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Intersectional feminist conversations about doing work and life differently. Hosts Becky Mollenkamp and Faith Clarke talk with entrepreneurs, authors, and thinkers about capacity, care, bias, and burnout. We name the systems we're taught to ignore, and imagine what's possible when we stop performing and start being honest.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:16)
Welcome to Feminist Founders. Well, that's
Faith Clarke (00:19)
Isn't your name's bottomers?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:22)
what we're here to talk about today because actually welcome to Yes and Otherwise with me, Becky Mollenkamp, and my partner in this project.
Faith Clarke (00:31)
Faith Clark. Trying to get some hydration.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:34)
No, you're
fine. we for what two years, a year and a half have been doing Feminist Founders Together. And it went, I don't know, a couple of years probably before that, before you came on board as well. And we have decided to make a big change, not just with the name, but kind of our approach, branding, everything. It's a new look and a new season for what we're doing. and I think we're just gonna talk a little bit about why.
what to expect, what'll be different, and what we hope that it will mean for you all as well as for us. So Faith, I don't know where you want to start, but I think maybe a good place is kind of the why we're making a change. Does that feel like a good place to start? Okay.
Faith Clarke (01:16)
Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:18)
And you and I have been having conversations all along about how we work together, what we want to do, what feels right, what doesn't.
I
hope that we can in some way serve as a model for people on what it can look like to be in partnership and to have challenging conversations and to evolve and grow together and all of those things. And we've been sort of finding our footing, I feel like, for the last year and a half, experimenting,
Faith Clarke (01:42)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:42)
throwing things out, trying different things, and sort of each time I think kind of learning something from it in that I don't know if that's quite it. I don't know if that's quite it. And so the most recent sort of
reckoning conversation of like where do we want to go. I know that I had mentioned that I the thing I miss, so my background is journalism. And I really miss being part of media. And I think I'm really realizing that that I love media. And when I say media, I mean storytelling probably more than anything. I miss storytelling, but not for some corporate over overlord and not for some
ends of just trying to sell something, but just telling really important stories. And
Faith Clarke (02:26)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:26)
I think for a while we were trying to figure out how do we make feminist founders be both community and like something that we can throw our coaching services into and maybe combined coaching services. And I think where we kind of landed was like maybe we don't need that part. Maybe we don't have to try to inject our coaching into this. Maybe it could just be about we both love telling stories. We both love
talking about the things that are getting lost in the margins and making sure that there's a place to shine the light on those. And what if that's like enough? And what if that's a great endeavor and something we both enjoy. So I'm
Faith Clarke (02:59)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:00)
curious what your thoughts are on what I've s shared so far.
Faith Clarke (03:03)
Well, you know, part of what I was thinking about is that part our encouragement to everybody who listens is to recognize the weight of our experience as being on the shoulders of the system. Like we're in a society where we are made to hold the responsibility for so much that isn't ours to hold, that should be in our environment. And I think this is one of them. The f the many conversations we've had.
We've also been trying to figure out how should we be as if the external environment is static. Meanwhile,
All the things are hitting the fan everywhere, everything is moving all over the place. And so I think we've had some really good ideas about how we want to be, but then there is the real question of how do we want to be in this environment that feels the way it feels, and centering the human story just feels life-giving in the middle of all of these moving and changing parts, and centering how.
humans in their human story are engaging with these toxic system and the toxic environments and repurposing them and alchemizing them and creating something that's really nourishing and generative for this world that we're creating moving forward. And so yeah, there are other things that are open and we can have those conversations. Do we want to coach in this world right now? Maybe, maybe not. But
But however we do it, the stories must be elevated. And so this feels like a really, really great place. And I think also for me, another why for some of the changes that we have is that we've we've had some fantastic conversations with people.
And we even forget them. I don't know about you. I even will forget them. And so the way we're reorganizing ourselves now helps us to keep our own stories in mind. This the conversations we've had, the things we've learned, and offer it back to people in our community, our subscribers, to say, hey, we have this great story this month.
But it's like that other great story that we had two years ago and you know last fall and you want to kind of take them in together and it allows us to kind of curate these story bundles and I'm looking forward to that.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:29)
Yeah, a couple of things you said. The one that's life giving, and I think part of where I don't I'm sure maybe you as well, because you're you're sharing your stories in your own Substack, which we can link to what's it called? Faiths.
