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Have you ever looked at a situation you’re facing in utter disbelief and thought, "How will I ever get over this?" Lysa TerKeurst understands. After years of heartbreak and emotional trauma, she realized it’s not about just getting over hard circumstances but learning how to work through what she has walked through. Now, she wants to help you do the same. That’s why Lysa teamed up with her personal, licensed professional counselor, Jim Cress, alongside the Director of Theological Research at Proverbs 31 Ministries, Dr. Joel Muddamalle, to bring you "Therapy & Theology." While Lysa, Jim and Joel do tackle some really hard topics, you’ll soon find they're just three friends having a great conversation and learning from each other along the way.
Lysa TerKeurst:
Well, today we're bringing you a very short Therapy & Theology. And the reason it's short is we intentionally want to give you something to hold onto. When you are facing situations, you just think, I don't know if I'm going to make it, like this is hard. In Therapy & Theology, we talk a lot about hard situations, hard relational dynamics, hard life dynamics, and sometimes we may just hit a day where you need something to return to where three people who care deeply about you shares just a nugget wisdom of what we do. When we hit those spots, we think we're just not going to make it because we want you to know you are going to make it. So of course I'm here with Dr. Joel Muddamalle and licensed professional counselor, Jim Cress. So, who wants to go first on those days you think, I'm not going to make it. Let's just give our listeners a gift, you are going to make it and here's why.
Joel Muddamalle:
You're not alone. You're not alone. And you're part of a story, and that story is the story of God's people. And there's a long history of people that have felt the exact same way that you're feeling. I felt it, and the both of you guys have felt it. And there's one scripture reference that I go back to often this is at the epicenter of the people of Israel's just torment and torture in Egypt under the oppression of Pharaoh. And I think they felt like that, I'm not going to make it out. This is horrific. This is what Moses tells us, in Exodus two or three verse seven, it says, "In the Lord said, I have observed the misery of my people in Egypt and I've heard them crying out because of their oppressors. I know about their sufferings and I have come down to rescue them from the power of the Egyptians." So, those three descriptive words that God sees, that God hears, and that he knows, and that those three realities let us know that he is a God who acts as well. And so, we can know that's true about God.
Lysa TerKeurst:
I love that Joel, because I think it's so comforting for us to know that God is not just omniscient, omnipotent, but he's personal. And when he looks at people, he doesn't just see a crowd, he really not only sees but hears and cares deeply for the individual hearts. So, mine will dovetail right off of that because I think it's crucial on this macro level to understand those principles of how big God is and how intimate God is at the same time. I want to go to Mark chapter 14. I go here often because when I was in some of the lowest moments of my life, laying in my bed, weeping, taking my arm and just out of habit, putting my hand across and realizing there's no one else in my bed. And I used to feel so safe, bedtime used to be my most favorite time to go and just lay in my bed in.
It was just like the day was wrapping up and this was my safe little cocoon. And I had a person, my person there beside me. And so, it was a massive adjustment for me to get used to the dark, for me to get used to the silence, for me to get used to feeling afraid, for me to get used to just coming home and there not being anybody there. And so, that was a lot. So, I just wanted to know, does Jesus get it? Because if I know that Jesus gets it, the depth of this pain, then I'll be able to trust his advice. I'll be able to trust his teaching on a different level. It's hard to trust somebody's teaching when you're not sure if they really have ever experienced the depth of the hurt and the pain that you have. And so, in Mark chapter 14, right before Jesus goes to the cross, he's in the Garden of Gethsemane and he says that his soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death.
And here's so fascinating to me. This is Jesus. And I used to think if I only knew why this was happening to me, that it would ease the ache of my sorrow. And yet here's Jesus who had access to all answers, I mean he was full divinity and absolute humanity. He was very much sin less but absolutely sinned against. And he had access to all answers, and yet he was overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. So, it made me realize even if I had the answers as to why this was happening, and how long was it going to go on, all of those questions, those answers wouldn't comfort me because I would still sit in the source of my sorrow. Because sorrow isn't comforted by the answers, you might not even the answers that you were given even if you could get them. And then Jesus goes on to say, "God, everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me."
