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The Faculty Chronicles (TFC) podcast, sponsored by the Touro Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning (CETL), is about building community, connection, and conversation. It will bring to life the stories behind the great works of Touro faculty, across disciplines in all our schools, focusing on classroom innovation in teaching and learning, science, business, medicine, education, wellness and more.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:37:24
Unknown
Hello and welcome to The Faculty Chronicles, TFC, a podcast sponsored by the Turow Center on Excellence in Teaching and Learning and the Office of the Provost. Your TFC podcast hosts Army Professor Gina Bardwell and Dr. Elizabeth Enni. Across academic disciplines, Touro faculty are producing great work, and the Faculty Chronicles wants you to hear all about it. TFC Podcasts will highlight faculty chatting about their favorite project in research, teaching, learning, science, medicine, technology and so much more.
00:00:38:01 - 00:00:57:11
Unknown
So let's get busy building community connection and continuous conversation to provide our next faculty chronicle. Guest is on deck waiting to chat.
00:00:57:11 - 00:01:51:20
Unknown
I believe I was saving on my account. Okay. All right. And can you hear our voices? Clearly? Did I say something? Yeah, I can hear what the voices are coming in the same way. Mm hmm. You can hear my husband's conference call going on upstairs. I hope it is not too much. Can you wait till my husband starts this?
00:01:51:22 - 00:02:17:02
Unknown
Yes. All right. Okay. You ready to go? Yeah. We're good to go. Okay, So. So, Brandi, the baby knows that I started by saying welcome and introduce you and all this takes. Then we start going through the questions, and when we finish, I kind of say, Thank you, Dr. Stone, but I got to talk, and then you can say thank you to the audience and just kind of give it a pause and again say thank you.
00:02:17:02 - 00:02:37:15
Unknown
And then I say thank you to all the listeners and we sign off on it. Great. Okay. At any point of time, if you think that you know something, you are answering and you feel like I didn't go well, you know, say that and we can answer it again because it will all be edited. So, you know, or anything that you need to.
00:02:37:16 - 00:03:09:01
Unknown
Okay. I will. I apologize. Before we start in case one of my kids storms in, you can just say stop and then we start because we can edit it out. So that's amazing. Okay, great. Okay. All right. You give anybody you see? Ready to go? Yeah, I'm good to go. Yeah, we're good. Right. Hello, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of The Faculty Chronicles sponsored by the Toro Center of Excellence in Teaching and Learning.
00:03:09:03 - 00:03:35:15
Unknown
I'm Elizabeth Rooney, co-host of this podcast from the College of Pharmacy in New York. Today, we have Dr. Brandi Stern with us as the guest. Dr. Stone is the academic dean did the Torah School for Lifelong Education. She's also the director of the Freshman Center, a program aimed for high school students who can earn college credits. Dr. Stone got her undergraduate in psychology from Brooklyn College.
00:03:35:17 - 00:04:10:09
Unknown
Her master's in social work from the University of Pennsylvania. And she received her Ph.D. in social policy and a, what was that administration? She received her Ph.D. in social policy and administration from the CUNY Graduate Center. Dr. Stone, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here. So to start with Dr. Stone, can you tell us a little bit about a journey at all when and where you started with Durrell and where are you now?
00:04:10:11 - 00:04:45:09
Unknown
Oh, wow. Okay, so I actually started at Touro probably about 20 years ago. I actually I adjunct did for a few courses. I got some psych courses, and then I took a little bit of a break. I went back to get my Ph.D. and after I completed my Ph.D., I came on, I joined the School for Lifelong Education as an assistant to the dean to the assistant Dean, who was actually planning to retire.
00:04:45:11 - 00:05:22:03
Unknown
And she trained me into her position. And after she left, I became the assistant dean of the School for Lifelong Education. And I've been in that position for the last 14 years about and it's been just a wonderful experience. I, I moved on from being an assistant dean there. I am still the dean there, but I've been promoted to academic Dean and I'm director of the freshman Center, which I took on that role about five years ago.
