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Want a peak behind the curtain into one of the best places to work in cybersecurity and the minds of the innovators behind the industry’s leading security operations platform? Tune in to The Howler podcast!
Hosted by Chelsea Lowman, People Experience Specialist, and Mary Newville, People Experience Senior Manager, the culture duo connects with pack leaders on leadership insights, mental health and overall wellbeing, and how they lead their teams to advance our mission of ending cyber risk.
The Howler - Chris Kraft_1-audio
Thu, Aug 07, 2025 1:42PM � 1:13:22
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
hot air balloon, Euro summer, Newcastle office, Barcelona, cybersecurity, product management, Arctic Wolf, Chris Kraft, leadership principles, work-life balance, board games, team collaboration, cyber risk, product strategy, customer value
SPEAKERS
Speaker 1, Mary Newville, Speaker 2, Chelsea Lowman
Chelsea Lowman 00:00
Hey, welcome back to the Heller Podcast. I'm Chelsea Mary, and welcome to our August episode. We were just talking before this. I can't believe we're at the last month of summer.
Mary Newville 00:15
I shared the summer though, like, how is next month, September,
Chelsea Lowman 00:19
right? And then I know we said this last episode, but once it's September, it's 2026 it's the new year at that point. But
Mary Newville 00:28
then I'm like, but didn't 2025 just begin? Literally, I
Chelsea Lowman 00:33
have not, you know, this isn't what I plan on talking about, but we have. I have not even thought about my intention, my New Year's resolution, whatever we call them
Mary Newville 00:45
same. I don't even think I could tell you what mine is,
Chelsea Lowman 00:50
same, exactly. I think my word was discipline. Have I been disciplined? No, but that's okay. We still have five more months. That's the mindset. So you summer. You just got back from a very
Mary Newville 01:07
exciting summer trip. I did a Euro summer, a Euro summer 2025, yes, I went to our Newcastle office for a week, which was so lovely to see our Newcastle pack. And then at the end of that trip, I took a week off of PTO and did London for the weekend, because that's where we where I started. And then a couple days in Paris, took the train to Paris, and then said the last part of the trip in Barcelona.
Chelsea Lowman 01:41
Love. Okay, I did want to ask you about a certain hot air balloon experience
Mary Newville 01:49
goodness,
Chelsea Lowman 01:51
because all of a sudden I get on Instagram and I'm seeing Mary literally above the clouds in a hot air balloon. And I own my own heart, like fell into the pits of my stomach. I was, like, that looks beautiful, but terrifying. So like, tell us this story. How did we end up unprotected?
Mary Newville 02:19
Yes, no, I have a lot of thoughts. And like honestly, I feel like I would say 10 out of 10 do not recommend really learn from my mistake, if you will. So I have been on a hot air balloon ride before. Couple years ago, a friend and I were in Kenya on Safari, and part of the you could add on doing a hot air balloon ride. And we were like, YOLO, you only live once. Yeah. Like, when are we ever going to be in hot air balloon above the Maasai Mara? So we did it, and it was so amazing, and I never was scared for even a second. It was so breathtaking. But we never even rose above the clouds. I swear I don't have a good depth perception, maybe, or not. I feel in my mind we were like 35 feet above the ground. That's probably, maybe it was like 100 I don't know, but like, you could clearly see the ground, because that was part of the thing. You'd see the animals. So when my boyfriend and I were planning this trip, we were like, looking into things to do, and we saw that you could, like, do a hot air balloon over the countryside of Barcelona, Catalonia. And I shouldn't say that the Catalonia is the countryside, but it wasn't in Barcelona proper. It was like, in the country. And we were like, Oh my gosh, that'd be, like, a cool experience. Kind of get out of the city a bit, get a bird's eye view. Like, I've done it before. How amazing. We signed up. It had really great reviews, and so, like, it really was rated, like 2.9 or, sorry, not 2.9 4.9 on out of five stars on like Google and TripAdvisor. So we did it, and we were like, Oh my gosh, less a couple lessons can be learned from my story. So anyways, we get there, we go up, and I will say that one of the things that made me more nervous is that right before this, on the work trip to Barcelona or to Newcastle, I was talking about the upcoming trip. Instead, I was going to go on a hot air balloon. And Kristen Dean, our Chief People Officer, she was like, Oh my gosh, didn't you hear about the hot air balloon crash that just happened in Minnesota? And I was like, No, it was fresh. And she was like, Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure you'll be fine. But that seed was planted deep in my, like, heart. I was like, trying not to think about it, but I was like, okay, hot air balloon crash. Balloon crashes. Like, do happen, and you usually don't survive them. But I didn't let myself look it up, because I was like, right. Odds matter, and this company is well reviewed and well rated, and it seems to be reputable, and we paid, I don't want to get a good deal on a hot. Air balloon ride. You know what I mean? Right, right. What a decent price. And I feel good about that, like, if this is cheap, I'm like, should we really be going up here? Yeah, so that was in the back of my mind. And then the other thing, so since I had that in the back of my mind, it made me nervous that it was a really foggy day, and when we were taking off, there was 12345, there was five other balloons taking off from the same like area as us, and it's foggy, and so I'm already a little bit anxious. And I asked the driver, I'm like, is there like radar on us? Like, how do other balloons see us? And how do we see them? Clouds? Because of the language barrier, we were a little bit lost in translation, and he said to me, Oh, two balloons hitting, no big deal, basket and balloon hitting, bad news, bad news. And I was like, so now I need to be concerned that, like, if the balloon hits another basket, we are close, and we literally, like, take off, like there was low visibility. So as when we took off, we were like, in fog, and you couldn't see anything, and by the time we emerge, yeah, we are literally above the clouds. Wow. And I was like, my anxiety level was so high I was trying to be I was like, You know what? If this is my last moment of life, want to enjoy it and try to, like, have wonderful memories, and everybody else seemed cool, calm, collected, but because I was comparing to my previous experience where I could see the grounds, I was very aware that I was, like at airplane level, except for, I know that's not true, because he said we would reach or the highest we could be was 1700 meters, which is 3000 plus feet. And on the airplane home, the pilot did say we were at cruising altitude of 33,000 feet. So I was like, Okay, I was at the airplane level, but still so so high, like you could not make up the ground. We were like, looking at the clouds and it was scary. Like sometimes the visibility did get better, like the fog went down, and we would like, change, elevate, or, if that's the right word, we'd like go down and come back up. And we'd like go down and like, see the countryside, and then we'd go back up. But there were several times that you could hear on hot air balloons, they'll like the captain, if you will, like pulls down to release the gas into the balloon. So it makes this really loud, like air sound, as the gas is filling up the balloon. You could hear that, but you couldn't see another balloon. So I was like, We are another balloon. I can hear it, but we cannot see it. And I was so scared, but I was trying to be calm, because I didn't want to make other people scared. And again, I was like, if this is my last memory on Earth, like, I might as well try to have a good time. Right? Honestly, to our captain was like, not concerned at all. He seemed very chill. He was radioing with the other like he had a walkie talkie and they were talking. So I think it really was fine. I don't think they would take us up in unsafe conditions, but it did occur to me, like, if anyone has died, like they were not able to leave the the one star review. So I don't know for ballooning if the rating system is the way to go well,
Chelsea Lowman 08:19
but that's the moral of the story is, actually we don't have any low reviews.