And that was also mind-blowing to me because I very much know what it's like to say the first part of Jesus' statement, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow." I just think that this might absolutely kill me, I'm not going to make it right. And then to kind of feel like a little angst, God, everything is possible for you. In other words, God, you could fix this, so why aren't you? You could change this, I don't want this to be my story. And so, knowing that Jesus experienced the depth of my pain, made me realize that I could trust what he taught next. And there's just this little simple saying as he concludes this time of deep sorrow and crying out to God where he says, "Yet not what I will but what you will." In other words, Jesus trades his will for thy will because he's so confident God will.
Now that may seem like a big biblical answer, but here's what it really did to me as I was laying in my bed weeping thinking I'm not going to make it. It made me realize that not only does God see me and care about me and is intimately interested in my life, but it also made me realize this is one of the reasons that Jesus came, because he cared about moments like this. He came and walked the brutal realities of this earth, not just to make atonement for my sin like we learn in Hebrew, but also to be a merciful and faithful high priest, so that he could feel what I feel and he could model what to do. And so, we look at the life of Jesus and his teaching, we must always filter the reality that he knows the depth of human angst and pain and betrayal, and all of those emotions. And so, it's from that place that he taught what he taught.
Joel Muddamalle:
I love, I mean what a biblical theology. And we didn't practice this beforehand, it's like, Hey, I'm going to do this and you're going to do that. And I just love the Exodus passage he sees, he heard, he observes, and he says, "I'm going to come down." And what you just said is the fulfillment of he came down, he did come down in the person of Jesus.
Jim Cress:
Brilliant. I'd like to add if I may, as brother Joel has said so, well, we didn't rehearse and practice this or script this on a teleprompter. I use a lot of music, and you know that in my work and just a resource, we've used it. I remember at a book launch we used it, but Hillary Scott singing Thy Will Be Done. I play that so many times. And to use the language of the song, "Lord, I know you're good, but it don't feel good right now."
Lysa TerKeurst:
Right now.
Jim Cress:
And that's just that honesty to come to God with your red dot, the red dot says "You are here," and to say, "And then thy will be done," the song lyric, right? But I can go there and I will be done. I can go and say I feel like a mess and Lord, I don't know. And let this cut pass might have some angst, anger or other emotions, but just being real when I come and say, "Okay, thy will be done."
Lysa TerKeurst:
That's so profound, Jim, that you had mentioned that because that song and this whole understanding of Jesus hurting like we hurt, and being in the garden and exchanging his will for God's will, so that he was so confident that God would do so, thy will be done. The song and that teaching is the very reason no matter how you feel about tattoos, please don't send me ugly letters about tattoos. We can cover that on another Therapy & Theology, right?
Joel Muddamalle:
Yeah, we got you.
Lysa TerKeurst:
But my girls and I'll just show it to you, my girls and I went and got this tattoo all in the same place on our arm, and it's written in ancient Aramaic, at least, I don't know, ancient Aramaics. I really hope that it really says what it says. I hope it doesn't say like I like chicken sour, sweet and sour chicken or something.
Joel Muddamalle:
I think you're good.
Lysa TerKeurst:
But-
Jim Cress:
But to you it means.
Lysa TerKeurst:
Yes, supposedly, according to the monk that wrote it on a piece of leather that we then had it tattooed on our arms. It says "Thy will be done."
Joel Muddamalle:
And you're doing a good job with the Aramaic, you're reading from the right to left, not the left to the right.
Lysa TerKeurst:
Yeah.
Joel Muddamalle:
So, great job.
Lysa TerKeurst:
Thank you.
Jim Cress:
That proves its accurate right there.
Lysa TerKeurst:
Thank you. Thank you. Well, and the reason it was so important for me to have it with me all the time is because I wanted to look at it, I wanted to remind myself because healing and hurting both happen on a very daily basis. So Jim, what would you say is your go-to, I love that you love music. Is there anything else on those days you feel like, ah, I'm not going to make it. And what you could share that transferable wisdom to us?
