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Everybody Else is a podcast about the invisible people who make life happen. What began as conversations with behind-the-scenes builders in the music industry has grown into a broader exploration of how people think, work, and carry responsibility across industries and across disciplines. Hosted by Wes Luttrell, the show centers on thoughtful dialogue with creatives, leaders, and operators whose work often goes unseen but shapes the world we live in. New episodes streaming every Tuesday.
speaker-0 (00:01.292)
This is the Everybody Else Podcast.
speaker-1 (00:10.39)
Most of the authors of the human story are unnamed. Invisible contributors to the greatest story ever written. So who are the invisible people writing our chapter today? Because behind every great city, industry, movement, and way of thinking are people who dedicate their entire lives to work that'll go virtually unnoticed. Work that builds on where we've been, shapes where we are, and points us towards where we're going.
There are those in the spotlight, and then there's everybody else.
speaker-0 (00:53.484)
Exactly. But it's for a little more seasoned, probably, individuals. I'm going to say late 20s to late 30s, that group, to also hone and say, what else do you want to do? Not that you want to be a congressperson or something, or the CEO, but you aspire for leadership, but it's also how to make your community better, Yeah, so it's the...
It's the next iteration of the Orr Fellowship. Gotcha.
speaker-1 (01:25.56)
There's a rainbow.
speaker-0 (01:27.36)
No, you don't get a stipend. know that's what you're thinking. You get expenses paid for. To be honest with you, Wes, I think you should tune into, mean, you can read about it. Yeah. This is great. And now that you know Tyler, you know, he'll be going through it. I know a couple other people have gone through it. One guy in particular is just doing some great things in the food, food is medicine space.
speaker-1 (01:41.198)
I've never even heard of it until five minutes ago.
speaker-0 (01:55.822)
So, but yeah, I'll introduce you to a few things. But what did you want to talk about today?
speaker-1 (02:03.402)
How'd you get into academia?
speaker-0 (02:07.436)
Really? Let's go back. let's go back. This, well, interestingly, so my father, he, I grew up in Canada. Okay. And my parents immigrated from India. So they immigrated from India to Canada. They were married in Canada and my brother and I came along. But my father,
has an academic background. has his, he had his PhD in pharmacology. Pharmacology is the study of drugs. So we used to say our dad's into drugs. love saying that as kids. And he was, no, he wasn't more of a, he was more of a biochemistry type thing, but he taught at a university where I was
speaker-1 (02:53.454)
Was he more of a chemist?
speaker-0 (03:06.222)
born and grew up in Ottawa, but then he went to the federal government where he worked for the equivalent of the Food and Drug Administration. So ever since I was young, I had a little bit more knowledge of what the academic life was, but I never thought about it for myself. Fast forward a long way, I came to St. Louis to do a graduate degree in Health Administration.
speaker-1 (03:30.318)
was your dream at that point if you had one?
speaker-0 (03:32.78)
Yeah. Well, as the son of Indian immigrants, we were all instructed culturally that we would either be doctors or engineers, right? So I thought I wanted to be a physician. so, but I came to St. Louis to do a master's degree in health administration, so the business side of healthcare. Still thinking I might want to go down the medical road. But I really enjoyed and got into
the other side of healthcare, which I saw as making or at least contributing to bigger changes, more structural changes that could impact more than just one patient at a time. I don't know if I was ever cut out academically to go down a medical school route. I'm pretty sure I wasn't, but I've really enjoyed this. then at the same time,
I happened to go meet a couple people at St. Louis University, one who was a professor who they had just started a PhD program in healthcare ethics, in medical ethics. And I'd really enjoyed that too. And he asked me if I wanted to join. I had no ever thought about doing a PhD, but I did. And I continued to work at the hospital where I was.
And my interest was more in the business side of ethics, healthcare. But I really thought I would continue down the administrative role in healthcare. And then this advisor of mine, this Scotsman with a Glaswegian, Glasgow accent, said, should really think about academia, Kevin. And so I started to. I think it was just maybe
speaker-1 (05:22.06)
Why do you think he said that?
speaker-0 (05:27.022)
I think maybe he saw something in me about just been able to impact.
a different group of individuals, not just through teaching, but also through application. And so I found an opportunity in Evansville, Indiana, at the University of Southern Indiana, and I hadn't heard of USI before, that they happen to be starting a master's degree in health administration. The same program that I graduated from,
at SLU that I knew something about. And so, rolled the dice and interviewed and ended up parachuting into Evansville in 2001, so 25 years ago. to help start this program. I was pretty young at the time. I'd never really taught at a university before, but
I felt very much at home. And to this day, I feel very comfortable in two places, very comfortable in any type of academic or university atmosphere and in healthcare. So I love going into hospitals or skilled nursing facilities or clinics. I just feel very much at home and in any type of university. So I've been able to marry the two together, which has really been cool.
speaker-1 (07:02.968)
when you first got to USI, what was it like in 2001? What were like the people you met? It wasn't a very big university, I'm assuming, compared to where it is today.
speaker-0 (07:10.69)
Whoa.
speaker-0 (07:17.238)
It wasn't and certainly the growth, I will tell you, was a place that, and this is the way I'll always describe it, that you could, and I say this in a positive way, you could really do anything you want, which meant if you wanted to do something, the answer would be yes. It wouldn't be no. And that meant for, it was for everything.
