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Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative helping Christians to faithfully live out their faith in their work. We recognize most of life is not lived in black and white but rather lived in the gray, lived in the nuance.
You can find more, including complementary spiritual exercises, at www.collaborativeorlando.com/nuance.
And so one of the things that we always double down on, again, is you're created on purpose by the Lord and for a purpose by the Lord. Remember that and and remember that football or baseball or lacrosse, it's something you do. It's not who you are.
Speaker 2:On a Friday night in the fall, entire towns rearrange themselves around a field. Lights come on. Lines are painted. Parents scan the sideline. Students fill the stands.
Speaker 2:And for a few hours, attention gathers around young men who are learning in real time how to carry pressure, authority, failure, success, and one another. Football is more than a game. It's a liturgy. Week after week, it rehearses stories about discipline and desire, sacrifice and glory, belonging and identity. Long before a teenager can articulate a worldview, his body is being trained into one.
Speaker 2:Well, friends, today's conversation is about football, but it's really about formation. And I am thrilled to have a longtime friend here, Tim Hardy, athletic director and head football coach at Greater Atlanta Christian School. Tim, welcome.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much, Case. I'm excited to be here. Man, just your your opening piece got me got me excited for a Friday night in the fall. Good. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Well, so I was honored to officiate Tim's wedding, Was that eighteen years ago?
Speaker 1:No. 2025 and a half.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. So
Speaker 1:We married in 2000.
Speaker 2:You married before we did. That's right. Wow. Okay. Well and so Tim and I have been sort of family friends because his in laws were my godparents or still are.
Speaker 2:And I grew up with his wife. And so, dear folks, now we connected a few weeks back when University of North Carolina played University of Central Florida, and and Tim's son, Will, has just completed an incredible few years on the UNC team. So I know you're proud of him and also
Speaker 1:It's great. Yeah. And it was fun to fun to be together that day and drink about a $100 worth of Dasani water in the bounce house. Yeah. In the afternoon.
Speaker 1:It was a little warm, wasn't it? It was, but it was fun. Fun experience. It it turned out better for the Knights than for the Tar Heels that day, but still enjoyed enjoyed being together, enjoyed watching the competition.
Speaker 2:Well and Tim's other son played at University of Richmond, and they have a beautiful daughter at University of Georgia. Is is she a junior?
Speaker 1:She's a sophomore.
Speaker 2:Yep. Sophomore. So good year
Speaker 1:of thriving there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, like I said, Tim is athletic director and head football coach at Greater Atlanta Christian School. He has a bachelor of arts from Wheaton College and a master of science in managerial leadership from National Lewis University. Is it National Lewis or Louis?
Speaker 1:It is. Yep.
Speaker 2:Lewis. Okay. And an educational specialist degree from Valdosta State. In previous lives, he played football at Wheaton College and then coached there for ten years and served for a while as the head coach at Mountain View High School before coming to a Greater Atlanta Christian. He and his family attend twelve Stone Church and like I said, he has been married to Lindsay and they have three beautiful children.
Speaker 2:So Tim, let's just start with your story. Tell us how, you know, the Lord became real in your life, but also how football has been such a central component and shaped you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No doubt. Well, I I was blessed to grow up in a great house. Both my parents, deeply faithful believers, and so, in terms of foundations of faith certainly came, within the family. And so, their their mentorship and discipleship, really grew.
Speaker 1:I'm the middle of three brothers, some older Okay. Brother who's pastor in Charlotte.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Younger brother. Yeah. And so, actually, just just growing through my own personal faith journey, my older brother who went to the University of North Carolina then became involved with Campus Crusade for Christ Okay. Who Was instrumental in my faith growth, sort of becoming my own as I transitioned to later in high school. And then for me, as as that's going on, just three boys, always playing something.
Speaker 1:Right? So always playing sports, ball, whatever it may be. And and football just became something that I personally fell in love with and was a great experience for me. I had a I had a good high school experience, but then I really had a transformative college football experience. I got to go to Wheaton College, an incredible institution
Speaker 2:What a great place.
Speaker 1:For that. Just a fantastic football program. And so the head coach there and Mike Swider and some of the assistants were just so formative in in my growth as a player but also as a person. But also really seeing what, an activity like football in this instance can be, when used as a tool for your own individual growth Yeah. And the growth of others.
Speaker 1:And so when I went to college, if you had asked me to, you know, rank things I was interested in doing for a job, I don't think coaching would have been anywhere in the time.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But it's really seeing the effect that these these men had in both my life and the lives of my peers as I was graduating. Man, this is something I have some interest in. I wanna pursue this and and the Lord opened some doors.
Speaker 2:Now, weren't you the quarterback at Wheaton?
Speaker 1:I was. Yes. I played for Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I brag all the time. Oh, I knew the quarterback at Wheaton College and I I think that's awesome. But then tell us I mean, you stayed to coach. How did that happen?
Speaker 1:I did. Yeah. So actually, I remember a a formative conversation. So I was I was a business major and I was looking at business opportunities and also had this sort of coaching itch. And actually was visiting with our head coach, Mike Square, at the time.