Faith Clarke (05:42)
faith faith with life.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:44)
Faith with life, that you are you've moved and you're now living in Jamaica and you're sharing a lot of that stuff there. So we may or may not get into some of that here, but you can obviously go find those stories from Faith about that. And so you're going through a big transformation with your life right now and sort of how you are coping or dealing with the world as it is. And I've also been experiencing a lot of like drain emotionally, physically, all of it.
And that life giving piece is so valuable because I think we both were kind of looking at the places where things were feeling like we've talked about, like the stickiness, the tension, the where why are we not doing this thing we said we would do or why is it not why isn't it selling? Why aren't we excited to talk about it or whatever it is? And I think we've just really got to place of like, okay, so what's life giving? And I think the place we both feel that life givingness is around the storytelling and
When we get to have incredible conversations with incredible people. And then you also mentioned curation, which I think is so valuable because you're right. And and I think so many people can probably relate to this. How many of us are out there creating so much content for feed machines and whatever? And then it just sort of goes away, right? And it's like how I love the idea of how are these stories in conver the conversations in conversation with each other. And we're gonna
Faith Clarke (07:00)
Right.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:00)
be doing more exploration around that through curation.
both
on the website, and I would really encourage you to check out the new website, yesandotherwise.com, so that you can go and see the way we're presenting information and as we continue to build it out, the way you can search and find topics that are of interest to you. You can search leadership and find the stories we've done around that. You know, you could search for DEI and see what we've done around that. And then also see how these stories are in conversation with each other. And we will be adding more sort of
starter packs or whatever, as you said, like where it's like if you want to know more about this topic, here's like the five key conversations you need to listen to. And I'm really excited about that. So the website will look like that. And then also the newsletter component, which we'll be shifting where the focus isn't where it's not going to be just here's our latest conversation and kind of leaving it at that.
You'll probably hear from us a little less, but when you do, it's gonna be more meaty in that we're gonna talk about the store the conversations we've been having and draw some of those lines for you on how they relate to other things so that if you've come in late, you can go back and experience those or you can dive deep if you're the person like me and Faith, I think, both who love to dive deep. We don't wanna just sit on the surface. And so I'm excited about those possibilities there.
Faith Clarke (08:15)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:18)
And
then also for those of for those folks who are willing and able to support on a financial level, because in the end, we are putting labor towards this. It's a labor of love, as we've said, but that doesn't negate that it is labor. And so for people who are able and interested in supporting that labor, we will continue to have a paid option. And that paid option will give you something extra every month.
One, it gives you just that knowledge that you are using that privilege that you have, that financial privilege, whatever other privileges that you have that allow you to be able to afford a small amount of money every month, that you're using that to support the labor that you're of that you're enjoying, these stories that you're getting to hear that you will not be hearing elsewhere. And we will be giving you something every month to say thank you for that additional support. And we will make sure that wherever you're
consuming
this content, whether that's YouTube, the podcast feed or Substack, that you will have the information on how to support us in this new endeavor. And if you're already a paid subscriber there, a paid supporter, we thank you and you will be automatically be getting the new resources we share. But we would encourage other folks to consider that, to consider becoming a paid supporter, a patron, if you will. And the first month, so at the end of each month, we're going to reflect on the conversations that we've been having that month. But as you said, Faith,
how they relate to other conversations we've had, and then provide you with some sort of resource, what resource, whether that's a bonus conversation between us and some of those reflections and some of that deeper dive into it and and how it might apply to you as a business owner andor just as a person. Or it could look like a worksheet or a workbook or many other things it could be. We don't even know what they might all be yet. And so do you mind talking a little bit then, Faith, about what they can expect for this first month, which we are, even though we're
Introducing this at the end of the month, we wanted to say thank you for anyone who does choose to upgrade and also to thank all of those who have stuck around over all of this time of us sort of figuring things out, who are already and have been paid subscribers, paid patrons. We want to reward you or say thank you with something now. And then next month will be when we really kick in and you'll start to notice a big difference in the content. But what are we what's this collective exhale, the first thing that we're going to be giving to our supporters?
Faith Clarke (10:42)
I hate to leave everybody on a cliffhanger with that. Yeah. But I I am curious about why we changed the name first. And I think
Becky Mollenkamp (10:51)
Ooh, you know, that's such a great question.
