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In this podcast hosted by the trailblazing founder of RE/MAX, Dave Liniger, we discover the secrets of those who have overcome challenges, pushed past their own limits, and experienced the best life has to offer.
00:00:00:09 - 00:00:05:02
Unknown
You.
00:00:05:04 - 00:00:08:17
Unknown
You.
00:02:39:05 - 00:02:41:12
Speaker 1
So Kim, welcome to our program.
00:02:41:14 - 00:02:43:18
Speaker 2
Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.
00:02:44:00 - 00:02:55:08
Speaker 1
This is fun. How do you define ambition in the context of the workplace, and how can leaders encourage and harness ambitious goals within their teams?
00:02:55:09 - 00:03:21:17
Speaker 2
In radical candor, I recommend that we rethink ambition because there are a lot of different ways to be ambitious. And, and I think I think that one of the mistakes that a lot of people make in their careers is that they think ambition has to always mean you are growing really fast, that you're up and to the right.
00:03:21:19 - 00:03:47:18
Speaker 2
But there are times in everyone's career where they're not they're not putting all their energy into taking the next step on, the next rung on the corporate ladder, but rather they're, they're using their ambitions for some other, more personal goal. They're still doing a great job at work, but maybe they are spending some time becoming a great writer or a great painter.
00:03:47:18 - 00:04:11:17
Speaker 2
Or maybe they're are caring for a sick parent, and that's where they're putting their extra energy. So one of the things that I talk about in Radical Candor is making sure that you understand the difference between superstar mode and rock star mode, and that you honor yourself when you're in superstar mode, which is what is more traditionally thought of is as ambition growing really fast.
00:04:11:19 - 00:04:38:11
Speaker 2
But you also want to honor yourself and others when they're in rock star mode. And what I mean by rock star mode is when they're solid as a rock, when they're they're not going to, you know, you're not necessarily gunning for the next big job, but you're still doing a great job. And I think it's really important to have both, both growth and stability over the course of a career and also a balance of growth and stability on a team.
00:04:38:13 - 00:04:53:10
Speaker 1
I totally agree. in your book Radical Candor, you emphasized honest and direct communication. How does radical candor, relate to cultivating growth and ambition in individuals and teams?
00:04:53:12 - 00:05:17:08
Speaker 2
So one of the things that I recommend that managers do is to have career conversations with each person on their team so that they understand what growth mode each person is in and in those career conversations. I recommend that people and if someone's not doing this for you, you can ask. You can ask, a friend to do it.
00:05:17:09 - 00:05:38:18
Speaker 2
But in the career conversations, what I recommend that managers do for employees is they they ask them about their past, you know, starting with kindergarten. Tell me about your life and as the person is and by the way, if the person rather start in grad school, that's fine too. Some people would rather poke a sharp stick in their eye than tell their boss about their childhood.
00:05:38:20 - 00:06:14:02
Speaker 2
That's okay. so you want to you want to make sure that you are understanding the changes that a person made in the course of their career and the course of their life and and understanding from those changes. What motivates a person at work, what a person values at work. And, and that will help you make sure that you're, you're putting them on the right kinds of, of of tasks, the right kinds of projects that you're pushing them in the direction they, they that, that they really care about.
00:06:14:04 - 00:06:34:18
Speaker 2
And then you also want to talk about their future and you want to say, you know, imagine a future in which you have achieved your ambitions, you've achieved your goals. What does it look like? What does it feel like and encourage people to share? You know, sort of 3 or 5 different kind of dreams of the future where they've really achieved their ambitions.
00:06:34:18 - 00:07:06:02
Speaker 2
Because the truth is that almost none of us know what we really want to do when we grow up. And those who do confuse the heck out of the rest of us. So you want to you want to sort of understand where a person wants to go and understand what mode they're in right now. Do they? Do they want to put their all their extra energy on getting that next job, or do they want to put a lot of their extra energy onto something that's outside of work, and you want to make sure that you understand the difference?