Speaker 1:And I said, man, coach, I feel drawn to coaching, but I've got a business degree. I feel like this has been a waste. And he goes, Tim, I got a question for you. He goes, are you an open rebellion of the Lord? I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2:well, that's a little heavy.
Speaker 1:Took it the same way. Right. And I was like, no. And he goes, well, how long have you felt this this urge? I got for a couple months.
Speaker 1:He's like, the Lord's speaking to you through these things. So it's a little bit of a of a, you know, a a loop question where you go back to. And so just felt like, okay. I'm gonna do that. And so on couple different job terms, but ended up actually that first year at a school in Kentucky Center College in Kentucky.
Speaker 2:Oh, I missed
Speaker 1:that. Part time receivers coach there. Chase, I think you missed it because I gotta pay a thousand dollars to do that. So all all
Speaker 2:did it did make your resume.
Speaker 1:It didn't make it. But and then quickly, was able to go back to Wheaton and coach. And so some just sort of got into it and and got going and fell in love with it. And, coaching is not playing. It's a different thing, but it's it's close to it.
Speaker 1:And, I really enjoyed growing in the profession since then.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Well, now you have written that at Greater Atlanta Christian, coaches are expected to use competition as an avenue for investing in students' spiritual lives and personal character. Give us a sense of Greater Atlanta Christian and then how this statement of yours is is lived out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No doubt. So, yeah, Greater Atlanta Christian is 56 years old. So we're a private nondenominational Christian school here in the Northeast Side Of Atlanta, so just outside of the 285 Loop. And we're we're high school we're k 12 campus, but we're about 1,700 students in that k 12.
Speaker 1:So the high school was about six fifty to 700 sort of in a given year. It's just a a a dynamic place that's really, bent on using, using the opportunities here to to grow people's hearts and minds. And so, obviously, we wanna wanna use what happens in the context of the school day and what happens in a chemistry class or a or a history class, but also what happens after 03:00, whether it's on a on a football field or in a orchestra or whatever that may be. Mhmm. And so to me, really think this, Casey, I don't believe that athletics teaches you anything.
Speaker 1:Right? I think athletics is is sort of a neutral medium. Just like, you know, is social media good or is it bad? Right? We can have Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Those things. But I think it's I it's a neutral medium. But I think what it does is it really does have the opportunity to be almost a microcosm of life, take some things, and just accelerate them in short bursts that it creates the opportunity for great learning and growth and development. So the opportunity then is, if placed in the hands of a of the right mentor or the right coach, is incredibly powerful tool.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:On its own, again, what athletics can teach you is I like winning more than I like losing. Right? It's more fun
Speaker 2:Don't we all?
Speaker 1:To be on one side than the other. But Yeah. Really the the things that happen in that are amazing. And so our our coaches here have the incredible privilege and responsibility to come alongside our student athletes in some of their very best moments. Right?
Speaker 1:Some of the highs of highs and Yeah. Just throwing the game winning touchdown or basket or knocking in the game winning run on the baseball field, like like dreams coming true. We also have their tremendous privilege and responsibility to be right next to them in some of their lowest. Right? Sure.
Speaker 1:When I I I give up the game winning touchdown or I miss the game winning shot or give up the game winning goal on the soccer field. And so, how those moments are handled as well as all those in between is incredibly formative. And and so what it is is to take that opportunity and do that. I I sort of joke around campus, we're a seven period day school that this is the eighth period of the day. Alright?
Speaker 1:And so Yeah. It is. Actually, at our school, specifically, school leadership calls what happens after the traditional school day as co curricular rather than just extracurricular. Because if it's extra, you get rid of it. Right?
Speaker 1:But it really is working in that. And I say the advantage we have in the eighth period is is they love it, You know? No no no diss to the chemistry teachers out there. Sure.
Speaker 2:I don't know Sure.
Speaker 1:How many students are going home and dreaming of chemistry. Right? But
Speaker 2:I know
Speaker 1:a lot of my football players on Monday nights in the fall are turning on ESPN to watch Monday night football. Right? They're enamored by it. But what that does is that puts even more responsibility on the coach and says sort of this this carrot here, this carrot of of of competition of my sport that I'm interested in is is shame on us if we only use that, right, to get better at the sport. But man, that that focus and that pursuit of excellence needs to be used for to bring other things and certainly spiritual growth, but man, character qualities of of discipline, of selflessness, of humility, of perseverance.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So that really is what drives us in in what we do through athletics.
Speaker 2:Okay. So it take us to a fall afternoon, it's eighth period at Great Atlantic Christian. You're on the field with the guys. What are the very specific ways that then you bring in this perspective and this kind of character formation?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I think it's like like anything. If if we think of the people who have helped form us. Right? Number one, how have they done that?
Speaker 1:And and yes, sometimes that's in large corporate groups, but so much of that is driven off of relationship. Yeah. If if we sat down and wrote about who are the five most influential people in my life over, you know, a period of time, it's someone that I have a relationship with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so the first thing in the context of our programs is we want our coaches to do a great job of both building relationship, but also fostering an environment where relationship can be built in multiple directions. Yeah. Again, obviously, there's a there's the right relationship in that and what does that look like and those kind of things. But I think that that really matters. Again, going back to coach Swider at Wheaton College, something he always said, and I don't if it was original here or not, which is good, is rules without a relationship equals rebellion.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:And so That's great.
