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Ask A Kansan is a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting and uncovering stories across Kansas.
Every week, Gus and Sydney sit down with the people who actually make this state run — museum directors and ranchers, founders and historians, zookeepers and woodcarvers. From Kansas City to Kinsley, WaKeeney to Wichita, we go where the story is.
You'll leave each episode knowing something you didn't about the state we call home. It's not a history lecture and it's not a business show. It's a real conversation with a Kansan worth knowing.
New episodes weekly. askakansan.com
Ep76
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Auction Bass Case Mystery
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[00:00:00]
Gus Applequist: About 15 years ago, I went to an auction in Lindsborg. And, you know, auctions in Lindsborg are a little bit interesting 'cause it's kind of an artsy town.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And they have Bethany College. Yeah. So there's, there's a lot of Bethany-
Sydney Collins: There's a lot of interesting-
Gus Applequist: ... stuff that works their way through auctions there. But there was this big wood thing off to one side, and my mom's like, "Gus, you gotta come down here. You gotta see this." And so I, I went down there, and what it was was it was a bass case. It was a wooden bass case-
Sydney Collins: Oh
Gus Applequist: ... like for an upright-
Sydney Collins: Yeah
Gus Applequist: ... double bass, like, like I play. It's about six feet tall, and, uh, the most interesting
Well, there's several things that are interesting about it. It was built, I'm not sure, over 100 years ago, and what I think it was built for was to transport double basses by
Sydney Collins: train- Oh,
that makes sense ...
Gus Applequist: to Carnegie Hall, where I think at least twice the chorus of the Messiah that sings each year-
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah.
That
makes sense
Gus Applequist: ... I, I believe that's what it was built [00:01:00] for. The back of it is pretty rough, and, and there's ... It's clear that it's, like, made out of something else, and I think what it's made out of is old crates. There's printing on it, and when you look at this case, what I believe the case is telling me is that it was made by a coffin maker.
Sydney Collins: No.
Gus Applequist: Because the-
Sydney Collins: You think?
Gus Applequist: ... the corners are all held together by metal with rivets in them, and it, it looks just like the, the build of, like, an old-school coffin.
Sydney Collins: Is this the thing in your living room,
or in your dining room?
Gus Applequist: Yes, this is the thing in my riv- living room. Every Christmas, I wrap it in Christmas lights.
Sydney Collins: Yes, you
do.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Uh, but yeah, so I, I, I ... Anyway, I, I need a coffin maker to come and look at this bass case and tell me if my suspicions are correct. This will be relevant in this episode later.
Sydney Collins: It will be relevant.
Gus Applequist: Um, that's why I bring it up.
Sydney Collins: Now I'm so curious.
Gus Applequist: So yeah, anyway, that's my story.
[00:02:00]
Today's Guest
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask a Kansan ...
Sydney Collins: a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting, and uncovering stories across Kansas.
Gus Applequist: and and in nearly 80 episodes of this podcast, there's many things we haven't done, but one of those things is have a real, live musician play music on the podcast.
Sydney Collins: Have we had a musician on the podcast?
Gus Applequist: Oh, no.
Sydney Collins: That's what I was trying to think when we were talking earlier. I go, "I don't... I'm sure we have." This might... But-
Gus Applequist: We've definitely had people that are also musicians. Yes. I don't know if it's been a subject matter.
Sydney Collins: Exactly. So-
Gus Applequist: Which, which shame on us. Yeah. So-
But it's, it's time. Today is the day.
Sydney Collins: Today's the day.
Gus Applequist: So, uh, you're gonna hear a couple selections from our guest. Our guest is Derrick, the Flint Hills Fiddler.
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Gus Applequist: And Derrick [00:03:00] is, is a, is sort of a, uh, a child of a bygone era, era. He's, he- He's... I c- I can't describe him other than he is so uniquely him, and not in like a weird, like, ironic way.
Not at all.
Sydney Collins: It's not like it's intentional at all.
It is literally just his personality, just him being him.
And it's... I wanna meet his family so bad. Like, I meet, we meet all these people, and I'm like, "I wanna know where you come from." 'Cause it's just so- Yeah I don't know, just-
Gus Applequist: Even the way he speaks is just a little bit different, in a, in a great way.
Sydney Collins: In
a great way.
Yeah.
I don't know. I'm just a, I'm a big fan now, mainly 'cause I love his pants.
Yeah , he has great pants. And he has, he
has good style.
Gus Applequist: And, and I got to nerd out a little bit on this one too, 'cause I'm a fellow musician. Yeah, he'll s- And so we gotta talk some of the finer details of, of instruments and stuff.
Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, the only thing I have to contribute is toes- ... and you'll figure that out here later. But without any further
ado-
Gus Applequist: Foreshadowing.
Sydney Collins: Without any further ado, here is our conversation with the Flint Hills [00:04:00] Fiddler.
Meet the Flint Hills Fiddler
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Gus Applequist: Hello and welcome.
Sydney Collins: What's up?
Welcome back.
Yeah.
Gus Applequist: How's it going?
Derrick Doty: Oh, pretty fair.
Gus Applequist: Good. Okay. How about you? Let's, we'll get this up. Yeah, it's going pretty well. Yeah. Thanks for being here today.
Derrick Doty: Well, thank you for having me.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Would you mind introducing yourself for our audience?
Derrick Doty: I'm Derrick Doty, and I currently live in Manhattan.
I'm a musician and historian there, and music teacher.
Gus Applequist: Lovely. You know, I'm gonna start in kind of a funny place. Uh, sometimes little things stand out in our communication prior to an interview, and with you, it was your email signature. Um, your signature is, uh, Ambrose Bierce. I don't... I think.
Yeah.
His definition of a fiddle, which is, "An instrument to tickle human ears by friction of a horse's tail on the entrails of a cat." That's quite a description.
Derrick Doty: It is, yes.
Sydney Collins: You had me until the entrails of the cat.
Derrick Doty: Yeah. Are you familiar with Ambrose Bierce?
Gus Applequist: I'm not. No.
Derrick Doty: Okay. So he was, [00:05:00] like, really the first author to really write about the Civil War after the Civil War. And I just love his writings. Um, probably one of the most well-known is The Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. But, I mean, he just, he's almost like the Stephen King of, of his day.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Derrick Doty: Just kinda takes you away and talks about some really creepy stuff.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, entrails of a cat-
kinda does that for a person, doesn't it?
Fiddle vs Violin Explained
---
Gus Applequist: Um, so I guess where I wanna start is could you distinguish for me between a fiddle and a violin, even though they're technically the same instrument? Yes. What, what is different about these two concepts?
Derrick Doty: That, that is the question that is most asked.
Gus Applequist: I'm so sorry.
Derrick Doty: And, uh, yeah. Uh, no, it, it's good, and it's something that has been causing confusion for centuries apparently. But yeah, really there's no difference in the instrument itself. Uh, we have different ways that we like to talk about it, like we might, we might refer to the violin as the [00:06:00] noun.
