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We are Alyssa and Bri, two sisters who believe God wants more for women than we've been taught. Join us as we dive into the intersection of faith and feminism, learning together as we go.
To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my
Speaker 2:name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe
Speaker 1:that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach
Speaker 2:his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
Speaker 1:Hello. Hello. Have you had a scoodly doodly day? We had a weird adventure today.
Speaker 2:What day do we not?
Speaker 1:We are defined in life by our weird adventures.
Speaker 2:I think my entire life is just chaos. And that's what happened today. And if you've never had Scooter's coffee,
Speaker 1:wow. It was an adventure.
Speaker 2:Have a scootily doodly day is what I was told. And I thought to myself, am I into sitcom?
Speaker 1:Think she also said have a scooterific day as we were leaving.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I need to know. I need you all to come on to our social medias and tell me if you've been to a Scooter's Coffee, did they say that to you too? Or was it just this one girl who was just like really excited about life?
Speaker 2:This one unique situation where I literally felt like I was in The Suite Life of Zach and Cody. She was like, go ahead and scoot on up to the the first window. Like, what is happening? But now that word is stuck in my head.
Speaker 1:Now that will forever be part
Speaker 2:of our repertoire. Scootaly doodly.
Speaker 1:So today, guys, I have a, like, prepped story to tell you to lead into our actual topic. Are you proud of the amount of preparation?
Speaker 2:Is it to lead into our story? I just thought it was, hey, here's an experience we've had.
Speaker 1:I mean, it is that. But I do feel like it I'll get there. I'll get us there. Don't worry.
Speaker 2:All right. I've got this. I kind of like have you ever seen the TikToks where they're making fun of pastors? And they're like, here's this completely off the wall story. Completely off the wall.
Speaker 2:And I'm gonna lead it back into, and that's how Jesus was. He would give you the last fry off his plate.
Speaker 1:I mean, probably not. Fries are
Speaker 2:great. Jesus. He's like the extra fry at the bottom of the bag. Oh, dear.
Speaker 1:A bonus. Great. That sounds good. Anyway, so, Brie and I were talking about the episode that we are gonna do today, which I will lead into. Alright.
Speaker 1:I'm And pumped we were talking about, like, our past experiences in churches, which, you know, you've been along the ride for. You know.
Speaker 2:We've gone to many a church.
Speaker 1:Many a church. But we went to this one when we were younger. It was, like, probably the smallest church that we ever went to.
Speaker 2:Not me. I've gone to smaller.
Speaker 1:Okay. It was the smallest church that I think I've ever been to.
Speaker 2:It was, like, fifty, sixty people, I would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah. With, like, one service. Think like, the pastor's been there for forty five years.
Speaker 2:And the general age of people is reflected by the pastor's age. Yeah. So everybody is, like,
Speaker 1:retired. At least, like, well into their seventies. I remember one guy getting up and arguing that we shouldn't have anything other than the piano playing for music because a certain decibel level means that you can't experience the actual words of the music. And he's like trying I don't know. It was a wild time.
Speaker 2:Makes totally sense. Jesus wouldn't want you to praise him with anything other than a piano.
Speaker 1:No. In fact, he said be quiet when you praise me, I think. Mhmm. That's the verse.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He said the quieter you are. The better. The better it is. Closer to God.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Anyway.
Speaker 1:So we were some of this was when we were younger. We were, like, preteen, early teen. Middle school.
Speaker 2:High school era. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there were very few kids. Which is reflective of the general population of that Tops 10. Yeah. They tried real hard to have a youth group. It didn't go great.
Speaker 1:But there were three other girls there that were, like, similar to our age. Yeah?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And one guy that they had asked these girls to do, like, special music. If you guys have ever been to a little tiny Baptist church, you know what I mean by special music.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Someone gets up there and awkwardly sings off tune and then goes and sits down. Everybody politely claps. Politely claps.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But they decided to sing I
Speaker 1:and I just thoroughly questioned their parents' life choices because they had to have known this wasn't gonna go well, right? These girls got up there and sang the black eyed peas. Which one? Remind me the name of
Speaker 2:I think it's called Where's the Love?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Where's the Love? Which honestly, the song, not out of context in church.
Speaker 2:And also, like, lots of churches do that. Especially, I think now it's kinda trendy to okay. We're gonna rework Hot To Go. Into a Christian format. Or just sing like regular pop songs with, you know, a Christian undertone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think Pink Pony Club would be great for that.
Speaker 2:What? A 100%.
Speaker 1:I think we should that should be our project for next week.
Speaker 2:Honestly, anything chapel roam. That makes sense. The church loves it.
Speaker 1:They love it. But anyways, so these three girls got up and they sang the Black Eyed Peas. And I really don't remember the actual performance. Like, they could have been good. Could have been terrible.
Speaker 2:I don't remember. And also, was a time in our lives where we weren't allowed to really listen to that stuff.
Speaker 1:Not at all.
Speaker 2:So I didn't get the reference.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I was like, these three girls that look like me are up here rapping. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Alright. Let's get it. And the reception from the church was bad. Oh my People were mad.
Speaker 2:There was no clapping afterwards.
Speaker 1:No clapping.
Speaker 2:There was rage in many an eye.
