Hardcover Live


In this conversation, Adam and Ste discuss their initial impressions of the Apple Vision Pro and its potential use cases. They explore the challenges of typing and using the keyboard in a virtual reality environment. They also discuss the comfort and health considerations of using the device for extended periods. The conversation then shifts to building a reading journal feature within the app and designing the reading journal page. They also discuss additional functionality for the reading journal, such as copying entries and flagging content. In this conversation, Adam and Ste discuss various design elements for their note-taking app. They explore the idea of adding mentions for characters and things, including different avatars for characters based on gender. They also discuss privacy settings for journals and the possibility of deleting entire journals. The conversation then moves on to adding quotes, with a discussion on how to style and reference them. They conclude by discussing next steps and iteration, as well as adding book indicators and tabs, and showing the latest and most liked updates.


Consider adding mentions for characters and things in your note-taking app, with different avatars for characters based on gender.
Implement privacy settings for journals, allowing users to control the visibility of their notes.
Provide the option to add quotes in notes, with the ability to style and reference them.
Plan for next steps and iteration in the design process, focusing on adding book indicators and tabs, as well as showing the latest and most liked updates.


00:00 Introduction and Initial Impressions
03:00 Challenges with Typing and Keyboard
06:00 Comfort and Health Considerations
09:00 Potential Use Cases and Future Developments
17:00 Building a Reading Journal Feature
20:00 Designing the Reading Journal Page
36:00 Adding Updates to the Reading Journal
43:00 Additional Functionality for the Reading Journal
45:17 Mentions for Characters and Things
48:20 Privacy Settings
51:12 Adding Quotes
55:06 Styling Quotes
57:34 References for Quotes
01:03:32 Next Steps and Iteration
01:04:20 Book Indicators and Tabs
01:06:06 Latest and Most Liked Updates

What is Hardcover Live?

Each week Adam & Ste focus on a specific feature, idea or prototype in Hardcover and iterate on it together or with guests.

Adam (00:01.943)
Hey, hey, stay. How's it going?

Ste (00:04.735)
Pretty good. How about you?

Adam (00:07.854)
Pretty good. Having fun just messing around with the Apple Vision Pro this week.

Ste (00:15.649)
Ah yeah, I bet that's a cheat. How have you been handling it?

Adam (00:18.51)
Yeah. Well, so far it's my first ever like VR device I've ever had. I didn't have a Quest or any of the other ones. And I still haven't like gamed on it aside from some, some basic demos, just to see how they work, like balloons, DD six, or there was like a music game where you're like moving to the rhythm kind of thing. Um, but mostly I tried like working on hardcover with it.

And that was, I had some mixed results with that.

Ste (00:48.969)

Okay, how come?

Adam (00:56.302)
Well, for one, I realize I'm not 100% a touch typer. And there's something about using the camera and looking down at my keyboard to work, and it's enough friction that it's not fun to look down at the keyboard.

Ste (01:16.851)
Yeah, I bet. So you had like the virtual keyboard as well, not like the actual keyboard. Oh, okay, gotcha.

Adam (01:21.95)
No, it was a real keyboard. So yeah, I wasn't, the virtual keyboard is much worse.

Ste (01:28.527)
Yeah, I bet. I mean, it didn't look from the demos I've seen, it didn't look like particularly usable at all.

Adam (01:36.394)
Yeah, I have a feeling maybe if you like put it down right on a flat surface and then you're, you're not using your eyes to do it. You're like typing with your fingers maybe, but yeah.

Ste (01:49.335)
Yeah, might be an acquired skill, I don't know. I mean, I've had trouble adjusting to foam keyboards as well.

But, you know, I've seen younger people, let's say, like really type the hell out of that. So those are some skills I definitely don't have. So yeah, I imagine with the virtual one, I saw people like doing lots of this kind of thing, but it seemed like pretty shaky.

Adam (02:22.002)
Yeah, I think there's the immersive mode, so you can dial in how much you want to be able to see your background. And if you dial that all the way in, you can't even see your hands on the keyboard. So it's like, you have to be really good at touch typing. And I've noticed that I have one of the Apple keyboards with the really, these things, with the very thin letters. So it's kind of easy for your hands to get lost.

Ste (02:46.543)
Okay, yeah. Uh huh.


Adam (02:53.238)
But yeah, I've been considering getting one of those split keyboards.

Ste (02:58.947)
Oh yeah, I've seen those. Those should be like better. I mean marginally better for coding, I guess. But I mean, yeah, it's like you've actually like did it a bunch. Did like, did you have like next train or that kind of stuff? Does that happen?

Adam (03:19.662)
I didn't really feel neck strain. I think my eyes were a little dry because like you imagine like there's a, like a bubble around your eyes and it heats up over time with the screen. So, but I only noticed that a little bit. Like it wasn't like it was burning hot inside there even after three or four hours. But I think it's probably good to take a lot of breaks, more than you probably think you need.

Ste (03:22.071)

Ste (03:29.181)

Oh yeah.

Ste (03:48.939)
Yeah, well, then again, it's good to do that while you're working as well. I try to like, sit up as much as I can, maybe grab a glass of water and that kind of stuff. But I mean, this would give you an extra incentive to do that, I guess.

Adam (04:07.262)
Yeah. I was, I was thinking about making like a sample app for it just to learn a bit about it and like on my desk, I have, uh, this hourglass that I use for standing and sitting, so I was thinking about doing something like this in like 3d. And that's all it does. Duh. And.

Ste (04:13.931)
Uh huh.

Ste (04:27.943)
Wow, okay, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, definitely. Can you like screenshot stuff while you're in VR? Like take a video of like what's happening? Okay.

