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Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
Episode three sixty of the Pilot to Pilot podcast takes off now. Did you know that eleven percent of accidents happen while taxiing? A Vemco insurance company believes education and awareness make a real difference, which is why they support safety programs and reward pilots who stay sharp. Pilot Pilot Podcast listeners can save 5%. Call (888) 635-4297 or visit ofemco.com/ 4297 dash owner for aircraft owners and visit ofemco.com/42 97 dash non owner for non owners today.
Justin:Premium credits are subject to underwriting guidelines, including of EIMCO recognized training and memberships, and the source is a VEMCO insurance company claims data 2023. Again, thank you so much VEMCO for being a sponsor. Please help the podcast out. Give them a call. Visit the website.
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Marci:Hi. This is Marci Veroni from Avento Insurance Company, and I'm happy to be here.
Justin:Aviation, what is going on? And welcome back to the Pilot Pilot Podcast. My name is Justin Siems, and I am your host. Today's episode is with Marcy Varoney from Avento. I met Marcy probably a couple months ago.
Justin:I was cold calling, cold emailing people like, hey, would you like to sponsor the podcast? Like, I believe in the company, blah blah blah. I would love to to partner with you. Marcy reached out almost immediately. We set up a meeting, and she was one of the only people that has asked me questions and felt like I was being interviewed in one of those moments of reaching out to sponsors, and I thought that was really cool.
Justin:The team at Evmco, everyone I talked to has been great. It is a company that I have only known, the people that work there for a short time, but I I believe in their product. I believe in the team that they have. And if I ever had a bad day, I would want someone like them to help me out. So I strongly believe in what they do and what they are doing.
Justin:Everyone needs insurance in the aviation world. Right? But go check out of them co. There's links below. There's a Pilot Pilot link on there as well.
Justin:It can help save you 5%, and we talk a little bit more about how you could save more money in your insurance in this episode. But, Marcy, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for being a trailblazer in aviation. Everything you've done for women in aviation and just pilots in general, it is awesome to see. And I'm so glad that you get to come on the podcast.
Justin:And you said it's your first one, which is hard to believe. Hopefully, it won't be the last one. But, aviation, I hope you're having a great day. Check out the Pilot's Pilot magazine. It is the greatest magazine slash coffee table book that you can buy.
Justin:I stand by that. It is I'm looking at them right now and it I have about a 100 of them in here getting ready to ship out and it just smells so good. You open it, it it it's all the senses all in one. But I wanna keep you much longer at Aviation, so I hope you're having a great day. Without any further ado, here's Marcy from FMCO.
Justin:Marcy, what's going on? Welcome to the Pilot to Pilot podcast.
Marci:Thank you so much for having me. This is my first time, so hope I don't cause you too much editing and from, hassle.
Justin:Well, thankfully, I don't do the editing anymore, but my editor Nick, he's like, oh my gosh. No. No. It's gonna be great. I we've talked before, and I know this is gonna be a fun podcast and and something cool to talk about.
Justin:I haven't talked to anyone in the insurance world before, so I'm excited to kinda dig deeper into that a little bit later. I do wanna say, I do follow on Instagram and you posted about being at the NFL draft. This has nothing to do about aviation, but I'm a big football fan. Played football at Ohio State. I'm a Panther fan, which they're okay.
Justin:But Hey. Going to the draft, that had to be a lot of fun. Right?
Marci:It was off the chain fun. I'm from Western Pennsylvania. I'm a Steeler fan through and through. I bleed black and gold. My sister, has season tickets.
Marci:She was able to get us tickets to the pit. So we were right up front, day two, and, man, it was yeah. It was fun. If you're a football fan, you've gotta go to the draft.
Justin:That's awesome. Were you happy with the picks or are you gonna call the GM be like, we need to do better next year?
Marci:No. I love them all, especially Max. I can't wait. Yeah. I'm excited about
Justin:the Awesome. Well, we are not here to talk about football as much as I would like to, but, we are here to talk about aviation. And I wanna focus on your story because you have a lot of like you've done a lot of cool things. Right? Like you you might not agree, but I mean, for me it's hard to to kind of like accept my flowers of what I've done in the industry.
Justin:Right? But Sure. It's really cool to talk to someone that's done some really really cool things and has helped women in aviation and has just been doing some really awesome things like I said. So I wanna start at the beginning. What was it about aviation?
Justin:How did you get into aviation in the first place?
Marci:I fell in love with a boy and eloped and ended up in seriously ended up here in Frederick, Maryland and I needed a job. I had just graduated from Bradford School in Pittsburgh with a paralegal certificate. So I wanted to be an attorney but I needed a job and a VEMCO had an opening for an assistant in their legal department. So I took it. And on the first day, my boss took me over to the airport for lunch and there was a hangar open and there was a guy in there building an airplane that I found out that he was going to build and fly and I thought that's insane.
Marci:People really build airplanes and then jump into them and that was, I don't know, that was like something sparked in me. I loved it. I thought it was cool. He let me buck a rivet. And I was like, if Vivemco will have me, I'll be here.
Marci:That's how I ended up here.
Justin:So before that, there was no aviation in your life at all? Like, never really looked at an airplane like, hey, that'd be cool to do.