Speaker 1:But here's okay. We're I'm gonna lead in. Are you ready? Alright. Alright.
Speaker 1:So we're talking today about how Protestants kind of take certain rules that we believe that we have and use them as excuses not to do what Jesus really wanted us to do, to live the lives Jesus really wanted us to live.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I think in this context, this little church had taken this rule of we need to be set apart
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:From society. And we've talked about that phrase before, but that's something you hear all the time in Christianity. We need to be set apart from society. And so they took that. And instead of having it be within context of, okay, society isn't very loving, so we're gonna be very loving, which really is what it means.
Speaker 1:Society isn't very much pointing back to god, and that's what we're supposed to be. Instead of that, they took this situation and they said, we're supposed to be set apart. So you can't sing rap. You can't get up on that stage and do that. And they made these girls feel so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And I've gotta think now I these are not people that I still have any connections with or anything, but I've gotta think that that impacted their faith. That that impacted their relationship with the church.
Speaker 2:Well, takes so much guts
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:To be able to get up in front of a group of people and try to worship God Mhmm. Or try to say a speech or anything. Think about how uncomfortable that is for so many people. Especially a teenage girl. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And you're trying your best. Mhmm. You're trying your best. And the response was just not there. There was no encouragement.
Speaker 2:There was no, hey, thank you for doing this when nobody else would. Hey, thank you for doing this. Would affect my faith. Mhmm. 100%.
Speaker 2:And even
Speaker 1:if you did think and I don't think there's anything wrong with them getting up and singing that song. But, like, let's say even if you did really believe that this shouldn't be in church. To even go up to them and say, you did such a great job. Maybe next time we don't sing this song. You know?
Speaker 1:But still some level of encouragement, which, again, I don't think is entirely appropriate. But at least that would be something.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Whereas this was a 100% negative.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And in a space where there were so few young people, like the church was dying off. I just feel like that was a really interesting move Mhmm. On the church's side. Don't you wanna build up these young people so that when they get older, and should they choose to have children, they also wanna raise them in the church?
Speaker 2:Like, you want you wanna share your faith.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. You wanna be that encouraging presence. Or you should. And clearly, that's not what was happening there. There were closing ranks.
Speaker 1:Right. Oh, yeah. For sure. Did I lead us in?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Good job.
Speaker 1:See? See? This wasn't a Jesus is a french fry situation.
Speaker 2:But
Speaker 1:we also wanted to kind of compare to and I think we talked about this at the end of the episode last week. But we wanted to kind of compare to a couple of other faiths, not necessarily completely different religions.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So I was having a conversation with a friend the other day who is Catholic. So different from me. And obviously, Catholic people believe different things about afterlife and heaven, hell, how you get to heaven, how you get to hell. And she is one of the most giving people that I know.
Speaker 2:She is, she literally will give you the shirt off her back if you needed it. And maybe it's because her faith is works based. Mhmm. So they think you have to be a good enough person to kinda like earn your way into heaven or the in between y.
Speaker 1:We know a lot about Catholicism.
Speaker 2:And I was just thinking about the juxtaposition of my faith. Not just like the way I grew up, but just our entire faith in general Mhmm. Is not as giving as that. Because we don't believe that we can earn our way into heaven other than through Jesus. Right.
Speaker 2:Because Jesus started on the cross. And I do agree with that. However, while we're here on this earth, we're supposed to be the hands and feet and nose and toes of Jesus. And how, and we've said this before on the podcast, but how can I be Jesus? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:How can I be Jesus on this earth? It means I have to be more kind. I have to be more generous. I have to be more loving.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And that is not what the church is showing today whatsoever. Like, our experience growing up, the church kind of closes ranks. And we say, no, you shouldn't associate with those people. You shouldn't go see that movie. You shouldn't listen to that music because we're supposed to be set apart.
Speaker 2:Right. But what should set us apart is our outrageous, unconditional love and generosity. Mhmm. Not how judgy we are. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think we use we use Jesus as an excuse in so many different ways. But in this particular context, okay. Yeah. Like, Jesus saved me.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And I, you're right. Like, I believe that. I I don't believe in a works based faith. I believe that Jesus came into my heart and I can't do anything that's going to take me away from him or make me holy.
Speaker 1:I can't I can't take myself to heaven. I know that. I accept that. But I shouldn't be using that as an excuse to turn around and say, I'm already going to heaven. So I I guess I can't do anything else.
Speaker 1:See you.
Speaker 2:Bye. It's kind of like the excuse that people will be like, I'm gonna sin, but I'm a I'm a pray about it after.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because God has forgiven me. So I can it's an excuse to go out and do whatever I please and pray at the end of the day and be like, just kidding, Jesus. Forgive me. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I think too and we're gonna talk about a couple of different religions today. But I think we like to live in this, like, little secluded bubble of Christianity. Mhmm. We don't like to look at anybody else. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We've talked before about how we don't like to look at the roots of Protestantism as being Catholicism, even though they are. Like, one comes from the other. Mhmm. We don't like to look at that. We like to, like, pretend it didn't exist.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And because we exist in this bubble, we do lose some really important things
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Coming from other faiths. Like, I don't believe in a works based faith. And yet we look at the Catholic faith. And because their faith is more works based, yeah, they they have to live a different lifestyle. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Now do I think you should have to live that lifestyle with the threat of going to hell over
Speaker 2:your head?