Adam (04:29.93)
So it would be a good like learning app.

Adam (04:40.126)
Yeah, yeah, you can take a video or a screenshot.

Ste (04:44.239)
Okay, that sounds great. Yeah. The immersive thing, like really looked amazing, like dialing everything out when you need to get focused, that looked like a feature that I definitely would use. Have you tried like reading on it? Like any apps that do that? Or I'm assuming they, they have Apple News and that kind of stuff.

Adam (05:11.838)
I tried browsing Reddit on it and things like that for reading, but not so much like an actual book or like an ebook yet.

Ste (05:21.211)
Yeah, I'm wondering how that goes. I mean, yeah, tough to say if it's like good or bad. That's why I was a bit curious.

Adam (05:21.335)

Adam (05:33.042)
Yeah. The one thing that I wanted to be able to do on it where maybe you're able to put it on and then like look over your library and see like a social information about each book. That's not possible today with the permissions that are available for developers, like they've locked it down. So you can't get like information on what the user is looking at right now.

Ste (05:59.159)
Okay, gotcha. So you can't like do stuff like see your library or that kind of stuff, or is it more for like more sensitive private stuff?

Adam (06:10.75)
It's more like, um, you can't. You, uh, like you as a developer can't see what the person is seeing in their real, real life. Like you, like they could take a photo and upload it, but you can't get a video feed to be able to work with that video feed.

Ste (06:21.206)

Ste (06:30.251)
Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, well, it's only like, not even, it's a couple of days out, so. I was remembering how, I mean, I don't even think I remember when the first iPhone was out. I've seen like that keynote a couple of times, and it's like amazing, but I think the first iPhone I had was an iPhone 8, and I was thinking, you know, if, I don't know, someone.

Adam (06:36.971)

Ste (06:58.459)
would get like the eighth generation of this, the eighth generation I think is going to be like in a whole other place than what it is now. Even Tim Cook said that, you know, it's basically tomorrow tech today and that's why, you know, it's like such a huge thing. And I think like they kind of like pushed it a bit earlier because meta like plays the right...

bets as well. Zuck really like nailed it with the quest. So yeah, I've seen they had a patent for it since 2007. So I've seen the patent and it was actually connected to an iPod. So imagine that they were planning and it was like really similar in shape to what they got out. But yeah, it was connected to an iPod, the patent.

Adam (07:53.614)
Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. The, the thing that's probably like the most, like one of the most wow things for me is just how easy and comfortable it feels to just use your fingers to like move things around in 3d space, like just like this, like just like looking at things and dragging on is, is like as easy as clicking on a window and moving it. In fact, it feels like it's even easier because

Ste (07:56.176)

Ste (08:15.345)

Adam (08:23.914)
like click, like when you go to the corner of a window in like Mac OS and you wait for those like diagonal arrows to show up before you resize it, it's a similar experience to that, except you see like a little corner, a rounded corner, and then you click when you see the rounded corner, and then you can just start changing the size. But that plus like moving windows and being able to move them farther away and closer, it's...

Ste (08:29.654)

Ste (08:46.303)
Well, yeah.

Adam (08:53.258)
Like, I feel like the bones of it are really good, but yeah, I'm wondering like what the killer app is going to be that people end up like everyone wanting to get like for the computers, it was like the internet.

Ste (08:57.042)

Ste (09:06.715)
Yeah, exactly. I think we're gonna wait a while until that's... I mean, it's still very, very early, so...

I'd be surprised if like it gets like any kind of, I mean, I've seen people get hyped about very different things and you know, even all the people I've talked to, I mean, even you and I think are like really hyped about different parts of it. So that's kind of neat, but yeah, the gestures I think are mind boggling.

when they actually bring them to Europe, I think it's gonna be... I mean, it's not natural even when you're with a phone. The natural movement is just having stuff around you. As weird as that might seem, but I think in two years we'll be in a very different place than we are now.

considering it's weird to do this. I've seen people on the street, I don't know if they were paid or not, but I've seen them get out of cars or walking across a crossing and just doing this with their arms, with the vision on their head. That was fun. Yeah.

Adam (10:12.718)
Thanks for watching!

Adam (10:30.346)
Man, yeah, I haven't, I have yet to encounter someone in the real world with it, but yeah, it's been raining the last couple of days, so. So.

Ste (10:39.224)
Well, yeah, as soon as that stops. Hahaha. Yeah.

Adam (10:44.354)
and like go to a coffee shop and bring it. And I don't think I want to be that person.

Ste (10:48.475)
yeah well I mean I think it's gonna be way more present very soon I mean I kept thinking about you know places where I have my hands busy for instance with a kid so

You know, it would be nice, maybe not like a whole like thing on my face, but if it would be glasses, like Google glasses, man, that would be like, if it ever comes to being like that, that's going to be like very, very interesting. Yeah. And reading is going to be, I think, pretty, a very good use case because I'm trying to like read physical books with the.

Adam (11:25.056)

Ste (11:36.563)
baby, my left hand, book in right hand. And yeah, I mean, it does work. And I'm exercising my muscles as well, but that's a five minute thing. Then you have to switch hands. He's reaching out to the book, which is fun, but yeah, another thing, you know, that's actually comfortable doing. Yeah, so I was actually thinking while I was doing that, man, if I could have like something like,

Adam (12:01.607)

Ste (12:07.643)
in front of me without that, you know, that'd be like pretty, pretty neat. Or when you're sitting in your bed at night and you don't want to be like this with a book or like, well, audio books. Yeah. Solve that. Maybe I have to get into audio books.