Marci:Yeah. When I was about 11 years old, my dad always talked about Bob Hoover. And when I was about 11 or 12, Les Trobe Airport had a, a big air show and Bob Hoover was going to be there. And I went and I saw the show. It didn't spark like hey I want to be a pilot or anything like that, I just thought it was cool.
Marci:But years later when I was at Oshkosh I kind of stalked Bob Hoover as he was coming out of a porta john and got my picture taken with him so the steel factory or the box factory or the glass factory. No one went to college. I didn't know anything about, you know, scholarships, only wealthy kids or, you know, people on TV. I just knew my parents said you're not gonna work in a factory, you need a job. So I the only reason I went for the paralegal certificate is I love cars, and there was a guy in the other town that had a really cool Corvette, and I found out he was in the legal field.
Justin:So that's
Marci:why I went
Justin:to So if he could have a Corvette, then I need a Corvette too. Right?
Marci:Oh, yeah. I've had several now through the years.
Justin:That's awesome. Yeah. So following a boy ended up being a good thing for your career then, it looks like.
Marci:Yeah. Yeah. And I'm gonna be married to that guy for forty years, you know,
Justin:so So sometimes it works out. Right?
Marci:Yeah.
Justin:That's awesome. So when you get to a Vemco, you talked about how you're bucking a rivet, you see these planes, You kind of understood did you understand really what a VEMCO did? Like, when did you kind of fully grasp about like, one, how big the aviation world is and how you can be in the aviation world but not necessarily be an airline pilot or even a pilot itself. Right? You can do so many things in this industry.
Marci:Right. In the beginning, I I really didn't know. One of my first jobs was to transcribe what my boss was writing and I literally typed out 11/01/1966. And they made fun of me, took me to the airport and showed me an airplane, took me for a ride. I started taking lessons.
Marci:I passed ground school. I passed my written. I started taking lessons in a cub. Long story short, I ended up with autoimmune and was denied a medical, so I never finished. But I was so I like Pilots are so passionate and everybody I met was so passionate.
Marci:So I started in the legal department but right away I went to work, this is when ultralights were flying under Part 103, and we used to insure ultralights. So I started out in the ultralight department and then from there I moved to the experimental amateur built department, and then commercial, then turbine, then I became a sales underwriter. I was the first non pilot sales underwriter ever to get a job in that department. But that was cool because Avemco had a fleet of airplanes then, and my coworkers if you were in sales, you had to travel three times during the month to flight schools in our area. So we jump in a one eighty two and like, you know, fly to Manassas.
Marci:This was way before the airspace, the ABCD airspace that we have now and the issues down in DC. But you know, we would just hop from airport to airport and then come back to work, have lunch and then talk on the phone all day. I mean Yeah. It was a joy. And after you know twenty years of talking to 30 or 40 pilots a day, I have learned so much about airplanes from my policyholders.
Marci:I feel like, you know, I've I've I've flown in so many things with other people. I got to fly one eighty on on, with a stool kit in Alaska. Seaplanes, one eighty twos, all kinds of experimentals, an old f 33. I have four hours in a Cub. I just kind of fell in love with it.
Marci:I love cars. I like airplanes.
Justin:You've flown in more things than I have, I think, which is awesome. Yeah. Which is really cool. I mean, you've done some cool things. Yeah.
Justin:Can we talk a little bit about so you are starting the process of trying to get your ratings. Right? And you find out you can't do it because of the medical and it gets denied. Was that kind of like, you thought the door was gonna shut on you, you didn't think you could continue in the aviation world? Or was it just like, oh, oh, I'll just have to pivot and do something else?
Marci:I'll tell you honestly, I couldn't get a medical because I was diagnosed with a autoimmune and it put me in a wheelchair. And I was in the wheelchair for three months so I was really more concerned with health at that time than flying and then by the time I, got out of the wheelchair I, you know, this is back when I was living kind of paycheck to paycheck so coming up with money to even continue the lessons. But I wasn't I wasn't depressed or bummed out because I was around it every single day of my life. Like everybody flew, like all my coworkers flew, and we had airplanes and I was talking about airplanes all day so I never felt bad about it. Would I've liked to?
Marci:Yeah. Will I now? No. Now I can't remember anything, I'm too old to go back but it opened up opportunities for me to realize that there are other careers that you can get into, other positions without having your ticket. And you know, I just celebrated thirty nine years here, but I've had 17 different titles in those thirty nine years.
Justin:That's crazy.
Marci:There's opportunities and that's what I tell women. If you like math, we have in the insurance industry, not just aviation, you could become a actuary. The data is fascinating surrounding aviation. If you like people, you could become a marketer. If you like math, if you wanna be a detective, you could be an underwriter.
Marci:I mean, there's there's tons of careers.
Justin:Wanna start a pod you wanna talk, you can start a podcast. Right? Right. Yeah. Talk a little bit about you guys do some really cool things and but you also deal with kind of like people's worst days in aviation.
Justin:Right? Like whenever they come through with the policies, like it's like it's they're not excited to get paid because they would probably rather have their airplane that they previously were flying or they would rather have not had the accident or the incident. Two part question, does hearing those stories about You probably constantly are hearing the bad things of aviation because of that. Does that kind of turn you away or or feel like it turns anyone from your team away from aviation just like constantly being reminded of what can happen in the airplane? And then the second part of that question is, how is it talking with people that go through all that?