Speaker 1:No. But it could say something to us. It could say, here's a way to live that's more Christ like.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Even though you don't technically have to do it, go to heaven, if you truly love Jesus, if you truly want to exemplify him to the world, maybe this is more the lifestyle you live than the one that the Protestants are showing. Yeah. Which I realize is like a little uncomfy.
Speaker 2:Like that I don't know.
Speaker 1:It like ruffles feathers a little bit.
Speaker 2:Alyssa and I were talking about this earlier. We think our life's mission is to disrupt. Cause discomfort. Yes. And I think we've really been successful.
Speaker 1:So I think we're very successful. I think that really should be all of our goals.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It sounds there's a bumper sticker. I I mean, it's a quote all over the places, but I remember seeing it all the time growing up as a bumper sticker. And it says, well behaved women rarely make history. Herstory. Herstory.
Speaker 1:And I remember our mom constantly being like, I hate that. I hate that. I hate that. Sorry, mom. Sorry, mom.
Speaker 1:Because she wanted to say, essentially, like, well, you should be able to behave well. And I'm air quoting and you can't see it. But
Speaker 2:because this is a podcast.
Speaker 1:But she was essentially wanting to say, like, you can behave well and still affect change. And I understand what she's saying to some degree. That being said, my goal in life is to behave very poorly
Speaker 2:and affect change. You think it's it's not poorly. It's just different than what we've been told has been okay Yeah. My entire
Speaker 1:But I think that's what I'm saying is like, if you take the rules that we were given, the list of whatever, from churches, from podcasts, from the I don't know, televangelists.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes. Benny Hinn. From all of those people.
Speaker 1:We're doing things poorly.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We are poorly behaved women. Like
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's that's just the reality.
Speaker 2:And history does repeat itself, you look back in the Bible, and the people who thought they were the best. Mhmm. The people who were thought they were following all the rules. Right? The Pharisees.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Correct? Yep. I get those confused with the Sadducees. Similar.
Speaker 2:Anyways, they thought they were the holiest because they're following all the rules. Mhmm. And Jesus came and said, sister. That's not how I want you to behave. Right.
Speaker 2:But now, their Christian people are kind of slipping back into that. Mhmm. Where it's like, oh, if you follow all these rules, you're so, so holy. When I think Jesus is trying to communicate with us and say, this is not how I want you to be. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So maybe we could rephrase that phrase and say, behaved Christians rarely affect history, rarely impact change.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Following the rules doesn't make you a better Christian. Mhmm. I'm I'm always and I don't know if I say this out loud. You can tell me. I'm consistently thinking in my head, I never wanna be the person I was expected to be.
Speaker 1:Because I think I was and you two, like, as little protestant
Speaker 2:As little prostitutes. Cut that. I'm gonna leave her that in.
Speaker 1:As little protestant children. There was a specific way we were supposed to grow up and be.
Speaker 2:Well, I think all little Christian children Yes. Across the board there's an expectation.
Speaker 1:Yep. And I find that incredibly boring.
Speaker 2:There's such an emphasis on your nuclear family, if And that's the correct how can I bring my little family to Christ? Right. And make sure my little family is going to heaven. Mhmm. And there's not as much emphasis on how do I look out, get outside of my house Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And make sure that my neighbors are okay and make sure that my neighbors' neighbors are okay and that they're also going to heaven. And if
Speaker 1:we had grown up that way and been the people that we were expected to be I mean, in my mind, it's like a fifties housewife kind of vibe. That's what we were supposed to be according to all those rules.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If you follow all those rules, that's that's the expectation of us as Christian women. And I want to be so far away from that in one, just the way that I dress and behave and look.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say you look insane.
Speaker 1:Thank you. With current hair going on, it's a little wild. Look at me. I have
Speaker 2:a claw clip directly on the top of my head right now.
Speaker 1:But also in a way that I am as a person. Because, yeah, like, otherwise, we're just we were expected to live in our bubble. In the bubble of our nuclear family, in the bubble of our church, and really never look beyond it. Mhmm. And what are what change are you affecting Mhmm.
Speaker 1:In that? Like, okay. Maybe your kids will grow up in church. But frankly, based on statistics, maybe they won't. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because a huge wave of millennials and gen z's have left the church because they grew up in that bubble.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think, like we talked to, if you listen to Heather Fraser's interview, our last podcast. People are leaving the church, but that doesn't always mean that they're leaving the faith.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:It means they're trying to seek out Jesus in the way that and we're encouraging people to read the Bible. Mhmm. And now they're reading the Bible and saying, the way that the church is behaving is not reflecting the lifestyles and teachings of Jesus. Right. So I'm gonna seek that elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And whether that is in church or whether it's not. Mhmm. And I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:I don't just think that's okay. I think it's, for many people, the only way to maintain faith.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:At this stage of my life, if you were to say to me, in order to have faith, you absolutely must be in church. And I've heard that said to other people.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But I don't think I would have faith anymore because I in I can't tell you the last time that I went to a church and felt that it was reflective of Jesus. I honestly I sincerely am trying to think back. I can think of one church service
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:In a church that wasn't reflecting Jesus. But it was like a guest speaker.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I can think of moments
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That have reflected Jesus. Mhmm. But consistently within the four walls of a church?
