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HR entrepreneur Mike Coffey, SPHR, SHRM-SCP engages business thought leaders about the strategic, psychological, legal, and practical implications of bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. As an HR consultant, mentor to first-stage businesses through EO’s Accelerator program, and owner of Imperative—Bulletproof Background Screening, Mike is passionate about helping other professionals improve how they recruit, select, and manage their people. Most thirty-minute episodes of Good Morning, HR will be eligible for half a recertification credit for both HRCI and SHRM-certified professionals. Mike is a member of Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) Fort Worth and active with the Texas Association of Business, the Fort Worth Chamber, and Texas SHRM.
At the intersection of skill, challenge, purpose is the universal entry point into flow. But first, think about it. A skill without a challenge, not going to ignite anything. A challenge without a skill, not going to ignite anything. It's the two together that activates flow and brings out the best in us.
Diane Allen:And when you add purpose to that, it takes it to a whole new level.
Mike Coffey:Good morning, HR. I'm Mike Coffey, president of Imperative, bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. And this is the podcast where I talk to business leaders about bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. I've long been interested in the idea of flow or being in the zone that a person can enter into a focused state of mind where you're firing at all cylinders, you don't have any distractions or you aren't looking for any and you just get shit done whether that means being creative or simply moving through your to do list checking things off. Joining me today to discuss the flow state and how to build a work environment that supports it is Diane Allen.
Mike Coffey:Diane is author of flow unlock your genius love what you do. She's a concert violinist and spent fifteen years as the concert master at the Central Oregon Symphony. Today she helps leaders and teams activate their flow state enabling them to navigate disruption, combat burnout, and create thriving cultures where purpose and passion drive peak performance. She's also a popular conference speaker, TEDx presenter, and featured media guest. Diane will be the keynote speaker at the North Texas SHRM Annual Conference on April.
Mike Coffey:Welcome to Good Morning HR, Diane.
Diane Allen:My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Mike Coffey:Well, I'm looking forward to your presentation because this is like one of those things as a, you know, I'm a yoga teacher and we talk about flow all the time. I always, you know, often speak about at the beginning of a class, whatever happened before you got here today, whatever you got planned for later on in the day, you know, set that outside the door, let this next hour just be you and your flow. And what I'm talking about there is, you know, focus on on your body, on your breath and just being fully present. But you're you're you know, a concert violinist, you've spent probably countless hours in practice rooms and rehearsals. And so how did you get interested in flow and especially at the level that you wrote a book about it?
Diane Allen:Well, I didn't have a choice because when a musician gets into the music, they're getting into their flow state. When an athlete gets into the zone, they're getting into their flow state. And flow is it's I think we should just quickly define it because when when you're going with the flow, that's passive. That is actually kind of, you know, rolling with it and maybe just, you know, letting things roll off your shoulders, you know, kind of quickly. But on the contrary, being in flow is being in the flow state, which is an optimal state of mind when people feel their best and they perform their best.
Diane Allen:There's neuroscience that sets us up to experience peak performance, to feel euphoric, to feel motivated, and to feel fulfilled. So there's a big difference between going with the flow and being in flow. And so what that looks like as a musician, as I said, is getting into the music. And so, originally, I've been teaching about getting into flow for a very, very, very long time. It started off with my tiny little violin students, which I knew that if I didn't give them a good reason to stick with learning like one of the hardest instruments to learn, it was gonna be an uphill battle to teach them.
Diane Allen:So I would teach them how to get into the music as quickly as possible and to access flow as quickly as possible. Because flow are you know, it's those moments when, you know, you lose complete track of time. You just love what you're doing. You're you're so immersed. It's as if nothing else is around you.
Diane Allen:Ideas and insights are coming in. In a world where 95% of thoughts repeat, you're having new thoughts, you're getting more done. Right? Productivity goes up 400% when you're in flow, learning speed 250%, and creativity goes up 500%. So bottom line, as a violinist, as the concert master, which is the lead violinist of an orchestra, second in command to the conductor, I had to always be in the music and get into flow.
Diane Allen:And it served me to really deeply connect with my work, to be able to lead with energy, and to be able to enroll all the people on stage without ever speaking a single word. So there's a lot to unpack there, but that's the basic background for you know, as last thing I I'd like to say about your opening question is everyone gets into flow. It happens to all of us. It just happens to be that musicians and athletes rely heavily on it for us to be deeply engaged and at the best. So I've, you know, as a long time teacher, I've broken it down so that I could teach everybody how to get into their work like a musician gets into the music.