Adam (12:07.968)

Adam (12:16.426)

Adam (12:25.362)
Yeah, like the other day, like my wife and I were just cuddling in bed. She was kind of asleep on my lap and I had my vision pro on and I was watching some videos on like Swift development. Like, and you know, I couldn't do that on a laptop because, you know, I didn't have space and if I was even had an iPad, it would be like way over here awkwardly. This way I was just able to kind of sit back comfortably and just.

Ste (12:42.544)

Ste (12:47.358)

Ste (12:51.048)

Ste (12:55.363)
Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of ways. Yeah, that's like very, very useful. Airplanes are definitely like a thing I'd get it for. I mean, the next iterations are definitely going to be like killer for, I mean, that for me would be like, like the killer and I don't travel that often, but.

Adam (13:09.901)

Ste (13:22.507)
they would definitely change flights.

Adam (13:27.13)
We're going to Korea in April this year, and I've been debating if I should bring it, but also not just for the flight, but because there are live language translation apps. So I could be like walking around and someone could be talking to me in Korean and it would be subtitled in English, which is really cool by itself. Aside from how awkward I would be, and I wouldn't be able to respond to them in Korean. I would only be able to hear what they're saying.

Ste (13:44.127)
Wow, okay.


Ste (13:53.859)
Well, still, I mean, at least they figured out like one way of how the dialogue should go. I think it's just like an implementation problem till they figure out the talking back part.

Adam (14:01.155)

Ste (14:11.667)
You could do that with chat GPT. I'm learning French and I'm talking with GPT in French and it's a really messy process because yeah, sometimes I'm just like getting English words in there and I'm just starting to speak in French and then I'm saying and yeah, they had a other and how do you say whatever word and yet, uh, it responds in French because yeah, that those were the initial instructions, but that's like a really good way.

Adam (14:18.126)
I mean it.

Ste (14:41.761)
I think it's the best way. It beats Duolingo by far. So yeah and I'm just doing that with the voice thing. Yeah.

Adam (14:51.558)
No. Yeah. Huh.

Yeah, I haven't. That's a cool use case. Does it, does it seem pretty accurate? Like does, has it led you down any inaccurate paths?

Ste (15:03.665)

So really so far, I think for language, I mean, it's common conversation. I'm just like telling it how my day went and I'm asking it to ask me stuff in French so I can reply and the initial instructions were to correct me whenever I say something wrong. And I'm also doing that in writing. So whenever I type something, it tells me if I typed it incorrectly and then it answers my questions.

I'm surprisingly good at picking up context, so if I'm trying to say something and I'm expecting an answer back, that's why I was saying it was messy, because I might have, like, first part of the sentence in French, the middle part in English, and the ending in French, and it can still give me the word I was looking for, or the phrase.

Adam (16:04.266)
Yeah, that's pretty impressive for a live large language model.

Ste (16:05.311)
Not bad.

Ste (16:11.743)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like out there. I saw Duolingo like implement a special plan for like AI, basically what I'm doing now, but I think they like pre-programmed it, but it's really good.

Adam (16:30.883)

Ste (16:32.254)

Adam (16:33.514)
Man. Yeah. I always think about what are the other use cases to use something like ChatTPT for locally, but it's not the first tool I go to solve something. So yeah, it would be neat to try to think more about it.

Ste (16:52.675)
Yeah, I've been using it a lot. I mean, maybe more than I should have, but it's yeah, exactly. I mean, you got to figure out what to ask it. I think that's the challenge.

Adam (17:07.71)
Yeah, the watch, the watch demo that you made looked really cool. Like you, you created a whole like, like a Apple watch, like app for hardcover, like prototype it. How was that?

Ste (17:13.404)
Oh yeah.

Ste (17:20.719)
Uh huh, yeah, and that was like...

Well, that was like, again, I don't know any Swift. I mean, I did a course like three years ago, but yeah, basically I don't know any Swift because stuff changed a lot since then. So I just asked it. And the cool thing is that you can share photos. So I didn't even like tell it about the errors. I just screenshot the errors I had and the app structure and Xcode. And I pasted them in ChatGPT.

and asked it to generate.

I also pasted the design, so I asked it to generate the app structure based on my design that I made in Figma. And then I just started debugging the errors, and I think it took about three hours to reach that point where it was, I made an app where you could see your current reading books,

Ste (18:26.893)
and the reading session. And I mean, theoretically, the hard part would be to link it to hardcover. But I think if we actually saw a major use in building that, which I'm not sure exists yet, but would just

take like the data linking because the interface was really, I mean, and for something, which I had no idea how to build. I mean, it went great. Yeah. I'm, I think the trick is being like really in really insists on getting an answer because sometimes it's just horrible. It just like doesn't do stuff. And it could.

Adam (19:00.509)
Wow. That's really cool.

Ste (19:18.675)
potentially give you answers based on older documentation. That's like the problem. And you get some errors saying that's deprecated for instance, and you have to tell it, well, browse the latest documentation and give me like.

Adam (19:33.417)

Ste (19:39.323)
What's the code for this, the latest version. And it does that, but yeah, you really have to like grab it by its neck sometimes.

Adam (19:50.89)
Man, yeah, it's pretty neat. Ha.

Ste (19:56.377)
Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, and should we jump to the build session for the reading journal?

Adam (19:59.191)

Adam (20:04.894)
Yeah, sounds good. Let's go.

Ste (20:10.515)
Yeah. So last week, should we do, let's do a recap for what we did last week. Maybe you can bring up the chart. So we started planning out the reading journal, which is a way for readers to add notes.

Adam (20:22.067)

Ste (20:35.899)
for a book as they're reading it or before they're reading it or after they're reading it. So basically it's your journal for that book and yeah this is what we mapped out last time. Lots of stuff in there.