00:05:22:05 - 00:05:55:15
Unknown
And just to quickly explain what the freshman center is, if I could, it's a dual credit program where students who are in 12th grade are able to take courses while they're in high school and earn college credits. These are high schools that have a relationship with Touro where their courses have been approved as college level courses. There are teachers have been approved to teach on a college level and the students are able to earn up to 12 credits a semester while they are in 12th grade.
00:05:55:17 - 00:06:26:18
Unknown
The program that I work with is basically the freshman center is with the Orthodox Jewish schools, and it's just been wonderful because it it really, really jumpstarts the students in their education and it gives them an introduction to Touro and it's just a wonderful program. So that's the freshman center. And do you want me to explain a little bit about the the School for Lifelong Education?
00:06:26:20 - 00:06:48:23
Unknown
Yeah, actually, that's what I was about to ask you now. So you are trying to be Dean at the School of Lifelong Learning. So that's a very unique name for a school, the School of Lifelong Learning. So it's actually the School for Lifelong Education. Education. Yes. So can you tell us a little bit about that program? You know, like how long the school has been?
00:06:48:23 - 00:07:21:22
Unknown
There was a need for such a program. Yeah. So the School for Lifelong Education was actually started and I believe 1986. So it's been around for many, many years, was started by Dean Jerome Miller. May he rest in peace. He was he created this program for the Orthodox Jewish community. It basically most of the students were actually, from what we consider, depending where you're standing, the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community.
00:07:21:24 - 00:07:56:24
Unknown
It was for students who were married, had kids, had a family, were juggling a lot. And this program allowed them to take classes and to earn a degree in a secure environment where they were being there, being hand-held. But also the program was created so in a flexible way so that they were able to schedule classes around a the Jewish holidays, around their schools, their children's schedule.
00:07:57:01 - 00:08:29:24
Unknown
The classes are offered in different modalities, and it just made it much, much more flexible for them. The I'm Jerome Miller started this program. However he worked with Shoshana Goren, who came on I think a year after he started it. And she really took over the program and she really, really made it what it was. She was you know, she Shoshana, unfortunately retired at the beginning of this year, but she really made the program a program that worked for the community.
00:08:30:00 - 00:09:08:24
Unknown
She came from the community, and she made sure that the students were being taught in a way that they could handle it and that they could understand that the program, as I said, it had three modalities. The modalities are that they were either taught in classroom format, which is the traditional way that we think of classes that you meet once a week for two and a half hours, or there are collaboratives which meet every other week so that the students were doing some work in the class and some work they do at home and then mentor drills, which is guided learning, where the instructor works with the student one on one.
00:09:09:01 - 00:09:32:08
Unknown
And this program has been running successfully since since then. And like I said, until this year, Shoshana has really been the one who has been the driving force. When I joined the I took over the academic being part, but she was the one who does who did all the recruitment and the working with the students. And it's really was really her baby.
00:09:32:08 - 00:10:09:09
Unknown
And I hope to be able to continue it. So when you see that the courses were offered in three modalities, the traditional modality, the collaborative one and the mentoring one, but the the outcomes or the learning goals and the learning outcomes and all of the same for all of the three modalities. Yes, Yes. We have some we more or less set up which classes are going to be offered as classes, which are going to be offered as collaboratives and which will be offered as mentor deals.
00:10:09:11 - 00:10:33:15
Unknown
However, we can we can change that around like if there are some students who need a course and it's not being offered that semester as a as a mentor, we can offer it as a mentor, even though we often offer it as a collaborative or a class. Because as you said, the outcomes, the goals for the class, they're all the same no matter what the what the mode modality is.
00:10:33:17 - 00:10:55:13
Unknown
And the student walks out knowing the information the same way, no matter which way they've taken the course, because that's how the courses are created. They're created to cover the same material. So can you, can you for the audience who are listening to this, can you give us an example of a course that is being offered in the mentor, really one which is being offered in the collaborative?