Mike Coffey:So is that ability to get in that flow, is that limited to something that you really really care about and I mean you're really passionate about? Is in and is it like just a personal anecdotal experience or is there is there science around it to say this is what it looks like physiologically when you're in flow?
Diane Allen:Yes. To all of that. Okay. Yes. Physiologically, what happens is is that the peak performance hormones that get released are an endomidae, endorphins, dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine.
Diane Allen:This is what sets people up to, you know, be at their best and experience, you know you know, moments of of you know, it's to the point where your inner critic is even gone. Right? Your fight or flight response shuts off. So you feel uninhibited. You feel fearless, and you're just basically rocking it.
Diane Allen:Yes. Those moments when you get more done in thirty minutes than you had in last three days, you know, that's that's an example. And I think everybody has experienced flow. Key indicators of flow are losing a sense of time, losing a sense of self. Those ideas and insights coming in from out of the blue, things coming together with the sense of ease.
Diane Allen:You're in a positive feedback loop. So a negative feedback loop is when you're pouring yourself into your work and there's no energy coming back and you get drained. Positive feedback loop is your work is so rewarding, it ends up refueling you. And overall, you feel more whole, happy and fulfilled.
Mike Coffey:Is it mostly around creative enterprises then or is it also I mean, if I'm an accountant or a bookkeeper, let's say, and I'm entering ledger entries all day long, is there flow behind that or is it really just more on creative work?
Diane Allen:Yes. To everything.
Mike Coffey:I'm batting a thousand a day.
Diane Allen:Whenever I every time I you know, I've spoken at a lot of SHRM conferences. And whenever I say, raise of hands, how many of you lose your all sense of time when you're working on an Excel spreadsheet? There are people, I would say, a good 30 or, you know, 40 people who, like, shoot their hands up. Right? So the way I like to describe my thought leadership on flow, which stemmed from a very embarrassing experience where I was at a concert, I had a massive interruption, and I kept going.
Diane Allen:But once I got going, I was completely disconnected. I was literally going through the motions. I was just playing the notes. So, you know, that's the difference between doing your job and and, you know, really engaging in your job. Right?
Diane Allen:And it was very disturbing. And that night, I literally sat down to reverse engineer how you get into flow because flow falls under the umbrella of positive psychology. And positive psychology, it's all about taking a look at what's working well in your life, reverse engineering it so you can create more of that goodness. And I was just, you know, I was just so embarrassed, and I knew that if I didn't crack this nut, right, if I ever had a a bump in the road like that again, that I would really benefit greatly if I knew how I uniquely got into flow. So I came up with, you know, just sitting on the couch literally grilling myself with questions and I realized I was asking myself three questions.
Diane Allen:Where? Where am I when I get into the flow state the most? What am I doing? On the outside, I'm playing the violin. But on the inside, I had to think about it.
Diane Allen:And I realized, you know, it's a lot like reading out loud to my son, sharing the message and sharing the experience together. And I was like, well, that feels exactly what it's like when I am, you know, deeply engaged with the music and and providing that musical interpretation that people expect. And then I was like, okay. Well, that feels right. What about those concerts when I moved to tears?
Diane Allen:And I realized there was a pattern to those concerts. They were always audience sing alongs. And I realized there's something about a group of people. I experienced it in yoga class too. When you have a group of people doing one thing together, right, it unifies you and that just brings out the tears and that is my purpose.
Diane Allen:So knowing that, what I call flow strategy, what you do on the inside is your most compelling internal self motivator. It's that thing that makes you tick. It's like your secret sauce. And when you could define what that is for yourself, you can shift into your flow state on purpose. And when you can also define your what's so meaningful for you, your why, you know, so many different people say, you know, figure out your why, right?
Diane Allen:In this case, I'm like, why is it so meaningful? It's usually the values that are so lofty that pull the best out of ourselves, like peace and love and unity and freedom and equality. Right? And so, when you can define why it's so meaningful for you, can shift into the flow state with purpose. And so, this is your flow strategy.
Diane Allen:And I have been speaking about this to a number of HR conferences. And when I talk about what I'm going to do at the Northwest is it North?
Mike Coffey:North Texas. North Texas. Yeah.
Diane Allen:Yeah. I live in the Pacific Northwest, so that came out of my mouth first. But the North Texas SHRM conference, we're going to have ample time for people to figure out their own unique way to get into flow, but they're also going to learn how to coach each other to figure out each other's flow strategies. Because if you've got an employee coming in and they're frustrated, they want to be you know, we all want to be more engaged. It's and, you know, having it be meaningful experience, you know, you'll have tools to coach you through the experience.