When we're talking about the instrument, we're talking about the violin, or it could also be the formal name of the instrument. And fiddle could be the verb. We talk about what we're doing with the instrument, or it could also be the informal name of the instrument. But yes, essentially they're, they're one in the same. There might be some things that fiddlers like different, like maybe a flatter bridge. Um, violinists like a more arched, pronounced bridge. Aside from that, there's
no difference.
All those double stops, right?
Gus Applequist: The double stop, yeah.
Sydney Collins: So I wanna kind of backtrack 'cause our audience probably doesn't know. You are known as the Flint Hills Fiddler, and so that's why we're asking these fiddle- Yeah
and we're asking these questions- Yeah, yeah ... so just for kind of context for our audience.
Gus Applequist: Well, since you brought it up, how did you become the Flint Hills Fiddler?
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: Well, it was completely an accident and unexpected. I, I needed a good email that people could remember. Yeah. So I thought, "Hey, nobody has used Flint Hills Fiddler," so that became my email, and then next thing I know, that's what people are calling me, and I thought, [00:07:00] "Well, that's, that's an okay handle."
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: So.
Kansas Roots and Learning Fiddle
---
Gus Applequist: Can you kind of describe your Kansas story? Like, um, I, I caught from your pre-interview that, that, uh, you're following in your great-grandfather's footsteps as a musician. Could you kind of describe how you came to be in Kansas?
Derrick Doty: Well, I'm, I'm trying to follow in his footsteps. Um, well, I was born in Kansas, born and raised here. And outside of the two years that we lived in Ithaca, New York, I've just always been here. My family's been here since at least the 18... I think my, my great-great-granduncle came here in 1869, uh, but, you know, around that period. My great-grandfather, who was a fiddler, um, he bought the family farm where my parents currently live in Osage County, and we've been there for, well, since 1918. But yeah, so I heard these stories about him fiddling for barn dances and house dances in our neighborhood, and I just thought, "That sounds like fun. I wanna do [00:08:00] that." So that's kinda what inspired me to take up the instrument. However, you know, he died before my mother was born, so I never knew him. I didn't learn his repertoire.
There's so much I wish I knew. Uh, but yeah.
Gus Applequist: Um, was it hard to find a teacher that could teach you about fiddle as opposed to violin?
Derrick Doty: In my neighborhood where I grew up, we didn't know of any fiddlers. Um, there was one guy that, he lived maybe three miles away, and I think he played fiddle, but he was more known for harmonica and guitar and stuff. Uh, but it wasn't until I got into high school, we found an older guy near Pomona Lake that, uh, he played all kinds of instruments, but he was also a fiddler. And, uh, so his name was Gene Robinson, and he kind of became my first mentor on the fiddle at that at that point
Sydney Collins: So as someone who is not musically inclined, or at least I used to be, I'm out of practice for a very, very long time, but I was also a percussionist, [00:09:00] so um, what is, like, the technical difference between just playing a violin and a fiddle?
Like, what's the technical differences, I guess? Oh. Does that make any sense?
Derrick Doty: How much time do you have? Everybody has a different opinion on that. I mean, um, we, we... Probably the most notable thing might be the bow hold technique. Fiddlers have a different style of bow hold. Um, but you know, even in, even in classical violin, there's a bunch of different ways to hold the bow, and fiddlers all got those holds from the classic traditions as well. So yeah, I mean, even between violin instructors, you're gonna find difference of opinion on how you should hold your bow. And as a teacher, I'm always just presenting to my students, "Okay, let's look at three or four different options to hold your bow. You figure out what's [00:10:00] comfortable, and you go with that."
I'm not gonna tell them that, "This is the right way. This is the only way to do that."
Gus Applequist: I love that. I, I was taught to pull my bass bow a certain way. And I always got a cramp in my thumb.
Derrick Doty: Yep.
Gus Applequist: And about in, uh, late high school, I was like, "You know what? Not doing that anymore. I'm just... I know it's wrong.
I'm gonna hold it this way."
Derrick Doty: And that saved your hands.
Gus Applequist: It did, and I've- I'm so much more comfortable playing. Yeah. So I'm glad that's the way you teach. That's awesome.
Fiddle Tradition and Dance Culture
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Gus Applequist: There's something about the fiddle that, not that, not that the, that violin playing classical music doesn't have soul. It absolutely does. But, but fiddle seems so much more rooted in, in like, um, in folk culture and in, in like this sense of place. And, I'm curious, as you have picked up this instrument and studied it over time, how has your understanding of Kansas sort of been, um, you know, shaped and changed by the instrument?
Derrick Doty: You know, I think about, um... [00:11:00] A friend of mine, he once said that the fiddle just seems quintessentially Kansas, and I was kinda struck by that. I- nobody had ever said that. But it's like, yeah, I, I kinda feel that way, too. Kansas has a long and rich fiddling tradition, but we didn't do a very good job documenting it. It didn't get showcased. You know, you look at our neighbors, Missouri. Missouri has a great, rich fiddling tradition. They've done a great job. They've capitalized on it. They've documented it. Um, and I, I think Kansas also had that rich tradition.
We just tend to not toot our own horn.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: And so, you know, it's like, oh, this, this is a leisure activity. We didn't bother to record it or anything. But it, it obviously was important to us. Uh, we had fiddle contests early on, and, and I think, I think particularly we go back to pre-recording days. These live musicians, these fiddlers in our community were such an important, integral part.
They [00:12:00] provided entertainment at socials, at picnics, and also provided the music for the dance, um, which just created so much energy.
Gus Applequist: Is, is fiddle music and dance like irrevo- irrevocably intertwined-
Derrick Doty: They-
Gus Applequist: or are they also distinct?
Derrick Doty: Yeah, they, I mean, that's, that's what the fiddle is about. You're supposed to dance to this music. Um, that, uh, for hundreds of years, that's what this music has been about, uh, to contra dance to, to square dance to, uh, or just dance alone individually, buck dancing or, or flatfooting- too, because it's, it's exciting. It's energetic. There, and, and there's this exchange of energy between the musicians and the dancers, too. So yeah, they, they're like, they're peas in a pod.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Derrick Plays the Fiddle
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Gus Applequist: Well, we've talked a lot about music. Would you mind breaking out the fiddle and, and sharing something with us?
Derrick Doty: I could do that.
Gus Applequist: Awesome. [00:13:00] that was awesome. Thank you so much for showing it. Want me to- Yeah, please pull that back up. Um, I have, I have several things that I wanna do. First, I wanna highlight a couple things to your question about what distinguishes fiddle playing from violin.
Um, one is there's some little slides that he was doing in there- between notes. Not that violins don't, or violinists don't do that, but, but it's, it's used quite a bit in fiddle [00:14:00] playing, as well as double stops when you're droning on a lower note, and that was sort of creating, like, a, a, a harmony for him to play with on the, the higher notes. So yeah, just wanna try to help our audience maybe- Yeah, yeah ... get some of the, those little things out of it.