Faith Clarke (10:54)
and I think that there is something that connects that to the collective exhale. So we'll get right there. But I I you know I
I love something that feels like it has a little bit of whimsy, that there's a story inside of it for the title, that you can make up what you want from it, but that also functions as a
Maybe as a as a diagnostic or not quite so diagnostic, as a guide for our own thinking and processing. And part of the beauty of the yes and is just this continued extension of ideas. It's the it's the basis for improv, like yes and, and then we add something else that doesn't seem directly connected. And so I know Becky, I I want to switch to you to talk.
about maybe feminist founders and and why not feminist founders but I'm kind of just riffing into how for me the quality of the conversations and stories that we'll be having will will be even more
reflective and expansive because what we're inviting ourselves into is seeing more broadly. So many of the issues that we face in society right now is about reduction and binary thinking and kind of fitting things into their boxes. And what we're saying is how do we create outside the box, how do we create new boxes? How do we expand the circles of concern so that we all fit in regardless of our bodies and identities? And then otherwise can be
almost anything otherwise is just this additional like if not yes and then what or it could be the further expansion and so for me it's this invitation in every conversation to build this world out
Becky Mollenkamp (12:51)
Yeah, which in literally in every conversation, because part of the new rhythm and flow of the conversations we're having with people does end with us asking them their their yes, their and and their otherwise. And it's been fun. We've done a few because we're just starting this. And so you may have already, I mean, you've probably already heard a couple of the episodes that are now sort of under this new languaging and noticed that. And we'll be continuing that. And it's been fun to see how people interpret it because, like you said, it's so open with by design.
Faith Clarke (13:17)
Right.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:18)
And why not
feminist founders? I have for quite a long time, even honestly, when you came on, and I think I've had I've brought this up more than once. Yes, that I that I've
Faith Clarke (13:25)
So many times. So many times.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:27)
been uncomfortable with the name for a while. In the beginning of things, I I was feeling this like, I'm gonna reclaim the word feminist, and we need to bring it like who cares about the ways it's made people feel excluded. I wanna like be part of the change that makes it feel more inclusive. And that's a that's a lovely thing.
Concept. And yet it does just make some people feel excluded for with good reason, right? Like there are many, and for anyone who hasn't done home much studying around for second wave feminism, it has historically been exclusive, excluding of non-white folks, right? So anyone who wasn't a white woman. It was about proximity to power, right? And like we're gonna start with those closest to that power.
And there was always this kind of wait your turn mentality, sometimes explicitly, sometimes more subtly, of yeah, yes, Ann, we'll get to you, but first, right? Let's let's work where we can make the biggest change. But what that has often done then is excluded folks who weren't white women and made them feel not only excluded, but I mean rightfully harmed.
By this idea of feminism. Even though, in my belief system, if it isn't intersectional, it's not feminist. And there are many people who agree with that. And I've tried using the words intersectional feminist, and I still identify that way. And I think you do as well, Faith. And there is an acknowledgement that just by using that term feminist founders, we are attracting a certain kind of person. And
likely repelling many people for whom we want to be a resource, for whom we want to include, like who we want to include in our conversations, the the stories that we most want to tell. And so as much as like I love the idea of reclaiming feminist, also I want to make sure that that's not the thing that's keeping people from finding these incredible conversations we're having or being willing to be a part of these incredible conversations we're having. And and again with good reason. So there's not as if I'm
Faulting or blaming anyone other than the people who have created this legacy around this word. So that is why not that term. And then we were going back and forth on some words. And I think eventually we just kind of got to otherwise and really liked that. And it's a slightly more common word. There's some other things out there that are using otherwise in various ways. So we wanted to think about how do we make it a little more unique and a little more us. And you were the one who brought the yes and.