Marci:Well, first, no. It doesn't turn me away. It just makes me more determined to educate pilots about what we know. We've been in business for sixty five years. We have sixty five years of data that tells us you have to crawl before you walk and you have to walk before you run.
Marci:And so it just spurs us to educate the underwriters to then educate the pilot.
Justin:Yeah.
Marci:So the answer's no. And how is that? It's hard. It's hard to take a call on a Monday morning from somebody who's just lost somebody. That's the worst case scenario.
Justin:Yeah.
Marci:But it's also hard, when a pilot calls you know, especially like a beach 18 or something that you know we there's not a ton ton of them around and somebody totals one and you have a grown man crying on the telephone. I learned empathy a long long time ago and that's something that I talk to my underwriters about. Know, there by the grace of God go I, we never say what a dumb Pilot trick or how stupid. If I hear those words you know I'm I'm gonna candy on the spot. I mean it because it's never just one thing but no, it just makes me more determined to bring value to our clients.
Marci:I mean, I'm so blessed. I'm in the position to decide who Avento sponsors and who we do business with. And I specifically choose people that I know are empathetic and that are all about safety and wanna educate people about safety because it's it's been my passion for thirty nine years, Justin. Yeah.
Justin:And you you can tell. I mean, based on talking to you, we've talked a few times in the past and you were the only person who would have reached out to for people to sponsor the podcast that asked me questions. And I like, hey, wanna get to know you. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Let's do this.
Justin:I love it. So I thought that was really cool that you did that and you could tell that you really care about your brand. Like I care about my brand a lot too, but it's like you want to work with good people that you can trust to to uphold to your brand and the standards that you have for that for what you all built there, which I think is just really really cool.
Marci:Well, will tell you, you used the word that I love to hear and that's quality. And and I say that because after all the years of research, I can tell you that, I call them superior pilots or scary pilots. A superior pilot cares about quality. In their training, they seek higher training. They don't just get a sign off or a flight review.
Marci:They go beyond the minimums. They look for quality in their maintenance, in who they hire to do their maintenance. They listen. They're patient. And, you kind of have those qualities so
Justin:appreciate that.
Marci:Thank you. Yeah.
Justin:Good. I love it. I welcome it. I do wanna talk about your your career a little bit because I think it's really cool that you have kind of just taken so many positions at the same company. A lot of times you see people bounce around or maybe one I'm sure there's been some promotions that you wanted that you may not you might not have gotten at the time and you're like, oh, maybe I should do something else.
Justin:But you stuck it out and you stayed where you are. Now, it's not saying that everyone needs to stick it out and stay where they are. It's also good to go somewhere else and grow and come back. But I think it's really cool that you have been at the same company for so long and are just doing so many cool things and have done so many different jobs. Can you talk about kind of going up the corporate ladder or can you talk about what it was like, in the beginning which you mentioned a little bit, but was your goal to continue to build here?
Justin:You sound like a very loyal person. I know people from Pittsburgh are extremely loyal. I've met a lot of them. They're a different breed. Or are you kind of just like, I'm here, you know.
Justin:I'm I'm gonna do this and see where I can take it.
Marci:Well, I will say I think coming from Pittsburgh does have a lot to do with where I am today because I was taught you be thankful you have a job, you show up every day. And my sister and I were the only girls in our whole neighborhood and we were a big sports town and my dad used to say, You're a girl, you're gonna have to try twice as hard. And that I think is like some, I'm sure a psychiatrist could say something about it but that's like a, I mean it's like a record in my head my whole life. It has helped me and it has really hurt me. Hurt me in that I do have a lot of autoimmune that I know I brought on myself.
Marci:But it helped me because it propelled me from a temporary assistant to the senior vice president of this company and I will tell you it definitely wasn't this kind of, it was Yeah. And in the beginning, in the eighties, I worked here when people had just stopped smoking cigarettes at their desk where I had to wear pantyhose every day and every boss was a man. And we just knew our place. But I worked hard and really liked what we were doing and I think men saw that I was street savvy, I think that's the way to say it. I wasn't a political animal, I was never one of those people that I'm nice to you just because I think I'm gonna go somewhere, but I trained a lot of men that were promoted above me and I I love men so I don't want you to think I'm one of these like
Justin:a Oh no.
Marci:Yeah. I did and there came a point in time where I thought, I am so done. I'm working my rear end off here and this guy just got promoted. So I went and I was gonna get a job at Harley Davidson. My husband builds motorcycles and
Justin:Oh cool.
Marci:Had a car lot. So I knew a lot about motorcycles. So I went over there, the guy offered me the job. I came to Avemco the next day, I was going to put in my notice, and we had just hired this underwriter, and I didn't know it, but he was promoted to our president the day before, and he walked over to me and said, Why are you toiling around in this department? And I said, because I'm a girl.
Marci:And he said, what? And I said, well, everybody knows that you don't get promoted here. And he said, well, I'm gonna promote you and I'm going to put you in charge of an agency. We did business with USAA, they used to send us all of their aviation leads, and this guy put me in charge of that when I was in my twenties, and that cemented it for me. From there on, I thought, you know what, I can do more, and so just man, any opportunity I had, I took it.