Sydney Collins: And for those who don't know anything, it woke the baby up, so
Gus Applequist: Well, that's exciting.
Sydney Collins: So yeah, it got real excited.
Gus Applequist: Might have a fiddler in him.
Sydney Collins: Well, maybe.
Derrick Doty: They, they can hear everything. They can hear everything.
This is a good time to get them started with music. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Instrument Story and Bow Hair
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Gus Applequist: I, I wanna ask, is there any, you know, this specific instrument, does it have a story for you?
Derrick Doty: It does. Um, this is ac- this was a gift to me. Uh, my stepdad gave this to me probably over 20 years ago, and it, he got it from a friend. It belonged to his friend's mother, and she played the violin when she was young.
So we're thinking 1930s, 1920s or so.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Derrick Doty: Um, and they, the family just had no use for it. Nobody was playing it, so, um, it ended [00:15:00] up coming to me, and it's, uh- Oh,
Gus Applequist: wow
Derrick Doty: one of
Gus Applequist: these- Yeah, beautiful inlays ...
Derrick Doty: one of these nice little examples. Probably a German-made instrument. Yeah. Early part of the century
Gus Applequist: Which this kind of flies just a little bit in the face of the idea that, that fiddles and violins, um, are the same.
I mean, I've, I've been around violins nearly my entire life- and I've never seen one with these sorts of inlays in it. Yeah. And I think that's maybe a little bit more in the fiddle tradition. Would that be a fair thing to say? Um- Or not necessarily? Pr-
Derrick Doty: I, I, I think so, yeah. There you see some, uh, violin makers that were doing like, uh, inlaid purfling on the back, not quite as ornamented as this. The, I mean, this, this looks fancy, but this is basically they took the broken pieces of mother of pearl that they weren't gonna use, and they made use of it by sticking it in here and making it look pretty. Um, but yeah, I've had several instruments like this through my hands over the years. Sometimes what happens is those mother of pearl get loose in there and they just vibrate- Oh, no
and [00:16:00] it's, it's horrible. But th- this is the best sounding of any of these instruments I've ever had, so I'm pretty happy with it.
Sydney Collins: How many do you have? Which are-
Derrick Doty: Not as many as you'd think.
Sydney Collins: Yeah?
Derrick Doty: I've really only... I've got, this is my main violin. I play this all the time. Uh, my wife has a violin, um, that she plays once in a while, and I've got my great-grandfather's violin.
Sydney Collins: Oh, wow.
Derrick Doty: Outside of that, that's, that's it. But banjos.
Gus Applequist: We'll get to banjos.
Derrick Doty: Got lots of banjos.
Gus Applequist: Um- I think it's, it's probably different for every musician. So from one musician to another, I'm, I'm curious, um, you know, when you pick up a different violin, it's not the same as your violin.
Derrick Doty: That's right.
Gus Applequist: Right?
Yeah. Can you describe that relationship with this instrument?
Derrick Doty: Well, you know, I've been playing this for over two decades, so I just, I've really connected with it. I know how it feels. Um, you might notice that the string spacing at the nut is farther apart [00:17:00] than most violins, and that was just my preference.
I, I had to replace this fingerboard and nut, and I decided I want, I want those strings far apart, and that's what I'm used to playing. Um, you know, and also the, the arch of the bridge is another thing. You know, I get a different instrument, it, it could... I've played, like, seven and $8,000 fiddles. And I just, I don't like 'em. Yeah. I, I like this gift fiddle.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
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Gus Applequist: We, we were, we were [00:18:00] talking just a little bit about the black hair on your bow. Why do you have black hair and not white hair on your bow?
Derrick Doty: Well, it's kind of funny. So, um, I used to rehair bows a long time ago, and I don't do that anymore 'cause it's kind of tedious. Uh, but I used a lot of black hair in rehairing simply because it was inexpensive. You know, you could spend seven bucks on a hank of hair that was black, as opposed to getting bleached horsehair, which might be $30 or $40 or more. so that was really why I went with black. But today I do it, not because it's cheaper.
They, they still charge you the same amount when you go to get it rehaired. But black hair, since it's unprocessed, it's not bleached, it has, it has that, that cuticle that really grabs- the string better. Um, so that's, that's why I like it.
Gus Applequist: I've, um, I play the double bass, and I, I have two bows that I travel with, one black and one white hair, and, and for more softer things, I use the white hair, and the, the black hair for more [00:19:00] grip and bite- and, uh, kind of that gritty sound. So yeah, thanks for- Yeah ... for talking about that. second.
Sydney Collins: I'm learning so much today.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. We want to make sure you're educated.
Music History in Kansas
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Gus Applequist: So I want to shift into talking about some of the work you've done, s- um, in history and research. Um, you've, you've been a speaker for H- Humanities Kansas, um, where your talks have mentioned that music has been present in Kansas throughout battles and politics, across peoples and geographies. Could you give us an idea of what music might have been popular in the state for one such historic event?
Derrick Doty: Yeah. Um, well, thinking back to the early times, uh, territorial Kansas, 1850s, uh, one of the, one of the pieces that I share about frequently is this poem that was written by John Greenleaf Whittier, uh, called The Kansas Immigrant, and you might be familiar with it, or if not. But at that time, he, he wrote this poem [00:20:00] about these immigrants coming to Kansas to help establish it as a free state in the Union and, you know, end the spread of slavery in the West, and that was really why many people came here. Uh, and shortly after Whittier wrote this, this, uh, verse, they put it to music, and so it became a song, and it kind-- it pretty much became the anthem of these Free-Staters as they traveled by steamship and rail to Kansas. Um, interestingly enough, so, um, there's this composer, Marion Dix Sullivan, she was a pretty famous American composer at the time, put Whittier's, uh, lyrics to music, and she added her own refrain. It wasn't very interesting. I don't, I don't think anybody cared for it. Uh, but what stuck is that somebody figured out, oh, hey, there's this old traditional Scottish tune that everybody already knows, and it fits the meter of Whittier's verse, so they start singing it to that, um, and it was Auld Lang Syne.
Gus Applequist: Oh.
Derrick Doty: We cross the prairie [00:21:00] as of old The pilgrims crossed the sea To make the West as they the East The homestead of the free And so I, I just think it's really cool that, you know, music at that time was helping to shape what Kansas would become. And, and that's just one example. There were other people writing music about settling Kansas and, and the Free State cause at that period.
Gus Applequist: I've always felt like Auld Lang Syne has this, um... There's a little bit of melancholy in there. There's a little bit of, of, um, acknowledging time's progression. And I think as someone who's immigrating, those thoughts and feelings have to be right there underneath the surface. So I'm not surprised- Yeah
that that would be a, a melody that they would pick. Wow, thanks for sharing that.
Derrick Doty: Yeah.
Barber Shop to Historian
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Gus Applequist: Um, you've spent 12 years as a barber in Council Grove.
Derrick Doty: I did.
