Hidden Money Podcast | Get Tax Strategies Like Microsoft

On this week's episode: most people assume Microsoft's 2.44% tax rate means the game is rigged for billionaires, and never ask what the tax code has already built in for anyone willing to invest the same way.

What the tax code already rewards:
1. Corporations pay a flat 21% tax rate — that's the rule. Microsoft backed into 2.44%, which means roughly $85 billion of its $101 billion in profit was offset by deductions and credits written directly into the tax code, available to any business that invests the way Microsoft does.
2. Buy $100,000 of office equipment and you write it off a little at a time over several years. Put that same $100,000 into qualifying AI data center property — or a rental property using the same bonus depreciation rules — and it's largely 100% deductible this year, against income you're already earning.
3. R&D tax credits aren't a deduction that lowers your taxable income — they're a dollar-for-dollar reduction of the tax you actually owe. Every dollar of W-2 wages paid to build genuinely new technology counts the same way for a five-person business as it does for Microsoft.
4. Most taxpayers don't lose out because the tax code is stacked against them — they lose out because they have a tax preparer instead of a tax strategist. The fix isn't a bigger tax bill, it's proactive planning before the year closes: we have clients landing at 0% and 2% effective tax rates using this exact playbook.

Get in touch: https://www.revotaxpayer.com/?utm_source=revo-taxpayer&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=s4e30-get-tax-strategies-like-microsoft&utm_content=show-notes#contact-1

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Chapters
[00:00] Why "the rich don't pay their fair share" misses the real story
[01:11] Microsoft reported $101B in profits and paid 2.44% in tax
[02:46] The math: backing into $85B in deductions
[03:19] These aren't loopholes — they're intentional tax incentives
[03:39] Inside the strategy: AI data centers and 100% deductible property
[05:12] R&D tax credits: a dollar-for-dollar reduction, not just a deduction
[06:54] You don't have to be a corporation to use this playbook
[10:01] Real clients getting to 0% tax — and how
[11:01] A retired client's capital gains deferral through a rural opportunity zone
[12:53] Tax preparer vs. tax strategist — the gap that costs people millions
[13:44] These opportunities exist for every taxpayer, not just billionaires

Creators and Guests

Host

Kevin Schneider

CPA and Managing Partner at Revo Taxpayer Advocacy

Host

Mike Pine

CPA and Founding Partner at Revo Taxpayer Advocacy

What is Hidden Money Podcast?

In the Hidden Money podcast, you'll learn how you can legally use the tax code to your financial advantage. There’s wealth inside the tax code. Taxes aren’t the enemy.
Most people hate taxes (and pay more than they should). But when you view taxes only as an evil expense, you miss out on legal ways to grow your wealth. Unlock the secrets to saving tax and building wealth with the Hidden Money Podcast! 🎧💰 Hosted by Mike Pine and Kevin Schneider.

Mike Pine: Microsoft, this is for
their tax year 2025, they reported

$101 billion in profits for the year.

$101 billion!

But they only paid 2.44%

in tax.

This is not new.

Go look at Apple, go look at Tesla,
go look at all the big companies.

It's not new.

The same exact tax law that they're
using is there for your picking as

well, for my picking, for your picking.

Kevin Schneider: Do you know how much 2.4%

of 101 is?

It's still $2.4

billion.

Mike Pine: Welcome

to this week's episode of
the Hidden Money Podcast.

You know,

I hear

over and over

again,

the rich don't pay their

fair share.

We had that

whole WikiLeaks thing or
ProPublica leak lastâ¦

Sorry, not the

WikiLeaks, the ProPublica leak, um,
back around 2018, '19, that showed

the top 2,000 richest people and
companies in the, in the United States

and their tax

returns.

And everyone saw that the

richest people, the, multi,
multi-millionaires, the,

the the billionaires,

â¦â¦were paying very little to

no tax.

So then it's always explained
this way, n- besides

that they're not paying their fair share,

which

won't go there.

It's, I always hear it told this way.

They can

do it because they're the

only ones that can afford to pay millions

and

tens of millions of dollars

every

year

to hire tax

attorneys and CPAs to figure out
ways around it, and to reduce

their taxes.

But in reality, what they're doing

is they're

following the tax

incentives

that exist.

They're not finding loopholes.

They're

using

the

incentives

that we

want

them to use, or at least our Congress

wants them

to use, and generally they're
good for our society and our

nation-

um,

that give

them

tax deductions or

tax credits.

have an article here that came out

recently and

I, I wanted to share this,

but if you could pull up our
article This article, when I saw

this

I said, "Man, we got to talk about this."

