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In this episode we discuss why thousands of Haitians are arriving in Del Rio, Texas, and how the Biden administration's new policies protect illegal aliens from deportation and end all worksite enforcement.
The Federation for American Immigration Reform's podcast bringing you the most important updates about U.S. immigration. Featuring special guests including members of Congress, journalists, and experts in the field.
Preston:
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of fair's understanding immigration podcast my name is preston hennekens I’m fair's government relations manager and the host of today's show and I’m joined today by our press secretary matthew tragesser and our research director spencer raley there's been plenty of immigration news in recent days we have a new and growing problem with haitian asylum seeking aliens an explosion of apprehensions in arizona and some disturbing new policies from the biden administration and dhs so let's jump right into it we're going to start first with what is going on with the growing number of haitian aliens arriving at the border the us government has expelled thousands of haitians from our southern border fifteen thousand haitians were at one point camping out in del rio texas the department of homeland security reports that most of the haitians have been sent back to haiti or turned back to mexico so I want to go ahead and open it up to both you guys and first maybe ask what made this haitian population different from the other groups that we were seeing coming to the southern border during this administration
Matthew:
well I think the most interesting thing was just the quantity of people coming in one location over this small time frame it was about you know an eight day period where as you said 15,000 people were located under this international bridge near del rio texas and a lot of these haitians believe it or not were actually residing in south american countries like chile brazil colombia for almost a decade and after the 2010 earthquake in haiti a lot of them migrated to south america and have just kind of stayed put there well now due to the by administration controlling our border and immigration policies a lot of these migrants thought hey now is the time to come up to the us mexico border this is the best opportunity for us and you know you listen to these reviews at the or interviews they do and a lot of them looking for better jobs better wages and um you know unfortunately that doesn't qualify for political asylum in our country and that creates a number of logistical issues and um you know contributes to our backlog so I think it was just a crazy situation just to see that sheer number of people fifteen thousand over eight days um and then as you mentioned some were returned uh to haiti on these repatriation flights but only about seven thousand so eight thousand you know we're still kind of trying to calculate where they ended up is it are they in mexico are they in the interior of our country now um that remains to be seen and let's not forget there's another caravan except of 80,000 now of haitian migrants coming through the darien gap that separates panama from colombia they're on their way here and should be here within the next few weeks unless you know the northern triangle countries step up and you know enforce their borders more
Preston:
yeah I thought it was really interesting because I think I saw this somewhere quoted where one of the haitians they interviewed him and said why are you coming to the u.s um was it was it bad in argentina or chile or wherever it were and they go no it's good in argentina but it's going to be great in the united states and so that's (right) almost immediately disqualifies you for asylum so I wonder if this in this next caravan as they're you know hearing more from other international ngos and they're getting in touch with some of the activist groups here in the u.s if they'll change their tune about how great south you know some of the south american countries they live the better part of a decade in
Spencer:
well I think that also is just a testament to the biden administration's narrative of essentially come to america again I remember seeing another interview with someone they asked them you know why are you coming they said because biden told us to biden said come on now I’m welcoming you to america so I was like all right here I come and those that were apprehended and were facing deportation acted shocked they were like biden said we could come though and you know just kind of appalled that they were facing consequences for violating you know our border laws and it really is in a way it's a kind of change of tune from the past because again and you know during the crisis of 2019 we actually saw a lot of these migrant uh advocate groups these illegal alien advocate groups going to the border going to mexico and coaching people on how to get through these initial asylum interviews because they realized that was going to be necessary if they wanted to get into essentially the backlog of cases and have a shot at staying in the united states for at a minimum of several years now it just seems like that's a lot of migrants don't even don't even care to do that they know that the chances of being deported are so low that they can basically just come and say yeah I’m here what are you gonna do about it biden said I could come and it's it's really it's a shame and that's why we now have another caravan of tens of thousands potentially 80,000 or more coming to the united states because why wouldn't you if the message is being put out there that there are no uh ramifications for uh not only are there no ramifications for violating our border laws there's a very high likelihood that you will be brought into the states and there is also talk of you staying here for years and even getting amnesty