Gus Applequist: Um, and, and you told us that, that that experience is where you got into history. What is it about cutting hair [00:22:00] that turned a fiddler into a researcher?
Derrick Doty: Well, you know, as you're getting all these guys in your chair, they're telling you stories, and, you know, some of them are great, and you think, "Oh, wow, that's, that's one to write down." And then some of them are questionable. You're like- ... "Well, that, that doesn't even make sense at face value." So anyway, you start, you start questioning some of the things you hear, and so you dig a little deeper. You know, Council Grove, as you may know, is a historical place, or as they say there, it's hysterical. But they've got all these wonderful historic sites and so many great stories. And so I just started diving into a lot of these commonly held, um, we might call them urban legends. One of which was this story of a tunnel that leads from the Post Office Oak Museum to the riverbank, which was supposed to be for, you know, escaping Indian raids. Only problem is there's, uh, there's absolutely no evidence that anything like that ever existed. Darn. But these are the stories that continue to get [00:23:00] told. So I, I really got into this trying to prove, well, is this story true? 'Cause I want it to be true. But, you know, at the end of the day, I had to say, "Nah, there's just, there's not enough evidence to support this."
But... So that's, that's kinda how I got into researching.
Gus Applequist: Wow. Do you still cut hair?
Derrick Doty: Just my children. Yeah. And, and my wife. Um, that's, that's it
Banjo Champion Origins
---
Gus Applequist: So you are the 2023 Kansas State Banjo Champion.
Derrick Doty: That's right.
Gus Applequist: How, how did you earn that title?
Derrick Doty: Well, um, I think it's because I did something on the banjo that nobody else did. Uh, not that it was difficult or hard or anything, but it sounded hard. But really the pieces I played were, they were pretty simple as far as banjo playing goes.
But it impressed the judges, I think, because everybody else was playing bluegrass style- or clawhammer style, and I chose to go with what we call classic banjo [00:24:00] style. Um, and that, I think that just kind of intrigued them
Sydney Collins: So when you first started off that sentence, I was like, "Did he play with his toes or something?"
Like the way you, the way you started that out. I'm like, "Oh, it's a style." You played it in a way, in style. Got it. Not in a way. Never mind. Sorry.
Gus Applequist: No, you're good.
Sydney Collins: I don't know.
Gus Applequist: So like you, you just mentioned so three different styles, and, and I, I know just a little bit about banjo to know that, um, there's like...
And then is there flat picking? No, that's guitar. Flat picking is-
Derrick Doty: Flat picking guitar,
Gus Applequist: Yeah Okay. Sorry. I'm, I'm showing my own, uh, uh,
Sydney Collins: I just said I thought he played with his toes, so.
Gus Applequist: That's okay. Yeah. We're-
We're
on the same page.
But, but
Derrick Doty: that's another-
Sydney Collins: I think the bar is set pretty high
Derrick Doty: ... that's another way.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: You can play the banjo with a pick as w- That's called plectrum style playing. Not many people do that anymore.
Gus Applequist: The instrument I play, the double bass, is one in which there's, compared to the violin, the viola, and the cello, there's, there's not much that's been figured out. Like, we're still innovating.
We're still changing things a lot. There's not, like, the Suzuki method [00:25:00] or whatever. And it strikes me that the same thing is, is true for the instruments that, that you play, is that there's, these things are in development and still being figured out. Is that a fair thing to say?
Derrick Doty: Well, I, I think maybe to a point, yeah.
Um, fi- fiddlers, I think they've, well, they've kinda got it figured out what they want to do or what they think they should do, but there's lots of room for innovation yet. Um.
Gus Applequist: You, you banjo players are, are a certain breed, and, and it's, it's a pleasure to, to, like Steve Martin, uh, to know Steve Martin, um, and his comedy, uh, is to, is to see the banjo player in him.
And, and I don't just mean that in that he's funny or odd. And sometimes he is those things, but, but it's, it's more than that. It's, it, there's, there's a certain perspective I feel you all have that's, that's fun. Yeah.
Banjo History in Kansas
---
Gus Applequist: So um, how did the banjo become part of the folk tradition here in Kansas? You mentioned that it feels like innately Kansan. Um, and I know, I know we don't have a ton [00:26:00] of history, but do you have any guesses towards the answers to that question?
Derrick Doty: Well, there's not a lot of documentation about banjo in Kansas. Uh, what little there is, we know that the banjo was brought in most likely from a lot of enslaved, uh, people who came in to the territory, um, and brought the banjo with them, brought the fiddle with them, particularly in the northeastern part of Kansas, the, uh, Kansas River Valley region.
We, we hear about, uh, Black banjo players and fiddlers there. Uh, but we also, every once in a while, we see a little snippet. Uh, there was a guy in southwestern Butler County, not terribly far from Wichita- In the 1870s he played this old style fretless banjo. Uh, there was a family that documented his playing and, and what he played and what he liked to sing.
So we do see, you know, banjo players around the state. Fast-forward to the 1880s and '90s, um, [00:27:00] there was a guy named Link, uh, Lowery, short for Lincoln, and his son Perry Lowery. They were from Emporia, Kansas. Um, they had moved there in the 1870s or '80s as Exodusters, and Link was this great banjo player, and he and his son ended up touring the state.
You know, you see mentions of them at, uh, Parsons, different places. They were in Topeka at some point playing, but they would just travel and perform on banjo and piano and, and, so yeah, it's, it's been around here a while. Wow.
Banjo Performance and Gear Talk
---
Gus Applequist: Well, would you mind switching over to the banjo for us?
Derrick Doty: Sure thing.
Gus Applequist: Do you, do you have something to play for us?
Derrick Doty: I
Sydney Collins: sure do.
Gus Applequist: Awesome. [00:28:00] [00:29:00] That was, that was awesome. s- so to me, like, th- this, doesn't necessarily sound like, like the, the banjo that I necessarily have heard a lot in the past, and I'm guessing-
Derrick Doty: No, it's not
Gus Applequist: that's partially style, partially the instrument. I see you, you don't have a resonator, is that right?
Derrick Doty: Yeah, there's no resonator.
This is an open back banjo.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. And, and you were using three fingers to play- I think I counted correctly.
Derrick Doty: Yep, yep.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. And, and your banjo... Oh, it does have a fifth string. I thought it only had four. It
Derrick Doty: does, but the tuner's in a different place.
Gus Applequist: Interesting.
Derrick Doty: Th- this is, this is a special banjo.
There's, um, there's not many of these around, uh, but this is, this is a John Henning banjo. And Henning actually lived here in Kansas in the 1880s. He lived in Emporia, ended up moving to Chicago. But he developed this banjo. This was his idea of the banjo for the future. So one of the things was to get rid of that fifth string tuner on the neck, and he put it on the [00:30:00] tailpiece.
Sydney Collins: Wow. Oh.