Speaker 1:Here where where I I don't know you and I just put a demand on you, like, wait. What in the world? What are we doing here? Yeah. Rules with a relationship equals response.
Speaker 1:And so in that, it's this process of of of building relationship and saying, hey. How can we have a relationship? And so when it's time to put rules or demands on you, there's gonna be a response. A case I liken it to this is is the picture of a bank account. Right?
Speaker 1:And so if you want a healthy bank account, you need to make a lot of deposits and you need be wise with your withdrawals. Right? Mhmm. So so to me, anytime there's an interaction that I'm making deposits with a kid, touching base with them, patting them on the back, Virtually, every day, I stand in the front of our field house and hold the door opener. Guys are coming in.
Speaker 1:And give them gif bumps and a smile and at this and, you know, laughing about the joke from yesterday and whatever it is. Just constantly finding ways to make deposits. And then as a coach, you do need to make demand. Right? But to be wise with that and what that looks like and so that your withdrawals are the appropriate amount, it's not just a reaction in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that goes from there. And so to me, that's that's sort of the basis of it is, hey. We're we're in concert with them. And so so much what you're trying to do is you're trying to live life. Right?
Speaker 1:And so the things that happen and what's that what that looks like really matter. For us, there's some formalized there's some rhythms that you build in. So I think a little bit like team life might have some parallels maybe to church life.
Speaker 2:Okay?
Speaker 1:And so for us, some rhythms and routines, we're gonna finish every practice with prayer. Okay? And so I'm gonna call on a different player to pray for us. Alright? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and sometimes it's pretty routine. Right? Sometimes there's something that's going on. Our athletic trainer, not missing a beat at work, has been going through cancer treatment. Okay?
Speaker 1:So there's been a regular update about Chad, our athletic trainer, and here's what's going on with that. There may be something going on with someone's family that I'll sort of share, and then he'll pray for that. But just the the routine that we're building in is, hey. When we come out here on a whether it's a 95 degree day in August or it's a 45 degree day in November, and we're always gonna stop and say, Lord, thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for this team.
Speaker 1:Thank you for the people that get me around. Let's do that. So that rhythm and routine of that. And then we do have a formalized. We take some time each week where it's a little bit more direct almost teaching, if you make sense.
Speaker 1:Okay. Corporate setting, in terms we call it we're the Spartans at GSE, so we call it Spartan for life. And that's got like dual meaning. It's it's one year, you know, sort of a member of our our fraternity forever. Right?
Speaker 2:So we're Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But more than that, we're trying to pour into you for life. And so we're taking things that are happening in the context of our team and applying spiritual principles and things that are there in a more almost classroom type setting.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I love this. Now I can imagine somebody may be listening and go, well, you know, you're at a Christian school. That's easy to do. Talk to me about some of your peers in the industry, if you will, who are at public schools or non Christian schools.
Speaker 2:How how many other coaches take this perspective as opposed to don't?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's first of all, that's a great question. I have no data. Okay. Hard hard hardcore data.
Speaker 1:Right. But, yeah, I have good friends who are dynamic believers at public schools. Yeah. Before I came to Greater Atlanta Christian, I was at a a large public school here in here in Metro Atlanta. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And when I came over here, somebody said, how has your approach changed? And I said, honestly, it hasn't changed as much as you think. Obviously, there we have a formal kind of thing, and I'm putting scripture on the board every Wednesday or whatever. That could be a little bit different, but we're talking about some of these same principles. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We'd finish every every Friday night with prayer at the end. Okay? And say, hey. You know, if we get the season, can't get us to pray at the end of every every practice and every game.
Speaker 2:And I love those videos because your wife will put those on Facebook, and it just warms my heart to see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so we we did that at the public school as well. Again, depending the district you're in, the things that are there, but you can live out faith principles. You may not always have to link those things up. I do think this.
Speaker 1:I do think there are a lot more coaches that see athletics as a as a venue and a means to develop young people than just a a tool. It's more transformational than just transactional. And I've seen that grow. I've seen that language grow across different different different groups. And and I think that's a that's a real positive positive trend.
Speaker 2:Now, Tim, I mean, I can imagine I mean, I know you have to deal with parents. You you know, it's it's the whole package of a family. And do you have any examples of where maybe a parent was not so excited about your approach and wanted to push you in the direction of, I don't know, being more of a hard asser?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Focus on the winning, not the people.
Speaker 1:Well, I I I think, one sense, when you sign up to come here, you signed up to come here. Right?
Speaker 2:And so we're
Speaker 1:totally clear, on on who we are and what we're doing. Second of all, we're really successful in the field. And so we're not giving up one to get the other. Right? So what I what I didn't say is, hey, we take all of Wednesday for a character lesson and we skip practice.
Speaker 1:No. We take fifteen, twenty minutes in a classroom. We're purposeful with that, and then we're going out and doing the things that that that we're doing. Actually think it work hand in hand beautifully as we as we come from there. Sometimes people will say, you know, will think like, you know, maybe when when a coach is is is being hard on somebody that it's always demeaning and if they're being more calm, then they're not.