Matthew:
right no and it's you know let's not forget the trek that they have to do again a lot of these uh migrants from haiti are in south america right now and they're migrating you know thousands of miles by foot you know getting involved with human smugglers going through really dangerous and hazardous conditions again the darien gap if you if you're unfamiliar with this look this up on google I mean it is a really rural gap there's no infrastructure it's a lot of rainforest and it's it's a dangerous trek and you know it's a lot of money obviously involved with this too and it's you know they're just being encouraged to come to the border right now and it's you know presents risk to the migrants themselves as well
Preston:
so another aspect of this that I wanted to touch on is the biden administration's reaction to the haitian migrants as opposed to just run-of-the-mill central americans that are applying for asylum um we saw this interestingly enough with cuba as well when the biden administration really seemed to crack down on cubans specifically to get them out of the country and not accommodate them the way that they were accommodating central americans and we sort of saw this with haiti well with the haitians as well they put them on flights back to haiti which is something ice seemingly hasn't done in a long time with central americans um they really made an effort maybe not in practice but at least in the media of trying to shut this down so why do we think the biden administration wanted to almost appear as if they were doing something with the haitians and to an extent cubans while they've really just thrown open the doors to everyone else
Spencer:
well I mean I think a big part of it is just narrative control I mean they're not blind to the fact that every poll from those you know typically perceived as conservative all the way to some of the most radical left-wing you know uncredible pollsters out there all these results are showing you know essentially no one supporting the biden administration on immigration and therefore I mean it doesn't surprise me that they're trying to put a little bit of spin on this narrative but like matthew mentioned you know there are still thousands many thousands of these haitians that are either being released into the interior we don't know what happened they're not all being quickly expelled via title 42 as they honestly should be uh there is just uh significant portion and they're still being resettled also I don't know we might even be comparing apples and oranges comparing that situation to the uh to the to the cuban migrants in southern florida because quite frankly uh migrants fleeing socialism and communism have not particularly been kind to the democratic party they don't serve the interest that the biden administration is looking for and you know we can't claim to know exactly why they chose only to remove all those individuals coming from cuba
Preston:
because it's not about future voters
Spencer:
I was gonna say it's very curious how they seem very quick to expel uh voters who are not going to fall in line with the ideology and with the uh you know the uh um preferred political stances of the mass immigration lobby I think it's also important to know that many of most individuals coming from places like cuba actually have valid concerns uh regarding asylum claims you know that's a very brutal communist dictatorship uh and if anyone that espouses any kind of western values is at very high risk that's very different from individuals who may have left haiti 10-15 years ago have legal status in countries like chile or argentina but then thought oh cool I can get a better job in america and there's no penalty for violating their border laws and so they decide to make the trek here uh so I mean overall I mean just to reinstate my initial point I think most of it has to do with spin control and that's a credit to the american people the voters like you know like all of you listening putting pressure on congress on the biden administration letting them know being very vocal saying we don't support this and we're going to remember it
Matthew:
I think also just shows how inconsistent dhs is under the biden how dhs has been under biden you know really inconsistent policies not only with this you know you're being more aggressive with haitians but not really being as aggressive with people from the northern triangle countries of guatemala honduras and el salvador again those represent the vast majority of people coming to our southern border but let's also not forget you know dhs uh secretary mayorkas is saying uh to migrants you know come don't come late like you know all over the place same thing with title 42 uh saying his administration's saying or his agency rather saying that uh you know they were going to repeal it now they're keeping it in place you know mike was saying yesterday something effect of that they don't support title 42 is an immigration policy they don't embrace it that way so it's just really inconsistent in mixed messaging and it creates a lot of confusion not only for people in our country but you know migrants trying to come here
Preston:
right all right so this is going to be the last question about the situation with the haitians I believe matthew you brought up the point of the caravan that is currently on the way to the southern border that's made up mostly of haitian I assume asylum seekers so you know this just final question on this point we saw caravans as a big part of the 2019 crisis at the border under the trump administration and obviously the trump administration dealt with them in a very different way than I think the biden administration will do either of you all have a sense what biden will try to do with this new caravan I know spencer you brought up the issue with spin control and with media narratives um is there going to be some sort of effort from his administration to pretend like they're doing something about this