If you wanted to, if you had an idea to start something, smaller, big, the answer would be yes. How can we support you? And I thought, okay, this is amazing.
speaker-1 (08:02.39)
Versus being at like a large and old institution where risk aversion might be the play right this was Let's do something. Yeah
speaker-0 (08:11.37)
Absolutely. Growth. And so it doesn't matter. It could be any type of organization. It could be a business. It could be a nonprofit. And I was young. And so here I am, a young person saying, do you think I could try this? And the answer would be yes. And now you take the lead, Kevin. We want you to plan everything. We'll support you. If you need some funds, we'll do that. If you don't need some funds, OK. And then I felt that...
That was really inspiring. It was very inspiring. And I started to learn quite a bit about the community, got involved in the community, you know, moved to the West Side because I didn't know anything about Evansville and loved, you know, living and raising my family on the West Side, but got involved in the community by individuals who said, you know,
would you be interested in serving on a board, nonprofit board? First board I served on was the Red Cross, the Southwestern Indiana chapter of the American Red Cross. I had volunteered for the Red Cross when I was in college. And so I had a little bit of history, but really got to meet some people in the community from all kinds of different walks of life, bankers and attorneys and community people.
and saw what an interesting community this was. And then also was able to participate soon after, a couple years after I got here, in Leadership Evansville, which is now Leadership Everyone. And that was a wonderful opportunity to meet people and understand what community leadership was. So this is outside the bounds of
through my USI job. So it wasn't just a job, it was a connection to the community. And that was really important. And that's what's kept me here.
speaker-1 (10:18.638)
It's interesting because I think that I had a conversation with a young kid last, like a college age kid last Wednesday and I said, you know, since this new line of work that I'm in, being around a lot of nonprofits, being around a lot of leaders across categories, I'm realizing that this place is, there's a lot of good people here who are genuinely trying to do or are doing
good work, good as in like for the good of humanity work. And it's really changing my perception of humanity as a whole. It's making me more optimistic and less cynical about the way things are. I mean that locally, state, national, world level, of course there's problems, but instead of bitching about stuff, I feel that, well, this is the way things are because people
and systems create things. And if you want something to change, literally, you have to participate. Or you have to understand those participating. So I think it's interesting to hear you say that, because I think that I'm just now arriving at that and I've lived here my whole life almost, except for a stint where I lived away. So if we go back,
to your early days at this new program, were there others like you who were eager to build and where did you begin? Was it already sort of laid out for you, this program? Because today, I feel like it's a strong, it's like a highlight or a notable feature of USI.
speaker-0 (12:05.302)
Yeah, the program, we had to build it from scratch, which was really sort of exciting. It's the closest I've come to being an entrepreneur, right, where you're creating something. And we were literally creating a program as students were coming in. So my first day at USI was on August the 1st, and classes with a new group of students, brand new, started three weeks later. We didn't have anything ready.
courses, we had a basic plan. was some, there was a director, a wonderful woman, Carol Hermes, who hired me and brought in another new instructor who had quite a bit more experience. And we, as a group, but with a few others, just sort of created stuff as we were, as the program was on found unfolding. And at the same time I was
you know, starting to grow as a junior faculty person, getting to know the community, getting to make connections to, you know, the healthcare in the community as well and what that meant. And also understanding the culture in this region. I didn't know really anything about just the culture, the history. And so that was for me most
I did a lot of listening and learning and that has sort of taken off ever since. But you're absolutely right, Wes. think there are this program, the program I'm still involved in was created to service the region. And that's really the mission of USI.
is to provide education for the region. Now the region doesn't have to be just a few counties in South Indiana. It could be the entire state. It could be a tri-state area. But it's to provide education and to elevate individuals and therefore elevating the community. And I think in a lot of ways it has. I'll tell you something just interesting. Yesterday,
speaker-0 (14:26.592)
I had to go up now this is sort of bragging a little bit. I had to go up and back to Chicago on the same day. Right. So I flew up in the morning. had to participate in this meeting. I was on this panel and I flew back in the, in the late afternoon, early evening and you were, said Chicago. Yeah, exactly. So, and I totally forgot. thanks for rescheduling. On the way back.
speaker-1 (14:43.726)
That's why you couldn't make the podcast. Had some big shit going on.
speaker-1 (14:52.75)
I'm glad that, yeah.
speaker-0 (14:55.022)
So I fall asleep on planes all the time. Like, just snoring. So on the way back, I was sitting beside this woman, and I knew I was gonna fall asleep. And when we, I woke up when the plane landed in Evansville, I just apologized for snoring. And she said, oh, no, no problem. You weren't snoring. Well, she was being nice. I know I was snoring through my teeth. And she told me, she said, is Evansville your home? And I said, yeah, I'm coming back. And I said, what about you? Have you been...
were you doing in Chicago? And she said she was at this conference. And this conference was actually in Wisconsin. So the dominant electronic health record in the country is called Epic. Epic is a gargantuan health record. It is in hospitals and clinics and all kinds of things. And every year, there's a huge Epic conference.