Speaker 1:And and actually, I would say the opposite. If you came and watched a game, you would you'd see the vein come out of the neck a few times. You'd you'd see some passion, some energy. There's also and again, you mentioned my wife, Lindsey, who's a tremendous mother, a wonderful wife, and a great partner in all this. And also, like, good wives are a good check, right, in in different things.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And there was a game a year or two ago, and after the game, she's like, hey. I saw you lean into that kid pretty good. You know? What's going on?
Speaker 1:And I said, babe, I would I would I would read that what I said to him over the loudspeaker. Like, I would I would I would notate over the jumbotron everything that I said to him. Was it weak intensity? Yes. It was.
Speaker 1:And I'm demeaning him as a person. Right? Mhmm. I was I was developing him, but it was high leverage moment. And he made a behavioral choice that he knew was wrong and that was selfish and that hurt our team.
Speaker 1:And so he needed to recognize and see that. And that's one of the principles too. I I'm I'm not trying to turn this into a a coaching coaching discussion. But a little bit of this is as a coach, what you don't wanna do, you don't want people afraid to make physical errors. Right?
Speaker 1:The the greatest plays are made on playgrounds. Right? Be people make diving catches and trick shots and whatnot because there's no fear of failure. The worst behavior is made on playgrounds. Right?
Speaker 1:Because there's no no
Speaker 2:diss Sight. Exactly right.
Speaker 1:And so then what you don't wanna do as a coach, you wanna keep the freedom for people to adventure and you're not gonna make, you know, not gonna ever make a diving tackle if at some point you don't miss a diving tackle. Right? You gotta be willing to do those things. But what I do want you to be afraid of is I do want you to be afraid of to be lazy, to be selfish, to be insubordinate to a coach, those kind of things. So then when we make some behavioral choices like that, then those are made with met with more intensity, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Whereas the other thing, hey, man, you made a great dive. Ultimately, if you miss a lot of tackles, we need to play somebody else. Right? Mhmm. That's sort of how that plays out.
Speaker 1:But Mhmm. I think people buy into that. And what they what they get excited about, what I get excited about, is to see the growth in in young people. Right? And so for us, that that's what what gets me excited is when a young man or a young woman in one of our programs can't do something on Monday, and they can do it on Tuesday.
Speaker 1:And that happens all the time. And sometimes the physical is easy to see. Right? But the mental, the emotional, the social, learning to be a great teammate and care about the people around me, those are some real things that have to be addressed for that to happen, but there's great opportunity for
Speaker 2:Now having done this for two decades, you've seen a lot of kids come through. And I'm curious if any differences between the kids from the beginning of your career to now and maybe different ways they need to be formed because of our times?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Great great question. I I do think and it's it's a little bit of a generic answer, but I think it's true. I think there was a a time probably at the beginning of my coaching career and which wasn't long after I was playing, that if authority said to do it, you sort of did it and you didn't ask questions. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now there's a there's sort of a more of a flavor of why. Right? And why we do this, why we do that. Well, at times, there's, you know, there's moments to have a why discussion. There's moments that we're just need to need to do what we need to do in a quick quick manner.
Speaker 1:And so I think the best coaches find ways to basically share the why, maybe even on the front end. Okay? So literally, I was in the weight room last week with our guys and we were adjusting something. And just sorta, you know, hey, in in critical moments, when fatigue's gonna set in, your mind gives up and you're gonna you need to train that. So here's what we're doing.
Speaker 1:At the end of the workout, we're gonna hold a plank for two minutes. So you need to quiet your mind and put yourself where you need to be. So when those other moments come in the future, you understand how to quiet your mind and just focus in on the task at hand. So taking that approach rather than saying, hey, man. We're doing this.
Speaker 1:Go do it. It's like, oh, okay. So it's a little more buy in. And so as we're doing it in a room of 40 sweaty guys, guys start yelling back and forth in a great way. It's like, this is for the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1:We need this. I mean, like a like a movie. But it's just like, wait a second. We're seeing if I can buy into the why I've got Sure.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:That makes some sense. Right? I think that is a little bit a little bit different. The other thing too, I've heard it said, I don't know if if if you've read much of Tim Elmore, if you're familiar with him as a writer. Fantastic believer.
Speaker 1:I mean, really is an expert in the space of quote, the next generation. So it's always he and his group is is sort of, you know, youth, what's coming up and and just writes it from an adult perspective, what that looks like. And one of his quotes is this generation has more information than any generation that's ever had and less wisdom. Mhmm. I mean, at a second's notice, right, they can get any answer on their phone or device.
Speaker 1:But how to process that? What does that look like? So even for us in recognizing, okay, these guys can tell you here's what happened in the in the game last night, this, that, or whatever. But the opportunity to come alongside and say, alright. Let's let's figure out what's the right decision here, what made some sense.
Speaker 1:So whether
Speaker 2:it's Yeah.
Speaker 1:Tactical and you're breaking down a a sport and sort of think next level, but but I think wanting wanting to do that. I will say what I have noticed about, you know, kids these days, sort of this this more of this generation, is genuine relationships and authenticity really, really go a long way.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:So I I I do think that's a that's a piece where it's it's always worse when the choice is one more double down on relationship one more time and ask questions and get to know. I think that's a that's a that's an effective strategy and obviously a Christ like way to treat young people.