00:07:06:02 - 00:07:31:04
Speaker 2
Because if somebody is in superstar mode, you want to promote them. But if someone is in rock star mode, they don't have an ambition to be promoted right now, but they still want to be honored and respected. And so I think that's one thing that's really important. The other thing that is really important about radical candor is you want to challenge people directly, you want to push them, but at the same time, you want to show them that you care about them.
00:07:31:04 - 00:07:39:11
Speaker 2
You you don't want to push them in a way that feels obnoxious to them. And that's what radical candor is, sort of caring and challenging at the same time.
00:07:39:13 - 00:07:53:17
Speaker 1
Oh, Kim, as a leadership expert, how can leaders foster grit in their team? And what role does a leader's own ambition play in inspiring and motivating others?
00:07:53:19 - 00:08:21:00
Speaker 2
So I, I really think that it is important to help adopt a growth mindset on your team. And by growth mindset, what I mean is you don't want to sort of have if let's take math, if you're teaching people math, and they, they make a mistake on a problem, you don't want to say you're bad at math, you want to you want to push them to, get inspired to get better in math.
00:08:21:02 - 00:08:36:16
Speaker 2
And if they get the problem right, you don't want to say you're good in math, so you don't want to have fixed. You don't want to talk about fixed attribute. Do you want to talk about how you're growing? You know. Oh, I'm so sorry. That problem is too easy for you. Let's give you one that's that's going to challenge you.
00:08:36:18 - 00:09:05:16
Speaker 2
And and I think that is is really important to making sure that that people feel like when you are giving them both praise and criticism, you're not judging fundamental personality attributes, but rather you're using sort of context observation result. Next step in the meeting when you said, that's the context is in the meeting when you said, every third word, that's the observation.
00:09:05:18 - 00:09:29:14
Speaker 2
And it made you, you, you lost credibility. that's the result. Let's, engage a speech coach so you learn how not to do that. So that's an example of using the core method for criticism. But you also need to use it for praise. And radical candor is even more about praise. And it's about criticism. So in the meeting that's the context.
00:09:29:16 - 00:09:53:15
Speaker 2
Observation is when you argued both sides of the argument, the result, you earned credibility. Next step is do more of that. So so I think it's really important that you're focusing on behaviors that can be changed and improved. the purpose of praise is to show people what to do more of. The purpose of criticism is to show them what to do less of.
00:09:53:17 - 00:10:06:03
Speaker 2
And you want you want to make sure that you are pushing people to, to do more of what's good and less of what's bad. and that's sort of part of radical candor.
00:10:06:05 - 00:10:18:01
Speaker 1
So radical candor was a smashing success for you. And, you have a follow up? yes. Radical respect coming. Yes. How does that come out?
00:10:18:06 - 00:10:19:08
Speaker 2
May 7th.
00:10:19:10 - 00:10:21:05
Speaker 1
May 7th. Congratulations.
00:10:21:06 - 00:10:22:05
Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:10:22:07 - 00:10:25:10
Speaker 1
Tell me the difference of the two books.
00:10:25:12 - 00:10:51:04
Speaker 2
So Radical Respect is sort of the prequel to Radical Candor, because if Radical Candor is about caring personally and challenging directly at the same time, if you don't respect someone, then you're not going to care about them or challenge them. You're not going to take the time. And I decided, you know, if you write a book about feedback, which radical candor very much was, then you're going to get a lot of it.
00:10:51:04 - 00:11:02:03
Speaker 2
And indeed, I did. And, and some of the best feedback that I got about radical candor is what prompted me to write radical respect. You want to hear. You want to hear the story?
00:11:02:08 - 00:11:03:01
Speaker 1
Sure.