And it's in Janesville, Wisconsin. I think it's Janesville where Epic headquarters are. And she was there for a couple days. And I knew what Epic was. So she told me Epic. And I said, that's really great. And she asked me what I did. I said, well, I had a USI sweatshirt on. I said, I work at USI in health profession. And she said, are you Kevin Valadeiros? Well, she was a former student in our program years ago, right?
And I recognize your face, but I can't remember names as well anymore. so we actually hugged each other and, you know, and everything. But in a community like this, it is so easy, if you want to, to really connect with people and make connections. And it's one of the wonderful things. Now, but it's also easy to
Um, you know, when we all, uh, also have to do this, we, we can't be everywhere all the time. Um, just because of our lives. So it's pretty easy to hang out just on the West side or the new bird or whatever, live in that. And that's nothing wrong with that at all. But if you want to, man, you can get integrated in every way possible and make changes, small changes. Um,
speaker-0 (17:19.04)
or be part of the change. And I think that's one of the really unique things. I don't know too many other mid-sized communities like this in the country. Now, I don't have a lot of experience living in a lot of other places, but I think it's something unique.
speaker-1 (17:39.406)
Do you still listen primarily or have you, as your role has evolved in your position within the university, do you find yourself talking more?
speaker-0 (17:54.002)
Good question. think probably 10 years ago, I, 10 or 12 years ago, I did a lot of talking, mainly because I thought I really like the sound of my own voice. I really do. And then, you know, I, as you know, and I'll share a little about this, I've been interested from a leadership development piece in
emotional intelligence for 10, 12 years. Just personally interested. I knew it was important, not just from a leadership, but from every perspective. Why do people act certain ways? Why do I, you know, act certain ways? So a number of years ago, I said, I want to invest in myself and go through a real sort of a rigorous
emotional intelligence certificate program coaching program and I have a friend who's done something like this and He really inspired me to do this. He did the same thing so I
speaker-1 (19:06.102)
the one who introduced this to you.
speaker-0 (19:08.238)
In the first place. Yeah. So his name is Len Friedman. Len is a faculty at George Washington University and he's been a mentor of mine for years. he's, Len's in his early seventies and just a great guy, just kind man. And he, he went through this. So, you know, this time he's, he's in his sixties. He went through this and said, this is one of the best things I've ever done in my life.
So he gave me the information. went through it. I will say, Wes, it's one of the best things I have ever done for myself. Period. But I also wanted to use it. I wanted to apply it. And so for the past couple years, I have been, I would say, an emotional intelligence coach. Now I'm not professing to be a
executive coach or anything. I don't want to stay in my lane, but I really think this is important. Helping individuals understand themselves better wherever they are in life and then being able to apply it. And in fact, the meeting I went to yesterday in Chicago, we spoke quite a bit about how emotional intelligence skills are so necessary and how they can be learned and practiced.
And, but it's really about understanding yourself and how you show up in the world. This is the space I'm in. And so I've been able to, we've been really fortunate to be able to use this through USI with different groups in healthcare, with law enforcement, with random people like you, who I was thrilled when you wanted to go through this because you were starting a new chapter in your life.
It's about understanding yourself, how you show up, how you can think about how you show up to others personally, professionally, how maybe you could help an organization or a unit understand the culture that they want to set. So I think there's all kinds of ways, but it's also, it helps individuals just become
speaker-0 (21:30.434)
I think more confident in where they want to end up. And so this is a piece that I'm, I know I'm going to spend the rest of my time doing this within the healthcare space. We're incorporating it into our graduate program as well this summer. Every student will be exposed to this. everyone that comes through and
And I think the sky's the limit.
speaker-1 (22:02.126)
That's great. That's great. Tell me how, from your vantage point, has AI affected both the classroom and the professionals that you work with outside of the classroom? What is the general conversation like today? And what's your view on where things are headed?
speaker-0 (22:30.542)
It has evolved so quickly and it's really been amazing that certainly, I'd say four years ago, I became quite a bit more aware of AI in higher education and certainly in all healthcare aspects. Then you go three years ago and two years ago and where we are right now. And it is the talk.
Yeah. Initially from a higher education perspective, was the first, the first impression was one of fear. One that it would, so all the negatives came out, you know, whether it be plagiarism, cheating, fabrication, and
But it's evolved ever since. And because all of us have access to AI tools pretty much all the time on our phones, it is becoming much more accepted. So from a higher education position, I'll say that two years ago,
we had to address it as a university. so it was, but it was still very much fear-based just because we were all trying to make sense of it. There were some early pioneers in my field who were, they were probably the techno geeks. They were interested and they said, you know, look at the positive things it can do. Look at where it can go. You can use it for all kinds of things, but.