Jim Cress:
Oh yeah. These you both know and one, I use a lot. I'm going to start with Nehemiah, and then I'm going to go to the words of St. Paul. I love in Nehemiah, at least in two places. First, and this is for you today, and I have this over my life on a daily basis. He prays to God and he says two things, the vertical and the horizontal. You get to do this folks, it's in the Bible. He said, "Grant us success today because we're going to go rebuild our lives. We're going to go forward, grant us success."
And then I need on the horizontal before a man who was King Artaxerxes, would you grant me a favor? One version would say mercy, but grant me favor. And then maybe I say, "Did you go into this conversation Lord, it's not a demand, it's a desire. Thy will be done. Grant me favor in this conversation if you will, but I want you to grant me success." Why? Because in two places, and here's what it says, "The king granted him what he asked for, watch because the good hand of my God is upon me. Wait the good hand of my God is upon me for good."
And you're going to hear that in Romans 8:28, but clear back here. God's good hand, if you're walking with Christ, God's good hand is upon you for good. He intends good. And then I'll said, I'd go over here to Paul. I don't even need, I can quote it. We all can quote it, right? In Philippians one, six, "That he, Jesus, God, son, Spirit, Father, he who began this good work in you, Hey, you don't have to carry the ball by yourself. He will continue to perfect that and perform that and that's until we get to heaven, when the race is finally run, that is He will be doing his work. We do our work down here, right? There's no question about that progressive sanctification. But God's good hand is on me, good hand is on you and everyone at this table, and he's going to keep perfecting. And I say, "Jesus, keep doing your work." And that's appropriate perfectionism, but it's all about Jesus.
Lysa TerKeurst:
Thank you Jim. And on a practical level, you taught me one time, three things to do when I am overwhelmed and just feeling triggered or flooded with emotion and I just, I'm having one of those panic moments, that full of anxiety. I'm not going to make it, I'm not going to make it. I won't get through this. And you said practically that it's scientifically proven that if you'll go and drink four ounces of water, it will reduce your anxiety. Who knew, right? Then you also said give it about 20 minutes, don't make any decisions, don't have any conversations, just give it 20 minutes, and that's about how long it takes for the amygdala-
Jim Cress:
The amygdala back here where traumas is stored, fear to calm down. And who knew? Isn't that funny? I know this, it's rhetorical, God knew.
Lysa TerKeurst:
That's right.
Jim Cress:
God designed this whole thing with the water and with the amygdala calming down.
Lysa TerKeurst:
And then the third thing I like to do is I like to take my shoes off if it's possible, and go and stand in the grass and look up at the sky and say, "It may feel like my world is falling apart, but the world is not falling apart," which also helps me understand this is a part of the story, but this moment, this intensity, this extreme emotion, it's not the whole of the story. And there's a big beautiful world out there. There's more to discover. There's people you're going to meet and the sun is really going to shine really brightly again. And the thing about not giving up, it's like don't give up in this moment because you'll be trading a million other moments that if you walk toward healing and hold onto the Lord and pursue a future in the right direction, it will be amazing. It may not ever look like you thought it was going to look, but-
Jim Cress:
Didn't you write a book about that?
Lysa TerKeurst:
Yes, I sure did.
Jim Cress:
It's not supposed to be this way. By the way, you talked about the sun and all that, which you already know all this, and that is the feet. We're on carpet, we're on the second floor, we're on concrete. They're washing the feet in the Bible all the time, they wrap their in the earth. So, the idea of getting barefooted in grass, not just on your concrete and walking the track around the neighborhood school, whatever, to get your feet, this is still my father's world. That grass, that earth is emanating up God's own precious energy. So, the idea of getting grounded in there because most of our life, even when we come home at night, kick your shoes off, but you're on carpet or hardwoods, right?
Lysa TerKeurst:
That's right.
Jim Cress:
This is God's world to get my feet in the earth.
Lysa TerKeurst:
That's beautiful. And so, the last thing I'll say is I remember when I was kind of consumed with this thought my life fell apart. But then one day I asked myself what if it was actually falling together? And what if today I can invest wisely in stopping this feeling that I'm falling? And what if today could be the day that I start rising? I hope this has been helpful for you. You are going to make it.