00:11:03:03 - 00:11:27:18
Speaker 2
So I was at a tech company in San Francisco, and I was giving a radical candor talk. And the CEO of that company had been a colleague of mine for the better part of a decade, person I like and respect enormously, and one of two few black women CEOs in tech or in any other sector. And when I finished giving the radical candor talk, she pulled me aside and she said, Kim, I'm excited to roll out radical candor.
00:11:27:18 - 00:11:44:07
Speaker 2
I think it's going to help me build the kind of culture I want. But I got to tell you, it's much harder for me to roll it out than it is for you. And she went on to explain to me that as a black woman, as soon as she would offer even the most compassionate, gentle criticism, people would call her an angry black woman.
00:11:44:09 - 00:12:03:06
Speaker 2
And I knew this was true. As soon as she said it. And I felt I sort of it made me have four realizations at the same time. The first realization I had was that I had not been the kind of colleague that I imagined myself to be, that I want to be. I had failed even to notice the extent to which she had to show up.
00:12:03:06 - 00:12:25:05
Speaker 2
Unfailingly cheerful and pleasant in every meeting we were ever in together. Even though she had what to be ticked off about at work, as we all do from time to time. And I had just I had not been an upstander. I'd been sort of a silent bystander or an oblivious bystander, because it hadn't occurred to me the toll that must take on her.
00:12:25:07 - 00:12:51:12
Speaker 2
So that was revelation number one. The second thing that I realized was that not only had I been in denial about the kinds of things that were happening to her as a black woman in the workplace, I had also been in denial about the kinds of things that were happening to me as a white woman in the workplace, kind of hard for the author of a book called Radical Candor to admit that I'd been pretending that a whole host of things were not happening to me, that were, in fact, happening to me.
00:12:51:13 - 00:13:17:03
Speaker 2
And I think I had been in denial because I never wanted to think of myself as a victim. But even less than wanting to think of myself as a victim, that I want to think of myself as the culprit. And so the third thing that I realized was that I had been most deeply in denial about the times when I was the person had who had been disrespectful to my colleagues, when I was the person who had caused harm.
00:13:17:03 - 00:13:45:19
Speaker 2
And because I was in denial about it, I couldn't acknowledge what I did wrong or change it or make amends. and then the fourth thing I realized was that I always saw myself as this leader who was creating bias free zones where everybody could do the best work of their life and enjoy working together. But by ignoring these kinds of disrespectful attitudes and behaviors, I was unable to prevent them from happening and therefore not creating the ideal team that I wanted to create.
00:13:45:19 - 00:13:55:02
Speaker 2
So that was a big drink of water. but it was it was really helpful because it, it prompted me to sit down and write Radical Respect, which I'm so excited about.
00:13:55:04 - 00:14:15:03
Speaker 1
Well, I'll look forward to reading that. Ken providing constructive feedback is crucial for personal professional growth. How can leaders offer feedback that supports individuals? and helps them pursue their ambitious, objectives?
00:14:15:05 - 00:14:22:22
Speaker 2
I'll tell you a story about a time that I failed to do that, and then I'll talk about, you know, what we can do to do better. How about that?
00:14:23:00 - 00:14:23:21
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:14:23:23 - 00:14:48:10
Speaker 2
So I one point in my career, I had just hired this guy. We'll call him Bob. And I liked Bob a lot. He was smart. He was charming. He was funny. He would do stuff like, we were at, a manager offsite playing one of those endless get to know you games. And Bob was a guy who had the courage to raise his hand and to say, you know, I can tell everybody is really stressed out.
00:14:48:10 - 00:15:17:15
Speaker 2
I've got an idea, and it'll be really fast and it'll help us get to know each other. Whatever his idea was, if it was fast, we were down with it. So Bob says, let's just go around the table and confess what candy our parents used when potty training us. Really weird, but really fast. We're there yet for the next ten months, every time there was a tense moment in a meeting, Bob would pull out just the right piece of candy for the right person at the right moment.
