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The Net Assets podcast delves into the most pressing issues in independent school business and operations. Delivered by NBOA, the only national nonprofit membership association focused exclusively on fostering financial and operational excellence among independent PK-12 schools, each episode is based on a popular article in NBOA’s Net Assets magazine. Chief financial and operational officers alongside other leaders of school business share what inspires and challenges them as well as their approaches to problem solving and innovation. In each lively exchange, host Jeff Shields, NBOA president and CEO, teases out the human stories behind the printed story.
Volunteerism can take any number of paths, and you might just think it's something small to start with, and that might be right for the time. But then it can grow, and I believe that out of volunteering, will always get much more out of it than you put into it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Net Assets Podcast. You're really in for a treat today. I'm being joined by MBOA's immediate past chair, Duncan Booth, who's the chief operating officer at the Saint Paul's School in Brooklynville, Maryland outside Baltimore. Welcome, Duncan, to the Net Assets Podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Jeff. Thanks for having me today.
Speaker 2:And you are being joined by Beth Pollard, who is the chief financial and operations officer at the Ensor School in Nashville, Tennessee. And Beth is our current MBOA board chair, but you two aren't strangers to each other, are you?
Speaker 1:No. We spend a little bit of time together.
Speaker 3:Yes. We have.
Speaker 2:Valuable time. Absolutely. And I've been happy to be able to participate with you during this journey. We're gonna spend our time together today on the podcast talking about all things leadership and governance, and there's something that's really interesting about the relationship between between MBLA and our member schools. We're both nonprofits.
Speaker 2:We both have boards. Actually, I could continue that and say we both have a primary revenue stream, our primary expenses step. We've got a lot in common, and so we're really gonna spend this time thinking about your leadership roles within the association and how that may impact board leadership and your work with boards at independent schools. But I'm wondering, just giving people a flavor of the NBOA board as our icebreaker, are there any traditions during your tenure on the NBOA board that are really ones that you think about and really had an impact on you or something that really sits in your memory bank?
Speaker 1:It would exactly. For me, it always comes up that we do an amazing job of having our spring meeting and the location for the following annual meeting. I think it surprises people that we would do it that way, but it gives us such a great insight on where we're going to be for a couple of days with all of our colleagues and peers in the following February. And I love that spring meeting because it's also a chance for us to recognize our director colleagues who are leaving us at the end of their terms, and that is always fun. And then I think on a smaller level, one of the traditions I preach for myself is when we all get together for our annual meeting, I have a secret way of coming up with who's gonna start our member scan in our meetings the following day.
Speaker 1:So I think it's gotten to the point now where it may not be a secret, and that there's people people ducking me in the hotel lobby, so they're not the first director I see.
Speaker 2:That's right. And I don't know if Beth can borrow that trick. That whole tradition that you just cited really started for a practical reason, which is we could get more favorable contract terms for our spring board meeting if we link them to our annual meeting contract. So that was really the idea or not even an idea, the necessity at a time when we really wanted to be efficient and use our resources well. But I'm glad that's made an impact on you.
Speaker 2:How about you, Beth? Any traditions that come to mind on the MBUA board that our listeners may not know about?
Speaker 3:I think Duncan referenced it. But in the member scan that we do at the start of every board meeting, I have found to be such an important way to start the meeting and kind of center us all on what we'd been thinking about. And so the member scan, we ask each member of the board in a certain period of time, a short time period, to share something that they've been working on or wins that they've had or issues or challenges they're facing. It could be personally or professionally. And I think it just brings us closer together and reframes the importance of how we support each other and how NVOA supports each of the business leaders.
Speaker 3:And I think it's just a really great way to start each board meeting.
Speaker 2:I have to say that is something that the board continues to highlight and say it's really meaningful to them. And I can't help but reminisce about the board chair when we introduced that idea who said, are you kidding me? You wanna spend that much time? We spend about an hour bringing everyone into the room, but I have thought ever since it was an hour well invested. And the testimony to that is that I know of other individuals who have brought the member scan to other boards they work on because they think it's such a great way to invite people into the media.
Speaker 2:That gives some folks some insight. I think the real core of this for me and really getting your perspective on is being a volunteer leader, being a member of your professional association's board of directors. I already covered all the parallels. How has being on the opposite side of the table at MBLA informed your business leadership role at your independent school? Duncan, can you speak to that?
Speaker 2:You've been at two different schools during your board service, so it'd be interesting to get your perspective.