Let's think about how to incorporate it. That group has steadily grown.
speaker-1 (24:36.182)
Is that an official group within USI? Sort of like a steering committee? Or you just mean the optimistic people?
speaker-0 (24:42.158)
I mean the optimistic people. maybe what I was referring to, Wes, is not so much within our university. There is obviously within our university, but also within sort of the field of healthcare education. It has really evolved. Now if you go to academic conferences, like I'm going to one in June, it's our annual meeting, 70 % of the talks are on
AI, something AI related. There was a huge, every year there was a huge health informatics called HIMS conference, about 40,000 people around the country. 80 % of what they're talking about is AI content. How AI can make clinicians more efficient. I went for a doctor's, a dentist checkup in February and I had to have x-rays.
done. My dentist office here on the west side, excellent practice. And when the, so the x-rays were taken, the dentist and the hygienist looks at them and then they run my dental records through an AI program. And the AI program suggests a few more things. And the dentist was telling me, it's just a few more things, not right or wrong, just
Might you want to look at this with Kevin's molars or something? And it was just enhancing what the practitioner who has 30 years experience would look at. Not saying you're wrong or you're right, but think about this or think about if this, if he continues to do this in two years, this might turn out this way. enhancing it. And so
There are, it is used in, and I think that is a great help. the, will tell you the dental practice doesn't know how it works, but it's a very helpful suggestion. so it's incorporated already into the radiography type things. So turn that around. We have to
speaker-0 (27:04.66)
incorporate this for our students. If it's already out in the world and you can use AI to suggest, know, I want to create recipes for the week. What do I need for the grocery store? And you can get that. We can't shy away from it. Yep.
speaker-1 (27:26.346)
Especially like when the capacity for human augmentation in the busy life of somebody who's bouncing room to room or I think about this a lot with going to the OB with my pregnant wife is that she one second is talking to us about how the ultrasound went and what the plan is for birth and then the next second she might be actually
in a birth situation or doing an emergency C-section and then have to come right back and have another discussion with somebody on a different topic. Is there a conversation in your world that has the conversation evolved from efficiency as one layer into some sort of like capacity or augmentation or way of thinking like you were saying? Is that part of the narrative in terms of
not just doing more, but doing things better or being more present with your patients because you don't have to because some of the things are being automated for you or
speaker-0 (28:37.966)
Yeah, so the answer is yes, and I'll tell you this is where I see especially in the healthcare space Just because I know that a little bit more. Yeah how a combination of leaning into AI at the same time of leaning into emotional intelligence Yeah works together. So what you just said if your wife's OB is Her practice is using
different types of tools to enhance efficiency and effectiveness. It also means maybe she can spend more time with the two of you. Well, that spending more time with the two of you is really the communication skills, right? And so, or maybe addressing a deeper concern that she had, your wife has, and that concern
maybe calls for higher levels of empathy. Yeah. Okay, so I'm picking on empathy because I believe very much it's one of the emotional health behaviors that you gotta have this, you gotta lean into it, you gotta keep working on this. Now there's nothing about AI that is connecting to these emotions, but this is a behavior that you and I can practice.
but allows the physician to spend a bit more time being empathetic. so there are positives. What do you do with this? And I think the same thing is true in my world is for faculty members to, again, lean in to
these emotional intelligence behaviors to connect with students. It doesn't matter if the students are online or they're in person. We'll sort of model it for them, especially the health profession students. At the same time, using different tools that, you know, AI-generated tools that can really assist in ways and speed up certain processes to allow for more human interaction. So I see ourselves, Wes,
speaker-0 (31:02.252)
getting deeper into the human connection part, which is wonderful. In fact, it's what we need.
speaker-1 (31:11.626)
who said that the same principle I think applies with like when you're looking at the administrative side of a church or nonprofit or when you're looking at the administrative side, not even the administrative side, but like the paperwork side of a clinician. Who said that that was human or necessary to sacred when
The real work happens when two people are together or when you're working with somebody on addressing something or working through something. And if those things can be assisted, not just, it's not going to necessarily replace your job as much as it's going to make you more of an effective clinician or pastor or front desk secretary. Like these things are, or friends.
speaker-0 (32:09.322)
just a friend, right? So I will share with you one interesting thing connected to this. So our semester at USI is finishing right now. In fact, tomorrow is the last day of final exams. And in the last couple weeks of one of my undergraduate courses, which is a course on healthcare ethics, I addressed the topic of loneliness and social isolation. And so, and I
happen to focus on college-age students as well. So the college-age students in my class are all interested in being healthcare professionals. But it is a generation who has high levels of loneliness and social isolation for a variety of reasons. Yes. They're also, I will give it to them, very open about that. They're very open. And
They are nervous in this world where pretty much all they've known is AI technology. That's who they are, know, not 18 to let's say 20 year olds. But they're very anxious and anxious comes out in this type of interaction. So we dove deeper into that and I said, well, what are you anxious about looking someone in the eye?
and I, and that's because from them and I, it took me a while, but I understand it. they've grown up where you don't necessarily have to look someone in the eye when you have a device in front of you. Yeah. Right. when you're spending a lot of time, not
wasting time, but you're still connecting sometimes with hundreds and thousands of people, but you're not having to look them in the eye. Especially if there's an issue or they're upset or they're angry. Handshakes. You know, when I grew up, a handshake was just what you had to do to someone. Even if you were a child and you were meeting an adult, you at some point when you're old enough, you would be expected to
speaker-0 (34:32.257)
Shake hands.
