary, you can't go to total wine and just grab it. Got it. Okay. Like you can, some of the other bourbons, it was closer to a hundred bucks.
I, wow. Okay. It was about double
**Poobah:** I, I, I, I can give some commentary if Yeah, please. Of course. I, it's very cinnamon forward. Do you guys get cinnamon taste? I think that's pretty damn accurate, man. Um, I, so like it would pair up with like a, I couldn't put my thumb on it, but that's accurate. D two or something like crazy.
It's got a lot of cinnamon front or D four. Yeah. Yeah. Or D four. And, um, I think that this is probably a more sophisticated [00:49:00] bourbon for a serious bourbon drinker. Then what I am to be able to maybe appreciate it fully. I'm not going to try and know, like, you know, I, it's hard for me to critique it because I, I don't, I don't drink enough bourbon on a regular basis to really good bourbon or rare bourbon to really give it, I mean, I like it, but I, it may be, I may be over my skis and like being able to appreciate this for what it is.
Because it's a little hot for me and sometimes with bourbon like on the finish I just haven't got there with my palate yet, you know to be able to appreciate this maybe for what it is So I'm not sure if I can give I like it But I mean, I think I need to more time with stuff like this to be able to fully
**Bam Bam:** appreciate So if I may I did I have to I added ice after I took my initial sips.
It was hot for me as well It's really quite nice with the ice. It opens it up, as you know, right? So it's, it's easier to drink. [00:50:00] I'll take some, but yeah, it'll really change the experience. I think you're dead on. This is a sophisticated bourbon for the sophisticated bourbon drinker. It's above my pay grade.
I'm not a bourbon guy. Um, but it really drinks, it drinks
**Gizmo:** quite nicely. So I'm drinking my neat. I think it's very good. Um, you're, you're very sophisticated. I know. I think it's very complex. I, I would assume for a bourbon drinker, someone who is drinking a lot of bourbon, and this is probably at the higher end of that complexity and what they, you know, what a, what a bourbon drinker finds interesting about the spirit.
For me, the comment I have is I don't love how this pairs with a cigar. I don't love how this is pairing with this cigar. And I are, I argue the point you guys just made about Cuban cigars. I think that this next to a D4 or a P2 or any Cuban cigar would be. Absolutely. Way too overpowering. Even with ice. I don't think it would pair well.
I kind
**Senator:** of agree. I think Poobah might've been saying something different. I think [00:51:00] the flavor notes in it would pair well, but the strength of this is what overpowers those
**Gizmo:** cigars.
**Poobah:** So when I think about a spirit like this, you know, what comes to mind is it's I I'm appreciating it for what it is. And it's almost like when I, I'm going to try and draw a parallel here.
Like when I first, Started when I first started drinking Campari or Negronis or drinks with with Campari in it or Aperol. It's an acquired taste. Where, you know, someone says, you got to try this. It's, it's, it's really good. Give it a try. And when you first kind of like put it to your, to your lips and you drink it, you kind of, you're like, how can this possibly be good?
Like, like, you're like, what the, you know, you gotta, you gotta eat, right. Maybe it's the first time you like, maybe the first time you eat caviar or something, you could be off putting, but it takes, I think it may take a second for like, it's not [00:52:00] an, it's an, I think it's an acquired taste, some of these high end bourbons.
And there's something there that I just haven't been able to get there, where I think I can fully appreciate it for what it is, and maybe that means I need to try more, drink more of it. Um, maybe I'm not drinking it the right way. I don't know, but, but, um, I just don't have enough experience with it really to have the kind of acquired taste that I think is necessary to be able to even critique it for what
**Bam Bam:** it is.
I think your statements are very accurate, because as I said earlier, this does drink like a very complex spirit, very complex. Not a novice bourbon for sure.
**Gizmo:** No. I, I do think it is complex and I, again, I go back to my, my thought. I think everything you said is accurate. Uh, to me, this is just not a spirit that I'm interested in pairing with cigars.
You know, I, I just don't think that it, it's, it's kind of dancing with the cigar. I think it's, it's almost opposite of what I'm looking for in a spirit here. And I don't think it's a bad bourbon. [00:53:00] I'm not going to rate it. Great points. I kind of agree with you. It's not with it. Yeah. Is it too bold or? It's pretty
**Senator:** bold.
Yeah. I mean, I think so. That's why I just picked up the bottle. It's a
**Gizmo:** hundred proof. Yeah. But the cigar is kind of full
**Rooster:** strength. I mean, full
**Gizmo:** flavored, but this is so
**Bam Bam:** unique. And the cinnamon forwardness of it is really, it's
**Gizmo:** surprising. It almost takes over my palate. When I, when I do a draw of the cigar.
And I sipped the bourbon. It's almost like the bourbon does a complete palate cleanse.
**Bam Bam:** I have a question. So Pagoda, Senator and Poobah put ice in their drinks. What do you guys think of it after
**Poobah:** ice? It's smoothed out. You know, it takes a little of the edge off for the novice. Kind of the, the unexperienced bourbon drinker.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Pagoda:** I think I'm closer to what Giz says. There's something slightly different, because in a lot of the bourbons, or you know, how we've compared them in certain rums, which are vanilla forward and so on and so forth, you know, towards the end, towards the finish, you find that little bit of the sweet notes, which come towards the end of the [00:54:00] finish.