Mary Newville 08:27
But no, here's my lessons. I would say, honestly, like, if you are someone that's a little bit more anxious, I usually don't get too nervous about things like this, but I was so aware of how fragile my little human body is in this like, just literally a basket hanging under balloon that was being held up by flames, and I was just so high I couldn't I was, like, very aware. I don't think if I did it again, I would want to read how far up the balloon goes, like, if they tell you how many meters per week they plan to fly. And I would also see if there was, like, what the cancelation policy was, so that I would have the option to cancel if, because it was I don't, I think had it not been foggy, I would have not been as nervous. But the fact that it was foggy and we couldn't see anything made me so nervous. Yeah, anyways, that those are my lessons. Think about the fact that the reviews don't account for anybody that may have died. Okay,
Chelsea Lowman 09:22
you heard it here, folks, if you're considering a hot air balloon ride, Mary's tips, where you ride, but to your point, you survived. And when else are you gonna literally be above the clouds, like, not in a plane, not in a parachute, skydiving, you know what I mean? Like, when alcohol, you just get to I was gonna say serenely, even though it wasn't that serene, because we were really anxious. But like, I'm sure for other people, it was, like, very serene. Just like, yeah, clouds and
Mary Newville 09:53
it was serene. It was almost things where it was so amazing. And I was like, wow, could I. Guy, so you know both.
Chelsea Lowman 10:06
Okay, fun. I wonder if our guest has had any I wouldn't say this was a near death experience, but a scary experience where they were contemplating their fragility and,
Mary Newville 10:20
yeah, mortality mentality. I want to know, have you had anything? Um,
Chelsea Lowman 10:26
well, I'm an anxious flyer, so I feel like anytime I'm on the plane, I'm contemplating my mortality, whether it's the smoothest, smoothest ride of your life or not. So I feel like every and I'm also just anxious about those types of things. So I feel like every day I'm like, I could die today.
Mary Newville 10:47
Okay, you're like, This is just my existence.
Chelsea Lowman 10:52
Not as fun of an answer that's more for therapy podcast.
Mary Newville 11:00
Um, okay. Well, speaking of our guests, all right, we are really excited today to chat with our podcast guest, Chris Craft, our Chief Product Officer. Chris drives the strategic direction of the company's product portfolio and roadmap. He leads cross functional teams that are expanding the Arctic wolf Aurora platform with innovative capability designed to improve detection, accelerate response and simplify operations for customers around the globe. A veteran and cybersecurity product executive with more than 25 years of experience, Chris has built and scaled security products used by hundreds of 1000s of businesses worldwide before joining our Dick Wolf, he held senior product roles at Sophos, VeriSign and signal. He earned a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. Okay,
Chelsea Lowman 11:45
welcome to the podcast, Chris. We're so excited to have
11:49
you. Great to be here with you.
Chelsea Lowman 11:53
Mary and I were talking before you joined, and we were both saying we don't think either of us have ever had a chance to talk to you before, so we were, like, really excited, because we really did not know what to expect.
Speaker 1 12:06
Well, we're all in for a big surprise. Then today, aren't we? No
Chelsea Lowman 12:12
pressure. But like, we, you know, we, we have high expectations. No, I won't say we're
Speaker 1 12:21
just excited. Let's, let's try and have a few laughs as we, as we get through the the meat of the discussion,
Mary Newville 12:29
yeah, love that. Okay. Firstly, I want to know so anyone that's watching the podcast can see, obviously the video, Chris, did you style your shelves behind you.
Speaker 1 12:40
I did not my wonderful, wonderful wife did. I will say that I in speaking with my wife, I said it wouldn't, it wouldn't it be great if I had a stylized shelf behind me, because a lot of people are going to be looking at me on Zoom, and I'd rather have something nicer for them to focus their eyes on, potentially from time to time. And so yeah, in the background, and you can't see the whole thing, but there's a number of shelves with a number of my interests on those shelves, and from time to time, some of it changes. I'm not as good as I was a year ago at changing out one thing and see if you can spot the difference. But, yeah, I can't claim sole ownership. It was, it was my idea, though.
Mary Newville 13:28
Hey, I love it. Well, they love little easter eggs to your interests,
Chelsea Lowman 13:33
yeah, yeah. Could you tell us about one of your interests that we could see on the shelf right now? Well,
Speaker 1 13:42
there are many of interests that I have. I would say one of the interests that people might not know about me is that I really enjoy gaming. So this would be board gaming. I don't get much time to video game, but I enjoy gaming. And I enjoy it because I love a little bit of fun and mischief, playing games together with with friends and family. There's a lot of like, board games that are collaborative in nature, so it's fun to, like create memories together. And I just really enjoy it. It's a lot of fun. And so I have outside of the frame at the bottom of my shelf, probably about 25 games, and then I have a chest just that way, that has about a number 8085, more games in it. So I take my gaming and my gaming research pretty seriously.