00:15:17:21 - 00:15:46:07
Speaker 2
So Bob. Bob brought a little levity to the office. He was kind of quirky, but everybody loved Bob. One problem with Bob, he was doing terrible work, so puzzled. I couldn't understand what was going on because he had this incredible resumé, this great history of accomplishments. I learned much later that the problem was that Bob was smoking pot in the bathroom three times a day, which maybe explained all that candy that he had at all times.
00:15:46:12 - 00:16:04:08
Speaker 2
But I didn't know any of that at the time. All I knew was that Bob was handing work in to me, and there was shame in his eyes, and I would say something to him along the lines of, oh, Bob, you're so awesome. You're so smart. We all love working with you. Maybe you can make it just a little bit better, but you know which, of course he never did.
00:16:04:10 - 00:16:40:05
Speaker 2
So let's pause for a moment. Why did I fail to give Bob the kind of feedback that he needed? I think part of it was what I call in radical candor, ruinous empathy. I really did care about Bob. I liked him, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings. But if I'm honest with myself, there was something a little bit more insidious going on there, because Bob was popular and Bob was sensitive, and part of me was afraid that if I told Bob in no uncertain terms that his work wasn't nearly good enough, he would get upset.
00:16:40:05 - 00:16:58:12
Speaker 2
He might even start to cry. And then everybody would think I was a big you know what? So there was a part of me that was not worried so much about Bob's feelings. That's the ruin his empathy part. But there was part of me that was worried about my reputation as a leader. And that is what I call in radical candor, manipulative insincerity.
00:16:58:12 - 00:17:29:03
Speaker 2
That's what happens when you neither care nor challenge. And this went on for about ten months, and eventually the inevitable happened. And I realized that if I didn't fire Bob, I was going to lose all my best performers, because not only had I been unfair to Bob not to tell him so that and to give him time to correct, but I've been unfair to the whole team because everybody's deliverables were late.
00:17:29:03 - 00:17:55:23
Speaker 2
When Bob's deliverables were late, other people on the team were not able to do their best work because they weren't able to spend as much time as they needed on their work, because they were having to spend all their time redoing Bob's work. And the people who are best at the job were going to quit. They were going to go someplace where they could do their best work and so when I realized this, I sat down and started a conversation with Bob that I should have started, frankly, ten months previously.
00:17:56:01 - 00:18:18:00
Speaker 2
And when I I finished explaining to Bob where things stood, he kind of pushed his chair back from the table. He looked me right in the eye and he said, why didn't you tell me? And as that question was going around in my head with no good answer, he looked at me again and he said, why didn't anyone tell me?
00:18:18:00 - 00:18:37:05
Speaker 2
I thought you all cared about me. And now I realized that by not telling Bob, thinking I was being so nice, I'm having to fire Bob as a result. Not so nice after all. And but it was too late to save Bob, and even Bob at this point agreed he should go. His reputation on the team was just shot.
00:18:37:07 - 00:19:03:02
Speaker 2
All I could do was make myself very solemn. Promise that I would never make that mistake again. And. And that's really why I wrote Radical Candor. Because, you know, I'm not alone in making that mistake. That is the most common mistake that managers make, with, with their employees. So happy to talk about tactics that you can put into place so you don't make the same mistake or sell your listeners stone.
00:19:03:04 - 00:19:04:20
Speaker 1
Well, go ahead and give us a couple.
00:19:04:22 - 00:19:31:06
Speaker 2
All right. So I think there is an order of operations to radical candor. You want to start by soliciting feedback. You want to get it before you give it. Don't dish it out before you prove you can take it. And then you want to give it. And remember, radical canards about praise. Even more than criticism, the purpose of the goal of of being a leader is to paint a picture of what's possible.
00:19:31:06 - 00:19:52:23
Speaker 2
And praise is more important than criticism. And then last but not least, you want to gauge how it lands for the other person. You want to be an authentic leader, which means saying what you really think, but being authentic does not mean ignoring the impact you're having on others. So. So if the person is sad or mad, you want to move up on the care personally dimension.