Mm hmm. And this, I don't know, I'm not getting that. Maybe it's just still a bit hot. I kind of,
**Bam Bam:** I disagree with that too, because I do get a sweetness in this. I do too. Right in the middle.
**Pagoda:** But not, not in the
**Bam Bam:** end towards the finish. No, the finish for me is kind of a little dry, which to me drinks complex. I like that.
**Gizmo:** I, I guess maybe the way I would say it is I wish it was just a little bit more simple to pair with my cigar. Yeah. Because I, I'm not looking in our exercise here. On this podcast, when we smoke cigars together, I'm looking for the cigar to be the star of the show. I'm not looking and this is a great star of the show.
This is not something that's needing help, you know, from a from because it's lackluster, needing a better pairing. This is a great cigar, and I feel like it's being overwhelmed. If you remember the Widow
**Bam Bam:** Jane 10 that we had, that was very complementary to the cigar that we had
**Poobah:** then. Sure. The Four Roses, um And that too, yeah.
Small Bachelorette. small batch select. I really enjoyed, um, I enjoyed it a little bit more than this. And they're probably bourbon drinkers that are saying you're nuts. You're a lunatic. I enjoyed that as well. [00:55:00] Um, but again, I'm not, I think that this is a territory that requires more exploration and I think you gotta acquire a taste for this stuff because people love it.
Um,
**Senator:** so my take is very simply the strength of this spirit is the issue that is fighting with the cigar. I don't think that it is driven as much by the flavor profile. And I say that because again, I'm not a huge bourbon guy, but I know some guys that are really deep in the bourbon rabbit, uh, bourbon rabbit hole.
And I've tried some amazing bourbons through some like rare bottles of Willett and Pappy and all that kind of stuff. And I think like there are bottles of Willett that I've had that are super full flavored, but that are delivered smoother than this is that I think actually would pair great with this cigar.
I just think there's a lot of heat that comes out of this. That is what makes it a little bit harder to enjoy alongside most
**Gizmo:** cigars. So [00:56:00] the one thing that's interesting to me about this is that when we had the Weller, the special reserve, which is the green bottle. I don't remember what the proof on that was.
I think it was around 50 or slightly under. It has to be under 50. I think it was right under that. Special Reserve, I thought that was one of the best cigar pairing bourbons we've ever done. I think it very much rivaled the Small Batch Select. I think it beat it even for me. Very easy to drink. I've been loving it.
I've been drinking it. You know, I either go for that, Balvenie, or Havana club seven when I'm pairing a spirit, my cigars right now in kind of my normal rotation. The other thing I'll say though, and we're going to do this on an upcoming episode is the Weller 109, which is the, the higher end version of it, the red label, I think is almost 54 proof.
Uh, excuse me, 54%, like 108 proof. I think that doesn't drink as hot as this. And I think it very much pairs better with cigars for me. Not saying it's a better bourbon. I have and I've loved it really. And I've drank it. I've had it neat. [00:57:00] Wow. You know, without ice with that proof with that proof. So that's where I'm not pushing back on your argument.
Senator. No,
**Senator:** I think you're making my point. Like my point is simply this drinks too hot. So it doesn't matter
**Gizmo:** if the regardless of the number
**Senator:** percent or 54%. It's that this drinks hotter. Correct. Then even other higher proof bourbons. And I think that's
**Gizmo:** why it's clashing. Yeah, right. And so we're saying the same thing,
**Poobah:** but the other side of the coin is, is that in that world of bourbon, like that may be a merit in the spirit that we just don't appreciate as much, you know, or maybe, maybe, you know, it pairs well with, with the cigar for others.
I'm just saying. Uh, yeah, for me, it's, I'm not there yet in my journey with these bourbons to be able to appreciate something like this for what it is.
**Bam Bam:** But Giz, you have
**Gizmo:** yet to put a chip of ice in your drink. I have not. I'm sticking neat because, because I don't feel that the chip of ice is going to change my perception with the cigar.
I don't know if heat is the [00:58:00] word that's, that is bothering me. It's just very, very full
**Bam Bam:** flavor. That's an accurate word. That's an accurate description though. It is hot. It's a bit hot.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. All right. So what do we know about Colonel E. H. Taylor bourbon?
**Senator:** So, uh, just a fascinating history because I think any bourbon drinker knows this guy is really
**Gizmo:** revered.
He's like the god, right? Of bourbon. He's
**Senator:** the god of bourbon. Very, very respected. Um. He's a
**Gizmo:** colonel. I mean, honestly. That's
**Senator:** right. That's right. Um, so Colonel Edmund Haynes Taylor, Jr. That's his full name. Um, he was born in Columbus, Kentucky in 1832. He's, fun fact, a descendant of two U. S. presidents, a descendant of James Madison and Zachary Taylor.
Some
**Gizmo:** of the, two of the best. They should be on Mount Rushmore if you ask me.
**Bam Bam:** Did they smoke cigars though? That's the question.
**Senator:** He worked as a banker and local politician in Frankfort, Kentucky. He was actually the city's mayor for 16 years. And, um, him being a banker in that background is kind of how he found his way into the bourbon [00:59:00] business.