Speaker 1:No. Right. We posted a quote to our Instagram and TikTok earlier this week, and it was from Heather's interview last week. And she said, is your faith contained to four walls? And I just think that's so impactful because my faith is not about the four walls of the church.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. It has nothing to do with the four walls of the church. And if it has nothing to do with the four walls of the church, then I certainly can walk away from church and say, right now this is not a helpful space for me. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:This is
Speaker 1:not a healthy space for
Speaker 2:me. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I can still have faith. I can still be someone of faith. I can still have a great relationship with God.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I remember, like, the service that made me wanna walk away from not church altogether, but this specific church that
Speaker 1:we were at. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I sat there and I was like typing this angry letter on my phone and Alyssa looked over at me. I think I added several things.
Speaker 1:I like wrote little notes to add. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think honestly in that situation, had I chose to stay in that church, my faith would have been in danger. Because if that is the reflection of God, I don't wanna be part of it. I don't want that in my life. And if I think that's all that my religion has to offer, forget that. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I saw a meme? No. GIF? I don't understand technology. It was a picture the other day that had a fish in a fishbowl and it said religion underneath it.
Speaker 2:And then a fish in the ocean and it said spirituality. Okay. And I really liked that analogy of like, there's so many rules that come with your religion. Yeah. And some of them make sense.
Speaker 2:Like, hey, don't murder.
Speaker 1:Hey, just generally.
Speaker 2:Hey, generally don't murder. The bowl cut thing, I
Speaker 1:think is also probably pretty fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah. True. No bowl cuts. So true. And I you know what?
Speaker 2:There's one person I can think of that pulls it off. And it's that one comedian. Oh. She has her special.
Speaker 1:I don't know if she's pulling it off. Think it's her But
Speaker 2:look around you at the world that God created. There is so much more Mhmm. Than we can comprehend. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I think when we allow our faith to be a little bit more fluid instead of having these really pointed rules, not even not I'm not talking about, like, don't murder. But you must go to church every Sunday. You must go to Wednesday night church or you're not as holy. You must teach small group. You must give 10%.
Speaker 1:You must you know, like, all of those those rules that keep you in the church space. If we could be a little bit more fluid with those and say, I'm gonna follow where Jesus leads. I'm gonna follow where my faith feel that feels that it needs. Because like you said, like, that church would have harmed your faith.
Speaker 2:Staying there
Speaker 1:would have harmed your faith. Why can't we look at church in that context and say, I will be here for as long as I grow here. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That doesn't mean that you're confined to the same place your entire life. Are you still growing there?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because that's what's important. As long as you live, you should be learning and growing. Mhmm. You shouldn't be stagnant like a little old pond.
Speaker 1:If your church isn't providing you a safe space to grow and I'm not saying every week, like, expect your pastor to give the best message that anyone's ever given. But I expected. But if it's not providing a safe space for you to grow, what are you getting out of it? Mhmm. I guess is my main question.
Speaker 1:Because I spent a lot of time at a church where I did all the right things. And you I've probably talked about this before, but I did all the right things. I was there every single Sunday. Plus also, I was teaching kids church. Plus also, I was in a small group and eventually teaching a small group.
Speaker 1:And I worked on staff there, and I did all the things. And yet I look back and I had no growth in my faith. Mhmm. None at all. So what was I doing there?
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you because I've done some digging in my life since then.
Speaker 2:You were checking boxes.
Speaker 1:I was checking boxes, and I liked that I had an important place in this space.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. You're making it about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. People looked up to me. Mhmm. So if your church isn't allowing you to grow, step back and ask yourself, what am I doing here? What am I getting out of it?
Speaker 1:And it might be the same thing that I was getting out of
Speaker 2:it. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Or it might be a social circle or it might be blah blah blah. And that doesn't I don't wanna demonize some of those things. Like, it is important to have a social circle. And if your church is that, that's okay.
Speaker 2:And I think there is a lot of judgment around what they call church hopping. Mhmm. Because I think a lot of people think that you should find one church and that is where your roots should be. And you should stay there
Speaker 1:forever. And
Speaker 2:for some people, they've really found their people. Mhmm. And once you find your people, you don't wanna leave them. Okay. But that's not true for everyone.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And like you said, if it's not feeding into your soul, what is it doing for you? Where else can you seek God? Mhmm. What else is there to learn?
Speaker 2:And who else is there to meet? It's okay to try something different. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Well, goal of church should be spiritual growth. Right? Like, I'm
Speaker 2:I'm not insane? No. It should be those little crackers and a little of juice.
Speaker 1:They're not even crackers anymore. They're Styrofoam. Yeah. They're bad. But if if the goal of church is spiritual growth, I don't understand how we are so content to say, well, this is this is where I hang out with my friends.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. This is where I sing once a week because I like to sing sometimes. Like Mhmm. I like where I get to be better coffee. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or whatever. If I mean, that's what it should boil down to. Right?
Speaker 2:In life, I really like the saying get comfortable being uncomfortable. Mhmm. Because the second that you're comfortable, you're done.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. You're not growing.