00:10:55:15 - 00:11:33:10
Unknown
Because I think the traditional one, we all know how that works out, right? They can go and look one in the other two. Okay. So a collaborative question. For example, if the students were taking abnormal psychology, which is a you know, it's not an introductory level course, it's a little bit more advanced. The class would usually it runs as a small size because it was actually this program was actually created to mimic the idea of what's known as a double RA, which is a small group of people who learn together and they help each other learn the information.
00:11:33:10 - 00:12:04:09
Unknown
But then they also will go home and prepare the information. So they and then they come back and they review it. So that's basically the model that it follows. So it's a small class so that more information can be covered in in a shorter amount of time when they're face to face. So they would meet one week in person, learn the material, the instructor will teach it, they'll run it as a class, but in a more accelerated fashion.
00:12:04:11 - 00:12:37:01
Unknown
And then the next the over the next two weeks until they meet again. The professor usually gives work where the student will cover some of the material on their own, which the class will then also review, but cover additional information when they meet two weeks later. So you're you're covering material in a more accelerated fashion because a lot of it is being self taught where the main points are being covered in the class.
00:12:37:03 - 00:12:56:05
Unknown
The students have a midterm, they have a final some classes, they have a page, they have a paper as well. So that would be the collaborative, the Mentor Bill, which is, you know, some people think of it as an independent study. You know, we all know what independent studies are, but usually when you think of an independent study, it's like you mean the best.
00:12:56:07 - 00:13:19:21
Unknown
At the beginning of the year, they hand you a pack of papers and say, See what the end of the semester, just give me. The work in Montreal, works differently. It follows the the style of guided learning, which is that a professor will work with the students. I want to explain this method to a bunch of professors and they were like, Wow, who has a time for to do this?
00:13:19:21 - 00:13:50:09
Unknown
Which instructor has the time to do this? What we have is that the student is required to meet with the professor 5 to 7 times over the semester, depending how much time the student needs, but also how much time is needed to cover the material. And the professor will give the student an assignment and then go over the assignment with the student that they've done, but also make sure to cover points that the students seem to have not been able to grasp when they did the assignments.
00:13:50:09 - 00:14:13:15
Unknown
So there is know giving in work, the professor checking the work, the professor covering material, making sure that the student knows the material, also prepping the student for the next assignment, making sure that they are able to do the work. So it's definitely a lot more than the traditional independent study that we think of. And again, the student has midterms finals.
00:14:13:19 - 00:14:49:14
Unknown
It runs the same way as any other course would run. Got it. So so when you compare these three modalities, you know, obviously there is a advantage for each of them. And was a number of students who takes each of these kind of modalities like, you know, I'm just throwing in numbers. So if there are ten students in the traditional classroom, how many students compared to then, how many students are in the collaborative modality and how many are there in the mentoring modality?
00:14:49:16 - 00:15:17:00
Unknown
So the mentor drills will always be one on one. But we could have a professor meeting with, you know, anywhere between one student to 14, 15, 16 students over a semester. You know, it depends. Some of the classes are more popular than others. And as always, some of the professors are more popular. Some of the professors are able to handle meeting more students in the semester than others.
00:15:17:00 - 00:15:45:12
Unknown
And we're aware of that. Many of the professors who teach materials teach a number of them. So, you know, in one of their mentor drills, they might have one student, but in another they may have 12. But we break it up. But it's, you know, in terms of sections. But they will, you know, depending on the popularity of that course for collaboratives, we usually try to keep it smaller because like I said, we want it to move.
00:15:45:14 - 00:16:05:22
Unknown
So it could be anywhere between 3 to 5 students going up to seven. But we try not to make it more than that because we just want it to be something that's actionable so that the course is able to run. It also depends on how our, you know, how many students we have this semester. That's usually the way it works, right?
00:16:05:24 - 00:16:29:07
Unknown
So when we started, you said that this course or this program was developed for married people who are Orthodox Jewish. But, you know, when we think about New York, a lot of people have multiple responsibilities in know are so many of our students who come to our undergraduate programs or even a graduate approach to programs have families that are already working.