So, he started by financing local distilleries around Frankfort, and that's where he got his start. In 1869, he bought his own distillery, uh, purchasing the Leestown distillery and the Carlisle distillery. The following year, he renamed that distillery old fashioned copper OFC. Um, although there's like debate if that was the name or some say it was old fire copper.
Uh, in 1878, he got in some financial trouble, so he sold the distillery to a guy, George T. Staggs, who then hired E. H. Taylor, um, to run the distillery, which he then renamed after himself, it became the Staggs Distillery, um, and the Staggs Distillery is what would eventually become arguably the most famous distillery in Kentucky period, the Buffalo Trace Distillery in 1992.
Wow. Wow. So that's, there's like a whole kind of run up to what became what we now know as like the bourbon making capital basically, which is that Buffalo Trace Distillery. Robust [01:00:00] lineage there. Um, the whole colonel thing. So like, you know, he was not in the military or there's no like, you know, any kind of legitimacy to that title other than.
Kentucky, the state's governor, um, can give an honorary title of a Kentucky Colonel, and that's let Colonel
**Gizmo:** Sanders. That's right. Right. Colonel Sand. Wow.
**Poobah:** Or like Elvis. Elvis is the guy, the manager of
**Gizmo:** the Colonel . That's right. So we should go to Kentucky and become colonels. I want some fried chicken now.
Colonel. Bam. . Colonel. Bam. It's got a ring. It does. Colonel bam, cb. I don't know if
**Bam Bam:** I like you guys. .
**Gizmo:** I'm complimenting you. All right.
**Senator:** So E. H. Taylor worked at the George Staggs Distillery for a bunch of years, rebuilt his finances, and then he built a new distillery from the ground up on Glens Creek in Millville, which is south of Frankfort.
Um, the Old Taylor Castle Distillery was called open in 1887, and what was really cool about this [01:01:00] distillery is it kind of paved the way for, I mean, now you go to Kentucky, And it's like built for bourbon tourism, right? You can go to like all these distilleries. Some of them are really nice kind of decked out.
And he built the first, a lot of those distilleries, then they just look like old factories. There was nothing really that interesting to see. The distillery he built there, uh, resembled a medieval European castle. And so, uh, he even built a train station, uh, infrastructure for cars to allow visitors to easily kind of drive through and see the whole thing.
And, um, that kind of paved the way for bourbon tourism, which obviously all these years later is huge in Kentucky. The guy's most famous for his innovation in the business. Some of this, I don't understand, but I'll just run through some of it. A lot of the real BAM and I are here. Go ahead. All right. BAM can explain.
**Bam Bam:** I really don't like you.
**Gizmo:** Retro hail guys.
**Senator:** So some of the big innovations that he's credited with, um, copper fermentation, tanks [01:02:00] still designed the, uh, sour mash technique improvements and steam heated cycled rack houses. No idea what that last thing means. Um, but. He's most famous. Uh, one of the things he's most famous for is actually his political lobbying, uh, to ensure the new bottled in bond act that was passed in 1897, which I think is you had mentioned right on the bottle.
It really emphasized the whole bottled in bond
**Gizmo:** thing. Yeah. And that was a big thing. Just not to interrupt. One of the big things about Lizard O sending us this specific bottle was our previous commentary about the heat of bourbon. Yeah. He said that you guys should start trying bottled and bond bourbons because I guess it's a little bit more I don't know if the word is regulated or driven to so there's a distinct
**Bam Bam:** line of bourbons that
**Gizmo:** are So pagoda, can you
**Senator:** talk a little bit about
**Gizmo:** this
**Pagoda:** thing?
Sure, you know, uh, you know, I'd like to read something verbatim. I think it kind of is articulated really well [01:03:00] So it says the bottle and bond designation is steeped in more than a century of American distilling heritage. It arguably holds spirits to a standard higher than most scotch and more scrupulous than cognac's designation.
Wow. Really? I, I, I had no idea about this.
**Gizmo:** That's really interesting. And,
**Pagoda:** uh, just to add to that, so the Bottleton Bond designation mandates That the brands clear numerous rigorous hurdles. The spirit must be aged for at least four years and bottled at precisely hundred proof. Which, uh,
**Gizmo:** exactly what this interesting a bottle is, and I think that's why Lizard O said that is I think the age component of the bottled in bond designation was something that.
Oh, was saying, Hey, this is going to align a little better with your palates. And it's probably to what Poobah was saying about kind of getting us a little bit more in the bourbon world and being more familiar with bourbon. That's what he was saying. The age [01:04:00] component of this, which to your point, you can go to four plus years.
He was saying that that's going to be
**Bam Bam:** helpful. This does is, this does get us out of our comfort zone because as Poobah said, it's, it's an acquired taste for us.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Pagoda:** And, um, it says, uh, that it must be made by one distiller at a single distillery in one season and then aged in a bonded warehouse. And because it needs to be aged in a bonded warehouse, it is, uh, unique, they say it's a unique expression of location.