Marci:I went to every training, every I read every book, I talked to everybody I could, I networked my rear end off, and then I found a magazine one day and found out there's other women in aviation. Any trade show I ever went to, was always the only woman. Me and one other lady who ended up being my best friend. But I thought, I was shocked. And, that's how I segue into that's how I ended up, learning about women in aviation.
Marci:But, should I just segue into that?
Justin:Oh, I'll just ask another question real quick.
Marci:Fire away.
Justin:This kind of goes with my wife. My wife is or like just anyone in a business like aviation or medicine like my wife, but some or what you do, something where you have to work so hard. Did you ever feel like you had to choose between family and work or kind of the dynamic of that? Like is it was it tough for you to put in the time away from family to continue climbing the corporate ladder? Did you ever struggle with that?
Marci:Yes. And but I was never gonna have kids. I love dogs. I have two boxers, I've always had boxers, my husband always had cars, and we were a happy couple, and then after eighteen years of marriage, I found out I was pregnant. It was like God intervention.
Marci:But I will tell you at that point I was traveling for a Vemco almost nonstop. And yes, with the guilt, not from my husband but from my Italian mother and from myself. Because Marcy Lynn, if you wake up early you could clean the house, do the the the the then go do that, then come home. And I was failing at it miserably. But my husband, the fact that we had our own car lot, he could take my son to work.
Marci:And, he's really the one, if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be where I was because, yeah. Women that say that, oh, you can balance, I need the book because I I had trouble with it. I really really did. But I will say having a strong partner and just saying, hey, need help. That that helps.
Justin:Yeah. I would definitely agree. It's it's difficult when a husband and the wife both work and you wanna raise your kid and you wanna do the best you can for your kid, but you also wanna be as successful as you possibly can. So it's
Marci:like Right.
Justin:It's really difficult. And then I think there's also studies done that's like when kids see their parents do what they love to do, that is actually very important for them as well. So it's just like a teeter totter. Know, you're like, do I do more here? Do I do more here?
Justin:And you can never do enough on each side. I find myself doing that as well.
Marci:It's tough.
Justin:Yeah. I know you mentioned You you told me before we talked, it's like that was I need to take a break. Need to take a break or schedule more time off. I told you how I just constantly thinking about this stuff. But even before we had our kid, my kid actually made me kinda calm down a little bit.
Justin:Realized that I wanted to be home more and try to to just be more present. And with my previous job I was gone seven days at a time it was just too much. Was like, can't do this anymore. So, it's crazy when people say kids change everything, but they really do and you don't really understand that. It sounds cliche, but once you have a kid, it's just like, woah, okay.
Justin:That's true. That's right. Alright. Amen. It is very very right.
Justin:But I do want to segue into women in aviation too because you also talked a little bit about it in the corporate life as well. But what have you seen change in just like the broad, you know, the thirty nine years I believe you said you've in Abemco. What have you seen change for the better? And when did you start seeing that change?
Marci:Well, I will tell you I started seeing it seven years ago, eight years ago, so before COVID. Mhmm. I was, I said earlier, I would go to these shows, even even Oshkosh, I would go to these trade shows and there may be another woman in the booth. Last year, not only were there women in the booth, there were brown people in the booth, there were people from other countries in the booths. Mean that has changed.
Marci:Normally like I know here at Avemco for years our customer was a male American, 57 years of age, had two cars, like I could rattle off everything. That's changed. There's more women, there's more people of color, there's more folks of different nationalities. That part has changed and I've seen that in the last seven years. And I think it's pretty cool.
Marci:And I think social media had had a lot to do with it because like growing up, like I said, I've never heard of anything other than Bob Hoover because dad liked him. But today, you can get on any podcast, you can watch a podcast about a woman who's been in an aviation insurance company. I think that has a lot to do with it. And I will also tell you that COVID had a lot to do with it because one of my jobs here is to listen to the telephone conversations. And we got calls from so many people that said, I've always wanted to learn to fly.
Marci:I never had the time, the money, da da da da da da excuse, but you know what? I might be dead tomorrow, so I'm gonna learn. We saw a lot of that. We saw a lot of, we sell a policy to people that build airplanes. I saw that book of business almost double overnight.
Marci:So that's the changes I've seen and for me it's all for the better.
Justin:Yeah. Absolutely. I it's crazy to me that it was just seven years ago that you finally saw change, right? Like I mean, it it feels like it should have been way earlier than that. And I think the statistics are proven to that too.
Justin:I think that since COVID, you know, there's been such a steady increase of women or diverse diversity, I'll say, in aviation, which has been great. I think it has to do with, like you said, even the Internet, Instagram, podcast, YouTube. Just Right. Having someone be able to see someone that looks like them be a pilot. I've interviewed a lot of people before and they all say, for that aren't the standard white pilot.
Justin:They're all like, well I just needed to see someone that looked like me do it so that I knew that I could do it which is just massive for the industry and I think it's gonna be great.
Marci:And also the fact that airlines, promoted, you know, we need pilots and started you know Propel and Aviate and all the all the schools. Mean I lost one of my best underwriters. She walked in here one day and said, I said tell me you're not leaving. I could just tell on her face. But she won a scholarship for over $75,000 to aviate program and left me.
Marci:She's doing great now. She's in the right seat of a CRJ I think. But so that didn't didn't hurt either.
Justin:It had to hurt, but then it's like a good thing like, I'm so happy you're doing your dreams, but like Right. Please stay. I like you. Please stay.