Speaker 2:Well, I can relate in the way in which how to be a good leader of staff and even as a parent, like, I've started trying to start with the why and then getting to the application whereas often I would flip it if I ever got to the why. And it does matter. So I'll put in the show notes information about Tim Elmore and any books you might recommend.
Speaker 1:Well, send you.
Speaker 2:Are there some virtues that are harder to instill in young athletes than others? Are there some that come much easier?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Great question. I think for all of us, selflessness, selfishness is in the channel. Right? And I think that's where team sport provides just a tremendous opportunity for them.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And sort of this opportunity to buy into something bigger than yourself. Right? And so to learn to train that muscle that it's not just about me, it's about us. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've sort of was sharing this fall with our team and and just sort of had a had a talk about how to be a a a follower of Christ as a as a young man and treating females. Okay? So we we had some some real conversation, which was good. Right? But one of the things I said on that is that, you know, one day, you've tricked some girl into marrying you.
Speaker 1:Some of these guys are gonna take a trick. Joking. Good good joke. But but in that is, like, it changes. When you're 24 and you're single, it literally is what do I want to do today?
Speaker 1:Right? Right. I wanna eat for lunch. Where do I wanna go? And all of sudden you get married and that that me becomes we.
Speaker 1:And if it doesn't, it's not going to work. And so to learn that muscle a little bit of, no. No. This isn't about what's just best for you. It's about what's best for us.
Speaker 1:And so think cross sport. That could be a basketball team that a guy averages 20 points a game. And just that given night, they weren't as many shots and he scored 12. So the team won. Is he gonna hang his head and, you know, drag across, or is he gonna be excited for his teammates?
Speaker 1:Right? Mhmm. His, you know, is it's a night in in football where it's bad rain. We'd like to throw the ball. It's a tough night to to to throw it, and we're gonna run it a little bit more.
Speaker 1:And so are the quarterback receivers pouty? Are we excited that we got to block and another guy scored a touchdown? And so I think the more we can create those kinds of things, it's it's really good. And it's it's against our wiring. Right?
Speaker 1:It's against our wiring. The best example I've heard those if if you're in a group and and someone took a group shot and then someone emailed or texted the the picture out, who's the first person you're looking at in the group shot?
Speaker 2:Yourself.
Speaker 1:We are. And so it's just the way we're wired. So we're sort of working against that. But to me is to call out those great moments of selflessness. Right?
Speaker 1:And what that looks like. One of the things we do, you know, we plan Friday nights. So every Monday, we recognize something we call elite efforts. So it's not doing your job or doing it well. It's like this is this is like another level.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:This is Above and beyond.
Speaker 1:Extra stuff. Right? And again, it can be a just incredible play, you know, a guy with a ball makes or whatever it is. But almost every time, it's somebody going up, you know, is taking on an additional blocker. It's sacrificing for themselves.
Speaker 1:It's a receiver sprinting across the field to try to make a block even though it's not feasible that he does. But it's his acts of selflessness. And so the more you call those things out, right
Speaker 2:Yeah. They start
Speaker 1:to come up and get get that you water them, they start to grow.
Speaker 2:Well, little confession here. Clearly not the an athlete but I played a bunch of things growing up. I always with football and I still think this today, like, I would wanna be a lineman because they don't get to score the points. I wanna be the guy who gets the big fame and the points. Even your son, Euncey, he was a defensive running back.
Speaker 2:That the right position?
Speaker 1:Safety. Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, if he got an interception, which he did a few times, he could run it. But he wasn't the guy normally
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Going into the end zone and
Speaker 1:Touching the ball.
Speaker 2:You gotta be about the team rather than
Speaker 1:just And that that's one of the things that's unique about football. I mean, literally, you think on the offensive side of the ball, there's 11 players. Right. Five of them are not allowed per rule. Okay, where they line up and their numbers to touch the ball.
Speaker 1:So the offensive linemen in a given play are not allowed to touch the ball.
Speaker 2:No. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So so part of it is you turn around and say, guys, this is the equivalent of you have a basketball team and you've got two people that all they can do is set and box out. Can't even get the rebound. Can't even get the rebound.
Speaker 2:Just Is that the same for college? College.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It is. College and pro. So so the interior linemen, you know, aren't eligible receivers, aren't allowed to touch the ball. And so so in that, just that nature of that position is a servant position.
Speaker 1:Right? And so it's me sort of pouring in and and doing that when a part of that. But that those are difficult behaviors to teach, but I think you've gotta be purposeful in the way that we do that and what that looks like. One of the sort of deals in our program is we talk about sort of as you get older, you get the privilege to serve. Okay?
Speaker 1:And so, again, sort of the idea of leaders eat last, you know, the highest level of leadership servant. You know? Mhmm. So for me, one of my favorite things is if we have an away game, we'll get home, you know, late at night. We have a, you know, equipment truck that will back up to the field house and we're unloading our equipment, is to see the older players almost fighting to get to the back of that truck to help unload the stuff.
Speaker 1:Right? It's not, hey. The freshmen unload it and the seniors sit back and watch. It's like, no. No.