So you kind of get a sense of place. So it's, it's interesting in terms of the overall, you know, the way they go about, uh, um, at least trying to make it. better for the consumer to understand what they're actually
**Gizmo:** receiving. And it's so interesting because when I think of bourbon, or Kentucky bourbon, I kind of feel like it's like the wild, wild west of spirits.
Like it's, it's, you know, prohibition, all the, the various different types of [01:05:00] proof and different types of ingredients and different types of makers and the different things that happen in American whiskey. It's almost, it's like, It's a more regulated, like, here's the line you need to tow, do your best with it.
Right. Which is interesting. Yeah. And I think
**Pagoda:** this might have been driven by the Kentucky guys, because it says, um, what had happened was, uh, there were many whiskeys which were being made elsewhere. Which we're not holding on to wild west.
**Senator:** Yes, that's interesting. Exactly. Like counterfeiting was a huge problem.
And so this was meant to be like a more rigorous standard so that people could be a lot more confident in the authenticity of what they were getting.
**Gizmo:** I feel like Habanos should do bottled, like rolled in bond. Oh boy. Cigars. To verify authenticity. What do you guys think? What do you think, Poobah? Because
**Poobah:** regulation is so tight.
Oh, Cuba, yeah.
**Gizmo:** Rolled in Bond.
**Senator:** So you mentioned Prohibition. Just a [01:06:00] little bit more about the Taylor Distillery. So the Taylor distillery had to close down operations in the lead up to prohibition. And when prohibition happened, they were not one of the six distilleries permitted to sell medicinal spirits during that 13 year period.
So they had a really rough go at it, right? A lot of the other big distilleries. At least found ways to still continue producing and actually moving some
**Gizmo:** product. Sounds like they didn't pay somebody off enough. Yeah.
**Senator:** After Prohibition ended, national distillers purchased the old Taylor distillery in 1935 and all of their inventory of age whiskeys.
They dramatically increased production at the distillery, um, to try to meet demand. The problem was then in the 1970s, fast forward, when bourbon actually started to fall out of favor. Vodka, rum, gin, and other spirits were really growing a lot at that time. Uh, National Distillers stopped production and closed the old Taylor Distillery.
The property became abandoned, and for basically 40 years, nothing happened there. The property just totally deteriorated. Really? [01:07:00] Wow. So, What year was that? This was in the 70s. Wow. And then, it went through all this time of just no activity. And so in 1987, Jim Beam actually bought the, uh, the Taylor Distillery.
And then finally, Uh, Buffalo trace purchased the old Taylor bourbon brand in 2009 and has managed it ever since then. So if you fast forward to now, since 2011, um, Sazerac, which actually, uh, Sazerac company based in new Orleans is the parent company that owns Buffalo trace, they produce. Uh, bourbon under the E.
H. Taylor brand at the Buffalo Trace Distillery. So that's where this came from. This is from the
**Gizmo:** Buffalo Trace Distillery. It's amazing to me. We're talking, what, 175 years of history, right? And, and really, it's only been resurrected in the last 20 years? Yeah. And has become something that's so chased after, so sought after by these bourbon drinkers.
Like, [01:08:00] it's, it's just amazing how the bourbon community has like, Really rallied in a way, maybe unlike any other spirit. I mean, you could argue, argue tequila and vodka have had a resurgence because of the celebrity thing. But there's no celebrity attachment to Colonel E. H. Taylor. You know, bourbon that was founded in, around the Civil War.
That has been resurrected in 2009.
**Poobah:** Right. Yeah, there's, there's two, it's, it's so regionalized. And it's, I, and I think it's, I feel like It may be easier to make tequila, um, using, using a diffuser. You know, and, and, and
**Gizmo:** doing the, doing that whole
**Poobah:** thing. Yeah. Um, then it is to kind of make particularly this, this, uh, this bonded process and these standards.
Um, and certainly to be called the Kentucky bourbon, you have to meet some standards there too. So, [01:09:00] uh,
**Bam Bam:** I kind of like this standard. That you have to adhere to and pursuing a bonded process bourbon. This bottle, I mean, just from the visuals, the, the, the labeling is beautiful. It's highly articulated, the cask that it came in, the flask, beautiful bottle.
Yeah. Um, the
**Gizmo:** presentation is gorgeous. What I love too is on the actual, so it comes in, you know, a, a, a traditional size bottle with a very cool label and the label is actually raised all the, the text is raised on it, but it comes in an outer cylinder. Container, and it has what I guess is some of the early markings of Colonel E.
H. Taylor branding on it. It's really quite beautiful. Like, it says that it's not accidental, that the supremacy in bourbon is fundamental because of these reasons. Pure limestone water. Selected grain, model equipment, skilled manufacturer, perfect distillation, splendid cooperage, natural maturation, ideal glassing, [01:10:00] comprehensive sanitation.
That's amazing. That's some like 1800s
**Bam Bam:** markings, you know? Yeah, and if you're a bourbon purist, you're gonna pursue this type of a spirit. I think it's really quite nice.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I mean, I definitely respect it. And I love the history you've laid out with this. Yeah, it's awesome.