Marci:You flew over the building the other day.
Justin:No way.
Marci:Yeah. So it's pretty cool, but
Justin:That is really cool. So, yeah, it's been great. And specifically in women aviation, how have you seen that change? I haven't really talked to anyone that is involved or has been involved with women in aviation. I know it's been a big passion project for you as well.
Justin:So take the time to talk about kind of the goals, what the history is, and what they've been doing.
Marci:So, well, Women in Aviation was founded by Doctor. Peggy Chambrian, and she ran that organization for thirty years. And she just felt a need for women to get together because, of course, there weren't a lot of female pilots. But I got involved when I got a call from Dick Koenig who was the he ran Flying Magazine. He was on the board and he said, we're looking for board members who are in the recreational general aviation area.
Marci:We think you'd be you'd be great. So I go in for the interview and Justin, there's two dozen women and I thought, there's no way I'm getting this. There was an astronaut. There was a woman who ran a flight school. There was a woman, a female pilot who started a watch company, and then Marci Veroni from Avento.
Marci:So I thought, I'm not getting this. So I walked in there and they said, you know, if you were in charge, what would you do? And I started, I wanna say we had 15,000 members and now it's grown to over 20,000. We have chapters all over the world. We have I don't wanna give the wrong number, but we I wanna say we hit $17,000,000 mark on scholarships.
Marci:Don't Yeah. Don't quote me on that one.
Justin:We're gonna say it's a lot.
Marci:But Yeah. And what's great, what I love I love the ninety nines. What I love about women in aviation is it's not just for pilots. It's for any female or male that has an interest in aviation and is looking for a career. We mentored.
Marci:There's a big mentoring program. There is, networking and scholarship availability in the conferences. The conference has grown from 900 people to close to 5,000 6,500 last year.
Justin:That's crazy.
Marci:It is crazy. And it but it's so cool. We come back, we, my team, I take about four women, we come back and and men can't stand us when we get back. It's like out
Justin:of our way. Exhausted too. It's like going to Oshkosh. You come back from Oshkosh and
Marci:you're just like, wow. I'm exhausted. Yeah. Well, yeah. I'm I'm usually yeah.
Marci:I'm exhausted by the end. But I love Oshkosh too. Yeah. It's just yeah.
Justin:It's a great time. No, it's awesome. Women aviation. I didn't know they had a a really strong mentorship program. I mean, makes a of sense.
Marci:Big time.
Justin:I've talked so much about how important it is to have a mentor. They can just lead you right down the right path. Right? They'd be like, hey, I mean like most people do this, but like I know this one person that does this. It could be a good opportunity.
Justin:Or they could be like, hey, I've heard about those people. I've heard about that airplane. You don't wanna fly that plane. Like it's just bad news. Right.
Justin:So having someone that can just guide you and and help you make, not necessarily make the decision for you because you have to make your own decisions, but someone just there to to offer a little bit of advice. And just be like, hey, I think this might be best for you. You're like, oh, oh, didn't think
Marci:about that. That's great that you're willing to do that. And again, that goes back to a superior pilot. That's one of the traits. They have the ability to walk over and say, hey, you know, the winds are kinda, high today.
Marci:What's your personal minimums? And like, have a conversation versus sit back and say, look at this guy getting ready to take off in this crazy stuff. Right.
Justin:It happens. Exactly. You're not wrong. What's going on, guys? It's Justin.
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Justin:If want you a clearer picture of what that plan looks like, this is worth your time. You can register allworthfinancial.com/justin. That's allworthfinancial.com/justin. Give me a little bit information about Avento. I mean, people know what Avento is, what you do.
Justin:But talk about the history of it. Talk about how it started and then how you've seen it grow in the thirty nine years you've been there.
Marci:Wow. So Avimco started in 1961 and, Avimco at the time stood for aviation, a v, employee, e m c o company, aviation employee company and it was founded by, I know two military generals from World War two were involved the Wow. In the beginning of Avemco, so but these guys were geniuses because what they derived back in 1961, we have we still use, it's, you know, I call it our secret sauce. We've just, you know, tweaked it here and there. Avemco is for the recreational pilot that uses the airplane for pleasure and or business.
Marci:We ensure pilots who own airplanes, rent or borrow airplanes, build airplanes, flying clubs, seaplanes, gliders, you name it. If it's piston powered, we do it.
Justin:I love that. I just can't like, thinking about a company that's been a long been around for so long. It is very hard to one, run a company and two, keep it going for as long as you have. And you've seen it all. Has there been kind of rough points in in the in the past, in the history?
Justin:Has there been I mean, was 09/11 tough for that when just people didn't necessarily have the money or the wait, financial crisis when people stopped spending money? The, other kind of depressions in the stock market that may have happened with Are there ebbs and flows? Does it kind of follow the the typical cycle of aviation or is it a little bit
Marci:I mean, through the years, the aviation and not just aviation insurance, insurance in general. You know, you have your your peaks in your valleys. Yes, I've rode through I think three or four of them now, but we always come back and I think it's because pilots are passion, passionate, and if you're passionate about what you do, even if fuel is $8 a gallon, you're gonna find a way to make it work. And our pilots are definitely passionate about what they do. We were the only time I was ever like were not worried, but thought, oh, am I gonna have to find another job is when we got bought by another company, in the nineties.