Adam (20:52.882)
all these different post types, kind of where this would show up within the, within hardcover, potentially from like your own journal page or from the book page and be able to click, click over to it real quickly from the books you're currently reading, or kind of some of the takeaways that I had.

Ste (21:18.147)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, those are good. So basically when I think the most useful use case would be like when you're reading and you just want to submit a quote or note so you don't forget something or you want to come back to it and you just go on the app in your currently reading, you tap the book cover and you just jump into writing the note.

and then you can post it. So I think, yeah, should we jump in and build that today? Try actually designing it.

Adam (21:50.463)
Yeah, exactly.

Adam (21:57.778)
Yeah. Yeah, let's see how far we can get in a half hour for something like that.

Ste (22:04.751)
Yeah, sounds great. Okay, so let me share my screen and...

Ste (22:12.951)
Here's the Figma tab, where is it?

Ste (22:28.819)
Here we go. Okay. So, here we go. As you can see, we did some preliminary stuff that consisted of taking some recommendations from our roadmap to...

Ste (22:56.259)
see how a journal could look like. This is actually like done by our readers, which we thank for like giving us so thorough suggestions. It's really helpful. And I also brought this thing in because we kind of have a history over here that I was thinking we could maybe integrate with this, but I'm not...

Adam (23:10.385)

Ste (23:25.911)
So sure. So the starting point for me was just bringing a bit of data and I was trying to see so when your entry point is the actual book, let's say you're reading the about the song, songbirds and snakes.

maybe you would go journals and here you would see your journal and maybe then you'd see other people's journals and that was like so this would be yours and this would be someone else's. But this was like only the first thought I had.

for the sentry point. And I want to ask you, Adam, do you think this is a valid, let's say, way you'd navigate to your journals? Were you imagining it the same way?

Adam (24:27.538)
Yeah, I think this is kind of how you would navigate if you were not so much looking for your own journal, but if you were looking for someone else's journal.

Adam (24:41.214)
I could see jumping straight to your journal straight from the book button. Um, but yeah, not, not sure exactly, but some way of getting there straight from there.

Ste (24:47.563)
Something like this, right?

Ste (24:54.715)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that sounds good. So maybe let's bring in the book button as well. So we have that. Here we go. So this would be the book button on mobile. And which one's the latest? Let's say this one. When you have no status or let's say this one. And it would be.

Adam (24:56.226)
but uh.

Ste (25:23.571)
somewhere, maybe under update progress if you're currently reading. We could have something that brings it to our book journal, but yeah.

Adam (25:34.066)
I think, yeah, I think the status or like the journal could exist whether regardless of what status it's in, whether it's something you've never encountered before or something you're reading something you've already read. Some.

Ste (25:49.123)
Okay, so let's say you have no status, which is no status. This one. You're saying basically add another thing in here, which would be add log or reading journey. How should we name it? It should be like a status, right?

Adam (26:16.63)
I don't think it would be a status because you could have a log regardless of what state your book's in. So I'm kind of thinking about it almost like the same way we have like a writer review and dates read. We could have like reading journal as well. So I'm thinking like here's a...

Ste (26:34.537)
Uh huh.

Adam (26:46.586)
Here's what it looks like on production right now.

Adam (26:52.361)

Ste (26:54.931)
Oh yeah.

Adam (26:58.166)
I was thinking something almost like in this middle area, this is kind of like your state for this book. It feels like it's related to these three in some way, more than anything else.

Ste (27:07.051)

Ste (27:16.383)
Yeah, that's right. Maybe we should put it. Yeah, that sounds good. I was thinking maybe we could combine it with like, you're either writing the review, but that's like after you finish the book or you're adding an update to the journal that's like either before or during reading the book. So would it make sense to combine it? So that's, uh.

Adam (27:18.27)
Aside from maybe the update progress at the top.

Adam (27:24.686)
Thanks for watching!

Ste (27:46.027)
the write a review would be like the last step in like parts of your reading journey. So you're like maybe submitting a reason why you wanna read the book, then you start reading that book, then you post updates as you're reading the book. And then when you're finished with the book, you write a review. Is there any other order that would like be more accurate to that process?

Adam (28:15.47)
Um, no, I mean, that sounds, that sounds right. Sometimes they might skip from no status to I'm writing a review. Like, and then that would kind of, but I think that would work for what you described as well.

Ste (28:27.317)

Ste (28:31.339)
Yeah, I think it would be like the problem here with that it would be a bit unclear if like we skip this write review and just like put a journal in there, add to journal and then I mean they'd have to both be there right? So I was thinking like write a review could be add to

Adjournal entry or something like that. Yeah, writer review I guess should be there as well.

Adam (29:14.817)
What about something like...

Adam (29:23.55)
And then, but and then without the without the right button. So it's, it's clear. It's like going to a new page.

Ste (29:23.804)
Okay, I like that, yeah.

Ste (29:32.527)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's not bad.

Adam (29:35.714)
but then we'd still need like the.

I feel like this isn't a replacement for add or review. It's more of a supplementary thing.

Ste (29:50.526)

Adam (29:56.83)
Yeah, I'm trying to think of how we can do this without adding a new item, but I'm not sure.

Ste (29:57.835)
So it's already like a long, yeah. I mean, then again, it's really functional. So you can do everything from this button. That's...

Ste (30:19.679)
That's the tricky part. So we still have writer review over here, but we also have open reading journal. Maybe you can put them side by side somehow without, I mean.

Ste (30:36.643)
or have one underneath the other. Would there be a more subtle way of doing that? Maybe just like having an icon that people can associate with the reading journal. Let's see, let me put, do we have a journal in here?