Mary Newville 14:42
Okay, love that. What is like in what's like your top three games? Like, if you're having a game night or a dinner party or the fam wants to play a game, what are you like lobbying for? You're like, I want to play. I
Speaker 1 14:53
love that question. And based on my personality, I would want to ask you some questions. Because you you choose the game based on how many people you're playing with for how long you're playing the general tone of the people. Why don't I share with you some some of my favorite safer games to play? Okay, there's big heavy games, like Euro war games that take a couple hours to play and it takes like 20 minutes to set up, and like, eyes glaze over if you're not like so, yeah, I would say some of the family favorites. Now I'm in a family of artists. My three daughters and my wife are very visually skilled in terms of design and art. I am not. I struggle to draw a straight line, but we have a game that we really enjoy to play together and with other folks, called drawful. And it is the game where you are given no one else can see it, but the person's turn, they're given a monster. It's a complicated looking monster. You study it, you set it down, you don't get to look at it again, and then you draw it, and then everyone you describe it to people. Anyways, check it out. That's a fun one. Okay, really fun game for if you want to do creative but you're not skilled at drawing. Uh, is Dixit. Dixit's a really fun game. That's a game where you're all handed these cards, beautiful, artful cards. And it's a game of trying to create some phrases that describe these cards, and playing a game in a in a circle of being able to try and pick each other's card. It's a little too much for a podcast to describe, but fix it is a wonderful game. There's a ton of add ons, and then I would probably say, I'll give you a I'll give you two more really quickly. One is called for sale. That's a card game where you're buying and selling property with friends. Super light, super fun game. And then I'd say my favorite two player cooperative game, which is a really interesting concept, where against each other, you're playing together, is called Sky team. It's a pretty new game, and there's one person's the pilot, one person's the co pilot. And parts of the game, you're not allowed to talk to each other, but you have to do certain moves to try and navigate this plane through the sky, land it. And you're given a whole bunch of scenarios, of like fuel leak, clouds, traffic, my middle daughter started when we first started playing. She's like, Dad, I know you're having fun, but this is really stressful for me, but it's not fun. I love games. We could talk about games for over an hour, but that's a dimension of my life that is a ton of fun.
Mary Newville 18:02
I also have a huge I love playing games as well. Not the first kind that you described, where it's like, hours long and, like, super complex, but like, I'm definitely gonna look up all the games you just mentioned, because those sound super fun. Have you I'm really obsessed right now with a game called coup. Have you ever played it?
Speaker 1 18:18
Of course. Do you like there's another game similar to that, called werewolf. These are bigger group games, typically, where, like the the classic is werewolf, where, if you've got a group of, you know, 810, 16, unruly people, that's a game I would pull out, because the whole idea is, you're all handed secret cards, and some of you are villagers, and a couple of you are werewolves. And so everyone goes to sleep at night. You duck your head down, and then the werewolves wake up, and they kill someone, and then everyone wakes up. And so everyone's looking at each other, and they're like, I think you're the werewolf. And lots of table talk and debate, and then you vote people off. Wonderful game
Mary Newville 19:05
like, Who better than werewolf? Because I feel like in coup, everybody has a more active role, and you can be, I mean, I know in werewolf, you can pretend to be a werewolf as well, but I feel like in werewolf, if you're a villager, it can be kind of not as fun, I think, personally, but
Speaker 1 19:27
anyways, a great game. I agree with you. I love being a villager, because one, and maybe we'll talk about it, but I love analyzing things, and one of the things I love to analyze is people and faces, and people say and so the real drawback is, when I'm the werewolf, I'm usually a lot quieter because I'm the Inquisitor when I'm a villager, and then people are like, Dad's kind of quiet, right now, you
Chelsea Lowman 19:58
have a towel. Well. Have either of you played because I really like those types of games, like mafia. I haven't played werewolf for it, but that it sounds like it's mafia. Have you played the game? Avalon,
Speaker 1 20:09
yeah, I have. I have all these games we're talking about right next
20:15
to me, right here,
Chelsea Lowman 20:16
my go to game, because it's kind of like mafia werewolf, but like, next level, because you go on like, quests together, and then if you fail the quest, people have to figure and there's rounds, so you have to figure out, like, when we sent those two people, it failed, so one of them must be a bad guy. But then in round three, we sent these people, and it worked. And I don't know I like that one. That's my
Speaker 1 20:41
favorite versions that are a ton of fun, some with really dubious titles that I will not mention on this podcast, but are amazing, really, really good games. But yeah, so it sounds like I am in a group of kindred spirits. Board games are a ton of fun. I tend to aim more towards either mischief or cooperation, just straight out battling against each other, with the exception of a few games, like I feel like that's my work life, like we are battling to out value competitors, and like I am intensely in that and so usually by the time it's evening, in with family. I don't want to create a lot of conflict and controversy, yeah. Or mischief tends to be what I I go to More often than not,
Chelsea Lowman 21:31
okay, yeah. And I love the word mischief. When you said it the first time, I was like, Oh, I love that word. And then you brought up, because it's just, it's the cute way of saying. You're getting into a little bit of trouble being silly. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1 21:52
an example for everyone of what I mean by that is there's a very classic game that most people who play games know, which is called Ticket to Ride, and it's a game where you're given these a map, and there's a bunch of them, you're given a map, and your goal is to connect one destination to another. Well, if you're playing against people, and you kind of figure out where people are trying to go, you might drop some train cars in the way to kind of block their route to get there, which makes it a bit more challenging. It's not really beneficial to you. Yeah, super mischievous, slightly mean, yeah, fun and great stories. When you just people go, ah oh my goodness,
Mary Newville 22:36
yeah. Okay, well, okay, that makes me think I just have one quick story. Learn to Play Settlers of Catan. Do you ever play that? Of course, yeah, okay. I learned to play with my family post college and during college, I felt like it was a nerdy game that boys played. That was what I thought about it. So I was like, I will never like that. But then my sister's husband loved it, so he got all of us into it. And then, of course, we all became obsessed, but I had only ever played it in the family context, and my family is just like, so agreeable, and they don't lean into the mischief. So it'll be like, Hey, does anybody have um, wolf or trade? And everyone's like, Yeah, sure. Like, we just like, trade a walk. The first time I played with friends and somebody wouldn't trade, and I knew that. I was like, What are you like? What are you doing?
23:20
What's going on here? Yeah,
Mary Newville 23:22
just give it to me, and then I give you what I have. Like, we're trying to, you know, like, rising tide, lifts all boats. And it was just so funny that first game where people are being mischievous and silly, because I was like, What are you doing? Like, we just, we just share.
Speaker 1 23:36
It's a very balance, right? There's a balance of just being fun, and a little bit of pokey poke but, and then, then it can be, like, outright nefarious and that that I'm I'm less interested in that, because I want to laugh and have fun together, not have one person like have their night ruined, right? It's a balance,
Mary Newville 23:57
yeah? Well, I'm so excited to learn about how some of these like the mischief and the fun, the collaboration, like plays into Arctic Wolf and what you do here. So we should jump in to how you got to Arctic Wolf. Can we start there? Tell us a little bit about let's start at the very beginning. What did you want to be when you grew up, and when you were six, and people were asking you this in the first grade, were you like, Chief Product Officer? But if not, where do you start and then, like, kind of, what's like the cliff notes that got us to leading the product organization at Arctic health.