00:16:29:09 - 00:16:47:16
Unknown
So this is a kind of program that can actually work for anyone. Actually, you know, when you think about it, I like the travel time it takes in New York to make it to the college and go back. The cost of traveling, everything taken into consideration. This is something that can be taken by anyone. So can you tell us a little bit more about that?
00:16:47:18 - 00:17:28:23
Unknown
The students who are coming to this program, you know, who are they? You know, what are their backgrounds? What what are their goals? You know, why are they coming to this program? What are the trends that you see in the in the demographic of the students who come to this program? So that's a loaded question. So the program was, as I said, originally started in the heart of Bar Park, which for those of you who don't know, our park is the heart of like the ultra orthodox Hasidic community and much more So 20 something years ago, it was definitely a hub.
00:17:29:00 - 00:17:55:13
Unknown
And it's it it was then started with with keeping in mind that many of these students did not have a strong secular background. So there was definitely a lot of extra training that had to be done in terms of English and math, introducing them to topics that they may not have had in high school, which we consider normal for the regular student to have.
00:17:55:15 - 00:18:21:09
Unknown
But these students came in with such a fire that they wanted to learn that it was it's just a great population to work with. Our students were are are very, very driven over the years there has been a shift in our student body and a lot of that has to do with the simple demographics and, you know, a lot of the students who would have come to us have moved to other places.
00:18:21:11 - 00:18:57:02
Unknown
But it's also a shift in know competition that's out there. We've seen there's been an opening, you know, many, many other programs, fast programs, have opened up in in the Borough Park and neighborhood online programs that they're using or quicker programs are available. And we've also seen a shift in the education that's happening in the high schools, where many of the students do have a stronger background when they come to us.
00:18:57:02 - 00:19:24:02
Unknown
But our you know, the idea of helping students who do not have a strong secular background is definitely still there. And we do work with those students and they do come to us at the beginning of the semester. We actually did move out of our path and we are now at the Ocean Avenue campus on Avenue J. We there's a big, beautiful building there that we they have room for us there and we moved in there.
00:19:24:04 - 00:19:47:07
Unknown
And if we were to look at what our student body is now, it's definitely changed from that. We still have a number, a nice number of positive students and ultra-Orthodox students who come and married, you know, students who come because they want that flexibility. But we also have the nontraditional student who's looking for life experience credits because we do offer life experience credits.
00:19:47:09 - 00:20:29:22
Unknown
And that's the idea of a student being able to show that they have worked for years, for example, in education. And over that experience that they've earned, they actually have covered all of the material that's in a course. For example, if we were to look at an education course of literacy from 1 to 6, if you have a great 1 to 6, if you have a woman who or a man who has taught in those top that subject for 20 years, they may be able to show you their experience in a portfolio indicating that they actually have enough knowledge of that subject that would encompass what goes on in a classroom teaching that.
00:20:29:22 - 00:21:08:10
Unknown
So we offer that. So we are we are open to students who are nontraditional students who have been out of school. You know, let's say they started college years ago. They're coming back. They want to complete their degree now. They are, you know, have busy lives. But this schedule and this flexibility works for them. We are also open to students who have life experience, which they'd like to get credits from Torah will will offer or will, I guess, give up if if a student can show that they earned it up to 45 credits of life experience.
00:21:08:12 - 00:21:44:07
Unknown
So that's actually I'm sorry, I'm going to go back. I think it's up to 40 credits of life experience. So that that is something that definitely people in the community want. But we're also getting people who are not from the ultra-Orthodox community who are interested in trying to get life experience credits. So it's it's shifted a little. We have the nontraditional student, but we're looking at a different population maybe of what we thought of as a nontraditional student 20 something years ago.
00:21:44:09 - 00:22:06:02
Unknown
Very interesting meeting, such in need of the community and, you know, giving credit to people who are want you know, that's that's how the real life is they want and they have learned it on the way. So that's good. That's good. So so atypical when you think about a program. One thing that we always want to know is that the evaluation, the outcomes, Right.