Mike Coffey:So if flow is that, you know, that internal focus, that that connection with a purpose, what kind of things distract or interfere with from from being in flow? Interruptions. Interruptions. Okay. So, that's a workplace 101, right?
Diane Allen:They are the especially quick questions. Yeah. Here's the difference. If you know how uniquely get into flow, then when you do have an interruption, you can get back to it much quicker. So
Mike Coffey:yeah, those interruptions and in fact we we realized a few years ago here at my company that my best employees, my most proficient analysts were becoming my least productive because of the constant interruptions from either their peers, who would say hey, I've got this unique situation, I've got a question Or clients calling in and saying, hey, I've got a question or, you know, what would you do here, whatever. And that meant while they were being helpful, their own productivity was down and and we set up a process so that we created a new role client liaisons who are the frontline who all those calls go through. I mean they're in, you know, what and we set up office hours so that people could set aside if it's not truly urgent internally, you know, there's there's somebody who can stop and answer their questions in a block and at a certain time just so we weren't peppering my most valuable employees with with interruptions all day. And it's probably not a horrible thing for the other employees to figure stuff out and then come back with an answer rather than just saying what's going on. So I guess I I wasn't thinking about it as flow at that time, but the fact that they can knock out a ton more work without those interruptions even though those, you know, resetting those interruptions, you know, that interruption may be thirty second but it seems like resetting it and getting back into flow or, know, that high level of productivity is four or five, six minutes maybe and then here comes another call.
Mike Coffey:So I guess we were setting up flow and we didn't really think about it in that term.
Diane Allen:Mhmm.
Mike Coffey:So what other things in the workplace besides avoiding distractions might help create an environment where flow work is promoted?
Diane Allen:I want to share another model with you. So when I talked about the three questions where, what and why, that was my own unique thought leadership really trying to discover what makes you tick so that you can replicate that on purpose and with purpose. Right? But Mihai Cheeksentmihai, he's one of the very first psychologists who did in-depth research into flow. And he has a wonderful book that talks about many different ways to get into flow.
Diane Allen:And I'd like to share this one every time I speak because you should see the lightbulbs going off in people's heads when they hear this. So according to Csikszentmihalyi, at the intersection of skill, challenge, and purpose is the universal entry point into flow.
Mike Coffey:Okay. Wait. That's skill, challenge. Sorry for interrupting your flow, but skill, challenge, and purpose.
Diane Allen:Purpose. Think of a three circle Venn diagram. Right? But first, think about it. A skill without a challenge, not going to ignite anything.
Diane Allen:A challenge without a skill, not going to ignite anything.
Mike Coffey:Except frustration. Right. Yeah.
Diane Allen:It's the two together Yeah. That activates flow and brings out the best in us. And when you add purpose to that, it takes it to a whole new level. And volunteer work is a perfect example. You've got a group of people with a variety of skills coming together to face a challenge and doing it all for a purpose.
Diane Allen:And in this environment, we know people love volunteer work. You know, like bring on the hard work. Right? There's collaboration. People who don't even know each other come together.
Diane Allen:Ideas and insights are popping. You've got all those key indicators of being in flow. So how can you create that into your daily life? It's simply to use that as a lens to look through. Maybe you can use skill, challenge, and purpose as an assessment tool or as a planning tool.
Diane Allen:And so I have a few examples I really wanna share with you. Let's start with Alaska Sherm.
Mike Coffey:Okay.
Diane Allen:There was somebody in the audience who was the person who viewed all of the workplace injury forms. Right? This was their piece of the puzzle, that they had to see all these forms and do the work that they do with them. And this skill challenge purpose thing, he came running up to me after I spoke. Here's what he said.
Diane Allen:Fishing industry. Right? So he taught he described two different jobs. First job is you've got people who wash the fish. It's a conveyor belt.
Diane Allen:The fish go by all day. They wash their fish. Then you have these other people who have to put their whole body into this machine, and they I'm gesturing the the way he gestured to me where his hands are up and you have to pull this machine down with all your might. It's processing the fish. And as you're pulling this, you have to put your whole body into it.
Diane Allen:It's very physical. And the work that you do, you see the processed fish. You see it accumulating alongside, so you can see the results of your work. And then he describes this to me and he says, okay, who which job has more workplace injuries? What do you think, Mike?