Matthew:
in my opinion no I think they're going to be you know just waiting and going to react too late to the situation that they're all the haitians will be here uh in large numbers and it's going to be another disaster like what happened in del rio uh I actually wrote an op-ed for town hall I just recently talked about like three steps that they can do the administration can do to avoid another del rio debacle and you know that starts with uh you know fully applying title 42 the public health order on all haitian migrants don't just apply to single adults apply to uh unaccompanied minors and family units as well increase these flights back to haiti that are deporting these individuals again they have done it to some extent but only to about half of the people that were here in del rio uh last month and you know just restarting a lot of these border deterrent initiatives migrant protection protocols we've talked about the asylum cooperation agreements with the northern triangle countries I mean just these agreements are put in place and immediately ripped out when uh president biden got into office so I don't think they're gonna do anything I think they're just gonna you know wait and see what happens but those are three things that they could do right now to avoid another situation like del rio
Spencer:
right and I think it's important to clarify those are all things that the executive branch can do uh they don't have to you know ask congress to do something wait for it to go through committee over a number of months and then eventually die on the floor I mean this is something they could do right now if they want to it could be done by the end of the day but yeah I think you're right matt you think it's gonna be a little situation just seems like the mo of this uh administration is ignore a problem ignore a problem ignore a problem until a crisis happens and be like whoa where did that come from they're reacting and then react to and then react to and that is not a sign of good or acceptable leadership and it has it has to change I mean it's like you said there's no sign of it changing but you know what point do concurrent crises you know destroy an organization like dhs we're already seeing border patrol agents resign in record numbers because they did not sign up to become a welcoming committee for individuals who are breaking our laws you know and that's essentially what they've become and so I know it seems like every podcast would come on here and say you know could the biden administration do this any worse and then they seem to outdo themselves but yeah it just doesn't seem like there are any signs of that slowing down or stopping
Preston:
and speaking of concurrent crises uh let's move on to our second topic um which also deals with what we're seeing at the border the yuma sector of the southwest border has seen an explosion of apprehensions uh in just one year apprehensions soared by 2,400 percent so the numbers behind that in august 2020 officials apprehended just 684 people in august 2021 they apprehended 17,097 so this obviously has a lot to do with policy changes that have occurred in the past year uh it isn't just yuma we've seen explosion of apprehensions ever since the biden administration took over but I want to talk about what's happening in yuma this is in arizona it has shifted away from the other sectors of the border in texas that kind of used to be the epicenter so I wanted to get your guys thoughts on why now it appears that there's so many more apprehensions moving towards that sector of the border
Matthew:
yeah it's definitely strange I mean when we think of the biden border crisis you know we think of the del rio sector rio grande valley sector those have been the hot spots for sure in the past year but this has strangely become one quietly and I think there's probably a lot of reasons why this is happening obviously all across the border uh human smugglers are observing what the biden administration is doing with immigration and border policies and they're trying to find uh sectors that are actually probably quieter in the sense that there's you know fewer migrants there less border patrol presence you know all the attention right now is in you know southern texas so that could be partially why that these human smugglers are starting to map out okay well this sector is kind of you know it's quieter than what we're seeing in texas let's maybe start um transitioning over here um but again you know this is widespread you know in almost every border sector we're seeing record numbers of apprehensions again why uh president biden has rescinded the migrant protection protocols program halted the vast majority of wall construction again terminated the asylum cooperation agreements we'll talk about later about these um ice enforcement memos basically saying if you're here illegally you're not going to be removed so combined all these things I mean they tell migrants hey you know now is the time to come and um yeah I mean it shouldn't be a shock that we're seeing these uh numbers surge
Preston:
and something unique about yuma too has been the number of extra-continental illegal aliens that we've seen coming in through yuma and this was a topic that we discussed on the podcast a few weeks ago was this phenomenon um spencer you know we're seeing this growth of extra-continental illegal aliens there was a report in the wall street journal uh this morning um discussing how many people now are flying to mexico get into mexico city and then just waltz on up to the border why are we seeing this I know we talked about this but particularly in yuma is there anything aside from kind of what matthew said that's drawing these people here