00:19:52:23 - 00:20:06:19
Speaker 2
And if the person is just brushing you off, you want to move out further on. on the challenge directly dimension of radical candor. So those are, you know, how to solicit feedback and we can talk more about each of those. But get it, give it, gauge it.
00:20:06:21 - 00:20:25:14
Speaker 1
Okay. an interesting question. With the rise of remote work, how can leaders foster ambition and grit in virtual teams? And are there unique considerations for cultivating those qualities in a distributed work setting?
00:20:25:16 - 00:21:04:23
Speaker 2
Yes, I think, you know, the the book Grit by Angela Duckworth offers so many excellent tactics on how to foster or that kind of of culture. But I think when you're working remotely, there are a few tactics that I recommend. in addition to reading your book, The Perfect Ten and Angela Duckworth's book grit, one is instead of having sort of weekly one on ones for an hour with each of your direct reports, I recommend having shorter, more frequent check ins.
00:21:04:23 - 00:21:26:00
Speaker 2
So have three 15 minute, one on ones, because a lot happens in the course of a week. And when you're in person, you kind of walk by someone and you get you get the texture of what's going on in their life. But when you're working remotely, you often lose that texture. So try to talk to people more often.
00:21:26:02 - 00:22:03:03
Speaker 2
I also, I also would recommend that you make all your. One of the problems with remote work is that we tend to schedule back to back to back, because we don't have to schedule time to walk or drive from meeting to meeting. Don't do that. Leave some slack time in your schedule so that if you notice somebody doing something in a meeting that that either merits some praise or some criticism that merit some form of radical candor, you can text them at the end of the meeting and then say, can we talk on the phone and then pick up the phone and call the person?
00:22:03:05 - 00:22:29:04
Speaker 2
And the best radical candor I've ever gotten in my career has always happened in these impromptu two minute conversations, and it turns out that, it might it might seem like it's easier to do it in person, but it turns out there's there's new research coming out of University of Chicago show that indicates the phone may be a better medium for these conversations, even than being in person.
00:22:29:04 - 00:22:59:01
Speaker 2
And it's almost certainly a better medium than a video call because they're there. We often misinterpret people's facial expressions, people's body language, and if we just listen to the words that they're saying, we might communicate better. But it's really important that this conversation, these two minute impromptu radical candor conversations that you have, which is what is gonna, hook into your employees intrinsic motivation to do better.
00:22:59:03 - 00:23:30:10
Speaker 2
It's really important that that these are two way communications, that they are actual conversations, that you don't send a text, you don't send an email. Slack is a feedback train wreck waiting to happen. So I think that is really important to remember that that the, you can have real conversations remotely, don't default to asynchronous communication in a remote work setting.
00:23:30:12 - 00:23:52:09
Speaker 1
You know, interesting example for me was over 20 years ago, I was a reserve, Douglas County sheriff. I did a lot of ride alongs with some of the up and coming, police officers, and I had one that I admired greatly. Adam Contos, who eventually became CEO of Remax.
00:23:52:11 - 00:23:54:13
Speaker 2
Oh, wow. It's amazing.
00:23:54:15 - 00:24:06:15
Speaker 1
The, we've been on a call, and, we're on the radio, and he told one of his underlings, he says, hey, when you get a moment free, call my cell.
00:24:09:07 - 00:24:17:21
Speaker 1
And he hung up and I said, Adam, why'd you do that? He got him right on the radio. Yeah. This is I was going to have to criticize him for wanting.
00:24:17:22 - 00:24:19:15
Speaker 2
To do that in private.
00:24:19:17 - 00:24:22:23
Speaker 1
And I didn't want 200 other police officers hearing me in his.
00:24:22:23 - 00:24:42:17
Speaker 2
But that is so important. And and, it seems like a simple example, but it's really important. Leadership, like you want to criticize in private, because if you criticize in public, the other person's mind goes into sort of fight or flight mode. And then they literally physically can't hear what you're saying, so you're wasting your breath.