Mike Coffey:Well, I would have said the the intuitive one would be the one with the heavy equipment and and the, you know, the piles of fish all around. But you're gonna tell me otherwise, I think.
Diane Allen:Yeah. It's the people washing the fish. Interesting. He said, he realized it's because there's no skill, there's no challenge, and there's no purpose at all. And he was convinced that he could gamify this.
Diane Allen:Maybe he can have a skills contest with people or have them have some fun with it. Give them some challenges. And then he realized that importance of seeing the feedback of their work, right, because without it, it's just like this long endless thing. And then we didn't I don't remember what he said about purpose, but the skill and challenge alone is, you know, honestly, the gaming industry is all built on flow. It's all built on that dance between skill and challenge.
Diane Allen:You know, you're
Mike Coffey:working on Well, and I guess that's you hear about all these people who go to casinos and they look up and the three hours have passed. Yes. And they look up when they're when their pockets are empty and wonder what happened. And Yeah. So I guess that you're right.
Mike Coffey:I never I never thought about that. Yeah. Well, I guess social media is probably built on something very similar because it you get sucked into scrolling through your social media, you get the little dopamine hits and you just time disappears. It's I mean, there's probably a negative version of
Diane Allen:Let's talk about that.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. Yeah.
Diane Allen:Because that kind of dopamine hit is like eating cheap candy. It's like in the moment, it tastes great, but then afterwards, you feel crappy.
Mike Coffey:Okay. Right.
Diane Allen:That's I'm blanking on the name for that. I wanna say it's something like hyper focus. It's a you know, there's a lot of different ways that people can get into flow, and there's different degrees to which you can get into flow. You can say there's different flavors of it. Right?
Diane Allen:And what I'm talking about is when I'm talking about flow, I am talking about the kind that's very satisfying, that keeps you engaged with your work. It's why you come back the next day. It's why all of a sudden people are saying 05:00 already? Can't wait to come back tomorrow.
Mike Coffey:And let's take a quick break. Good morning HR is brought to you by Imperative. Bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. At Imperative, we help risk averse clients make well informed decisions about the people they involve in their business. Because our research is thorough, our reporting is robust, and our compliance is strict, our clients can take action on the information we provide.
Mike Coffey:And when they call us with a question, we answer the phone and get them what they need with fast and friendly service. You can learn more about how we serve our clients at imperativeinfo.com. If you're an HRCI or SHRM certified professional, this episode of Good Morning HR has been preapproved for one half hour of recertification credit. To obtain the recertification information, visit goodmorninghr.com and click on research credits. Then select episode one ninety five and enter the keyword flow.
Mike Coffey:That's f l o w. And if you're looking for even more recertification credit, check out the webinars page at imperativeinfo.com. And now back to my conversation with Diane Allen. So I like that idea because it it plays both ways. Right?
Mike Coffey:That skill and challenge combination because you hear about people who are maybe overqualified for a job and and have a hard time getting things done. And then on the other side, if it if the job's too hard, if I if I if I just get frustrated, I build anxiety because I can't do this thing that would interrupt as well.
Diane Allen:Yes. So let's go a little deeper. If you think of skill and remember, we're thinking about a three circle die Venn diagram. If you think of skill and challenge as dials, you could be underskilled, overskilled, have just the right amount of skill. You could be under challenged, over challenged, have just the right amount of challenge.
Diane Allen:Challenge is subjective, right? So you really have to check-in with people. One person's big hairy audacious goal is gonna crumble somebody else. So you have to find the right mix and it's usually just a titch out of your comfort zone that's going to ignite flow. So when I spoke for the Northwest Human Resources Management Conference, there was a woman there.
Diane Allen:She said she knowingly hired somebody who's overqualified for the job. She had been very nervous about retaining her. She didn't know how to broach the topic. She didn't know how to talk with her. But when she saw this model, she says, I know exactly how to talk with her.
Diane Allen:I'm going to ask her what skills she'd like to learn. I'm going to ask her what kind of challenges she's like and ask her, you know, if she's finding enough purpose. There was another woman at the same conference, she shared that learning a new skill, which we all have to do these days, is a challenge and purpose can keep you motivated. But once that skill is honed, you've gotta re shake things up. That's where planning comes in place.
Diane Allen:Right? You've gotta re challenge it and maybe even find new purpose.