Speaker 1 24:33
All right, I will try and give you a whistle stop tour of perhaps mystery. Okay, great from the very beginning. So I'll give you a fast fact. I was born on Christmas Day, and so I came home in a stocking as a child, I I always had a passion for how things work, so I. Always curious. My dad, as a hobby, would work on on cars and on boats in the garage in the evening. I was always very curious, but it was always kind of dangerous, because if I was walking by the garage and he'd be like, hand me a wrench, I'd look at his toolbox. And as a six year old kid, you just look at this, like, huge box of metal and, and, like, I probably pulled out a file, and I like, hand it. And he's like, No, the wrench. And so I learned, I learned quickly what the different tools were and, and really, that started a big curiosity. I grew up in the Bay Area, California, born and raised there, born in Mountain View. And I think having been born and raised there, of course, that's the hub of where a lot of tech kind of developed and evolved. So from a young age, my my interest in kind of physical mechanics kind of transitioned into technology, probably pre teen. Like there were companies like, you know, obviously IBM, HP, Hewlett, Packard Atari, and then Apple, all of those were kind of based in in my neighborhood and and so I had a chance at a young age to interact with computers. Green Screen, orange screen, and just see the evolution. I was fascinated by computers. What fascinated me about computers, I really can't answer you. Maybe it's the possibility of what these machines may do. But I had a deep, deep passion for computers from a very young age, and one of my first experiences was my dad taking a computer home and kind of showing it off to me. It was like an IBM, 8086 or something like that, pre at 286 and I remember getting on the screen and typing on it, and I formatted His disc accidentally. And if, if you all know what formatting a disk means, it's basically the great erase. He didn't even know what I was doing because he hadn't really worked with the computer either. And you know, I'm like, Well, let's try this. And I ended up formatting the disc and it was all recovered, because there's really nothing that of consequence. But anyways, I need to move forward. Love technology. Grew up building computers, my own computers playing video games. I still built my own computers because I like, kind of putting them together the way I want to. Of course, with the exception of laptops, I let's see, I went to college and studied business, computer science, chemistry and economics, all at the same time for a few years, and I'm like, and I really loved learning. I loved school, but then I thought, you know, we I got a I fell in love with my wife, and I thought, I gotta, I gotta get serious here. So what's my fastest way out of school? And I with a degree in economics, I studied quite a bit of computer science, a lot of chemistry. I can talk to you a lot about organic chemistry, if there's an interest. But then that started my kind of off into my career, and I knew I wanted to get into computers. And we skipped a lot of my earlier years of I had my own computer consulting company in high school and college and all that kind of goofy stuff, but, but when it came to and I was also a a chef at KFC in high school as well, cannot say I know the the Colonel's recipe, but I have rolled in it. I've rolled a lot of chicken in it. I went back. I then my first job was as a out of college was, well, my second job really was in tech as a product manager. And I didn't know at the time, product manager was a pretty new concept. This is back in 1998 and I joined a company and and the CEO at the time said, we hire great talent and we find a fit for the role. And so I joined, and I said, All right, well, what can I do? And they're like, well, we need a product manager. And so I became a product manager. My very first product this company was building a bridge between financial networks and the internet, and so I was a product manager that connected the what's called the first data platform, and later Telecheck and some other platforms into the internet. So what we do today being able to. To present a credit card and make payments. This is what we built. And our early claim to fame was we could turn around a credit card decision in 2.2 seconds, if I recall correctly. And we could we had, like, duplicate detection, because people in those days would like, pound the buy button, and then it would like, register a whole bunch of transactions, and so did a bunch of suppression. And that technology, that first product management job, is still parts of those technology are still in use, eventually landed in the hands of PayPal. So that was a really, really neat experience. I did that for a couple years. That company was acquired by a bigger company called VeriSign. Oh, by the way, some lessons on that. Let's make it a little bit commercial. So I joined, I joined this company. It was called payment net. It changed its name to signo through a rebranding exercise. The big challenge is the product manager. I love the geekiness of like defining the requirements, but I learned that the success of a product requires you to do a lot more than just make sure that technology is right. I had to make sure that, in the day, it integrated into shopping carts. So this concept of like these technologies people use to build websites, because otherwise people didn't know how to do this. So in part of my job was to develop these integrator relationships, and we had to put a lot of training on the website to help customers, our customers, which were merchants, set up what were called merchant accounts so that they could accept credit cards. And so it was a lot about there's a broader ecosystem at play that Chris, you need to think more than just the really fun, nerdy bits. You have to think about the business and the customer experience, and how are they going to be able to interact with this technology in order to accrue benefits? So I learned that the the next company, which because we were acquired by VeriSign, they moved me to lead something called their client, PKI business. And doesn't that sound nerdy? AI is public key infrastructure, and it is a method by which you can set up a encrypted or secure channel between one thing and another on the internet, HOST to HOST, client to host, all this kind of stuff, and it's what's powered, you know, our ability to do online shopping, because if you didn't have that, People could just sniff your traffic and see your credit card data and see whatever else. So I, I product managed, led the their client, PKI business, and what I learned about that job was that customers really resent very complex security technology, even if it solves the problem. Well, they just don't. They don't have the passion that I had about all the bits and bobs. They need things to just work, and they are willing to compromise some degree of security for usability. Now, we know that's true generally, because the most secure system is the one where you've taken the scissors and cut the cords and turn off wireless like that's a fully secure computer, but it's semi useless, right? So? But the challenge is, how do you find that balance? How do you find the balance of security and deployability and usability. So I learned a lot in that job, because it was really technological, technologically deep stuff. Learned a lot about how to make things usable. How do we find that balance? It was a good experience. By that time we had had our second daughter, I have three daughters, as I mentioned earlier, and I when I married, I married a Canadian. She was from Vancouver, Canada.