Spencer:
well first of all I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that it's easier to come to the united states illegally right now than it is to come in even if you are even if you have a you know some form of visa or status because for the most part our borders are still closed to legal immigrants and laughably we just saw an announcement come out where the biden administration said that in november they're going to reopen the border to uh you know non-essential travel and anyone who's watching is going on the border would be like wait it's closed well yeah it's closed to people who come here the right way right and it's very open to people who don't so that's one reason you're seeing a lot of individuals opting like well I you know I can't come to the united states right now whether to see my family or to work the right way so you know even if even if I have the means the capability even the status to come to the united states appropriately I can't do so right now so I’m just going to come and do it illegally it's easier that way the other thing this is a lot more concerning to me is if you look at crime statistics you know criminal illegal alien apprehensions those often happen in sectors where there's you know less border patrol presence less traffic traditionally areas like the yuma sector and while we haven't seen hard numbers on this yet I’m waiting to see what percentage of these individuals are either on anything from you know suspected gang members and drug traffickers all the way up to people who may be on a terror watch list we have seen individuals on those watch lists get apprehended you know whether it's at our own border we also recently saw a report where a number of individuals with terror connections were apprehended down in panama you know individuals that come from south america traverse through that area and eventually come to the united states so I think that's even of a bigger concern because what we're seeing a lot of right now is um these gang organizations are very smart the individuals that are just paying them to come to the united states for economic reasons they essentially dump them all into one area which right now is in texas you end up the biden administration is reacting exactly how they thought they would they dump all of their resources into those areas again to act as a welcoming committee to process individuals bringing the united states and while all those border agents are doing that out somewhere else where there are now fewer border agents and it's less likely they'll be caught that's where they do the nefarious stuff that's when the bats where the bad people come in that's where the criminals come in that's where the drug trafficking happens so again if history serves as any purpose it should not come as a shock if we see that crime statistics in the yuma sector increase as this increase now there's often a lag in discovering that but that's another concern that I have and I think it's it's a reason why that area should not just be ignored right now
Preston:
absolutely and I’ll before we move on to our final segment I just want to leave our listeners with this in 11 months of the 2021 fiscal year customs and border protection apprehended over 1.5 million people for reference in all of 2020 of the fiscal of that fiscal year we only apprehended 458,000 um and a lot of that was due to covid but that's still that's and that's all that's well over a million more people that have been apprehended in just 11 months the last time there was a serious border crisis of this magnitude in 2019 under the trump administration there were less than a million people apprehended for the full year so that again through only 11 months of this fiscal year we've apprehended over 1.5 million people that number is going to grow when we get the final data right it's likely going to be over 1.7 so yeah it's a historic amount of people that are coming to the us and it is directly related to what the biden administration has done since they took over in january uh 2021. um and speaking of again other things that the byte administration has done to accommodate and encourage illegal immigration the department of homeland security has released some new policy uh from the secretary alejandro mayorkas and as you can imagine it is not good mayorkas just announced new enforcement guidelines for ice um these pretty much tell ice officers who they can and cannot arrest and prioritize for removal dhs released these new guidelines and you know they're really something else under the guidance essentially unless you're a terrorist you get to remain in the country uh and in a separate second um memorandum that he released they essentially stopped all work site enforcement so the two of these memos taken together who in the united states that's living here illegally is really being deported this is essentially it's not ice may still be standing um but it appears that they've used these two executive policies to essentially abolish the purpose of ice which is to arrest detain and remove illegal aliens in the interior of the united states
Spencer:
well you know some I feel like this is very tactically created uh this this policy change because the intention here again is to apprehend and deport as few individuals as possible and since it takes years for immigration judges to hear a case due to the backlog of cases which again is caused because the administration has put in place policies that invite more individuals to come to the united states you could claim that almost any illegal alien by the time they have their cases heard have lived here for quote a lengthy presence you know it's likely going to be one to five years at that point and the other main reason it takes so long to process one of these cases besides the fact that there are millions a backlog of over a million in the court right now you've also got mass immigration advocates that harass judges file meritless motions lie in court and overall make it very hard for them to do their job along with the fact that you've got mass immigration politicians uh putting in place policies that make this process worse so essentially in a way you could interpret this as ice saying yeah we created a massive issue and our solution is to tell them we're not going to punish you which is only going to make the issue even worse and of course the other thing I found interesting here real quick was the note that uh you know individuals who have mental issues will not be removed and on the surface well that sounds that sounds honorable you know you don't necessarily know and other issues the united states doesn't like to punish individuals who might have a mental condition but the language of this was crafted so it could be interpreted extreme in an extreme broad manner you know again making the trek you know traversing from you know central america even mexico to the united states is extremely dangerous and I mean it's the type of thing that could uh you know cause ptsd or other mental or anxiety issues and even the strongest person so again you're kind of crafting something that could be interpreted to say well essentially the mass the vast majority of individuals who are crossing the border illegally could qualify for this kind of relief so you could argue that this is essentially telling ice you can't deport anyone except maybe mass murderers and looking at the way this is written I could make an argument that you can't even deport a mass murder
Preston:
right because um and I’m reading I’m about to read directly from the document we have it in front of us so this is this is quoting from this ice enforcement guidance there can be mitigating factors that militate in favor of declining enforcement action such factors can include for example advanced or tender age lengthy presence in the united states a mental condition that may have contributed to the criminal conduct or a physical or a mental condition requiring care or treatment the impact of removal on family in the united states such as loss of provider or caregiver so essentially you can make the argument that if someone goes on a deranged rampage because of an existing mental condition kills multiple people but if they have a family in the u.s they're over the age of like 65 uh and they have this mental condition they're not going anywhere I mean they'll probably be in a u.s jail but yeah um aside from they're not being deported under this guidance no and of course if they're if they're ruled they can't be deported and they're going to stay in a u.s mental facility or u.s jail again that it's not like our incarceration system is not overloaded as it is an extreme burden on american taxpayers uh it's you know either way this is not something that's beneficial to americans and it's honestly not beneficial to most migrants either
Matthew:
you know if people are wondering our listeners you know why is there a border crisis why are we seeing these uh apprehension totals the way that we're seeing them right now I mean it's it's stuff like this I mean it's like almost every month dhs secretary Mayrokas they release these memos that are virtually protect all illegal aliens from being removed from the country arrested and yeah again that's a magnet for people to come to our country illegally and it's no-brainer I mean I just you know these keep coming out and out and there's there's no deterrent put in place um so I just I don't understand if they're really trying to gain control regain control of the border why issue something like this maybe they're not even trying to regain control of the border that's the goal
Spencer:
for the most part I don't want to give the administration uh undue credit and say that they've got their ducks in a row but a lot of this is so intentional yeah I mean it's it's habitual for you know government bureaucrats to write thousand page bills where every single thing is written out in detail but in this case they just use a couple of sentences to make something extremely over broad that's completely intentional so that they basically have the leeway to do whatever they want which at this point is to not remove individuals that are in the u.s illegally again I think a lot of this is this is what our extreme our extreme left-wing base wants and the biden administration has shown time and time again that they're going to give them whatever they want and then they're playing they know it's going to turn into a crisis and like we mentioned earlier like you mentioned earlier matthew they're just going to react to whatever crisis happens oh well we'll deal with that you know whatever the whenever the crisis comes up or not deal with it then
Preston:
so something that fair has advocated for a long time is the increased use of work site enforcement both to crack down on employers that are hiring illegal aliens instead of americans but also because you have a great opportunity to identify detain and remove a large number of illegal aliens at one time you know this is a two-pronged approach where you're cracking down both on the presence of illegal aliens but you're also punishing these employers and holding them accountable for the fact that they were hiring illegal aliens in the first place this second piece of guidance from ice tells ice officers to cease mass worksite operations and I’m quoting from this given our concerns please ensure we no longer conduct mass worksite operations and instead refocus our workplace enforcement efforts to better accomplish the goals outlined in this document so this is re this is really big news the trump administration in my opinion actually didn't use worksite enforcement enough but they did have a few notable cases of it for instance the chicken processing plants I believe in mississippi right um yeah but and even then they could have gone much harder against those employers in my opinion but you know this is another instance of the biden administration accommodating illegal aliens accommodating employers that hire them that rely on paying them almost nothing to you know to work so um I wanted to get your guys thoughts on this in addition to what we've just been talking about with the other ice guidance because I think this is a this is a huge change in policy