Speaker 2:You're not growing. You're You're dying. But I really like that saying, like, it's okay to be uncomfortable. Mhmm. And look around and say like, oh, there's other people that are uncomfortable too.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And maybe that's a way I can connect with that person through our discomfort.
Speaker 1:Well, should be there should be some level of challenge Mhmm. I think. If your faith isn't being challenged and I'm not saying I don't like that whole concept of like, you're constantly going through a trial. That's a really Baptist thing. Like, you're either going through a spiritual trial or you're just coming out of one or you're starting a new one.
Speaker 1:Like, it's Yeah. It's like a massive It's
Speaker 2:like a wave.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't like that. But challenging is different. Like, I'm not talking about massive spiritual trials. I'm talking about just just something that makes you feel a little Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because there's something that you need to grow in.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And how are you training yourself and preparing yourself to go through those trials? I think that's the biggest thing. Mhmm. And a lot of people will tell you, you know, going to church every Sunday and doing your devotions.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe it is going to different churches. Maybe it is talking to new people. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Maybe it is deconstructing your faith and figuring out why you believe what you believe. Or is it just something that's been passed down from generation to generation that's not true? Yeah. That is how you prepare yourself.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Maybe make a friend with someone that's not of the same faith as you. I know. Yes. I remember going to VBS and them saying, okay, we need we want you to bring a non Christian friend to VBS.
Speaker 1:And then you'd get, like, a little ribbon or whatever if you did that, which is Judgey. Yeah. A little judgey and not great. But that was the thing. And I was I remember sitting there and thinking, I don't know anyone that's not a Christian.
Speaker 1:Now, I was a child. And at that point, was in a Christian school. I was at church. Like, and that was my entire social circle. But if you're an adult and your entire social circle is just people that believe the exact same thing as you, you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm sorry, but you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2:This may be a little bit off topic, but I remember growing up in the church that we went to when I Was born. When you grew up. Was like Baptist. Super Baptist. It's like Baptist.
Speaker 2:Like, you had to
Speaker 1:wear a dress to church. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Pants horse in. And I remember going to, like, Sparkies.
Speaker 1:Oh, Sparkies.
Speaker 2:It's like youth group, whatever. And they would bust these kids in
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:From who knows where. I don't know. But kids whose families weren't bringing them, they would bust in. Mhmm. And there was so much judgment Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:For the bus kids. Which looking back and I participated in it too. I'm like, bleh, you're a bus kid.
Speaker 1:Because it's the culture that they've created.
Speaker 2:Those kids need to be in there more than I did. Right. And there should have been so much love and so much generosity geared towards those kids. We should be celebrating every time the bus pulled up. Hallelujah that these kids are here.
Speaker 2:And maybe they don't come from the same background. And maybe they don't look the same as us. But there is so much joy that they're there.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. That they've chosen to be there. That they've
Speaker 2:chosen to be there. That they had the opportunity Mhmm. To learn about Jesus. How happy we are that you're there. Right.
Speaker 2:And it that was not the case. Well, I think
Speaker 1:you see that in plenty of conservative Christian churches today with adults where you've got the people that show up in proper clothes and in you know, with their hair done just so and their nails done and whatever. Get your nails done. Let them blow dry. Yeah. And then you see someone walk in in jeans and a t shirt.
Speaker 1:And this isn't I think this has become less widespread over time because I've seen churches get more casual. But there are definitely still spaces where that's the case. Somebody walks in in jeans and a t shirt and everybody looks at them weird. Mhmm. And people don't talk to them.
Speaker 1:And, like, they're made to feel uncomfortable. Mhmm. And I can think of references of this in my own life Mhmm. Where I have heard people, whether in my family, whether in my friend's circle, saying things about other people's clothes
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:When they walk into church as though they don't deserve to be there. Mhmm. I also wanted to talk today about again, we're talking about a couple of different faiths. And I was thinking about the Mormon faith. Hello.
Speaker 1:Now, I watch a surprising amount of Mormon content on YouTube.
Speaker 2:I've seen the Book of Mormon.
Speaker 1:We did see that.
Speaker 2:That That was a mistake. I cannot recommend it. Shouldn't admit to it.
Speaker 1:As a rule. Sorry. But part of their faith is going out and, like, going door to door. I'm sure most of us have had Mormon missionaries show up at our door.
Speaker 2:They are supposed to be on mission. Right. So for two years after they, I think, graduate high school or something
Speaker 1:It's around 18. Yeah. They go on their Mormon mission. Mhmm. And so you might see, like, two by two Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You know, people coming through your neighborhood, going up to the doors and wanting to talk to you about they'll say, like, you know, have you heard about Jesus kind of vibe.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And part of why they do that is because they believe that that is part of how they they do better in heaven. Like, you know, the more rewards you reap in heaven. And that has, to some degree, filtered into Protestantism.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Which I think is just generally kind of a wild concept of, like, I'm gonna do this so that I get more rubies in my crown in
Speaker 2:heaven. Was just gonna say that I was like, I want all of the jewels in my crown, which was part of Sparky's. Oh, it was part
Speaker 1:of oh, they had Yeah. A
Speaker 2:You got like a a crown pin that you would fill with little jewels Yeah. As you, like, learned different verses
Speaker 1:and stuff.
Speaker 2:But yeah.