speaker-1 (34:33.581)
Imagine you said that 35 or 40 years ago to somebody they'd like what the hell else would you do?
speaker-0 (34:38.442)
Exactly. father would me. He would slap me. He actually would slap me. But so a handshake now is, it's important, but we do have to coach individuals who are just not used to that. Yes. Well, those are the connection tools, you know, looking someone in the eye, shaking a hand. Listen, those are the things that connect us, but we do have to, I'm not saying that
our devices and our phones and TikTok are the, you know, anti-Christ or anything. There's a place for them and they do connect people and heck, can see, I love to cook and there's amazing recipes on TikTok that I've been introduced to. But it's the, it's the connection to each other or into groups that, that will take us
to human flourishing.
speaker-1 (35:39.274)
Bam, that word that I was literally in my head, this word flourishing. I've been thinking about this a lot as this sort of, I wouldn't say it's just exclusive to sides, but there seems to be people who view AI or sort of this next phase of humanity as a golden opportunity to flourish or sort of this dark cynicism of
everything's screwed. I would dare to guess, I think this is probably the only technological moment that I've been through like this and it's pretty unique. But like, yeah, I wasn't around the internet. I mean, I was, but I was a kid with the internet or when computers or when the printing press, sort of these like monumental shifts occur, the industrial revolution. I'm like, wasn't around them, but I would,
dare to say that there was two camps at those opportunities. But I think that the flourishing has to be taught. It has to be discussed and it has to be, it has to be, you know, it's funny is like, I went to YCC. I think I said this at our last campfire was that I hung out with 16 or 17.
speaker-0 (36:41.486)
Absolutely.
speaker-1 (37:05.122)
boys under the age or between the age of 13 and 17. All of them, except for maybe two, looked me in the eyes and introduced themselves. And I thought, what the hell is going on? They were like confident in a... But I understand that there's probably something else going on. I'm not saying like they had it all figured out. They're on a damn...
speaker-0 (37:17.55)
Thanks
speaker-1 (37:34.926)
corrections facility. But they didn't have the same sort of awkward looking down anxiety that a lot of teenagers have when I'm at family gatherings or social things that is sort of a posture that teenagers can take. And I was blown away by just like...
These kids, if they got themselves together, would be differentiated in the marketplace as people who can look adults in the eyes.
speaker-0 (38:07.786)
So, yeah, we're talking now about looking in the eye and shaking someone's hand as a tool to move forward. I will say this though, you know, let's not only, you know, categorize younger people. It's a lot of other generations here who are, who certainly, you know, grew up maybe at different times, but
we can still practice these things with everyone. so I think there's, you know, to sort of summarize your question about AI, I think we're moving in a different space now, as opposed to just being scared. More people are coming on board. We're interested in
You know, as I mentioned to you before, we're going to have a retreat in our department later in the summer about how to incorporate it in our curriculum, but also how to embrace it. And I'm using the word embrace. I think that's great. Everyone can decide how much they want to embrace it, but we have to embrace it because it's in the dentist's office already.
Your wife's OB is already using it. So in the healthcare space, it's already down a road.
speaker-1 (39:43.35)
I know a general clinician who said we use it every day.
speaker-0 (39:46.188)
Yeah. So it's there, which means why would we ignore it? Encourage it, exactly. And people are using it every day. It doesn't matter if they're using it to figure out their grocery list or to help them get thoughts together for a paper. It doesn't matter. I'm using it every day. Yes. But at the same time, if it allows us to be more efficient, well then
speaker-1 (39:52.343)
Why not encourage?
speaker-0 (40:15.854)
there's some other things that we can lean into and work on. And those are the things that can stand out. yeah, let's help each other look each other in the eye more often, shake each other's hand, and then connect with each other more.
speaker-1 (40:38.188)
A couple years ago, we went on a walk and you talked to me about, and you mentioned a second ago, your interest in loneliness. And that day we talked about it, particularly in older generations. I'm curious to hear about you and your life. You seem to be a social person who has multiple groups that you are a part of.
How would you look at those different groups in your life and sort of categorize them as sort of what they bring to your life and how you maintain your position in them? Because it seems like maintaining that will carry you through a happy life versus other people who don't have that and wither away watching TV land.
speaker-0 (41:25.358)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (41:33.07)
Yeah, so in 2023, the then Surgeon General of United States, Vivek Murthy, introduced his platform. Every Surgeon General has different platforms that could focus on heart disease or cancer. It used to be on smoking, maybe HIV, but Vivek Murthy focused on
loneliness as an epidemic in this country. And he also came out with a wonderful book around the same time. So I've been inspired by that, but then it, and really that led to a lot of the work that we're currently doing at USI. It does focus on older adults. I've also incorporated into college students, as I just mentioned.