**Senator:** The only other thing I would add is just about the actual spirit itself.
Um, so bourbons are kind of defined by their mash bill. The ingredients basically that they use to make the bourbon. And all of the core expressions of E. H. Taylor use Buffalo Trace's mash bill number one, which is the same mash bill. So first of all, the mash bill number one, it's a bill of corn, rye, and malted barley with a low rye percentage.
And I think we were talking about how some of the bourbons that we Enjoy, including, um, Weller is lower on the usage of rye. And so mash bill number one is used to make Buffalo trace Eagle rare and George stag. Wow. Um, so those bourbons should drink similar in [01:11:00] flavor profile to this.
**Bam Bam:** Interesting. Lots of respect here.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it's, it's, it's a whole community. Um, a bourbon folks that they just, they're obsessed, you know, um, it's a whole rabbit hole. You can go down.
**Senator:** Wow. You look at some of the expressions they have. So obviously we're, we're having the, the each Taylor small batch. That's correct. Right. This is a small batch.
Correct. So the small batch is kind of there. It seems entry level. They have then the single barrel, which is the same mash bill, but each barrel is hand picked. Also 50 percent alcohol, a hundred proof. They have a barrel proof one that is unfiltered at more than 125 proof. Wow. You can imagine that.
**Bam Bam:** That'll put hair on your palm. Night, night.
**Gizmo:** I'm going to smoke it
**Pagoda:** with the 90th
**Bam Bam:** at 7 a. m.
**Gizmo:** We're going to do that tomorrow morning, boys, that roosters
**Senator:** deck. And then [01:12:00] they've got some cool, um, more aid statement type stuff. That's aged for much longer than four years. They have the each Taylor four grain that's matured for 12 years.
They have an each Taylor 18 year marriage. They call it, uh, with 18 years of age. So they've got some pretty. Pretty crazy stuff. Forgive me, dude, is
**Bam Bam:** there an age statement on
**Gizmo:** this bottle? Well, it's bottled in bond, so it's at least four years. At least four years. So that's why Lizard O was saying this bottle That's, that's awesome.
It's a great standard to pursue. It aligns with how we feel about a lot of the spirits we pair in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We chase stuff that has some sort of age statement on it, which seems to work very well with our cigars. Lizard O, this
**Bam Bam:** is a solid
**Gizmo:** recommend. Yeah, it's a really good bourbon. I just don't know if I love it with cigars.
Yeah, yeah, agreed. So we got sent by Lizard, uh, Lizard Bill sent us, and I sent this to the chat a little while ago, the ultimate bourbon flavor map, which kind of sets up a quadrant of, of flavor based on, uh, [01:13:00] delicacy, spiciness, richness, and sweetness. And it feels like we're in the bottom right hand corner of what we've been appreciating, which is why This, uh, E.
H. Taylor has come up tonight in between rich and sweet, which includes Bourbons like Mictors, Eagle Rare, uh, Angels Envy, E. H. Taylor, We're Drinking Tonight, Woodford Reserve, Makers Mark, and, uh, And, and Weller. So all of those are listed in that quadrant, uh, between rich and sweet that I think that's kind of in the profile of what we've appreciated on the podcast so far with cigars, you know, right above that between spicy and rich or, or things like old Forrester, which we didn't really love when we did that on the pod, Elijah Craig, knob Creek, wild Turkey and bullet.
And then the other one that's interesting too, is the quadrant that, that kind of focuses on delicacy and spiciness. Basil Hayden's, [01:14:00] Four Roses, which is an interesting call out because Poobah said that about the small batch select, Evan Williams, Jim, uh, and Jim Beam. So, you know, it's, it's interesting to see where we kind of land.
In this quadrant of, of flavors, visualize a map as you're describing. That's exactly what it is. That's really cool. It's cool. Right. Worth publishing. Yeah. So maybe I'll put that on the Instagram when we put this episode out. Very cool. Um, to kind of give listeners an idea maybe, and it aligns kind of like with our ratings aligns with the, with our, with the palette, you know?
So boys, we're into the last third here. On the foundation, the tabernacle in Lancero. What's everybody thinking? I've been enjoying
**Pagoda:** this right till the
**Gizmo:** end. Yeah, this is a great cigar. Excellent cigar.
**Pagoda:** It also fits in my flavor profile. I love it. There's history with it. So, uh, this has been fantastic.
**Senator:** I think the flavor profile is very consistent.
I, I, nothing has changed for me. It's true. It's kind of the same flavor profile all the way through. Um, and I think what's encouraging is in the last third, especially at this price [01:15:00] point is that it's maintained that flavor hasn't really lost anything. Um, and I'm still enjoying it. Yeah. The
**Pagoda:** smoke up. It's been fantastic.
Oh
**Gizmo:** yeah. The combustion combustion. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I have nothing, nothing, haven't had to really touch it up and great combustion. Uh, construction's good. It's a full flavored cigar. Certainly. Um, I'm, I'm enjoying it.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I
**Rooster:** actually
**Gizmo:** get some coffee now. I agree. Oh, I got it. I'm getting it now. And it's funny.
When you
**Rooster:** guys were talking about the bourbon, I think somebody, maybe Poobah mentioned cinnamon. Yeah. Right. At that point, I actually got some faint cinnamon out of
**Gizmo:** this. So
**Bam Bam:** this does smoke a lot. There's a lot of dessert notes here that I'm getting at this point, but two inches down, it's really, it's delicious.