'Cause look,

Microsoft, this is for their tax

year 2025, they reported

$101 billion

profits for the year.

$101 billion,

but

they

only

paid

2.44%

tax.

This is

not new.

Go look at

Apple.

Go look at Tesla.

Go look at all the

big

companies.

It's not new.

Yes, they have a lot

of tax attorneys and

CPAs working for them as

employees, working

for them as counsels outside of their

firm.

But the same

exact

tax

law

that they're

using

is there for

your

picking as

well, for my picking, for your

picking, Kevin.

And heck, we're doing

it right now.

We just

did it with

our

building purchase.

Kevin Schneider: Do you know how much 2.4%

of 101 is?

It's still $2.4

billion.

That's what I'm talking about.

They still paid billions of dollars
in tax, but if you just take a look at

a percentage

level,

it's, like, people get
upset about that number.

"2.4%?

I'm paying

30%."

Well, their numbers are still bigger, but

at the same time, they're deploying
strategies that you aren't, and

Mike Pine: they're-

Wait a

second.

Corporations have a flat tax of

21%,

so they're paying

21%

tax.

if we back into

that, they pay two and a half
million, that means they only showed

about $15 billion in taxable income.

I'm doing the

math in my head.

that's the

case,

but they had 101 million in actual audited

financial profits,

that means they had to

spend

or come

up with credits for

$85

billion of deductions.

Kevin Schneider: deductions.

Mm-hmm.

Mike Pine: Where did that money likely

go?

It's,

they didn't disclose it
all as this article points

out, but

we're done with the

Kevin Schneider: article.

No, the, yeah, the article was
actually going towards things we

tell our

clients to do also.

mean, it's, this isn't, we're taking

strategies

that

the big corporations at that

level, you can do them, too.

It's not some secret sauce.

And I like how you mentioned

they're not

doing loopholes.

don't do

loopholes either.

A, what a, a loophole

is, it's

an intended

tax

law that's put

into place,

but there's some

nuance that you found to

get around it that wasn't intended

in the

tax code.

These are legit deductions

taken, And we do the

same.

So in

this,

what this

article

was referencing was

two

things.

One, Microsoft is developing all these

data centers.

So what does an AI

data center entail?

And it entails a shell,

a building,

it, and a

lot of ventilation,

servers,

um, qualified

improvement property,
tangible personal property.

Guess what?

All of that is

deductible.

All of that is 100%

deductible under, except for
the shell and the roof â¦and

some

components.

But

Mike Pine: the shell and

the

roof, now I just got to throw

out

there,

sorry, Kevin,

Kevin Schneider: I

know we got a lot of- You

Mike Pine: to get through across.

No, it's okay But the one big Beautiful

Bill Act created

domestic qualified

production act, um,

facilities or property,

qualified

Kevin Schneider: production property,
If they're producing manufa- if they're

Mike Pine: manufacturer.

Um, and, and a lot of these shells qualify
for it, even the AI centers, â¦because

they're manufacturing

Some type

Kevin Schneider: product Interesting.

We talked about that.

Interesting take.

Mike Pine: take.

I think it's gonna win, actually.

All right.

Kevin Schneider: it's gonna win actually.

Okay.

it's

going of course.

But let me, let

me finish this part.

So all of that

deduction is reducing their
profits, whether they raise

capital from the investors,
whether they took debt out on it.

It doesn't matter.

It's the cost of the property

they put in service.

So all that investment

that they're doing, and
we talk about this all

the time,

invest your money in your

business, that's

gonna grow your profits, but at the same

time, it's gonna reduce
your taxable income.

you're, you're killing
two birds with one stone.

I'm investing in this new
product that's gonna generate

me revenue, and I'm not gonnaâ¦

I'm gonna get tax

breaks on it at the

same time.

And

so that's one thing

they

they cited in the article, and they,
they didn't go into the details

because we don't have their tax

returns.

The second thing out-

outside

of the AI data center is gonna be like R&D

tax credits.

R&D is written

all over Microsoft â¦and

these tech companies,

is because what they're

doing is they're literally

researching and developing new technology,

and that is gonna produce
an actual credit to their

taxes, and that's a dollar for
dollar credit, not a deduction.

But R&D, if you have

domestic salary, W2,

mainly

W2 is gonna provide the best
benefit on the R&D side.

But if you are paying software
engineers, you're paying

these developers to create AI

product, to create new things that
aren't in the marketplace, and

AI is

100% new,

um, in the past several years.

So everything anyone's doing
in the AI space should be

considered R&D.