Speaker 1:But that is the idea of, like, I'm going to get more rewards in heaven if I whatever. And I think that's to some degree fallen out of favor in Protestantism. But for Mormons, that's still a huge part of their faith
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Is how many people can I get baptized into the church? Now as Protestants, I don't think we necessarily think of that as part of how we get to heaven or part of how we create a personal relationship with Jesus. It like, we're not stacking up bricks of gold or anything. But how does that give us an excuse? Because I was thinking about tracks.
Speaker 1:Do you guys remember tracks?
Speaker 2:I remember the board at one of the churches that we went to
Speaker 1:that was just full, fold? Fold. It was full of them. It was
Speaker 2:filled with, like, 50 different types of tracks. Yeah. And I would go and I would collect them. Me too. Because I thought they were cool.
Speaker 2:And they were free.
Speaker 1:But that was the idea was like, here, grab all these tracks. And then when you're at a restaurant, instead of a tip, you can leave this one that looks like a dollar bill or a $20 bill. And and instead of a $20 bill, it's actually a track.
Speaker 2:I mean, hopefully,
Speaker 1:it's in addition. Don't think so. I think a lot of times it was instead of. That's horrible. Or, hey, I'm out taking a walk, and so I'm just gonna hand tracks to people as I go along.
Speaker 1:Or in any interaction that I have ever. Or I'm gonna put them in my Halloween candy with for kids. Like, any interaction that you have, hand someone a tract. And that was held up when I was a kid as the gold standard of evangelism or of discipleship. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:When God said, go out into the world and make disciples of all nations. What he meant was take this tiny little two fold piece of paper and hand it to people and then run away.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Don't bother to get to know their name. Nope.
Speaker 1:You don't wanna actually interact.
Speaker 2:Fold it into a paper airplane, throw it at them, and run-in the other direction.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's what he was saying.
Speaker 2:Think it's a great way to get people to Christ if you are a an extreme introvert. I don't think so. Don't wanna talk
Speaker 1:to them. If you are an extreme introvert and you don't wanna talk
Speaker 2:to anybody, start a podcast. Yeah. You don't have to talk
Speaker 1:to anybody face to face. It's a great way.
Speaker 2:That's not true.
Speaker 1:Well, we have or had to talk to a few people. Not that many. Mostly, it's just you to me and me to you and both of us together.
Speaker 2:Me and you. You and me. Both of us together.
Speaker 1:Just it's such a weird idea because
Speaker 2:so again, I watch a lot
Speaker 1:of Mormon content. And I watched a girl talk about her experience being a Mormon missionary. Mhmm. And essentially what would happen is, like, let's say that instead of telling the Mormon missionaries, like, no thank you and closing the door in their faces, you say, yes, I do wanna talk to you. Their goal is to create a relationship with you.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You get their phone number. You chat back and forth. You become ideally friends with this person. You create a relationship with this person.
Speaker 2:So this is an interesting story. One of the girls that I work with was saying, I don't know. I think it's her friend. Mhmm. A Mormon person came to her door and knock, knock, knock.
Speaker 2:Have you heard about Jesus? And she invited them in for, like, coffee or something. And she's of a different faith. And she was they just, like, talk back and forth about their faith. This person, like, ten years later, still comes every week and they have coffee together.
Speaker 2:Aw. That's really sweet. Yeah. They'll be
Speaker 1:a friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They don't share the same religion. Mhmm. But they just meet up every week and have coffee. And I think
Speaker 1:now I there's I'm not saying that this is like the ideal thing. You can call this love bombing. You get there's like, certainly some situations where this can be manipulative and not great.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But what God called us to was not throwing tracts in people's faces. What he called us to was creating deep relationships with people to show his love. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And deep relationships doesn't mean, like, the first two minutes of you meeting someone, I want to know all of your dirt and all of your trauma. Yes. And and I'm gonna use that to manipulate you a little bit. And then maybe a year later, I'm gonna drop you like hot potato. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which has been my experience. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or even I remember in VBS and, like, as we were, you know, being kind of trained for this as children
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:They'd be like, alright. Well, you need to know your testimony. You need to know your testimony. And you need to know the five verses that you need to jump back and forth to when somebody asks you to tell them about your faith because you need to lead them through this whatever.
Speaker 2:Which I remember being so terrified of because my testimony is, hey, when I was four or five years old, I asked Jesus into my heart when I was in the back of a minivan. That's it. It's not thrilling. I've been a Christian my whole life. But that is scary because you feel like you should have a better story.
Speaker 2:A dramatic story. That is gonna what that's what's gonna draw people in, is a dramatic story. Right. Than actually just loving them. At five years old,
Speaker 1:I was on drugs.
Speaker 2:I was on those drugs again. Man.
Speaker 1:Those pixie sticks did me dirty. Yeah. I think we need to we just we use it as an excuse. I don't actually need to create a relationship because in a in another way, we have this idea that, like, I can't change you. Right?
Speaker 1:Like, as a Christian, I really can't force you to believe in Jesus. Now is that wrong at its base? No. It's not wrong. I really can't change you to force you into faith.