And, but it's also been inspirational to bring it down to our local community level. I don't think when I was younger, I was a pretty shy kid. And I grew out of that shyness, especially when I came to the United States to study. And I would actually say I'm much more of an extrovert.
the social aspect of everything feeds me. And so the cure, if you can use that word for social isolation, loneliness, is relationships. It doesn't mean you have thousands of relationships. It's just relationships. And you can have strong relationships or what we call strong ties. But I think one of the most beneficial
are what's called weak ties. Weak ties is a term coined by a few sociologists. And those are the ties that we might not even know the person's name, but as an example, if you like getting coffee, overpriced coffee at Honeymoon, for an example, you will go in and meet the front desk.
speaker-0 (43:57.006)
not front desk, the front cashier and maybe a barista. And you see them. They recognize you, recognize them. You might not know their name, but they say, how you doing today? That's a weak tie. And so you don't know the name, but it sort of fuels you. Or if you're going to the grocery store and you might run into people that you know just from
a church or something, might not know their name, but you run in and you say hi, because you have a connection. That's a weak tie. So as opposed to like strong family friends and people living your best friend, the weak ties are key because they connect you to something broader, right? And it means you have relationships, they're not strong.
speaker-1 (44:43.735)
Why?
speaker-0 (44:54.242)
but they're sort of regular. You'll see the front counter people at honeymoon or the person you hand your laundry to or the checkout person at Schnook's more often.
speaker-1 (45:11.702)
It almost makes me think that from like a tribal standpoint, I feel safe because my, like the map in my mind of support stretches all around. Like I think about the West side, I can think of all these little businesses where I have weak ties.
speaker-0 (45:31.342)
So you've just coined something great. And in the unique areas where people live, West Side, or I think about some people I know who are from New York and they would talk about their neighborhoods and the neighborhood concept where you would go and you'd have a neighborhood dry cleaner, a neighborhood grocer or deli person, and you would know them and they would know you. Maybe it's generations. You would know everything about them.
But you'd say, you know, Mr. Samuel's ran this grocery store for 30 years. Yes. So the unique, and I think that's one of the beautiful parts about smaller community, smaller towns, small towns are fabulous for that. you, I love going to diners or family restaurants and we have so many of them in this area.
If you go there and you've been there with your grandparents or parents and you get to know a waitress or a bartender or something like that, those are the weak ties. Those are great. You might know a little bit about them, maybe know a lot about them, but those connect you. Those are just as important as the longstanding family relationships. So I think, but it's cultivating those and strengthening those that are key for
what's called social health. So the term has been introduced. We talk about physical health and mental health, social health, social health is about relationships. And it really adds to the flourishing as well. Those could come from a set group of individuals or they expand throughout one's life, but certainly as one becomes older,
Other things might happen. As an example, people, when they retire from a job, those ties, a lot of those ties go away. So, particularly for men, that becomes a little bit of an identity crisis because their job is what they did.
speaker-1 (47:54.758)
And I bet while they were at their job, a lot of people probably operate under the assumption that I am needed here, I am necessary, I am relied upon. And when I retired, that damn thing kept going. I'm just out here on my own now.
speaker-0 (48:14.488)
Yeah, I'm I'm not no one is consulting me. You know if you if you're in an office environment I'm not getting the email messages anymore. Yeah now there's positives of you to retirement which is why people absolutely but Right, but there that's a big thing I am not as Wanted anymore and so one of the words that is becoming very important. I think it's
speaker-1 (48:28.814)
They're putting that somewhere.
speaker-0 (48:43.11)
One or two of the words is mattering. I matter. There's the word mattering and the word belonging. Belonging is I belong to a group or I belong to a relationship, but mattering is bigger. I matter in terms of who I am right now. And that means being seen. So it's about being seen. And the fact is in certain stages of our life,
We're just seeing less. I have some really dear friends who live in New Harmony. They're older. David is 85. Vicki is 78, 79. They have mobility issues. They're both using walkers. They can't get out anymore. They were so social. And they would go places. Well, now they can't. So people have to come into them because it's just physically hard. So their ties are lessening.
And even though they're on the phone a lot, they're texting, but they just physically can't get out. So that happens with aging. that could, that definitely leads to more social isolation. And that's true for older adults when adult children leave or, and you have all these things in combination, or there's a death of someone.
So there has to be ways to keep people socially healthy. I would say that faith-based organizations are key for that. Yeah. Because you have to go to church or go to a ministry. Yeah, you can watch stuff and you can hear it, but it's also about interacting with others. Yeah.