Speaker 1 34:12
We were at a stage where we both thought it would be great from a family perspective, not necessarily from a career perspective, to move close to my wife's family so our so our kids could grow up knowing and spending time near that set of grandparents. And so we did a product manager in tech, born and raised in the Bay Area, moved out in the early days of his career to Vancouver, Canada, so that the kids could spend time with the grandparents. And seemed like a great idea. You can get to know me a little bit about it's not just purely all about work all the time. There's a balance of, you know, work choices and family choices. And so he moved up. And prior to moving up. Had talked to recruiters in Vancouver about, like, Are there any tech jobs here? Is there? You know, what am I doing from a career standpoint? And there were a few options. And there was this one company that was just starting into solving the spam problem. They were a bunch of technologists that built a, what's called, what's called an IDE. It's the tool set that engineers use to write software. They have their own tools, like we have Word and Excel and PowerPoint. Engineers in writing software use what's called an IDE, and it does a bunch of things to simplify their tasks and manage that, and so, but this group of people had created this technology that they thought could solve spam. So I said, I'll come on board. I'll lead it, I'll drive it, and let's see what we can make of it. And so I joined and we we took it from no money to, I think we were shy of $10 million after a year. But I mean, from zero to like, $10 million is a lot, and we wanted to grow the company, and so we went out for VC funding to see, okay, who's going to fund us. This is back in 2002 and and we ended up being acquired by a larger security company called Sophos. So Sophos bought us, and they gave me the the product management responsibility for network security and so in contrast to endpoint security, network security is securing communications in flight, in transit, whereas endpoint security is securing this specific device and kind of the behaviors of device. So that began a 17 year career at Sophos, where we went from that first $10 million to after 17 years, it was about a half a billion dollar business. We grew from just anti spam technology to web security to firewalls to wireless security, a whole variety of different products. I lived three years in Germany as part of an acquisition that we made to help that organization bed down as a part of Sophos and wound up right back in Vancouver after 17 years and so many bits and bobs to that story that I'll bypass, but did that was in Vancouver and 2020 it was covid timeframe, and the Sophos was acquired by Tom o Bravo, and I retired. I thought, all right, you know, I have, you know, worked hard, traveled a lot, had wonderful experiences. And I think I'm gonna hang up my cleats. And, you know, just see what happens from here. And then, long story short, two years later, I was super bored. I had sanded every wood surface at my home. I had built lunches. I had traveled all over. I had done all the things I wanted to, I was calling friends saying, When are you off work? When can we go play? And I was just like, I am bored, and I need to make myself be productive. And so I I reached out to a friend, and at the same time he was, you know, it was just perfect timing. A friend was reaching out to me and said, we have a need for, you know, a leader in product management, and I'm like, I need a job. My wife would love for me to have a job, and I think I would like to have a job to keep myself busy and and that started a process of talking to Arctic Wolf and I, that friend was Dan Chiapa and talking to the leadership of the company, understanding what the company was doing and how they had taken both technology and service and fuse that together In a security outcome that you could deliver to customer customers was incredibly unique, and that was super exciting. The other thing that was super exciting to me was the fact that in my career, most of what we were trying to do was in well established markets. How do you differentiate? What's the one thing you can do that's a little bit different, so people will buy your product instead of another product. And coming to Arctic Wolf, it is a new it's a new segment of the market being defined. It's evolving, and there's a sound strategy. We have to just find a path to executing consistent. Recently, and I thought, Wow, that's a that's different. That'd be a great challenge. And so I've been with the company for just about two and a half years, and 1111 being here, not saying that there aren't really hard days and really awesome days, but you know, I look back and say that was a that was an amazing decision. I'm really happy to be one of the pack here.
Chelsea Lowman 40:25
Love, wow, that is a journey. I feel like you've been involved in so many important things that we use every day. Like you said, the credit card, tapping, the online shopping, obviously, just network security. So I feel like you've seen a lot, but I also love that you were, I didn't know you had retired. And I love that instead of, like, you know, just getting a part time job or maybe going back to KFC, like, you know, what Chief Product Officer that that,
41:04
yeah, instead,
Speaker 1 41:05
you know, I had a realization that just the nature of the work that I do in strategy and product, it's not conducive to contracting. You know, I had a lot of friends saying, just do some contracting. And it's like going to companies and saying, Hey, open up your crown jewels and let me play with them and help you frame that. It's just not something that you typically can contract. So in my line of work, fortunately or unfortunately, you're either all in or you're out. There's just really not a lot in between. So I'm here. Yeah, I feel like though I really enjoyed that time of KFC. The only time that I kind of look back with some regret is when I back to that mischief thing I did once after hours when we were supposed to be cleaning up, pulled out a fire extinguisher and pointed it at a friend, and thought I was going to squirt him with some water, and it ended up being one of these powder fire extinguishers, and I turned the entire KFC into a cloud of dust, and I spent hours dusting afterwards. Sorry, KFC, if you're listening. But that was the one not awesome thing that I did for all of the wonderful chicken that I cooked for so many wonderful customers. Well, it
Mary Newville 42:32
sounds like you have a really good, I have a couple thoughts. Well, I was gonna say it sounds like you have a really good, like, handle on, like, not taking yourself or life too seriously. I mean, even just in reflection of how, like you said, you grew up in the Bay Area, you're this tech guy working in technology, and you choose for and your family together to move towards family like that doesn't seem like, quote, unquote, maybe the right decision. And yet, look at where it led you, and I am such a goody goody two shoes, like pulling a fire extinguisher and my job, like I would never end after it happened. I would have been like, I'm getting fired. I will never be employed anywhere again. But I love I feel like I'm inspired hearing your story. Just it's that reminder of like there is no necessarily, like one right path, and often the best path for your success is like, not to be cheesy and not to say, follow your heart, but like to do what's right for you, to follow your interest, prioritize your family and what's things like, things work out the way they're supposed to work out. But okay, so you lead people at Arctic Wolf, I want to know, like, I mean, some observations I had. I feel like you you can tell you're a product leader because you're so good at taking tech and putting it in, like, layman's terms. Yeah. Like, so it's like, how you use Word to communicate. It's this for engineers, or it's just, like, naturally the way you talk, you make things relatable and understandable, but tell us about you as a leader. Like, how, what would you like? What's some of the best leadership advice you've received? Or, How have you grown from when you first started leading people to now? And also, how do you infuse this, like, love of fun and mischief into into leading as well? Or does that not really, does that take a back seat when you're when you're leaving?