00:22:06:04 - 00:22:37:07
Unknown
You know, what is happening at the end of it because it is a great concept and you are doing it for 20 some years. I'm sure it is a successful program. So can you share as a bit about the program's outcomes, the way you evaluate it and what have you seen as the outcomes? Well, I can I can tell you like from since I'm doing this, we've had students who have started at basically not being able to write papers.
00:22:37:07 - 00:23:09:14
Unknown
They started with no secular background, having gone to schools that didn't stress a secular background. And we've worked with those students and we've had students from that backgrounds who have gone to Harvard Law School, and we've had students from that background who have gone to medical school. There are students who have graduated from this program. I use the word actually alumni who have masters.
00:23:09:14 - 00:23:45:16
Unknown
They have doctorates. They've they're working in schools or in like hospitals, legal offices. We basically cover the gamut of where people have gone. And there's no you know, there's no limit. When we look at it, we look at the Hassidic community. Many of the schools that are there, their principals are graduates of our program. You know, they started by us, got their bachelor's degree by us, and then continued on whether it be at a time that didn't have an education department yet.
00:23:45:16 - 00:24:12:24
Unknown
So they went to different programs, but many of them completed their degree in terms of graduated program. But we you want to know how do we evaluate our successes? You walk that, we walk down the streets. I mean, Shoshanna always talks about it. If you meet her, she'll she'll tell you, you know, she'll go to a wedding or she'll go walk down the street and meet people who are, you know, belly.
00:24:13:04 - 00:24:33:01
Unknown
They'll be able to tell her, look where I am now because of your program. I'm a director of a school or I'm, you know, I'm working in a in a hospital or I'm a P.A. or I'm, you know, a psychiatric P.A. and it's just there's there are stories one after the other. And, you know, she has a host of successes.
00:24:33:03 - 00:24:55:16
Unknown
You know, I'm I'm I think of myself as a newbie compared to her. But I meet people and they'll tell me, you have no idea how your program changed my life. And it's just it's it's wonderful to be able to evaluate it that way. It's a success stories that that we actually see alive. But then again, like every other program, we evaluate it at the end of the semester where we, you know, look and see the students have graduated.
00:24:55:16 - 00:25:19:05
Unknown
How many graduates do we have but how many haven't completed? But we actually have a very high success rate in terms of graduation because we do a lot of hand-holding. When the students come in, we really, really walk them through the program and make sure that they graduate. And there are so many students who have come to me the first day and they're like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be the oldest student in the class, right?
00:25:19:05 - 00:25:35:09
Unknown
You have a whole bunch of like little girls or little boys who are in the class. I'm going to be so much older than that. I'm like, No, I guarantee you there will be older students and you and yes, some of them are older than their professors who are standing in front of a classroom and they're like, Oh my gosh, And I'm starting off and I have no credits and I'm never going to finish.
00:25:35:09 - 00:25:57:04
Unknown
And I always, you know, I have to tell them, look, we're going to do it semester by semester. We're going to get you through this. And it's amazing to me how how quickly time flies. And it's almost like it's just time flies. They're walking down that aisle at graduation so quickly. It's amazing. Wow. That's that's really beautiful. That's very beautiful.
00:25:57:06 - 00:26:18:05
Unknown
You know, something that is said as we do all those metrics, we look at the graduation rate, you know, time to graduation, everything but the real successes. When people approach you and say, hey, look where I am now because of your program, that's a that's a beautiful way to see how good the program is. You know, congratulations for such a beautiful program that you have developed.
00:26:18:07 - 00:26:53:23
Unknown
So before we wrap up, I have one more question. So to anyone who was listening to this program, what are the kind of so like the are the tracks or, you know, the courses that you have? So I just have an essay Colleges one. What are the other undergraduate courses that you have like the main ones? Okay. So Tara was actually at the tourist school for lifelong education actually offers associate degrees, which are degrees that students earn.