That, think those things are important and we're going to start something Wes. In this community, we've been inspired by a group in Maine who in 2022 or 2023 started a program, a husband and wife couple called Community Plate. And it is, they are community potlucks.
speaker-0 (51:04.866)
I think the husband is a chef, he and his wife wanted to start this post-COVID, where they invited anyone from their community, anyone, to come to a potluck. And the thing about the potluck is you bring something. So everybody contributes. yeah, and contribute. And contribute. then it, and you might know some people, but most people you won't. It's a structured event where people eat.
because we connect over food. They maybe listen to a few things. And maybe then they also connect to other people because they like their rhubarb pie, right? So it's been such a successful thing. We're going to copy this here. And we're going to start a community potluck. We're going to use the honeymoon coffee shops.
as our venues, so there are different parts of the community to bring in people. And two weeks ago, I actually spoke on this topic on social isolation, loneliness to a group of older adults at West River nursing home. They were individuals who didn't live there, but they were, they all lived at home, but they, they come there once a month for a meal and to hear a topic. And I said to them, we're going to start community plate and
speaker-1 (52:07.534)
That's right.
speaker-0 (52:31.918)
every one of the 20 older adults who are easily in their 75 or older said, we'd love to come. We'd love to bring something, even if they got to bring a bag of apples, doesn't matter. But it's a way to connect with others. If you might find people interesting, there might be families, it doesn't really matter. But it's something that we're going to start here. One is
People like potlucks. You know, get to bring something that's special to you, but you also try some different things. And then you might connect over the food, but you also connect by meeting people.
speaker-1 (53:13.772)
It's great, it's the...
think there's something in the Catholic Church that's been happening for a while, but it's reached us now, reached this area and reached communities I'm connected to, where there's this call to move from maintenance to mission. And when you talk about these things, I think about this idea I had about, I think it's easy for a parish to put on like a
like a chicken dinner and get caught up in like the, if you're behind the scenes, get caught up in the like, how much chicken do we sell? How much money do we make? Who showed up to volunteer? All of this sort of like maintenance-based stuff. while you're focused on all this stuff, out in the cafeteria or the gymnasium is all these people who have communed. What I noticed at a recent one during Lent was that
the people could sit wherever they wanted to. And so naturally people pocketed with who they were familiar with. And I looked at and I thought, damn, what a missed opportunity. And the reason I thought that is because when I grew up and we did chicken dinners at Holy Cross up the road here in Fort Branch, you sat in the order that you were in in line. So after church, the line is out the door and you're coming in, you are seated. You're like put through an assembly line and you're seated.
with how you arrived in London. So every Sunday or know, every whatever, whenever they have these things, you are sitting across or beside people who you don't not know. Yeah, you might not know them very well. And you can only sit there for so long until you just start talking about whatever, you know. And I think that when I see, I say this just because I think that sharing a meal,
speaker-1 (55:15.79)
bringing people together, it's an old thing that still stands as such an important opportunity to cultivate humanity, cultivate humanness. So it's a beautiful, simple, awesome idea to bring to our area.
speaker-0 (55:32.076)
And that is exactly what you described when you grew up, the structure of how community plate works. That they are long tables. certainly if you come with someone else, you can sit with them, but you sit in the order that you come in. And so it will be random. You can certainly have a partner or a friend with you.
but you're not sitting in clumps. So it's not like a restaurant, right? You don't have a potluck at a restaurant. And that's all that is all messaged ahead of time. It's not a surprise to individuals. It's designed that way. And so there is a little bit of readiness training because people might be curious, but they're also, we're all a little apprehensive.
speaker-1 (56:20.268)
Designed
speaker-0 (56:32.204)
when it comes to meeting a stranger and having a meal next to the person. But it is a very structured event. these are tangible, small-scale things that I think individuals can do to create community. And having a potluck's a pretty easy thing. A little bit of logistics behind the scene, but that's okay.
speaker-1 (56:56.908)
What outside, we'll wrap it up here in a sec, what outside of the potluck, for example, do the men's groups in your life, I know you're part of different communities, or I say that's probably smaller groups of men, but as you've aged, and you've had mentors, how has being around other men
How does it impact your life? What does it do for your life? How does it... And I say this because I think that there is a lot of it missing for younger men.
speaker-0 (57:36.012)
Yeah, it's probably one of the single most important things that I have wanted to cultivate. in, I've never been one West to have a New Year's resolution, but in 2022,
I said early January 1st, I want to do two things. I want to, in that year, get better sleep, which I'm still working on, and cultivate relationships with male friends. And so that was an intentional thing to do.
So in order to do that, just, because I describe myself as having
If I'm being honest with you, and lots of acquaintances. I'm not sure if I've ever had a best friend before, like a best best friend. I know a lot of people do and they have maybe a few best friends and they say that. I like having a lot of acquaintances. Now, I'm not saying these are just people that I wave to in the street. mean, a lot of these people I know them pretty well and they know me well and
and some a lot better than others, but I'd rather have hundreds and thousands of queens that I do know face to face. And so, but many of them happen to be men and men, many of them my age, some a little bit older, some a little bit younger. And it's really been a healthy thing. The men that I am,
speaker-0 (59:29.816)
friends with who are my age happened to be in a few different groups. One is, and I just love saying this because it's a hundred percent true. I have possibly the greatest group of West Side Redneck friends. Anyone could, they're the nicest Rednecks you've ever met. The nicest Redneck. Now I will say quite honestly that they have welcomed me. They have welcomed me in
speaker-1 (59:59.651)
guys
speaker-0 (59:59.98)
At Bush Light? 100%. And now I do as well. But it's also, you know, when you go beyond the surface and, yeah, you know, of course we meet for drinks and stuff like that. And you get to know people in different ways. They get to know you. It can be a little bit more vulnerable. None of us have the complete answer to everything.