Derrick Doty: Which isn't real practical, but it works. Uh, but the other th- really interesting thing about this banjo, he, he put a steel brace in the neck. So there's a steel brace that runs all the way from the peg head through the neck, through the dowel stick- Wow ... to the end in one piece. So until someone else proves otherwise, I'm inclined to believe this is the first banjo that was made intentionally for the use of steel strings in the 1890s.
Sydney Collins: Oh.
Gus Applequist: Wow. Sydney, have you ever held a banjo? I'm not gonna ask you to hold your banjo, but-
Sydney Collins: No, I don't need to hold a banjo.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: No, I've never held a banjo.
Gus Applequist: So I don't think people realize how heavy they often are.
Derrick Doty: They can be heavy, yeah.
Gus Applequist: They can be very heavy. I don't take it, though, that your instrument is very heavy.
Is that true?
Derrick Doty: This, this one is not. The, the heavy banjos are usually the bluegrass style. They've got this- really heavy brass, uh, tone ring in it, and that's, that's really where the weight comes from, and they can be, like, 13 pounds.
Sydney Collins: Oh my gosh.
Derrick Doty: And I used to play [00:31:00] bluegrass banjo years ago, and I started having shoulder problems from having 13 pounds hanging from my shoulder. And I, I sold my bluegrass banjo and went with an open back, and I've, I've been fine ever since.
Gus Applequist: It sounds great.
Derrick Doty: Well, thank you.
Teaching Roots and Routine
---
Gus Applequist: So, so let's talk a little bit about your teaching. So you have, you have students, I take it.
Derrick Doty: I do have students, yes.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. And, uh, when did you start doing that, and, and why?
Derrick Doty: Well, I've been teaching music since I was in high school.
Um, there'd be, you know, moms and dads that want their kid to take piano, so that was kind of my after-school job to teach some piano lessons. Uh, I started doing fiddle lessons pretty early on, uh, but that was another thing I did in Council Grove while I was a barber. In the after hours, I would teach guitar and fiddle and, you know, whatever somebody wanted to learn. Um, but since moving to Manhattan, uh, we moved there in 2020, um, I've [00:32:00] just pretty much gone to music full time, either playing or teaching. So I teach out of home, and I also teach at the Flint Hills Academy of Music in Wamego-
Sydney Collins: Oh, cool
Derrick Doty: ... uh, where I've got quite a few students there. And they, they teach all kinds, you know, a lot of piano, a lot of string, and even brass and reed instruments.
Gus Applequist: I have this, like, Norman Rockwell painting in my head of you teaching banjo, uh, in your barber shop. I'm sure that's not actually-
Derrick Doty: Yeah, that's pret-
Was it?
That's pretty ... that's pretty accurate.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. That, that's, that's a wonderful vision. Yeah. Wow.
Sydney Collins: I feel like it could be a Hallmark movie-
Gus Applequist: Yeah ...
Sydney Collins: almost.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: I don't know why.
Gus Applequist: No, I definitely agree.
Sydney Collins: But that's, like, I can picture it.
Gus Applequist: I totally agree. So, um, it, it's a, it's a crime that I have not, um, asked you about your different ensembles. Um, would you mind telling us a little bit about, I believe I've counted three different ensembles that you're involved in, or was there more?
Derrick Doty: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, the- mostly three.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Could you tell us about, um, each group and maybe [00:33:00] what sets it apart?
Derrick Doty: Okay.
Tallgrass Express Origins
---
Derrick Doty: Well, I, I guess I should start with Tallgrass Express String Band. That is a group that I helped start- I wanna say 22 years ago. I think, I think we're in our 22nd year. Um, and that was, you know, kind- we kinda started out as a bluegrass band, fiddle, banjo, guitar.
I played mandolin, and we had a bass player. But playing, you know, like traditional tunes and also a few originals. Um, early on though, I got out of that group because I had other stuff going on and other band interests and was getting busy. And so I, I left Tallgrass for quite a few years, and it wasn't till I moved back to Kansas, 2018, Tallgrass had lost their, um, mandolin player.
He was moving, and so they thought, "Well, maybe we'll ask Deryck, see if he's interested again." And I thought about it, and I thought, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll, I'll do that," 'cause it, um... I, I really liked the mission that Tallgrass Express was doing, and that's, uh, [00:34:00] largely Annie Wilson is our guitar player, and she's a singer-songwriter, so she writes lots of songs about the Flint Hills of Kansas, uh, the culture, the flora, the fauna, um, and that seems to really resonate with a lot of people. So that's, yeah, Tallgrass Express. That's been one of the fun projects.
Bodark Old Time Trio
---
Derrick Doty: Uh, more recently, I have an old time trio called Bodark, um, and that is the phonetic spelling of Bois d'Arc, which is the Osage orange tree. Um, there's actually a little community in southern Butler County named Bodark, and my great-great-grandparents used to live there and run the little store there. So there's kinda two reasons why we chose Bodark. Uh, our, our fiddler, Bob Atchison, used to be a forester with, uh, K-State, and he's retired now. So he really loves the bodark tree. You know, that's, that's important to him, and, you know, who doesn't love the bodark tree? So we play, you know, traditional American music, fiddle, banjo, dance music, [00:35:00] and, and sing, sing a little bit, too.
Grandpa Snazzy Mandolin Club
---
Derrick Doty: And then the, uh, the most recent group that, uh, I've got is Grandpa Snazzy, and we are a recreation of a turn-of-the-century mandolin club. So we're a little quartet. We've got violin. I usually play mandolin or banjo. Uh, we've got guitar and cello, but we also add some other really interesting instruments. Like, our cellist also plays the mando bass- Ah which is, you know, this monstrous- Like ... monstrous instrument. Yeah. Um, and I sometimes play the piccolo banjo, which, you know, is like this except it's half as big, and the banjorine, and, and we're playing this old music.
Sydney Collins: The banjorine?
Derrick Doty: The banjorine.
Sydney Collins: Is that a banjo with a tambourine?
Derrick Doty: Not, not quite.
Sydney Collins: No?
Gus Applequist: Close.
Derrick Doty: The, the banjorine is an invention of S.S. Stewart in the 1880s, and it's, it's got, like, a 13-inch rim on it.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Derrick Doty: But it's got a short neck, and it's tuned, I'm gonna say, a fourth higher than [00:36:00] a banjo. Maybe it's a fifth higher. Anyway, it's in a different key.
Got it.
But it was intended to be the lead instrument in a banjo club. Okay. Totally impractical.
Sydney Collins: I still like the banjo-tambourine idea. I think someone needed to, needs to make that.
Gus Applequist: The, the, incredible, uh, ingenuity of, of instrument designers in, in the early 20th century- Yeah
into the mid... Like, right no- like, we all studied s- instruments- Yeah ... in high school, where it's like, these are the families, and- it's, feels very regimented, and it's all figured out. But it wasn't all figured out. No. And, and there was all sorts of interesting innovations.
Derrick Doty: And people are still experimenting.