Ste (31:01.229)
We don't have a journal. Let's just put this for now. So this is your reading journal.

Ste (31:15.423)
Yeah, it should say open reading journal or maybe reading journal and have some updates next to it.

Adam (31:31.478)
Or another option is that, so this would be a bigger change, but we get rid of dates read altogether from here and we add that as reading journal, dot, dot. And then on the reading journal page, that's where you enter your dates read. So you're not entering dates read in a pop-up.

Ste (31:43.988)

Ste (31:48.927)

Ste (32:00.035)
Mm-hmm We've seen people have trouble with that so I'm all for that I don't know if I mean Let's see

Adam (32:14.002)
It does get really hard to select an addition in the pop-up. Like that is, that's, that to me is like the hardest part of the whole experience in within the entire book button, within every window within the book button, selecting the addition for dates read is the hardest experience.

Ste (32:18.595)
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Ste (32:31.887)
Mm-hmm Yeah Let's then take it out and put it in the journal. I mean it makes sense That's a whole new page here

Adam (32:41.635)
Yeah, and we could still have it on the book page as well to set dates read there, because that's a standalone page as well, but as like a quick one if you don't wanna go to your journal, but yeah, I think, yeah.

Ste (32:53.935)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, plus, I mean, the feedback from people was that editing their dates read was more like a bulk action they do on the list page. So adding that functionality and making it like really easy to do that from your library, so from your Redbooks.

if you are on the list page just being able to change the date rate right from there, I think that would be like, yeah, the easiest way to change these. Because when you're reading a book, yeah, it doesn't make sense to have that there.

Adam (33:44.615)
Yeah, I think that's sounding like the best solution for how to get there or how to integrate it into this button. And then that journal page becomes kind of like the hub for your reading journey. But I guess the only concern I would have is if people would know, like when they open up the book button, when they see reading journal, if they would know that's where they go to edit.

and create their dates read.

Ste (34:14.551)
Hmm, yeah good question. Maybe if we make this icon on the calendar It would make it like a little bit easier

Adam (34:23.66)

Adam (34:28.125)
Or are we just say like.

Ste (34:28.332)
so that yeah.

Ste (34:34.863)
Well, not a big fan of that. Yeah, plus it's two things and like one button should say and do one thing. Uh, even if, I mean, it can be a temporary thing, but then again, yeah, maybe, I mean, it's pretty similar to how it is now. So I think people would, uh, associated with the same thing. I mean, readers who have gotten used to, uh,

Adam (34:37.46)
That's a lot of text. Yeah, that looks.

Adam (34:42.551)

Ste (35:03.615)
doing that on hardcover, they just tap that and see they have their date threads over there. So I'm guessing this wouldn't be such a big challenge.

Adam (35:21.726)
Yeah, I was looking for how to move that one over to the side, but I guess that means you need two frames.

Ste (35:26.707)
Oh yeah, unfortunately, it's exactly as it is in code.

Adam (35:30.599)
Yes. Gotcha.

Ste (35:35.518)

Adam (35:44.126)
Yeah, I like this visual language that like, if it has a little arrow on the right, it means it's opening within this window. If it has dot, dots, it means it's taking you to another place. And if it doesn't have either of those, it means it's just, you know, changing something right here on the button.

Ste (35:44.724)

Ste (35:59.335)
A toggle. Yeah. Yeah, that's really, yeah, that's really clear.

Yeah, well, this is like a good entry point to the reading journal, really easy to access. So it would definitely be apart from like clicking it from your currently reading the next like very fast way of getting here.

Adam (36:15.232)

Adam (36:33.414)
Yeah. And so that would potentially take you to this page, right? This is kind of the placeholder for your reading journal.

Ste (36:40.007)
Yes, sorry. I just dumped like, yeah, exactly. So this would be like some updates that you could be, uh, submitting as you're reading the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. So.

Some would be like this one, this would be a quote, and some would be just text as you're reading through the book. So for this, I was thinking like, what do you think like each update needs? Because my thinking would be that it would need the page number, so, or the progress. So this would be either like this or like this.


Ste (37:33.991)
this for other books and then maybe you'd have like when this was posted. I'm not sure if we should have like the avatar on each one of these maybe it can just be like up top somewhere I'm just putting it there.

Adam (37:56.37)
Yeah, having it once makes sense to me too.

Ste (38:02.003)
And for these, if you are a journalist, you could have these that would be like... Let me see... Separate places... Sorry, this is a bit of a mess, but that's just how design is at this phase.

Ste (38:30.135)
So you'd have this and maybe you'd have like an icon that...

Ste (38:43.815)
makes your settings accessible. I'm trying to anticipate like what people would want when they're on this page. So apart from the page, the actual contents, when it was posted and the replies, what else do you see as like vital to have on the update page? Let's make this a little bit more.

Adam (39:04.828)

Ste (39:12.375)
So this would be like.

Adam (39:16.45)
So yeah, maybe for v1, we could even get rid of their replies, since we probably won't have discussions for it. And then I'm thinking, whoops.

Ste (39:24.719)
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Adam (39:32.302)
I'm just going to move these down so we can get one of them fully flushed out.

Ste (39:34.907)

Adam (39:40.906)
I'm thinking for here, it's like.

What I was imagining too is something like...

Adam (39:52.734)
Um, added a note, you know, something as simple as that, where it's like, yeah, like that.

Ste (39:59.678)

Ste (40:07.607)
I did the notes two days ago.

Adam (40:12.342)
And then maybe like.

Adam (40:16.558)
Let's see, what's a good, yeah, and that way for, it always shows like the type of thing it is. It's like added a quote, added a note.