Speaker 1:When you think about board roles, you have the fiduciary, the genitive, the strategic. And as having been on a board, I have a lot greater appreciation for the cadence and the importance of those three levels of work as it needs to occur in our schools, and that sometimes boards need a reminder to get out of the weeds and to keep it up at that level in terms of strategy. And I think sometimes there's just this perspective that maybe it just should be so easy for boards to make decisions, and that's not always the case. I think we, by virtue of that organized approach and having lots of opinions and perspectives in the room, leaving time and space for deliberate discussion doesn't always mean that you're going to come away from every conversation with a decision, and it does leave you opportunity to come back to that same topic at a later time if you need more information, if the staff needs to go back and gather more data, answer some questions, whatever the case may be. So I think if you haven't had this experience, you might just think that board decisions are so easy and that it's a little bit more complicated than that when you've been in that.
Speaker 2:It sounds like it's giving you more patience. And understanding that boards come in and out of the organization. Staff are there every day, but boards come in and out, and that's why the pre materials, the building context in the boardroom, the creating space for sufficient discussion and questions. And I can see how particularly business leaders could get impatient with governance. Right?
Speaker 2:Yes. We're quick decision makers. And, Jim, that's really interesting point, Duncan. How about you, Beth?
Speaker 3:I would agree with a lot of what Duncan said. I think it's definitely made me have a different perspective. I think when you go into a board meeting as the CFO or the CFOO and you're presenting material is very different than being in the board meeting. It's reminded me, as you mentioned, Jeff, is that board members are only coming in for whatever your cadence is for board meetings. And so making sure you communicate materials well in advance and you do a really good job, it's really made me rethink what I present preliminarily to the committee or the board before a board meeting, because I think NBOA does such a great job gathering the material, sending it out ahead of time, making sure we're prepared to come into the meeting so that we can be strategic and provide back the right information to NBOA in a very thoughtful way.
Speaker 3:So I think it's made me think about my role. It also has made me think about how important it is to wear that proper hat when we're sitting at the MBUA Board and not get into the weeds and really allow us to be strategic and provide that governance and fiduciary oversight so that we can support the MBOA mission and resources, but definitely stay out of the weeds.
Speaker 2:And we're not no. It's perfect. No board is perfect. I recall a recent conversation about water bottles where we were forced to ask ourselves if we were actually governing in that discussion. I think we all determined we were not, but I think there's enough confidence and there's enough respect for us to see how easy it is, and you can probably empathize with your boards, how easy it is to get drawn into those discussions.
Speaker 2:But I think, again, we have the mutual respect to say, time out. We're gonna step out of this. We're gonna step out of this and move on, which I think develops over time, develops through orientation, training, etcetera, etcetera. Speaking of training, Beth, you spent a year as chair elect before assuming the board chair role. That's maybe a somewhat unique model.
Speaker 2:I know it's not completely foreign to probably many nonprofit organizations, but it's the one we employ at MBLA. What was that year like as chair elect shadowing Duncan as board chair?
Speaker 3:I've really enjoyed it. To shadow Duncan and to really sit beside him through our regular meetings with Jeff and planning for board meetings and planning for committee meetings, it's really given me some additional insight about what the expectations are, what the role is. And obviously, from someone like Duncan has just been so helpful. And I'm happy that he will service past share for another year, and we can continue to work together just to make sure that we're doing the best job possible for MBLA and for you, Jeff.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you saying that, and I'm sure Duncan does as well. What I get to observe is the transition to board chair. And what's interesting to me is that you come to a board like MBLA based on your experience in the profession, your insights, your engagement with the association, your contributions to date. When you step into the board chair role, that all doesn't matter quite as much. Your job is really to draw other people out and draw out their experience, their knowledge, their insights.
Speaker 2:Duncan, does that resonate with you?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think the biggest transition for me, and I don't feel like I did it really my first time, was managing the room. There's this shift from being in the room to managing the room as board chair. And so I felt like the biggest change for me was over preparing from the materials perspective. As Beth mentioned, we get a tremendous amount of materials and a dance.
Speaker 1:And but there is a difference between preparing for them and just knowing them to the point where you don't have to look at them anymore. And so that was my biggest change, was over preparing from a materials perspective so that I could just basically watch the room. And we spent a lot of time all the way from the nominating process to onboarding, welcoming all the directors to the room, around making sure everybody feels like they belong and they're included. And so that ability to manage the room and maybe call out on somebody during the meeting, or maybe even if it's just something as subtle as checking back in with somebody after the meeting to see if there was something that they wanted to follow-up on. So I think that was the biggest change for me, and that certainly carried over for me in just regular meetings here in on campus.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm a much better listener and observer than I used to be. It's more of greater awareness of who maybe have something to say or something was said that didn't quite sit right with them. And so that's been beneficial to me here at my St. Paul's work.