Speaker 1:But we kind of use this as like, well, only God can affect your heart. Therefore, I'm not gonna try that hard. I just have to plant a seed. And as long as I plant that seed in your heart, which can be handing you this tract that I've had in my wallet for forty five years, that's all I have to do. And then hands off, I've done the
Speaker 2:thing. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But that's not it. I think there's some validity. You don't have to follow someone through their entire faith journey. Like, I'm not saying that you have to create this relationship and be best friends till you die. And
Speaker 2:people come in and out of your life for different reasons in different seasons. You know what I'm saying? But your goal should never be to ghost somewhat And
Speaker 1:you can pick up little pearls
Speaker 2:of wisdom in different places that you go, and you can collect them in your little pocket. So one of the pearls of wisdom that I got from one of the churches that we went to, not gonna say it's a great church, but one of the pearls of wisdom was to bless someone. Mhmm. If you're going to try to and I think I've said this before on the podcast. But if you're trying to bring someone to God, you should like, it was an acronym.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And I forget what it was. One of
Speaker 1:them was share a meal.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was like, spend time with them and share a meal and Listen to their story. Listen, like, all of these And then the very last thing that you do is share your faith with them. But that is after all of this other stuff.
Speaker 1:And we're not talking like bullet point check off all of these boxes and then like to rush to try and get to sharing your faith. This could take Years. Months, years, whatever, to get to that point where both you and they feel comfortable with even having a conversation
Speaker 2:Because about it shouldn't be like, oh, I think I'm better than you. Mhmm. Therefore, I'm gonna say, you look like you need Jesus. And that's my main goal Right. For talking to you.
Speaker 2:I don't care anything else about you. I just want to collect your soul. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like Pokemon Go.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The main goal should be to love and care for that person. And through that love and care does come Jesus. Right. But you have to earn that trust first.
Speaker 1:When I was in creative writing classes in college, I remember my professor at Professor Beach, who we had on several weeks ago, she said, you never wanna start writing a story with the goal of I want this big message to come out of it. Mhmm. Like, you start writing a book with this message behind I want this big faith message behind it or whatever, like this big purpose to come out of it. Your story is always gonna seem fake. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Your story is always gonna seem like forcing something down people's throats. What you do instead is write a story. And if a big message comes out of it, then great. Mhmm. And if it doesn't, then that's also okay.
Speaker 1:You still told this story. You still got something out into the world.
Speaker 2:We actually said the same thing in my art classes, specifically in my painting class. But, like, not trying to come up with a piece of art with a message.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:If the message comes out
Speaker 1:of the art, that's awesome. But your goal is to create art. Right. And so in this context, your goal should be to create a relationship.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's it. Your goal is to create a relationship. And God will work through that however he sees fit. Your goal is not to convert someone.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. If your goal is to convert someone, that relationship will always be fake. Mhmm. That relationship will always be surface level, and it will never reflect Christ.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It just won't. Like, you have started off what's the story about building your house upon the rock versus building your house upon the sand?
Speaker 2:The wise man built his house upon a rock.
Speaker 1:That's a song.
Speaker 2:And all of my family members out there, that's right. I know another religious song. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:A really old one from junior church. But if you start that relationship essentially on on sand, you're never gonna be able to build something real. Like
Speaker 2:you Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Or lasting. Right. And so then that person is gonna walk away with stories like Brie and I have, where we've been dropped like hot potatoes the moment that someone doesn't feel like they can alter our faith or grow our faith or whatever.
Speaker 2:I remember another one of the churches that we went to. She's been a miniature church. I started going because my best friend had been going there. And this was after we left the the Black Eyed Peas Wrapping Church. I went to this church with my best friend, and they had a really it was a bigger church.
Speaker 2:They had a really good youth group. And a lot of those kids went to my school, too. And I did everything I could to try to fit in with these people. Like, I'm in like, in our Sunday school class, they would always cook breakfast. They would ask for volunteers to cook I was cooking breakfast.
Speaker 2:I was trying to chitchat with the people. I was trying to be friends with the teachers. And no matter what I did, I could not connect with these people. And when I got to school and saw them, they were not nice to me then either. It was kind of like a cordial relationship.
Speaker 2:But that's been my relationship with people in church. Always like a, oh, we're so happy you're here, but you haven't been here as long as we have. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Or you missed two Sundays in a row.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like, how dare you? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And if I don't know. We we're so easy to judge other people. And I think about how often I've been told in my life, get back in church. Get back in church.
Speaker 1:You just have to get back church. It doesn't matter what church. It doesn't matter if the church is helping you grow. Just get back in church. Get back in church.
Speaker 2:Let's say that one more time for the church.
Speaker 1:And and I think of other people that I know well that have had that same phrase thrown at them over and over again. Essentially being told and while most people wouldn't tell me this because I'm me. But essentially being told or having the message thrown at them that, like, if you are not in church, if you're not visibly showing the world that you're in church every Sunday or whatever, you don't get to say you have faith. You don't get to be a Christian.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna tell you what level of faith you have. Right.
Speaker 2:Because me being in church every Sunday makes me so good. And then I look at certain people who go to certain churches. I'm gonna tell you right now, they're not doing what they should be. Just because you're in church does not mean you're a good person. I'm not even gonna say Christian.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say good person. Mhmm. Yeah. And just because I'm not in church right now does not make me any less of a Christian Mhmm. Any less religious.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Or speak to anything about your faith at all. I think you can have just as broad of a faith inside and outside church.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I follow this missionary on Facebook. And I'm sure I've mentioned her before. Her name is Taneil Jane, if you wanna look her up. Mhmm. And she basically, one day decided she felt God's calling to go be a missionary.