00:26:54:02 - 00:27:20:03
Unknown
They earn 60 credits and they have to, of course, complete some some requirements for that. But it's it's considered like the first degree. It's an associate degree. And we offer that an associate in liberal arts, which every student who comes into our program starts off as an associate student, and then they get matriculated into the bachelor's program. And in our bachelor's program, we actually offer either A, B, A or B.
00:27:20:03 - 00:27:40:11
Unknown
S, But most of the degrees that we we offer, we either offer like a straight psychology degree, which is, you know, a traditional psychology degree. We could offer an education degree, studies degree. I'm sorry. Hold on one second. You have to go out. I'm sort of in the middle. I don't know. Please go out. I'm going to the podcast.
00:27:40:17 - 00:28:23:03
Unknown
Yeah, go get them. Sorry. I want you. I want you. This would happen just out of. I'm sorry about that. We also offer it a degrees or B.S. degrees in in traditional subjects such as psychology, education. We can offer it in human services or in Judaic studies as well. What the other degrees, which is really where we have most of our students completing their degree and is what we call what's called interdisciplinary interdisciplinary degrees.
00:28:23:03 - 00:28:45:03
Unknown
And those degrees are where we combine two areas of study. It's not a major and a minor, although that's how many students think of it. It's considered a primary concentration and a secondary concentration where a student will focus on two areas and then we connect them with what's called a bridge course. So they're major. Just like any major runs between 30 to 70 credits.
00:28:45:03 - 00:29:18:19
Unknown
Their major will also run within about 32 credits to 36 credits, where, for example, many students will do a primary concentration in education and a secondary in psychology. Then they'll take a course Psych of the exceptional Child, which sort of bridges the two areas together. We have students who will do Judaic studies in one area and economics in another area, and then they'll take a course like business, Jewish business ethics, which will combine the courses and their E.
00:29:18:24 - 00:29:47:22
Unknown
What that allows for them is to actually have experience and have information from two different areas and then they can go out to continue on the students who have done psychology and education, many of them will go on and do special ed students who have done, you know, we have economics and policy. A lot of those students will end up going to law school.
00:29:47:24 - 00:30:14:06
Unknown
We combine different areas. We have many students also who have done sciences like biology and psychology, and those students will apply to school or school or, you know, those schools which want you to have both of those backgrounds. So that's where we mainly focus in terms of interdisciplinary degrees. But we also have a strong, you know, number of students who who will go for a straight psychology degree.
00:30:14:08 - 00:30:48:05
Unknown
And, you know, if a student comes to us and they start off and they decide that they want to get a degree that we do not offer, we prepare them until they're ready to, we basically help them get to where they want to go. So if we're unable to give them the bachelor's degree that they want, for example, a student who would like to major in accounting and we don't give an accounting degree, we will help them up to a certain point and then we'll help them transfer to Flatbush Avenue J campus or another program that does offer one of those degrees.
00:30:48:05 - 00:31:15:08
Unknown
And we make sure that they're ready and prepared to go to that program. Well, that's so beautiful. Well, thank you, Dr. Stone, for such a wonderful talk. It was such a pleasure listening to the School for Lifelong Education Session and the students that will come there. And the way your faculty and your administration is working with them to help them reach what they want to be and then let them go to the will of that.
00:31:15:11 - 00:31:36:03
Unknown
That is such a beautiful way that you expressed it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. It was wonderful joining. Thank you. Thank you to all our listeners signing off. Elizabeth only a podcast co-host until the next episode. All right. A good okay.
00:31:36:03 - 00:32:19:02
Unknown
Thank you for tuning in to the Faculty Chronicles TFC Turtles Podcast featuring the projects and work of faculty throughout the Toro College and University system. TMC is sponsored by the Office of the Provost and Kettl, the Center for Excellence in Teaching and Learning. We hope you like what you heard and will keep listening. So join us next time on The Faculty Chronicles as we highlight and share faculty achievements that build community connection and continuous conversation.