Gus Applequist: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Mandolin Orchestra Revival
---
Gus Applequist: yeah, I, I bet the average listener probably isn't even aware of the, the, like, the banjo or- or sorry, the mandolin orchestras that existed, um-
Derrick Doty: Yeah ...
Gus Applequist: all over the place. Like, that's why those instruments were invented, right?
Derrick Doty: Yeah, I'd- I'd say that's accurate. Yeah, it was, I mean, it was a craze, not only here in Kansas, but nationally from the mid-1880s up till about 1930, and then we [00:37:00] started getting into horns, brass- big band music. But you know, it was like every community had a mandolin club. And if you're-
Gus Applequist: We are missing out.
Derrick Doty: We are.
Gus Applequist: What have we come
to as a country?
Derrick Doty: It's so great.
Th- there are a few mandolin orchestras- Oh my goodness ... still. Uh, Kansas City- Yeah ... has one. Really? Den- Denver has one, and Manhattan, Kansas, has one.
Uh, we started it up in March of 2024, I think it was. Congrats.
Weirdest Gig Stories
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Sydney Collins: What has been, 'cause you obviously gig a lot, this is probably a selfish question, what has been the oddest gig you guys have ever, you have ever played? Like, one that you just come back and be like, "I don't think we're gonna do that again." Or- Um- or, "That was definitely an experience."
Derrick Doty: I've I've had a few of those. Um. Does it have to be a paying gig?
Sydney Collins: No.
Derrick Doty: We, we-
Sydney Collins: The free ones are always the weirdest.
Derrick Doty: We did a contest once, a band contest. Um, and th- this was another group of, of mine. We, we called ourselves Fiddler's Dream 'cause we had three [00:38:00] fiddlers, and you know, that's-
Sydney Collins: And a dream
Derrick Doty: that's a dream. If, if you're here in Kansas. We thought we were pretty good, so somebody invited us, "Hey, come to this band contest we're having." And we drove up there. We, it took a really long time. They had two stages, and they kept switching the bands off and on. But the thing was, we were, like, the only acoustic group.
Gus Applequist: Oh.
Derrick Doty: The only string band. Everybody else was, like, rock bands, country bands, electric, drums. And so I don't think the judges really knew what to do with us.
Gus Applequist: Oh, that's, I've been in similar situations.
Sydney Collins: I could picture that.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: But w- yeah. It, needless to say, we were crestfallen at the end of that.
How He Builds Coffins
---
Gus Applequist: I, I have a, a tangent question, but I just have to ask it 'cause, 'cause there was just a throwaway in your pre-interview that you build coffins.
Derrick Doty: Ah, yes.
Sydney Collins: Wait, what?
Gus Applequist: He builds coffins.
Sydney Collins: This is not a Hallmark movie anymore.
Derrick Doty: Yeah, everybody needs them.
Gus Applequist: So yeah, could you just talk-
Sydney Collins: Everybody does need them
Gus Applequist: ... just, just briefly, like, how did you [00:39:00] get into coffin-building?
Derrick Doty: Oh, boy. Well, I guess I got into it when we lived in Ithaca, and yeah, I was doing, like, historic woodworking.
I, I'm also a Civil War reenactor, living his- historian, so I would sometimes have to make ammo boxes or toolboxes, just different things. And somebody in, in Gettysburg saw that I was doing this work, and they asked, "Can you make a doll coffin?" And so I said, "Well, maybe." So they sent me all this information.
There's this 1850s doll coffin that's in a Bucks County museum, and it was made by a carpenter for his granddaughter. And so I got all the dimensions. I got the photographs of it. And so I recreated this little doll coffin for this lady's collection. And so that was really the beginning of it. And then after that, I decided, "Well, I should make full-sized coffins." And so I, I made one for myself, and then I decided, "You [00:40:00] know, it's taking up too much room in the basement," so I listed it on Facebook Marketplace, and instead of selling it, I got requests.
Sydney Collins: You got requests.
Derrick Doty: Yes. And so now there's more coffins in my basement. But oh, people kept messaging, "Oh, can you make a coffin for me?"
So yeah, I've, I make coffins for people. And they come and pick 'em up.
I'm so- I feel like this could be a whole nother episode.
Gus Applequist: Oh, yeah, it could. It certainly could.
Sydney Collins: But I just have so many questions, and I don't know where to start.
Gus Applequist: Why, what do these people, um ... Yeah, um, you can obviously go to the, the, not the store, but you can go-
Sydney Collins: The store
Gus Applequist: to the funeral home and, and buy a coffin there. Yeah. What is it, um-
Sydney Collins: What's the difference?
Gus Applequist: Why are they attracted, and, and what are, what are they asking for?
Why Handmade Coffins
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Derrick Doty: Well, I think that the reason they are interested in these coffins is because they're more affordable.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: You know, they- That's fair ... if you go through a, a funeral home, usually, uh, you get like a nice oak coffin.
I'm, I'm mostly making [00:41:00] pine. It's very inexpensive. Yeah. But you get an oak coffin with lots of joinery and molding, I mean, th- those could be $12,000.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Oh, wow.
Sydney Collins: They're not cheap.
Derrick Doty: but yeah. And, and maybe some people are interested in just kind of the old-fashioned- Yeah ... aspect of it. These, these are the old-fashioned style coffins like- people have been buried in for hundreds of years.
Sydney Collins: there any state regulations of what a coffin has to be?
Derrick Doty: You know, there's a book written about, about that kind of thing. Yeah? 'Cause sometimes funeral homes will say, "Well, you, you can't do that," or, or-
Sydney Collins: Well, it depends on the cemetery, I would assume
Derrick Doty: "You, you have to buy from us." Yeah, there's usually like regulations like if you have to be in a vault or something. But when it comes to the coffins, you know, they can't tell you that you have to buy from them. You, you can- buy your coffin anywhere, and they can use it
Gus Applequist: I, I imagine that there, there could be a, um, a certain, uh, freedom that someone might feel knowing the person that makes their [00:42:00] coffin.
You know, just, it- there's something really personal about that.
Derrick Doty: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there is. A, a friend of mine, um, he built his father's coffin, uh, out of- ... cedar that he had cut on his property-
Sydney Collins: Oh, cool
Derrick Doty: ... and, and milled. And so, you know, when his father passed, that, you know, was kind of a meaningful thing.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, wow.
Derrick Doty: Uh, and then some, some lady that he knew was like, "I want you to build my coffin."
Gus Applequist: Hm.
Derrick Doty: Because she thought that was pretty nice.
Gus Applequist: Hm. Wow.
Derrick Doty: So yeah, there's, there's definitely that. Something-
Sydney Collins: There's a whole market out here- Yeah ... that people are not tapping into. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Thank you for going there with us. I, I- Thanks Sure I, I was really genuinely curious about-
Sydney Collins: Again, I have so many more questions ... about that ... but we probably should move on.
Pete Seeger Song Performance
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Gus Applequist: Well, you've, you've gener- generously offered to, to sing a song for us as well. Um-
Derrick Doty: Oh, did I?