Ste (40:27.179)
Okay, gotcha. Okay, and this could be a note.

Ste (40:38.475)

Adam (40:38.622)
And what would you think about this being like down here and this being like the first thing?

Ste (40:44.215)
Oh yeah, looking good.

Adam (40:48.222)
And yeah, I like that there. Let's see, the other things we had.

on our what should you be able to do. One of them was like a controls kind of thing, like a copy to my reading list flag. So.

Ste (41:05.017)

Ste (41:10.975)
Yeah, dots. Is it dots? Nope.

Adam (41:20.178)
It is, is it vertical dots?

Ste (41:25.023)
vertical maybe. Although it's...

Adam (41:27.806)
ellipsis dash vertical.

Ste (41:32.68)
ellipsis-vertical oh but isn't this supposed to be I think I was going for horizontal but yeah that's good let's see how it looks with horizontal else it's gonna haunt me

Adam (41:50.813)
And then like a...

Adam (41:57.058)
That could include like reports.

Ste (42:05.379)
Let me get the nice drop down from somewhere. Here. Okay, everybody's hard designs.

this one.

Ste (42:23.358)
are from the lists we're making so over here there we go that's a nice looking one

Adam (42:38.306)
Wow, it is snowing out here now. Looks, can't even see two blocks away.

Ste (42:41.82)
Oh wow, again.

Ste (42:49.525)
Oh Jesus, I mean that intense.

Adam (42:52.87)
Yeah, came out of nowhere.

Ste (42:56.328)

Adam (42:58.806)
Let's see.

Ste (42:59.083)

Ste (43:03.391)
Copy to my log what just duplicated to your log.

Adam (43:07.038)
Yeah, I'm thinking like if that was, if you're looking at someone else's reading log of a book, you could like copy it to your log. So you have like a, it's kind of like, you see a quote that you like, you kind of copy it to your log and it shows up.

Ste (43:11.542)

Ste (43:19.824)
Okay, should it show the original one kind of like a repost or just like copying it?

Adam (43:25.515)
It might be.

Adam (43:29.246)
I think I'm thinking like copy, cause that way if the owner of this deletes their account or if they delete that log entry, you still, you still want it.

Ste (43:37.543)
Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Copy to.

Ste (43:51.671)
more I guess.

Ste (43:55.875)
And yeah, definitely other icons in there.

Adam (44:18.094)
Let's see what about...

Ste (44:22.743)
and light emits.

Adam (44:43.59)
flag probably.

Ste (44:47.029)
There we go.

Adam (44:48.242)
And then if this is yours, you would only see delete. If this is someone else's, you would see report and copy to your log. That's kind of what I was thinking.

Ste (44:58.007)
Okay, yeah, this is pretty good. I'll just put it here so it doesn't sit over there.

Ste (45:07.409)
This is nice.

Adam (45:10.935)

Adam (45:17.67)
Um, so let's see. For this note, I'm trying to think if there's like anything else that's like really important to show, maybe like, uh, we talked about having like, uh, mentions for like characters and, um, things like that.

Ste (45:34.743)
Oh yeah. What do you think those could look like? Should we just go for something like have their names in bold or maybe have the profile picture in there as well? So let's say this would be like a character. Let's put Jules in there. Not Lucy Gray's Jules. So something kind of like this, do you think it would be too distracting?

Adam (46:02.878)
I think that'd be cool. Like it makes it clear it's like a hardcover specific thing, not just a generic link. And I think the initial thing I'm thinking about is like, yeah, for a book, this would show the cover. For an author, this would show their avatar. For a character, it could probably show, we could probably show like two different or three different avatars, depending on that character's

Ste (46:12.767)

Ste (46:24.551)

Adam (46:33.194)
gender, like male, female, or both, or all, kind of like unknown. Kind of like, I guess we probably need four. One where we don't even know anything about the character, and one where it's one of the other three.

Ste (46:34.783)
Mmm, yeah, true.

Ste (46:46.799)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we can definitely make placeholders for all of those cases. And I'm wondering, I don't have like any other book mentioned, but yeah, this looks great.

Adam (47:06.554)

Ste (47:07.975)
Should these be...

Ste (47:13.447)
Yeah, no, they're okay. I was wondering if they should be like the different color or just like in bold. Let's see. This is a little too distracting. Actually, I think I like it better this way. Okay.

Adam (47:29.446)
Oh, yeah. I was going to say, what about what about the yellow, but then not bold?

Ste (47:41.035)
Let's see. It kind of like broke the rhythm of, well, yeah, maybe it's good it stands out. I'm not sure. Let's leave it like that and maybe we can decide when we actually code it in. Yeah.

Adam (47:46.55)

Adam (47:49.838)

Adam (47:58.112)

Ste (48:04.083)
So I was thinking maybe we could also show the number of mentions, but you're going to see them anyway, right? So yeah, maybe this is redundant.

Adam (48:13.478)
Yeah, and yeah, let's see.

Adam (48:20.434)
I'm looking at my notes to see if there's anything else. Oh yeah, one thing, I guess it's kind of less at the single level and more at the entire journal level is like something like privacy for it.

Ste (48:41.635)
Yeah. I was thinking maybe this would be like, you could access the settings for journal settings and it would just be like for this, for the journal, for this book. Would that make sense?

Adam (48:51.595)

Adam (49:05.282)

Adam (49:10.146)
That'd be cool.

Ste (49:10.795)
Or we could just... Is there anything other than privacy that we need in here, like realistically?

Adam (49:21.281)

Ste (49:23.703)
because we couldn't just.

Adam (49:26.437)
I don't think so. Maybe I'm trying to think like delete all. Like if you want to delete your entire journal for a book.