Speaker 1:No. No. We've got the coaches and the and the older players are the ones that get to do those things. And so trying to build that in the DNA where that's that's what it's about. I mean, you know, listeners know that as a father, like, that's it.
Speaker 1:Right? As a as a mother, that's it. Right? You're really serving is what you're you're doing. And so the opportunity to train those muscles is
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Mhmm. I imagine even as a staff leader, athletic director, you've had some coaches that just didn't quite get this, that needed some help to adopt this perspective. Can you tell us about a situation there?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yes is the answer to that.
Speaker 2:It happens. Which is all,
Speaker 1:you know, all of us in leadership positions is we're working with, with other people and sort of adapt to that and what that looks like. I will think this and and I think maybe this could be relevant to your audience. I think one thing that can happen in athletics is you can have really dynamic believers who then are also, you know, sports people, but maybe they haven't melded the two before. Okay? And so the difference between being a, let's say, a coach who's a Christian and a Christian coach Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Is everything. And so that idea of truly having a biblical worldview and the things that I do, one of the ways I've always understood worldview is it's almost like putting on sunglasses. Right? You put on sunglasses with an orange tint. Everything you look at it, it's it's there.
Speaker 1:But some, like, they grew up in a different way. There we had a a coach a number of years back who's a unbelievable person, deeply, deeply committed believer. His sport background was separated from his faith. Just that's where he grew up. He didn't have a faith based coach in high school and college and whatnot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. When he stepped onto the field, he was a different human and not in a good way. And so, he he wasn't, you know, abusive to the kids or anything like that, but there was the, there was no buildup. There was no, encouragement. There was no sort of faith coming out in that.
Speaker 1:And there really was a hard line between faith and sport. And not out of belief, just more out of practice. I had a younger coach on my staff a number of years back who'd come from a similar background. Now he worked with me directly every day. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so it was awesome to see that process sort of change in him and so those walls come down. Again, deep to a believer, but it's like, when we're football, this is how we act. And when we're in faith, is how we act. Well, for for a Christian, right, for a Christian, it should should infuse in everything that we do. And so there's some work with our coaches to to to do that and help them play out.
Speaker 1:Part of what I said earlier is how can we build in some of these regular rhythms that where where our, you know, our our program, whether it's praying before or after practice or sometimes where we're calling these things out, what are some practices we can have for good sportsmanship for other teams that hold us to a standard and that can help help those coaches sort of live that out and play that out
Speaker 2:for Mhmm. You ever get into a fight with another coach?
Speaker 1:I mean, are you talking on my staff? Are you talking No. No.
Speaker 2:The opposing team's coach.
Speaker 1:You know, kind of boys. Couple tense moments where people think, oh, run up the score or this or whatever. I always try to do a a pretty good job at the at the end of the game. But there's there's some I mean, yeah, there's there's some debate out there is the smartest thing we should do after a highly contested contest is take both teams and coaching stats and come together and touch each other. Right?
Speaker 2:The most Right. Right.
Speaker 1:But all those are are one offs and and whatnot. Most people feel pretty professional.
Speaker 2:Well, a a lot of people know of my three children. My youngest is quite an athlete. Scratch athlete, anything he does. And lacrosse is where he's doubled down. Well, we we had a lacrosse game once where a dad on our side is screaming at the other coach on the other side of the field.
Speaker 2:Mean, it's just embarrassing. It was it was sad, really. And then dad started coming across the field and everybody yelled at him to come back. Well, finally, the opposing coach quit and resigned the game and told his boys, come on, we're going, we're done.
Speaker 1:Was
Speaker 2:you know, I'm laughing, but it is so sad the way things have become. Even at my child's public school, Charles played lacrosse and ran cross country. They now have to have an announcement before the game, a little statement that is read for all Orange County school games that behavior must be acceptable in any rowdy. No. Don't yell at them.
Speaker 2:No. No. And I'm like, man, that's so sad that we have to do that today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It is. I do think this. I think on the on the parent side of things, which being a a sports parent is awesome and awful at the same time. It's really a unique spot.
Speaker 1:And I think part of the it's unique spot. It's one of the few areas of your life that you have no control. Like, know? Like, so if you're there watching watching your son play lacrosse game, in those moments, you cannot control anything. Right?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And it's and it's and it's hard and it's your blood. Right? And so if if something gets physical or if you feel like he's being treated unfairly or whatever it is, it brings up feelings deep with inside. So Mhmm. If we're not purposeful to to have a plan for what that's gonna be and and see how we play these things out and so you do see these outlier pieces.
Speaker 1:Yeah. People sort of behaving poorly, but also as a parent, what an incredible opportunity. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Take into shape and to and to do this. And I think that's one of the things that we try to do, Case, within the context of our program and even talking with our parents, is to work against some of the societal norms that are there in and around the sport and say, how can those be redeemed in productive ways? And there's a lot of layers to that. Right? I do think the the, you know, the advent of social media is specifically sharp in males in the athletic space.
Speaker 1:And so so much of it is if I'm trying to make either be a recruited athlete, which I do need to use some social media to do that. It's Yeah. It's about me posting a highlight or, you know, who's following this or whatever else it is. And so very quickly, our self worth can be determined on Mhmm. Performance.