Gus Applequist: Yeah. If, I, I hope, uh, if your offer still stands, uh, we'd gladly take you up on it.
Derrick Doty: I have to think about what I would sing.
Um, you, you don't, you don't like to do, um, you don't like politically controversial songs, do you?
Gus Applequist: I mean, generally we-
Sydney Collins: If, if they're sang well. [00:43:00]
Yeah. I'm just kidding.
Gus Applequist: I'm curious, are these, um, are they currently relevant or historically relevant?
Derrick Doty: Well, both, I- Okay
I think. You know, I'm not, I'm not really... in in music, I try not to really get, you know, take political stances or anything. I try to, you know, stay pretty neutral so nobody's- ... offended or scared or anything. But I've really been enjoying Pete Seeger lately.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Derrick Doty: Um, I didn't always appreciate his music, but I just find it seems so relevant to today, just like it was in the '60s and the '30s, and,
Gus Applequist: Well, we'd love to hear something.
Okay, yeah.
Derrick Doty: Well, let's, wasn't really planning to do this today, but let's, let's, we'll try it. Um, so Seeger wrote this, uh, song about, uh, what did you learn in school today? Hm. And we always thought it was kinda humorous, 'cause it's, you know, it's kind of a poke at authority and, and whatnot. But I've also added some of my own verses to it. What did you [00:44:00] learn in school today, dear little boy of mine? What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine? I learned our government must be strong, it's always right, never wrong. Our leaders are the finest men and we elect them again and again.
And that's what I learned in school today. That's what I learned in school
So I had to write some verses that were more up to date.
Gus Applequist: Okay, here we go.
Derrick Doty: What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine? What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine? I learned about the latest trends.
AI is a real godsend. Data centers are all right, even if they keep us awake at night. And that's what I learned in school today. That's what I learned in school What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine? [00:45:00] What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine? I learned my senator works real hard to keep his job and not get fired. People give him a lot of hate just 'cause he lives in another state. And that's what I learned in school today.
That's what I learned in school.
Gus Applequist: Thank you so much.
Sydney Collins: Oh. Yeah. I would, I would li- like to request a couple verses of what kids' actual responses are to that question. Like, "What'd you do at school today?" "I don't know."
Derrick Doty: Nothing.
Sydney Collins: Nothing.
Future of Traditional Music
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Gus Applequist: You, you brilliantly just hit on, on kind of my closing question, and that is, um, what do you see in the future these musical art forms so rooted in the past? And what can we discover or relearn from engaging in, in these sounds, that, that might benefit us all going forward?
Derrick Doty: I think [00:46:00] overall, uh, when you just think about the, the tradition of it, people continuing to play this music, I, I think we're safe. I, I feel we're safe because I think people are always gonna be interested in this.
There's always gonna be somebody playing this music and interested in it and sharing it. Uh, the danger that we might have is losing it on a local level. Uh, we may not see it in our, our vicinity, our little community, uh, so we gotta keep cultivating it there. But yeah, I think, uh, you know, the, the music of the past, the songs of the past, I find that they're still relevant today, that people were concerned about the same issues 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 1,000 years ago, that we're concerned about today.
And, uh, you know, it's, it just, it's interesting to me.
Gus Applequist: Well, thank you so much for, uh, for first of all, bringing music into this space. It's, we've never in the history of this [00:47:00] podcast have we had, had a live musician. Oh, yeah. So, so thank you for being the first.
Derrick Doty: Well, thank you.
Gus Applequist: Um, and, and yeah, thanks for what you're doing to, to keep this art form alive and, um, and to, and to help it grow and, and be something new as well.
So thank you.
Derrick Doty: Thank you very much.
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Episode Reflection
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Derrick Doty: Well, I think we, we hit on, uh, many of the big things, uh, in Derrick's, like, life. I, I have a feeling there's like whole areas that we don't even know about.
Sydney Collins: Oh, I'm sure.
Gus Applequist: S- like the, the, uh, coffin making is, is something that's, um-
Sydney Collins: I feel like we should just have a whole episode of just on coffins for some reason.
And I don't know why, but-
Gus Applequist: Yeah, we were [00:48:00] discussing a, a previous podcast we produced- Yeah ... that, that had a similar topic at one point.
Sydney Collins: Cemeteries and-
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
What did you learn about the fiddle today?
Sydney Collins: I learned a lot. Um.
Gus Applequist: It's not a test. I-
Sydney Collins: I mean, I learned the difference between white hair and black hair bows.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Bravo.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: It's the little things.
Sydney Collins: It's the little things. So learned a lot.
Gus Applequist: I, I really appreciate people that care deeply about the past-
Sydney Collins: Yes ...
Gus Applequist: and help others care more about it, because sometimes I kinda struggle to really get invested in it, but but like every one of our guests, when we encounter a guest that is passionate about it, suddenly I find my passion for it, too.
Sydney Collins: Well, we've had a number of historians on, but we've never had someone who, How do I say this? Who celebrates history through music.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: We've had filmmakers. We've had journalists. We've had, [00:49:00] writers. We've had like all these different other- Yeah ... elements of history, but we haven't had anyone, like, musical history type of.
Gus Applequist: And, and it's, um, you know, one of those unique things about music is- Yeah ... is that it is a window, and, and a, I mean, yeah. You, you heard it for yourself in that interview. Like you could listen to what sounds were like and music was like many years ago. So yeah. Love it. It's a
Sydney Collins: fun episode.
Kansas Tattoo Pioneer Tale
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Sydney Collins: Well, speaking of history, I uncovered a fun little fact today- when I was trying to think of a segment. Cause I was going through like, okay, well, what are some kind of unknown people that you didn't know were like born in Kansas? And of course you have like MrBeast was technically born in Wichita. You have, you know, Grace- I didn't know that. Yeah, he was born in Wichita.
His, uh, 'cause his mom was in the military.
Gus Applequist: Oh, okay.
Sydney Collins: So I think she was stationed in Wichita. I think. Don't quote me on that. or if you know who Grace VanderWaal was. She, uh- Oh, yeah ... she's a musician. She was on America's Got Talent. She was born in kinda [00:50:00] the Lenexa area. Um, this one I did not know. Um, Ann Dunham, Barack Obama's mother, was born in Wichita.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, I didn't know this.
Sydney Collins: I
Gus Applequist: That's okay. That's okay.
Sydney Collins: Well, hopefully I got another one that you don't know. Okay. Do you know who Maude Wagner is?
Gus Applequist: I, I feel like I know that name, but I can't remember
Sydney Collins: Maybe. All right. This one's my favorite. This one has a whole story. So Maud Wagner. Wagner was born in 1877 in Emporia, Kansas to David Von Braun Stevens and Sarah Jane McGee. Uh, Wagner was an aerialist and contortionist working in numerous traveling circuses. She met Gus Wagner, a tattoo artist who described himself as the most artistically marked up man in America, while traveling the circuses and sideshows. Um, they met at the World's Fair in 1904.