00:24:42:22 - 00:24:52:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. So how can leaders ensure that ambition is fostered equally across diverse teams?
00:24:52:04 - 00:25:23:18
Speaker 2
It is really important. What? There's a great article, by David Thomas, who's, who is the president of Morehouse College and it's called it's called protective Hesitation. And he writes about how leaders often, fail to give feedback across difference. another person who writes about this is Claude Steele and one of my favorite books of all time, whistling Vivaldi and the the.
00:25:23:18 - 00:25:51:22
Speaker 2
The problem here is, is that you want to make sure that you're giving credit. If you have criticism for your employees, that you're giving criticism equally to all your employees. But sometimes if I'm if I'm a boss who's white, I might be more hesitant to give feedback that an employee who is black, let's say, needs to get.
00:25:51:23 - 00:26:18:04
Speaker 2
And because I don't want to be called racist, but if I do that, then I'm actually doing the racist thing. I'm not. I'm discriminating in my feedback. So you want to make sure that you're you're giving feedback to everybody, in, in kind of an equal way. And that is going to encourage everyone's ambition. I think it's also really important to make sure that you don't assume that you know what people's ambitions are.
00:26:18:04 - 00:26:48:23
Speaker 2
I have a friend of mine is a single mom, and when she got pregnant with her daughter, she told her boss she said, do not imagine that I am taking my foot off the accelerator of my career. I am more ambitious than ever because what I want to do, my goal is, is to to be able to be financially secure enough that by the time my daughter is 12, then that's when I want to spend more time with her.
00:26:48:23 - 00:27:09:19
Speaker 2
But as a baby, you know, it seemed it seemed like she could hire a nanny to do a lot of that work. But when she was 12, she wanted she wanted to have more time with her. And her boss didn't listen when, when an opportunity came for promotion, he assumed that she would want to spend.
00:27:09:19 - 00:27:38:23
Speaker 2
Even though she had been very explicit with him, he assumed that she was not going to want that promotion, and as a result, she quit that job and took a job somewhere else that was going to give her those opportunities for advancement when her when her child was very young. So I think it's really important that you, as a leader, listen to the the ambitions of the people, don't make assumptions about what people want or don't want or what they can or cannot do.
00:27:39:01 - 00:27:41:11
Speaker 2
check your own biases.
00:27:41:12 - 00:27:54:18
Speaker 1
That makes sense. what advice do you have for emerging leaders, who want to cultivate grit, ambition in themselves and their teams as they navigate the career together?
00:27:54:20 - 00:28:34:20
Speaker 2
One of the things that I think is, as I mentioned before, is, is make sure your and there's a wonderful book called mindset by Carol Dweck, but make sure you have this growth mindset with your team, because that one of the things that that really poses a challenge to grit is if you is fear of failure, and if you fear that you're going to get labeled as something, if you fail, then you're not gonna take the kinds of risks that you need to take in order in order to fulfill your ambitions, and also in order to have grit.
00:28:34:20 - 00:29:04:04
Speaker 2
Because because in order to have grit, you need to be willing to keep trying, and you need to be willing to fail. And so cultivating that kind of growth mindset is going to help people, know that it is it's the noble mistake is rewarded, and under your leadership. So one of the things that I used to do when I manage a big team at Google is I would bring in a stuffed daisy.
00:29:04:04 - 00:29:37:04
Speaker 2
It was called whips a Daisy, and I would I would share the biggest mistake I had made that week. And I would invite the whole team to share their biggest mistake. And the deal was if you shared your mistake, you got instant forgiveness. And you helped, educate your colleagues not to make the same mistake. So and and it also created this environment where people were more willing to take risks because failure was what we were open about.
00:29:37:04 - 00:29:57:07
Speaker 2
Failure. it's really important to to cultivating psychological safety as well to, to make, make it safe to admit failure because you can't fix problems. You refuse to notice. Right? And if it's too dangerous to notice a failure, you're doomed to repeat it over and over and over again.