Speaker 1 44:23
Well, there's a lot of questions. There's a lot, many I'm like, I just got to get them all out. Break this down in terms of what are. So is the question like, how do I lead like, would that be like? What are some of the tips of, how do I
44:44
tell
Mary Newville 44:46
us about like, what would what are some key leadership principles that you live by? Like, if you kind of had to define Chris crafts leadership style, but maybe, if you're telling us, give us some like, nuggets of like this. I. I do believe in this, but earlier my career, I was doing the opposite leadership advice,
Speaker 1 45:06
or I would say there's there's attributes that are things about me, and then there's some kind of governance or lessons that I've learned around that, in general, I am extremely detail oriented as a person, that's both a blessing and a curse in life, if there's an error in anything, I generally have a skill of at finding the error, and depending upon the nature of the error, I may obsess about it, not be able to see anything else except that error until it gets sorted out. I'll give you an example of something that annoys my peers. Actually. I think they laugh nowadays, but if I'm in a meeting room and there's a pen being clicked or lights buzzing, I can be completely distracted because of that. That's a negative side of detail orientation, but on the positive side, I always am trying to think, like, if we, if we hearken back to the earlier parts of my career, I'm always trying to build out whatever we're working on into a broader view of the ecosystem. So someone may be working on a feature and designing a feature, and I'm always like telescoping out a little bit. So what about this? What about like, does it fuse in more broadly, into the broader ecosystem? And one of the questions that if you're someone who works for me, you would know very well, is I'm always asking, what is the value being emitted to the customer, what is the success criteria? Because it's really easy in product to get excited about building things and designing and building blocks and working with your engineering partners on executing that, but if you don't have a laser focus on what is the value that's being emitted? And it seems basic, but it's it's a real challenge. And how do you quantify that, so that at the end of the day, we can say we we spent half a year of development cost of a team, but the revenue that we generated was x, or the impact on inbound phone calls was why, or the amount of customer satisfaction and churn reduction was this, if you don't, if you don't have real clarity of purpose in the work that you're doing, where you can measure it, you will really struggle. And so in my line of work, you really have to think about the effort and the return on effort, because in product management, you're you're expected not only to just design things and capture all the ideas, but you're to frame for customers and shareholders the balance of what matters most to the business, then you're always balancing a bunch of different things. It's always, how can we move quickly to help sales? But how do we move the strategic ball forward so that from a competitive standpoint, you know, we have a moat, or we're maintaining some competitiveness and, you know, and satisfying customer X or Y. There's a lot of details that go into that. So I'm detail oriented. I think being able to understand value are in my line of work, that's really, really important. It's easy to get busy. It's easy to be a pleaser, because you're going to have people that say, can you do this for me? And if you do that and you're not oriented towards the higher calling, you know, you have a real challenge. So I think that's one of the, you know, that's something about me. And then one leadership principle. I think there are a number of different things that kind of guide how I look at work, and how I guide the team, and what it's like to work with me. What would some other I do try and balance being playful? We in our company, we've been using this, this tool called insights discover. And insights discover is in some frames. I think it's colors, but it's, it's designed to frame what zones are you most comfortable kind of that drive you, you know, are you more into the definition and technical bits? Are you more competitively driven? Are you more having fun? Are you more relational? And there's these quadrants, and
Mary Newville 49:39
wait, can I guess Chris? Can I guess yours? Do you lead with blue, followed by, I can't decide if it would be yellow or red. Next,
Chelsea Lowman 49:50
I was gonna say red, but I don't know. Oh, does he have this box?
Speaker 1 49:56
I have my answer key, but I'm not showing it yet. Okay? Wait. Oh. Okay, I also wish you haven't looked Yeah, you don't know,
Chelsea Lowman 50:03
promise, Lee, I don't know if he leads with blue. I think he might lead with red. Oh, I was
Mary Newville 50:10
thinking, great. Well, okay, because you, he just said, like, core to who you are is the details, the data. So that would be blue, and you like you're laser focused, but then it sounds like you're really collaborative, which makes me think green, but also like, even in just this conversation, you're very engaging. You make things relatable. So that gives me that, like the yellow, the inspiring person, that's why I'm really torn. I don't think it's red next. I think it's yellow or green, than red. Okay,
Speaker 1 50:44
I will share with you the answer key. So there's two kind of interesting bits in in this, to me, one is how many of those are kind of balance that you're like high in where you know, one may be a deficit. And in terms of in that bullseye, I am three of four in the center of the bullseye. So
Mary Newville 51:08
three, two, it tracks that we're struggling, right? Because you're so
Speaker 1 51:12
but the one and I'm and I am actively trying to combat this, because it actually isn't who I Am that I Am lowest in in a professional context, is yellow. And so I have stacked my my leg, my bricks in order in which they are, and I will share with them. Share them to you now. The top one is what I lead with. The next two are tied a second, but all three are in the inner circle. Is my least strong? Okay,
Chelsea Lowman 51:49
okay, wow, okay. So for those listening,
51:52
I am a get it right person, but
Chelsea Lowman 51:57
yes, for those listening, it's blue on the top, and then green and red are stacked next to each other in the middle, and then yellow is at the bottom. Chris, I also stack mine that way because, you know, we're rare to have three in the inner circle. It's not common. How many people have three? Meant a lot of people have, like, two, yeah, what is
Mary Newville 52:23
your lowest then? Charles, green, green.
Chelsea Lowman 52:28
It makes you feel kind of crappy. I'm like, I'm a nice person.
Mary Newville 52:32
You're a very nice person.