It's delicious.
**Gizmo:** No complaints at all. For me, I, I, I have to say, I think this is another home run Lancero. It's a revelation, right? I mean, we're talking [01:16:00] around a 10 price point. Yeah. I'm sure if you're buying boxes, I, I only bought like in two fivers for the podcast. If you're buying boxes of these, you find a deal, you know, at Labor Day, Memorial Day, whatever it is.
Pretty, uh, readily. Yeah, you can find these at any time. Yeah. Yeah. I've never had a problem finding anything from Foundation. Are you sure that this
**Senator:** Lancero, that that's the case for? Because Lancero's been harder to find usually. That particular Vitola. I kind of think he's right. In the Tabernacle
**Bam Bam:** line on that.
Although EDL's procurement prowess knows no bounds. He's
**Senator:** even, he's
**Gizmo:** even had a hard time finding. Is that right? I had no problem getting them and it wasn't like any sort of, you know, favor or anything like we've done in the past. We needed a cigar. Like I just, I think I went on Atlantic or, or one of those sites and just picked up two fibers and I had them in two days.
It's cool. You know, it, it wasn't difficult to find. Like I didn't have to force it at all. Like I have on some of the other, like the Andalusian bull we recently did. That was like, you know, [01:17:00] thank God we had Kenny. Until, until this pot comes out. Yeah. Then it'll be gone. Yeah. Really good smoke. Yep. So I had a relevant, uh, listener email come in for us boys from our friend lizard lake, and he, uh, he put the subject is Nick Melillo.
And he said, uh, it's a good listen for the tabernacle Lancero. And he said, uh, Lizard Giz thought I'd recommend the Boveda interview with Nick Melillo ahead of your Tabernacle Lancero episode. He's a fascinating guy. And the episode from Boveda has a lot of great background to discuss when smoking anything from foundation.
Uh, enjoying your pot as always, few things in life are as consistent for me, but the Tuesday episode drop. is always exciting. Oh yeah. Thank you for all the work you and the guys put in for consistent content. Hopefully someday you guys can get Nick in for an interview with the lizards. Yeah. Thanks.
Lizard Lake. I think that would be
**Bam Bam:** amazing. Yeah. It would
**Gizmo:** be cool. [01:18:00]
**Senator:** We've enjoyed enough of the cigars at
**Gizmo:** this point. And I think that, you know, we're going to PCA in a few weeks, right? So You know, when you're at a PCA, it's like, Nick is a guy that I would love to even get him to come to our house, set up the mics, and do a legit interview, you know, that'd be, uh, that'd be the move.
Now you're talking. Now we're talking. He's a, he's a young guy, right? Yeah. Yeah, he's very young. How old is he? In his 40s? Yeah,
**Pagoda:** he, he probably is in his late thirties, early forties. All right.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's like my age. And so, so we can call Nick Abuelo.
**Bam Bam:** Rooster, you are young in spirit and I'm right. I'm following your footsteps, my man. Thanks, man. He sarcastically says that.
**Gizmo:** Pagoda, you've met Nick and you've spoken to him a few times, right? You've spoken very highly of him.
**Pagoda:** Um, you know, so, uh, I was the NAD chairman and he was hosting an event over there, and, uh, you tend to meet a lot of, uh, you know, these, [01:19:00] uh, producers of cigars, you know, when they're, uh, marketing some particular cigar.
Uh, what was great about Nick was he's so warm and easy to talk to, um, he's one of the guys you can just go, start up a conversation, and he's hanging out over there, smoking a cigar, and just having a chat. Um, And very, very open. You know, some people are very restrictive in the way they communicate. He's very open, very relaxed, and I think it'd be great if we can get him on the pod.
It'll be a very enjoyable, very enjoyable
**Gizmo:** experience. All right, you guys ready to move into the uh, ratings tonight? Sure. Let's do it. All right, let's do the formal liquor rating on the Colonel E. H. Taylor's Small Batch Bourbon. Bam Bam, you're up. You
**Poobah:** know, I
**Bam Bam:** got, I'm very impressed with the, the, the historic analysis that, Pagoda and Senator put forth.
I'm, it's just very impressive. The spirit is tough as far as the, the pairing with the [01:20:00] cigar, with any cigar. I kind of echo your sentiments, Giz. It did, I have to, I'm kind of at, I'm between a seven and an eight, but I'm at an eight here. I think it drank okay. The cinnamon for it was enjoyable. It's an impressive, it's an impressive spirit, and I like the standard that they're holding.
I'm at an eight.
**Gizmo:** Okay, Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** I'm at a seven. I, you know, for me, I thought it was a bit too, uh, hot for me. Even after putting the ice cubes, um, I still felt a bit, um, you know, bit of the heat back in my throat and into my chest. And, uh, that's something I really just don't enjoy. Uh, but I'm not a very, uh, you know, I have a bourbon drinker per se.