Marci:But it was the first time I had ever been through a merger, acquisition, anything like those lines. And right away, it, I loved it because what used to take us, you know, four different groups and five different computers we were able to do in one shot. You can call me today and I can quote you, write the policy, send you the policy, send the certificate to the bank all in like ten minutes. And that used to be like a four day process. Yeah.
Marci:So that was, you know, I I just had to live through one of those to see, okay, I get this. And that's, you know, business one zero one when you start Yeah. Learning why the company does what it does. But we are owned by Tokyo Marine HCC, which is one of the largest specialty insurers in the world. And so our financial backing is, you know, we pay our claims because we have the finance and the and the ability to do it.
Marci:And I think that's why we've been in business for so long. There's a company called AM Best that rates you based on financial stability and how you pay your claims. We've had the A plus plus rating for decades and that's why Avento is where we are. That and I wanna believe we only deal with well, I know I do. I only wanna deal with people that are what I consider superior pilots, with good ethics.
Justin:Yeah. How would you say, you know, the market has changed in the in the insurance world? Obviously, aviation is very expensive. People look back on it and they think that it was cheap. But I mean, it was still expensive back then.
Justin:Right? Like it was never a cheap thing that everyone could just go do on their own. But prices have gone I mean, every one eighty two now to buy one eighty two. An old one's like $250,000, $200. It's just like it blows your mind.
Justin:Right? But has insurance changed with that? Like how has prices changed? How have you seen things change, financially in, the insurance and aviation world?
Marci:Well, I wanna it's kind of relative to everything else in life. I mean, I first started, you could you could buy a one eighty two for $20
Justin:Mhmm.
Marci:And now you can't. So and back then you could probably insure that thing for $500 and now it's closer to 18 to $2,300 depending on the value. Two. And and again, that's you know, that's a mid eighties model. So insurance has gone up just like prices have gone up, but it's people don't I I I don't wanna say people don't mind, but people people pay for what they want.
Marci:And we haven't lost a ton of business because prices have gone up or anything along those lines. It's consistently consistent. If if you wanna fly, you're gonna pay for it. Yeah. Just like if you like to boat or if you like to ride motorcycles, you're you're gonna pay for your passion.
Justin:Yeah. It's an expensive hobby. Right? Yeah. I know.
Justin:It does. You know, every single year at Oshkosh, right, there's always this one massive thunderstorm. It just seems like one day. Is that to me, that seems like it's an insurance company's nightmare because you have so many planes there. Like if a tornado went through Oshkosh during the that would be that would have to be a bad day for you guys.
Justin:Right?
Marci:That's a great that's a great question. But insurance companies buy insurance for catastrophic losses like that. So it's called reinsurance.
Justin:Yeah.
Marci:So we do have a lot of of airplanes up there and my sister company does too. They insure most of those warbirds that you see sitting down there. So as a whole, but we buy insurance to protect us in case God forbid something like that happens.
Justin:That's good to know. Because I always talk to my friends like, dude, if this is like bad, like, I don't know if we're gonna be flying planes anymore. Like, that's a lot of money out there. I used to fly a lot of reinsurance people when I flew at my previous company. We would always fly to Bermuda.
Justin:Apparently, Bermuda is a very very big reinsurance industry. So Yes. We I learned a lot about reinsurance when I when I was flying for my last company. So, it's really interesting that you say that. It makes a lot of sense.
Justin:Right? Like insurance needs insurance. Right?
Marci:Right. Makes the world go round.
Justin:Yeah. And then if you're selling a product, you have to you're buying the product too. So it makes a lot of sense. You gotta use it. Yeah.
Justin:It's what what are you able to do and what you need insurance for? It's one of those things like we talked about before. It's something that you don't ever really wanna use. Right? Like it's just a natural expense.
Justin:But can you talk about what happens when you do use it? So, I mean, whether it's a bad bad day, whether someone just like, hey, like someone clipped my wing, what do I do? Sure. Can you talk about the process that a pilot goes through, when they pick up the phone and they call you or call someone
Marci:from So your what will happen is a claims adjuster will be assigned to that person, and sometimes they just take care of it at their desk. So if it's just a ding wing and the policyholder can just send a photograph of the damage, They will, you know, determine what the payment is and just take care of it like that. If it's something that's, you know, catastrophic, then we may even hire outside, claims adjusters to come and adjust the claim. And they walk, I mean as far as the policy holder's concerned, they walk them through every step of what's happening. Policy holder at the time of loss would have to prove to us that the airplane had a current annual and that their medical and their flight review were current.
Marci:And if not, a lot of times we have wording in the policy that says you have so long to get it done or some people, some folks have to get a medical and a flight review every year, some don't. It just depends on the the warranty and the policy, but, it's pretty straightforward, as far as the adjuster will will walk. I'm I'm hesitating because I'm I don't I don't No, you're foolish. Involved in the claims all the time. But Yeah.
Marci:That's what happens. And then as far as when it gets back to underwriting, then we determine if we're gonna renew the person terms as is. If we are going to renew the person and take away their claim free discount. Because we do give discounts the longer your claim's free, the more discounting is involved in your policy. Or if we're gonna non renew the person and say, we're not interested in continuing the to insure this airplane.