But everyone's gone through the same shit. We really are. And I also decided in maybe 2021, 22, I was on social media a little bit. I didn't do a lot of contributing. I was mainly scrolling. And I said, I'm going to just stop it because it was just taking too much of my time. The only thing I'm on right now is LinkedIn. Same. And that has really been healthy.
I know I miss certain things. doesn't bother. It used to bother me. It doesn't bother you as much anymore. Cause I eventually find out about it. Now it might be three weeks later. my God, I missed something. But it really has been pretty healthy. Healthy for me, know, emotionally healthy and everything. gives you a.
speaker-1 (01:01:24.514)
gives you a, or presents you with a challenge that if you are gonna connect with people, you gotta connect with them. There's no just like looking and being like, know what they're up to. You actually have to make contact.
speaker-0 (01:01:33.026)
You gotta
speaker-0 (01:01:37.326)
You have to make contact. So one of the greatest things is certainly, you know, being connected to you and a group of other of these guys who I don't think I would have ever been connected to. But, you know, we have this middle person, Zack Parsons, who knew a lot of us, and then it's sort of taken off from there. But it's a different group, which is wonderful. And
And again, we're all at different stages in our lives doing different things. But it's also just important for our social health, but also just to have different interesting people in our lives. I think the most important thing I'd say is when you have other people in your life,
and you're curious about them and what they're doing, you're not focused on yourself. And that I think is also pretty healthy. It's a pretty healthy. It's a really healthy thing. A great, you know, I am a relapsed and increasingly practicing Catholic, born and raised Catholic, went away from the church for a little while, have come back. And, you know,
It's a pretty simple faith. It's loving and connecting to others. Now, you've got to respect yourself, but it's not about focusing on yourself. So it's just more interesting when you're connecting to others.
speaker-1 (01:03:19.822)
I agree. know, it's having, having... In my early 20s, I always wanted mentors. I'd hear people talk about my mentor. I'm like, how the fuck do get a mentor? Sounds awesome to talk to Tony Robbins or have these men in your life who super inspiring. And coming back to town, coming back to Evansville in 2018, Zach Parsons was one of the first people that I sort of connected with on that level.
I worked at A-Zip. I was a training manager and I would work the lines sometimes. He would come through and we would just talk as I was making his pizza. And I'd go clean the dining room and I'd like cut it up for a second. I kind of knew who he was a little bit. But it's through the relationship with him and then leading into meeting all of you guys. And that's led into other relationships to where I was thinking about how
We hung out couple of weeks ago. We did a milk ritual and poured gallons of milk over another grown man who just had a baby. it's the first time I've publicly said that. But the conversation that happens around that campfire is, it's like everybody is being honest. Everybody is curious.
Everybody is along for the ride of wherever the hell it leads. And for me as a 32 year old to connect with men in their 40s, 50s, to know that first of all, like you said, we're all dealing with shit, the same shit, a lot of it, just in different ways. But also too, to know that like, this is what life is. Life is a process. I will one day be in my 40s, 50s, 60s, hopefully.
Having you guys in my life and then even connecting with some younger people Gives this sort of through line that like it makes death less scary. Yeah, it makes growing older less scary and it gives like a sense of context and perspective that is beyond just the self and it reduces anxiety it reduces that sort of just existential in this because it's like This is what we've always done and this is what we're still just doing going through the process
speaker-1 (01:05:46.214)
of life and death, but it's much more than that. But essentially that connection sort of fosters like a relief or a communion with just life itself.
speaker-0 (01:05:57.894)
Yeah, no, that's well said. mean, I'll be honest with I've never done a podcast before and been on a podcast. And so if it wasn't for you, and I know this is your part of your space, you know, that's really great. So, and it's not just about sharing my interests and stuff. It's also the opportunity to connect. So I think that's the benefit. It is hard for others, you know, they're not
in a, they don't have an opportunity to connect. I'm fortunate I'm able to do that. I'm fortunate that I have the ability to, know, not to be able to do that. Not everyone does. You know, if they're working two or three jobs and they're trying to just figure out the day-to-day stuff or getting behind, that's more important.
So I think this is, but everyone has an opportunity to connect at some level.
speaker-1 (01:07:05.358)
You know, I wanted to say thank you for when we were at Zaks, you said, I just gotta put a flag in this, whatever the hell he said. Tad, thank you for taking a chance on the youngest member of us here and Foster and this blah blah blah. But I was thinking about how...
Giving recognition is a giving sort of just that, I guess it's recognition, validation. There's something that you gave in that moment in the context of other men that didn't make me cocky or like, yeah. It made me think like, thank you. was very, that feels like that's what people have done forever is honor the next generation of people and honor those who take.
chances on the next and foster the next generation and I wanted to say thank you for honoring that moment.
speaker-0 (01:08:06.766)
I think I also said to you don't screw it up. Because that comes with it too. it's a... yeah, absolutely brother. This was great. Cool, thank you.
speaker-1 (01:08:15.421)
Thank you.