Speaker 1 52:34
I think I'm a fun person. So I just think it's all relative. I think it's all just relative. But I think there is absolute truth that, like when I am what is my default operating mode in a meeting, I am in the details, and we are going through details and big but in part, because that is what's required of this role. You know, anyways, that that's fun, and I mean it, it has some some value. And so I thought I would share that. But there are many other kind of tidbits that I think are pearls of wisdom that I have learned over time. I would say one of the things that my father taught me at a young age, which which helped me in decision making, is never run away from something. Always run to something. There were many times in my career when I it was really hard, it I was really uncomfortable, and I call my dad and say, Dad, I don't know, like the the anguish and brain damage I feel like I am taking on in this job isn't right. And he would say, never run away. Always run to what is it that you really seek? What is the thing that you want more of and less of. Define that destination, and be deliberate and clear about that. And then as I would go through that, I think, well, maybe in this, in these pressure cooker moments, it's forging me. I'm learning so i There were, there were times where it was, it was tough, and I learned a lot of my biggest lessons by heeding that and trying to learn from from from the situation. Another one is I just, I don't think for me, asking my employer to lay out my career path was the way to go. I think your employer is a facilitator. It's a it's a playground of opportunity for you based on what you're you're contributing, but it really and an employer can help frame options. Questions for you, but only you can really define, where do you get your greatest passion? What? Where would you like to go and then drive towards that destination? So in my review process, you know, I would say, you know, I want to take on more of this, and I don't really like doing this. And I would I and being honest about those things and just putting it out there, I think worked out, worked out really well. And I mean, there's a bunch of other things I don't ask my team to do, things that I wouldn't do myself. And I mean, we could go on with a lot of different things, but those are a couple couple interesting tidbits. I think
Chelsea Lowman 55:45
I'm curious, if you wouldn't mind sharing, what are you running? What are you running towards right now,
Speaker 1 55:52
I am running towards realizing our vision of ending cyber risk. And I know in saying that, that it's a goal that will never be achieved, but I'll tell you why it's interesting to me. It's interesting to me because in all of my career leading up to Arctic Wolf, I was building products, and the products are only as good as the operator, as I'm sure you can imagine, a 747, cockpit is only as good as the pilot, you know, in there. And so you always had the challenge of, well, you got to have the right talent operating the tool and authoring the policies and monitoring and maintaining it. Whereas, in our view, we're creating a platform with products and modules on top and AI, and we have our s2, organization that layer on a human review, human auditing, human recommending system that enable us to go to customers and and deliver an outcome. So we have the ability to, like, not say, Hey, here's some great tools. Hope you have a good time with it and can hire the people that need to operate it. Or, flip side, hey, we're a services company. Go get some tools, and we'll charge you by the hour, and we'll help you out. And, you know, drain your bank account. We literally come and deliver an outcome. And I am really, I think I will remain here so long as I feel like I am contributing to that vision, and we collectively are are working towards achieving that outcome. There's like the the Brave New Frontier, which is what we refer to as security journey, and there's some exciting things that is a business that we're doing that broaden beyond some of our products and do bigger and broader things that the world will see with with time. And you know, as long as I'm having fun and as long as I'm pursuing this destination of ending cyber risk, and also it's a big deal for me who I'm working with. I spend so much time in my life working my day usually starts at 630 in the morning, and I don't get on my chair until late in the day. And I'm passionate about the nature of the work, but who I'm working with matters equally as much. And I really like the people here. I really like Arctic Wolf. I think a big reason for that is the leadership team. Usually, your leadership team radiates down a culture and and, you know, when you've got, you know, nefarious leaders that kind of down and bad things, and I've had the experience of working in, let's say, varied cultures of companies, and I've seen the spectrum and the authenticity, the care for people in balance With the passion for our mission here is really healthy. It's healthy and and if that weren't the case, I wouldn't be here, and I'm glad to be a part of it, and one of many people that have the opportunity to lead against our vision. And it's it's fun, it's hard, but it's fun.
Mary Newville 59:22
Yeah, I think that's so well stated, all of that the care for people in balance with pursuit of our mission. And it's hard, but it's fun. That describes working at Arctic wolf really
Chelsea Lowman 59:34
well, yes, 100% Well, I just looked at the time, and an hour literally flew by. I cannot believe it. We have so many we have so many more questions. But before we get to the rapid fire, we do always make sure that we talk about wellness and well being, because it is important to us here at Arctic wolf so can. You just briefly let us know, like, what does well being look like to you? What does that mean? How do you prioritize your work? Life, balance, harmony, etc,
Speaker 1 1:00:11
well. And I'll try and be brief while I love the intensity of my work and it it challenges me and helps me grow and develop, and with a curious mind, it, I think increases my impact. I think family, friends, broader purpose in life is is actually more important. I think nobody is going to be on their deathbed saying, Oh, I wish I caught a couple more meetings and couple more of those things at the end of the day, it's about, you know, our family, our friends, the world, trying to kind of create an a positive impact. And so in order to do that, we as individuals have got to balance our time, and we have to find balance and intensity. So there are times when I have to say to myself, Chris, calm down. It's going to be okay, you know, and but I just care really passionately about realizing our vision and I operate it's getting along. Sorry, it I care about moving with haste. The reason is, I lost my mother at a young age, and so I, I operate with this notion that, just in general, my metronome is we don't have a lot of time. And so I kind of operate with haste, and I put, you know, pressure to to achieve and not just get it done, get it done, right? So that's a challenge I have for myself, is finding that balance, and that's in attitude. That's like, for example, last last weekend, my wife and I talked and I said, Man, it's been a it's been a really busy week. I need to, like, vacate the premises and have a different context. So we, I live in Scottsdale, Arizona. We drove up through the forest to Flagstaff. Spent the night at a 70s style hotel with a disco ball in the room. Great time. And then we drove down a different way, through the forest, back down the next day, and we got home and we said, Did we just leave on our holiday yesterday? And just that reset, the chance to get away, understand that, like, if you don't get out of the frame in the context of your work, it's always right next to you. You can't get away and gain perspective and just, you know, have a healthy balance. And I've mentioned I have three daughters, my my family is my priority over my work every day of the week, and always will be. But for me, I tend to lean in on work, and the challenge is to kind of lean out and find that balance. And as a leader, part of my job is to look at each of my team members and look for signs of overheating, of balance, and try and step in and coach and guide where I can and with the tools of like, can other people step in? Do you need a break? Or, you know, are you at the right balance? Part of my job is to make sure that the team that I lead and the teams that I work alongside, that we're all in that same it's not about me having a balance. It's about the pack having a balance, because if I'm green and other people are running red hot as a team, we're not going to achieve the outcomes we need. Our our quote, unquote, enemy or competitor needs to be on the outside of this business as an organization. We have to operate like one body and work together to the health of the whole and not create dumps in the process. So that's a bit about that.
Chelsea Lowman 1:03:49
Wow, snippet and post it.
Mary Newville 1:03:52
Oh, that's quotable.
Chelsea Lowman 1:03:54
Work together really well, yeah. Because if, like you said, you know, if you have this incredible balance, but no one else on your team does. Your team is not balanced. So Wow. Okay, I don't want to end the conversation, but we must. Unfortunately, we know we're a very important person, so we know you probably have a lot to get to after this, so we just have our final questions, our rapid fire, meant to be first thing that comes to your mind, quick answer. So we'll start those what is the best concert of your life? Coldplay. Jealous, okay? Favorite word my wife
Speaker 1 1:04:34
would say, Taylor Swift. But yeah,
Chelsea Lowman 1:04:39
your favorite word, why? Oh, I,
Speaker 1 1:04:42
I am curious, and I always want to understand layers deeper. So why is a go to for me,
Speaker 2 1:04:51
that's a good one. I love that a place on your bucket list. Oh. Uh,
Speaker 1 1:05:02
I love escaping humanity and being in the outdoors. And I'm gonna say I would love one day to go to Prudhoe Bay. Prudhoe Bay is in northernmost, or near Northern, most place in Alaska. I've spent some time in Alaska, and I would love to adventure way, way up north and see some of the extreme climate and how people live in that.