00:29:57:09 - 00:30:04:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. One of my, weaknesses as a young leader was my, refusal to fire people.
00:30:04:22 - 00:30:05:17
Speaker 2
Yes.
00:30:05:19 - 00:30:17:12
Speaker 1
I have a sales background. I like to be liked. Yeah, I like my team. And I bragged, even up through the 38 years that not a single officer of my company had ever left me.
00:30:17:14 - 00:30:18:02
Speaker 2
Wow.
00:30:18:05 - 00:30:39:08
Speaker 1
And that in reality, a bunch of them should have. Yeah. And, the team you start with is never the one you finished with. Yeah. One day a bit. The bullet I took for my side privately and said, I've made a decision. I've tried to work with you. You're not changing. You're not carrying your load. you have 1 or 2 decisions today.
00:30:39:10 - 00:30:50:22
Speaker 1
You can quit and resign, and I'll give you a year severance pay. or I can fire you, and you can get two weeks severance pay. would you like, And, of course, they.
00:30:51:00 - 00:30:51:23
Speaker 2
They all resigned.
00:30:52:04 - 00:31:13:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, they wanted to argue, and, I said, no decision is mine, and I'm done. So which is it? I want to be friends, etc.. So we did that. It was, interestingly enough, I overheard a conversation that was not supposed to be here, and it was two of the younger people in the company. They said, boy, Dave must be really bummed.
00:31:13:23 - 00:31:37:19
Speaker 1
38 years and all of a sudden never lose a person. And four people quit the same day. And his friends said to rethink. They quit. Yeah. And so, yeah, the next day was our company sales meeting our employees. And at the end I do questions and answers. And at the time, one of my Liberal Democrat friends that's a writer, looked up at me.
00:31:37:19 - 00:31:47:20
Speaker 1
He was never afraid of me. And he said, date, I have to have a personal question. What the hell did he have on you? That you didn't fire him ten years ago?
00:31:49:15 - 00:31:50:20
Speaker 1
And so it tells you.
00:31:50:22 - 00:31:51:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:31:51:09 - 00:31:53:04
Speaker 1
Oh, no, it the people notice.
00:31:53:05 - 00:32:17:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. People know. People know when somebody is not performing and you're not doing that person any favors and you're not doing the whole team any favors, and you're not doing yourself any favors not to deal with it. But it's the it's by far the worst part of managing people is firing people. So I understand why people elect, I mean, I've been reluctant to do it myself, as you can tell from that Bob story.
00:32:17:22 - 00:32:29:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, I understand, we've used up time. I'd like to thank you a lot. how do people is there a process to a, preorder radical respect?
00:32:29:11 - 00:32:49:08
Speaker 2
Yes. You can. You can preorder radical respect anywhere that you like to buy books. You can go to, Amazon. You can go to your local bookstore. You can go to Barnes and Noble. you can go to Best Bookstore. There's a bunch of links you can go to, to the radical respect book website. Radical Respect Bbc.com.
00:32:49:10 - 00:32:57:04
Speaker 2
There's bunches of links, different places you can preorder. but wherever you like to buy books, always encourage people to go to their neighborhood bookstore.
00:32:57:11 - 00:33:06:12
Speaker 1
That's awesome. Well, you've got great advice to give a lot of people. I enjoyed the, presentation. I'm going to go out and pre murder my radical respect today.
00:33:06:14 - 00:33:12:00
Speaker 2
Thank you so much. Excited to get your. I hope you'll be radically candid about it. Tell me what you think.
00:33:12:02 - 00:33:13:13
Speaker 1
I'll leave you a review.
00:33:13:15 - 00:33:14:20
Speaker 2
All right. Thank you.
00:33:14:22 - 00:33:16:01
Speaker 1
Thanks for everything, Kim.