Speaker 2:And you also, when you're in the boardroom at your schools, really can respect when you see that being done well by a board chair or by your committee chair in your schools. You really have that insight. Oh, I see what he or she was doing right there, and that kept us on track. That kept us moving, which I think is really more art than science. And like you said, Duncan, your first meeting was probably very different than your last meeting in your ability to read the room and facilitate that dialogue.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:For sure. So in a nutshell, why, based on your experience, what makes the NBOA board function well as a governing body from your perspective?
Speaker 1:I would start with your leadership and the tremendous support of the of the entire team and the staff. It's not a number of people in the past have said, oh my gosh. It must be so hard to be on that board, but it's not. You guys make it all very easy on us. We just have to come prepared and ready to contribute.
Speaker 1:I think that we again, back through the nominating onboarding process, I think we do a really good job of cultivating individuals who can bring their authentic selves to the room, to the group, to the committee. And then we keep everything at the appropriate level. And governance is one of the core missions of a not for profit. And if you're doing governance, then a lot of the other work can be very efficient and effective. So the I think you leave space, as our friend Joe Carter said, space and grace for time and discussion.
Speaker 1:But I think we have had situations where we've had sufficient discussion and we can make a decision, and we've had to have other times where maybe we needed to leave a little bit more time in the agenda for some more discussion. And we've been made that so that folks in the room feel like they have had a chance to share and that we're not boxed in by an agenda in the times that are listed there.
Speaker 2:What you say, there's a lot of
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, a little room. Because the flexibility or, frankly, the rigidity to an agenda or to moving through an agenda can feel pretty oppressive, if you will. Having trust in the room allows you that flexibility you just mentioned, Duncan.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The agenda is a tool, and I think the things that you and I and Rose had talked about at the time and now Beth is trust, transparency, and communication. So if you have that in the boardroom, I think it allows a lot of other really good work to take place.
Speaker 2:Beth, what's your perspective on that?
Speaker 3:I wrote down the same word. I said build trust. And I do think we spend time at every board meeting on a type of educational component. It can vary in different topics, but we have done several on trust and building that trusting relationship between the board. And I do think that's really important because it does give people the confidence and the ability to speak honestly and to speak in a group and not offline after the meeting or during a break.
Speaker 3:And I do think that's how we do our best work together is having good confrontation and talking through matters so that we make sure we come to the best decision. We can have those discussions in a meeting, but we know when we leave the meeting, whatever we've decided, we're going to all leave with the same voice. And that's the voice of sharing that decision of what's best for NBOA. So I do think building a strong culture, and trust is an important part of that culture, makes us a better board. And I applaud NBOA, you, Jeff, the staff because I think you take a lot of time in making sure we do things during our time together to build that trust and provide time and space to make sure everybody's heard.
Speaker 2:Well, time is your most precious commodity. Right? So I think there's a relationship, and this is applicable to schools between school administrative leadership and the board to say, in return for your time, we're gonna make sure you have the opportunity to have a meaningful discussion or make a valuable impact. Duncan, I always mention that to prospective board members. What does that look like for you?
Speaker 2:But I think that's the maybe unspoken contract between a nonprofit administrative leadership team and the board members that govern that nonprofit. When it works, it's really where I think a lot of good forward progress begins. I wanna make sure we talk about what's on the horizon. You're both will be leading the board this year. Duncan is past chair.
Speaker 2:Beth is chair. But what's on the horizon for the association as you see it from your perspective in the coming year?
Speaker 3:I think we have a lot of exciting things on the horizon. The board has been active with supporting the creation of the NBOA advisory services, and that was really exciting to be a part of from the board perspective, sitting at that strategic level and really looking at how this service could benefit independent schools and the needs of so many schools. So we'll continue to monitor that at the appropriate level. We also will be entering into a new strategic planning period in the next year or two, and that will basically set the sights and the goals and strategic pillars for NBOA, which is a very important process. As always, we have a lot on our plate that comes from the great NBOA staff.
Speaker 3:And it's just fun to work on it and make sure that we are supporting business officers in a lot of different ways, which is what NBOA does so well. And making sure that we not only are focused on what we're doing now, but on the financial sustainability and vitality of NBOA. We've got an exciting couple of years ahead of us.
Speaker 2:We're never at a loss for what's going to be coming next. Duncan, what would you add to that?
Speaker 1:I think it's impressive that BambioA and you and the team have used the long range financial model that was created for independent schools to do some of that financial sustainability work that Beth mentioned. I think that's a perfect example of keeping the work at the right level in the boardroom. You're sharing higher level long term projections by using the model that you created for schools to talk about putting your efforts to work. And I think we're coming at all this work, those various pieces that Beth mentioned, from a really good place. We did some of the routine governance work that we're supposed to do by updating the bylaws this past year and revisiting our code of conduct for ourselves and our directors.