Speaker 1:Clicks. Like Yeah. Yeah. Can be actual performance and the clicks are the performance. And so one the things that we always double down on, again, is you're created on purpose by the Lord and for a purpose by the Lord.
Speaker 1:So remember that and and remember that football or baseball or lacrosse, it's something you do, it's not who you are. And it's a distinction in that, but it's a powerful one. And so really trying to double down on where your identity come from comes from and what that looks like is critical for the coach, but equal if not more important for the parent. Right? And so when you step away and do that think one of the one of the things in terms of formation, think, with with parents is after a competition, it's so easy for parents to immediately turn into coach.
Speaker 1:Right? And those guys there's nothing wrong with parents coaching their kids. But after a competition, I mean, are we making our best decisions emotionally and effective wise? As an actual coach, one of the things I'm always short in is post game. So we win the game, I don't have a whole lot to say.
Speaker 1:We lose the game Well,
Speaker 2:I love your post game speeches that Lindsay posts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Lindsay Lindsay captures stuff. But relatively short because what you don't have is you don't have time and perspective. Right? So, again, you're coming away as a parent and, yeah, you just had a a heated lacrosse game and maybe there's some good moments and some tough moments.
Speaker 1:Hey. I wanna double down on this. It can just end up being conflictual in a lot of ways. And so I think over the course of time is like, the the greatest thing as a parent to say when you've watched your kid play is literally that. I love to watch you play.
Speaker 1:Literally, I love to do this. And I'm sure, you know, how many ever years from now, I doubt you'd be going to too many lacrosse games there in Orange County when your son's not playing. Right? You're Mhmm. Right there just because you love the snow.
Speaker 1:Watch the sun. Right? That hot day in September at the bounce house when you are watching Will play, and it did not turn out well for the Tar Heels. But guess what? I tear it I loved watching him play.
Speaker 1:I was
Speaker 2:And I'll probably never be at another UCF football game.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:One for y'all.
Speaker 1:Right. So I guess my point is, I I say in those things, is those moments which for coaches are high leverage, they're also high leverage for parents. And that subtle things done properly can say, hey. I value more than just your performance. A few years ago, we always take our team to a team camp, and one of the best things we do is they leave their cell phones at Greater Atlanta Christian.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. They go away for three days with no contact to the outside world.
Speaker 2:Oh, wonderful.
Speaker 1:And it's awesome. And so these guys talk to each other and play games and make up songs. It's just like people being people. But we spent some purposeful time, you know, spiritually resetting at the beginning of the year and whatnot, and it's pretty powerful. And and one year, there's just a really strong theme about young men and their approval from their dads.
Speaker 1:And we've got guests flying by a campfire in the middle of nowhere in Georgia because I feel like, man, my I've gotta perform or my dad doesn't love me and all that kind of stuff. Mhmm. I came back and shared that with the fathers, and so they had some context to that. But I think there's even some subtle things. Some of these dads are great men.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? Like, they're people that are deeply faithful. It's just like, hey, if I only celebrate with them on the good days as opposed to on the tough days, what is that communicating? So I think Mhmm. For us, as we're in and around sport, we're trying to live that out, whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1:And those are great ways that we can we can form spiritually
Speaker 2:proper proper. If you would, I wanna talk about travel teams. Mhmm. Because I am increasingly vocal against families just indebting themselves and taking up any extra time with with traveling. A buddy of mine, he was on the lacrosse team said, the drive to the game to the drive should be no longer than the game.
Speaker 2:And because Brooks is so good at lacrosse, we get he gets recruited to other teams around Central Florida and invited to such things. And I've always gone to his coaches and said, please do not promote a travel team for Brooks because he's good, we're gonna do this, he's gonna play in high school, I'm sure and that's okay. You know, I'm not aiming for professional lacrosse career. College scholarship would be great but I'm not gonna destroy our family time together for this. Thankfully, it's actually in those conversations I found out his two main coaches are Christians and they have said to me, Case, we agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This should be a wonderful thing for him but not exhausting in his life. I look at other families in the church and they come back when their kids are in college and say, I don't understand why my child is not seeking the Lord. And I I kinda think to myself, well, you were at so many soccer games and not in worship. Proof's in the pudding.
Speaker 2:So give me some perspective on travel ball today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think maybe I would start with this. It's a little bit like, are you using sport or is sport using you? So good. And what are you what are you using it for?
Speaker 1:What's the outcome? So I think any anytime blanket statement could be whatever whatever it is. I mean, you have a highly gifted individual who has the ability to do this. Let's man, let's go be a part of some of these things. But but what does that look like?
Speaker 1:Like, how does that play out for us? Okay? And so let's say it's let's say it's a sport like lacrosse, which does have a a high travel component to it. But there's also this. I mean, if you're gonna be a recruited lacrosse player, there's a window of time in the month of June, primarily a little bit in July.
Speaker 1:Right. You probably need to be in a couple of these tournaments if you wanna do that.
Speaker 2:And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1:Exactly right. Sort of saying that. But there's also a bunch of b level things that happen throughout the year, and I could be on the team that practices Sunday at 11AM somewhere and blah
Speaker 2:blah blah.
Speaker 1:It's totally different. Right? But what are we doing? It's it's the old sort of analogy that we've probably seen a bunch of time in a youth group or a sermon where you got a glass jar, you got the big rocks and the little rocks in the sand. Right?