Mike Coffey:That's interesting. My number three son, my youngest, is a junior at the music conservatory at Oberlin. Always try to find a way to work in one of my three sons in here in Bragg. I always said I wasn't gonna be that parent who thought their kids were all that all that, but then I didn't that was before I knew I was gonna have kids who were all that. But number three, he's a he's a clarinet performance major and I I see him the first, you know, when I see him perform with his quintet or in other environments, it's a different kid than the one who's sitting on my couch eating potato chips watching Netflix during, you know, when he's home from school.
Mike Coffey:And he is he's focused and I guess that would be flow. I've I've not thought about it that way, but it always hits me that he's doing something that he loves, that's really that he's really good at and that he's worked at. Yes. I guess that's really a big part of that and that's interesting.
Diane Allen:It is. I my son struggled in high school, full on teenage rebellion. Normal. Right? They're supposed to rebel at that age as part of the the growing process.
Diane Allen:But the second he graduated, he went straight to the local municipal airport and he hired a flight instructor. And now he's flying Learjets. Okay?
Mike Coffey:Oh,
Diane Allen:wow. 27 year old flying Learjets. Now here's the deal. My my brother-in-law, he used to operate a crane at a plant that they were building train engines. And his job was to turn the engine around so that they could do the next part of the work.
Diane Allen:Right? It's some sort of assembly line. But the problem with this particular crane is is that if you if you get it and they're just the wrong way, this thing will start swinging out of control and become deadly. Okay? And so, you know, both my brother-in-law and both my son, these jobs require that level of deep focus.
Diane Allen:They require excellence at all times. And so, you know, I talked earlier about, you know, as a violinist or as an athlete that we rely heavily on being in flow. When you see your son in flow, I've seen my son in flow. I know my brother-in-law had to be in flow to do that job. But not everybody has a life or death.
Diane Allen:Right? Yeah. Experience, you know, with that their job is a life or death thing. But it doesn't mean that you can't enjoy, you know, the the elation that people experience from doing excellent work and from being at your best. That's, you know, all about self actualization and and fulfilling on your potential.
Mike Coffey:So let's let's talk about group performance
Diane Allen:Yes.
Mike Coffey:Then and group flow because, like, I've individually people can be in flow, but then you get them, you know, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Bill Evans altogether in 1958 and you get Kinda Blue and, you know, one of the best jazz albums of all time. All and you listen to that and all four of them were clearly in flowed, but they were also listening to each other. They're playing on each other. How does a group flow how do you create a group flow? How does that happen?
Diane Allen:So as the lead violinist of an orchestra, I created that and I'll give you the the mechanics of it as well. So first, I would have to lead myself. Right? You always have to lead yourself to lead others.
Mike Coffey:Sure. Yeah.
Diane Allen:So, I had to lead myself first to be in flow, to be at my best, to be deeply connected with the music and deeply connected with the conductor because he and I were steering the whole ship. Right? And so, according to the HeartMath Institute, when you are engaged in purpose, right, and you're in this deep level of flow, you are actually activating the 40,000 neurons in your heart. The electromagnetic field of the heart reaches out 60% more than the electromagnetic field of the brain. So when you are in your heart space, right, what does that mean?
Diane Allen:It means that you're in purpose, right? It can mean many other things as well. But right now, we're just talking about when you are coming from a place of purpose, you are igniting those 40,000 neurons in your heart. Your energy is now exuding three feet all around you. And anybody in that sphere is going to sense that.
Diane Allen:It's basically the the energy of enthusiasm. We all know somebody who, you know, they've got pizza night on Friday nights and they get so enthusiastic about it. Right? Maybe they make their own and maybe you're not so into it, but they invite you over and you can't help it. You get enthusiastic with them because they're so enthusiastic.
Diane Allen:So being in flow, completely and deeply in flow becomes the energy of influence. Now those people in my three foot circle, they're going to sync up because that's what people do. We sync up. Now, they are exuding their three foot circles around them. The people behind them, it becomes this ripple effect to the point where the audience gets looped in as well.
Diane Allen:And that's how you ignite group flow by first leading yourself to lead others.
Mike Coffey:Interesting. So and and we've all seen that where one person has an idea that you read it on paper, it sounds like a kooky idea and you know, for a business or whatever and I've seen my share of them over the years and then you meet the person and suddenly it seems achievable. I mean, and I'm sure, you know, everybody from Jeff Bezos to Elon Musk to any of those folks who've built phenomenal companies that nobody dreamed of or thought was thought were nuts, they've probably got that ability to excite and motivate and incentivize other people. And and so what you're saying is that is the first part about getting somebody into into the rest of a team into a flow state is to have a leader. Yep.