Matthew:
yeah I mean it's an absolute joke I mean to say the least put it bluntly but um you know this is something again that's going to serve as a magnet for illegal immigration uh you know when you have more illegal aliens working in this country it's going to affect american wages likely to press them significantly and just it shows you where the administration's priorities are at I mean they literally see no problem with someone working here illegally they're trying to protect them at all costs from removal now but with better wages working conditions I mean there is no in their mind illegal versus legal person I’m convinced of that
Spencer:
right and that policy is why you're seeing so many lawful migrants you know areas like in south texas and in florida rejecting you know these politicians voting for their opponents because they don't want to be lumped in with individuals who violate the law but you know I think first of all it concerns me that the biden administration seems to think that there are these quote mass worksite enforcement you know raids going on because we looked I think if you look at the most recent report on this which was from 2018 I think it was fewer than 2,000 individuals that were uh that were it was a very small part yeah less than 2,000 administrative and criminal arrests resulting from uh worksite enforcement keep in mind there are more than 14 million illegal aliens in the united states right now so that qualifying (most of whom are working) most of them are working the vast majority of those coming the united states illegally right now are economic migrants those that are coming for work exclusively that's going to become an even bigger issue if they know that ice isn't even allowed to you know look into employers that are illegally hiring individuals and that is going to make a lot more employers do that and you know preston you brought up the example of the uh of the poultry processing plant in uh mississippi that was raided and that example alone completely deconstructs the narrative of well we need illegal aliens because we need you know individuals that will do jobs supposedly americans won't after that took place that poultry farm had a job fair and they had multiple times more the applicants than they had positions available and there were individuals coming and said man I’ve been looking for work for years right there was one individual an elderly uh black man who said he had been unemployed for quite a long time and had applied three times before to that poultry plant a u.s citizen who was looking for work who did not get work because this plant insisted on hiring illegal aliens he was willing to go work the wages that they were offering which were depressed because they were hiring illegal aliens to have u.s citizens and they said no they said we don't have a spot for you and he was coming in he was like I hope the fourth time's the charm I heard that they you know got rid of those that weren't allowed to work here and I’m hoping I can get a job now that could that narrative is just false and now essentially the biden administration is steering into that and comically they said oh we'd rather focus on abusive labor practices instead of the hiring of illegal aliens as if the reason these individuals are hiring illegal aliens they can get away with paying people less than a living wage
Preston:
and treating them like absolute garbage when they're working for them as well because they see right these companies see them as completely disposable and just completely dispensable
Spencer:
right and they and up at least up until this point these illegal aliens could not uh compete openly in the labor market they had just limited opportunity and employers knew this that's why they paid them less they paid them less than minimum wage in many cases and you know could treat them however they wanted because what are these people what are these illegal aliens going to do you know are they going to you know report them to you know osha or to you know some labor board are they going to quit and go somewhere that gives better wages I mean the reason this whole issue exists is because of nefarious employers who want to undercut the market
Preston:
exactly and you know I really think that is a great point to end today's discussion on for everyone listening at home we hope that you enjoyed today's episode I want to also encourage everyone to listen to our previous episode where we interviewed a number of guests live from our annual hold their feet to the fire radio row event it was a really cool episode we interviewed a lot of former trump administration officials and we interviewed our very own matthew tragesser who put the event together so I encourage everyone to check that episode out and if you liked this podcast be sure to subscribe leave us a review and share it with your friends and family for more information on fair and our mission please visit fairus.org or find us on twitter @fairimmigration and on facebook until next time this has been the understanding immigration podcast presented by fair