And neither am I. Yeah. So,
**Senator:** um. But an avid Manhattan drinker.
**Gizmo:** Correct. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** I can mix it up and make a good cocktail
**Bam Bam:** out of this. You can mix like no one
**Gizmo:** else. This is a little expensive and rare. No, it is. And aged.
**Pagoda:** And aged. That sounds like an ALR. I love it.
**Bam Bam:** [01:21:00] But
**Pagoda:** yeah, uh, yeah, it's a seven for me.
**Gizmo:** Senator.
**Senator:** So, I'm in lockstep with Pagoda on this, and I think, you know, when we're rating these, we're rating how this pairs with a cigar.
And so, I think I can see and appreciate why for someone who just wants to drink a really full flavored bourbon after a long day, why they may reach for a bottle like this. I think for our purposes, to pair this with a cigar in a way that's going to complement it. And in no way detract from that experience, um, I agree with what Giz was saying earlier that, you know, these, it, it can clash with many cigars.
And so for that reason, agreed, agreed. And so for that reason, I'm at a seven in that I don't think it's a bad bourbon by any stretch. I just think that it's not an ideal bourbon that I would reach for to pair with a cigar. And also the flavor profile for me. I mean, the cinnamon note is, is so pronounced [01:22:00] that I think what's, what's funny to me is for something with a mash bill, it's supposed to be lower on the, the, the use of rye.
Um, There's a spiciness to it that comes from that cinnamon note that we're getting, which is not something that I personally pursue in what I want from a bourbon or a whiskey, um, as much as this is present here. And so, um, for me, you know, would I drink it again without a cigar? Yes. Will I pursue it again with a cigar?
No. And so I'm at a seven, a soft recommend.
**Gizmo:** So for me, it's also a seven. I think I've laid out very clearly how I feel about the bourbon. I thought it was. delicious. But I think in the interest of what we do here to both of your points, Senator and Pagoda and BAM, it just doesn't pair well for me with cigars.
It's almost like I've put a piece of cinnamon extra gum in my mouth, and I'm chewing that alongside smoking my cigar. It's just a little bit of an overwhelming flavor experience for [01:23:00] what I want with a cigar. And to your point, Senator, Senator. If I'm sitting at home and I'm just looking for a bourbon, and we've talked about this when you don't have a cigar and you're at a, an event, you can't have a cigar and you want to have a scotch, you might reach for something that's a little bit more peaty.
It's the same thing with this bourbon. If I don't have a cigar, I might want to reach for this to give me a little bit more oomph, a little bit more of an experience when I can't have a cigar or
**Bam Bam:** a smoky cocktail like a paper plane.
**Gizmo:** There you go. Senator raised his eyebrows. Not in agreement.
**Senator:** I don't see the parallel with this.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So for me, it's a seven. I, I, I thought it was, uh, I thought it was a good bourbon, but you know, pairing with a cigar and our experience tonight, it wasn't great.
**Poobah:** It's like almost, um, like a, you know, like Talisker, how, how it, it, it can, it can be almost. Overwhelming. Almost, you know, overwhelming, um, [01:24:00] Not that they taste any similar.
They don't. Um, yeah, it's a little divergent for me. It, it doesn't converge well with, uh, with what I'm looking for with a cigar. So I agree with all the commentary. I, I, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, rehash what was already said. I agree with everything. So for me, it's a, for me, it's a seven. I wish I knew more about this stuff or could appreciate it more.
Maybe, maybe in time, um, you know,
**Gizmo:** I will. So boys, the formal liquor rating on the Colonel E. H. Taylor, small batch bourbon, is a 7. 2. Okay. And now it's time to do the formal lizard rating on the foundation, the Tabernacle in Lansero. Rooster, you're up. Yep.
**Rooster:** Great cigar. I mean, just on combustion, it's a 10. Uh, flavor wise, I mean, I'm getting, you know, throughout, like, you get cocoa and coffee and, uh, Right down to the end.
Got some little hints of cinnamon, [01:25:00] a little bit of black pepper, which is not overpowering. Powering. Um, great cigar. Uh, I'm gonna give it a nine.
**Gizmo:** All right. uba,
**Pagoda:** by the way, that's a 10 for you listeners. Bookies for a new world. Being raided by Rooster at nine, I think is fantastic.
**Gizmo:** That's high. He, he gave the olivo like a 10.
Oh, did he? Oh, I think he gave that an 11
**Senator:** Now, if Poobah gives it a 9,
**Gizmo:** then that's a 10. I'm not
**Poobah:** giving it a 9.
**Bam Bam:** Hold on, guys. Hold on. Pagoda, you're next. It's
**Pagoda:** a 10, please. I'm reminiscing. I love Tabernacle. Um, you know, it just reminded me of the past. I've had a really wonderful experience smoking this, you know, from the beginning to the end. And, uh, I think I'm going to go and buy a box right away.
That's a 10 for me. All
right.
**Poobah:** Poobah. Um, it's an eight for me. It's not like right in my power alley. Um, like gun to my head, I'd [01:26:00] probably smoke an illusion, you know? Um, Different, completely different cigar. Um, but I really liked it. I mean, would I, like if I was in a, if I was browsing through a cigar store and picking up singles, like I would definitely grab, I would definitely grab a few of these.
Yeah. And keep just that. I definitely would like to have four or five in my humidor. Mm-Hmm. . It's not something I'd reach for like that often, but post interview definitely something like that, that, that I'd buy.