Speaker 1:She went to Malawi, Africa, which is one of the poorest countries in the world, and just moved there to be a missionary. She doesn't have the support of any missionary organizations. She funds herself. Like, she takes donations on Facebook. She wrote a book.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:All kinds of different stuff to help fund this mission. And she doesn't go to church. Now there are I my understanding is that there are church spaces out there that she could go to, but they're further away. They don't function within her within what she needs to do. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So she doesn't go to church. Would you look at that person who has dedicated their entire life to God, everything that they are dedicated to God, and say, well,
Speaker 2:you don't go
Speaker 1:to church. Therefore, you don't have a broad enough faith. Therefore, you don't have a relationship with God. No. Of course, you wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1:That would be insane. But you will look at someone here who also could certainly have dedicated their life to
Speaker 2:God. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Who also could certainly be having a wonderful faith. And you would say to them, well, you don't go to church, therefore.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Well, I look at you and me. Mhmm. I feel like through this podcast, you and I have literally dedicated the last over a year Mhmm. Of our life on mission to set people free.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Specifically women. But to set women free of all these con like, all these rules that we've been told that make us feel less than. Mhmm. Which is why we're called we are more.
Speaker 1:Did you not catch on to
Speaker 2:that yet? Is this a new development? Hello. But I I do think, like, I look at you and I, and I think we're on mission right now. But I also feel the judgment.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Because you and I, our faith looks different Mhmm. Than what people think it should. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think as Christians, as people of faith,
Speaker 2:we should look different. I mean, I've said it once and I've said it again. Alyssa looks different.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying this in that same context I said earlier of, like, we should be set apart. And therefore, we shouldn't go to movies because people might think you're gonna go see a rated R movie and blah blah blah blah, which was a rule back in the day.
Speaker 2:Wasn't the passion rated R or something? Probably. If not, it certainly should have been. Yikes.
Speaker 1:I'm saying that we, as people of modern 2025 faith, should look different than the standard American church. That's what we should be set apart from. We should be set apart from the image that the church has created. I don't wanna look like that. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I wanna look like these other pieces of other faiths that we've talked about and pulled in today. And I wanna be generous. I wanna be kind. I wanna create relationships with people. Well, I'm an introvert.
Speaker 1:So that's a struggle for me. But in theory, I wanna create relationships with people. I wanna make people feel safe around me. Mhmm. Not with the purpose of, like, so that they get back in church.
Speaker 1:I just want them to see Jesus through me. And whatever they do with that's on them. But I want to be that person. Like, let your little light shine. I think if we can let our light shine in that way, be set apart.
Speaker 1:Be set apart from the stereotype of Christianity.
Speaker 2:I I wanna make people feel safe around me. I wanna be kind. I wanna be generous. I wanna be outrageously loving towards almost everybody. But at the same time, I want to be terrifying.
Speaker 2:Yes. Anybody who's out there thinking that they can manipulate the name of Jesus Mhmm. Or be doing wrong and think that they can get away with it. Mhmm. I want them to be terrified of me.
Speaker 2:And that's that. I think you
Speaker 1:can see that. When you become that person that is outwardly like, for us, we are violently feminist. Right? Like, you know that. This is not
Speaker 2:a surprise to you. Everyone in our life knows that. I know. Like, if you're gonna say a sexist joke, I want you to think twice. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I want you to say it and then look directly at me and then feel ashamed. Mhmm. I want you to feel ashamed of yourself. Because it's just
Speaker 1:not okay. Anytime you're justifying bad behavior. Yeah. I wanna be the person that you look at. And now you have to justify it to me.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. The the rest of the room might uncomfortably laugh. But I'm gonna stare you dead in the face.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I'm not gonna laugh. And I'm probably gonna vocally call you out on it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Kind but terrifying. I love it. Mhmm. On that note, Brie's gonna be gone for this week. So we have not planned for next week yet.
Speaker 1:However, we'll get there. You'll get there.
Speaker 2:I have a book with me.
Speaker 1:She won't finish it. There's no way.
Speaker 2:I actually have one, two, 3456 seven books with me. Good gracious. I wanted options.
Speaker 1:Well, you got them. Alright. So we will figure out what we're talking about next week. And you can live with the mystery because mysteries don't come off in in life. Can Google almost anything.
Speaker 1:But you can't Google this, so What are you saying? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Follow us on social media. We're on Instagram, TikTok, maybe Facebook occasionally. Share this with someone in Wow.
Speaker 1:You did a worse one than I did. Let's see. Where aren't we listened to yet? We're listened to in a lot of places. In Brazil.
Speaker 2:Yep. Share this with someone in Brazil. Yep. And I challenge you this week to be a little bit more generous, be a little bit more kind, and think before you speak,
Speaker 1:and a lot more terrifying.
Speaker 2:Although, honestly, I do not think before I speak, so maybe I should be preaching to myself. That's Breeze challenge for the week. Alright. We'll talk to you again next week. Love Love you.
Speaker 2:Bye.