Cause we were kind of going back and forth, and what else could there be? And I love the yes and because so many, so many
Faith Clarke (16:02)
So many options. We were so many options.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:06)
if you could see. But I love the idea because we how often in our conversations do we give a yes and to each other? It's like, yes, and because we're not, we don't like to do butts as much as we can. We avoid the butts. Because it's an and,
Faith Clarke (16:16)
We're not gonna do butt. It's like yeah, let's just yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:19)
yes, and can this be true? And can we hold space for this? And we talk about that so much that it just felt so perfect and
I love that it is open for interpretation. To me, the otherwise kind of felt like it has the other, it has whys. I love both of those words on their own. I also love that when they come together, it can kind of feel like the what if or the what else or the, you know, who aren't we talking about here? And and that sort of felt like it was speaking to what are the stories that are getting lost in the margins that aren't being told. and so yeah, that you're I love that we thank you. I rushed ahead. Everybody's
Faith Clarke (16:51)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:52)
waiting on the cliffhanger and now they're like, give it to us. But
That is important and part of what this is about. And so the rebrand, we've kind of put the cart before the horse a little bit. We're telling you about this after having released a couple of episodes under the new branding. but we were like, we're having the conversations. Let's just make them part of this new thing and then we'll tell people. So here we are.
Faith Clarke (17:12)
And I think reclaiming the word feminist is a great example of the yes and otherwise. You know, and so we can be in the process of that. And for ourselves, you know, as you know, identity-wise, for me, first of all, I was not a humanities person, I was a straight engineering science nerd. And so feminist for me was what I made it. as a, you know, and I'm also.
from Jamaica and some of you know so feminism kind of included black feminism much more solidly. But I it's so important that we all don't get stuck on
the way other people have framed things. And so these conversations and these stories that we're telling is like how are you framing it? And how are we how how am I framing it? And then how together do we have a shared story around this idea that you framed one way and I framed another way? And I think that's that process, that's what's essential in our storytelling.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:17)
Yeah,
I agree. And our sub headline or the, you know, tagline on the website is changing the narrative one stor one conversation at a time. And I mean, I think that's ultimately what we were wanting to do before. And honestly, I felt like capitalism for me was kind of getting in the way of that in many ways, of just like, okay, but also how it was the yes and of yes, how do we tell stories? And how do we like make, you know, try to make an offer that that will sell? And I just want to have that freedom to say.
And I, and this is where the support comes back in, the freedom
Faith Clarke (18:48)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:49)
to say we don't have to be doing that because we're doing something that's important. I think some of this is my own internal battle I've had for a long time that you also know about of just like I have undervalued for myself storytelling and community building as skills and things that deserve to be compensated, right? And as labor that deserves to be compensated because it comes so naturally, because it's something I love.
I think I have done that thing that so many people do where if we love it and we're good at it, we don't think there's value to it. And that's just not true. And so part of this is like, I want to give myself that lesson and freedom to say, no, these are things that are valuable. What faith and I do is valuable just through the holding space for these conversations, putting them out in a way that people can receive them and learn and grow from them. And that there will be enough people who also see value in that.
And those who can will help to say, yeah, I want to support this work because this work matters. And that feels really good to me. Instead of trying to figure out how do I force something else into it to prove value, can the work just be the value? And and I want to hold on to that belief.
Faith Clarke (20:02)
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And I think that this releasing of invisible labor goes nicely into what we're talking about this month, which is we called it the collective exhale. And it's the permission slip to let go of all the stuff and to to design our engagement as leaders in ways that just
feel yummy and delightful but even before we get to yummy and delightful stops feeling icky and and awful and so we go through a few we go through a few practices
On how to release and how to not be the person that's holding it all. There's an analogy, Becky, that we use in one of the conversations. How to not be the lead bird all the time, the one in the front in the headwind carrying the whole thing. And you know, to to to stop feeling shame and
like we have no value when we have to take a break and be the bird at the back and somebody else comes in as if these birds have have these issues. They just know that they yeah, you can't have one all the time. But no, we think that to prove ourselves we need to, you know, broad back and whatever. And yeah, so I think that the collective exhale is gonna be a short audio with me and Becky with some deeper resources that will invite you into practices of continued releasing so that in your day
to day work the logic of extraction that causes you to do th all the things for everyone that it's so invisible it's so insidious you just it's so
automatic and in a recent i think it was nicole actually i was in podcast with nicole who was in our subscriber community and
Becky Mollenkamp (21:51)
Hav Havelka?
Faith Clarke (21:53)
yes a velka and i mentioned just how we're talking about the people who are checking to see if
people feel okay after a meeting. We're talking about the people who are making sure that the gluten-free options are available at the next, you know, all staff gathering. We're talking about, you know, that there are just many of us are just the people who are looking for cracks in the system. And they're not in our job description. They're not things that we're being rewarded for. It's not something you're additionally compensated for. And you won't be promoted based on those things.