So that's another tax tip for anyone
out there, 'cause most of you trade or

business, small business owners, y'all
are probably investing some money, we are

too, into AI development and
technology to systemize processes,

â¦ data-

Do we?

â¦â¦compiling and all

that- Interesting for us â¦marketing,

all these things.

We are utilizing

AI so much now, and all of this

is R&D.

Some of the stuff we're, we're
working on internally may

not work.

There's a degree

Mike Pine: of fail.

You saying I have bad

Kevin Schneider: ideas.

No They're just

Mike Pine: not perfect.

They

Kevin Schneider: don't always work out.

They don't always work out.

And that's okay.

That's-

you know, that's

why

the R&D

credit's there.

It's gonna subsidize some of our

risk.

But those are just some
things Microsoft's doing, and

you can take those

things.

I don't need you to go
build an AI data center

Mike Pine: but Do you
have to be a corporation?

No.

Kevin Schneider: be a corporation?

No.

Hmm.

You could still just

buy

a, a

tangible

property, a rental property

for instance, and use the same tax
law they're using, not the exact

same if we're going manufacturing.

That's a

little in the weeds but let's say you buy

a a

a residential property.

The same bonus depreciation Microsoft's
taking is available for you, and you could

buy an appreciating asset, take a bonus
depreciation on it, reducing your taxable

income, getting your effective tax rate
in the two percents too, which we see all

the time.

have millionaires as clients who are

paying

very

little

in taxes, and

that's our

Mike Pine: job.

So these

aren't loopholes and, and Kevin and I are

passionate

about that.

These aren't loopholes.

It's not that they're not

Kevin Schneider: paying their fair share

Mike Pine: share.

No, we're cheating.

They're puttingâ¦

in, in a lot of cases, if you're not

cheating, and don't get me

wrong, there's some loopholes that
you should take because we need to be

good stewards of

our money, and if a

loophole exists, then use

it.

But

that's not what Microsoft's

doing here

or did there.

That's not

what we are talking about when we say tax

incentives

Tax

incentives with Microsoft.

So they

spent,

again, the

R&D tax credit says

you get, for

qualified wages, you get
100% of people you pay in W-2

employees, but if they're
US-based contractors, you get

to take 50% of what you pay them
towards the, the calculations.

It's a complex calculation.

is providing jobs and
growth in our economy.

is Microsoft a villain for not paying more

tax?

I always gotta bring this

up, actually usually bring

this up.

Um, there was aâ¦

one of the debates in

2016, presidential debate,
they pointed outâ¦

Or was

it 2020?

One of those

debates,

how

little Trump was

Kevin Schneider: paying in tax.

Hillary was

trying to pin it, so it would have been

Mike Pine: trying to pin
it so it must have been

Kevin Schneider: right?

16,

' Mike Pine: 16,

yeah.

what was

his answer?

He's

like, "'Cause

I'm smart."

'Cause

he's

following the incentives,
and quite honestly,

providing

employment.

Going bankrupt a few times, but

providing employment.

Um,

and growing the real

estate market

that many people

that aren't him right now are enjoying

the

Kevin Schneider: of.

So-

It was supposed to be this huge gotcha

moment

from Hillary saying, "You

don't even pay your taxes."

And

" Mike Pine: Duh."

I'd like to

see her tax return.

Duh.

Kevin Schneider: I'd
like to see her taxes.

Duh.

It's like he's smart.

he's u- leveraging the tax code,

and now he does pay millions of

dollars to tax attorneys, CPAs, financial

people to

har- to rein in his position, and we
don't need millions of dollars to rein in

your situation 'cause
you're not a Donald Trump.

Uh,

if Donald Trump's listening to this,

y- you

probably, you could use us,
but, um, you probably need more

Mike Pine: than just Mike and I, right?

So- Yeah, We can't

we can't handle

Kevin Schneider: need-

Appreciate you â¦ â¦â¦we

like just

normal,

everyday hardworking people who work hard

for their money,

and they

make good

money.

They just need help

on the tax

side, and we know and aware of these

strategies that Donald Trump's
implementing, even Hillary's implementing,

even though she won't probably

say it.

Microsoft,

all

these corporations are utilizing, we
understand what they're doing, and we can

apply them to you, so you could be in that
statistic of making a lot of money and not

paying your, not

paying a lot of tax.

Mike Pine: Yeah.

It can be done, It, it can be done,

and it's available to all of us, and it's

not fair that people keep

hearing and

having

hammered into them, This is only

available to the very rich.

This is only available to the billionaires
and the multinational corporations."

Talk to some

of our clients,

our normal, hardworking

people, small business
owners, and high, high income

earners

who keep our

economy going, the real
people keeping this,

this country running,

they

can get the

2%.