Mike Coffey:What about this yeah. Go ahead.
Diane Allen:I have another example. Okay? Using the skill challenge purpose model. This was a group of high school math teachers. They were they had a grant.
Diane Allen:Their task was to develop curriculum that teenage math students could relate to. So that's the purpose. Right? It's already there in the in the task. The teachers, they were all very highly skilled, and they entered this with, you know, a lot of creativity and brainstorming.
Diane Allen:They were just popping, popping, popping. Got to a point where they stalled, And a friend of mine was part of this cohort, she asked me to come in. So we were taking a look at what was going on and through conversation, I started to realize each person on this team had a different concept of what the current challenge was. And as soon as they each voiced what they thought what the challenge was, well, you can already tell what's happening. Now that they hear where they're really at, they can now unify and address each one of those challenges.
Diane Allen:And then it just ended up, you know, getting back to where they were. So, you know, sometimes that using that model was really, really helpful to identify, like, what's missing? You know? You gotta have all three of those equally present.
Mike Coffey:Skill, challenge, purpose. That's really a that's that's that's really that's I I might have to think about that. That's really an interesting concept. We're almost done, but if I was designing a workplace or a work environment, I'm guessing off the top of my head the things that I need to think about if I really wanna encourage flow status. Again, the amount of distractions.
Mike Coffey:The thing that I've always hated in job descriptions is multitasking required because what you're really saying is serial tasking and, you know, it's it's okay to have a lot of accountabilities, but at any given time I want you to be able to focus in on one thing and get that thing done. So, I'd wanna avoid true multitasking, try to doing trying to do three things at once. What other workplace design things would you put into place to help a team work in flow?
Diane Allen:Yeah. So I'm gonna call you out on one thing. I work with somebody who has ADHD and he is a master at multitasking. In fact, he he thinks it's his gift for the work that he does. He's a he's a land acquisition manager for a real estate developer, and things are always popping.
Diane Allen:So you never know. Like, you never know. Somebody might thrive in multitasking, whereas I think there might be a majority of people that don't. You know, I think we've all seen the stats on that, but there are people who do. So when you're thinking about team right, is that what your question was?
Mike Coffey:Right.
Diane Allen:Yeah. I think that it's a combination of everything that we've talked about. You know, a designated block of time that I recommend is ninety minutes of uninterrupted time. That gives you the chance to kind of, like, you know, into flow, get into a peak of it, and then kind of have a wind down. And and, you know, knowing that you've got that blocked off, nobody's allowed to you know, no interruptions allowed.
Diane Allen:Right? Really insulate that. I think magic can happen. Also, having these tools that we talked about, How does each person uniquely get into flow? Right?
Diane Allen:How can they use skill, challenge, and purpose? And using these tools. You know, it's also helpful, I would say, yes, you might uniquely know how you personally get into flow, but what if you also knew what your other teammates, you know, what's their secret sauce, right? What makes them tick? What's their purpose?
Diane Allen:You've got personal purpose, you've got organizational purpose, you've got project purpose, right? So, you know, using all of those different levels to really clearly define, I think, also helps to, you know, create, you know, the environment that will really help teams to thrive.
Mike Coffey:That's really, really interesting. I can't wait to hear the rest of your presentation. I we barely scratched the surface. And you're presenting again at the North Texas SHRM Annual Conference on April. That's all the time we have today.
Mike Coffey:Thanks for joining me, Diane.
Diane Allen:My pleasure.
Mike Coffey:Diane's contact information and all her other resources and including a link to her book are going to be in the show notes. And again, you can hear Diane's keynote at North Texas SHERM's annual conference on April, and I will include a link to all that information in the show notes as well. And I'll also be there. I will be recording a podcast live from the stage. We're working without a net, and so it'll be it'll be interesting.
Mike Coffey:And so if you wanna see me get into flow or fall on my face, we'll see what happens. But it'll be April 29 in Denton, Texas at the North Texas SHRM conference. And thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review on your favorite podcast app, whether it's Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. It helps people find us.
Mike Coffey:Also, do your friends a solid. If you like this episode, find Good Morning HR on your favorite social media and share it. And we'd love to hear your thoughts about this episode at goodmorninghr.com. Thank you to our producer Rob Upchurch and to Imperative's marketing coordinator Mary Anne Hernandez. And I'm Mike Coffey.
Mike Coffey:As always, don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of service to you personally or professionally. I'll see you next week. And until then, be well, do good, and keep your chin up.