But you do it anyway, and the system thrives because you do it. And so we want to invite a different kind of being. And so the collective exhale is a communal practice of releasing.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:44)
Well, and I just had a it's so funny because I just had a conversation yesterday for a podcast, Andrea Jones, it's mindful marketing, it'll be coming out shortly. And we were talking about the emotional labor too, and how that contributes to burnout and how so often when we
Faith Clarke (22:57)
Absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:58)
talk about like labor, we're only thinking about the physical things we're doing, like ordering the meals or whatever. And those are valuable things and also things that lead to it. And it's also just the holding of the weight of
At that same time, I'm remembering the six other things that I have to do, or the world is heavy right now, and I'm sit that's
Faith Clarke (23:15)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:16)
sitting on my shoulders, or my mom is aging and I'm worried about her, or just all of the emotional things that we often carry. And most especially, I think people who are socialized as women are sort of conditioned to carry a lot of the emotional weight of their relationships, of their work, of everything, carrying that weight of that. And then that.
That's another piece of that like weight that we just carry around. And I just love, I love the conversation around a collective exhale. And I think the timing is perfect because I feel like that's a part of what this whole change is about for both of
Faith Clarke (23:52)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:53)
us, right? And so we're excited to share that conversation with those of you who want to be our supporters, who want to support this work on a financial level, because you're able to do that and you understand that, yes, conversations that don't
Aren't had elsewhere, like the conversation that we had with Mariah Brewer about about period care and why period leave needs to be happening more and why how do we approach our periods, this thing that women experience for decades in a way that actually looks like collective care instead of sh basically the the thing we've always done, which is shipping you off to this island to be alone, right? And don't never talk about it, never let us see it, let us never let us know.
Or the beaut I just loved our conversation. It's a current one on the website as our feature is with Dr. Sarah Webb about colorism and just all these like very interesting small ways that this stuff can show up and and the things that each of us, regardless of our own skin tone, our own color, and how we interact with those things. These are not the stories that you're hearing most places. Yes. Yes.
Faith Clarke (24:53)
Even the conversation about hair. I think that was a fantastic conversation. Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:58)
Yeah.
So and we're so excited to be having more of these conversations. So you'll be getting those. And if you want to be able to support the work and go deeper with the work in a way that you won't if you're not able to do the financial support, but if you're able it's not a lot of money, so check it out. We'll put the information. We'd love to have that support. The first one will be coming out very shortly for all of the paid subscribers because it's for August. And then we'll be creating something new for September for those people. And
The conversations are already starting under Yeses and Otherwise. We just mentioned a couple of them that are out now. And we have more that will be coming. And so at least a couple times a month you'll be getting new conversations. And those who are paying will also get this opportunity for some deeper exploration around the topics and and around this kind of work. Anything else, Faith, that we wanna say?
Faith Clarke (25:50)
I I will just wrap with this just as a invitation to becoming a paid subscriber, that we don't change if we don't practice. And so knowledge doesn't move the needle. It's it's you know, and we can get really almost arrogant. I've read this book, I've read that book, I've done this course, I know this thing.
But how do we how does it become a part of our autopilot? That's the thing. And so part of what we will be doing in these resources is offering you a way to practice so that you can build this these reflexes and be automatic, you know, when the stuff hits the fan out in the work world or in the family world or wherever. So if you are interested in resources and cannot be a paid subscriber, just let us know because we we want
you to practice, but for everybody, anybody else who is able, offer, be a paid subscriber so that we can get these resources in more people's hands.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:53)
I love that. Thank you, Faith. That's right. and we will have a way for you to reach out to us if you are saying, I love what you're doing, and I wish I had the re means to support. I don't right now, but I don't want to miss out because I am interested in deepening this work. And if you're listening, if you're someone who knows they have the means and are sitting on the fence, please consider. Because, like Faith said, that's what allows us to to do this. And that is what using our privilege looks like. I try to do this in all the places where I can too. It's like
Where I have that privilege, can I use that to make sure that those who have less can also have access to things. So we're excited for this new journey and we'll see where it takes us. And we'll be back again soon with another amazing conversation with an incredible thinker who's doing work that is going under recognized. And also for those who are paid subscribers, we will be back with a great conversation this month about the collective exhale and then next month with something else. So thank you.