Chelsea Lowman 1:05:36
Okay, what's something that people often get wrong about you? I
Speaker 1 1:05:39
think people that don't know me or work much with me think I am stiff and serious and because often like it's meeting to meeting to meeting, and time matters, and so I am straight into the details, and there isn't a lot of fun. So I have in my career had people say you're super intense and you're super serious, but the truth is, and you know this because we talked about it earlier, is that, you know, I know how to have fun. I just sometimes it's not the context for it. So they can get that wrong,
Chelsea Lowman 1:06:13
right, right? Well, and I've never even been in a meeting with you, but I think even just your title alone sometimes gives an image of, like, a certain type of person, you know, so to your
Speaker 1 1:06:25
person, though, the reality is just another person.
Mary Newville 1:06:29
I mean, I will say I did not expect how fun and funny and light hearted and interesting this conversation would be today.
Chelsea Lowman 1:06:38
Yeah, I thought it was like, so technical. So, yeah, I don't know. So this has been fun. Okay, last question, give us a snapshot of an ordinary and an ordinary moment in your life that brings you joy.
Speaker 1 1:06:53
I, I love user experience, UI. It's super nerdy, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna break all the things that you just said about me, but I love meetings that involve UI, because to me, that's where the rubber meets the road, where the value is expressed to customers. So I really that just working on UI to the to the dissatisfaction of some of my colleagues is like, oh, Chris is in the UI now. Have thoughts and ideas. I think that would be one I I'm a grandfather. I love watching my granddaughter growing up and all the first things she said, Grandpa for the first time this week. I love, I love phone calls with my my my children and family and sharing life. But I also love just simple things, like, we have a challenge and and we need to solve a problem. I liken my role to like, I'm the skipper on a big ship. We see an iceberg. If we as a team, a leadership team, can, like, navigate around that and small what the customer needs without creating, you know, undue problems that brings me a lot of of impact, and for all of us, I mean, what brings, what could bring you more joy than to be like the Internet police, like we are helping protect people, and it's so easy to explain, like, what a noble cause, right?
Chelsea Lowman 1:08:22
Yeah, so true, amazing. Well, you survived. Those are, those are our last questions.
Mary Newville 1:08:30
Yes, we have so much more. Thank you. Is so much. I know you talked about how you go meeting the meeting and you just gotta dive in and be so serious. We so appreciate you taking time early this morning to just let us and the greater pack get to know who is Chris Kraft, the leader of our product org, and what drives you and how you think. I think everyone who listens to this is going to be so much better for it, so many good nuggets and just it was really a pleasure to get to know you better. So thank you so much for being here today, Chris.
Speaker 1 1:09:01
You bet my pleasure. And anyone who hasn't met me, and if we're in meetings, if you want to start off that conversation with your favorite game as an icebreaker, you'll hook me right away, and I'll want to talk to you about it.
Chelsea Lowman 1:09:14
Okay, yeah, that's such a good idea. Okay, I hope the pack is listening.
Mary Newville 1:09:19
Yeah, some good intel for people that want to like find their way to Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:09:24
wonderful. Thank you ladies for your turn. They really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.
Mary Newville 1:09:30
So much. Thank you, Chris. Take care. Bye.
Chelsea Lowman 1:09:33
Wow. What a great conversation. I know we always sound like a broken record, but this one, I truly felt like we did not have enough time. Like other episodes, it's like, oh, we could have talked for more hours because we could, but this one like we literally ran out of time. We didn't even get to half our questions
Mary Newville 1:09:52
I know, and I seriously had so many other things that I like needed to know. Literally. Now. Out. Hopefully, if you listen, you have the little easter egg of, like, how to break the ice real quick and bond. If I really, you know, I can finish this conversation. I'll just start with like, oh, I tried. I can't remember the names, but I'll re listen. I am definitely buying all those games. They sounded fun. They did,
Chelsea Lowman 1:10:17
although, when he the very last one, he was describing the two person collaborative one I was so excited about. I was like, Oh, this sounds so unique and interesting. And then he said it was about flying a plane and having plane issues. And I was like, I'm out. There's no way, and I'm flying tonight. And he mentioned flying, like so many times you mentioned that. And then he was like, you know, a four, a 747, it's all about the pilot. I'm like, can we please stop talking about flying right now? I'm gonna have a panic attack, but it's okay. I'm gonna have a safe flight tonight, and it's gonna
Mary Newville 1:10:52
be a very safe flight. Okay, that's funny. You say that because I don't like, I collaborative games, usually because I want to win. I'm like, I don't want to play with you. I want to play against you,
Chelsea Lowman 1:11:03
which is so funny, because I feel like that's not your brand. Like people that know you are like, Oh, Mary's like, and you are these things, but like sunshine and collaborative and like all these things, but Mary, she gets so feisty and she is competitive, like she Yeah, with her. We've done our like, she gets serious. She really, okay, um, well, anyway, that was a great combo. I'm excited for the pack to listen and and the public. Okay, it's August, like we said at the beginning. So if you are a pack member, in some select offices, we're doing our annual summer madness cornhole tournament. So happy cornhole to those of you playing right now. Good luck. And just a reminder, we have our annual run with the pack 5k coming up in September, so you're still able to sign up, depending on when this comes out, the registration for T shirts might have closed, but you can still sign up to do the run up until the day of the run. So that's September 18, and most of our offices and our remote pack can run whenever. And this year, the beneficiary of our run is Helen's pink sky foundation. So you can find more info on the run on confluence,
Mary Newville 1:12:23
and if you're not part of the pack, we would love to have you come join us on our mission to end cyber risk. Like Chris said, it's a amazing organization full of amazing people. It's hard, but that's what makes it so much fun, as we solve problems and work with the best people to to move towards that mission, but you can find more about our open jobs at Arctic wolf.com backslash careers. And we hope you all have a great end to your summer if you're in the northern hemisphere, Northwestern hemisphere, and we will talk to you in September.
Chelsea Lowman 1:13:01
Yes, very exciting episode coming up in September, our two year anniversary. So
Mary Newville 1:13:08
beautiful. Yes, it's going to be a fun one, so for sure.
Chelsea Lowman 1:13:13
Subscribe. Okay, bye, everyone. Bye.
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