Justin:Yeah. Has there been, you know, in the years that you've worked there, has there been a phone call or a case or just someone that you've dealt with that's really stuck with you, a story or like, anything with, either a claim or just someone that you have met through this, that was a customer? Anything that's really stuck with you throughout your time there?
Marci:Yes. When light sport aircraft first came out, there were we had a lot of losses and I think pilots weren't used to how, lightly wing loaded aircraft flew, and I think that's why. So we started, demanding that you get at least ten hours of, instruction. But I had a, airline pilot who was retiring and buying one, and he had tens of thousands of hours and I said, I'm gonna require that you go out and get five hours of dual plus a flight review in the airplane. And man, he he was like, I've been flying longer than you've been alive, blah blah blah.
Marci:And I said, you know, either it's either this or I'm gonna have to turn you down. And he said, I'll do it. And I hung up the phone and I thought, man, I hope this isn't gonna come back to bite me because he just didn't have a good attitude. And then two weeks later, he called me and he said, I just wanna thank you because I was humbled in the first hour of flight. And I was like, wow, I've never had anyone call back and apologize to me and I thought that was really cool.
Marci:And then, about four months later, I got a call from claims that that particular airplane was found crashed and no pilot, they never found the pilot, but they found the airplane. So I don't know whatever happened or or what they never found him. So we don't know if he just like crashed the airplane and walked away. Yeah. We don't know, we know he he didn't perish.
Marci:We know he was going through a divorce, but that's all we know. I I weird one.
Justin:Yeah. Absolutely. I will when you brought up the fact that Airline Pilot, my first thought was, oh no. Because know how we how we are. Right?
Justin:We think we can fly everything. We've flown it before. We can do it. But there's such a difference between flying what I fly now is seven thirty seven and flying a one seventy two, a one eighty. It's like, I mean, just how high but how how high you are above the ground, where to flare, just things happen differently in those airplanes.
Justin:Just because, yeah, I have thousands of hours doesn't mean I can go fly a one seventy two today safely or a two zero six. And it's important and it's hard for for us to realize that because it's like it's just an airplane. Right? We can go fly it. We have flown it before.
Justin:What like nothing's different. But then the first time you get in there, you're like, oh, wow. I feel a little bit uncomfortable. Is You
Marci:know, when I first started, it was hard to talk to you know, an airline pilot is an airline pilot, you know, and and they have these hours and they have all this experience. And they would say to me, honey, I've been flying longer than you've been alive. And my voice always sounded younger than I was. But the guy that sat beside me in the underwriting department was a retired airline pilot and he said, think about it. This guy has somebody telling him the weather, doing the weight and balance check for him, ta da ta da ta da.
Marci:You these pilots now have to do all of that on their own in a smaller airplane, and basically everything that you just said. So he said, know, you just you know what you're saying, you know, stand up to it. And Yeah. Were little things that I that I learned from underwriting airline pilots. We love them.
Justin:Yeah. Airline pilots are a rare breed. That's for sure. Right? I mean, they're great.
Justin:Like, I tell you want them to be when you're when they're operating your plane, want them to be confident, want them to know what they're talking about. But when you get back into small planes, definitely need some instruction. You definitely need some help.
Marci:So True. True. True.
Justin:Yeah. Absolutely. One thing I was surprised about. Right? Like you guys are a big company.
Justin:Ovemco is a massive company. But in talking with everyone I've talked to, it feels like a very small company. Like it feels like still like a family owned like it feels like you don't lose people in, and people aren't numbers. People aren't just buying, you know, like they're buying into the family almost is what it
Marci:like. Was
Justin:that kind of on purpose? Is that kind of what you modeled it and how you want it to be?
Marci:You know, absolutely for me. 60% of our workforce has been here ten years or longer. And, I think that's a testimony to what we do. I tell the underwriters all the time, there's less than 200 people in the world that know how to underwrite aviation directly and you're one of them. That makes you special.
Marci:So I I try to have that kind of culture resonate around here and we are small. There's only 34 of us here in this building. But we've been around for so long. Wells Fargo is down the street and they have this, you know, gigantic building and when people come to visit me, they think that that building is of EMCO's. It's not.
Marci:Ours is smaller, but we do a lot. We are a mighty group.
Justin:What, what kind of safety things have you seen change for the better of aviation? Whether it's to save people money on insurance or whether it's just, you know, as years have gone by, we have figured out some I would like to think we figured out how to do things a little bit safer, and try to be safer. Is there anything that comes to mind that either like a law was passed or just like a year that you were like recognize like, hey, we switched from being not very safe to being extremely safe. Like, is there anything that sticks out to you when we when we talk about that?
Marci:You know, I've seen it. If you ask me, I would say we're consistently consistent. I mean, we consistently 35% of our losses are landing. That has been consistent since the eighties. Ground claims 32%, taxi 10%, flight 17%.
Marci:That has not changed no matter the year. So what I see is consistently consistent. There's we usually adjust probably a claim a day. As far as the safety message though, I think the FAST team, the FAA wings program, I think that the folks that are passionate about safety, the John and Martha Kings and you know, a lot of people that I try to do business with, you know, the Brian Schiffs and the Jeff Straits, John and Greg from Flight Safety Detectives just getting out there and talking about this. Pilots who consistently train have better loss records than those that just go get a flight review.