Speaker 1:And so I think, again, getting back to how do you get the good work done? You get the good work done by having a strong base. And by doing some of those kind of things, I think it gives us a really good base to work from.
Speaker 2:I appreciate all those comments. But as we wrap up, you are volunteers, and you each had a different volunteer journey to your board leadership role. What's your message for other individuals who maybe want to contribute to their professional association but haven't really gotten that engaged yet. What would your message be to them, and what should they expect if they do get engaged as a volunteer?
Speaker 3:Before I volunteered, I would say I was a super user of resources. I've been doing this now for nineteen years. I was at Darlington School for sixteen years and now three years at Insworth. But I have taken full advantage since the very beginning of NBOA resources and how it could help me be a better business leader and make sure that I knew not only what I was doing, but how I could advocate for my role, which I think is very important. And so I participated in BOI and the Leadership Academy.
Speaker 3:I've been to almost every annual meeting. And I think by learning and understanding through what I participated in how important the work of MBUA is and continues to be, it allowed me to understand how important it was and how much I wanted to move into that volunteer role. So I do think you need to really be passionate about the organization you're volunteering for because time is precious. Yes. I was on the MSBO board first and then was honored to be nominated and chosen to be on the MBUA board and then ultimately board chair.
Speaker 3:But I think volunteering for an organization that you believe in and you believe so much in its mission that the volunteering piece comes easy. But you also need to make sure that you're dedicated and committed to balancing out your day job and the volunteer job. And it's an honor for me, but it's also an opportunity to continue to advocate for the business officer role, which is very important to me personally and to the profession and to independent schools.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate you saying that. I really like the insight of the business officer role was different twenty years ago at schools. Yes. And when you said you your engagement with MBUA and in Misbo helped you advocate on behalf of your role on the importance of the financial perspective to independent schools. That may be a lot easier today than it was twenty years ago, but it continues to be important.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 3:It is. And I do think, not even being on the board, but having been in the profession nineteen years, if I meet young accountants or HR people, I'm an advocate for the independent school industry because it is so rewarding and challenging. And being in a mission driven institution of is really the best career choice I ever made. But then knowing that you have MBA to sit alongside you to provide those resources through a variety of different ways that I just talked about, it's great to be on the board and then to advocate for business leadership in independent schools, attracting people into the role, building up people's skill set in that role. And it's all possible because of being part of NBOA.
Speaker 2:That's great. We're gonna give the immediate past chair the final word. Duncan, what's your message for volunteers as you are wrapping up this leadership experience in the coming year?
Speaker 1:Similarly, I can trace my board volunteerism all the way back to my first opportunity, which was with an associate the Maryland Association, Ames. And I think at that time, I was treasurer, natural, right, as a CFO at Roland Barth at the time. And I had the opportunity to attend NACOBO in Dallas back then. And my first couple years at Rolling Park, I would not have classified my the same as Beth as a super user. But attending NACOGO changed that whole relationship.
Speaker 1:And then several years later, I think I went to my first meeting in San Francisco, which was your first meeting, I think, in Right. 2010. But I've always been a volunteer even back before I was in schools. And so I think it is that question of involvement, finding something that you're passionate about because you are gonna put in the time, and that time comes with the trade offs. We all have to catch up with our work in the evenings or when we're traveling and we're together.
Speaker 1:But if you're passionate about it, that's noise in the back of the room. And I think there's so many paths to volunteerism. Right? We've been extremely fortunate to be on the board these years. And I've said it before.
Speaker 1:This is the most important thing to me personally professionally. And I've gotten so much more out of it. It's made me a better person in so many ways. But it doesn't have to be this. And then now we have the constituent councils.
Speaker 1:There's the programming committee. There's any number of committees, and that's where it can start. Even attending something, I think one of the first ways we got exposed to each other was when I was on faculty at BOI, and that still sits as one of my best experiences. But volunteerism can take any number of paths, and you might just think it's something small to start with, that might be right for the time. But then it can grow.
Speaker 1:And I believe that out of volunteering, you will always get much more out of it than you put into it.
Speaker 2:That's a great message to land on. It's been really interesting for me to hear your perspectives about your roles rather than working with you as you're performing your roles. So thank you for making this time for the NetAssets Podcast. I really enjoyed it, and I hope you did as well.
Speaker 1:And I did. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:I did as well. Thank you so much, Jeff.
Speaker 2:And I want to thank everyone for listening. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. For more information on MBOA, visit us online at mboa.org. I'm Jeff Shields, MBOA President and CEO and your NetAssets Podcast host. Tune in next time.