Ste (49:35.123)
Hmm, yeah, maybe we could have a button for that. I'm thinking if it's just like privacy, we could do something like this. And yeah, maybe we'll make it smaller. And this would just be a trash icon. And it would maybe have like a

Ste (49:59.489)
confirmation dialog or yeah maybe we could just like put it in journal settings.

Ste (50:11.447)
so it doesn't take up a lot of space. Yeah, we can even like dim this down and...

Adam (50:17.726)
Yeah, I think that's pretty good.

Ste (50:22.535)
this down as well.

Ste (50:37.119)
Yeah, not bad.

Adam (50:38.99)
Oh yeah, and like a little, what is it? Like a little carrot drop down at the end.

Ste (50:45.563)
Oh yeah.

Adam (50:49.641)
You'll probably get there faster.

Ste (50:50.232)
There we go.

Ste (50:55.775)
I like this. Let's make this into nice. Make this a bit way smaller.

Adam (51:07.458)
So yeah, this is already looking pretty cool.

Ste (51:12.263)
Yeah, it's not bad. What do we have in the chart that we haven't covered? Because I mean, oh, it's the quote. I wanted to see if, so let's say this is a quote. So maybe we'd add it with different background. But my question here was,

Adam (51:23.324)

Ste (51:42.468)
Actually, let me do this. And do this.

Ste (51:50.032)
happening over here.

Adam (51:52.046)
Let's see, can I put this in here?

Adam (51:57.386)
You drop a PDF in, no, you can't drop a PDF. Like can, can figma cop use a PDF? No, I'll convert it to a JPEG.

Ste (52:08.7)
I was thinking if you want to add a note and you want to tie a quote to that note, would that be...

Adam (52:16.767)

Ste (52:18.583)
I don't know where it is. It would actually have been useful to add a quote. So let's say you want to add this quote, but you also want to add this to the quote. Would we allow that? Or you'd have to add it as a separate note? Because, I mean, this relates to the quote. And let's see.

Adam (52:34.665)

Ste (52:55.845)
Okay, that actually worked.

Adam (53:04.01)

Ste (53:04.319)
Should we allow this? Like adding, formatting something as a quote. So you can insert it in the, along with the notes that is related to that.

Ste (53:26.039)
What do you think?

Adam (53:26.222)
So let's see, so we could do that. I think the tricky part is that then it becomes harder for someone to like, well, maybe not harder. Like if someone just wanted to copy the quote to their reading log, now they're copying the quote plus someone's like comment about it, which they might wanna do. Or this could be two different things. It could be like a quote and a note.

like separately but then that's kind of two different boxes

Ste (53:57.583)
Yeah. Yeah, that's why I was thinking. So if you want to like say something like this, uh, so add a quote and then like your notes on it, if it would be like two separate things. So if you'd have like this, uh, and then.

this. I'm thinking you wouldn't associate the two. So it would be like two separate things, which would be cool. But I was thinking, you know, even for the editor to do it like this court does, so it would allow you to select some texts and style it as a quote and then write some stuff of your own. And maybe I mean, I don't know if

Adam (54:27.803)

Ste (54:50.343)
would be doable maybe for a copy quote.

Ste (54:58.903)

Ste (55:03.831)
Oh, for a dude.

Adam (55:06.014)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that would be possible. Yeah. And.

Ste (55:12.155)
But would it be clear, would it make things fuzzier?

Adam (55:22.)
Yeah, I think the way that could work, I guess it comes down to how well we implement the editor for this. To make it clear, are you foreseeing it as two separate text areas, one for the quote and one for the comment on the quote? Or like...

Ste (55:44.535)
Oh no, I do it exactly like Discord does it. So you wouldn't have to pre-select if something is a quote, you just like paste it in the editor, select the text and style it as a quote. And it could potentially just be this, or if it's a quote, we could like apply different styling. So if it's just the quote, we could make it like even more. I'm just gonna remove this.

Adam (55:49.27)

Adam (56:00.589)

Ste (56:14.243)
uh we could make it even more like it could like stand out as just a quote so maybe it's this and i don't know maybe it's like a quote is not that big but

Adam (56:30.318)
realize we probably need like an edit one here too.

Ste (56:33.903)
Oh yeah, oh yeah. True. Uh, so maybe it could be like codes can something like this. I mean, not this in particular, but. And yeah.

Adam (56:45.982)
Yeah. And we probably need potentially a

like a reference for where the quotes from that could be like a character saying it, or it could be.

Ste (57:03.417)
Oh yeah.

Adam (57:05.378)
page number, but we have the page number at the bottom already.

Ste (57:08.823)
Yeah, maybe we also have the character in here somewhere and yeah So it's this one and

Ste (57:27.871)
have it here as well.

Adam (57:34.211)
And there might be like, you know, you might have a quote that's like a paragraph and it might have like a conversation between three or four people. And then you might have like four or five characters. So I'm thinking, what if like the reference is like down at the bottom or something where it's like.

Ste (57:46.464)


Ste (57:54.767)
Yeah, so if it's like, yeah, if it's two characters, it can be like this. And it can have, if it's like longer and two others, just as, you know, they would like talk in real life.

Adam (57:54.963)
It's kind of like mentioned characters. Yeah.

Ste (58:17.891)
another character from uh Cat's Nest.

Ste (58:29.463)
Oh, yeah, I think it's... was it from this? Maybe.

Ste (58:39.77)
Yeah, good point. So this would be... I did the quote. So if it's just one...

Adam (59:01.082)
Yeah, I guess you're doing that. I'm thinking of another option. Let me...