**Gizmo:** So. So for me, this was a nine, uh, I found the delivery vehicle of this flavor to be really, really smooth, really, really easy.
I really enjoyed it. I was expecting a little bit more of a spice. And I think that's what I'm really happy is not present is an element of spice. And Nicaraguan cigars. There's no spice here. And I thought that the smoothness because of that [01:27:00] really, really elevated the entire experience for me. It was a full flavor, full experience with a really, really smooth delivery, super accessible, all day.
I'm very, very happy with the nine. Senator. So
**Senator:** I'm, I'm more aligned with Poobah on this. I'm at an eight. I think the construction is, is excellent. The combustion, like Rooster said. outstanding. I just, for me again, you know, I, I fully anticipated, you know, why Rooster would love this cigar. If you smoke two sticks in a day, this slots in really well.
For me, the volume that I smoke, you know, I have this cigar and it's like a meal and I'm not even sure that I want another cigar after it. It's just a lot. And I also think the flavor profile for me, you know, when I, and I love Nicaraguan tobacco, but when I pursue that, I like. A little more complexity where I think like the Padron profile that like has [01:28:00] some of these dessert notes, but also balance it out with some earthiness and I just like how the flavor profile plays together a bit more than I do this.
That felt, um, too similar and not, not as complex as I would be looking for. And I also think that the delivery of, you know, Padron and some even other Nicaraguans that we've had. It still feels smoother. And it's not that there were rough edges here, but it's just so intense. Um, the flavor that I get out of this cigar, that it doesn't leave me wanting much more after it.
And, um, that's a problem because I like to enjoy many cigars usually throughout the day. So it's a recommend. I would definitely smoke it again. This is my second one, but. It's not necessarily, not necessarily something I'm going to go pursue a box of. And, um, I think for someone who loves a bold, full flavor cigar, this is right in their wheelhouse.
I think for someone who likes full cigars, but, um, maybe not as full as this [01:29:00] cigar, like myself, you know, it's a soft recommend.
**Gizmo:** All
**Bam Bam:** right, Bam, I think an eight's an excellent score. I mean, that's, that's where I'm at. I'm at an eight. That's, I think, a step above a soft recommend. I admire the consistency from beginning to end.
I love the smooth delivery. It, for me, was very velvety. It was reminiscent of some of, of a Padron and a Liga 9 hybrid for me, possibly. Um, I've, I got dessert notes, some pepper toward the end. I think it was very enjoyable. Eight. Yeah, it
**Pagoda:** does get very peppery towards the end. Not much,
**Bam Bam:** not, not in a harsh way though.
Not a harsh way. No, not at
**Gizmo:** all. I experience no pepper. Not at, well,
**Bam Bam:** a touch. I can't even, there is a touch. But the pepper, the pepper is not off putting for, for me. For
**Senator:** others
**Gizmo:** it might be. You weren't retro hailing
**Senator:** enough.
**Gizmo:** Uh, you know, I got the pepper. I mean, come on. That's a good point, Senator. Thank you.
Yeah. So I
**Rooster:** know that Poobah would pick an Ellucian.
**Gizmo:** Over this guy. Ellucian VSG over this. So, so would I. But I would pick this over the, I would too, which makes
**Bam Bam:** sense. I would expect the G. L. So I would too, and I'm at an eight for specific [01:30:00] reasons because, you know, I like to, like Senator, I do like to experience several cigars.
It's really quite satisfying. One of these, you're done and you're going home.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And
**Rooster:** the price point. Oh,
**Gizmo:** you
**Bam Bam:** can't beat that. Yeah. These are all great
**Gizmo:** scores, guys. All right, boys. The formal lizard rating on the foundation, the Tabernacle. And Lancero is an 8. 7. Wow. Wow.
**Bam Bam:** Great score. That's an impressive score.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Yeah. So let's compare it to some of the other Foundation we've done on the pod. We did the Foundation Tabernacle Robusto in Maduro on episode 43, which got an 8. 2. So this is a little bit higher than that. The El Wawense Wise Man in Toro Huaco we did on episode 95, a 7. 8. And we did the Olmec in Claro Robusto.
On episode 106, which got an 8. 0. So this Lancero is the highest of all four foundations that we've done.
**Bam Bam:** And I think that's fair. It's better than
**Gizmo:** [01:31:00] all those cigars. I agree. Yeah. And this is a cigar. Like you said, I think I'm going to get a box. I would have these. Yeah. I think I'm going to get a box. Sure.
I would too. Yeah, I think so. Yep. Great cigar. These come box of 25. 25. Yeah. I'd get a handful. I'll sell you a fiver. I'll sell you a fiver out of mine.
**Bam Bam:** Sounds good.
**Poobah:** What's so
**Gizmo:** funny? It's just your lack of enthusiasm. It's hilarious to me. Yeah. All right, boys. A great night tonight. So on the Colonel E. H. Taylor, small batch bourbon, we had a 7. 2. And on the foundation, the tabernacle in Lancero, we had an 8. 7. Great night boys. Great conversation and we'll see everybody next week.
Keep smoking. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com. That's lounge lizards [01:32:00] p d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.
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