Sometimes

Kevin Schneider: get 0%.

I have many clients

in 0%.

I'm working on a deal right now,

it actually went out today
at this, the date of this

recording, but

he's saving

taxes for the first year,

100%

of them.

He's

paying zero tax this

year.

and we were to

structure

this deal so

right that we eliminated all of his income

this year, and then he
has about a $300,000

carry forward

into next year.

So all, he's

starting 2027 off

in the whole

Mike Pine: 300

grand, so I- was like,

Kevin Schneider: "Not only are

Mike Pine: the hole

Kevin Schneider: taxes- In the
tax hole â¦ in the tax hole

and then now you can

make 300 grand next year and
not pay a dollar of tax next

year, too."

Normal guy.

Yeah.

Just seriously, like

w- he could be your

Mike Pine: neighbor.

I- It's just, it's

not- I was talking just
before we came here,

had a consult with one of
our first clients, came with

the original practice we

bought.

You would know

him, but I'm not gonna
put his name on here now.

He's retired.

He has

decent

means.

I mean, a couple million bucks in their
estate worth in property and other things.

Um,

he's

contributing some

property,

getting partial sale, but
contributing some property

into this new syndication that

qualifies as a rural

opportunity zone.

Kevin Schneider: Hmm.

Mike Pine: He's

got money locked

away in, uh, in, in his retirement

accounts that he would like

to diversify into

different investments.

but if he sells them, he's gotta recognize

capital gains.

He didn't

know this.

I said, Look, you wanna move some

of that

money, you're doing this anyways.

sounds like a

good idea.

We need to vet it

a little bit more, but sounds like

a good

idea.

uh,

and a

great opportunity 'cause you're gonna
get a b- a good cash flow out of this

investment too."

Now, in this,

his case, he can sell up to

two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars of his stock

and defer tax, not

pay any tax for five years,
and then in five years only

recognize seventy percent of it.

Get a permanent

thirty percent deferral.

And he knew this part,
if he holds onto that for

ten years and then sells it,
it's gone up in value, it's

all related to real estate, um,

and operations, too.

it's

a hundred percent tax free.

This guy is

living

and,

receiving Social Security

and modest

pension income.

He's not a

multi-multi-billionaire

or millionaire.

He's got two million, but
most of it's not liquid.

He enjoys the same benefits the

billionaires do, and the difference

is he's got a tax strategist in his back

pocket, unlike most people
at that level of income who

Kevin Schneider: have

tax

preparers.

Preparers, and they're used to the
same old relationship with their

CPA,

which it's hard for

them to pull out of it because they're
like, "I've had the same CPA for 30 years.

I love him.

I love her."

Um, then

you look at the quality of work,
and, and then you kind of have

to be this bearer of bad news.

Like, you love him, but you've
been tremendously underserved.

Tremendously

underserved.

And

Mike Pine: we're

talking millions of dollars left

on the table It's not
just the CPA's fault.

And, and, and

to be honest,

this client, he

was a financial planner, um,

did a lot of other things
too, but a financial advisor,

um,

a retired

one now.

He'd been conditioned, look, you save

money by putting it

into your retirement

accounts.

That's

how you save your taxes,

Kevin Schneider: and then when you retire,

Mike Pine: you're

just going to pay the taxes.

No, he doesn't,

and it was fun to have that conversation.

but the

point is, these opportunities

exist for you

They

exist

for your neighbor across the street.

They exist for

everyone

who pays

taxes.

Now, only half the country pays taxes,

but if you pay tax, they're
available to You and you don't

have to pay millions of dollars

find out about them and to

utilize them.

You just

need to learn about them.

So that's

Kevin Schneider: why we are here

Mike Pine: at The Hidden Money

Podcast.

Please like it, subscribe it,

share it, spread the news.

Billions of dollars of tax

savings

are available

to you,

Kevin Schneider: not

Mike Pine: the rich Microsoft companies.

Thank you for listening to this episode.

Revo Taxpayer Advocacy LLC is not licensed
or registered as a CPA firm with the

Texas State Board of Public Accountancy.

I'm a CPA, Kevin's a CPA.

We have a lot of CPAs on staff that are
licensed and held to the same standards.

However, when we decided to be
revolutionary and change our name to Revo

Taxpayer Advocacy, the state board would
not allow that and let us remain licensed.

They say we have to have one
of our names in the firm for

us to be licensed as a firm.

And guess what?

It's not us that's important.

It's revolutionizing the way you feel
about taxes and saving you money.

We are advocates for you, so we were
willing to drop our firm license even

though we're still individually licensed.