Ste (59:09.691)
Yeah, just duplicate it because yeah, I'm not happy entirely with that either.

Adam (59:10.478)
I'm going to make a copy.

Ste (59:41.099)
could be over here.

Ste (59:52.864)
Thanks for watching!

Ste (59:58.031)
sit well at all over there so maybe just under the quotes and

Ste (01:00:08.791)
We can just do this.

Ste (01:00:18.507)
Okay, it's very empty over here. So maybe we can like, stab it in line. If it has space, this is a very, very...

Ste (01:00:33.431)
short code so this could work we could just like set it to inline

Adam (01:00:45.23)
Yeah. It feels like it's gonna be rare to me that quotes are gonna be that short that there's gonna be enough space on the end of a line. Because if it's like a sentence, it's probably gonna like rap. And then the characters who are gonna show up at like, if it's like wrapped, they might show up kind of in the middle.

Ste (01:00:57.399)

Ste (01:01:11.703)
Yeah, well, if it's like more, yeah, let's, let's just like put it like underneath and leave the page where it was to balance things out. And let's say this is longer quote. So it's at least like that.

Adam (01:01:33.694)
Yeah, that's closer to what I was in the middle of trying. Ha.

Ste (01:01:38.49)
Here we go.

Adam (01:01:40.4)

And yeah, that, I feel like there's probably not going to be cases where there's going to be too many, like too many mentions, like a quote that mentions like 10 characters or something like that.

Ste (01:01:59.343)
Yeah, let's put, I mean, it can take at least.

four, five potentially. So yeah, I wouldn't be worried. I mean, that's an edge case and more than five, we can like do this and show it in an overlay. So I think that would be good. And it can be the same overlay that we use for like selecting characters when you type.

Adam (01:02:18.439)

Adam (01:02:25.802)
Or another way we could do it is like, when you click two others, it just kind of replaces it with like, just overlays these on top of it and gets rid of two others, kind of like expand text.

Ste (01:02:33.755)
Oh yeah, just, yeah.

Ste (01:02:38.58)

Yeah, or just like pushes it down.

Adam (01:02:45.306)
Exactly. Yeah. It'll just wrap to the second line and it'll just keep showing them. Yeah.

Ste (01:02:48.627)
Yeah, I can do this in Figma. So let's wrap this stuff. So I can actually do this.

So, that's like, oh, yeah, I haven't... What have I done? Right.

Ste (01:03:09.179)
I actually wanted to do this, so yeah.

Ste (01:03:19.059)
Yeah, this is looking great. I mean, I don't know. I think we could leave it at that and let it settle. And I think it's in a good point for us to start iterating.

Adam (01:03:32.306)
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think this is a, this is a good step. It's kind of, it feels so familiar after everything we've already done with the discussions, it feels like, it feels like we kind of, uh, started solving these problems now we're, we're finishing solving them.

Ste (01:03:50.499)
Yeah, I think it's easier because we kind of did the more complex version of that already. So I think the next step here would be to figure out the editor for this, which would be like a simplified version of what we already made. And yeah, I think this is, I mean, I can see like what else to add in here.

maybe just like optimize what we're not seeing now. But yeah, this is good progress, yeah.

Adam (01:04:20.994)
and probably some indicator of which book this is for, like whether that's using the book header or it's using like the cover or like the mini header instead of the full size header.

Ste (01:04:26.727)
Oh yeah.

Ste (01:04:31.907)

Yeah, it could be the mini header. Yeah, it could be this.

Adam (01:04:38.602)
I really liked the mini header. Like I want to, I want to get the mini header in on all pages that are not the main book page.

Ste (01:04:47.235)
Yeah, that'd be great. We can even do some animations for that when you scroll. And should we get the tabs in as well?

Adam (01:04:52.234)

Adam (01:04:59.022)
I think we could and then we'd probably need some kind of, yeah, like the back to all, well, maybe you don't even need back to all journals.

Ste (01:05:02.679)

Ste (01:05:06.487)
This is our library, not this. Yeah, it could. So, yeah, it would just be inactive. Hmm.

Adam (01:05:21.246)
Yeah, I think it's a good, yeah, I think I like the, that, well, I think I like them.

Ste (01:05:22.03)
or with pictures.

Ste (01:05:25.951)
just the tabs.

Ste (01:05:32.711)
Yeah, basically when you see all journals in here, if you tap on yours, it just like takes you here. And then you can tap journals again and you can see all of them.

Adam (01:05:43.69)
It's kind of like what happens when you go to a single review.

Ste (01:05:47.559)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And maybe we should decide, I mean, this is a question for next time. Over here, this is like the latest update that you've posted, but let's see if it would make sense to show anything else.

Adam (01:06:06.849)
Maybe the most liked update.

Ste (01:06:09.379)
Oh yeah, or the most liked update. Yeah, that's true.

Adam (01:06:14.046)
Yeah. Cool. Well.

Ste (01:06:15.911)
And if you go there, you'd see this. Nice. Okay. Yeah. This is in a good spot.

Adam (01:06:19.797)
Yeah, I think that's good progress for one day.

Ste (01:06:25.187)
Yeah, definitely. Nice. Well, this was a good session. Thanks, everybody. And see you next week, right?

Adam (01:06:35.462)
Yep. See you next week or actually next week is going to be Valentine's day. Do we want to, do we want to skip next week?

Ste (01:06:37.503)
Have a good one. Oh crap, yeah, that's true. Yeah, let's keep next week and everybody get ready for Valentine's Day. Go with your loved one and celebrate and yeah, we'll see you all in two weeks. Perfect. Have a good one. Bye.

Adam (01:06:53.314)
Sounds good. Well, bye. Talk to you later.