Gus Applequist: This is the most Pixar thing of-
Sydney Collins: Oh, [00:51:00] it gets better. So they met at the World's Fair in 1904 where she was working as an aerialist. Um, she exchanged a romantic d- this is... I did read more onto this. This is hearsay. This, I don't know if this actually does-
Gus Applequist: It's romanticized sort of.
Yeah.
Sydney Collins: So she exchanged a romantic date with him for a lesson in tattooing And several years later, uh, they were married. Together they had a daughter, uh, Lovetta, um, who started tattooing at the age of nine and went on to become a tattoo artist herself. As an apprentice of her husband, uh, Wagner learned how to give traditional hokey-pokey, I haven't looked that one up yet, tattoos despite the invention of the tattoo machine, um, in 1891.
Gus Applequist: Oh. Maybe what we refer to today as like a jailhouse tattoo.
Sydney Collins: Maybe. And, uh, became a tattooist, um, tattoo artist, uh, herself. Uh, together the Wagners were two of [00:52:00] the last tattoo artists to work by hand without the aid of modern tattoo machines. Maude Wagner was the United States' first known female tattoo artist.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Sydney Collins: From here in Kansas.
Gus Applequist: I know another female tattoo artist in Kansas who's a good friend of ours in Stockton. Yeah. And so that makes, that makes me very happy- Yeah ... to know that there's a Kansas, uh, connection like that.
Sydney Collins: And here in, after leaving the circus, Maude and Gus Wagner traveled around the United States working both as tattoo artists and tattooed attractions in, uh, Vaudeville houses or, like, entertainment houses basically.
Yeah. county fairs and amusement arcades. Um, they are credited with bringing tattoo, artistry inland away from the coastal cities and towns where the practice had started. '
Gus Applequist: Cause of like sailors and stuff.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Ah, I'm connecting all sorts of dots.
Sydney Collins: There's so many dots.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, I, I want somebody to write a script about that.
That sounds interesting to me.
Sydney Collins: Like a documentary you [00:53:00] mean?
Gus Applequist: Uh, maybe. I'm thinking like a Pixar animated thing. That's, that's- Yeah ... I mean, that's cool.
Sydney Collins: It's cool.
Kansas Would You Rather
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Sydney Collins: I do have some would you rathers, Kansas edition, if you would like to... Just a couple of them.
Gus Applequist: Sure, let's do it.
Sydney Collins: All right. Would you rather fight one bison-sized prairie dog or 100 prairie dog-sized bison?
Gus Applequist: What kind of question is that?
Sydney Collins: I don't know.
Gus Applequist: 100 easily. I cannot imagine the horror that a pra-
Sydney Collins: Of, of a, of a prairie dog the size of a bison?
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I mean, those teeth. Like...
Sydney Collins: Well, I don't know.
Gus Applequist: I, yeah, I'm good. I, I know my answer. Okay.
Sydney Collins: All right. All right. Would you rather have a tornado siren as your alarm clock every day or a cicada outside your bedroom window every night?
Gus Applequist: Cicada. Well, okay, a singular cicada?
Sydney Collins: It just says a cicada outside your bedroom every night.
Gus Applequist: I sleep with a fan. That one.
Sydney Collins: I sleep with a fan. All right. Would you rather have Travis Kelce be your personal trainer or Ted Lasso [00:54:00] give you a pep talk every morning?
Gus Applequist: Oh, no. That's hard.
Sydney Collins: This one's my favorite.
Gus Applequist: Pro- probably Coach Lasso
Sydney Collins: Yeah ...
Gus Applequist: even though he's fictional.
Sydney Collins: He's fictional, but-
Wide: I,
Gus Applequist: if you can't tell, I'm not known for working out.
Sydney Collins: Oh, shoot. Um-
Gus Applequist: But Travis seems like a cool guy.
Sydney Collins: Would you rather have unlimited Casey's pizza or unlimited QuikTrip roller grill food?
Gus Applequist: I don't know if my stomach could handle either of those outcomes.
Sydney Collins: I would go Roller Grill 'cause at least- you have a variety.
Gus Applequist: There are more Casey's though.
Sydney Collins: There are more Ca- that's true.
Gus Applequist: We got a lot of Casey's in Kansas City.
Sydney Collins: A lot of Casey's. Oh, this one's, this one's not as fun, but would you rather have everyone you meet say you're not in Kansas anymore or ask if you know Dorothy?
Gus Applequist: I mean, they already do both, so, so-
Sydney Collins: I know. They already do both, so
I don't know if that's...
Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, yeah. That, that takes me back when I, when I was traveling earlier [00:55:00] this year, I had some pins made that-
Yep ...
said I would rather, um... Oh, we gotta get you to Kansas. Yeah. Get,
Sydney Collins: get you back to Kansas. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Um, before we wrap up, I just had, uh, those were great. Thank you, by the way. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: You're welcome.
Bridge Counting Challenge
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Gus Applequist: Um, just one, one quick challenge to our audience. Uh, this is something I've, I've been advocating a lot for the river here in Salina recently.
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah.
Gus Applequist: And so I've been, this has been on my mind, and so I just, I wanted to pose it to, to our audience. For a day, keep track of how many times you go over a bridge.
Ooh.
Because it's surprising. Or under a bridge. Over or under a bridge. The number of bridges in our world is insane- Yeah ... compared to what it once was, and Kansas is especially ridiculous.
Sydney Collins: Kansas has a lot.
Gus Applequist: When you count overpasses- Yeah ... it is insane.
So anyway, that's my little challenge for you. I don't know why. That's, that doesn't matter. Just, just do it, and tell me what, what you find. Um, I'm, I'm generally curious in, in how many you encounter. So you've done it.
Credits
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Gus Applequist: You've made it to the end- ... of another episode of Ask a Kansan. Thanks for listening.
Sydney Collins: Um, make sure to check [00:56:00] out our website, askakansan.com.
Um, you can find our library of over now, uh, you know, 80 episodes, um, links to our social media, um, our line of merch, um, and the Curious Kansan newsletter that features, um, Tanner's explorations throughout the state of Kansas.
Gus Applequist: And he, as we speak- Yeah ... he is working on such a cool story-
Sydney Collins: A very cool story
Gus Applequist: involving missile silos in Kansas. Yes. Uh, stay tuned. I, I'm super thrilled to see where that goes. So Ask a Kansan is a production of Fili Creative based here in Salina, Kansas.
Our show is produced by Tanner Colvin and Julie Mindrup. We are technically directed by Merlin Shippy. Graphic designs are by Austin Tone. We are edited by Bryan and Alan at Forge Podcasts.
Sydney Collins: Um, and thanks to Everyday Lights for the use of their song, uh, Horse Thief Canyon.
Gus Applequist: For everyone here at Ask a Kansan, thanks for tuning in. And remember, every Kansan has a story.
Sydney Collins: What's yours?
[00:57:00]