Speaker 1:Yes. And how is this gonna fit? Well, the only way it works is if you put the big rocks in there first.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:So as a as a family, and you said this is what matters. This is this is where it fits, and this is what it looks like. Mhmm. The other thing too is just this the what should be seasonal nature of that. And I'll I'll just use lacrosse as an example.
Speaker 1:So lacrosse is a spring high school sport and
Speaker 2:And they could go all year long if you let it.
Speaker 1:There you go. And so you get caught up in it. What are those things and what does that look like and how do we get get consumed with that. Okay? And and I really think at at the parent level, honestly, there's a there's a faith component into trusting like, man, I wanna do what I'm supposed to do for my child, but now I'm gonna trust the Lord's got a great plan for him.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna get caught up in the compare and despair game with these different kind of things. I had a conversation with a with a with a family friend two or three years ago. And this was a legitimate conversation. He's a sharp, gainfully employed, great person. But at this moment, he goes, I'm just so worried if my son doesn't make the baseball, the all star team, then he's not gonna be on the good team next year.
Speaker 1:If he's not on a good team next year, then he's gonna fall behind. They probably won't make the the team in eighth grade. He won't be on the high school team. He'll be done with baseball. And I was like, wait a second.
Speaker 1:You're talking about the second grade summer like all star team.
Speaker 2:Good night.
Speaker 1:He literally went from here to farther than you and I can see. I sort of called him out. I'm like, you're insane. So first of there's just like, nobody that's gonna show up. That's gonna level the deck in eighth grade for everybody.
Speaker 1:Right? But second of all, it's like, that's not where it is. And so I do think, sports because again, let me go back to parents, you know, can't control it. Feel the strong pull for the compare and despair, keep up with the Joneses, do what other people are doing. But I really think, and again, you've gotta be knowledgeable in what what you're doing.
Speaker 1:But there's a there's an element of like, Lord, I trust you. I trust you with my child's future.
Speaker 2:I trust
Speaker 1:you with his heart. I trust you with that. At the same time, you can't say, hey, we're just gonna pray and trust him. I'm not gonna take him to batting lessons. He wants to be a good baseball player on Tuesday night.
Speaker 1:Well, you've got to do the work too. But I think just balancing that. But I'd go back to that is are we using sport or is sport using us? Mhmm. There's great opportunity to play at the high level, to use it, to do those things, but just even keeping that in in perspective and understanding what
Speaker 2:it's about. Mhmm. Mhmm. This is good stuff. Well, in closing, I'd love to hear a little bit about your personal walk.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's you don't always win for sure and you can get exhausted, misunderstood. What are some of the things that sustain you when life is not so great?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's great. I appreciate you asking that. Yeah. I think there's a a nature in in the coaching realm that, you can't help but be connected to the the public performance.
Speaker 1:Right? And so to to push back on, hey. I did a great job this week because the scoreboard says twenty eight twenty four, and I did a bad job this week that says twenty four twenty eight. Right? And and get tied in that.
Speaker 1:And so I think part of part of coaches being able to, you know, coach from a position of health for their own own own players is is doing that. One of the things, I literally pray with our team after every Friday night game. And it actually goes back to the, I guess, a Matt Redman song in 2002 or so, Blessed Be The Name. I don't if you're Oh, dude.
Speaker 2:That's a good one for us old Soggies.
Speaker 1:Man, literally pray basically, a line from that is like, Lord, we praise you when all the sun shining as it should be and everything was lined up. And we praise you in the dark and desert place. And the desert place in that is, hey. We lost the game. Right?
Speaker 1:But, we praise your name either way. The thing is you'd consistent is we're gonna praise your name. And so we're thankful for that. And so literally me speaking that out, sometimes we say things to ourselves and we say them publicly, and then we have to live things out, is that. Obviously, for in in a personal level for me, I'm a I'm a morning person that's out on Wired.
Speaker 1:And so every morning, sort of my quiet time with the Lord, prayer, scripture, and then I and I like to get a workout in the morning. It just sort of sets my day right. Mhmm. And then, you know, as you said, you're just incredibly privileged to to be married to to Lindsay who's just such an incredible person. So committed in her faith and so committed to, you know, as a mom to to pray for and and and love our kids well.
Speaker 1:But I think trying to separate who we are and what we do as professionals Yeah. Is really important Tim, for
Speaker 2:you know, thank you. I'm so encouraged just by this conversation, but also knowing all the hundreds of youth that will benefit from your ministry for sure. Thanks for being with me.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks. It's it's a privilege. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, for those listening, you will find a link to the Greater Atlanta Christian School and its athletic program in our show notes, and I'll also put some in there to learn more about Tim Elmore and his writings. In this if this episode resonated with you or maybe a coach you know, a parent of a child or a former teammate, share it with them. Also, you'll leave us a review, it'll help others find this show. If you go to our website, wecolabor.com, wecolabor.com, give us your email, and we'll send you a copy of Zeitgeist, our journal on faith, work, and culture. My thanks to the Canaparo family for supporting today's episode.
Speaker 2:I'm Case Thorpe, and God's blessings on you.