Marci:Pilot that learn to fly in tailwheel aircraft have two and a half times better accident rates records than those that learn in fixed. I mean, these are just things that I always say consistently consistent. I'm gonna have a t shirt made. Consistently consistent.
Justin:I like You
Marci:know, glass is, you know, was great when when the glass cockpits came out, but again then people had their heads down. But the taxi accidents didn't change. I just think we talk about it more. I just wish more people would elect to do something above and beyond the flight review. Right now, I was just in an underwriting meeting before I came in here, only 40% of our policyholders take advantage of safety discounts that we offer.
Marci:If you go out and do anything above and beyond a flight review, I'll give you 5%. If you go out and do something else, I'll give you another five. And less than less than 40% take advantage of it. 40% take advantage of it. So.
Justin:Does that surprise you? I mean, it seems like it's very surprising, right? Like if you can save money, everyone wants save money, right?
Marci:Right. Because premiums are too high.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I wonder why. I wonder if it's just like a time thing, like a lot of people just just budget their time just to go fly their plane and then they're like, oh, I'm safe enough. I can do this.
Justin:Right? But, know, a good pilot is always learning, and it's important to do that. It's like airline pilots have to go through training all the time. We're always doing CBTs. Should be no different for for liner one eighty two.
Justin:We're just
Marci:I wish.
Justin:Doing some cool
Marci:yeah. I have
Justin:a lot
Marci:of military pilots that talk to me about, you know, they're so used to standard operating procedures and when they come out and they hire different CFIs, you know, they've said to me, wow. It's it's so different in the GA world. And I kinda wish it was more standard operating procedures like, you know, Civil Air Patrol. I I love their checkout. It's so it's so beefy and meaty.
Marci:Yeah.
Justin:Having knowing that so where I fly, you know, there's fifteen, sixteen, I don't know the exact number, but thousand pilots. And knowing that when you get in the same cockpit, in the same you you're both sitting next to each other, you know that we each know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. And you can just trust them to do that. And that's what the SOPs are, and they help keep you safe. And it would be nice if, you know, there were SOPs everywhere.
Justin:There were SOPs that you're at your mom and pop flight school or ATP, which I think there is more of that. I think they are training more to that now because I've seen how it's been helpful. But just continue to see that implemented. And, I think one of my friend, I think it was Josh Flowers, he runs at a YouTube account. He wanted to really work on AQP for people in one that fly one seventy twos or two o sixes or just a general aviation world.
Justin:So that would be another cool thing that we could see that could possibly help it out.
Marci:I agree. And and I know NAFI's working really hard. SAFE is working really hard. There's a lot of groups out there so.
Justin:Yeah. Well you mentioned a lot of airplanes before. Do you have either a favorite airplane or when when you see something come through is it like, oh man, that's so cool to get to fly that plane?
Marci:Man, you know what? I love low and slow hands down. J three Cub built in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania, my absolute favorite airplane.
Justin:That's awesome. Is there a hardest airplane to insure? Is there one that's just like, oh no.
Marci:There's you know what? There's nothing hard to insure. It's just the overall, you know, a low time person in a high valued or a high performance aircraft, that's that's hard. Yep. You can't always say yes.
Marci:I wish I could help you, but I can't. It goes back to crawl, walk, run.
Justin:Yep. Absolutely. How was I gonna say? I was gonna mention doctors because my wife's a doctor too and I she I know a couple of people. Have we seen is there any I don't know.
Justin:I'm not gonna ask that question. But for some more specific toward of Vemco and like we talked about before, there's a lot of people that are in aviation but don't necessarily want to fly. If someone's listening to this right now and they're like, they're graduating college or maybe they just don't like the job they're at now and they want to get involved in aviation. What would if they wanna work at a VIMCO, who would they reach out to? What are you looking for and, how could they get a job?
Marci:Boy, I'm always looking for somebody with a great attitude. I believe you can train, attitude not attitude, you can't train attitude. So I'm always looking for that, but anybody with an insurance background. I find it's easier to, hire insurance folks and teach them aviation than it is to hire a pilot and teach them insurance.
Justin:Mhmm.
Marci:Sometimes because pilots are are so excited about the airplanes they wanna try to ride it. That's not every pilot but so I'm looking for anybody that has an interest in aviation or an interest in insurance and a good attitude, really. That's what I'm after.
Justin:Well, love it. Marcy, I appreciate your time. I appreciate you coming on the podcast. Thank you for sponsoring the podcast. It's been a lot of fun working with you in the the month or so that we worked together.
Justin:Thank you. Look forward to meeting you at Oshkosh, hopefully. I'm guessing you'll be there, but there's always gonna be a time for someone, to come on the show and, proudly have the Avamco name attached to it. So thank you so much for that. And I really appreciate your time, and, thank you so much.
Marci:You're welcome. Thank you.
Justin:That's a wrap on today's podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate your time. Check out the links below. You know, you can go to the Abemco website.
Justin:You can save some money on your insurance. Just fill out the forms. And, also, thank you for all all the other sponsors. I appreciate everything you do. Aviation, I hope you're having a great day.
Justin:And as always, happy flying. The Pilot to Pilot Podcast is brought to you by Ground School from the finer points, the indispensable training app for new and experienced pilots. Visit learnthefinerpoints.com backslash Justin to save 10% off your first year.